[REL] RFB/Real Fleet Boat for 1.5

[lurker_hlb3]

This is a “WARNING” to all RSRDC V395 users:

There is a bug in the CrewMember.upc files of RFB 1.5 that causes SH4 to CTD during a SpecOps Mission. The problem happens when the system gives you the prompt to launch the “life raft” during a re-supply mission. Therefore if you are assign a “SpecOps” mission from RSRDC, “reject” the mission for the time being until this problem can be corrected

[Paajtor]

rgr:up:

[CapnScurvy]

The Antenna Bearing Indicator above the A-scope is not really usable due to some overlapping parts:
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/7136/rfbantennabearingindicads2.jpg

Would be great if that could be fixed, as it is very helpful for taking bearings while using the A-scope.

What sub are you using with this device and what is the year that you've seen this overlapping image? Probably can be fixed with a resize, but I need to compare the dials first.

I've tested all subs in the 1943 "Sea Trials" mission. I've tried starting with SJ and SJ-1 radar on the same sub in the same year, and I took a sampling of different subs starting in different years. Problem is present in all cases. I see no difference of any sort in that particular part between any of the subs.

In the meantime, you can try to overcome this issue, by using the free camera (Shift+F2), and travel to the device, and get a better viewing angle this way.

Well, RFB defaults to free cam, and that is how I took the close-up screenshot above. Viewing angle makes no difference as the "parts" are tightly overlapped.

Ok , so the image comes up with the 1943 "Sea Trials" mission. I'll try to replicate and compare the size of the images to stock. Should be do able.

:ping: For those interested, we have narrowed down the culprit file for the torpedo firing problem with a "saved, then reloaded game". It's just a matter of changing a file enough to correct the torpedo specifications within real life parameters, yet have it compatible with Silent Hunter to have it work seamlessly in all aspects of the game. We are very close to having this problem behind us.

RFB Team Member

[TopcatWA]

Further update on my torpedo veering off target problem. The 2nd war patrol seemed to work ok with all torpedoes finding their target with a couple of duds reported. I'm now on my third war patrol based out of Fremantle & on patrol in the Celebes Sea choke point (11th.April1942). First target sunk OK. When setting up second target & firing torpedoes it appears that the veering off problem has re-occurred. I have dud torpedoes enabled & was wondering if this is part of the program where initially some MK.14 torpedoes did have faults around that time & this is written into the program. I fired 4 - mk.14 torps & they all veered off target soon after leaving the tube? With all the RFB patches (i.e.RFB patch 05108 & RFB TorpedoPatch 051908) is there a set order to install these mod patches? Perhaps I've installed it incorrectly & this is causing the problem???
P.S. I have not installed the 05108 patch at present.

[CapnScurvy]

With all the RFB patches (i.e.RFB patch 05108 & RFB TorpedoPatch 051908) is there a set order to install these mod patches? Perhaps I've installed it incorrectly & this is causing the problem???
P.S. I have not installed the 05108 patch at present.


Yes, there is. I don't have access to the first post of this thread, so I can't make the initial post any clearer then it is. The "Main RFB File" is currently dated 051408, make sure you have this file in your JSGME for activation. Remove all others that are not named "RFB_v1.5_051408". The most recent "RFB Patch" that is linked in the first post is named "RFB_ Patch_052108". This patch is cumulative with several changes put together. So the correct activation order of RFB 1.5 in JSGME is:

RFB_v1.5_051408
RFB_Patch_052108

Since we are working on several outstanding issues at present we will undoubtedly have another patch with a more recent date forthcoming.

RFB Team Member

[TopcatWA]

Capt. Scurvy quoted:
"Yes, there is. I don't have access to the first post of this thread, so I can't make the initial post any clearer then it is. The "Main RFB File" is currently dated 051408, make sure you have this file in your JSGME for activation. Remove all others that are not named "RFB_v1.5_051408". The most recent "RFB Patch" that is linked in the first post is named "RFB_ Patch_052108". This patch is cumulative with several changes put together. So the correct activation order of RFB 1.5 in JSGME is:

RFB_v1.5_051408
RFB_Patch_052108

Since we are working on several outstanding issues at present we will undoubtedly have another patch with a more recent date forthcoming.

RFB Team Member[/quote]


OK. I assume RFB patch 052108 incorporates the earlier torpedo patch so I will delete that one from my Mod list. Thanks for the reply. Cheers.

[panthercules]

Well, bummer - finally downloaded the 1.5 add-on, installed it on a fresh clean copy of 1.4, then installed the latest PE and RFB (at least I think they're the latest, based on the first posts in the threads), and went out for a spin with my usual testbed (Salmon class out of Cavite in Dec. 1941)

Everything looked good and I was checking out all the new stuff in the add-on when I clicked the "Battlestations" order bar button by mistake. After checking the crew compartment screen to see what effect BS had on compartment efficiency bars, I clicked the Battlestations order bar button again to have everybody stand down and BOOM - CTD

Running a bare minimum of mods for this early testing, as follows:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/Cladean/JSGMEscreenshot.jpg

Tried re-booting, starting game again, starting a new career (same boat type and date) - this time I tried it just as I was leaving Cavite instead of a couple of days out - same result - immediate CTD when pressing button to turn off Battlestations while looking at the crew management screen.

Any ideas what may be causing this?

[edit] - looks like it's something in RFB - when I backed out the 3 RFB mods above and tried again, no CTD with just the PE mods loaded. I'll try loading in the RFB files one at a time now to see which one seems to trigger it.

[edit] - OK - seems to be isolated to something in the RFB German Audio Files module - worked fine with each of the first 2 RFB files put back, but CTD'd in exactly the same way once I loaded the German audio files module back in.

[edit] - looks like the culprit is the following file in the RFB German Audio files mod: Submarine_GQ_secure_battle_stations_INT.wav - When I removed that from the mod it no longer gives a CTD when securing from battlestations. Now sure what's different about that file, but hopefully it can be fixed without too much trouble.

[Maltro]

A last one... What can I do if I want to keep the stock visual effects for sub, contacts ect on the nav map please ? Sorry I am not a good modder... :oops:
If, as I think, you mean the blue & red contact markers on the nav map with direction tails, the solution would be to temporarily disable the mod and remove following items from the mod:

data\menu\gui/contline.dds
data\menu/\gui/Dashline.dds

The above should bring back everything except the ship silhuettes. In order to get the ship silhuettes back, too, go to the data\sea folder, search and delete the *_shp.dds files in each sub folder (I have 144 sub folders, yours may vary).

After the above is done, re-enable the mod, and the stock contact markers should be back.

Additionally, if you want to make sure to also have the stock contact symbols for aircraft, ship destroyed, land contact etc., you can easily make a little mod by making a copy of following folder of the stock game: data\menu\gui\units. Save that folder (with the path) into a new mod folder, say "stock contact marker". Then enable this new mod (stock contact marker\data\menu\gui\units) with JSGME after the big mod, and you should have back all stock contact markers, which however reduces the aspect of increased reality in the big mod.;)

Thank you very much for your help :up: :D I will try your first tips and if I fail will try the second. I didn't know where to find this files. Thank you !

:arrgh!:

[Weather-guesser]

Hey RFB Team,
Great job guys. :rock: I just make sure I don't save a patrol now unless I'm on my way home until the mk 14 issue gets fixed.

Question: The sub creaking noises seem very faint when I took both the P and GAR class down to crush depth. I didn't even think they were there until I heard them with AVG's internal sound since it toned down the interior backround noise. Were the creaking sounds turned way down on purpose?

Mod setup
1.NSM4 Classic
2.ROW-PE 3.
3.RFB v.1.5_051408
4.RFB_Patch_052108
5.RSRDC_RFBv15_V395_RC5
6.AVG's modified interior sub sound

I tested this in NSM's test mission and in regular campaign

[RFB Team]

[edit] - looks like the culprit is the following file in the RFB German Audio files mod: Submarine_GQ_secure_battle_stations_INT.wav - When I removed that from the mod it no longer gives a CTD when securing from battlestations. Now sure what's different about that file, but hopefully it can be fixed without too much trouble.

Found out what the problem is - stand by for a fix.

EDIT: do realize, you are NOT supposed to run the German audio files mod when playing a German career. It's in the first post of this thread.

[RFB Team]

All,

Please re-download the German Audio Files pack from the first post in this thread. It fixes a problem with one of the audio files causing the Game to CTD when securing from General Quarters.

[RFB Team]

Important patch update:

http://dodownload.filefront.com/10368736//52241174ef994b1b4752c254b94a359d298d324b24aa08287d ad3c97f70ce8354ed5d22a495dce12

This file fixes the CTD that would happen when trying to launch a supply boat with American special ops missions. Enable it on top of any other RFB patches you may have installed.

[vanjast]

@ RFB Team...
Are we finished with all the big file mods, and only small overlay patches coming up ?

Asking as I'm waiting for the 'final' big file download/update before I continue..

Thanks for the great stuff :up:

Der Van

[RFB Team]

@ RFB Team...
Are we finished with all the big file mods, and only small overlay patches coming up ?

Asking as I'm waiting for the 'final' big file download/update before I continue..

Thanks for the great stuff :up:

Der Van

Once we have fixed the torpedo problem, we will most likely re-release 1.5 as a whole, so people don't have to overlay patches on top of the main file.

[Fish40]

Sounds like a plan.:up:

[THE_MASK]

If the RFB1.5 team integrated w_clear mod into rfb1.5 that would be awesome :yep:

[panthercules]

[edit] - looks like the culprit is the following file in the RFB German Audio files mod: Submarine_GQ_secure_battle_stations_INT.wav - When I removed that from the mod it no longer gives a CTD when securing from battlestations. Now sure what's different about that file, but hopefully it can be fixed without too much trouble.

Found out what the problem is - stand by for a fix.

EDIT: do realize, you are NOT supposed to run the German audio files mod when playing a German career. It's in the first post of this thread.

I must be having trouble reading the small print on this new 1920x1200 monitor, 'cause I still couldn't find the reference to this in the first post. At any rate, did you mean that you're not supposed to run the German audio files when running a German career, or a US career? Having missed the reference the first time around, I just figured that the German sounds just wouldn't be used if you were playing a US career, so that's what I was doing when I got the CTD. It sounds like maybe I just shouldn't have installed/activated the German audio files pack unless/until I was ready to play a German career? Does it still matter now that you've released a fix for this file problem (quick work on that, BTW :up: ), or is it now OK to go ahead and load up the German audio files regardless of what side you're going to play?

[LukeFF]

I must be having trouble reading the small print on this new 1920x1200 monitor, 'cause I still couldn't find the reference to this in the first post. At any rate, did you mean that you're not supposed to run the German audio files when running a German career, or a US career? Having missed the reference the first time around, I just figured that the German sounds just wouldn't be used if you were playing a US career, so that's what I was doing when I got the CTD. It sounds like maybe I just shouldn't have installed/activated the German audio files pack unless/until I was ready to play a German career? Does it still matter now that you've released a fix for this file problem (quick work on that, BTW :up: ), or is it now OK to go ahead and load up the German audio files regardless of what side you're going to play?

The German audio files are designed to replace certain "standard" files that would sound out of place with a German career (e.g., General Quarters). As such, you only need to enable them *on top of the main RFB file* when playing a German career.

The CTD had nothing to do with enabling the German sounds with an American career. The problem was that I had a "silent" audio file in there that was 0.00 seconds long. SH4 doesn't like that and will CTD when it tries to play it. The solution was to create a 0.25-second blank audio file, and the problem went away.

[RFB Team]

Update on the Mk. 14 torpedo problem:

It looks like we have finally found the source of the problem with Mk. 14s veering off to the left after re-loading a saved game. Provided all goes well, we will release a new RFB file that rolls in all the patches into one release within the next couple of days.

[Tarred Rope]

Superb job, looking forward to it :up: SH4 without RFB is like Fish without Chips (toast without Beluga caviar? Er... I'll stop now) :)

[boneman]

SHOW ME SCREENSHOTS OF THIS MOD AND ROW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

P L E A S E:sunny:

[AVGWarhawk]

SHOW ME SCREENSHOTS OF THIS MOD AND ROW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

P L E A S E:sunny:

Look in the ROW thread for screens of ROW. RFB is internal workings of the sub via modding the subs to be similar to the actual submarine of that era. There are no screenshots for value changes inside the files.

[sunbeam_cz]

hi sailors
newbie modder quetion: is it right that RFB1.5 + patch disables AP rounds for my deck gun??
I´m sure it isnt!!!.:doh:
for example I tried artillery training and I can fire only with HE rounds - in 1.5 stock
I can fire with both type of ammo.
can anyone help?, it really sucks me


SH4 rules :rock:

[akdavis]

hi sailors
newbie modder quetion: is it right that RFB1.5 + patch disables AP rounds for my deck gun??
I´m sure it isnt!!!.:doh:
for example I tried artillery training and I can fire only with HE rounds - in 1.5 stock
I can fire with both type of ammo.
can anyone help?, it really sucks me


SH4 rules :rock:

That is a shame that it is sucking you. :oops: But it is historically accurate (aka Real) that these submarines did not carry armor piercing ammunition for their deck guns.

[RFB Team]

But it is historically accurate (aka Real) that these submarines did not carry armor piercing ammunition for their deck guns.

Exactly. Everything in RFB has been researched very carefully to make sure it conforms as much as possible with the historical record, and that certainly includes ammo counts and types for all guns.

[sunbeam_cz]

no APs? OK?? didnt know that... so can I expect them later in game or never??
one more Q:can you tell me HOW can I sink small merchant ships,freighters,trawelers without using torps?
I tried to shoot at their decks with HE but their crew always deal with a fire easily..

[RFB Team]

no APs? OK?? didnt know that... so can I expect them later in game or never??
one more Q:can you tell me HOW can I sink small merchant ships,freighters,trawelers without using torps?
I tried to shoot at their decks with HE but their crew always deal with a fire easily..

No, you will always have HE loaded in your guns (for American boats; some German guns have AP).

You need to aim at the waterline to sink ships with the deck gun.

[RFB Team]

All,

A new, all-inclusive version of RFB is currently being compiled and uploaded to our server and should be available within the next hour or so. This will roll together the "old' main RFB file with all the fixes and changes made since that time, including a fix for the Mk. 14 veering off-course after re-loading a saved game.

[akdavis]

Great news!

[Schultzy]

excellent news...

waiting impatiently ;)

Thanks guys for all that you do!

[Weather-guesser]

Yeah baby! Yeah! :rock:

[RFB Team]

New file is up! Check the first post. Also note we have reinstated the link for the 1.4 version. As is stated in the first post, DO NOT post questions about 1.4 in this thread. We put the link back up as a courtesy to those still using 1.4, but we are no longer conducting development work on SH4 V1.4.

[Schultzy]

thank you team, d/ling now

[TopcatWA]

Thanks RFB Team for all the hard work. Much appreciated.:up: :up: :up:

[RFB Team]

Hope you guys all like it. We have even more good stuff in store for the next release (1.51? not sure what it will be called, yet). We'll just say for right now that a key member of NYGM has joined the team. :up:

[czACha]

Thank you for your hard work RFB TEAM.
Can you help me with some factors about shells effectiveness in you mode?
3,5" = ?
4,5"=?
5,2"=?

[sunbeam_cz]

no APs? OK?? didnt know that... so can I expect them later in game or never??
one more Q:can you tell me HOW can I sink small merchant ships,freighters,trawelers without using torps?
I tried to shoot at their decks with HE but their crew always deal with a fire easily..
No, you will always have HE loaded in your guns (for American boats; some German guns have AP).

You need to aim at the waterline to sink ships with the deck gun.


aim with HE at the waterline?? whats the point of that??
I mean why I shouldn´t aim at hull too?? is there any difference between waterline and hull armor scale??
I don´t think so.
I know that you are trying to be historically accurate as much as possible,but you can´t beat the game code which doesn´t count with HE penetration.
anyone knows that HE fired from 75mm gun can penetrate min 30mm of 90 degrees slope armor!! (you know something about subs and I about tanks :D)
try to think about it.
I think its pitty to disable it,because holes made by AP looks simply wonderfull!!:yep:

[Fincuan]

aim with HE at the waterline?? whats the point of that??
I mean why I shouldn´t aim at hull too?? is there any difference between waterline and hull armor scale??

It's very simple: In the stock game ships have so little hitpoints that it's easy to destroy them by shooting all over the place. Unfortunately real ships don't have hitpoints, nor do SH4 ships when using NSM. In NSM they have 20000 hitpoints, while one hit with 5 inch HE ammo takes away maybe 20-30. If you wan't to sink anything you must do it either by flooding or a critical hit(try to hit the keel with a deckgun), and to achieve flooding you must make holes at or below the waterline.

[ustahl]

aim with HE at the waterline?? whats the point of that??

This has been discussed almost since the beginning of SH4, and IIRC the explanation is that the ships sink as a result of water filling vital compartments through the holes created in the hull. If the hole is above the waterline no water streams in. With luck you might hit some volatile (cargo) compartment, causing a bigger explosion, which in turn causes hull ruptures for the water to pour in.
To summarize: you must make sure the ship gets filled with enough water in order to sink it. That's possible only at (or below) the waterline.

[sunbeam_cz]

aim with HE at the waterline?? whats the point of that??
I mean why I shouldn´t aim at hull too?? is there any difference between waterline and hull armor scale??
It's very simple: In the stock game ships have so little hitpoints that it's easy to destroy them by shooting all over the place. Unfortunately real ships don't have hitpoints, nor do SH4 ships when using NSM. In NSM they have 20000 hitpoints, while one hit with 5 inch HE ammo takes away maybe 20-30. If you wan't to sink anything you must do it either by flooding or a critical hit(try to hit the keel with a deckgun), and to achieve flooding you must make holes at or below the waterline.

thx for explanation!!
BUT can you tell me how can I achieve flooding using HE and firing below waterline if shell doesnt penetrate ship´s armor?? or does it? I tried it there miliontimes and not even a scratch on boat´s hull.(using NSM 4 and PE3)
if yes,why it doesnt penetrate ship´s hull above waterline??:damn:

anyway thx for support sailors:ping::ping::ping:

[Fincuan]

can you tell me how can I achieve flooding using HE and firing below waterline if shell doesnt penetrate ship´s armor?

The default NSM HE should penetrate the hull of most if not all merchants, while AP is for warships. In RFB there's only one kind of ammo, and I haven't yet tested its penetration capabilities.

