View Full Version : Modder cooperation
From the SH4:WOP forum
Ive been thinking, we really need to coordinate better in the mod forum. Right now the big packs seem to be ROW, RFB, TM, Your campaign, and RSRD. About the only one that can coexist with anything would be row, the rest conflict somehow.
I'd really like to see that. There's elements of all of them that I really like, and I wish more of them would work together. We may end up with a "supermod" yet. :up: I would like to see it too. I like the big mods because you get a whole box of chocolates instead of one piece; but as Gump said "you never know what you'll get."
Ducimus- since you've been around for a while, maybe you and/or Leo, tater could spearhead this since both of you are well respected.
Couple of ideas here. One would be to have a modders "chat room" maybe once a month.
Other one is the mod developers forum. Since modworkshop only has one category, it's easy for things to get buried, and you can't sticky every topic.
The idea behind this is influenced by the dev model used by most companies- a smaller controlled forum for development and testing during the initial stages, and a larger public forum for releases and feedback.
The idea is to have a forum and divide it in a way that would be easier to make your way around for working on a mod while still utilizing subsim modworkshop for public feedback, releases and general user input. A dev forum allows you to have subcategories with their own topics under each mod category
I've put up a forum, but if someone else wants to put a forum together, or if subsim would sponsor a seperate forum, then can you guys push it? I'm too new around here, and people will listen to you guys and people like Lurker and Capt. Cox
Here's the link so you can see what I'm talking about as far as organization.
http://forum.kickinbak.com/
Another benefit is when someone's working on a surprise for their mod. They can make a private hidden category/forum where ideas and info can be exchanged easily w/o others seeing the surprise they're working on.
In addition, tech help and tool development are easier when they have their own category with sub categories too.
Since my MB's sata controller died and I'm waiting for my RMA replacement to arrive, I started going through this forum trying to find old topics with good tech info and consolidate them for a post on the other forum. You'll already find 2 topics with links under the modding tools category. No ways near complete, but it's a start.
I'm a little torn, personally. In general I'm not a huge fan of backroom discussions. A noob showing up (like me a few months ago) doesn't get to see the innards. I ended up trying to reinvent the wheel more than a few times because stuff had been done before, and only sometimes in the open where I could find the posts here.
OTOH, the signal to noise ratio can get kind of ugly with the sometime 1-line back and forth that can go on.
I'd hate to see all the interesting discussions move to a private forum, and this forum just becomes people talking about releases, or status updates. I guess I prefer a free for all think tank since you never know who's going to look at the problem from a different angle and suggest somethign crazy---that just might work!
tater
Ducimus
10-27-07, 12:20 PM
Well, when i said that, i meant more in the spirit of cooperation. For example right now we have two large mod packs.
-RFB (focused to be an historically accurate WW2 pacific subsim? )
-TMaru (focused to be a WW2 subsim, with the pacific as a backdrop, not neccessarily accurate in every detail.)
I also beleive we have two campaign mods
-RSRD (although im not sure its fair to classify this as a campaign mod,)
- taters improved campaign files
Then we have our man Leo, with a graphical mod
-ROW
If all of these elements talked to each other more, we could better coordinate our efforts. For example, RFB, and TMaru, should probably create their modpacks to where its row compatible. This allows leo free reign in his own sphere to upgrade, change as needed, and everyone bennfits from his work. Not just the modpack, but the end user.
Then theres campaign mods. One question ive wondered, is should campaign scripting efforts be more unified? Are Lurker and Tater on the same page with design intents? This is a question that only they can answer. But assuming it was then we have another module to plugin to large mod packs.
I think thats what im thinking of, modulaization? Im making the assumption here that what each of us is after, is the betterment of the game. This way, we can pursue our own goals, and still "play ball" with the others. I think everyone here has their own vision of the game, and everyone should be allowed to pursue it.
