C4 and S4 type ship

[Woof1701]

Hey there,

Among the mass produced freighters and tankers like the C2, C3, T2, T3, Liberty, Victory ships etc. was also a type known as C4. Although by far not as common as the Liberties and Victories, it might make a nice addition :) Anyone working on that? IABL perhaps?

http://www.usmm.org/c4ships.html

Then there were the S4 ships, but I can't seem to find out much about them. The only thing I know is, that the S4 hull design was also used to build the Casablanca-Class escort carriers. Apart from that ...

[U49]

That would be very interesting :hmm:!

More variance in the ship models always provides more feeling of realism.
:up:

[lutzow]

Same here:up: I love sunk big ships:up:

[donw]

Same here:up: I love sunk big ships:up:

I love UNsunk big ships, so I can sink them!! ;)

[bigboywooly]

S4
Not heard of that one

There was a C1 too

http://www.usmm.org/c1ships.html

And Fort ships
And Oceans
And Parks

http://fortships.tripod.com/

The list goes on

Still plenty to keep builders busy

Edit
Mystery of the S4 ship


Kaiser built CVEs in the 1943 article are listed as modified S4 hulls. There is no such thing as an S4 hull. They were built on heavily modified P1 hulls which was smallest of the four sizes of, what the US Maritime Commission classed as "standard" pre-war transport designs. The confusion comes from MarCom's designation of S4-S2-BB3 assigned to the Kaiser CVEs. Deciphering contemporary Maritime Commission parlance, all the S4 meant was it was the 4th time it was asked to build a "Special" military type for one of the services - S, in the S4 meant Special Military Type, the 4 meant 4th special ship type built by them. The center portion of the S4-S2-BB3 designation connotes length of final design. It asks two things: 1) Was the length modified, and if so 2) how long is it now? And since the length of the P1 hull was indeed lengthened to accommodate a minimum required length for a flight deck, the S in S2 answers "yes", it was modified, and 2 means it was lengthened to within the range of our standard types with a 2 suffix - ie C-2, P-2, etc. Lastly, the final subset in the S4-S2-BB3 connotes on whose request are we building these ships for, and which iteration of preliminary designs actually got built. The BB, in BB3, was "MarCom speak" for they received the task by direct order of the President on 08JUN42. FDR's files were arranged such that anything warship related had a BB prefix. The 3, in BB3, indicates that the Chief of Preliminary Design at MarCom, Ivan J. Wanless, had two prior versions of his design before getting approval to turn it over to a design agent who would then take his preliminary design and convert that into detailed working plans. Example: His first design was called BB1, second BB2, and so on. It's merely a tracking device used by Naval Architects in the course of preliminary design. In other words, all S4-S2-BB3 is/was/will ever be is a file name. Kaiser CVEs are built on P1 hulls - albeit heavily modified. Using the S4-S2-BB3 designation is tantamount to calling what is essentially a "design name" and elevating it to a "hull form", which it is not at all.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Ships/Archive09

[Sailor Steve]

Then there were the S4 ships, but I can't seem to find out much about them. The only thing I know is, that the S4 hull design was also used to build the Casablanca-Class escort carriers. Apart from that ...
A little bit...
http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/ships/ships-mc.html

Ooh! I just stumbled on this site I had not seen before! It doesn't cover S4 types, but it does give some interesting information:
http://iancoombe.tripod.com/id50.html

Wiki lists both escort carriers and transports, but of course doesn't provide any useful information.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Shipbuilding_program

Another good one I just found! It only lists the carriers, but states that 'S' stands for 'Special Types'; but it has a lot of cool info, including specs and drawings of the 'R' type refrigeration vessels.
http://drawings.us-maritime-commission.de/drawingmain.htm

On the other hand, that was all I could find in the time I have.

[sparkomatic]

Didnt the US try making some ships out of concrete?

