Am I TOO good a skipper?

[jbt308]

Well, I know I'm not the best, but I'm just wondering if I'm sinking too many ships? Granted, I play on full realism minus the manual TDC, but I still think my sinkings are far too high.

I'm on patrol 4 I believe, and each cruise I rack up about 40-50k tons. I look at the log board back at Pearl and I've got something like 124k tons to my name, the next highest has about 30k. I'm running Trigger Maru and that's really it for gameplay enhancements. Is it because there are too many ships?

In SH3 I used manual targetting, but I would use the weapons office to calculate a solution for me, I didn't see that option in SH4? Or am I missing something? I'd like to go back to this setup.

Thanks,

[mookiemookie]

Use the manual targeting. Your tonnage WILL go down.

As far as I know, the weapons officer solution function isn't present in SH4

[jbt308]

I was sort of dreading that answer, as I thought the Officer option struck a good balance. I'll have to run some training missions and see how I do.

Btw, your tagline, awesome

[Sailor Steve]

Yes, it is partly because you encounter way too many ships. If it was truly realistic, a lot of people would never buy it.

[SteamWake]

It is after all a game.

[mookiemookie]

I think tater's improved campaign layers are a godsend. I really enjoy the reduced and smaller contacts. It makes sinking the big ones so much more rewarding.

If you see an unescorted huge european liner every day, it becomes no big deal. If you see one maybe once or twice a career and everytime, it's escorted by 3 DD's, your heart starts pounding a little faster when you move in for the kill. :arrgh!:

Maybe you should try that mod, jbt. It can be found here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=116283

[Rockin Robbins]

In my experience running manual targeting, cruise tonnage of 30-50 kilotons is difficult to avoid. I do not reload and double-dip a cruise. This is a defect in the simulation in my judgment, but it does nothing to lessen my enjoyment of the game.

Taking US war averages of 1 ship sunk for every 6 torpedoes expended, your load of 24 torpedoes should sink 4 ships x 5,000 tons for a decent sized merchant = 20k tons. It's easy to see that we're overachievers here from the average.

That's because we can get close to one ship for every 3 torpedoes. But it is a game and gameplay must sometimes take precedence over realism or we wouldn't have players. Every once in awhile I like to do a mission with super torpedoes and play a little Quake just to have some excessive fun.

[letterboy1]

Something else to look into is mods that make it more challenging. For instance the Natural Sinking Mechanics mod.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=118005

It makes it more challenging to sink a ship. Read the thread to see why.

[jbt308]

I believe the NSM is actually part of Trigger Maru, and I've had some issues with it in the past where ships would just refuse to sink.

As another poster said, I think the amount of shipping is way too high, and should it be lessened, sinking the larger stuff would be much more of a "deal" rather than seeing them on every cruise.

[AVGWarhawk]

Look at Taters mod and look at Run Silent Run Deep which I believe incorporates Taters mod. Much more realistic shipping and ship types.

[tater]

RSRD is different, but we share a few things in both directions (imagine that, "competing" mods sharing stuff!).

He used a few of my initial files as baselines, I've taken a few idea from lurker, along with a lot of help with my DCs, etc. I'm taking Momi, too for my next version :D

The two share many basic concepts, however, and are very similar in many ways. We both use the same tool to zig-zag, and in fact, lurker helped me with much of my scripting work until I got a better feel for it myself. We share a similar outlook on traffic volumes, etc. The real differences are that while I am starting to TROM base the heavy units, his TF/battle layers are mostly TROM based (all large units, basically).

I think that the TROM model has a ton of potential, my only concern about it is really replayability. Where possible some alternate paths for TROM groups can mitigate many of the concerns, however. Of course if a RL TF took X days to go from A to B, there is not a huge amount of variability possible in many cases to get there in time.

tater

[Digital_Trucker]

The NSM compatible hard core torpedo mod will help also. Warning, it does get rather frustrating watching all those fish running around in circles and diving to ridiculous depths under the vessel you are aiming for. It's available at http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=122205

[Galanti]

Well sometimes you have to be careful what you wish for.