Which leads me to respond to Taters post. I'd prefer to keep everything on the forum, else why have it? When things are discussed openly, everyone benifits. One thing that i keep in the back of my mind in alot of things is, "ye old mod wars" from sh3, im not going to discuss that, except to say that it was ugly. My fear while working here has always been avoiding the "catalyst" which starts such things. My hope is that cooperation, communication, respect of other peoples designs, intents, or defintion of "realistic", will keep us all on the same page, working together.
So, in sum, i think theres two things i hope for, overall:
An open source enviorment:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source
Open source is a set of principles and practices that promote access to the design and production of goods and knowledge. The term is most commonly applied to the source code of software that is available to the general public with relaxed or non-existent intellectual property restrictions. This allows users to create software content through incremental individual effort or through collaboration.
And maybe more in spirit, modulaized development (Ie working together)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Module
A module is a self-contained component of a system, which has a well-defined interface to the other components; something is modular if it includes or uses modules which can be interchanged as units without disassembly of the module
I also realize that large modpacks bennfit the most from this type of thing, and modularizing certain parts of a mod is near imposible, but in the end i think everyone bennfits because it will cut down the confusion of "who's on first, what's on second sort of thing."
As an aside, i think this is the current situation with the end user of all the mods available:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEaKjRyPjVY
(You could think of this as the end user talking to a modder, or two different modders trying to communicate)
The ability to modularize becomes more and more difficult, sadly.
To make it ROW compatible, all the reflections on new ships need to be made right, for example. There's always some point where "working" version get converted to fit with another mod package I guess.
Also, as you suggest, overall design philosophy.
In a pure sense for the campaigns, there are a couple factors. One, and this is the easy to pidgeonhole part, is putting the right ships in the right places. Adding new ships is really a no-brainer in terms of rationale. You NEED a kaibokan, so you make one, or sub something in. Putting the right ships in the right places requires this.
Where is starts getting complicated (from a design philosophy standpoint, not from a "work" standpoint for the modder) is when you start thinking about AI skill levels. Playability, etc. If you have just 1 escort for a typical convoy (entirely historical for 1943, for example), then her in-game capability really matters. If you take the base design philosophy as "IJN ASW was horrible," then the 1 escort will be entirely ineffective, and the player will see most convoys as targets, the big decisions being how to best use remaining fish for maximum tonnage. Assuming that's not the goal, you might really need to have a more optimistic take on IJN ASW.
None the less, the lessons learned by one modder wanting certain things to be "harder" can also apply to the modder wishing to make things less hard, or even just as hard, only different. The more voices in the conversation, the better, IMO. I think there is plenty of room left for novel ideas, too. Taking something designed by the devs for one purpose, and turning it to another with some lateral thinking.
tater
Ducimus
10-27-07, 12:54 PM
>>.The ability to modularize becomes more and more difficult, sadly.
Yeah that is true. Now that ive thought about it more, about the only thing a fully modlar will work on would be ROW to some extent.
>> RE: campaigns.
Trutfully id love to see a unifed campaign scripting. This way when people come on the forum to brag, complain, or Where can i find X?, we're all on the same page. I also think that to adapt a campaign to a modpack, it is up to the modpacks "author" to sync it into his overall theme, and is not the responsiblity of the people doing the campaign scripting.
>>Where is starts getting complicated (from a design philosophy standpoint,
Also true, but i dont see this as a complicated thing. For example Im really loving RFB making a comeback! It allows the end user choices, based on what they think it should be and allows the modder to pursue his "dream game". Some of the design decisions ive made lately, i think were made because of wanting to "appease everyone", and i just can't do that.
RSRD and ICL are actually very similar, BTW. Making a TM version at some point will not be terribly difficult, just time consuming. Related to this thread, there has been much back and forth between us, but so much is the 1-line kind of stuff making things work that it might degrade the SN ratio out here. :)
I plan on a big ICL release after 1.4, along with a fully TM compatible version.
I always meant my campaign to be a testbed, actually. It started out as modded stock layers, but frankly in the current state, with the exception of the very late war layers, there is no connection to the stock campaign other than the names of the random groups themselves (ie: 42b_Jap_Convoy_043).
I'm actually a huge fan of RSRD, BTW.