[Schultzy]

We'll just say for right now that a key member of NYGM has joined the team

is that a bear sized teaser?? :cool:

looking forward to even better things then... loving the latest release, keep up the great work guys, can't say thank you enough! :up:

[dasintra]

Hi,

I've encountered really frustrating bug in this version of RFB. I mean totally harmless escorts who don't drop ANY DC. I think that it is linked with animation problem - all crafts drop theirs charges non-stop, however there is no splash and no explosion. Is there any way to fix it up?
I hope it could be done, because I'm running my rfb from it's very first version. :D

[Wilcke]

Hi,

I've encountered really frustrating bug in this version of RFB. I mean totally harmless escorts who don't drop ANY DC. I think that it is linked with animation problem - all crafts drop theirs charges non-stop, however there is no splash and no explosion. Is there any way to fix it up?
I hope it could be done, because I'm running my rfb from it's very first version. :D

Just to clarify; when the DD make their runs, there is not depth charge coming off the DD and splashing into the water and sinking and going boom. Correct?

Or, they are not releasing any depth charges at all but still making their runs?

Or are they just ignoring you? No runs no drops.

I am so behind on my testing!:nope:

[czACha]

Thank you for your hard work RFB TEAM.
Can you help me with some factors about shells effectiveness in you mode?
3,5" = ?
4,5"=?
5,2"=?
I would be appreciate for an answer

[dasintra]

Hi,

I've encountered really frustrating bug in this version of RFB. I mean totally harmless escorts who don't drop ANY DC. I think that it is linked with animation problem - all crafts drop theirs charges non-stop, however there is no splash and no explosion. Is there any way to fix it up?
I hope it could be done, because I'm running my rfb from it's very first version. :D

Just to clarify; when the DD make their runs, there is not depth charge coming off the DD and splashing into the water and sinking and going boom. Correct?

Or, they are not releasing any depth charges at all but still making their runs?

Or are they just ignoring you? No runs no drops.

I am so behind on my testing!:nope:



Escorts make their runs, however they drop any DC's. I've tested this in every possible way - by going at full speed near surface with multiple DD's above.
What is most funny, every escorts seems to have their DC drop animation always "on". Looks ridiculous to me, but "no-DC onboard" is a real trouble here.

[DrBeast]

Hi,

I've encountered really frustrating bug in this version of RFB. I mean totally harmless escorts who don't drop ANY DC. I think that it is linked with animation problem - all crafts drop theirs charges non-stop, however there is no splash and no explosion. Is there any way to fix it up?
I hope it could be done, because I'm running my rfb from it's very first version. :D
Just to clarify; when the DD make their runs, there is not depth charge coming off the DD and splashing into the water and sinking and going boom. Correct?

Or, they are not releasing any depth charges at all but still making their runs?

Or are they just ignoring you? No runs no drops.

I am so behind on my testing!:nope:


Escorts make their runs, however they [don't(?)] drop any DC's. I've tested this in every possible way - by going at full speed near surface with multiple DD's above.
What is most funny, every escorts seems to have their DC drop animation always "on". Looks ridiculous to me, but "no-DC onboard" is a real trouble here.

This reminds me of a bug in an old version of ROW. The culprit then was the guns_radars.sim file.

[JackMaga]

Escorts make their runs, however they drop any DC's. I've tested this in every possible way - by going at full speed near surface with multiple DD's above.
What is most funny, every escorts seems to have their DC drop animation always "on". Looks ridiculous to me, but "no-DC onboard" is a real trouble here.

I've seen myself the same bug... looks like the DC drop animation is always on.
However some of the destroyers did indeed drop some DC which exploded and damaged my sub.
Hope it helps to clear the picture a little... ;)

BTW: this mod rocks!:up:

[akdavis]

Hi,

I've encountered really frustrating bug in this version of RFB. I mean totally harmless escorts who don't drop ANY DC. I think that it is linked with animation problem - all crafts drop theirs charges non-stop, however there is no splash and no explosion. Is there any way to fix it up?
I hope it could be done, because I'm running my rfb from it's very first version. :D
Just to clarify; when the DD make their runs, there is not depth charge coming off the DD and splashing into the water and sinking and going boom. Correct?

Or, they are not releasing any depth charges at all but still making their runs?

Or are they just ignoring you? No runs no drops.

I am so behind on my testing!:nope:


Escorts make their runs, however they [don't(?)] drop any DC's. I've tested this in every possible way - by going at full speed near surface with multiple DD's above.
What is most funny, every escorts seems to have their DC drop animation always "on". Looks ridiculous to me, but "no-DC onboard" is a real trouble here.

This reminds me of a bug in an old version of ROW. The culprit then was the guns_radars.sim file.

Well, from what I can see, Japanese DC deployment systems are in a new guns_radars04.dat file that RFB adds, but this has no attendant guns_radars04.sim file, only a .zon, and I can't find another file that it links to for .sim properties.

[RFB Team]

Hi,

I've encountered really frustrating bug in this version of RFB. I mean totally harmless escorts who don't drop ANY DC. I think that it is linked with animation problem - all crafts drop theirs charges non-stop, however there is no splash and no explosion. Is there any way to fix it up?
I hope it could be done, because I'm running my rfb from it's very first version. :D

Mods enabled, and in what order? Date and location? Target type?

[dasintra]

Hi,

I've encountered really frustrating bug in this version of RFB. I mean totally harmless escorts who don't drop ANY DC. I think that it is linked with animation problem - all crafts drop theirs charges non-stop, however there is no splash and no explosion. Is there any way to fix it up?
I hope it could be done, because I'm running my rfb from it's very first version. :D

Mods enabled, and in what order? Date and location? Target type?

I've just installed sh+ubm, then run only two mods (enabled in the same order as below; through JSGME)

- RFB 1.5
- rfb patch052018
- ROW v3.3
- rfb patch052608




btw. Is there any way to do sth about deck gun efficiency? I've hit encoutered cargo with 50+ rounds and it was still running at full speed (~15kn).

[akdavis]

Hi,

I've encountered really frustrating bug in this version of RFB. I mean totally harmless escorts who don't drop ANY DC. I think that it is linked with animation problem - all crafts drop theirs charges non-stop, however there is no splash and no explosion. Is there any way to fix it up?
I hope it could be done, because I'm running my rfb from it's very first version. :D

Mods enabled, and in what order? Date and location? Target type?

yeah, I'm almost certain the problem is the missing "guns_radars_04.sim" file. Remove "guns_radars.sim" from stock 1.5 and you will get exactly the behavior described above.

[Wilcke]

Hi,

I've encountered really frustrating bug in this version of RFB. I mean totally harmless escorts who don't drop ANY DC. I think that it is linked with animation problem - all crafts drop theirs charges non-stop, however there is no splash and no explosion. Is there any way to fix it up?
I hope it could be done, because I'm running my rfb from it's very first version. :D
Mods enabled, and in what order? Date and location? Target type?
I've just installed sh+ubm, then run only two mods (enabled in the same order as below; through JSGME)

- RFB 1.5
- rfb patch052018
- ROW v3.3
- rfb patch052608




btw. Is there any way to do sth about deck gun efficiency? I've hit encoutered cargo with 50+ rounds and it was still running at full speed (~15kn).


DC problem being explored by the RFB Team.


If you are running the latest version of RFB you do not need patches.

It will be RFB 1.5 05282008.

Do not run ROW over the top of RFB, I am sure it will break something in RFB. If its overwriting files its going to cause problems.

As to the deck gun, RFB models it in realistic terms. It's something you learn to live with, change on your own or just unload the mod. The deck gun has been discussed ad nauseum.

I hope this works for you!

Happy Hunting:ping:!

[akdavis]

DC problem being explored by the RFB Team.

Well, if this helps, specifically the following Japanese ships are unaffected or are partially unaffected depending on date:

COKaibokan
AuxSubchaser

No13 (after 19440701)
Minekaze (after 19430901)
Mutsuki (after 19431231)
Subchaser (after 19440131)
Shiratsuya (after 19430501)
Akizuki (after 19440401)
Asashio (after 19440315)

This is because they either never use any of the systems in "guns_radars_04" or revert entirely to the stock systems in "guns_radars" after a certain date (i.e. "DCRack_SH4," "YGun," and "KGun"). There are some overlapping dates on many where some systems are working and others are not because of a mix of systems from "guns_radars_04" and "guns_radars". I don't know if any ships that aren't Japanese use systems from "guns_radars_04".

[RFB Team]

I've just installed sh+ubm, then run only two mods (enabled in the same order as below; through JSGME)

- RFB 1.5
- rfb patch052018
- ROW v3.3
- rfb patch052608

This is why we put up detailed instructions in the first post about what needs to be installed and in what order to get the mod running properly. Not saying there isn't a problem with Japanese DDs (we're looking into the matter), but it does help clear up any confusion over what is a bug and what is not.

[lurker_hlb3]

DC problem being explored by the RFB Team.
Well, if this helps, specifically the following Japanese ships are unaffected or are partially unaffected depending on date:

COKaibokan
AuxSubchaser

No13 (after 19440701)
Minekaze (after 19430901)
Mutsuki (after 19431231)
Subchaser (after 19440131)
Shiratsuya (after 19430501)
Akizuki (after 19440401)
Asashio (after 19440315)

This is because they either never use any of the systems in "guns_radars_04" or revert entirely to the stock systems in "guns_radars" after a certain date (i.e. "DCRack_SH4," "YGun," and "KGun"). There are some overlapping dates on many where some systems are working and others are not because of a mix of systems from "guns_radars_04" and "guns_radars". I don't know if any ships that aren't Japanese use systems from "guns_radars_04".


Very nice trouble shooting. If you go into the "ShipsPart" directory and look "VERY" close at the guns_radars_XX file names I bet you can figure out what's wrong

[RFB Team]

This fix is intended for those who are not running the RSRDC campaign mod with RFB. It fixes the problem of Japanese warships not dropping depth charges when making an attack run on your boat:

http://dodownload.filefront.com/10425465//52241174ef994b1b4752c254b94a359d298d324b24aa08287d ad3c97f70ce8354ed5d22a495dce12

[akdavis]

DC problem being explored by the RFB Team.
Well, if this helps, specifically the following Japanese ships are unaffected or are partially unaffected depending on date:

COKaibokan
AuxSubchaser

No13 (after 19440701)
Minekaze (after 19430901)
Mutsuki (after 19431231)
Subchaser (after 19440131)
Shiratsuya (after 19430501)
Akizuki (after 19440401)
Asashio (after 19440315)

This is because they either never use any of the systems in "guns_radars_04" or revert entirely to the stock systems in "guns_radars" after a certain date (i.e. "DCRack_SH4," "YGun," and "KGun"). There are some overlapping dates on many where some systems are working and others are not because of a mix of systems from "guns_radars_04" and "guns_radars". I don't know if any ships that aren't Japanese use systems from "guns_radars_04".


Very nice trouble shooting. If you go into the "ShipsPart" directory and look "VERY" close at the guns_radars_XX file names I bet you can figure out what's wrong

Obviously exactly what I said earlier, but then two posts suggested it was still being looked into, so I thought there might be more going on that at first appeared to me. Your arrogance towards people just trying to be helpful is not very flattering.

yeah, I'm almost certain the problem is the missing "guns_radars_04.sim" file

[dasintra]

This fix is intended for those who are not running the RSRDC campaign mod with RFB. It fixes the problem of Japanese warships not dropping depth charges when making an attack run on your boat:

http://dodownload.filefront.com/10425465//52241174ef994b1b4752c254b94a359d298d324b24aa08287d ad3c97f70ce8354ed5d22a495dce12



Thanks for this fix, now works like it should.

[czACha]

Thank you for your hard work RFB TEAM.
Can you help me with some factors about shells effectiveness in you mode?
3,5" = ?
4,5"=?
5,2"=?
I would be appreciate for an answer

Well.... I don't understand, is there anyone who can answer this question?
I do not need to be convinced about gun effectiveness, I just want to now differences in effectiveness between all 3 calibers.

[dasintra]

Next problem found (hope it's the last one). I've loaded RSRDC for rfb and started new game in 1945 just to try Tench-class boat and it's two deck guns. I was supprised when saw, that both AAs and DG's don't have any ammunition at all.
I can tell you that on pure version of RFB 1.5 this problem doesn't showed up, soooo I think it is related with patch(es).

[lurker_hlb3]

Next problem found (hope it's the last one). I've loaded RSRDC for rfb and started new game in 1945 just to try Tench-class boat and it's two deck guns. I was supprised when saw, that both AAs and DG's don't have any ammunition at all.
I can tell you that on pure version of RFB 1.5 this problem doesn't showed up, soooo I think it is related with patch(es).



http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=865437&postcount=205

[RFB Team]

Well.... I don't understand, is there anyone who can answer this question?
I do not need to be convinced about gun effectiveness, I just want to now differences in effectiveness between all 3 calibers.

3" is a very weak weapon. It was originally designed as an AA gun during WWI. Best used to finish off cripples.

4" has about a 50% increase in performance over the 3". Takes about 25 good hits along the waterline of the 1800-ton Japanese freighter to sink it. Again, though, mainly used to finish off cripples (sense a pattern here? ;)). The German 105mm deck gun shares the same shell data as the 4". (4" = 101mm).

5" is about 50% more powerful than 4".

These are the rough values for the current release. Shell values are being tweaked and adjusted already for the next RFB release.

[dasintra]

Next problem found (hope it's the last one). I've loaded RSRDC for rfb and started new game in 1945 just to try Tench-class boat and it's two deck guns. I was supprised when saw, that both AAs and DG's don't have any ammunition at all.
I can tell you that on pure version of RFB 1.5 this problem doesn't showed up, soooo I think it is related with patch(es).



http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=865437&postcount=205


Thanks

[czACha]

Well.... I don't understand, is there anyone who can answer this question?
I do not need to be convinced about gun effectiveness, I just want to now differences in effectiveness between all 3 calibers.
3" is a very weak weapon. It was originally designed as an AA gun during WWI. Best used to finish off cripples.

4" has about a 50% increase in performance over the 3". Takes about 25 good hits along the waterline of the 1800-ton Japanese freighter to sink it. Again, though, mainly used to finish off cripples (sense a pattern here? ;)). The German 105mm deck gun shares the same shell data as the 4". (4" = 101mm).

5" is about 50% more powerful than 4".

These are the rough values for the current release. Shell values are being tweaked and adjusted already for the next RFB release.

Thank you, I've started to think I'm invisible

[CapnScurvy]

The Antenna Bearing Indicator above the A-scope is not really usable due to some overlapping parts:
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/7136/rfbantennabearingindicads2.jpg

Would be great if that could be fixed, as it is very helpful for taking bearings while using the A-scope.

We have corrected the problem with the Radar Bearing dial. The temporary RFB 1.5 060508 download site can be found here (http://files.filefront.com/RFB+v15+060308rar/;10482319;/fileinfo.html) which includes the following fixs:

1. A fix for the depth charge capacity and availability of several of the escort ships (DC Patch 052808).

2. A reworked Radar Bearing dial for manually focusing the beam.

3. Changed the graphics for the main Deck Gun and smaller armaments ammunition, to better show what your using. Both the American and German sides were modified.

4. Added two Word documents. One is a revised instruction for the SCAF mod that is used within RFB 1.5 for finding manual range with the Stadimeter. The second is a corrected RFB Keyboard Command list.

5. Added the optional JSGME compatible Metric Nomographs for both American and German sides.

No other previous patches dated prior to 060308 need to be added. This version is cumulative of all other fix's.

=======================

For those that may not know, there is a Bearing Dial at the Radar Station for pointing the fucus beam in a particular direction. This dial was only partially seen with the stock game view, and was quite useless without being fully seen. With RFB, the bearing dial can be easily seen just above the A-Scope (PPI Radar screen). Although the dial can not be manipulated as the Sonar Bearing dial by using a mouse click, the Radar Bearing Dial can be manually moved with the Home/End keys.

As the image below shows the outer stationary bearing ring is the subs "relative bearing", as it relates to the sub itself. The 0 bearing is straight foward of the sub, 27 (270 degrees) is Port (left), 9 (90 degrees) is right or Starboard.

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w132/crawlee/SH4Img2008-05-31_212932_703.jpg


The inner moving dial is the "true" bearing to north of the subs heading. You will note the upper top most degree bearing of the inner dial is the same as the compass dial. The arrows between the two dials can be moved with the Home/End keys when the radar switch is set to manual "Focus", not "Sweep". This will give you the ability to keep either the Surface (SJ) or Air (SD) radars pointing towards a particular direction.

RFB Team Member

[AVGWarhawk]

Very cool. :D

[Wilcke]

Well done Captain!

[Nisgeis]

The work on the radar train bearing indicator certainly helps things I have planned. Very nice work.

This will give you the ability to keep either the Surface (SJ) or Air (SD) radars pointing towards a particular direction.

Sorry to nitpick, please don't take this as criticism, but isn't the SD radar omnidirectional?

[Nephandus]

A really nice and enjoyable mod.

There are some things, I did not like too much though:

- Deck Guns: The rate of fire is way too low and not quite historical.
- AA Guns: as with patch 052108, the AI AA on the boat would not work anymore. I tested it and I believe the reason was the deletion of the ammo choice
- Typos and strange phrasing in the mission briefings.
- Momi Class Destroyers having a bow wave only on the starboard side.

I made some modifications for the first two things for private use (I swear, I haven't published those... I wouldn't do without permission anyway) and currently I chose to work on the TSR files of the US campaign to correct those errors. If anyone of the RFB team is interested, feel free to contact me.

[AVGWarhawk]

A really nice and enjoyable mod.

There are some things, I did not like too much though:

- Deck Guns: The rate of fire is way too low and not quite historical.
- AA Guns: as with patch 052108, the AI AA on the boat would not work anymore. I tested it and I believe the reason was the deletion of the ammo choice
- Typos and strange phrasing in the mission briefings.
- Momi Class Destroyers having a bow wave only on the starboard side.

I made some modifications for the first two things for private use (I swear, I haven't published those... I wouldn't do without permission anyway) and currently I chose to work on the TSR files of the US campaign to correct those errors. If anyone of the RFB team is interested, feel free to contact me.


The deck gun has been a issue since SH3. Rate of fire and strong damage....who needs torpedoes? It has been castrated because the gun was more defensive then offensive. Personally if I could throw it off my boat I would. What does not happen with the cannon, it does not account for setting up range nor account for rough seas. It is just to easy if left in stock condition.

The shells offered are what was in use and available during the year you are playing. Just click on the available shell and the loading will start. The reason for this is the subs did not patrol with the cannon loaded. The shells were normally stowed in the sail and had to be retrieved with every use.