I've been playing fairly regularly since release, and have always bemoaned the overabundance of targets and the ease of sinking them. Now of course, we have NSM, Taters layers and the hardcore torpedoes mod which are absolutely essential for any degree of realistic tonnage in this sim. And so in all this time I have never sunk anything larger than a heavy cruiser, and that only once.

Until last night...in the East China Sea, I came across 2 Hiryu CVs, and 2 Atagos escorted by around 6-10 destroyers and a CL. It was a fairly easy approach in heavy seas, and all the while I remember thinking, you've waited eight months for this, that Hiryu is yours! Thanks to the mods mentioned, I felt no guilt at yet another easy kill, more infalted tonnage, just anticipation at my long-awaited reward! I took my time, set my fish to run slow and at 20-30 degrees gyro to minimize duds and launched four fish at a range of 3200 yards. All four hit and the Hiryu went dead in the water and listed heavily to starboard.

I went deep and was immediately pounced on by the cans. And waited for the Hiryu to sink.

And wouldn't you know it, the damn thing never did.

[PapaG39]

Grab a type IID boat.
Unless you sink a ship with every one of the 6 torpedoes and every and ship you sink is 10000 pounds, your score should go down...lol..

[tater]

BTW, the DC mod I released (still kinda beta) can be used to mitigate TM's AI a little since the escorts will have fewer ashcans to drop on you.

tater

[Rockin Robbins]

tater and Digital can you quit with all these mods??????? I'm stuck west of Japan in less than 100 feet of water with this lousy minesweeper above me with a couple hundred depth charges. I put to see with TM 1.63, ROW vs1, and NSM, thinking I had the best of everything. Now I'm pinned down thousands of miles from nowhere and you guys are coming out with all these great mods I can't use until I get back to port!:damn:

Then Ducimus comes out with a new version of TM on top of that just to make me feel even better. :damn::damn::damn::damn:

[Digital_Trucker]

@RR (I feel like I'm talking to myself since my MotoGP personna is named RoadRash) I can't speak for tater, but for my part, I sincerely aplogize and I'll never let it happen again :rotfl:

[jbt308]

Thanks for all the suggestions....and work on the mods. I'm hoping once I get back to port I can try and implement some of them, bring my average down to more realistic levels.

Has anyone investigated whether the weapons officer solution is a viable option. Yet another thing that the devs have hidden, but which we can reveal and use?

Tater, not so sure on the nomenclature you're talking about when comparing your campaign overlay with the Run Silent one, can you sort of explain to a lay person? Just the bare bones sort of diffs?

Thanks again,

[AVGWarhawk]

Out of all of this I really recommend you go for full manual targetting. Getting the target speed and such can throw you off quite a bit. I run manual targeting and sink 4-5 ships per patrol.

Plus, once you get manual targeting down pat, it is a good feeling when all your calculations come together for a great solution and you hit the target:rock:

[tater]

Both my Improved Campaign Layers and RSRD are very similar in many ways. I started by simply altering the stock files, but at this point they bear virtually no relation to the originals other than the group names (and I've added to those, too).

RSRD is very similar in the are of random traffic (merchants and convoys), and really has the largest difference in the Task Forces and "battle" layers. The former are all based on Tabular Records Of Movement (TROM) for real IJN forces, so if you see a Kongo BB leave Truk on a certain date in RSRD, that's the date it left in real life.

The version of my campaign in TM doesn't have this yet, but my current version has some larger units done as TROM groups (BBs and CVs). The "battle" layers are the scripted stuff like the Battle of the Coral Sea, Midway, etc. Mine are pretty stock (Midway Excepted), RSRD kills mine in that regard. RSRD also adds many new ships and planes ported from SH3/SH3 Mods. I have a few new ships, but mine are all simple "bungo pete" type clones (cfg points at a stock dat) with equipment changes (my Kaibokan escort is a USN Evarts DE with all the US crew swapped for japanese, ditto the guns, etc. RSDS has a Kaibokan that is cloned with an altered dat bsed upon Clemson, apples and oranges at some level).

