View Full Version : The new (awsome) GWX aircraft.
I have seen the post concerning the new GWX AC, and was wondering, actually hoping, that these could be brought over to the pacific? Of course with more fitting skins. It would be cool to have the Buffolo and devestator stick around for the first part of the war, but also to have the newer, more acurate planes come in later. The Allies being stuck with out dated planes deep into the war is really annoying, as is the reason for this.
I do believe the Ausies, and new Zealanders used the Buffolo to good effect even into the last years, so perhaps they should keep this rotund little fighter.
mrbeast
10-12-07, 09:20 AM
I've seen those aircraft too very nice:up:
The General
10-12-07, 09:22 AM
I vote we kidnap Kpt. Lehman and his GWX team and force them to work on a Mod for SH4! Imagine what results could be achieved if we combined the talents of Leovampire, Kriller and Kpt Lehman!? Oh, the humanity!
Hawk_345
10-12-07, 02:16 PM
thats one of things stil left in SH4 that needs a little work on, i hope it could be moved over to the pacific.
Ducimus
10-12-07, 03:48 PM
I vote we kidnap Kpt. Lehman and his GWX team and force them to work on a Mod for SH4! Imagine what results could be achieved if we combined the talents of Leovampire, Kriller and Kpt Lehman!? Oh, the humanity!
That will never happen unless you can rewrite history and make the pacific a uboat war fought by germans. They are simply not intrested in the pacifc. Infact, without naming names, one of the gwx team compared the pacific submarine war to be as (in)signfiicant, as the "lithuanian navy"
one of the gwx team compared the pacific submarine war to be as (in)signfiicant, as the "lithuanian navy"
Well it could have been worser...go figure if he had compared it to the Lichtenstein, San Marino, Andorra or Laos Navy :lol:
Come to think of it, does that mean there is hope for a PWX? :hmm:
DeepIron
10-12-07, 03:53 PM
Infact, without naming names, one of the gwx team compared the pacific submarine war to be as (in)signfiicant, as the "lithuanian navy"
Not to start a flame war, but that's how I felt about the sub war in the Atlantic (not the comment about the "Lithuanian Navy" LOL...) No interest whatsoever... never even bought SH3 and will not buy SH5 if it's another Atlantic theatre sim... :smug:
Ducimus
10-12-07, 03:53 PM
does that mean there is hope for a PWX? :hmm:
RFB or TM is the closest you'll get. The atlantic theater has a much bigger following, so the intrest simply isnt going to be as great. I blame a film by wolfgang peterson. :88)
leovampire
10-12-07, 04:29 PM
But I am sure they are not willing to share them or part with them for this game.
Someone would have to start from scratch in making them. I do not have the tallent's for that nor the programs that might be needed.
I know that one of those guys in there has a $5,000 rendering / animation creation program so that helps a lot.
MONOLITH
10-12-07, 04:33 PM
I know that one of those guys in there has a $5,000 rendering / animation creation program so that helps a lot.
Check my sig. I have access to stuff. ;)
We don't need any help from the east. And judging from some of the behavior I've seen, not sure I would want it. :|\\
leovampire
10-12-07, 04:36 PM
I know that one of those guys in there has a $5,000 rendering / animation creation program so that helps a lot.
Check my sig. I have access to stuff. ;)
We don't need any help from the east. And judging from some of the behavior I've seen, not sure I would want it. :|\\
But it is not up to us to ask or say can you do this for a mod. This is something you would have to be willing to take on and release as a mod for the game. I am sure you would make a lot of people greatfull.
Ducimus
10-12-07, 04:56 PM
Guys, i would just assume that as SH4 modding goes, we are pretty much on our own. Some modders in SH3 might choose to help with various things as an individual, but collectivly expect nothing from that community. The SH3 modding community has a long sordid history, its social enviorment is pretty much set in its ways, and generaly speaking, its become a 1 pony show where just about everything is kept close to the chest in terms of knowledge and usage of modifcations.
