[REL] OLC GUI for GWX 1.03

[Friedl9te]

Thank you !:up:

[Pisces]

My question is: why you say read AT an angle 54 degrees? Why those data? Can you explain it? It would thank for it to you. :D

It has a scientific base or it is a faith question? It is for putting the humor note.:pOk, I got a reasonable explanation now. ...

Edit: Nov.6 2007; Argh!! :damn: It's actually wrong. I ignored an important part about the scopemark-scale construction: tangent formula. Thanks to OLC for giving the correct formula)

If you set both 100 marks underneath eachother this represents a speed of 100 meter per 100 seconds, or 1 meter/second. Now if you look at the value above the 90 degree mark it is 2.3, where as 1m/s is actually 1.9438 knots ... How do I know this? Because of the formula (courtesy of OLC in private messages) of the scopemark value above the 90 degree number:

scopemark_above_90degree=8*arctan(basis/ (range*2)), (in 1.5x magnification) where basis en range are both meters.

If I ignore the hundred meter text on the range-scale for the purposes of this speed trick (and just look at the numbers on it) the formula becomes:

scopemark_above_90degree=8*arctan(length/ (time*2*100))

From this I conclude that if 1852 meters length in 3600 seconds is 1 knot, the scopemark value above 90degrees is:

scopemark_above_90degree=8*arctan(1852/ (3600*2*100))= 1.1790

Thus the correct mark indicating speed ( 1 knot) is not at the 90 degree mark but more to the right. The right angle is at arcsine(1/1.1790)=58.0 degrees.

OLC:
Remember to check/redraw ALL those scales, AOB may be skewed too. Earlier this year I worked on making my own circular sliderule for subsims with an AutoCAD clone program. (based on this one; also used by Redwine for a SH2 mod (http://www.gizmology.net/images/sliderules_54.jpg)) However I lost the file a couple of months ago due to a HD format. Plotting those individual marks was mind numbing work. I know. Well, that's what happend if you want to put in too many small marks. :damn: If I had any experience or knowledge of bitmap graphics programs I'd provided one for ya.

[looney]

So in an Ideal game we could coose wich ocular we use:
1 normal attack scope (top one)
2 hmm what's the propper name. AoB/Speed finder scope.

Cause I think it's a shame the rings block so much from the view, making below 1.5k shots harder than they should be.

[Friedl9te]

So in an Ideal game we could coose wich ocular we use:
1 normal attack scope (top one)
2 hmm what's the propper name. AoB/Speed finder scope.

Cause I think it's a shame the rings block so much from the view, making below 1.5k shots harder than they should be.

Yes, thats what I though sometimes.
Maybe they could be done bigger ?

[M00nStalker]

Hey guys,

New poster here. I've been following this mod for awhile now and can say it looks great. Unfortunately i'm having problems with it and could use some help.

I installed the mod and loaded up the game, and went straight to the naval academy torpedo mission to learn how to use it. no problems there. It works perfectly and I scored all direct hits. But now when I try to load a career save I get a CTD.

I've tried several different things to try to eliminate the problem with no luck.

*I uninstalled the mod and loaded up my Career save. It loaded fine.

*I tried creating then loading a new Career. CTD.

*I've tried loading with and without SH3 Commander. ( SH3 Commander was Rolledback prior to installation and the U boat folder copied over).

*Unloaded all non GWX specific mods and tried again.

I'm stumped as to what to try next.

Its so weird that it worked in the training mission but not a campaign.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Cheers.

I got the exact same problem now, did you ever find a cause or even solution?

[onelifecrisis]

Hey guys,

New poster here. I've been following this mod for awhile now and can say it looks great. Unfortunately i'm having problems with it and could use some help.

I installed the mod and loaded up the game, and went straight to the naval academy torpedo mission to learn how to use it. no problems there. It works perfectly and I scored all direct hits. But now when I try to load a career save I get a CTD.

I've tried several different things to try to eliminate the problem with no luck.

*I uninstalled the mod and loaded up my Career save. It loaded fine.

*I tried creating then loading a new Career. CTD.

*I've tried loading with and without SH3 Commander. ( SH3 Commander was Rolledback prior to installation and the U boat folder copied over).

*Unloaded all non GWX specific mods and tried again.

I'm stumped as to what to try next.

Its so weird that it worked in the training mission but not a campaign.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Cheers.

I got the exact same problem now, did you ever find a cause or even solution?

Yes mate I have good news for you: in every reported case of this problem it ended up being because the player hadn't applied the GWX 1.03 patch! Did you download and install the 1.03 update?