[sparkomatic]

oh yeah, just found a whole web page dedicated to them...McCloskey Ships

[Woof1701]

@BBW and Sailor Steve

Thanks for digging up that info. Explains a lot.
About the C1. I had asked about this one a few months ago and I believe IABL has something similar looking in his merchant mod. But I'm not sure. :)

[Sledgehammer427]

Didnt the US try making some ships out of concrete?

yup, theres one right offa cape may...its all green though, and you need a pair of binoculars.

if you ever manage to hit the east coast from japan.

[Madox58]

There were actually alot of Concrete ships done.
Not sure how many sailed and where or when though.
One of the BEST ideas?
A FROZEN ship!!!
Seems up in Canada area they tried freezeing saw dust into
water to create a carrier?
I'll leave the details to Mush.
I KNOW he has the answers!!!
:rotfl:

[KeptinCranky]

The whole Pycrete supercarrier thing :D cool idea that was...

[Sledgehammer427]

yeah i remember that, the brits thought about putting wood and other things into an iceberg, top speed, 7 knots, total airplane capacity...150:o

that would be fun to model...besides, bernard needs more ice cubez!:hmm:
if only i could...

you could get a 12.5 million ton patrol....

[iambecomelife]

Hey there,

Among the mass produced freighters and tankers like the C2, C3, T2, T3, Liberty, Victory ships etc. was also a type known as C4. Although by far not as common as the Liberties and Victories, it might make a nice addition :) Anyone working on that? IABL perhaps?

http://www.usmm.org/c4ships.html

Then there were the S4 ships, but I can't seem to find out much about them. The only thing I know is, that the S4 hull design was also used to build the Casablanca-Class escort carriers. Apart from that ...

Thanks for the link. :up: It's good to see a picture of a C-4 again. I last saw one in a book with a section on the "Omar Bundy". She had been sold to a civilian company after the war and disappeared at sea (circa 1980 I think).

I am working on two medium-large engines aft freighters superficially similar to the C-4. However, they are both old-fashioned and not based on mass produced ships. One is about 5,000 GRT and the other is 8,500 GRT.

The less well known mass produced ships are quite interesting. I think that the C-1 and C-4 were both much better looking than the Liberty Ship, and if I'm not mistaken they had better performance, too.

[Woof1701]

My pleasure,
Glad you like the link.
BTW: do you have a C1 in your Merchant Mod :)

[iambecomelife]

My pleasure,
Glad you like the link.
BTW: do you have a C1 in your Merchant Mod :)

I love the C-1 to death but I decided against it. I already had two modern composite deckhouse ships and adding three would seem excessive. I might make one as a separate mod.
Below is one of the large freighters designed to represent ships like the C-3. It is by no means an exact copy but it has several modern stylistic features, such as lots of kingposts, a slanted bow, short funnel, and shrouding on the deckhouse (designed to give a ship an aerodynamic, "modern" feel". Although it is shown in Japanese colors it will also serve all of the U.S. companies that had large modern freighters - Lykes, American Export, Alcoa, and Moore-McCormack.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d54/iambecomelife/Mit1.jpg

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h42000/h42098.jpg

[fright52]

Woof - My dad shipped out of Richmond CA on board the AP-130 G.O. Squier troop transport ship which was a C4-S-A1 type hull ship. Displacement ranged from 9,900 to 17,250 tons with a maximum speed of 17 knots. I'm amazed that there are no model kits for a WWll troop transport ship to be found. I guess everyone thinks our troops were just 'beamed' overseas to win the war! :k_confused:

[Aktungbby]

Apparently not indeed! The general Squier class transpot of which 15 were built https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_G._O._Squier-class_transport (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_G._O._Squier-class_transport) AND a MODEL: SB222 GENERAL GEORGE SQUIER (APA-130) $19.00 http://www.alnavco.com/2400SBWW2.asp (http://www.alnavco.com/2400SBWW2.asp)

[geosub1978]

We have C4 in SH3! It is the Community Units pack!