:)
tater
Ducimus
10-27-07, 01:10 PM
I'm actually a huge fan of RSRD, BTW.
:)
tater
LOL i should D/L it and look at it just to see what it does. Maybe i could figure out what issues any TM users would have while running it over TM (bad thing to do).
I kinda hope RSRD and RFB take off, ive already laid out what intend to do:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=675238&postcount=1022
After which im probably gonna call it quits, or at least try to. I have to wonder though, if TM and RFB should build themselves around RSRD, or is RSRD a large modpack like TM/RFB?
RSRD is really the campaign. It changes things directly related to that. Adds 3d party ships, makes sure their (SH3 in many cases) weapons show up, etc.
The downside right now is that it is only phase 1. The later bits of the war are very much like my campaign was in earlier versions. Stock, but Zig-zagged. In fact, if you look at later war RSRD, and open the same files on mine, you'd be hard pressed to see the differences.
I think the best possible thing woulod be to figure out the important "fixes" in RFB and TM in terms of the campaign starts, flotillas, etc, and merge them all into one master fix. At a certain level there is only one "right" way to get the subs/commands built, right? We can easily come to some standard there. Assuming we figure out the ideal set of "flotillas" then all campaigns might as well use them. I borrowed RFB's for straight ICL, myself.
Then any campaign can simply change the patrol objectives, campaign, and various unit folders and be compatible.
That would leave certain stuff for the super mod. Like BP and DBW, for example.
Install order:
TM or RFB graphics mod
TM or RFB gameplay mod
Campaign of choice
TM or RFB campaign add-on correction (you'd need a version for each campaign, so one with ICL's Campaign.cfg altered, anotehr with RSRD's Campaign.cfg).
tater
Digital_Trucker
10-27-07, 02:22 PM
As an aside, i think this is the current situation with the end user of all the mods available:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEaKjRyPjVY
Totally off the subject, but thanks for the laugh. It's been a long time since I've seen that one:rotfl:
Back on subject. As a modder-wanna-be, I'd rather see everything out in the open where folks can learn and contribute (even if it is some "off the wall" idea that happens to work).
skwasjer
10-27-07, 03:44 PM
I've already promised (when time permits and S3D development settles down) I will write up a tech doc on the entire file structure (at least what I know now), the technology behind S3D and the new things I've discovered by myself (which are quite a few actually).
While there are a few topics flying around there's no central place where everything (publicly known) is documented (without the clutter of other posts), and/or it is horribly written and difficult to understand for newcomers. A forum is not suitable for this (imo) so I will most likely host it myself.
This is just the technical side though, and has nothing to do with how to do/achieve things in game...
I agree though that use of an IRC channel would greatly improve feedback/questions/troubleshooting. They both can coexist though, I wouldn't be to worried subsim would be reduced to just a 'release' forum.
You'll have Email,& PM.to discuss ego trips,drama,& show,but no tell. Subsim is about sharing fun,not making a click out of I:know: but I'm being:shifty: & that makes me:|\\
If the end user,can not find out how to,you limit forum freedom to share knowledge,& inhibit a community that wants to learn,:sunny: by scaring off new members. Do you want a community of know-it-alls,or the kindness of fulfillment of end user desires.
It would be administration by click,& kill initiative of wanta-bes.It would not be keeping members in the loop:nope: Keep Subsim American Adult Entertainment Free Press,Open,& sharing our best:yep: Humble opinion mine
Heheh.
I see openness as a "force multiplier."
tater
Heheh.
I see openness as a "force multiplier."
tater
My thoughts,& sentance structure needed more work. (Agreed),glad you got a laugh. Just warnings, percieved:doh:
Tater, the deperate forum doesn't have to be priveate, in fsct, the one up now isn't.
I just brought that up as a point because sometimes groups like gwx or leo and kriller don't want the development work to be public because until it's close to completion, they need the peace of working quietly with their testers and each other.
Other mods are developed and only released when completed with no notification and some are only mentioned here after work has progressed far enough for the modder to feel comfortable posting a WIP topic.