Bow wake, RFB did not do anything to files concerning bow wakes and other enviromental things. Sounds like a stock issue.


Mod anything you like within RFB. If you come up with something interesting to change, offer it up! Still very much a work in progress.

[utops]

Howdy

Installed all mods thats works with RFB in proper way step by step follow the instruction on the first thread this topic and i`ve got some problems:

1.Where is my torpedo atack map? - can`t set my fish to rock and roll in "Drum Beat" campaign of OM mod
2. In the identfication book when i look up for Panama Liberty Cargo i`ve got CTD after click on [v] - damn twice in the same situation ...
3."Bdu" sends me report about milk cow on grid XXXX(I don`t remmember correctly)
But actual map is useless - only indian ocean and pacyfic grids are visible

I dont know if i post that problems in the right thread, but if this mod is base mod and be compatible with MO so let it be here

Thx for tips and your patience!

-t

ps. sorry about my english ... become little rusty.

[LukeFF]

Sorry to nitpick, please don't take this as criticism, but isn't the SD radar omnidirectional?

Correct. The radar dial will rotate along the same bearing as the PPI scope.

[RFB Team]

A really nice and enjoyable mod.

There are some things, I did not like too much though:

- Deck Guns: The rate of fire is way too low and not quite historical.
- AA Guns: as with patch 052108, the AI AA on the boat would not work anymore. I tested it and I believe the reason was the deletion of the ammo choice
- Typos and strange phrasing in the mission briefings.
- Momi Class Destroyers having a bow wave only on the starboard side.

I made some modifications for the first two things for private use (I swear, I haven't published those... I wouldn't do without permission anyway) and currently I chose to work on the TSR files of the US campaign to correct those errors. If anyone of the RFB team is interested, feel free to contact me.

The 3" gun was originally designed during WWI to be an anti-aircraft gun and was found to be quite useless against ships once the war broke out (3" = 76.2 mm).
The AI will load their weapons when ordered to open fire.
We did not touch mission briefings; that is all stuff modified by RSRD.
Momi class destroyers, as well, are an RSRD mod, not ours.

[Nephandus]

A really nice and enjoyable mod.

There are some things, I did not like too much though:

- Deck Guns: The rate of fire is way too low and not quite historical.
- AA Guns: as with patch 052108, the AI AA on the boat would not work anymore. I tested it and I believe the reason was the deletion of the ammo choice
- Typos and strange phrasing in the mission briefings.
- Momi Class Destroyers having a bow wave only on the starboard side.

I made some modifications for the first two things for private use (I swear, I haven't published those... I wouldn't do without permission anyway) and currently I chose to work on the TSR files of the US campaign to correct those errors. If anyone of the RFB team is interested, feel free to contact me.


The 3" gun was originally designed during WWI to be an anti-aircraft gun and was found to be quite useless against ships once the war broke out (3" = 76.2 mm).
The AI will load their weapons when ordered to open fire.
We did not touch mission briefings; that is all stuff modified by RSRD.
Momi class destroyers, as well, are an RSRD mod, not ours.

Thanks for the clarification.

[sunbeam_cz]

A really nice and enjoyable mod.

There are some things, I did not like too much though:

- Deck Guns: The rate of fire is way too low and not quite historical.
- AA Guns: as with patch 052108, the AI AA on the boat would not work anymore. I tested it and I believe the reason was the deletion of the ammo choice
- Typos and strange phrasing in the mission briefings.
- Momi Class Destroyers having a bow wave only on the starboard side.

I made some modifications for the first two things for private use (I swear, I haven't published those... I wouldn't do without permission anyway) and currently I chose to work on the TSR files of the US campaign to correct those errors. If anyone of the RFB team is interested, feel free to contact me.
The 3" gun was originally designed during WWI to be an anti-aircraft gun and was found to be quite useless against ships once the war broke out (3" = 76.2 mm).
The AI will load their weapons when ordered to open fire.
We did not touch mission briefings; that is all stuff modified by RSRD.
Momi class destroyers, as well, are an RSRD mod, not ours.
Ahoooy
Did you try to sink merchant boat with your uselles deck gun in artillery tutorial mission?
it´s impossible!! I used 100 shots and NOTHING! 20 shots in one same place and not even a scratch!
do you think that THIS is realistic?I don´t think so..
Your mod is the greatest,but this uselles deck gun make me sea sick:nope:.I need to use torps on EVERY ship.3inch,or 4 inch - it has the same result..
you wrote that deck gun was used primarly as an AAgun,but 76mm HE is quite a strong shell.try youtube

[AVGWarhawk]

A really nice and enjoyable mod.

There are some things, I did not like too much though:

- Deck Guns: The rate of fire is way too low and not quite historical.
- AA Guns: as with patch 052108, the AI AA on the boat would not work anymore. I tested it and I believe the reason was the deletion of the ammo choice
- Typos and strange phrasing in the mission briefings.
- Momi Class Destroyers having a bow wave only on the starboard side.

I made some modifications for the first two things for private use (I swear, I haven't published those... I wouldn't do without permission anyway) and currently I chose to work on the TSR files of the US campaign to correct those errors. If anyone of the RFB team is interested, feel free to contact me.

The 3" gun was originally designed during WWI to be an anti-aircraft gun and was found to be quite useless against ships once the war broke out (3" = 76.2 mm).
The AI will load their weapons when ordered to open fire.
We did not touch mission briefings; that is all stuff modified by RSRD.
Momi class destroyers, as well, are an RSRD mod, not ours.
Ahoooy
Did you try to sink merchant boat with your uselles deck gun in artillery tutorial mission?
it´s impossible!! I used 100 shots and NOTHING! 20 shots in one same place and not even a scratch!
do you think that THIS is realistic?I don´t think so..
Your mod is the greatest,but this uselles deck gun make me sea sick:nope:.I need to use torps on EVERY ship.3inch,or 4 inch - it has the same result..
you wrote that deck gun was used primarly as an AAgun,but 76mm HE is quite a strong shell.try youtube

Here is the issue Sunbeam, if the cannon is allowed to load like mad and be as strong as stock effectively the player is allowed to be a battleship. I was playing stock one time and attacked a convoy. I sunk all the DD and the convoy using the cannon. So you this is realistic? Unfortunate we can not have it both ways. When you use the cannon does it account for sea swells by rocking and rolling with each motion of the boat? Nope. Does this seem realistic? Therefore, the cannon becomes a weapon for a shooting gallery and you arrive back to port with 100,000 tons of shipping. Do you this is realistic? I will be the first to tell you if I miss with my torpedoes I surface and use the cannon. In doing so, why bother with the torpedoes at all? Just surface and sink a ship with 10 rounds. When it is all said and done you return with a handful of vessels sunk by the cannon and if you bothered to use the torpedoes your other hand is full. So, we can do two things here, castrate the cannon a bit or make every ship a living nightmare that never misses with the DC or the cannon(even merchants with a cannon installed). Doing that would certainly keep you submerged and the cannon is once again useless. Preferably I would have the cannon castrated a bit as DD and merchants were not all Dead Eye Dick with DC and cannons. Keep in mind though the cannon is not useless. Pump a torpedo or two in a vessel that does not want to sink and the cannon can be used to finish it off. After all, the cannon is a secondary weapon and viewed as a secondary offensive weapon but more so a defensive weapon. Unless a path can be found to make the cannon rock and roll with the boat just as you TBT and binocs do, it is best to castrate the cannon. If you think you have a better method, let us know, RFB is certainly open for improvements and ideas. I hope this clarifies why the cannon is in the state it is.

[AlmightyTallest]

When using the deck guns in RFB, make sure you put able men in the slots, you can reduce your reload time considerably by putting men on the gun with high ratings in the weapons. (Usually torpedo specialists and gunnery specialists) Also, make sure you set the deck gun crew to fire at the water line of a ship.

Using a Gato with 3" deck gun, and aiming at the waterline I've sunk a few 4,000 ton freighters and one 10,000 ton tanker entirely with the 3" deck gun in RFB.

[utops]

AVGWarhawk, ok knowledge is knowledge , but what about imagination?
You have right in some points, but Otto Kretshmer sunk cripled ship with deck gun and he used ~80 shels aimed for waterline.
Today i try sunk by deck gun liberty cargo after she take two torpedos...
~120 shels in the same point of water line and no effect... :roll:
There is chance to mod deck gun to be more harm for small and cripled merchants and still be to week to beat up DD`s ?
Another thing is why i lose fuel when my sub is on stop and battery is not recharging ?

Thx.

[vanjast]

You have it slightly wrong there, sport.
If you aiming at the same point, you end up with a grouping of holes close to one another, and at most 2 compartments will be flooded, This does not amount to a sinking ship, the way it's currently modded. This is probably close to RL as the ships did have watertight doors.

If you want to sink the ship, you must punch holes along the whole length of the ship, at the waterline, so it looks like a sieve.
:)

[Sailor Steve]

you wrote that deck gun was used primarly as an AAgun,but 76mm HE is quite a strong shell.try youtube
No, he wrote that the 3" gun was originally designed as an anti-aircraft gun. I don't know about American guns, but the 12pdr (3") British gun was originally for battleships to use against destroyers. They went to a 4" and finally 6" gun before WW1 because the 3" and then 4" because those guns were pretty much useless against the destroyers of that day - and they only displaced about 900 tons.

Otto Kretshmer sunk cripled ship with deck gun and he used ~80 shels aimed for waterline.
That would be MV Elmbank. The 'crippled' part was a torpedo hit and it took 88 shells from U-99, plus an unspecified amount from U-47, and then Kretschmer finished her off with a second torpedo!
http://uboat.net/allies/merchants/ships/542.html

Two torpedoes and 120 shells might seem a bit much, but others have reported sinking the same ship with one torpedo and no shells. The real realism comes with the variety and frustration.

[sunbeam_cz]

AVGWarhawk, ok knowledge is knowledge , but what about imagination?
You have right in some points, but Otto Kretshmer sunk cripled ship with deck gun and he used ~80 shels aimed for waterline.
Today i try sunk by deck gun liberty cargo after she take two torpedos...
~120 shels in the same point of water line and no effect... :roll:
There is chance to mod deck gun to be more harm for small and cripled merchants and still be to week to beat up DD`s ?
Another thing is why i lose fuel when my sub is on stop and battery is not recharging ?

Thx.
not a bad idea about that harming of small ships with deck guns.not ALL ships just a small ships.
damage model of deck gun is very realistic(holes..) so why shoudn´t we enjoy it at least with small "innocent"ships.:hmm:

[sunbeam_cz]

You have it slightly wrong there, sport.
If you aiming at the same point, you end up with a grouping of holes close to one another, and at most 2 compartments will be flooded, This does not amount to a sinking ship, the way it's currently modded. This is probably close to RL as the ships did have watertight doors.

If you want to sink the ship, you must punch holes along the whole length of the ship, at the waterline, so it looks like a sieve.
:)
hey buddy are you sure that you are playing RFB(with nsm4 eventually) ???
cause punching holes is impossible.the shell simply doesn´t penetrate even the slightest armor.
I tried to shot at one waterline point of small merchant boat 60 times and not even a scratch.:damn:

[utops]

You have it slightly wrong there, sport.
If you aiming at the same point, you end up with a grouping of holes close to one another, and at most 2 compartments will be flooded, This does not amount to a sinking ship, the way it's currently modded. This is probably close to RL as the ships did have watertight doors.

If you want to sink the ship, you must punch holes along the whole length of the ship, at the waterline, so it looks like a sieve.
:)
Hehe right but that was HE shells and i was shooting on starboard after portboard was punched by torpedos .... Im imagine in real that kind of damages on ship be enough to sink her down ;)
But who knows, maybe in blige she carry empty barrels or something :>


Thx for reply.

Im going back on pacyfic *singing*

[akdavis]

Here is just one example of a fleet boat surface action AAR:

U.S.S. BATFISH
Gun Attack No. 1


[Patrol No. 3

Time: 1125-1300(I). Date: 1 July
Lat: 31°45', Long: 140°39'E

Target Data - Damage Inflicted

Sunk:

(1) One large trawler of about 500 tons. Japanese name and seal were painted on the side but not interpreted. He had a high bow, very high foremast, bridge amidships, diesel stack, raised living quarters aft and a high mainmast. Crates and drums stowed on deck - no apparent armament.

(2) One yacht type escort, mounting 3 machine guns and carrying 3 depth chargesShip(s) Sunk: Both targets were seen to sink

Details of Action

Four-inch gun. - Fired 59 rounds of high capacity and 24 rounds of common at an average range of about 1100 yards using radar ranges and radar spotting on the splashes. Local control at the gun. Estimate at least 40% hits. The HC was much more effective than the common as the latter passed right on through the target and unless it hit a vital spot did no immediate damage. Estimate 5 HC duds.

20 MM. - Fired 940 rounds of HEI and 469 rounds of HET. Expended two gun barrels, one trigger mechanism. The forward 20 MM jammed after the first burst and was out of action during most of the engagement. Ranges varied between 1500 and 100 yards. Incendiary ammunition is not very effective as such 50 caliber. Fired 505 rounds of TRA; 505 rounds AP; and 155 rounds of INC. Had considerable trouble with jams, due mostly to the poor construction of the metal links used for belting.

45 Caliber. - Fired 300 rounds of 45 caliber ball.

That's a lot of ammo expended just to sink 2 small vessels!

However, I do have to contend the statement that deck guns were only carried for defensive purposes. This was certainly not the case in either the US Navy or Kriegsmarine. In the case of the u-boats, the deck guns were removed as soon as the opportunities to use them offensively grew thin and the need for defense against attack increased.

Just the opposite happened on the fleet boats. As the opportunities to utilize deck guns increased and the need to act defensively decreased, the fleet boats increased their topside armament. The addition of a second 5" gun to many boats near the end of the war was certainly not a defensive decision.

[utops]

Again me... :nope:

Complete two patrols:

1.19.000BRT
2.10.000BRT

But, wheres my medals? ;)
I don`t get any awards for my patrol, maybe this is nothing, but i like to earn some of those U.S bling blings, so what can i do to fix it?

Thx.
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/1206/sh4og6.jpg

[AVGWarhawk]

Utops

Completing patrol areas and sinking ships=medals. Concerning medals and cannon Utops, perhaps stock game is your best bet.

[AVGWarhawk]

AVGWarhawk, ok knowledge is knowledge , but what about imagination?
You have right in some points, but Otto Kretshmer sunk cripled ship with deck gun and he used ~80 shels aimed for waterline.
Today i try sunk by deck gun liberty cargo after she take two torpedos...
~120 shels in the same point of water line and no effect... :roll:
There is chance to mod deck gun to be more harm for small and cripled merchants and still be to week to beat up DD`s ?
Another thing is why i lose fuel when my sub is on stop and battery is not recharging ?

Thx.


Good for Otto! It is not that RFB wants to completely disable the cannon but make it so it is not a primary weapon. This is exactly what will happen if it is left stock. I'm guilty of that also. Look at what Almighty Tallest posted. It can be done. BTW, are you using NSM? This makes it all the tougher and IMO to tough and that is includes torpedo hits as well. Unfortunate the cannon can not be modded to be more weak for cripples and stronger for DD. The game only allows one value. So, 120 shots and it was frustrating? You bet. But, was the cannon nice and stable? Every hit made it's mark? If we could add rocking and rolling to the cannon sight then perhaps the cannon shells could be made stronger. Letting the cannon be stock and just because some skippers sunk vessels with them as the reason does not make it right in the game when all that can be modded is how powerful the hit is. We can not model in windage, rolling and rocking. Other factors that make using the cannon harder. The cannon issue has been just that, a issue since SH3. Unfortnate it will continue to be a issue. Everyone wishes there were more that could be done with the cannon but alas, it is what it is.

Fuel.

Your sub is always running therefore it eats fuel. Fuel consumption can not be modded. Hard coded.

[AVGWarhawk]

Here is just one example of a fleet boat surface action AAR:

U.S.S. BATFISH
Gun Attack No. 1


[Patrol No. 3

Time: 1125-1300(I). Date: 1 July
Lat: 31°45', Long: 140°39'E

Target Data - Damage Inflicted

Sunk:

(1) One large trawler of about 500 tons. Japanese name and seal were painted on the side but not interpreted. He had a high bow, very high foremast, bridge amidships, diesel stack, raised living quarters aft and a high mainmast. Crates and drums stowed on deck - no apparent armament.

(2) One yacht type escort, mounting 3 machine guns and carrying 3 depth chargesShip(s) Sunk: Both targets were seen to sink

Details of Action

Four-inch gun. - Fired 59 rounds of high capacity and 24 rounds of common at an average range of about 1100 yards using radar ranges and radar spotting on the splashes. Local control at the gun. Estimate at least 40% hits. The HC was much more effective than the common as the latter passed right on through the target and unless it hit a vital spot did no immediate damage. Estimate 5 HC duds.

20 MM. - Fired 940 rounds of HEI and 469 rounds of HET. Expended two gun barrels, one trigger mechanism. The forward 20 MM jammed after the first burst and was out of action during most of the engagement. Ranges varied between 1500 and 100 yards. Incendiary ammunition is not very effective as such 50 caliber. Fired 505 rounds of TRA; 505 rounds AP; and 155 rounds of INC. Had considerable trouble with jams, due mostly to the poor construction of the metal links used for belting.

45 Caliber. - Fired 300 rounds of 45 caliber ball.

That's a lot of ammo expended just to sink 2 small vessels!

However, I do have to contend the statement that deck guns were only carried for defensive purposes. This was certainly not the case in either the US Navy or Kriegsmarine. In the case of the u-boats, the deck guns were removed as soon as the opportunities to use them offensively grew thin and the need for defense against attack increased.

Just the opposite happened on the fleet boats. As the opportunities to utilize deck guns increased and the need to act defensively decreased, the fleet boats increased their topside armament. The addition of a second 5" gun to many boats near the end of the war was certainly not a defensive decision.

Originally for defense and as you stated, later on for offense. It was found that saving torps for the big boys was prudent and using the deck gun for smaller vessels was the way to go. But, as much as anyone would like to post the accounts, there are too many variables that are not in the game concerning the cannons. Lets face it, stock cannon can sink a tanker with 10-15 shots. Where is the challenge? I do not suspect there will be anymore work done with the cannon in RFB because there is nothing else to change. This was the forgone conclusion with SH3 and it has carried over to SH4.

[CapnScurvy]

When using the deck guns in RFB, make sure you put able men in the slots, you can reduce your reload time considerably by putting men on the gun with high ratings in the weapons. (Usually torpedo specialists and gunnery specialists) Also, make sure you set the deck gun crew to fire at the water line of a ship.