Mine really started as just what it claims to be, "improved" over stock, not the be all and end all of campaigns. RSRD is a grognard campaign with very accurate placements of ships (I mean that in a good way :D ). I think that when mine is finished (I'll make a TM compatible update at some point after 1.4) it will be better than stock (already is), and will have a proper historical feel without being 100% accurate in terms of this CA at this port at the exact date. My feeling with ICL is to keep the smaller ships in some groups that are random to keep variability up for replay.

tater

[Digital_Trucker]

And if you just can't stay off of the deck gun, take a look at

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=117763&highlight=real+deck

It's not listed in the 1.3 compatible mods, but I've used it for ages with no problems. It's good only for the 4/50 sub gun and it takes some fudging to get it to work with any other mods that change the cameras (ROW being one), but if you need any help getting it to work with other mods, I'd be willing to provide what you need to get it working. Basically, it destabalizes the deck gun camera so that your aim is affected by the rolling motion of the sub and slows down the rate of fire.

Okay, RR, you can open your eyes again :rotfl:

[Rockin Robbins]

And if you just can't stay off of the deck gun, take a look at

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=117763&highlight=real+deck

It's not listed in the 1.3 compatible mods, but I've used it for ages with no problems. It's good only for the 4/50 sub gun and it takes some fudging to get it to work with any other mods that change the cameras (ROW being one), but if you need any help getting it to work with other mods, I'd be willing to provide what you need to get it working. Basically, it destabalizes the deck gun camera so that your aim is affected by the rolling motion of the sub and slows down the rate of fire.

Okay, RR, you can open your eyes again :rotfl:

Just when I learned the maze they moved all my cheese!!!!!!:damn::damn::damn::damn::damn::damn:

[Frenssen]

In the stock campaign I often spent all my torps before reaching the patrol area. I tried the Run Silent Run Deep campaign, spent two months at sea, saw two aircraft and a couple of neutral sampans and I loved it:up:

[Rockin Robbins]

Well, I know I'm not the best, but I'm just wondering if I'm sinking too many ships? Granted, I play on full realism minus the manual TDC, but I still think my sinkings are far too high.

I have run your numbers through my double-layer abacus for 48 hours and have bad news for you. You ARE too good. A representative from SUBSIM will be calling at your house within 3 business days to confiscate your DVD. We sincerely regret any inconvenience this may cause but our obligation to protect scarce Japanese shipping resources outweighs our concern for your wellbeing.

Have a nice day:sunny:

[swdw]

I have run your numbers through my double-layer abacus for 48 hours and have bad news for you. You ARE too good. A representative from SUBSIM will be calling at your house within 3 business days to confiscate your DVD.
Have a nice day:sunny:

:rotfl::rotfl:

[jbt308]

Well, I know I'm not the best, but I'm just wondering if I'm sinking too many ships? Granted, I play on full realism minus the manual TDC, but I still think my sinkings are far too high.
I have run your numbers through my double-layer abacus for 48 hours and have bad news for you. You ARE too good. A representative from SUBSIM will be calling at your house within 3 business days to confiscate your DVD. We sincerely regret any inconvenience this may cause but our obligation to protect scarce Japanese shipping resources outweighs our concern for your wellbeing.

Have a nice day:sunny:

The wife always thought I was crazy for preparing for the men in the black suits, I've finally proven her wrong!

[Sailor Steve]

A friend of mine got arrested the other day. There was a knock on his door, and when he opened it there were police cars, tanks, and helicopters circling overhead. A man in a black suit said "We understand you tore that little tag off your mattress."

[jazman]

I'm pretty new to SH4, so I was amazed at the veritable plague of ships infesting the seas, it was of Biblical proportions. I couldn't believe the IJN was that huge.

Now with Tater's campaign layers mod I just ran a patrol with just a single ship spotted (sunk). It was a nice break from the monotony of sinking ship after ship after ship, limited only by how fast I could generate solutions and push the Fire button (and number of torps, of course).

OTOH, you just might be a lot better than you think you are!