OTOH, the planes should port pretty easily to SH4. I realize some things like damage might not be ideal, but planes to me are mostly eye candy. Once they get to the point you can ID them with binos, you should be making a hole in the water anyway.
In fact, many have already been made available for SH4. I might put them in at some point as an extra add-on, the only reason I didn't was that I felt extra stuff to load wasn't worth it when the only planes that I ever see are japanese, and only then as I dive to avoid them. Adding allied planes... I've NEVER seen an allied plane in SH4 except when I specifically waited and looked for DBW in TM. Guess I would for lifeguard missions.
Anyone sticking around on the surface to duke it out with planes probably shouldn't be overly concerned that they are the wrong planes, that's the least of their historical issues compared to not diving the second you see a plane (friendly or not) ;)
tater
leovampire
10-12-07, 05:27 PM
OTOH, the planes should port pretty easily to SH4. I realize some things like damage might not be ideal, but planes to me are mostly eye candy. Once they get to the point you can ID them with binos, you should be making a hole in the water anyway.
In fact, many have already been made available for SH4. I might put them in at some point as an extra add-on, the only reason I didn't was that I felt extra stuff to load wasn't worth it when the only planes that I ever see are japanese, and only then as I dive to avoid them. Adding allied planes... I've NEVER seen an allied plane in SH4 except when I specifically waited and looked for DBW in TM. Guess I would for lifeguard missions.
Anyone sticking around on the surface to duke it out with planes probably shouldn't be overly concerned that they are the wrong planes, that's the least of their historical issues compared to not diving the second you see a plane (friendly or not) ;)
tater
I have seen in game once they are set up. But they do not do patrol's like the Jap Planes do. You have to see a convoy or a task force and report it. THEN if an Airbase or a US Task Force is close enough it will send out plane's to attack.
When I started at Luzon and saw and reported a landing force the Luzon Airbase sent every single plane out over and over again to attack. Of course there were also a ton of pilot's to rescue in the water after the fact. But this was the result.
http://static3.filefront.com/images/personal/l/leovampire/93141/istqnapycp.jpg
MONOLITH
10-12-07, 06:14 PM
There is also a config file to increase the percent chance of allied planes responding to your report. You can kick it up to 100%.
leovampire
10-12-07, 06:16 PM
There is also a config file to increase the percent chance of allied planes responding to your report. You can kick it up to 100%.
Either an Airbase or Carrier force has to be close enough to attack. But if you make a contact report and they are close enough yes they will attack the enemy ships.
Ducimus
10-12-07, 06:16 PM
I have seen in game once they are set up. But they do not do patrol's like the Jap Planes do. You have to see a convoy or a task force and report it. THEN if an Airbase or a US Task Force is close enough it will send out plane's to attack.
Yup. But theres still a random chance if they do, or if they don't. This chance is defined in the airstrike.cfg.
So all told, this is why you dont see allied aircraft more.
1.) you have to find something worth reporting.
2.) you have to report it,
3.) make the dice roll if the the base sends out a strike or not.
4.) Have an allied base in range.
mrbeast
10-12-07, 06:22 PM
Never realised the allied aircraft only appeared if you called in a surface contact that was in range. Explains why there is a lack of allied recon patrols! That kinda sucks on the realism and immersion front.:down:
The reporting rules are so stupid, I never, ever report anything. Which would explain why I don't see them.
You have to be on the surface, within 4500 yards or something, right?
Any way to mod this? In RL, a sub would 100% NEVER turn on the radio within 4500 yards of targets. Never.
If you are that close, and able to be on the surface, you should ATTACK.
If they are able to attack YOU, then you shouldn't be on the surface.
Ideally, the report range should be at the bleeding edge of visibility. In RL you'd only report under specific orders (you'd be trying to shadow out of range of them), or after you had attacked, or if attack was impossible.
tater
leovampire
10-12-07, 06:27 PM
The reporting rules are so stupid, I never, ever report anything. Which would explain why I don't see them.
You have to be on the surface, within 4500 yards or something, right?
Any way to mod this? In RL, a sub would 100% NEVER turn on the radio within 4500 yards of targets. Never.