Using a Gato with 3" deck gun, and aiming at the waterline I've sunk a few 4,000 ton freighters and one 10,000 ton tanker entirely with the 3" deck gun in RFB.

This is very true, and needs to be repeated. The Deck Gun and AA weapons NEED to be manned in RFB. Unlike the stock game where the guns are manned automaticly, RFB requires you to assign personnel to it. The better qualified, the faster the laod time, and greater the accuracy. This is for either letting the men fire the guns or you do it manually. The speed for loading the gun without proper personnel could take longer than a minute.

I don't want to get into the middle of this discussion of what is appropriate for the Deck Gun load out or it's effectiveness. AVGWarhawk you've been at it all day and I commend you for your knowledge and insite. I know there are folks that prefer to have things just one way, but balance has to be the key to good game play. Since RFB tries to be as realistic as possible (within the limits of the game) there are always different ways of looking at what is realistic. Frankly, take a look at the screen your using to read this post or play the game. Does this flat monitor come remotely close to what you see in real world depth and preception? Heck no!! Just keep in mind, we are poorly trying to immitate real life. :D

[AlmightyTallest]

I'm using NSM 4 Classic with my RFB setup, the problem I think is that with the shells being high explosive only in RFB, the graphics engine won't show the holes your making on an enemy ship with the deck guns as it did with AP rounds.

Just ignore the fact you don't see the damage, and make sure you hit the ship primarily on one side, all along and below the waterline with your shots, not just one area, she will take on a list and eventually sink.

[akdavis]

Here is just one example of a fleet boat surface action AAR:

U.S.S. BATFISH
Gun Attack No. 1


[Patrol No. 3

Time: 1125-1300(I). Date: 1 July
Lat: 31°45', Long: 140°39'E

Target Data - Damage Inflicted

Sunk:

(1) One large trawler of about 500 tons. Japanese name and seal were painted on the side but not interpreted. He had a high bow, very high foremast, bridge amidships, diesel stack, raised living quarters aft and a high mainmast. Crates and drums stowed on deck - no apparent armament.

(2) One yacht type escort, mounting 3 machine guns and carrying 3 depth chargesShip(s) Sunk: Both targets were seen to sink

Details of Action

Four-inch gun. - Fired 59 rounds of high capacity and 24 rounds of common at an average range of about 1100 yards using radar ranges and radar spotting on the splashes. Local control at the gun. Estimate at least 40% hits. The HC was much more effective than the common as the latter passed right on through the target and unless it hit a vital spot did no immediate damage. Estimate 5 HC duds.

20 MM. - Fired 940 rounds of HEI and 469 rounds of HET. Expended two gun barrels, one trigger mechanism. The forward 20 MM jammed after the first burst and was out of action during most of the engagement. Ranges varied between 1500 and 100 yards. Incendiary ammunition is not very effective as such 50 caliber. Fired 505 rounds of TRA; 505 rounds AP; and 155 rounds of INC. Had considerable trouble with jams, due mostly to the poor construction of the metal links used for belting.

45 Caliber. - Fired 300 rounds of 45 caliber ball.

That's a lot of ammo expended just to sink 2 small vessels!

However, I do have to contend the statement that deck guns were only carried for defensive purposes. This was certainly not the case in either the US Navy or Kriegsmarine. In the case of the u-boats, the deck guns were removed as soon as the opportunities to use them offensively grew thin and the need for defense against attack increased.

Just the opposite happened on the fleet boats. As the opportunities to utilize deck guns increased and the need to act defensively decreased, the fleet boats increased their topside armament. The addition of a second 5" gun to many boats near the end of the war was certainly not a defensive decision.

Originally for defense and as you stated, later on for offense. It was found that saving torps for the big boys was prudent and using the deck gun for smaller vessels was the way to go. But, as much as anyone would like to post the accounts, there are too many variables that are not in the game concerning the cannons. Lets face it, stock cannon can sink a tanker with 10-15 shots. Where is the challenge? I do not suspect there will be anymore work done with the cannon in RFB because there is nothing else to change. This was the forgone conclusion with SH3 and it has carried over to SH4.

Well, when you speak of "originally for defense" are you referring to US Navy doctrine at some point before the war? Certainly this was not the case with the Kriegsmarine given their u-boat experience in WWI, where the deck gun was the primary offensive weapon and accounted for more ships sunk than torpedoes. Doesn't really matter, but I don't think history points to the dismissal of topside armament as unimportant.

Anyways, I do think there are two areas that would offer the potential for further improvements, but neither concerns the stats of the guns themselves as they stand (which I think are fine).

1. If the problems could be overcome, the work started with the New Real Deck Gun mod would do much to add realism and lessen the need to artificially limit ROF to simulate something that currently doesn't exist in the game.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=133349&page=2&highlight=Real+Deck

2. Any improvements to the realism of ship damage models has an indirect benefit on the realism of employing surface weapons. Unfortunately, I don't think the lack of fire damage can be overcome, which is probably one of the main causes of the widely different results that could occur during a surface engagement. Sinking a ship, even a small boat, by surface fire through flooding alone was extremely difficult, but if secondary fires could be touched off (as was common with the application of incendiary and HE munitions), a ship's destruction could be far more certain and rapid.

[AVGWarhawk]

Good point AKD. Did Tater get this working? If so, LukeFF who has been working on the cannon should take a look at that.

[AVGWarhawk]

I'm using NSM 4 Classic with my RFB setup, the problem I think is that with the shells being high explosive only in RFB, the graphics engine won't show the holes your making on an enemy ship with the deck guns as it did with AP rounds.

Just ignore the fact you don't see the damage, and make sure you hit the ship primarily on one side, all along and below the waterline with your shots, not just one area, she will take on a list and eventually sink.

You can sink a ship but I believe some are concerned that it takes 120 rounds. What is your average shots taken to sink a vessel?

[utops]

Utops

Completing patrol areas and sinking ships=medals. Concerning medals and cannon Utops, perhaps stock game is your best bet.

If that was true, i`ll be never show up in SH4 Mods Workshop subforum.
Just all that hard things of RFB are new for me. (Earlier i playing SH3 with GWX and SH4 with TMO)
In the presentation of this mod they not mention about solusion to make uber deck gun less uber in that why it is .
Award system changes also...
Ok, so when i get it now im happy , because my instalation of RFB is not buggy and everything is ok. ( That was a point of all that questions - I didin`t know is every thing ok )
Thx for explaining

-t

[Nephandus]

The deck gun has been a issue since SH3. Rate of fire and strong damage....who needs torpedoes? It has been castrated because the gun was more defensive then offensive. Personally if I could throw it off my boat I would. What does not happen with the cannon, it does not account for setting up range nor account for rough seas. It is just to easy if left in stock condition.

The shells offered are what was in use and available during the year you are playing. Just click on the available shell and the loading will start. The reason for this is the subs did not patrol with the cannon loaded. The shells were normally stowed in the sail and had to be retrieved with every use.

Bow wake, RFB did not do anything to files concerning bow wakes and other enviromental things. Sounds like a stock issue.


Mod anything you like within RFB. If you come up with something interesting to change, offer it up! Still very much a work in progress.

Actually I tried shelling a small freighter with the deckgun with the more historical rate of fire. Still took me 100 shells to sink that thing and quite some time. A torpedo would have done that in 60 seconds.... plus I was lucky that the freighter was unarmed.

As for the ammo loading... what you say is true, but I would expect my crew to load that thing if I order them to man it.... ;-)

The wake issue occurs only with one destroyer and that one was modded in by RSRD. Guess noone over there has noticed it so far.

[AlmightyTallest]

Well, for a 4,000 ton class vessel, it's taking anywhere from 40 to 60 rounds to sink one using the tactics I described. On one patrol with the Gato I sunk 3 ships in the 2,000 to 4,000 ton class with the deck gun before running out of ammo.

For the 10,000 ton tanker it took pretty much all my ammo, which seems reasonable to me, it's only a 3" deck gun and during the war nothing over 4,000 tons was engaged with the gun if I remember correctly. Plus I never tangle with anything on the surface that has a gun of it's own or I stay out of range if possible.

[Paajtor]

I want to thank you guys for all the support provided...thats great.:up:

[AVGWarhawk]

Utops

Completing patrol areas and sinking ships=medals. Concerning medals and cannon Utops, perhaps stock game is your best bet.

If that was true, i`ll be never show up in SH4 Mods Workshop subforum.
Just all that hard things of RFB are new for me. (Earlier i playing SH3 with GWX and SH4 with TMO)
In the presentation of this mod they not mention about solusion to make uber deck gun less uber in that why it is .
Award system changes also...
Ok, so when i get it now im happy , because my instalation of RFB is not buggy and everything is ok. ( That was a point of all that questions - I didin`t know is every thing ok )
Thx for explaining

-t

Just remember that RFB is still evolving and question/concerns are welcome. Sometimes these questions get the guys working on RFB to look at some files a bit differently and come up with a better solution. Somethings just suck and not much that can be done. SH3 with GWX is awesome and has come a long way. Duci's TMO is also awesome. I hear nothing but good things about both mods. RFB is working to make it as real as it can possibly but also keep it interesting. I agree with you on the cannon. I wish there were more perimeters and outside forces affecting cannon usage but alas there is not much. Swdw and LukeFF have played with it quite a bit. Taters idea posted above looks very interesting.

As far as the award system in the stock game the medals are handed out like candy. In reality, they were not. These medals were earned the hard way. Certainly medals are reachable. Keep in mind, the game is more concerned that you complete the assigned task. This is were the real score keeping is kept. It looks to me that tonnage is not really looked at. I could be wrong but I believe I'm correct. I have done many patrols and sunk just a few ships but completed 5-6 patrol areas and still received a medal or new construction.

Watch this thread, RFB has more coming. Also, Lurker has started really digging into RSRD and adding some great stuff. My one hope is Lurker continued to refine RSRD and he has started.

[AVGWarhawk]

Well, for a 4,000 ton class vessel, it's taking anywhere from 40 to 60 rounds to sink one using the tactics I described. On one patrol with the Gato I sunk 3 ships in the 2,000 to 4,000 ton class with the deck gun before running out of ammo.

For the 10,000 ton tanker it took pretty much all my ammo, which seems reasonable to me, it's only a 3" deck gun and during the war nothing over 4,000 tons was engaged with the gun if I remember correctly. Plus I never tangle with anything on the surface that has a gun of it's own or I stay out of range if possible.

I will buy your engagments as accurate as it can be for the game. 40-60 rounds seems like a believable number. A tanker IMO should take a lot of rounds. Some one posted ships not catching fire and providing yet more damage which is another problem concerning the cannon. This aspect is not factored into cannon usage and it would be nice to see it happen but I do not think that is possible.

[AVGWarhawk]

The deck gun has been a issue since SH3. Rate of fire and strong damage....who needs torpedoes? It has been castrated because the gun was more defensive then offensive. Personally if I could throw it off my boat I would. What does not happen with the cannon, it does not account for setting up range nor account for rough seas. It is just to easy if left in stock condition.

The shells offered are what was in use and available during the year you are playing. Just click on the available shell and the loading will start. The reason for this is the subs did not patrol with the cannon loaded. The shells were normally stowed in the sail and had to be retrieved with every use.

Bow wake, RFB did not do anything to files concerning bow wakes and other enviromental things. Sounds like a stock issue.


Mod anything you like within RFB. If you come up with something interesting to change, offer it up! Still very much a work in progress.

Actually I tried shelling a small freighter with the deckgun with the more historical rate of fire. Still took me 100 shells to sink that thing and quite some time. A torpedo would have done that in 60 seconds.... plus I was lucky that the freighter was unarmed.

As for the ammo loading... what you say is true, but I would expect my crew to load that thing if I order them to man it.... ;-)

The wake issue occurs only with one destroyer and that one was modded in by RSRD. Guess noone over there has noticed it so far.

Ammo loading, as Almighty Tallest said, put in your gunners or torpedo men and you will see faster loading times. Also, your men get better with each patrol. Load times will decrease.

RSRD is historical traffic and did not touch bow wakes and such. Probably a stock issue or your card has some trouble rendering the wake. Not sure on that one.

[AVGWarhawk]

I want to thank you guys for all the support provided...thats great.:up:

Not a problem. Always wanted to keep it open and have all-comers be a part in one form or another. There is more to come for RFB. Swdw and LukeFF like to at least get something out to all who would like to play RFB. Some more goodies are just around the corner. It gets you involved all be it major or minor in making RFB as good as it can get.

[kylesplanet]

Something I really love about RFB 1.5 is all the new sound work. It adds so much to the game and the immersion factor. I'm thinking of investing into a new set of Bose QC3 headphones but if I put in anymore playing time, my lawn is gonna grow over top of the house and my wife is gonna strangle me. :p

[Weather-guesser]

Greetings fellow RFB users...Let me pick your brains since I have been experimenting with this for a few hours:

Istallation,
NSM
Latest PE
Latest RFB
RSRDC
RSRD patch 2
My own mixed sound MOD

My problem is I was testing different damage sounds by taking my s-class down to crush depth...and whenever I enable any other sound MOD, I get the old problem (from stock) of the crew in the control room getting black patches all over them after the lights flicker the first time.

This only happens when I enable different wave file sounds from other MODS. Speech and other sound folders do not cause this. And RFB without changes is fine and does not have the black faces after the lights flicker. I have tried ROW sounds and poul-MOD sounds, even droped in sound files from TMO just to see what happens with the same result of black faces after the lights flicker.

I found it odd that sound files, even if I changed just one, would have this affect on the crew in RFB...any ideas on how to change the wave sound files I want to put in RFB so this wont happen? Thanks guys. :88)

EDIT: By the way AVGWARHAWK if you see this...your internal sub sound you came out with doesnt have this effect to RFB when I use it. So I wonder what is different with your wave file compared to the other wave files I am trying?

[akdavis]

RSRD is historical traffic and did not touch bow wakes and such. Probably a stock issue or your card has some trouble rendering the wake. Not sure on that one.

Momi (NPB_Momi) is a "new" ship added by RSRD. The problem likely lies there, not stock or RFB, but it has been brought in the RSRD thread.

[RFB Team]

You have it slightly wrong there, sport.
If you aiming at the same point, you end up with a grouping of holes close to one another, and at most 2 compartments will be flooded, This does not amount to a sinking ship, the way it's currently modded. This is probably close to RL as the ships did have watertight doors.

If you want to sink the ship, you must punch holes along the whole length of the ship, at the waterline, so it looks like a sieve.
:)

Very well said, thank you. Essentially, what we've done in modding the deck gun's effectiveness is simulate the enemy ship's ability to patch up the holes/close watertight doors to stop the flooding. Put a few holes in one spot, and the ship's crew likely isn't going to have a problem stopping the flooding. Spread out your shots along the waterline, and you begin to overwhelm the crew's ability to stop the flooding. It works out really well that way.

[RFB Team]

No, he wrote that the 3" gun was originally designed as an anti-aircraft gun. I don't know about American guns, but the 12pdr (3") British gun was originally for battleships to use against destroyers. They went to a 4" and finally 6" gun before WW1 because the 3" and then 4" because those guns were pretty much useless against the destroyers of that day - and they only displaced about 900 tons..

See here, Steve:

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_3-50_mk10-22.htm

This is the deck gun mounted on fleet subs at the war's beginning.

[RFB Team]

When using the deck guns in RFB, make sure you put able men in the slots, you can reduce your reload time considerably by putting men on the gun with high ratings in the weapons. (Usually torpedo specialists and gunnery specialists)

Engine men also work well, due to their good Mechanical ratings.

[LukeFF]

Something I really love about RFB 1.5 is all the new sound work. It adds so much to the game and the immersion factor. I'm thinking of investing into a new set of Bose QC3 headphones but if I put in anymore playing time, my lawn is gonna grow over top of the house and my wife is gonna strangle me. :p

:rotfl:

Glad you like the sounds! They've come from a variety of sources and really do spice up things, IMO.

[Rockin Robbins]

Good point AKD. Did Tater get this working? If so, LukeFF who has been working on the cannon should take a look at that.

Hey folks! The New Real Deck Gun is here (http://files.filefront.com/New+Real+Deck+Gun7z/;10203663;/fileinfo.html). Our modders are not happy with it yet. Its reload speed is too fast because this version is for testing only. But it is VASTLY better than anything else I have seen.

The RFB team continues to work to make the deck gun even harder than people are complaining about now!:rotfl:Good job guys! Deck guns are for sampans and target practice on floating mines. Otherwise they just make noise and put deck crews in danger.

[AVGWarhawk]

@WG

EDIT: By the way AVGWARHAWK if you see this...your internal sub sound you came out with doesnt have this effect to RFB when I use it. So I wonder what is different with your wave file compared to the other wave files I am trying?

Not sure why it does not work for you. It was a wave file taken off a sound effect site. I changed the name so the game would recognize it and it worked for me.

[utops]

Agree with all RFB soundlikers :yep:
Thx for that good quality ...

Anybody hear sirens singing? When I passing Pacific submerged i swear i can hear some sort of female singing :)
If tht is only illusion ... i must say it is very nice.

[sunbeam_cz]

I'm using NSM 4 Classic with my RFB setup, the problem I think is that with the shells being high explosive only in RFB, the graphics engine won't show the holes your making on an enemy ship with the deck guns as it did with AP rounds.

Just ignore the fact you don't see the damage, and make sure you hit the ship primarily on one side, all along and below the waterline with your shots, not just one area, she will take on a list and eventually sink.
so it´s just a graphics problem?? RFB team could you PLEASE look at it and try to repair it? I wil be gratefull!
maybe contacting NSM 4 chief modder isn´t bad idea too.:yep:

[Trout]

Just installed this and am having a blast. I do have the problem though with the m14 torp that veers off when fired against a stationary target. Where is the patch for that?

Also, any suggested mods that would fix the fire and smoke from burning ships - the way it races across the sky in high winds?

Trout

[CapnScurvy]

Just installed this and am having a blast. I do have the problem though with the m14 torp that veers off when fired against a stationary target. Where is the patch for that?


Trout

The temporary RFB 1.5 060508 download site can be found here (http://files.filefront.com/RFB+v15+060308rar/;10482319;/fileinfo.html) which includes the following fixs:

1. A fix for the depth charge capacity and availability of several of the escort ships (DC Patch 052808).

2. A reworked Radar Bearing dial for manually focusing the beam.

3. Changed the graphics for the main Deck Gun and smaller armaments ammunition, to better show what your using. Both the American and German sides were modified.

