Noise

[silentwayIII]

I'm a big XXI fan and have modified my config and flotilla files so I can use this boat beginning in 1944. The XXI was a very sleek and quite boat with creep engine,s yet in GWX for instance, the boat is as loud as earlier uboats which in rl could not of been the case.

Last night, March of 44 , I was pinged by an escort (Evart) while more than 2000 meters away from it and doing 1 knot! This can't be real.

Is there a way to further reduce the noise that this quite Uboat makes so that it truly conforms with the amount of noise this boat really made. The AI sensors is, by all accounts, pretty sensitive, especially late war but a submarine like the XXI could not of made the same amount of noise as any other class of uboat.

Is the only alternative to use Jungman's slightly less uber sensor file instead of the GWX sensor file a realistic alternative?

Silentway

[Kpt. Lehmann]

I'm a big XXI fan and have modified my config and flotilla files so I can use this boat beginning in 1944. The XXI was a very sleek and quite boat with creep engine,s yet in GWX for instance, the boat is as loud as earlier uboats which in rl could not of been the case.

Last night, March of 44 , I was pinged by an escort (Evart) while more than 2000 meters away from it and doing 1 knot! This can't be real.

Is there a way to further reduce the noise that this quite Uboat makes so that it truly conforms with the amount of noise this boat really made. The AI sensors is, by all accounts, pretty sensitive, especially late war but a submarine like the XXI could not of made the same amount of noise as any other class of uboat.

Is the only alternative to use Jungman's slightly less uber sensor file instead of the GWX sensor file a realistic alternative?

Silentway

This is gonna sound a little harsh, but you'll at least get straight answers. I'll answer your queries point by point.

1) Creeper engines are not modeled in SH3, and is why you cannot activate them.

2) Operating your boat causes noise even at slow speed. Make sure that you activate 'silent running' to decrease it.

3) When you are being 'pinged' a transmitted signal is being bounced off of your hull and reflected back to the enemy sonar receiver. In a manner of speaking, they do not need to "hear" you at all. When the signal is reflected and received... they have you. Noise doesn't matter when you are being pinged. Your aspect ratio matters. (Read Appendix C in the GWX manual that was included with your download.)

4) Late war sensors are very sensitive and arguably quite realistic in 1944. From late 1942 to the end of the war, U-boat crews had a hard time even getting a chance to see the sky.

5) Jungman's Sensors mod is not compatible with GWX and will likely cause CTD's given the right conditions. Jungman did good work, but his sensors mods are very old and have been succeeded by other developments over the last year and a half.

6) In describing the U-boat war, the Type XXI is basically a conjectural boat and isn't realistic in terms of useage. However, even when used... it does not guarantee your survival against the increasingly superior ASW technology and forces.

Try adjusting your play style to match actual U-boat commander behavior and you'll be more successful. Eliminate your errors one at a time and remember what you did right as well as wrong. Otherwise, the AI mods in GWX will do exactly what they are supposed to do. They are your enemy after all.:arrgh!:

Sink 'em all!!!

[baggygreen]

Just because he pinged doesnt mean he knew you were there...

They used active sonar when searching for targets as well as when attacking. Is it possible that he was simply pinging away and got lucky? If he hadnt seen you and if you were at silent running, then it was just blind luck is my bet.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Just because he pinged doesnt mean he knew you were there...

They used active sonar when searching for targets as well as when attacking. Is it possible that he was simply pinging away and got lucky? If he hadnt seen you and if you were at silent running, then it was just blind luck is my bet.

You are correct. Just because you were pinged, doesn't always mean that they know where you are. Though you ARE in imminent danger of being discovered.

I was trying to keep it simple is all.

However, let me just say that 1944 and 1945 are VERY dangerous years for you in any boat. Our sensors mods are based on reams and reams of study, adjustment, and testing. They will remain basically unchanged in GWX.

That being said, it is NEVER impossible for you to evade.

You will have to think like a U-boat captain though.

Read Appendix C in the GWx manual and you will understand sensors and how to survive much better.

[silentwayIII]

Thanks for all of the answers, but a little clarification to this thread is needed on my part. When I was going at 1kt, I was in silent running mode. Whenever I approach a warship I am in silent mode...even if the warship is traveling at a high rate of speed.
When I got pinged, at 2000 meters plus, the escort had already begun to turn in my direction...so I assume, he heard me. Is exploratory pinging, or even random pinging built into the game or major mod? If this is the case, I could understand getting caught by a random pulse but this, I don't think, is a feature of the game/major mods.
I'm well familiar with the aspect issue when trying to evade or just plain getting out of dodge and so always try to reduce my aspect ratio.
I've tried Jungman's sensor file (w/o crashes) only when playing the XXI to attempt to compensate for the submarines lower noise signature and non-modelled creep engines. I think in this case, its probably a little closer to real...with the XXI anyway as far as noise is concerned. When I'm being pinged, its right on target if I'm within decent echo return range.
Don't want you to think I'm not reasonable in regards to the XXI's survivability...I've been sunk in that boat also. The thinking like a U-boat captain is a must and that is the way I play.

Thanks again.

silentwayIII

[Jaeger]

hi silentway

have a look at ducimus thread about the AI in GWX. THere is a small bug in sh3 concerning the ASDIC skills of the destroyers. if you are in the asdic range, later in the war they will ping you in any case. silent running or diving as deep as possible doesnt help you, the only possibilty is not to enter his pinging range, which is about 2000 meters. you can try this by creating a mission in 1944. set your starting point in 200 meters an let a destroyer passing this point. let start him in 25 km, so he cant detect you bevor he is at your position. stop your engines and wait for him. when passing your point, he will activate his asdic and he will attac your position. but if you are waiting for him out of his pinging range, he wont find you.

Jaeger

[danlisa]

Is exploratory pinging, or even random pinging built into the game or major mod? If this is the case, I could understand getting caught by a random pulse but this, I don't think, is a feature of the game/major mods.

Ok.

I'm no expert in this area of the sensors but, the escorts protecting a convoy regulary conduct extended sensor sweeps & extended search patterns in front & to the side of a convoy.

These search patterns must be observed and your approach must be plotted to avoid the routes taken by the escorts.

Now, as I said, I'm not aware whether it is possible (file wise) but I have encountered escorts who are in 'Passive' mode when just running with the convoy but when they conduct their extended search pattern, switch to 'Active' mode i.e Ping. This was late war.

Another think to consider. The convoy you were approaching could have already been on 'alert' status due to Aircraft attack or AI sub attack. This may have happened within rendering range but outside of visual range.

[silentwayIII]

Thanks for the replies. Jaeger, your explanation hit the nail right on the head. For several reasons I thought that there was something that automatically triggered a response from the escorts and this makes sense. I will do several experiments to confirm it, but I think you are on target.

Thanks again.

silentwayIII