If you are that close, and able to be on the surface, you should ATTACK.
If they are able to attack YOU, then you shouldn't be on the surface.
Ideally, the report range should be at the bleeding edge of visibility. In RL you'd only report under specific orders (you'd be trying to shadow out of range of them), or after you had attacked, or if attack was impossible.
tater
What I do is pop up to 34feet once I have 3 or the main ships in the convoy or task force spoted by the crew. Then I make a contact report and head back to Scope depth and wait for orders. You take a chance on radio message intercept by the enemy but I always report every contact if it is day time so there is a chance for an air strike.
Ducimus
10-12-07, 06:27 PM
If US planes patrol or not, - i dont know.
Ive never seen them except a PBY near pearl once or twice. It could simply be theres not alot of planes defined in the airbase.cfg files and their spread thin.
Reporting contacts while on the surface.
I think the range is hardcoded, but looking at the contacts.cfg or similar file is worth doing in case theres a variable for this there, but offhand i dont think there is. Best way to mod this, is to further extrapolate and refine the visual sensors in general. We really do need a multpile visual node solution if you want elegance.
mrbeast
10-12-07, 06:31 PM
Yes the contact reports are unrealistic to say the least. In RL contact reports could be sent hours after a sub sighted the enemy, often after the sub had carried out an attack.
Primarily this was because, as you correctly point out Tater, you wouldn't want to be picked up by enemy RDF.
Best way to mod this, is to further extrapolate and refine the visual sensors in general. We really do need a multpile visual node solution if you want elegance.
I'm already working on it, actually. :D
tater
leovampire
10-12-07, 06:33 PM
Not a single US or British airbase will send out a patrol in any way shape or form. They only launch when a radio contact is made or if an Allied ship spots and enemy ship.
I have gone through all of this big time for my game trying to make the air bases launch planes on thier own just like the Jap's do. But absolutly nothing I do seems to make a difference in how they work.
The enemy has to be seen and has to be reported for Allied planes to launch either by you or by an Allied Ship.
At the Northern Coast of Luzon US fishing boats were attacked by a JAP landing force in my game and the Luzon US Airbase sent out planes to attack without my ever sending a contact report.
Ducimus
10-12-07, 06:35 PM
Best way to mod this, is to further extrapolate and refine the visual sensors in general. We really do need a multpile visual node solution if you want elegance.
I'm already working on it, actually. :D
tater
Get that working, and patch 1.4 or no patch 1.4 ill seriously consider releasing another version of TM. Would give me the opportunity to work in the latest NSM and ROW as well. IN all seriousness though, i have *EVERY* reason to believe their is a forthcoming patch, despite my silly nonsensical poll. :D
I couldn't find any reference to the contact report range.
tater
Even if I made it so you could be at radar depth and not instantly seen, that's not the point :) I think a radio report should be made from farther than 4500 yards regardless of if I get spotted doing it. 4500 yards is simplyy too close, I'd never report at that range even if I could, it would feel so unrealistic as to make any immersion I had go away.
I honestly feel that way about most radio reporting in game, the game in general wants us to be way too chatty.
tater
leovampire
10-12-07, 06:40 PM
Not a single US or British airbase will send out a patrol in any way shape or form. They only launch when a radio contact is made or if an Allied ship spots and enemy ship.
I have gone through all of this big time for my game trying to make the air bases launch planes on thier own just like the Jap's do. But absolutly nothing I do seems to make a difference in how they work.
The enemy has to be seen and has to be reported for Allied planes to launch either by you or by an Allied Ship.
At the Northern Coast of Luzon US fishing boats were attacked by a JAP landing force in my game and the Luzon US Airbase sent out planes to attack without my ever sending a contact report.
It is either hard coded into the game or there is a hidden file in the game that controls Air base patrols. Only the enemy is set up for Air Patrols no Allied Base. That is why the Dev's for patch 1.2 Personaly scripted in air patrols in the game so we would see them. It works the exact same way in SHIII both games are set up for Enemy Air Patrols only.