So in reality, little chages except for, as it was so aptly mentioned- the signal to noise ratio.
My point is a seperate forum makes picking only specific categories or subcategories possible when desired.
This was an idea because cooperation = communication.
Having been a beta tester on a few commercial packages and been the organizer for a mod that changed everything in a game- including a programmer who was allowed to modify the game code, things just went a lot smoother with a developers / testing forum.
To use Ducimus' thoughts. If you want to have mods be built with a modular approach, it would take a lot of discussion by the modders.
In addition, standards would have to be developed, agreed upon, and published. (advantages and disadvantages to this) This would require a lot of discussion among the modders.
And on the campaign issue, I liked your idea tater so we'll be trying it out. That is to pull the files that are campaign mods and put them in a seperate folder so in JSGME you'd see
RFB gameplay
RFB campaign
So if you want to use RSRD or your campaign layers, you simply don't activate the RFB campaign mods
Falls in with Ducimus' modular idea
I've already promised (when time permits and S3D development settles down) I will write up a tech doc on the entire file structure (at least what I know now), the technology behind S3D and the new things I've discovered by myself (which are quite a few actually).
While there are a few topics flying around there's no central place where everything (publicly known) is documented (without the clutter of other posts), and/or it is horribly written and difficult to understand for newcomers. A forum is not suitable for this (imo) so I will most likely host it myself.
This is just the technical side though, and has nothing to do with how to do/achieve things in game...
I agree though that use of an IRC channel would greatly improve feedback/questions/troubleshooting. They both can coexist though, I wouldn't be to worried subsim would be reduced to just a 'release' forum.
WOW, a tech document would be great skwasjer, but a forum can handle that. You have a locked category under game technical info that only you can post info in as you develop it. Then you havea seperate topic for input. This keeps the tech info seperate from the discussions, and you'll never lose the info in the forum's everyday communications. You can even link to a download for the document in the topic.
Did that on the forum linked above for modding tools. The "game files modding tools" and "graphics modding tools" topics are seperate from the "make modding tools suggestions here" topic. I haven't locked them, but the idea is public input comes in through the suggestions topic. The suggestions there will not get lost as the individual programs and links are copied and moved into the locked topics by the moderator.
So you have a location where the info will always be easily accessed and available, but can be built on with public input.
skwasjer
10-28-07, 04:02 PM
I understand it would be workable that way, but in reality I prefer more control over the structure of a document (using html) as well as providing it in a form ala help, several layers, links, custom (tree) navigation etc. Typing this all in an online form is just too much a hassle to keep it workable for me as an author, and easy to use for the reader at the same time. Mind you, it's going to be a lengthy story, and has to be cut up and presented in a structured way. Of course, a copy can always be flattened and posted in a (locked) thread though, and for discussing the doc a forum is obviously needed.
Anyway, I think the idea of more dedicated (sub)forums is good, in fact, I wish subsim would open more subforums. I think those massive long (30-40 pages or more) topics are bad and can be prevented by more dedicated (sub)forums. Just they don't have to be private, per se. Guys like leo and tater are always venting their thoughts to the public, would be a shame if they stopped doing this because they hang out more at private forums!
Anyway, I think the idea of more dedicated (sub)forums is good, in fact, I wish subsim would open more subforums. I think those massive long (30-40 pages or more) topics are bad and can be prevented by more dedicated (sub)forums. Just they don't have to be private, per se. Guys like leo and tater are always venting their thoughts to the public, would be a shame if they stopped doing this because they hang out more at private forums!
Geez, I wish I never mentioned the word private- the forums don't have to be- it's all up to the person controlling the mod, not the forum owner when set up right. I was just throwing a thought out, not laying down how things should operate. The only thing I'm blocking so far, on the forum I set up, is input into a topic that would create "noise", but then I've provided a public subcategory or topic for input / feedback.
For example- go to the forum and look under the download links in modding tools. I've been adding links to tools today. Only a moderator can edit the topiccs and add links under downloads. However, in the modding tools category is a "suggestions" subcategory where people can post links to tools that can then be copied by the moderator into the links topics.