4. Added two Word documents. One is a revised instruction for the SCAF mod that is used within RFB 1.5 for finding manual range with the Stadimeter. The second is a corrected RFB Keyboard Command list.

5. Added the optional JSGME compatible Metric Nomographs for both American and German sides.

No other previous patches dated prior to 060308 need to be added. This version is cumulative of all other fix's.

Sorry for not having this latest revised version up on the first post of this thread. Not all of the RFB Team members have access to the thread editing. When the latest version was put up on Filefront, Subsim decided to go "off air" for a couple of days and we just haven't caught up the first post.

[RFB Team]

Just installed this and am having a blast. I do have the problem though with the m14 torp that veers off when fired against a stationary target. Where is the patch for that?

It was fixed and uploaded weeks ago.

[RFB Team]

Just ignore the fact you don't see the damage, and make sure you hit the ship primarily on one side, all along and below the waterline with your shots, not just one area, she will take on a list and eventually sink.
so it´s just a graphics problem?? RFB team could you PLEASE look at it and try to repair it? I wil be gratefull!
maybe contacting NSM 4 chief modder isn´t bad idea too.:yep:

No, it's a hard-coded issue. Nothing we can fix short of the devs changing the minimum hitpoint value at which a shell or torpedo will make a visual hole.

[RFB Team]

Link has been updated on the first page for the 060308 version of RFB. This update entails the changes CapnScurvy listed up above.

[sunbeam_cz]

Just ignore the fact you don't see the damage, and make sure you hit the ship primarily on one side, all along and below the waterline with your shots, not just one area, she will take on a list and eventually sink. so it´s just a graphics problem?? RFB team could you PLEASE look at it and try to repair it? I wil be gratefull!
maybe contacting NSM 4 chief modder isn´t bad idea too.:yep:
No, it's a hard-coded issue. Nothing we can fix short of the devs changing the minimum hitpoint value at which a shell or torpedo will make a visual hole.
no visual holes?? hmm
so I must shoot and wait till a boat starts too hang over... or is there another way how could I find out that I made a hole with my deck gun??

thx for support buddy

[Wilcke]

Just ignore the fact you don't see the damage, and make sure you hit the ship primarily on one side, all along and below the waterline with your shots, not just one area, she will take on a list and eventually sink. so it´s just a graphics problem?? RFB team could you PLEASE look at it and try to repair it? I wil be gratefull!
maybe contacting NSM 4 chief modder isn´t bad idea too.:yep:
No, it's a hard-coded issue. Nothing we can fix short of the devs changing the minimum hitpoint value at which a shell or torpedo will make a visual hole. no visual holes?? hmm
so I must shoot and wait till a boat starts too hang over... or is there another way how could I find out that I made a hole with my deck gun??

thx for support buddy
Long story short, use the torpedo, then if you need to finish something off and its safe get in close 500 yards and use the deck gun, it will take a while but you will get the "message" that the ship is going down.

Happy Hunting!:ping:

[Trout]

Thanks. Does this just overite the last 1.5 version? Do I need to start a new camp?

Link has been updated on the first page for the 060308 version of RFB. This update entails the changes CapnScurvy listed up above.

[AVGWarhawk]

Thanks. Does this just overite the last 1.5 version? Do I need to start a new camp?

Link has been updated on the first page for the 060308 version of RFB. This update entails the changes CapnScurvy listed up above.

It would be best to install when you arrive back to your port. No need to start a new career if you do that.

[akdavis]

Just ignore the fact you don't see the damage, and make sure you hit the ship primarily on one side, all along and below the waterline with your shots, not just one area, she will take on a list and eventually sink. so it´s just a graphics problem?? RFB team could you PLEASE look at it and try to repair it? I wil be gratefull!
maybe contacting NSM 4 chief modder isn´t bad idea too.:yep:
No, it's a hard-coded issue. Nothing we can fix short of the devs changing the minimum hitpoint value at which a shell or torpedo will make a visual hole.
no visual holes?? hmm
so I must shoot and wait till a boat starts too hang over... or is there another way how could I find out that I made a hole with my deck gun??

thx for support buddy

Do just as they did in real life. Shoot at your target and observe the resulting behavior. The ship is not sunk until it sinks. They did not put X number of holes into a ship and then go on their merry way.

[Egon01]

Hello

I have question about hydrophone sounds. I wanted to try RFB coz I have played with TMO most time. I was suprised when I went to hydrophone station and I heard very strange noises in my headphones when I located target. I mean her engine sound. It sounded like someone splash with hand into water. I am not expert in all this sub stuff but I want to ask if there another sound of engine when you use hydrophones or there is something wrong with my RFB mod ? Or maybe this is "real" sound ?

Cheers

[RFB Team]

I have question about hydrophone sounds. I wanted to try RFB coz I have played with TMO most time. I was suprised when I went to hydrophone station and I heard very strange noises in my headphones when I located target. I mean her engine sound. It sounded like someone splash with hand into water. I am not expert in all this sub stuff but I want to ask if there another sound of engine when you use hydrophones or there is something wrong with my RFB mod ? Or maybe this is "real" sound ?

Those are real recordings taken from the sonar used aboard American fleet subs during WWII. They were all taken from www.hnsa.org (http://www.hnsa.org), from this page: http://www.hnsa.org/sound/index.htm#jp.

[AVGWarhawk]

I have question about hydrophone sounds. I wanted to try RFB coz I have played with TMO most time. I was suprised when I went to hydrophone station and I heard very strange noises in my headphones when I located target. I mean her engine sound. It sounded like someone splash with hand into water. I am not expert in all this sub stuff but I want to ask if there another sound of engine when you use hydrophones or there is something wrong with my RFB mod ? Or maybe this is "real" sound ?

Those are real recordings taken from the sonar used aboard American fleet subs during WWII. They were all taken from www.hnsa.org (http://www.hnsa.org), from this page: http://www.hnsa.org/sound/index.htm#jp.

Real sounds! :up: Probably the one best part of the sound mod LukeFF put together. :D

[vanjast]

Hello

I have question about hydrophone sounds. I wanted to try RFB coz I have played with TMO most time. I was suprised when I went to hydrophone station and I heard very strange noises in my headphones when I located target. I mean her engine sound. It sounded like someone splash with hand into water. I am not expert in all this sub stuff but I want to ask if there another sound of engine when you use hydrophones or there is something wrong with my RFB mod ? Or maybe this is "real" sound ?

Cheers
RFB replaces the sound files with real hydrophone recordings, but the problem comes in when the SH4 engine 'superimposes' another waveform on top of this sound file making it sound messy. This superimposed waveform produces prop-shaft rev sounds on the original sound file, but as the mod file has these rev sounds already, it becomes a double whammy... :)

[kylesplanet]

I have a question about crew promotions. I have just pulled into port in Perth from my second patrol. Where the promotions normally are, it says that my sub has the maximum amount of petty officers. I know that there's a limit but are there just not any promotions or do I need to cut some of the petty officers loose before I can hand out any promotions? I know in R/L skippers lost around a third of the crew.

BTW, the crew management in RFB is light years away from the stock set-up. With everything this mod has added, it is a completely different game than what Ubisoft offers out of the box and IMO, it has really made a pretty good game excellent. :up:

[RFB Team]

I have a question about crew promotions. I have just pulled into port in Perth from my second patrol. Where the promotions normally are, it says that my sub has the maximum amount of petty officers. I know that there's a limit but are there just not any promotions or do I need to cut some of the petty officers loose before I can hand out any promotions? I know in R/L skippers lost around a third of the crew.

To promote sailors to the Petty Officer ranks you will have to remove petty officers already on your boat, and then you can hand out promotions.

BTW, the crew management in RFB is light years away from the stock set-up. With everything this mod has added, it is a completely different game than what Ubisoft offers out of the box and IMO, it has really made a pretty good game excellent. :up:

Glad you like it! :)

[RFB Team]

Just to put this out here as well: we are always looking for talented modders and testers to help us out with making RFB that much better. The last round of releases showed that extensive testing is needed to make sure bugs like the torpedo gyro angle error get squashed before releasing it to the public. Currently a number of our testers and developers are away from the forums, thus making it all the more important that we recruit new testers to the team. Check out our forums at http://forum.kickinbak.com/index.php?sid=7a82042423185c20ab647a9120c08614 if you want to help out. Thanks!

[vanjast]

Maybe the RFB team can help out with the Kickinbak forum.

I registered, and then went to login and it says I'm Banned :o :o
I'm a bit confuzzed here.. I haven't posted yet..

Does somebody not like me.. I might get a personality complex.. :lol:

[AVGWarhawk]

Maybe the RFB team can help out with the Kickinbak forum.

I registered, and then went to login and it says I'm Banned :o :o
I'm a bit confuzzed here.. I haven't posted yet..

Does somebody not like me.. I might get a personality complex.. :lol:

Have you posted before? Swdw has to approve the party who wants to join. This is to keep out the spammers who want to sell Nokia phones. Anyway, work has got Swdw super busy so you may not get a response right away.

[vanjast]

No, I didn't get a single post in (not that I remember.. it's been a month or so, and I've been really busy in RL)
I registered, got the acceptance email a day or two later. I then went to the login page a few days after this, and it says I'm banned, and must contact the admin... I cannot even see any admin links... :(

[AVGWarhawk]

No, I didn't get a single post in.
I registered, got the acceptance email a day or two later. I then went to the login page a few days after this, and it says I'm banned, and must contact the admin... I cannot even see any admin links... :(

Not to worry, Swdw and LukeFF should see this post and get you sorted.

[LukeFF]

Maybe the RFB team can help out with the Kickinbak forum.

I registered, and then went to login and it says I'm Banned :o :o
I'm a bit confuzzed here.. I haven't posted yet..

Does somebody not like me.. I might get a personality complex.. :lol:

Can you try it again? I looked at your account, and all looks good to me.

[vanjast]

Thanks Luke.. will try later when I get home. :)

[RFB Team]

Hey guys,

Just to confirm, we are indeed working on two major mods that will do a lot to revolutionize damage modeling both to ships and subs alike. The former could be considered a successor to NSM, and early test results from it are very promising. The latter will be like nothing you've seen yet in SH4. All of this is being made possible in large part by Observer, whom, as many of you might know, is known for his (and Der Teddy Bär's) excellent NYGM mod for SH3.

Good times, they are a'coming! :yep:

[Fish40]

Can't wait!! Thanks guys for all you're hard work and continued effort:up: The truth is, I simply refuse to play this sim without this mod:yep: Thanks again!

[THE_MASK]

same here:D

[vanjast]

Will these super-mods be a new RFB install, or will they be seperate mods? Could you give an indication of which mods are coming up.. I think there's still one more RFB update, plus these newer mods Thanks :)

[Fish40]

Will these super-mods be a new RFB install, or will they be seperate mods? Could you give an indication of which mods are coming up.. I think there's still one more RFB update, plus these newer mods Thanks :)




Sounds like a whole new RFB version:yep: It'll have everything that we have now, plus all the new stuff!

[Trout]

THere is a tonne of work that could be done to improve the damage modeling of the subs.

1) repair time is completley unrealistic
2) rarely, as a skipper, do you have to change your tactics on the basis of damage you have recieved. Consider:

-damage to the hull props or planes does not make you noisier under water
-permament battery damage hardly ever happens
-depth keeping seems unaffected by damage
-there is no damage to the air conditioning/ scrubbing that would make it harder to stay long underwater

Basically, taking damage in this game should somtimes create real challenges for the skipper. MOre often than not, you die, or you fix your problems pretty quick - there is no in-between.

Trout

[Fish40]

May I be so bold as to make a request? I would love to see this implemented (perhaps as an optional install file) in RFB for those who also play a U Boat campaign: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=135184

I use this mod in SH3, and it adds a ton to the immersion scale. Would really like to see it included here if possible. As far as I know, the tools represented in this mod are historic. What better place to have them then in a realistic as possible mod such as RFB! Thanks..

[RFB Team]

Will these super-mods be a new RFB install, or will they be seperate mods? Could you give an indication of which mods are coming up.. I think there's still one more RFB update, plus these newer mods Thanks :)

It will be an all-new RFB install. This version will be kind of an interim one, but we believe the best way to keep people interested in the mod is to release updates as often as is reasonably possible. This new version won't include the new submarine damage model (things are still being hashed out with it), but it is coming along well, and it's likely to make the next release of RFB after this one currently planned.

[RFB Team]

May I be so bold as to make a request? I would love to see this implemented (perhaps as an optional install file) in RFB for those who also play a U Boat campaign: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=135184

I use this mod in SH3, and it adds a ton to the immersion scale. Would really like to see it included here if possible. As far as I know, the tools represented in this mod are historic. What better place to have them then in a realistic as possible mod such as RFB! Thanks..

It's on the to-do list, for sure.

[Fish40]

May I be so bold as to make a request? I would love to see this implemented (perhaps as an optional install file) in RFB for those who also play a U Boat campaign: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=135184

I use this mod in SH3, and it adds a ton to the immersion scale. Would really like to see it included here if possible. As far as I know, the tools represented in this mod are historic. What better place to have them then in a realistic as possible mod such as RFB! Thanks..
It's on the to-do list, for sure.




Thank you, thank you, thank you!!:/\\k:

[DrBeast]

Will the new sinking mechanism include a keel zone, a la NSM4?

[RFB Team]

Will the new sinking mechanism include a keel zone, a la NSM4?

Most likely, yes.

[DrBeast]

Will the new sinking mechanism include a keel zone, a la NSM4?
Most likely, yes.

Bear in mind, then, that this will work just fine on ships loaded with plain Freight cargo. But, load them with Ammo or Fuel, and you'll get ships breaking in half with a single torpedo hit. Stock merchants and (I'm hazarding a guess here) RFB and TM merchants only carry Freight, but in RSRDC roughly 1 out of 4 ships carries either Ammo or Fuel. Just a heads-up ;)

[RFB Team]

Bear in mind, then, that this will work just fine on ships loaded with plain Freight cargo. But, load them with Ammo or Fuel, and you'll get ships breaking in half with a single torpedo hit. Stock merchants and (I'm hazarding a guess here) RFB and TM merchants only carry Freight, but in RSRDC roughly 1 out of 4 ships carries either Ammo or Fuel. Just a heads-up ;)

I'm sure we'll get it all worked out. Observer knows his stuff when it comes to ship damage modeling.

[DrBeast]

Bear in mind, then, that this will work just fine on ships loaded with plain Freight cargo. But, load them with Ammo or Fuel, and you'll get ships breaking in half with a single torpedo hit. Stock merchants and (I'm hazarding a guess here) RFB and TM merchants only carry Freight, but in RSRDC roughly 1 out of 4 ships carries either Ammo or Fuel. Just a heads-up ;)
I'm sure we'll get it all worked out. Observer knows his stuff when it comes to ship damage modeling.

Just what I wanted to hear :up:

[Manjushaka]

I can't get this mod to work!!!!:stare:

Can someone pls tell me to exactly WHICH folder to unzip to? and in WHICH folder should the mod folder and JSGME be?

[Egon01]

Hey

I have big problem with saves after installing RFB. I use v 1.5. I made few tests and it happens when I use RFB mod. Everytime when I save the game and I am in middle of ocean and than I try to load this save strange things happens. Example: I save game with heavy storm and when I load this save there is nice weather:sunny: but the worst thing is that after restart the game I can't load this save, game crashes. I usually save the game when I find contact with my hydro and before I start intercepting it. Another issue happens during intercetping. When I start drawing lines, angles etc. on the map and save the game, than when I load this save map is clear, no lines, no angles....:o Anyone know what is wrong and how I can fix it ?

Mods which I use:

RFB v1.5_060308
RSRDC_RFBv15_V395_RC5
ROW Pacific_Environments 3.3

Thank you

PS Sorry for my english, it's not my first language.

[Egon01]

I can't get this mod to work!!!!:stare:

Can someone pls tell me to exactly WHICH folder to unzip to? and in WHICH folder should the mod folder and JSGME be?


After installing JSGME, make folder MODS in your main SH4 directory. Than unzip RFB to this directory (example: /SH4/MODS/RFB). Than run JSGME and just install the mod.

[Manjushaka]

Ok I captured a screenshot. This is where my MODS folder and JSGME is. Is it where they're suppose to be? Even after activating the mod, it still wouldn't work. One thing I didn't do, is reinstalling the game. I didn't think that was neccessary as this will be my first mod ever installed on SH4.

[Egon01]

Hmm...I don't see any screnshoot..

[Manjushaka]

Hmm...I don't see any screnshoot..\

Yeah that's because the plan was to include it in the next post. You weren't suppose to see any screenshots in the previous one. :oops:

http://www.geocities.com/erotika_please/Clipboard01.jpg

[Fish40]

If I'm not mistaken, it looks like you're useing a 1.4 version of the mod. You say you have version 1.5 of the game? you should be useing the latest RFB, with the link on the main page of this thread. I have no problems with this mod, and I've saved a couple of games doing everything you're NOT supposed to do while saveing a game. Still no problems. Check your mod version first:yep:

[LukeFF]

If I'm not mistaken, it looks like you're useing a 1.4 version of the mod. You say you have version 1.5 of the game? you should be useing the latest RFB, with the link on the main page of this thread. I have no problems with this mod, and I've saved a couple of games doing everything you're NOT supposed to do while saveing a game. Still no problems. Check your mod version first:yep:

I see he has the gu.exe icon there, which would indicate he has 1.5 installed. That's why it pays to read the stickies. ;)

[Fincuan]

gu.exe came with 1.4. One of those things they put into that patch "to prepare" for 1.5.

[AVGWarhawk]

gu.exe came with 1.4. One of those things they put into that patch "to prepare" for 1.5.

I thought the GU.exe came with the 1.5 add on.

[Fincuan]

It came with 1.4, because the first thing I did after installing the patch was to redirect the shortcut back to SH4.exe :). An easy way to check this is to look at one of those "Changed files between 1.3 & 1.4" lists(such as this (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=125838&highlight=gu.exe)). I bet gu.exe is mentioned there as a new file.

edit: Ok the Filefront link is dead, but anyway gu.exe is mentioned on the first page of that thread

[Manjushaka]

No, I'm using 1.4

[msalama]

Eh... just a wee question if you don't mind gents :oops:

I'm a total n00b as regards fleetboats and there's something that really puzzles me a lot. RFB seems to be an excellent mod otherwise, but my Salmon starts to get hull damage at 300ft already :o I'm using NSM4, RFB 1.5 and RSRD for RFB v1.5.