Ducimus
10-12-07, 06:45 PM
Well, yes, 4500 meters is too close. (game uses meters intrinsicly, so thats what ill say in dicussion). I agree its too close. But a compromise has to be used because we can't change this distance. The compromise being, make it easier (within reason, IE, weather and aspect to target permitting) to get said report off.
With current visual implementation, any change done would be blanketing, and adversly effect all units accross the board. Now If we could invidually handle merchants, warships, and aircraft... now were cooking with gas, and a compromise can be struck.
Well, if I cared about it (and I will at some point because as Baldrick says... "I have a cunning plan") I would simply make random groups of aircraft patrol (allied). They'll fly waypoints.
When I add in the reason to have allied air patrols, then you'll see them. For your own safety, dive anyway ;)
tater
In my tests so far, I have a somewhat reduced merchant visual and I can get within ~1000 yards without being detected at night. Never bothered to test during the day, i was more concerned with night surface attacks.
tater
Ducimus
10-12-07, 06:47 PM
@ leo
Read it. Thanks for clarification, i didnt know that.
Ducimus
10-12-07, 06:50 PM
It just occured to me, i wonder if a discussion, similar to this, is why NYGM had their merchant visual sensor, blind to their direct rear.
If your trailing a target.... good news, you an report it, and in terms of game design, who honestly tries for shooting at the stern of a ship moving away form you and actually hit it?
Course a fleet boat would end-around a merchant convoy if he had more than 3 neurons.
A task force, that's the target that you see, and can never hope to catch up to, or even close on much less end around. Those are the contacts that you'd report in RL.
Ducimus
10-12-07, 07:00 PM
Seriously, think about this for a minute. Lets say merchants are bind to the area directly behind them.In TM, given the map contacts mod, you woudlnt know this. Warships however are not blind.
So youd have to trail directly behind the convoy, keeping profile on just the warships. Any move out of the aft quater makes you much more visible. So its easier, but not with impunity. Plus it requires some manuvering on your part.
Nowfor the sake of argument, lets say your chasing 1 unescorted merchant.
If he knows your there, he zig zags, so he can shoot back becuase his movemnt places you out of the blind area repeatidly. Plus, due to NSM, you can plug him all day from the rear, but if the shots arent below the waterline, it does nothing.
Ducimus
10-12-07, 07:04 PM
Course a fleet boat would end-around a merchant convoy if he had more than 3 neurons.
A task force, that's the target that you see, and can never hope to catch up to, or even close on much less end around. Those are the contacts that you'd report in RL.
Good point. So in theory, assuming this works, then we'd need 4 visual nodes.
Capital warships (blind to direct rear, but large max visual distance)
Merchants (blind to direct rear, less max visual distance then escort)
Escort ( 360 degree, less max visual distance then capital ship)
Aircraft ( 360 degree, Larger max visual distance then capital ship)
No, it makes sense given the semi-bogus notion of reporting a group of merchants instead of attacking them in the first place.
But why not go off tot he side, flank, end around, submerge and sink them, instead?
Even the "fast convoys" I made in a few places can be end-arounded by all but S-boats, though it might take a while.
Wonder why they chose 4500m, it really is a rediculous range.
tater
Oddly enough, I have 4 visual sensors already built (counting stock) :D
Actually, with my first mod, I have 2 in the regular dat, plus the new dat with 3...
I can make as many as needed.
tater
Ducimus
10-12-07, 07:09 PM
>>But why not go off tot he side, flank, end around, submerge and sink them, instead?
Im thinking in terms of getting a report off, not so much as attack. Allowing an approach from the rear, you can get your report off, and your really not in a good position to attack.
At the least i think its feasible to implent this concept on task forces where you coudlnt catch them and end up in the rear anyway.
edit:
>>Wonder why they chose 4500m, it really is a rediculous range
Stock Sh3, max visual distance was 6,000 meters. Since Sh4 is built upon SH3, this didnt get changed when they upped the max visual distance to 8,000 meters. An oversight i guess.
leovampire
10-12-07, 07:10 PM
You might be given orders to attack or to leave it alone. It adds to the game. If you are told to attack it adds to the give list of missions and if you are succesfull you get extra renoun points for compleating it.
