29th flotilla Gibraltar run

[Keelbuster]

GWX 1.03 - i'm in the 29th flotilla. It's June 44 and based on the GWX manual, 29th disbands in august or september. I want to make the gibraltar run. In previous careers, i've seen the radio message ordering med. uboats to either scuttle or run make the gibraltar run. Unfortunately in those cases I was outside the med. Not this time. Does anyone know if when I'm back at Toulon and the date goes past august, will I be automatically whisked to a french port outside the med, or will I be ordered to make the run? Do I have to be at sea to get this order? I can imagine being at sea and it suddenly changing my return port to Nazaire. If that's what's required, I will stay arrange to be at sea when that happens. If you guys have done this, let me know so I can do it right - I _must_ attempt the run. Anyone know the exact date that the order gets sent out? My whole career has been leading up to this.

[Packerton]

Rule number 1 of U boat Warfare: STAY AWAY FROM DER CANAL. :know: :up:


Rule number 2 of U boat warefare: STAY AWAY FROM DER GIBRALTAR!



Not sure what you can do in that situation though, try to make the run after waiting for bad weather to give you the highest rate of sucesss, I play at 100% Realism though so it may be a bit easier for you.

Good luck.

[baggygreen]

I dont think you get a message. Course, i dunno what 44 is, never having made it that far! my guess is that the port will change hands and if you try to dock there you'll be in a bit of trouble. If you're out at sea while the swap takes place, make sure you've got enough fuel for the journey...

[Von Manteuffel]

Night; poor weather if possible; fully silent-running; no more than 3 knots - be prepared to stop and start a lot; periscope dpth, but minimal use of the 'scope. Stay as close to the North African shore as you can without getting into very shallow water - creep and crawl and, with luck, you might make it.

Luck.

[Keelbuster]

Luck.



Luck - and a pressure hull that can do 450. :D

[Gezoes]

Well, I'd like to do that run oneday, so I'm all ears! :yep:

[KeptinCranky]

I've busted in in '42 once but never busted out again,
this wasn't really feasible historically because there's a 2 or 3 knot current against if you try to head west, this would seriously hamper any attempt at running silent and then there's only one thing that might save you, Keelbuster's mighty pressure hull that goes to 450, and maybe not even that.

[LeafsFan]

Good Luck!!

HB

[Hartmann]

Night; poor weather if possible; fully silent-running; no more than 3 knots - be prepared to stop and start a lot; periscope dpth, but minimal use of the 'scope. Stay as close to the North African shore as you can without getting into very shallow water - creep and crawl and, with luck, you might make it.

Luck.

Very good advices :yep:

i sneaked inside the med running near of the africa coast in january of 1942 with a IX-B boat, but is easier because the allied radar is less developed, but i had to dive and run several times.

in 1944 probably could be done but a snorkel could be very useful.

In command aces of the deep it was very well simulated, because there are a submarine current of 6-7 knts and is impossible go to the atlantic dived.

[Vacillator]

[/quote]

Luck - and a pressure hull that can do 450. :D[/quote]


Aren't the Straits somewhat shallow? A 450 hull will not be of much use in that case.

Or are there bits that deep?

EDIT: Okay Wikipedia tells me:
'The strait depth ranges between 300 and 900 meters.'

So maybe a 450 hull would be useful after all :yep:

[Fenris_Wolf]

The old man said that there are two parallel currents in the strait at different depths, flowing opposite to each other? :lol: Even if you could dive to 450m I don't think the strait is deep enough. As a hint, most of the patrols travel from coast to coast (perpendicular to your path) with the occasional DD zig-zagging through the strait. Lots of smaller boats in those patrols too (and all the merchant traffic will keep your sonar busy).

My advice would be the same as Von Manteuffel's because that's how I crossed the strait. In your case, the schnorkell should make things much easier.

[Von Manteuffel]

I've tried it several times - just for the Hell of it, usually when I've completed an assigned patrol in that neck of the woods - and failed more times than I've succeeded ( and, "Yes" I always saved-game before attempting it). The key is to remain undetected. Once they know you're there, chances are you're history. With so little room for manouevre, the need to avoid giving them a precise fix on your position and several Tommies hunting you simultaneously it's usually "Auf wiedersehen und gute nacht!"

I had a few days in Gibraltar in September and, having seen the Straits for myself now I find it difficult to believe that anything the British didn't want to get through could do so. I met an ex RN officer who's retired to Gib. He was in Destroyers ( post War ) and summed up any attempt by a U-Boat to get through the Straits of Gibraltar during WWII as " a remarkably elaborate way of committing suicide."

[Vacillator]

I got to wondering how many boats tried, and either succeeded or failed. Found the following map of known sinkings:

http://uboat.net/maps/gibraltar.htm

That doesn't seem that many (on a cold statistical basis), so does that mean not many tried?

[Torplexed]

I got to wondering how many boats tried, and either succeeded or failed. Found the following map of known sinkings:

http://uboat.net/maps/gibraltar.htm

That doesn't seem that many (on a cold statistical basis), so does that mean not many tried?
According to the same site (u-boat.net) the Germans managed to send 62 U-boats into the Mediterranean. 9 U-boats where sunk while attempting passage and 10 more had to abort their attempt due to damage.

[Von Manteuffel]

That doesn't seem that many

Dunno. 15 boats in a few hundred miles of ocean centering on the Straits counts as a lot to me. And what would be the purpose? We know that breaking out of the Med into the Atlantic was immensely difficult because of the West to East current. Most places and convoy routes in the Med were within range of Axis warplanes based in Europe, so why risk trying to transfer valuable boats and crews from the Atlantic to the Med?

Especially since it's acknowledged that U-boat offensives were designed to "blockade" Britain and deny her supplies from the US and other non-occupied countries - so the Atlantic was the place.