When a person goes to find the links- that's what he gets and doesn't have to bounce all over the forum to find them (although a number of them bring you back to subsim in order to download them ;))
One thought about your document- wouldn't it be easier for the end user to download the file to use it? Some good freeware pdf file creators out there.
AVGWarhawk
10-28-07, 07:23 PM
Man, I like what I'm reading here!!!!
skwasjer
10-28-07, 09:03 PM
...
I wasn't stomping on your idea, I agree we could do with some more dedicated forums just to keep things more tidy and less cluttered, just for the record. ;) I mean, look at all the stickies, bleh...
On the pdf note, maybe. But I dislike pdf as a format itself, plus on subsequent updates - which may happen alot at least in the early start - people will have to redownload the doc. It may be good as an alternative for offline use, but not the one and only medium. :smug:
... I wasn't stomping on your idea, I agree we could do with some more dedicated forums just to keep things more tidy and less cluttered, just for the record. ;) I mean, look at all the stickies, bleh...
On the pdf note, maybe. But I dislike pdf as a format itself, plus on subsequent updates - which may happen alot at least in the early start - people will have to redownload the doc. It may be good as an alternative for offline use, but not the one and only medium. :smug:
Didn't think you were stomping on the overall idea, just seems people were hyperfocusing on the word private :)
Pdf was just a suggestion because it's a fairly tidy yet universal format for an offline reference. Any format you use will require some kind of action by the end user to use it as an offline reference.
BTW, is it ok if I pick your brain occasionally once I get my SH4 puter back up and can work on stuff again?
Didn't think you were stomping on the overall idea, just seems people were hyperfocusing on the word private :)
Just as you say,"freedom is not free",freedom of press is not also. We don't care how fast you wash it:rotfl:
leovampire
10-29-07, 05:00 PM
For the SHIV forum especialy the moder's and or mod's part. People can easily pick our brains when we are not busy and everyone try's to help the best they can with idea's and project's.
I like the idea of this forum and the way it work's now although there needs to be more help related Sticky threads that people are pointed to. Not a discusion thread but a tool thread with links to all the tools out there from DDS converters and so forth with an explination on how you do things and pictures as example's.
That would help handle all the question threads that keep poping up time and time again.
I was welcomed here from the start and a lot of people namly moders helped me out to under stand things and get me started on this road that I am on.
So I stay here and help to suport this forum. To break it up and or section it off to another one I don't think is the right way to go.
A lot of people have dedicated a lot of time here and have helped to keep it going look at the Moderator's information on how many years they have been around and how long they have suported this. Not months but YEARS!
To sudenly change to a new place for everything is a slap in their face's for all the hard work time and dedication they have put into this.
Sorry but this is how I feel. I don't plan on going to any other web site to talk about my work or anyone elses. This is home for me for the SH series of games.
Cooperation and help is apreciated from all as well as the flow of idea's on mod's from asking for new stuff to help making older stuff better.
You want a job or a mission that would help take on all the questions people ask and point them to the right threads and offer them help on what you know from reading all the related posts. Show them how to use the search options to find what they are looking for or find it for them then point them to it. That would be a lot of help around here if that is what your looking to do.
Or just mod and kick around idea's for new one's.
When you find a favorate bar or restaurant that you go to for months or years do you just switch to a new one because your told it is better to be trendy or are you a dedicated and loyal customer to the people who treat you well with the food and service and drink's you like?!
THE_MASK
10-29-07, 06:07 PM
We have a great basis for mods when patch 1.4 and the addon come out . Somehow i think the mods so far , as great as they are , are just the tip of the iceberg . I cannot see another Silent hunter game before 2010 . Supermods will fall into place . The game has only just begun :yep:
MONOLITH
10-29-07, 06:16 PM
We have a great basis for mods when patch 1.4 and the addon come out . Somehow i think the mods so far , as great as they are , are just the tip of the iceberg . I cannot see another Silent hunter game before 2010 . Supermods will fall into place . The game has only just begun :yep:
I agree with every word. :up:
I myself have big plans for the add-on. :smug:
MONOLITH
10-29-07, 06:37 PM
In regards to swdw's desire for a seperate website;
I just want to say that while I applaud his good intentions, the quotes below demonstrate exactly why the open forum community of Subsim.com is exactly where all of this belongs.....