Is this the way it really was, or do I have a mod conflict or something here? The redline, FWIW, seems to be somewhere around the 400ft mark or so...

S!

PS. All mods were installed as instructed in the first post of this thread.

[jono327]

msalama,

just wanted to let you know that I had a similar problem in a Sargo. I hit about 200 ft. and then went to periscope depth. About 2 minutes after I got to PD, I started to take damage and was crushed.

I'm running version 1.5, ROW PE 3.3, RFB (latest), and RSRD (latest)
(In order of activation)

-I'm not 100% sure, but I think it's a problem with 1.5.
-I read on the NSM post that it's not compatable with 1.5(UBM)

-I'm testing a few things. Tell me, did you crash dive?
-Any saves submerged?

[msalama]

Cheers Jono :up:

1) I've just installed the U-boat addon plus RFB, etc. and have tested this a couple of times now. The Salmon starts to come apart at 300ft regardless of how I get there.

2) No saves whatsoever, just a simple test mission with me trying to evade 2 veteran-skilled destroyers. And no DC hits either, mind you - I get there with 100% hull integrity and end up cracking the boat at 300ft every time :o

S!

[msalama]

And oh yeah, gotta try w/ NSM disabled too. Just a moment, I'll get back to you in a heartbeat...

[msalama]

Yup, the same thing happens with RFB_V1.5_060308 only too. The damage starts at about 310ft and ends up crushing the boat eventually.

And yah, junked those Akizukis too so ain't nobody but us chickens there now :up:

[jono327]

Honestly, I think it's the sub damage model of RFB. The patrol I talked about in the previous post, my boat was damaged from depth charges(not sure how much). I wasn't keeping a watchful eye on my hull int. either.

-RFB tests with undamaged subs:
:Sargo started to take damage at around 330/340 ft.
:Gato started to take damage at about 370 ft.

Was able to go to PD with no problem and only encountered 6-15 % total hull damage.

I was going by the red indicator on the depth meter as to what max depth would be. I know now that's a bad idea.

I'm very thrilled with this mod. Thanks goes to the RFB team for their hard work and effort. I'm delving into modding and hopefully will have something great to contribute.

[RFB Team]

Hey guys,

RFB 1.51 is up now for download! Check out the first thread for details.

[Schultzy]

I just finished a patrol, so this is a very well timed release! :D

Thanks very much guys! :up:

[RFB Team]

Hey guys,

Just to let you know, we have uploaded a patch for a problem encountered with the S-42 boats. If a player selected the S-42 for a campaign starting on June 15, 1943, they would have no conning tower. Enable this patch after RSRDC.

http://dodownload.filefront.com/10786854//3657593627f3350615648ffb923b83af477c3fb292035be8f3 ae9d0f7dbd03a72e639deb8fb24c13

[TimmyGT]

i guess GWX is breathin hard down ur necks...i for one am stiill playing 1.4 the idea of u-Boots in the Indian ocean doesnt intrigue me..not to mention paying for it...ya ya i know..its either sh4.. or three..not both

[RFB Team]

i guess GWX is breathin hard down ur necks...

Nope, we couldn't care less what GWX is doing. We have our own vision of what SH4 should be with RFB, and we will stick to it.

[SilentOtto]

...
TIMMY!!!!!

http://members.lycos.nl/juliel/hpbimg/timmy.gif



couldn't help it...

[Wilcke]

Plus, you are missing out on Lurkers' Monsun and Drum Beat Campaigns, great stuff. As for the rest..."meh". I am going fishing.

[MONOLITH]

Nope, we couldn't care less what GWX is doing. We have our own vision of what SH4 should be with RFB, and we will stick to it.


AMEN.

[lurker_hlb3]

Hey guys,

Just to let you know, we have uploaded a patch for a problem encountered with the S-42 boats. If a player selected the S-42 for a campaign starting on June 15, 1943, they would have no conning tower. Enable this patch after RSRDC.




This patch is no longer required. New patch for RSRDC is up.

[cgjimeneza]

i guess GWX is breathin hard down ur necks...

Nope, we couldn't care less what GWX is doing. We have our own vision of what SH4 should be with RFB, and we will stick to it.

Here you are wrong... it seems to me that you are saying that the effort of GWX 2.1 modders has no importance.... they have done a job as great as the RFB or TMO or Lurker, plus the other independent modders.

For my part, I say thanks and Horay! 3X, if it werent for them we would be running vanilla sh3 and sh4 with what UBI puts out and a game modded by them is no longer a GAME but an imersive SIM:hmm:

[Rockin Robbins]

I believe that when GWX for SH4 comes out with its refusal to conform to JSGME installation/deinstallation procedures, people will be faced with losing the mods they love to play GWX and not being easily able to go back. They will conclude that GWX just isn't worth the hassle if it can't play fair with the other mods.

Now you can switch out TMO and slide in RFB in five minutes, restart the game and go. You can kill RSRD and swap in Tater's campaign layers the same way, at will and with ease. If you want to find targets galore with your U-Boat or take a ride in the Type XXVIII, you can pull out Op Monsun for a fling, stick it back in again painlessly and resume your realistic career. But GWX refuses to conform with JSGME convention, opting instead for .exe installation and add/remove programs deinstallation. Yuck!:nope:

It is impossible for GWX to breathe down the neck of RFB. Whatever they do will not affect what the RFB crew does, because they are entirely concerned with fleet boats. GWX and RFB are entirely exclusive functions and can't be considered in competition with each other any more than salt and pepper are.

The attempt to disrupt this thread by erecting a false straw man and knocking him down for our amusement is noted with disgust and contempt.

3X, if it werent for them we would be running vanilla sh3 and sh4 with what UBI puts outAh-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!!:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:No, without them SH3 would have the vital and living mod environment that SH4 has. Total dominance by a supermod is the same as paralysis. It is the death of the sim it "serves."

[msalama]

+1000 Mikhayl. Spot on m8.

I've personally never, ever, understood this antagonism unfortunately quite prevalent between different factions of pretty much all gaming communities, and even more so because it's usually so *******ing DUMB along the lines of "You suck!" "No, YOU do!" "No, it's YOU who suXX0rZ LoxxORz" etc. ad nauseum. Hey, can't we just live without that c**p, please?

RFB and GWX are both outstanding creations, and deserve to prosper and grow alike. 'nuff said!

[Distro]

Having a few problems with the mod.

-Game slows down at a point where its unplayable (and i have a pretty fast computer)

-Game crashes constantly

Any way to fix these?

[Rockin Robbins]

Just reflect on this. What if I were to go to the SH3 forum, GWX sticky thread and interrupt a fruitful and friendly discussion with "You guys better watch out. RFB crew is coming here to smash you with UberU-boote!"

Would the legitimate posters be inappropriate for negatively reacting to my garbage? Of course not! But somehow, here, in the official stickied RFB thread your position is that it is perfectly appropriate to interrupt with garbage. That position is indefensible. You are wrong.

My reaction was not only appropriate, but required, especially since I am not an RFB modder, I use GWX with my SH3 installation and have no problem with either mod.

I do have a problem with a few of the GWX personalities and am not shy about stating the facts in that regard. That will continue to be so as long as they continue their tactics. Others, like Mikhayl and Xantrokoles have established a positive example the GWX leadership and fanboys would do well to follow.

We will now rejoin our previously scheduled RFB discussion, in progress...

[MONOLITH]

Just reflect on this. What if I were to go to the SH3 forum, GWX sticky thread and interrupt a fruitful and friendly discussion with "You guys better watch out. RFB crew is coming here to smash you with UberU-boote!"

Would the legitimate posters be inappropriate for negatively reacting to my garbage? Of course not! But somehow, here, in the official stickied RFB thread your position is that it is perfectly appropriate to interrupt with garbage. That position is indefensible. You are wrong.

My reaction was not only appropriate, but required, especially since I am not an RFB modder, I use GWX with my SH3 installation and have no problem with either mod.

I do have a problem with a few of the GWX personalities and am not shy about stating the facts in that regard. That will continue to be so as long as they continue their tactics. Others, like Mikhayl and Xantrokoles have established a positive example the GWX leadership and fanboys would do well to follow.

We will now rejoin our previously scheduled RFB discussion, in progress...



+1.

[Syxx_Killer]

Hi, guys. After playing TMO for quite a while I decided to give RFB a chance now (Now I have 2 Mods folders chock full of mods! :oops:). So far I like it. I have a few questions, though, and I apologize if they have been asked before. Firstly, here are the mods I am using:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/Syxx_Killer/Miscellaneous/RFBMods.jpg

1. At night will my watch alert me to ships? Since this is my first patrol and first contact I don't know about the day. Anyway, I got to within 1500 yards of an old raked bow merchant and my crew didn't alert me (calm, no fog). Conversely, the merchant didn't see me either. It wasn't until after my torpedo exploded that it started maneuvering. Is this normal?

2. Has the attack map been disabled? I don't see a button on the menu to take me there.

3. When I fired my torpedoes at the aforementioned merchant, my chronograph never appeared. I went to the TBT and tried clicking the torpedo icon but nothing appeared.

Again, I apologize if these have been asked already. Great job on the mod, too!

[LukeFF]

1. At night will my watch alert me to ships? Since this is my first patrol and first contact I don't know about the day. Anyway, I got to within 1500 yards of an old raked bow merchant and my crew didn't alert me (calm, no fog). Conversely, the merchant didn't see me either. It wasn't until after my torpedo exploded that it started maneuvering. Is this normal?

They should be detecting contacts, yes. Can you reproduce this?

2. Has the attack map been disabled? I don't see a button on the menu to take me there.

It's there (I think it's next to the periscope icon).

3. When I fired my torpedoes at the aforementioned merchant, my chronograph never appeared. I went to the TBT and tried clicking the torpedo icon but nothing appeared.

Try pressing the X button.

[Syxx_Killer]

They should be detecting contacts, yes. Can you reproduce this?

Actually I can. I loaded up the Tokyo Express mission as a test bed. I chose the Balao class sub. I play with 83% difficulty leaving manual targeting, no map contact updates, and external cam unchecked. I plotted a course to intercept the destroyers. I charged right at them. I took some shots to help explain it better.

Here you can see the lead destroyer. I have not received any visual sighting reports and the destroyer is unresponsive to my presence.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/Syxx_Killer/SH4%20Shots/SH4Img2008-06-26_201353_843.jpg

I also locked onto a target farther out. That destroyer doesn't see me either.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/Syxx_Killer/SH4%20Shots/SH4Img2008-06-26_201403_062.jpg

At 3600 yards, the lead destroyer is still unresponsive.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/Syxx_Killer/SH4%20Shots/SH4Img2008-06-26_201550_593.jpg

At about 3500 yards the lead destroyer finally reacts to my presence.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/Syxx_Killer/SH4%20Shots/SH4Img2008-06-26_201557_531.jpg


It's there (I think it's next to the periscope icon).

I figured it out, thanks. I didn't know you could double-click the actual icon to take you there.


Try pressing the X button.
How stupid of me! I completely forgot about the X button!:damn::oops::oops::lol:

[msalama]

Hey Luke, BTW...

Regarding this question you asked on the Kickinbak forums yesterday - don't want to register there since I'm not a developer so I'll just report here if you don't mind:

...been awarded a medal yet. Is there something I'm missing here, or is it something to do with the game's mechanics?

Yep, I think there's something wrong in the way the game awards medals. A good example would be my 1st ever RFB patrol, which went like this:

Got out from Pearl Harbour and proceeded to my assigned area. Completed the objective, sunk nothing because no enemy shipping was sighted. Turned back, refueled at Midway, accidentally rammed into a U.S. cargo ship on my way out and sunk it (DOH!!!). Got back to PH with my hull damage at 60+%, and after completing the mission was rewarded a Purple Heart for my efforts :lol: :damn: :rotfl:

So yeah, there seems to be something strange going on in there :o HTH & S!

[LukeFF]

msalama,

Actually, that's the (odd) way the Purple Heart works for the player. This is what Dan (aka Elanaiba) wrote some time back about award requirements:

Purple Heart: over 40% medium damage taken by the sub

Bronze Star: 3 ships sunk in one patrol or a DD, CL or larger combatant ship not worthy of a higher award

Silver Star: 6 ships sunk in one patrol or a CVE or CA sunk

Navy Cross: 8 ships sunk in one patrol or a BB or CV

CMOH: 6 ships sunk in the same engagement (checks for 24 hour timeframe) or 2 of the following: BB, CV, CVE
Still, that doesn't explain how in the world I'm not receiving any awards when I'm clearly meeting the mission requirements and sinking plenty enough tonnage. By the criteria above I should have earned a Bronze Star Medal after my first patrol. Something just isn't right here.

[LukeFF]

Syxx Killer,

Regarding the DD spotting issue, could you tell what type of DD it was? All DDs should have a max spotting range a little bit less than that of the sub's watch crew, so in good weather he should be picking you up sooner. Were you showing your bow to him, or were you showing more of your broadside? AI visual spotting does factor in target profile when determining whether a target's been spotted.

[DrBeast]

Crew rating (green, veteran, elite etc) also plays a factor in how soon (or late) the enemy AI detects you. Speaking of which, is there a ball-park estimate on how that affects detection range? Just curious.

[msalama]

Thanks for the explanation Luke, good to know.

...sinking plenty enough tonnage.

Yeah, sounds strange... One of those not-so-rare SH4 bugs maybe?

[Syxx_Killer]

Syxx Killer,

Regarding the DD spotting issue, could you tell what type of DD it was? All DDs should have a max spotting range a little bit less than that of the sub's watch crew, so in good weather he should be picking you up sooner. Were you showing your bow to him, or were you showing more of your broadside? AI visual spotting does factor in target profile when determining whether a target's been spotted.
I was heading at him at flank speed. My bow was pointed right at him. I will do some more testing later on and see if I can find anything else. The DDs I spotted in the mission were Minekazes. Or are you asking if I could determine it myself what class it was? I have a hard time with the Japanese DDs in SH4. They all look alike to me. I just make it a rule to stay away from anything with depth charges! :lol:

Does the same thing happen to anyone else?

[msalama]

Does the same thing happen to anyone else?

I'm on my 3rd RFB 1.5 patrol at the moment and haven't met any tin cans yet. Will report back when I find them... or, rather, vice versa :lol:

S!

[Syxx_Killer]

Do you notice anything with merchants like what I posted on the prevous page?

[LukeFF]

I was heading at him at flank speed. My bow was pointed right at him. I will do some more testing later on and see if I can find anything else. The DDs I spotted in the mission were Minekazes. Or are you asking if I could determine it myself what class it was? I have a hard time with the Japanese DDs in SH4. They all look alike to me. I just make it a rule to stay away from anything with depth charges! :lol:

I just wanted to know what class of DD it was, so I can check their sensor file and make sure something isn't buggered up with them (like with the old depth charge problem).

Could very well be they were a rookie crew. It happens.

[Syxx_Killer]

I finally got a chance to sit down and play the game today. Been a busy day. Anywho, I reran the Tokyo Express mission with the same Balao class sub. This time my watch crew spotted the lead Minekaze at about 9500 yards. I turned by sub so the lead Minekaze was about 90 degrees on my starboard beam. He spotted me at about 7500 yards (give or take).

As I was doing my patrol I started yesterday I came across large old split freighter. At 8500 yards my watch crew didn't alert me to the ships presence. Conversely the ship never reacted to me as I got closer. I sped ahead and about 4500 yards (I never got a ship spotted and it never spotted me) I dove to periscope depth to attack with torpedoes.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/Syxx_Killer/SH4%20Shots/SH4Img2008-06-27_210902_500.jpg

Could this be because of my mod order? When I was running TMO, I always enabled TMO first, then the environment mod and then everything else. I know the beginning of this thread says to enable the environment mod first and then RFB.

[Ducimus]

Still, that doesn't explain how in the world I'm not receiving any awards when I'm clearly meeting the mission requirements and sinking plenty enough tonnage. By the criteria above I should have earned a Bronze Star Medal after my first patrol. Something just isn't right here.

I've noticed the same thing. I have the impression this started after i came up with my own version of the medals fix. So i wonder if its something i did. However, all i did was change graphic locations and address in the menu.ini file which point at graphic resources, i didnt change anything that resembles code that that says, "yes or no". So if it is something related to my medals fix, i don't understand how it would break the awarding of medals.

edit:

Having said all that, i really didn't get a chance to play much just after "patch 1.5" so its possible it might be a 1.5 patch issue (i kinda hope it is honestly). As an aside, you might want to keep this post in mind:

http://forum.kickinbak.com/viewtopic.php?t=510

Ive reduced the patrol rating requirements in TM, primarly because i noticed i wasn't seeing a medal awarded very often. I have however seen a silver star and a CMOH in one career game, so im just not sure whats up.

[LukeFF]

I finally got a chance to sit down and play the game today. Been a busy day. Anywho, I reran the Tokyo Express mission with the same Balao class sub. This time my watch crew spotted the lead Minekaze at about 9500 yards. I turned by sub so the lead Minekaze was about 90 degrees on my starboard beam. He spotted me at about 7500 yards (give or take).

As I was doing my patrol I started yesterday I came across large old split freighter. At 8500 yards my watch crew didn't alert me to the ships presence. Conversely the ship never reacted to me as I got closer. I sped ahead and about 4500 yards (I never got a ship spotted and it never spotted me) I dove to periscope depth to attack with torpedoes.

(snip)

Could this be because of my mod order? When I was running TMO, I always enabled TMO first, then the environment mod and then everything else. I know the beginning of this thread says to enable the environment mod first and then RFB.

It could due to a number of things that your watch crew didn't pick up the contact. The target's visual profile, your watch crew's efficiency (very important), the weather, etc. all play a role. Looking at your pic above, I would say the weather and time of day should have been that big of hindrances. I would look at your watch crew's efficiency.

As for merchant spotting range, it has been designed so that, so long as the player doesn't do anything stupid, the chance of a merchant detecting you is very slim. Norman Friedman writes in his book on WWII submarines that only 8% of Japanese merchant ships attacked ever took evasive action, because they just weren't aware of what was going on around them.

[LukeFF]

Having said all that, i really didn't get a chance to play much just after "patch 1.5" so its possible it might be a 1.5 patch issue (i kinda hope it is honestly). As an aside, you might want to keep this post in mind:

http://forum.kickinbak.com/viewtopic.php?t=510

Ive reduced the patrol rating requirements in TM, primarly because i noticed i wasn't seeing a medal awarded very often. I have however seen a silver star and a CMOH in one career game, so im just not sure whats up.
I will take a look at that file. It looks like it has some really nifty features in it for one to tweak and adjust.