[UnitClass]
ClassName=C4Cargo
UnitType=102
AppearanceDate=19400101
DisappearanceDate=19470101
DisplayName=Large Cargo

[Unit 1]
Name=Large Cargo
DOC=19400101
DOD=19470101

https://s23.postimg.org/kl3vi3ah7/NKC4.jpg

[Sailor Steve]

We have C4 in SH3!
No, we don't. Call it anything you like, but that ship is not remotely like a C-4.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a325/SailorSteve/USS_General_W__M__Black_AP-134_zps64hmedsj.jpg (http://s14.photobucket.com/user/SailorSteve/media/USS_General_W__M__Black_AP-134_zps64hmedsj.jpg.html)

[iambecomelife]

Interesting side note: I finally found a photo online of the C4 "Omar Bundy" I was referring to back in 2007. The vessel was heavily reconstructed after WWII and looked nothing like the original C4 Cargo. As "Poet" she sailed from Delaware in October 1980 & went missing in a storm (33 men lost). Aside from "El Faro" sinking I think this is the only recent United States ship disaster with no survivors.

http://www.shipspotting.com/photos/middle/3/9/9/1304993.jpg

[LGN1]

Hi Iambecomelife,

has the ship in post#16 ever been released (or a similar one)? I could not find anything like that in your MFM and I like it.

Best, LGN1

[iambecomelife]

Hi Iambecomelife,

has the ship in post#16 ever been released (or a similar one)? I could not find anything like that in your MFM and I like it.

Best, LGN1

It is a little similar to M15A in the Merchant Fleet Mod, although M15A is smaller. Basically, a modern cargo ship with a composite deckhouse and lots of cargo handling gear.

I'm not releasing the ship in post 16 because it has several errors. Most notably, the cranes are in the wrong position....when at sea, a merchant ship almost always had the cranes secured in either fully upright or fully down position. Leaving the crane booms at an angle would cause damage to the ship and cargo. This is a common error in cargo ship modeling (you see the same problem even on SH5 ships).

[radiator]

I could not find anything like that in your MFM and I like it.

I'm not releasing the ship in post 16 because it has several errors.

This ship was seen in the NYGM-mod, like many others, are not included in the final version of MFM :Kaleun_Wink:

[iambecomelife]

This ship was seen in the NYGM-mod, like many others, are not included in the final version of MFM :Kaleun_Wink:
Yes; I understand that they included several of my ships that I did not like, but in the end it's the super-modmaker's decision. I recommend that all mod makers who want to use my ships use the latest Merchant Fleet Mod - my ships from 2007 and earlier usually don't look as good.

[radiator]

Yes; I understand that they included several of my ships that I did not like, but in the end it's the super-modmaker's decision. I recommend that all mod makers who want to use my ships use the latest Merchant Fleet Mod - my ships from 2007 and earlier usually don't look as good.

I will not speak for everyone, but personally, I like some of the ships, which are not included in the final version of MFM. For example, I use this ship both the old whale factory ship in my game. That's like the ship, which is called "Pelagos", the German supply ship in Norway:

http://images.vfl.ru/ii/1483500257/f935859d/15536283.jpg

http://images.vfl.ru/ii/1483500629/d996129e/15536298.jpg

[gap]

It is a little similar to M15A in the Merchant Fleet Mod, although M15A is smaller. Basically, a modern cargo ship with a composite deckhouse and lots of cargo handling gear.

I'm not releasing the ship in post 16 because it has several errors. Most notably, the cranes are in the wrong position....when at sea, a merchant ship almost always had the cranes secured in either fully upright or fully down position. Leaving the crane booms at an angle would cause damage to the ship and cargo. This is a common error in cargo ship modeling (you see the same problem even on SH5 ships).

Hi IABL, I am a perfectionist too, but I wonder what induced you discarding those otherwise beautiful models rather than correcting the features that you didn't like and/or thought wrong :) :salute:

I will not speak for everyone, but personally, I like some of the ships, which are not included in the final version of MFM. For example, I use this ship both the old whale factory ship in my game. That's like the ship, which is called "Pelagos", the German supply ship in Norway

Seconded :sign_yeah:

[geosub1978]

An old iambecomelife's ship called P01B Troop transport was also very nice.