Just wanted to add that i'm fascinated by this discussion
I've been out of the loop for quite a while but am glad to see you guys still tweaking files and doing your voodoo!
Just thought I'd kick in this comment: In George Grider's book Warfish, he tells a story about a time they were attacked by a plane while they cruised at 200 feet. A rather rude shock (as he relates it).
Keep up the incredible work guys! And...
Thank You!
The members, players, and fans get a great deal of enjoyment out of being a part of this, the modders welcome the feedback, and you never know when a lurker is going to pop in with a valuable piece of information.
Subsim might do well with just a couple more forum areas/stickies as leovampire mentioned, but right here is where the action, and the loyalty should be.
Neal, his staff, and all of the members have worked hard and for years to make Subsim what it is today. Seperating off the modders to some other forum, is not only unnecessary, but the wrong direction to go, imo.
Swdw, your contributions and desires might serve a better purpose, and be better received, by joining and assimilating into our community here, rather than trying to splinter us into seperate websites.
Cheers.
Ducimus
10-29-07, 09:56 PM
If one was to really get down to it, and cut the fat away, the best way to go on modder cooperation is simply to:
1.) share our thoughts on game or modding issues,
When tackling a problem, two heads are better then one, three heads are better then two, and so on and so forth.
2.) respectfully remember that we all have our own visions of a game,
It comes down to an old saying that goes along with, "I may not agree with what you have to say, but i'll fight for your right to say it". Or in otherwords, just because two people have differing visions of what the game is supposed to be, doesnt mean that can't work together to solve a problem. The solution to a given problem can, more often or not, be varied, and applied to a mod according the modders indivual vision.
3.) to not compete with one another.
compedativeness is a two edge sword. yes it can drive people to excel and innovative, but it also stifens collective creativity, the community, promotes the hording of knowledge or tools, and creates animosity. Everyone here should ask themselves, Are you out to improve the game, or improve your own online image? I like to think were all here to improve the game, so there shouldn't be any reason to feel like theres a competition. It should be all about improving the game, thats what got us here right?
Way i see it, so long as we keep these three things in mind, we should be alright here.
lurker_hlb3
10-29-07, 10:13 PM
If one was to really get down to it, and cut the fat away, the best way to go on modder cooperation is simply to:
1.) share our thoughts on game or modding issues,
When tackling a problem, two heads are better then one, three heads are better then two, and so on and so forth.
2.) respectfully remember that we all have our own visions of a game,
It comes down to an old saying that goes along with, "I may not agree with what you have to say, but i'll fight for your right to say it". Or in otherwords, just because two people have differing visions of what the game is supposed to be, doesnt mean that can't work together to solve a problem. The solution to a given problem can, more often or not, be varied, and applied to a mod according the modders indivual vision.
3.) to not compete with one another.
compedativeness is a two edge sword. yes it can drive people to excel and innovative, but it also stifens collective creativity, the community, promotes the hording of knowledge or tools, and creates animosity. Everyone here should ask themselves, Are you out to improve the game, or improve your own online image? I like to think were all here to improve the game, so there shouldn't be any reason to feel like theres a competition. It should be all about improving the game, thats what got us here right?
Way i see it, so long as we keep these three things in mind, we should be alright here.
Well said, totally agree
OK, pulled most otf the forum down. Couple pieces I'll keep for RFB. I don't want people to think I'm trying to splinter anything or slap anyone in the face.
That done and said, Here's the other side on where this idea came from. It's obvious Kriller and Leo communicate a lot in ways the community never sees, whether via PM or E-mail. Yet no one considers that a problem. Their testers post screenshots and no one in the community gripes that they aren't in the know about everything going on under the hood. Lot of stuff happening that the community doesn't see on a daily basis. Not meaning to pick on Leo, so you could look at GWX the same way. How much of their daily communicatoins are posted on subsim?