[Syxx_Killer]

It could due to a number of things that your watch crew didn't pick up the contact. The target's visual profile, your watch crew's efficiency (very important), the weather, etc. all play a role. Looking at your pic above, I would say the weather and time of day should have been that big of hindrances. I would look at your watch crew's efficiency.

As for merchant spotting range, it has been designed so that, so long as the player doesn't do anything stupid, the chance of a merchant detecting you is very slim. Norman Friedman writes in his book on WWII submarines that only 8% of Japanese merchant ships attacked ever took evasive action, because they just weren't aware of what was going on around them.

That sounds cool! I didn't play much recently, and I couldn't post on the Internet after my computer took a lightning strike. Now that I seem to be back up and running, I will start to play again. When I don't have the Internet, I just don't feel like turning the computer on. :dead::lol:

[LukeFF]

Little preview of something coming in the next release:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/LukeFF/SH4/SH4Img2008-06-28_073229_687.jpg

That's a fixed version of the camera for the US single-barrel 20mm cannon. All of the other AA guns (including the German ones) will be getting a touch-up in this next release.

[chriscoolc]

Once you go RFB (and RSRD) you can't go back, can you. Thanks to the modders who have done such wonderful work.

I'm having a problem with big save files that I've confirmed happen when RFB is the only mod present. Here's what I did:

1. Fresh install SH4 1.5
2. Use JSGME to install RFB_v1.51_62308
3. Erase SH4 in my "Documents" folder if exists
4. Start a career, 1941, Pearl Harbor, Gar
5. Start a patrol, plot course to within docking distance of Midway, and travel there at 2048x
6. Save the game
7. Plot course to the neighborhood of Iwo Jima and travel there at 8192x
8. Save the game

Without the mod, the first save was ~300KB, the second about the same. With the mod, the first save was 100MB, the second was ~550MB. The file that takes up all the space is "SaveFile.rep."

If I've missed a previous answer to this, I apologize. I thought I'd ask before taking any steps that might end up breaking parts of the mod.

[Ducimus]

RE: Medals.

Off the wall thought i had earlier that skipped my mind. I wonder if theres any comparison going on to the aces list? The main reason i say this is because i noticed less medals sometime after i:

a.) came up with my version of the medal fix.
AND
b.) introduced the pre JANAC wartime scores mod into the aces list.

After that, medals came few and far between if i remember correctly.

[Syxx_Killer]

I was alerted to this issue by someone else. At first I thought it may be my mission pack for UBM causing it, but I have found that RFB may be causing the Type IXD2 to ride high in the water. What's happening is when I start a single mission where the sub is submerged, say at periscope depth, and I go to surface it will ride really high in the water. Here is a shot:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/Syxx_Killer/SH4%20Shots/IXD2RidingHigh.jpg

If I start a mission where the sub is surfaced, I can submerge and surface again with no problems. It only seems to happen when the mission starts with a submerged submarine. Here are the mods I am using again:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/Syxx_Killer/Miscellaneous/RFBMods.jpg

I disabled everything after RFB and tested it (still rode high). Then, I re-enabled the mods after RFB again and created a test mission. The test mission had a Type IXD2 at periscope depth. I surfaced and it rode high like in the shot above.

[LukeFF]

@Syxx_Killer,

We'll look at it. Likely just needs a fix to how high/low it sits in the water. (Or not. As you probably know, the IXD2 is jacked up a bit WRT to things like diving times, etc. Type IXs diving in 10 seconds? Puhleeeeease! :rolleyes:)

@Ducimus,

That's an interesting thought. I think we're also running the pre-JANAC mod as well. Will have to look and see if we are.

[MDV_4life]

@Syxx_Killer,

We'll look at it. Likely just needs a fix to how high/low it sits in the water. (Or not. As you probably know, the IXD2 is jacked up a bit WRT to things like diving times, etc. Type IXs diving in 10 seconds? Puhleeeeease! :rolleyes:)

@Ducimus,

That's an interesting thought. I think we're also running the pre-JANAC mod as well. Will have to look and see if we are.
10 seconds, .. 5 seconds ... It depends on how fast you are going. Sometimes if i'm stationary and I want to dive it takes me more than 15 seconds, believe me. Useually on 10 knots you should dive pretty quick.

Well couldn't their be made some config files or something that changes the standard height settings in the missions where the sub starts submurged. ( should be included into the RFB download then.)

Cheers

[Seran]

With the mod, the first save was 100MB, the second was ~550MB.
I'll confirm this problem, as it just started happening to me. I'm running NSM, PE, RFB, and RSRD (installed in that order), and just today, my saves have shot to 500+ MB. This has not happened before, and I've been using that configuration for several days without any error. The only alteration I've made was to reinsert Home and End as camera-control keys (for some reason, they were disabled in the included Commands.cfg), which I did immediately after my original set-up.

Also, just wondering: I've never had a circle runner, and I've only played pre-1943 so far. Are they really rare, or is the law of probability just storing them up to screw me later? I do have a ridiculous amount of deep runners, which scored me an easy kill against an Atago...hehe.

I've gotta say though, I'm loving the work on this mod! Thank you all!

[MDV_4life]

I find it very difficult to calculate the angle ( OAB ). I cant see the ship, only a square, how do you guys do it ? And when i zoom to much in i cant even see the enemy ships anymore :s targeting has become much more difficult. And I played at 100 % realism (except the map update & external camera ) but now i'm find it real hard to meet the angle.

Any tips for me ?

[Seran]

I play on the same settings and have the same trouble. What I've started to do is (on the main map) place a mark over the contact, wait a few minutes or so, and mark it again. Then I open the tool helper, draw a line between the two, and read the angle off the line. Then I tweak it as seems sensible, to adjust for error. For example, if it's a task force in the open Pacific and I measure its course as being 269 degrees, I round it to 270.

Once you have the target's course as above (I think that's called the 'true' course), you go to the AoB input and rotate the ship. Look at the PK now. What you want is the bow of the ship aligned with the true course you just found. If the ship is going at 270 degrees, line it up to the 27. It's easy to do that, but you'll have to guess-and-check. But then you're done with that!

There's going to be some error inherent in this method because you can't zoom all the way in and place the mark perfectly onto the square, but it's never caused me to miss. For me, it's far more reliable than using the speed calculation for the course.

[MDV_4life]

I play on the same settings and have the same trouble. What I've started to do is (on the main map) place a mark over the contact, wait a few minutes or so, and mark it again. Then I open the tool helper, draw a line between the two, and read the angle off the line. Then I tweak it as seems sensible, to adjust for error. For example, if it's a task force in the open Pacific and I measure its course as being 269 degrees, I round it to 270.

Once you have the target's course as above (I think that's called the 'true' course), you go to the AoB input and rotate the ship. Look at the PK now. What you want is the bow of the ship aligned with the true course you just found. If the ship is going at 270 degrees, line it up to the 27. It's easy to do that, but you'll have to guess-and-check. But then you're done with that!

There's going to be some error inherent in this method because you can't zoom all the way in and place the mark perfectly onto the square, but it's never caused me to miss. For me, it's far more reliable than using the speed calculation for the course.

Thanks i see what you mean.
But when I'm playing with the germen subs you can't see as visual as the PK in the US subs. It was easy for me when you could clearly see the ship on the map. Just pull the line of the ships course to the ship and then to your sub. Always correct but i find it difficult with the RFB mod because when you zoom in to much you can't see the square anymore.

And its hard to take the time to place marks when your in the middle of a convoy full of destroyers.

[CapnScurvy]

I play on the same settings and have the same trouble. What I've started to do is (on the main map) place a mark over the contact, wait a few minutes or so, and mark it again. Then I open the tool helper, draw a line between the two, and read the angle off the line. Then I tweak it as seems sensible, to adjust for error. For example, if it's a task force in the open Pacific and I measure its course as being 269 degrees, I round it to 270.

Once you have the target's course as above (I think that's called the 'true' course), you go to the AoB input and rotate the ship. Look at the PK now. What you want is the bow of the ship aligned with the true course you just found. If the ship is going at 270 degrees, line it up to the 27. It's easy to do that, but you'll have to guess-and-check. But then you're done with that!

There's going to be some error inherent in this method because you can't zoom all the way in and place the mark perfectly onto the square, but it's never caused me to miss. For me, it's far more reliable than using the speed calculation for the course.

Thanks i see what you mean.
But when I'm playing with the germen subs you can't see as visual as the PK in the US subs. It was easy for me when you could clearly see the ship on the map. Just pull the line of the ships course to the ship and then to your sub. Always correct but i find it difficult with the RFB mod because when you zoom in to much you can't see the square anymore.

And its hard to take the time to place marks when your in the middle of a convoy full of destroyers.

Your right to say you haven't got time but for a "knee jerk" reaction when in the middle of a convoy. The time to start planing is when you first hear the "Ship Spotted!" call from one of your watchmen. RFB takes away the map screen help that perhaps you've relied on for giving yourself the input information to make an accurate attack. Well all is not lost, you can still make good plans for attack if you know how to manually plot a ship's course on the map (this is how the crew would have had to do it in real life anyway).

I've had a tutorial for quite some time that will aid you in ploting a ship's course on the map screen, without the aid of the ship icons appearing. You gather information through the Periscope or Sonar station and relate it onto the map for ploting a targets position and speed. The angle on bow will be gathered this way as well, and you simply input the data into the Position Keeper for preparing the assult.

The tutorial is set up to use a calculator I made to compare "True North" to "Realitive North" bearings, but the U.S. Position Keeper does a fine job of this if you know how to read it. The Greman side will benifit from the AoB Calculator. Both can be found at the thread "High Realism Tutorial" (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=128134) on this forum. It sounds to me that you men are ready for the next step into sub simulation.

[MDV_4life]

I play on the same settings and have the same trouble. What I've started to do is (on the main map) place a mark over the contact, wait a few minutes or so, and mark it again. Then I open the tool helper, draw a line between the two, and read the angle off the line. Then I tweak it as seems sensible, to adjust for error. For example, if it's a task force in the open Pacific and I measure its course as being 269 degrees, I round it to 270.

Once you have the target's course as above (I think that's called the 'true' course), you go to the AoB input and rotate the ship. Look at the PK now. What you want is the bow of the ship aligned with the true course you just found. If the ship is going at 270 degrees, line it up to the 27. It's easy to do that, but you'll have to guess-and-check. But then you're done with that!

There's going to be some error inherent in this method because you can't zoom all the way in and place the mark perfectly onto the square, but it's never caused me to miss. For me, it's far more reliable than using the speed calculation for the course.
Thanks i see what you mean.
But when I'm playing with the germen subs you can't see as visual as the PK in the US subs. It was easy for me when you could clearly see the ship on the map. Just pull the line of the ships course to the ship and then to your sub. Always correct but i find it difficult with the RFB mod because when you zoom in to much you can't see the square anymore.

And its hard to take the time to place marks when your in the middle of a convoy full of destroyers.
Your right to say you haven't got time but for a "knee jerk" reaction when in the middle of a convoy. The time to start planing is when you first hear the "Ship Spotted!" call from one of your watchmen. RFB takes away the map screen help that perhaps you've relied on for giving yourself the input information to make an accurate attack. Well all is not lost, you can still make good plans for attack if you know how to manually plot a ship's course on the map (this is how the crew would have had to do it in real life anyway).

I've had a tutorial for quite some time that will aid you in ploting a ship's course on the map screen, without the aid of the ship icons appearing. You gather information through the Periscope or Sonar station and relate it onto the map for ploting a targets position and speed. The angle on bow will be gathered this way as well, and you simply input the data into the Position Keeper for preparing the assult.

The tutorial is set up to use a calculator I made to compare "True North" to "Realitive North" bearings, but the U.S. Position Keeper does a fine job of this if you know how to read it. The Greman side will benifit from the AoB Calculator. Both can be found at the thread "High Realism Tutorial" (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=128134) on this forum. It sounds to me that you men are ready for the next step into sub simulation.
I just tried it with the tutoriul mission where the ship moves. Hitted him 4 times with 4 fishes. :up: But sometimes your plot can be not so accurate if it is zigzagging. But I have deactivated the dud torpedoes. I'm sick of it.
At first my 4 torpedoes were al dud :-?.

This is a realy nice mod but i would ask to the modders if they could change something in their 'next' mod.

http://i309.photobucket.com/albums/kk389/MDV_4life/skinsub.jpg

Look at the hatch ! 1/4 of it is just shooved into the ship. It would make it difficult to escape from the passific ocean when the sub is diving :p
This is the Perpoise class submarine.
Maybe they could change the layout. I know this is a very little 'bug' if i may call it like that but how preciser the layouts are the nicer the sub looks.

http://i309.photobucket.com/albums/kk389/MDV_4life/periscope.jpg

This is the attack periscope (the same for the obs. periscope).
As you see i rised the periscope a little and you can see that it just 'penitrates' the steel. In some subs you have a hollow space where the periscope raises from. Couldn't someone make a little mechanic slice 'door' so it looks smoother. Just like the torpedo doors, you can open it too.

Well i'm just giving some things that can be add to it but otherwise great mod. Keep up the good work ;) Let me know what you think about the 2 things i mentioned.

[RFB Team]

never[/I] had a circle runner, and I've only played pre-1943 so far. Are they really rare, or is the law of probability just storing them up to screw me later? I do have a ridiculous amount of deep runners, which scored me an easy kill against an Atago...hehe.

The chance of a circle-runner is very rare, yes, though they can pop up at any time, so be careful. ;)

Deep runners are a given prior to August 1942. They will run from 10 to 11 feet each time, because the depth control mechanism was improperly calibrated when the original Mark 14s were designed and produced. Same deal with the Mark 10, except that the depth error isn't nearly as bad, and it was never fixed.

[RFB Team]

This is a realy nice mod but i would ask to the modders if they could change something in their 'next' mod.

(snip)

Look at the hatch ! 1/4 of it is just shooved into the ship. It would make it difficult to escape from the passific ocean when the sub is diving :p
This is the Perpoise class submarine.
Maybe they could change the layout. I know this is a very little 'bug' if i may call it like that but how preciser the layouts are the nicer the sub looks.

(snip)

This is the attack periscope (the same for the obs. periscope).
As you see i rised the periscope a little and you can see that it just 'penitrates' the steel. In some subs you have a hollow space where the periscope raises from. Couldn't someone make a little mechanic slice 'door' so it looks smoother. Just like the torpedo doors, you can open it too.

Well i'm just giving some things that can be add to it but otherwise great mod. Keep up the good work ;) Let me know what you think about the 2 things i mentioned.

That's the way the developers designed the model for the fleet subs. Right now we can't do anything about it, but possbily with future iterations of S3D we can fix it. (The periscope bug is indeed pretty annoying).

[MDV_4life]

This is a realy nice mod but i would ask to the modders if they could change something in their 'next' mod.

(snip)

Look at the hatch ! 1/4 of it is just shooved into the ship. It would make it difficult to escape from the passific ocean when the sub is diving :p
This is the Perpoise class submarine.
Maybe they could change the layout. I know this is a very little 'bug' if i may call it like that but how preciser the layouts are the nicer the sub looks.

(snip)

This is the attack periscope (the same for the obs. periscope).
As you see i rised the periscope a little and you can see that it just 'penitrates' the steel. In some subs you have a hollow space where the periscope raises from. Couldn't someone make a little mechanic slice 'door' so it looks smoother. Just like the torpedo doors, you can open it too.

Well i'm just giving some things that can be add to it but otherwise great mod. Keep up the good work ;) Let me know what you think about the 2 things i mentioned.
That's the way the developers designed the model for the fleet subs. Right now we can't do anything about it, but possbily with future iterations of S3D we can fix it. (The periscope bug is indeed pretty annoying).

I have a question. Since i have your mod the attack map has changed. When you zoom a lot in a circle apears around your sub. I have just seen from a vid tutoriul of a guy who had also like your attack map but he doens't seem to have the mod. On his attack map the true course was shown and the interseption point. Now the only thing i'm seeing is a coople of little stripes.

[vanjast]

AOB takes a little practise. Eventually you can do it with no maps, etc, only scope (the way it should be done).
It's a very simple calculation :-
- you determine the angle the ship will see you at (this is AOB)
- Your scope bearing + AOB = 90 will place you on a 90 degree course to the ship course, the ideal firing angle.
- Wait for the range to be ~1000m, or target bearing = 20 Degrees before you fire.

Preset all your torps to 1000m range, long before you get to this point.... :know:

[MDV_4life]

AOB takes a little practise. Eventually you can do it with no maps, etc, only scope (the way it should be done).
It's a very simple calculation :-
- you determine the angle the ship will see you at (this is AOB)
- Your scope bearing + AOB = 90 will place you on a 90 degree course to the ship course, the ideal firing angle.
- Wait for the range to be ~1000m, or target bearing = 20 Degrees before you fire.

Preset all your torps to 1000m range, long before you get to this point.... :know:

I'm familiar with calculating OAB. But in the vid he had a little more visual help. I like WW2 but I still like a bit of 'technology' to make my job easier. I'm doing everything manual so they take my only help away :o !

It's a little bit of a negative point (the apperance of the ships - sub ). In my opinion .

[vanjast]

I like WW2 but I still like a bit of 'technology' to make my job easier
Ahhhhh!! .. then you want the Mark-1 Eyeball.. works well under all conditions, so long as the machine is 'awake'
:lol:

[MDV_4life]

I like WW2 but I still like a bit of 'technology' to make my job easier Ahhhhh!! .. then you want the Mark-1 Eyeball.. works well under all conditions, so long as the machine is 'awake'
:lol:

What the hell is Mark-1 Eyeball??? Is it another mod or a game :o:o

[Fish40]

I like WW2 but I still like a bit of 'technology' to make my job easier Ahhhhh!! .. then you want the Mark-1 Eyeball.. works well under all conditions, so long as the machine is 'awake'
:lol:
What the hell is Mark-1 Eyeball??? Is it another mod or a game :o:o




I believe he's refering to the good ol' human eye! And the machine would be the person to whome those eyes belong:yep:

[MDV_4life]

I like WW2 but I still like a bit of 'technology' to make my job easier Ahhhhh!! .. then you want the Mark-1 Eyeball.. works well under all conditions, so long as the machine is 'awake'
:lol:
What the hell is Mark-1 Eyeball??? Is it another mod or a game :o:o



I believe he's refering to the good ol' human eye! And the machine would be the person to whome those eyes belong:yep:

If my name was Mark, then it would make sense , but for now my machine is a bit asleep.