[M00nStalker]

Yep that did the trick, well actually the patch was installed but something must have been wrong, installed the patch again and now it works like a charm, very good job I must say :up:

[Jaeger]

That is correct for the firing triangle, however not for the other triangle. Look at this:

http://aycu34.webshots.com/image/32353/2000674106212530421_rs.jpg



There are TWO triangles here.

Triangle 1 (U-Boot to target triangle):

Angle #1: UBoot bearing to target (Seitenwinkel oder Zielpeilung)
Angle #2: Target bearing to UBoot (Kurswinkel)
Angle #3: Intersect of both U-Boat and Target courses

Triangle 2 (Torpedo-target triangle or firing triangle):

Angle #1: Torpedo lead angle i.e. how much forward of the target must the torpedo aim for a hit (Vorhaltewinkel)
Angle #2: Target bearing to Torpedo (Lagenwinkel)
Angle #3: Intersect of both Torpedo and Target courses (Schneidungswinkel)

Finally, Angle #4 (A subdivision of the Vorhalwinkel): Torpedo turn from its initial position in the tube to achieve the calculated Vorhalt (Gyro Angle or GA winkel)


thanks for this explanation. but i still have a question: i cant understand the difference between the Kurswinkel and the Lagenwinkel. Both words determine the same angle, but the Kurswinkel describes it in a navigational context, the other one in an attack context, right? you wrote as explanation for Kurswinkel "Angle #2: Target bearing to UBoot (Kurswinkel)". understood! and for Lagenwinkel, which should be the same one, you wrote: "Angle #2: Target bearing to Torpedo (Lagenwinkel)" why do you wrote to TORPEDO? I think it must be the same one, like Kurswinkel, means target bearing to uboot.

Jaeger

[looney]

So in an Ideal game we could coose wich ocular we use:
1 normal attack scope (top one)
2 hmm what's the propper name. AoB/Speed finder scope.

Cause I think it's a shame the rings block so much from the view, making below 1.5k shots harder than they should be.
Yes, thats what I though sometimes.
Maybe they could be done bigger ?

Most likely it would be impossible to "add" an extra Scope. I was thinking. of using the observation scope for it, or at least the layout. I'm not much into modding and I surely aint able to make such addition. But in my mind you would need to press a button and then switch to the "kurswinkel" scope wich has a completely different layout... only the kurswinkel thingy, chrono and space for the TDC. While the "normal" attack sope has the current layout with... stadimeter and firing buttons.

P.S. This is not a request as such but more a "brainstorming" session by me.
P.P.S. I hit a V&W DD at 4km wich was doin about 20 knots, thought that was impressive.

[Hitman]

why do you wrote to TORPEDO? I think it must be the same one, like Kurswinkel, means target bearing to uboot.


No it isn't :)

In the first triangle (navigational) we want to calculate the relative speed, bearing etc. from one ship to the other, for the purpose of knowing what the target is doing (Speed & course).

In the second triangle we want to achieve the trigonometric calculation for a collision between torpedo and target, whose result is the lead angle or Vorhaltwinkel. And because the torpedo starts from the torpedo tube, which is some 35 metres forward from the U-Boot centre (And from the UZO and periscope used to get bearings) the triangles are not exactly the same in the U-Boot/torpedo corners. The correction for that offset or difference between both triangles is known as "parallax" angle.

As you might already have guessed, that difference or offset also causes the Lagewinkel and Kurswinkel not to be exactly and precisely the same....but the difference is normally neglectable and already taken into account in the TDC calculations.:yep:

EDIT: Take a look at this thread for more info on the parallax/convergence problem: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=121744

[onelifecrisis]

Just to add something to the brainstorming session ;)

I agree that having the range/aob finder partially obscuring the view is not ideal, but there is a workaround: the marking lines on the range/aob finder perfectly match those on the scope (this is not a coincidence ;)) so you can temporarily close the range/aob finder and count marks using the full view, then re-open it and turn to the appropriate number of marks. This is what I do in the rare sitations where I need to. I know its not an ideal solution, but there is only so much space on the screen to play with. Also, with the new scratch mark at 14.something degrees (thanks to Pisces brilliant idea) finding the range at 1.5X zoom is now much easier, so you should only need to use this workaround rarely.

[Hitman]

But in my mind you would need to press a button and then switch to the "kurswinkel" scope wich has a completely different layout... only the kurswinkel thingy, chrono and space for the TDC. While the "normal" attack sope has the current layout with... stadimeter and firing buttons.