I believe the reason so many boats were lost in the approchaes to the Straits is, not that they were trying to break through to the other side - no real point, but were hunting merchants which were using the Straits and found themselves in very heavily-protected waters.

[Vacillator]

I agree, in terms of why they were trying in the first place it seems a bit of waste. I guess they only went in to support the effort in Africa?

Might have been better to set up a construction site on the Med but I don't suppose it would have lasted long. Probaly not that easy to do anyway and detrimental to concentrating resources...

[Keelbuster]

Boys, thanks for the feedback - I'm well aware of the dangers of the strait. Interesting facts about the currents - it's a shame that they're not simulated. If they were, we'd have no choice but to do the strait on the surface:) However, in GWX 1.03, I've done her before, in ways much like those discussed above - i.e., hug the south coast, run on the surface at flank whenever possible, do the whole thing at night. Basically, I know it's do-able, just a little chancy. My boat's lucky though, and push comes to shove I'll go real deep.

Now - my original question - can I, and if so, how can I, get the order to go through the strait in GWX 1.03 ? Where do I need to be in august 44? Will it be an automatic thing, or will I get a nice little base change that just-so-happens to require a gibraltar run? If so, should I arrange to be at sea at that time? And what day is it?

Thanks in advance,

Kb

[Hartmann]

I got to wondering how many boats tried, and either succeeded or failed. Found the following map of known sinkings:

http://uboat.net/maps/gibraltar.htm

That doesn't seem that many (on a cold statistical basis), so does that mean not many tried?
According to the same site (u-boat.net) the Germans managed to send 62 U-boats into the Mediterranean. 9 U-boats where sunk while attempting passage and 10 more had to abort their attempt due to damage.

Not could be better built the boats in italy than sending the boats in a suicide run ?? :hmm:

[Torplexed]

Not could be better built the boats in italy than sending the boats in a suicide run ?? :hmm:
The Germans did set up their Black Sea Flotilla at Constanta, Romania with Type IIs sent by rail. I suppose the Type VIIs were too large for this arrangement but if they could have come up with a way it sure would have made for some interesting U-Boat lore. Join the Navy...see the Alps. :cool:

[sasquatch]

I just finished a Gibraltor run/raid. Wait till night, go flank speed on the surface (hydros can't hear you that way), and drop down to 2-3kts every hour or so to pick up distant contacts. I was never spotted (till after the raid of course) even though there were 6 warships in the area.

[Kpt. Kozloff]

Hi Keelbuster,
I've been in the Med since the establishment of the base in Salamis, then i got transfered to La Spezia and then to Toulon. It's May 1944 at this point and i was wondering the same thing. I guess we will recieve the transfer order to other base at the french atlantic coast or in Norway. I ain't scuttling, that's for sure! I'm going to make the run. The first one to check what happens when Toulon is taken by the Allies will post some info, alright? Good luck.

[Keelbuster]

Hi Keelbuster,
I've been in the Med since the establishment of the base in Salamis, then i got transfered to La Spezia and then to Toulon. It's May 1944 at this point and i was wondering the same thing. I guess we will recieve the transfer order to other base at the french atlantic coast or in Norway. I ain't scuttling, that's for sure! I'm going to make the run. The first one to check what happens when Toulon is taken by the Allies will post some info, alright? Good luck.

Roger that. If the order comes, I'll get it this patrol or next. I'll let you know what happens.

Kb

[Kpt. Kozloff]

Hi Kb,
It's 15th of June and i've been on patrol since the 8th and just got a message from BdU: "The base was changed to St. Nazaire". It happened just after i reloaded the game from the savegame i made after finishing my usual '24h - patrol your grid duty'. Although the info about your new base doesn't change on the briefing and orders pad. Starting and return base is still Toulon. Maybe that'll change when i send patrol report at the end of the patrol when i exhaust all my torpedos, then you get the "Return to base" order. We'll see. I'll post some screenies when i get home.
Cheerio.

[Keelbuster]

Crazy - sounds like the order I've been waiting for. But it's already Aug 5th for me - still toulon-toulon. Hope they haven't forgotten me...

GWX 1.03?

Kb

[Kpt. Kozloff]

Crazy - sounds like the order I've been waiting for. But it's already Aug 5th for me - still toulon-toulon. Hope they haven't forgotten me...

GWX 1.03?

Kb


Yeah, GWX 1.03. And i agree, it is crazy! I've been given the order to transfer to other base so early, i mean Toulon is still highlighted 'blue' so it's still axis!
I guess they're running short of experienced kaleuns in the Atlantic...
Suicide mission before me, passing through Gibraltar westwards (?!). It's going to be that 'big' moment of the career i'm running. Can't wait...
Good luck Kb, we're gonna need it!
Don't you just love the Med, people?
;)

[Keelbuster]

Ok so here's what happened to me. I finished my last patrol out of Toulon and set out for another - August 7 '44. When I click start, I get a message - base has been changed to Trondhiem. Har. Here it is - the Gibraltar run! She loads. As soon as it's finished 'initializing', I get a 'merchant spotted' alert. I go to the conning and there's a troop transport blocking my path. It goes psycho and starts shooting. I order ahead flank and try to bash through it at the stern - i manage to, and push past. Meanwhile my watch crew is killed and anonymous guns inflict flooding on all compartments. I get down to PD and curse - damn - i got screwed. No legitimate Gibraltar run! So now i'm loading and saving trying to get a decent start _as if_ i were ordered to bail with sufficient notice. LIke, it's crazy - Toulon is plotted as a neutral port, but it's full of allied ships - including a troop transport! Anyway, if you guys still have time, think about fixing this for GWX 2.0 if possible. It's unreasonable to start in a hostile port.

Thanks,

Kb