Going offline now :arrgh!: AAARGGH

[Syxx_Killer]

Just a quick question. In the intro video the sound for the crash dive plays. When playing the actual game and I order a crash dive, a normal dive report is played. Is this more accurate than the crash dive noise that was in the intro video?

[MDV_4life]

Just a quick question. In the intro video the sound for the crash dive plays. When playing the actual game and I order a crash dive, a normal dive report is played. Is this more accurate than the crash dive noise that was in the intro video?

Thanks for reminding me to something, i have to fade out the end of my crash dive sound file. It ends to corrupt. I can't help you with that questions since i don't use the sounds of RFB. srry

[chriscoolc]

Just a follow up to the problems I was having with savefiles... Because I hadn't had a chance to do a whole patrol with just RFB installed, I didn't mention this at the time, but my game was crashing whenever I got within about 20 miles of either any enemy port, or within 20 miles of my home port after completing a mission. I've tried various combos of mods that I'd seen others using on this thread, but I can't get things to work.

Any ideas what I might be doing wrong?

[MDV_4life]

Just a follow up to the problems I was having with savefiles... Because I hadn't had a chance to do a whole patrol with just RFB installed, I didn't mention this at the time, but my game was crashing whenever I got within about 20 miles of either any enemy port, or within 20 miles of my home port after completing a mission. I've tried various combos of mods that I'd seen others using on this thread, but I can't get things to work.

Any ideas what I might be doing wrong?
My game chrashed when i loaded a saved carreer (any saved file), i think your need to gonna start a new carreer mate :down:

Let me say this a other way, just an ordinary question but how do you know the length of the ship? PS It isn't in the recog manual ...

EDIT: found the answer, totally forgot about the little bars underneed the ships pictures.

[CapnScurvy]

I play on the same settings and have the same trouble. What I've started to do is (on the main map) place a mark over the contact, wait a few minutes or so, and mark it again. Then I open the tool helper, draw a line between the two, and read the angle off the line. Then I tweak it as seems sensible, to adjust for error. For example, if it's a task force in the open Pacific and I measure its course as being 269 degrees, I round it to 270.

Once you have the target's course as above (I think that's called the 'true' course), you go to the AoB input and rotate the ship. Look at the PK now. What you want is the bow of the ship aligned with the true course you just found. If the ship is going at 270 degrees, line it up to the 27. It's easy to do that, but you'll have to guess-and-check. But then you're done with that!

There's going to be some error inherent in this method because you can't zoom all the way in and place the mark perfectly onto the square, but it's never caused me to miss. For me, it's far more reliable than using the speed calculation for the course.
Thanks i see what you mean.
But when I'm playing with the germen subs you can't see as visual as the PK in the US subs. It was easy for me when you could clearly see the ship on the map. Just pull the line of the ships course to the ship and then to your sub. Always correct but i find it difficult with the RFB mod because when you zoom in to much you can't see the square anymore.

And its hard to take the time to place marks when your in the middle of a convoy full of destroyers.
Your right to say you haven't got time but for a "knee jerk" reaction when in the middle of a convoy. The time to start planing is when you first hear the "Ship Spotted!" call from one of your watchmen. RFB takes away the map screen help that perhaps you've relied on for giving yourself the input information to make an accurate attack. Well all is not lost, you can still make good plans for attack if you know how to manually plot a ship's course on the map (this is how the crew would have had to do it in real life anyway).

I've had a tutorial for quite some time that will aid you in ploting a ship's course on the map screen, without the aid of the ship icons appearing. You gather information through the Periscope or Sonar station and relate it onto the map for ploting a targets position and speed. The angle on bow will be gathered this way as well, and you simply input the data into the Position Keeper for preparing the assult.

The tutorial is set up to use a calculator I made to compare "True North" to "Realitive North" bearings, but the U.S. Position Keeper does a fine job of this if you know how to read it. The Greman side will benifit from the AoB Calculator. Both can be found at the thread "High Realism Tutorial" (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=128134) on this forum. It sounds to me that you men are ready for the next step into sub simulation.
I just tried it with the tutoriul mission where the ship moves. Hitted him 4 times with 4 fishes. :up: But sometimes your plot can be not so accurate if it is zigzagging.

In the tutorial I mentioned I have the "decks awash" to keep out of the high sea rollers that were on the ocean that day. This puts your sub higher out of the water and can lead to being detected if you stay in that position as the target nears.
Common sense say's hide when you can to prevent the enemy from taking evasive actions like getting into a zig zag pattern. Freighters have watchmen that will sound the alarm if they see your sub. Keeping the periscope down most of the time, or just partially raised are good ideas too. If the jig is up and you are detected, I've stayed parallel to the target's course for quite some time, waiting on the ship to return to a standard course. When it does I get ahead of it's path and set up for another shot.

Also, in the tutorial I used the sonar to give accurate range data for my map plotting, it should go without saying but remember, if you use your sonar on an enemy escort he will likely turn in your direction and come after the source of the ping in a heated trot. Escorts, unlike freighters, have excellent ears.



AOB takes a little practise. Eventually you can do it with no maps, etc, only scope (the way it should be done).
It's a very simple calculation :-
- you determine the angle the ship will see you at (this is AOB)
- Your scope bearing + AOB = 90 will place you on a 90 degree course to the ship course, the ideal firing angle.
- Wait for the range to be ~1000m, or target bearing = 20 Degrees before you fire.

Preset all your torps to 1000m range, long before you get to this point....


I'll take exception to the statement that AoB "should be done" without map plotting. The captain was only one part of the equation when making an attack, the plotting board got plenty of use to check and recheck what the captain, watchmen, or sonarman reported as data. You are correct to bring your sub to a 90 degree angle, perpendicular to the target's course, it is the ideal angle. Also, waiting for the target to be front and center, within 15 to no more than 20 degrees off the center of the sub's bow is important to keep the torpedo gyro angle to the minimal amount. But, if you do your homework and you check it twice (or three or more times) you can hit target's, as in the tutorial, at 3000 yard range! I don't advocate this distance is what you should use. The point is, if you take the instruction and set up your attack with the proper data you can hit targets with the settings for High Realism without the aid of the map giving you the target's course and position. This in effect is how it should be done. :D

Best regards

[Galanti]

I too am encountering massive savegame files, like about 900 megs for one save. I've spent the afternoon digging, and I've come up this this possible cause:
http://forum.kickinbak.com/viewtopic.php?t=538&start=20. As this is from your own forum to begin with, I figure you've seen this and have addressed the issue within the .SIM files. But is it possible the same issue (calculating on fractional numbers) is present in other files?

Other than that, I am mightily impressed with the RFB team's work and committment to authenticity. The only thing I just had to change was the cover for the recognition manual.

Oh, and the keys for controlling elevation for the camera view (Home, End, Numpad7 and Numpad1, IIRC) were disabled in the commands.cfg for some reason. I've renabled them with no ill effects.

[MDV_4life]

Do you need to start a new carreer when using RFB?
I think i do but just to know for sure.

[LukeFF]

I too am encountering massive savegame files, like about 900 megs for one save. I've spent the afternoon digging, and I've come up this this possible cause:
http://forum.kickinbak.com/viewtopic.php?t=538&start=20. As this is from your own forum to begin with, I figure you've seen this and have addressed the issue within the .SIM files. But is it possible the same issue (calculating on fractional numbers) is present in other files?

With what submarine are you encountering these large save files? We thought we had this fixed in the last release, but apparently it's still a problem.

[MDV_4life]

I too am encountering massive savegame files, like about 900 megs for one save. I've spent the afternoon digging, and I've come up this this possible cause:
http://forum.kickinbak.com/viewtopic.php?t=538&start=20. As this is from your own forum to begin with, I figure you've seen this and have addressed the issue within the .SIM files. But is it possible the same issue (calculating on fractional numbers) is present in other files?
With what submarine are you encountering these large save files? We thought we had this fixed in the last release, but apparently it's still a problem.
Hi, i saw that the RFB has some changes to the crewman (clothing and cetera). But the germans still look the same. Can you remove the uniform file because i'm playing a german carreer right now and i would like to have the john Hamm's uniform mod to be active. Maybe i should activate the uniform mod AFTER RFB. Should that help? so it will be overwriten ..


And BTW i just noticed the new asigned key commands. I see snorkel depth and deploy snorkel ....
Euhm since when is their a snorkel on a SH4 sub ?

[Galanti]

I too am encountering massive savegame files, like about 900 megs for one save. I've spent the afternoon digging, and I've come up this this possible cause:
http://forum.kickinbak.com/viewtopic.php?t=538&start=20. As this is from your own forum to begin with, I figure you've seen this and have addressed the issue within the .SIM files. But is it possible the same issue (calculating on fractional numbers) is present in other files?

With what submarine are you encountering these large save files? We thought we had this fixed in the last release, but apparently it's still a problem.

Yeah, sorry, should've mentioned. It's a Sargo, out of Freemantle in early 1942. Also using the latest RSRD for RFB, but to be honest, I'm figuring RFB to be the culprit.:D

I've tried editing values in the .SIM to be more or less singles, except for a few I thought were meant to be doubles or floats, like surface draft, but no dice.

BTW, your crew changes in the latest release are wicked and much appreciated, no more boats filled to the gunnels with CPOs! I've also edited the Ranks.upc file so that only basic seamen types can be instantly promoted at sea. The rest have to be manually done in port. I'm not sure what ranks could be summarily promoted at sea once they finished their quals, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't officers and POs.

[simsurfer]

I just downloaded this mod tonight, played (tried) but I cannot click on the navigation map, how do I plot a course??

[simsurfer]

BTW, I only have this mod enabled. Is there a read me on how this mod works??

[AVGWarhawk]

BTW, I only have this mod enabled. Is there a read me on how this mod works??

Yes, if you enable the mod through JSGM it should kick out the readme and readme for the new key commands. In a nutshell, the ingame functions to get things done are basically the same, what has been done is making the subs/ships/timeline of availability more realistic. Some texture changes and how the submarine was manned in reality was looked into and corrected. Damage models looked at and addressed. Things of that nature. Load the mod and give it a test run.

[AVGWarhawk]

I just downloaded this mod tonight, played (tried) but I cannot click on the navigation map, how do I plot a course??


There are two map tabs now. One for navigation and one for the attack map. Are you clicking the correct tab? Also F3 will take you to the navigation map.

[simsurfer]

Im in the process of reinstalling the game, the mod was screwed up and not working like it should.

Lets see how a reinstall works out??

[simsurfer]

Ok, working now, didnt realize you had to 2x click on the map icon in order for it to go to the navigation map, though a lot of the icons operate in the same fashion.

[simsurfer]

I really want to like this mod but I keep dying during my first patrol. Fresh install. U-Boat add on installed and for mods I have the environment mod installed first then this mod.

Last patrol I was going along at 1kt speed, 100 or 150 feet down in a Gato class, nothing around when all of a sudden the CO meter icon shows up and stuff starts breaking around me. I press E to surface, check damage screen and I have severe flooding. two min later, Im dead.

Can someone tell me what is going on?
And that is just one example of how Im dying.
Thanks

[LukeFF]

I really want to like this mod but I keep dying during my first patrol. Fresh install. U-Boat add on installed and for mods I have the environment mod installed first then this mod.

Last patrol I was going along at 1kt speed, 100 or 150 feet down in a Gato class, nothing around when all of a sudden the CO meter icon shows up and stuff starts breaking around me. I press E to surface, check damage screen and I have severe flooding. two min later, Im dead.

Can someone tell me what is going on?

Are you near enemy waters? You may have hit a mine or a subnet.

[simsurfer]

Are minefields and subnets represented in this mod?

[kylesplanet]

Are minefields and subnets represented in this mod?

Yes. They're in the stock game and probably even more so in RFB. I learned it the hard way. :shifty:

[simsurfer]

Never really played the game when it came out cause it was so buggy, not till UBoat expansion came out anyway. Now I play it every chance I get but in the stock version never ran into a minefied or subnet :hmm:

Like GWX, does this mod come with and instruction manual one can read that goes over how to play with this mod being that its almost an entire game rewrite?

Another thing I have noticed is when I am in a Gato that had a test depth of 300 ft and a crush depth of 500 or 600 ft, if I am at 300ft, silent running, after a bit I start taking damage? Not going deaper, not getting depth charge, just cruising at 1kt speed my hull integrety will start counting up and I will hear lights breaking.

Reason for this?? :hmm:

[kylesplanet]

Never really played the game when it came out cause it was so buggy, not till UBoat expansion came out anyway. Now I play it every chance I get but in the stock version never ran into a minefied or subnet :hmm:

Like GWX, does this mod come with and instruction manual one can read that goes over how to play with this mod being that its almost an entire game rewrite?

Another thing I have noticed is when I am in a Gato that had a test depth of 300 ft and a crush depth of 500 or 600 ft, if I am at 300ft, silent running, after a bit I start taking damage? Not going deaper, not getting depth charge, just cruising at 1kt speed my hull integrety will start counting up and I will hear lights breaking.

Reason for this?? :hmm:

I don't know of a manual but as far as depth, the longer you stay under your test depth, the more damage you take to the hull. That is designed to work that way. The Balao will hold up better. (thicker skin)

[simsurfer]

Thats just it, technically the Gato class could without damage to itself go below 300 ft, closer to 500 ft before damage would set in.

Is there or do you know of a file that we could change this?

Thanks for all your help btw.

[kylesplanet]

It could go beyond 300 but it couldn't hang out there for very long without problems. (at least that is my understanding, I could be off on that) That is why we see damage below the test depth if we spend any period of time under it.

[Marbakka]

Fuel management is now even more of a crucial item you simply cannot ignore. In RFB, every sub has been configured to obtain its best balance between speed and range with the Ahead Standard bell. Any higher and your fuel efficiency will drop; at lower speeds your range will increase, but it will take you that much longer to reach your objective. In conjunction with this, your navigator will tell you what your maxiumum range is at your current speed; look for the button on the menu bar. With thoughtful and rational use of your boat's speed settings, you can complete 4-week-plus patrols easily without having to re-fuel. If you run out of fuel, you did something wrong.

This is giving me some serious grief. I'm new to SH4 but I like to dive into these things head first. I've already installed RFB and RSRD along with PE (I think). Anyway, so far aside from my horrific inability to hit things with torpedoes, my only real big problem is fuel management. I've tried all sorts of things but I never seem to have any fuel remaining after going from the port to the patrol area, conducting search patterns, and attacking merchants. I've gotten to where I start heading back toward Manilla at half tank because I know that Manilla will be taken before I get there and if my battery was damaged (and it often is) then I can't make it to Borneo in time either. As the above quote says, I'm doing something wrong. I'd been using Ahead Standard both above and below - charging the batteries 100%, diving till they got to about 10-20%, surfacing to charge and so forth. I've tried using diesel ONLY to charge the batteries (stopping, surfacing, charging, submerging, proceeding), but its just too painful to do that the entire trip. I ran a forum search on this topic but a) I couldn't find any tips specific to RFB and b) the tips I did find were all contradictory. Any tips for fuel management in RFB?

[kylesplanet]

Fuel management is now even more of a crucial item you simply cannot ignore. In RFB, every sub has been configured to obtain its best balance between speed and range with the Ahead Standard bell. Any higher and your fuel efficiency will drop; at lower speeds your range will increase, but it will take you that much longer to reach your objective. In conjunction with this, your navigator will tell you what your maxiumum range is at your current speed; look for the button on the menu bar. With thoughtful and rational use of your boat's speed settings, you can complete 4-week-plus patrols easily without having to re-fuel. If you run out of fuel, you did something wrong.

This is giving me some serious grief. I'm new to SH4 but I like to dive into these things head first. I've already installed RFB and RSRD along with PE (I think). Anyway, so far aside from my horrific inability to hit things with torpedoes, my only real big problem is fuel management. I've tried all sorts of things but I never seem to have any fuel remaining after going from the port to the patrol area, conducting search patterns, and attacking merchants. I've gotten to where I start heading back toward Manilla at half tank because I know that Manilla will be taken before I get there and if my battery was damaged (and it often is) then I can't make it to Borneo in time either. As the above quote says, I'm doing something wrong. I'd been using Ahead Standard both above and below - charging the batteries 100%, diving till they got to about 10-20%, surfacing to charge and so forth. I've tried using diesel ONLY to charge the batteries (stopping, surfacing, charging, submerging, proceeding), but its just too painful to do that the entire trip. I ran a forum search on this topic but a) I couldn't find any tips specific to RFB and b) the tips I did find were all contradictory. Any tips for fuel management in RFB?

Stay on the surface as much as possible and run at ahead standard. When submerged, I use 2/3 unless I'm trying to get into position.

When you are charging batteries, you use a lot more fuel and you are much more fuel efficient when on the surface so I only dive when necessary. You can use full or flank when doing an end around.

Under the nav map tab, you'll find "range to waypoint" and "estimated range at current speed". You can plan your fuel management through that. Hope that helps some.:up:

[RFB Team]

This is giving me some serious grief. I'm new to SH4 but I like to dive into these things head first. I've already installed RFB and RSRD along with PE (I think). Anyway, so far aside from my horrific inability to hit things with torpedoes, my only real big problem is fuel management. I've tried all sorts of things but I never seem to have any fuel remaining after going from the port to the patrol area, conducting search patterns, and attacking merchants. I've gotten to where I start heading back toward Manilla at half tank because I know that Manilla will be taken before I get there and if my battery was damaged (and it often is) then I can't make it to Borneo in time either. As the above quote says, I'm doing something wrong. I'd been using Ahead Standard both above and below - charging the batteries 100%, diving till they got to about 10-20%, surfacing to charge and so forth. I've tried using diesel ONLY to charge the batteries (stopping, surfacing, charging, submerging, proceeding), but its just too painful to do that the entire trip. I ran a forum search on this topic but a) I couldn't find any tips specific to RFB and b) the tips I did find were all contradictory. Any tips for fuel management in RFB?

Just highlighting that one point. It may be still be that, with 1.5, the "battery recharging" mode will not automatically shut off if your batteries are damaged (even if they are repaired, they will have less than 100% capacity). Best thing to do is, if your batteries are damaged, watch how far they recharge and then manually shut off the "battery recharge" mode when your battery capacity isn't going any farther. Otherwise, if you just leave it on, the game thinks you are still recharging your batteries, and your fuel economy will be extremely low.

[RFB Team]

does this mod come with and instruction manual one can read that goes over how to play with this mod being that its almost an entire game rewrite?

It's something we need to do at some point and are looking to do in the near future.