The eyepiece for the rangefinder and for the AOB finder are the same. In fact it is the very same tool what is used. The whole thing rotates 90º and can be used vertically (Distance measuring through mast heigth) or horizontally (AOB measuring through apparent length). That's why the external wheel is labelled "Basis" or base value and not "Länge" or length value. The procedure would be as follows:

1.- Up scope, identify target or estimate it,down scope

2.- Set mast (funnel/bridge or whatever) heigth in the basis wheel

3.- Up scope, measure distance, down scope, read result (The wheel moves coordinately through internal mechanism with the split prism handwheel and puts the result in the proper place)

4.- Turn the device 90º, set length now aligned to the distance previously obtained.

5.- Up scope again, measure horizontal length, down scope. Read resulting AOB (Again the wheel moves coordinately through internal mechanism with the split prism handwheel and puts the result in the proper place).

The second eyepiece is for an internal angle solver with graded scales for target and torpedo speed, or mini-analog computer (wiz-wheel) for calculating the Vorhalt angle for the torpedo manually in case of a TDC failiure.

[Pisces]

Thanks OLC!

Time to write the 1.5 magnification scope procedure down. Sorry for not adding pictures. I suck at that. I hope Friedl9te can get that done if neccessary. He did a good job earlier.

Getting range in 1.5 magnification:

1. Measure mastheight in the scope. I will name this "observed mastheight" or OMH for short.

2. Align OMH (directly, not multiplying with 4) to just under 15 degrees AOB scale. (the thin line once OLC releases the next version) You will see the "OMH times 4" above 90 degrees AOB.

3. Find target range under the double mastheight ( found in recognition manual;this step is just like the 6x magnification)

Follow-up to get AOB in 1.5 magnification: (previous steps are required!)

4. Grab the double mastheight point (on the basis-scale) and drag it further to the target length on the same scale. (same as 6x procedure again)

5. Measure the "observed halve-shiplength" through the scope. (make sure the scope is locked on target) I'll name this OHSL for short.

pre-6 explanation: The AOB of the target is now opposite the "OHSL times 4". But we do not know where either of those values are yet. We just know that the seperation between OHSL and quadrupled OHSL is the same as the seperation between 90 and about 14.5 degrees (the scratch mark means 1/4th of 1). We need the OHSL to rise (turn counterclockwise) this amount to find the right AOB. Thus....

6. Grab the 14.5 degree AOB location and move it up to 90 degrees.

7. Now the AOB of the target is opposite the observed half-shiplength (OHSL).

Edit: step 5 can be done after 6 if you like.

[Jaeger]

No it isn't :)

In the first triangle (navigational) we want to calculate the relative speed, bearing etc. from one ship to the other, for the purpose of knowing what the target is doing (Speed & course).

In the second triangle we want to achieve the trigonometric calculation for a collision between torpedo and target, whose result is the lead angle or Vorhaltwinkel. And because the torpedo starts from the torpedo tube, which is some 35 metres forward from the U-Boot centre (And from the UZO and periscope used to get bearings) the triangles are not exactly the same in the U-Boot/torpedo corners. The correction for that offset or difference between both triangles is known as "parallax" angle.

As you might already have guessed, that difference or offset also causes the Lagewinkel and Kurswinkel not to be exactly and precisely the same....but the difference is normally neglectable and already taken into account in the TDC calculations.:yep:

EDIT: Take a look at this thread for more info on the parallax/convergence problem: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=121744

Understood! Big Thanks, Hitman, i'll give you a place in my book of genius men.

[Koondawg]

Ive got to say I like this mod...and all the video OLC...good job mate :rock:

[looney]

Thanks OLC!

Time to write the 1.5 magnification scope procedure down. Sorry for not adding pictures. I suck at that. I hope Friedl9te can get that done if neccessary. He did a good job earlier.

Getting range in 1.5 magnification:

1. Measure mastheight in the scope. I will name this "observed mastheight" or OMH for short.

2. Align OMH (directly, not multiplying with 4) to just under 15 degrees AOB scale. (the thin line once OLC releases the next version) You will see the "OMH times 4" above 90 degrees AOB.

3. Find target range under the double mastheight ( found in recognition manual;this step is just like the 6x magnification)

Follow-up to get AOB in 1.5 magnification: (previous steps are required!)

4. Grab the double mastheight point (on the basis-scale) and drag it further to the target length on the same scale. (same as 6x procedure again)

5. Measure the "observed halve-shiplength" through the scope. (make sure the scope is locked on target) I'll name this OHSL for short.

pre-6 explanation: The AOB of the target is now opposite the "OHSL times 4". But we do not know where either of those values are yet. We just know that the seperation between OHSL and quadrupled OHSL is the same as the seperation between 90 and about 14.5 degrees (the scratch mark means 1/4th of 1). We need the OHSL to rise (turn counterclockwise) this amount to find the right AOB. Thus....