[iambecomelife]

An old iambecomelife's ship called P01B Troop transport was also very nice.

I remember that ship; now I hate how it looks! :haha: Very ugly. I'm not a great modder, but IMO my modeling has gotten a little better since then....for that reason, I don't like looking at my old ships.

In my opinion even the release-version of the Merchant Fleet Mod ships look outdated, especially compared to the SH5 stock merchants (I think the devs for SH5 did a very good job on the few cargo ships they did include....the proportions for the SH5 Hog Islander and Liberty Ship were very well done.)

The entire MFM needs to be replaced (among other things for the Atlantic Theatre in SH3/4/5). That will be a project for after I finish my WWI mod. Back to the WWII era! :D

[gap]

In my opinion even the release-version of the Merchant Fleet Mod ships look outdated, especially compared to the SH5 stock merchants (I think the devs for SH5 did a very good job on the few cargo ships they did include....the proportions for the SH5 Hog Islander and Liberty Ship were very well done.)

The entire MFM needs to be replaced (among other things for the Atlantic Theatre in SH3/4/5). That will be a project for after I finish my WWI mod. Back to the WWII era! :D

I didn't look in their proportions, but one of the few things I miss in your ships, is the lack of ambient occlusion maps; a good AO map adds so much to a model.

And one of the rhings I like about SH5 ships is the irregular cracking lines of their hulls, and the modelling of compartments along them :03:

[radiator]

I remember that ship...

Me too :D But for the SH3 they look very nice!

P01B
http://images.vfl.ru/ii/1483680060/255d485f/15558752.jpg

P03B
http://images.vfl.ru/ii/1483680060/11cc8b23/15558753.jpg

RP01A
http://images.vfl.ru/ii/1483680060/596baffa/15558754.jpg

The entire MFM needs to be replaced... That will be a project for after I finish my WWI mod. Back to the WWII era! :D

Excellent idea! :Kaleun_Thumbs_Up:

[LGN1]

Hi,

is there still a non-NYGM version of the interim-beta MFM available for download somewhere? I couldn't find it anywhere :-?

Best, LGN1

[Plissken_04]

Hi,

is there still a non-NYGM version of the interim-beta MFM available for download somewhere? I couldn't find it anywhere :-?

Best, LGN1

Take a look here.


ftp://Maik:Woelfe@hartmuthaas.no-ip.org/Public/Sharing/SH3COMMUNITYMODS/IAMBECOMELIFE/

ftp://Maik:Woelfe@diskstation.gn7vmwp32iei6ome.myfritz.n et/Public/Sharing/SH3COMMUNITYMODS/IAMBECOMELIFE/



So Long

Maik

[LGN1]

Hi Plissken,

thanks for the link. Unfortunately, I can't find the interim-beta there.

The MFM-Lite-Beta seems to be a different version.

Best, LGN1

[Plissken_04]

Hi Plissken,

thanks for the link. Unfortunately, I can't find the interim-beta there.

The MFM-Lite-Beta seems to be a different version.

Best, LGN1


Ok,understood. :salute:


So Long

Maik

[LGN1]

I hope someone else still has the old version. Maybe Squaresteelbar :06:

Regards, LGN1

[SquareSteelBar]

MFM-Interim-Beta (https://www.sendspace.com/file/9adpz0) by Iambecomelife

[LGN1]

Hi Squaresteelbar,

thanks a lot for your help! :Kaleun_Applaud: :Kaleun_Applaud: :Kaleun_Applaud:
My feeling was right about your archive! :up:

Unfortunately, it seems that the NYGM ships are also not based on this version :doh:

Maybe I have to put my question differently. Has anybody a non-NYGM version of the S01B_, S02B_, S03B_, S04B_, and M15B (on which the NYGM mod is based)?

Best, LGN1

[LGN1]

Nobody still has these ships?

I think they were included in the first version of the MFM which was released (I think) in 2008 :hmmm:

Regards, LGN1