The discussion here is not a daily nuts and bolts talk like the communication happening between leo, kriller and their testers, so saying its the same is comparing apples to oranges.
All I was suggesting was offering a way to possibly better the method of communication among such groups. I even put my own money up, not to splinter the community, but out of a desire to offer something that might be of some use. I greatly enjoy everything Leo, Ducimus and others have done :up: and wished to do something other than just post the occasional feedback.
All in all, this was an idea that was carried through so you could see what was involved in it and see that, if someone did want to give it a try, it wasn't a pie in the sky idea that would never happen.
It was a suggestion, open to discussion, and open to feedback from the people that would be in a position to utilize the idea- if they so desired. And if they didn't desire, that would be and is ok too. The offer was simply laid on the table with an explanation of why it seemed like a viable option.
Since it's not an idea people like after talking about it, then it's time to chuck it.:)
MONOLITH
10-30-07, 07:34 AM
Just to be clear swdw, no disrespect was intended. And if all of your efforts are indeed purely in an effort to be helpful, they should certainly be applauded.
With all communities, everyone sees things from different perspectives. Consider how some aspects of this might appear to others; Yes, the mod teams do communicate with each other privately the things that they do not place here for the public. But you, as a fairly new member, are attempting to place yourself in the position to be the one and only single member to have access to every single modders private information. No individual here currently has that power, and for you to be putting yourself in that spot, might make some people uncomfortable. Especially when someone so new to the community, is working so hard to do this.
I'm fairly sure, that with a small request, Neal would easily give 2 or 3 forum spots to modding teams like ROW, TM, and RSRD etc, so that only those teams could access them. That would provide the same service you offered, but at no expense to you, and all the modders could feel comfortable with who had access to their information.
Hopefully you understand what I'm trying to say, none of it is meant disrespectfully.
Cap'n Spanky
10-30-07, 08:06 AM
When you find a favorate bar or restaurant that you go to for months or years do you just switch to a new one because your told it is better to be trendy or are you a dedicated and loyal customer to the people who treat you well with the food and service and drink's you like?!
That pretty much sums it up for me.... Sumsim has been my #1 daily read for about 3 years now. I may not post much, but I read and listen. To have to jump around to find what I'm looking for is too time consuming.... I like one stop shopping!
Just my 2 cents... spend it wisely.
Just wanted to bring this up as it seems to have been overlooked
Leo-
To suddenly change to a new place for everything is a slap in their face's for all the hard work time and dedication they have put into this.
Sorry but this is how I feel. I don't plan on going to any other web site to talk about my work or anyone elses. This is home for me for the SH series of games.
Monolith- I'm fairly sure, that with a small request, Neal would easily give 2 or 3 forum spots to modding teams like ROW, TM, and RSRD etc, so that only those teams could access them.
From my first post
Ducimus . . . I've put up a forum, but if someone else wants to put a forum together, or if subsim would sponsor a seperate forum, then can you guys push it? I'm too new around here, and people will listen to you guys and people like Lurker and Capt. Cox
Here's the link so you can see what I'm talking about as far as organization.
So even though this was part of the first post, it seems to have been ignored. Not something I'd say if I was trying to force people to another site. The issue arises from not picking my words carefully, so people seemed to be quick to jump on the "forum on another site" issue. (I'll take the blame for that happening- my words that caused it)
So using "separate forum" was a bad choice of words. They were used because, even though it's all on subsim, isn't SHIII in reality a seperate fourm from SHIV, as is Dangerous Waters? Unfortunately, when I used the words seperate forum, people interpreted it as seperate site, since the forum I'd put up to show what I meant was on a seperate site - completely understandable.
Just wanted to point out that from the inital post I'd asked if subsim might be an option and if the long term modders saw some benefit (not- hey you guys have to do this) in a seperate area, would they be willing to push for another forum here.
But as I said earlier, I've chucked the idea. I just felt that it should be pointed out that, from the get go, I included using subsim as a possibility.
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