6. Grab the 14.5 degree AOB location and move it up to 90 degrees.

7. Now the AOB of the target is opposite the observed half-shiplength (OHSL).

Edit: step 5 can be done after 6 if you like.


It's late now and I had some beers, but I'd like some pics with it..

P.s. I like thinking about this stuff almost as much as playing SH3 :D

[onelifecrisis]

It's late now and I had some beers, but I'd like some pics with it..

V1.1 is done :D and I'll be making a video tutorial/manual tonight which will replace all my previous "documentation" and it'll include Pisces' methods :rock: (and a few new tricks of my own :up:) I hope it'll suit your needs.

It's not up for download yet - first I'll use the making of the video as a final test-run. The mod and the video will be posted at the same time :)

[Tobus]

Thanks OLC!

Time to write the 1.5 magnification scope procedure down. Sorry for not adding pictures. I suck at that. I hope Friedl9te can get that done if neccessary. He did a good job earlier.

Getting range in 1.5 magnification:

1. Measure mastheight in the scope. I will name this "observed mastheight" or OMH for short.

2. Align OMH (directly, not multiplying with 4) to just under 15 degrees AOB scale. (the thin line once OLC releases the next version) You will see the "OMH times 4" above 90 degrees AOB.

3. Find target range under the double mastheight ( found in recognition manual;this step is just like the 6x magnification)

Follow-up to get AOB in 1.5 magnification: (previous steps are required!)

4. Grab the double mastheight point (on the basis-scale) and drag it further to the target length on the same scale. (same as 6x procedure again)

5. Measure the "observed halve-shiplength" through the scope. (make sure the scope is locked on target) I'll name this OHSL for short.

pre-6 explanation: The AOB of the target is now opposite the "OHSL times 4". But we do not know where either of those values are yet. We just know that the seperation between OHSL and quadrupled OHSL is the same as the seperation between 90 and about 14.5 degrees (the scratch mark means 1/4th of 1). We need the OHSL to rise (turn counterclockwise) this amount to find the right AOB. Thus....

6. Grab the 14.5 degree AOB location and move it up to 90 degrees.

7. Now the AOB of the target is opposite the observed half-shiplength (OHSL).

Edit: step 5 can be done after 6 if you like.

Pisces,

It may be nothing to you, but this reads like Greek to me. Could you accompany this with some screenies to enlighten an idiot like myself?:oops:

[Friedl9te]

Pisces,

It may be nothing to you, but this reads like Greek to me. Could you accompany this with some screenies to enlighten an idiot like myself?:oops:


As a first AID look here and try understand the procedure, than you will even understand greek.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=682671&postcount=207

[onelifecrisis]

I enabled this mod while in port and JSGME didnt say there was any conflicts, but when i loaded up my career or even a single mission. The command room seemed like it was in slow motion and the mouse was very slow too. When I moved to any other station or the outside view everything went back to normal. The reason for all this is because I had the Elite u-boat crew uniforms enabled in JSGME. :rock: When this was disabled everything went back to normal. Just thought id let people know if they have this mod enabled because it seems to conflict with the OLC GUI.

Just to point out, this is not actually correct. I used the GUI with the elite crew uniforms, no problem, so did (at least one of) the beta testers. I tried to PM jonny to try to find out what his problem was but no reply.

[j_o_nn_y]

Well I don't know what happened then. I uninstalled my mods with JSGME when I found the problem and then put them all back on bit by bit. When I left out the elite crew uniforms I didnt have the problem, so not sure what happened there.

[onelifecrisis]

There you are! Please tell me, what are your system specs and what mods do you have installed? Also, which version of JSGME are you using? Please answer via PM, this thread is cluttered enough already. :up:

[bboyer66]

Couple questions.

1.After I input the data into the TDC. What is the next step? Hit the button again that brought up the TDC? Hit it twice like someone earlier posted?
2. How do you do a snapshot attack? Used to be able to just aim the scope at a particular bearing and launch, if the TDC was turned off. Now I have no clue. Hell I cant even tell if the TDC is off or on. All my snapshots seem to use data that was previously placed in the TDC.

[Friedl9te]

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=682671&postcount=207

Load the torpedoing training mission and attack the C2. following the screenshots.
What exactly do you mean with snapshot attack ?

[onelifecrisis]

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=682671&postcount=207

I've added this link to the other thread too (1st post) :up:

[Hitman]

On OLC's request, I'm closing the thread to prevent confusing people and cross/double posting. All info regarding this mod is now in the new thread for version 1.1.0

Thanks