The USN would have always told you to attack.
If the contact is running away at 24 knots, being told to attack it will certainly result in mission failure, too.
If I made sensors with a rear blind spot, I'd be inclined to make an identical version without the blind spot.
Actually, is there anything that disallows 2 of the same type of sensor? Say you have AI_Visual (default) set to be a 360 small warship sensor for the DDs. AI_Visual_A is a Capital ship version with a wedge to the stern, but the range is rather a lot farther than the DDs have. Give the BBs BOTH. At the shorter DD range, they'd have 360 vision, but outside the DD range circle to their horizon they'd have a wedge open astern.
Actually, if this worked, there might be a new technique we could try. Make a long range (as long as appropriate for a ship like a DD to spot another large ship). Give it the worst possible sensitivity for that range to detect a ship at whatever range. Ideally, it would then be blind to a sub to some amingly close range. Say it sees a BB at 8km (assuming the max visual is 8km), but doesn't see a sub until 500m making flank, and won't ever spot a scope. Then add a second visual that only goes to 2000m, but dialed in so it can possibly see a sub depending on speed at night at 2000, but if the sub is good, he can avoid detection til a much shorter range.
tater
Ducimus
10-12-07, 09:18 PM
Truthfully, i dont send contact reports, so i could care less. I particualrly don't care to see allied planes taking way from MY tonnage :lol: So to me, a rear blind spot isnt that big of a deal. But it would give the added bennfit for being able to trail something to send off a report. Regardless the whole visual sensor needs revamped. I honestly don't know why they went with just AI_visual accross the board...... AGAIN. Im pretty sure DTB got his concept on visual sensor implentation to the games developers, but for the life of me i dont know why they didnt do it. Too much work, too little time to do it in i guess. *shrug*.
Well, new visuals might at least allow night surface attacks.
Course once escorts get radar that seems moot anyway.
Maybe I should put a dumbed down (a little) AI_Visual on DDs, and add a new radar. The new radar would be very short ranged, and could pick up a surfaced sub, but not a scope. Then the sub at night can sneak in to ~1000 yards, at which point the "radar" can spot him. When better (type 21 or 22) radar comes along, it gets replaced since that radar would spot them anyway.
Kind of a weird take on the type 13 problem...
tater
Actually, if this worked, there might be a new technique we could try. Make a long range (as long as appropriate for a ship like a DD to spot another large ship). Give it the worst possible sensitivity for that range to detect a ship at whatever range. Ideally, it would then be blind to a sub to some amingly close range. Say it sees a BB at 8km (assuming the max visual is 8km), but doesn't see a sub until 500m making flank, and won't ever spot a scope. Then add a second visual that only goes to 2000m, but dialed in so it can possibly see a sub depending on speed at night at 2000, but if the sub is good, he can avoid detection til a much shorter range.
tater
May I suggest you consider the heigth of the sensor? Since a submarine is not as high out of the water (When surfaced) as a medium/large size ship, you could simplify this all by setting a minimal heigth in the long and medium range sensor. That way, only large/medium ships would be see at long distance (Day or night) and subs would be spotted when really close :hmm:
Take a look at this concept:
http://aycu30.webshots.com/image/31709/2001322745610278417_rs.jpg
1.- A sub would be in danger of being spotted in any case in the red area, depending on light, profile and such. Can be used to fine tune the current visual sensor.
2.- In the orange area, the sub would be in danger of being spotted if fully surfaced or with scope extended. Decks awash should reduce the danger greatly, and peri depth exclude it.
3.- In the yellow area, the sub would only riske being spotted if running in the surface with a high periscope.
How does that all sound? Seems possible? I have no idea if giving the sensor a minimal heigth is possible, but the concept could be worth testing :hmm:
I vote we kidnap Kpt. Lehman and his GWX team and force them to work on a Mod for SH4! Imagine what results could be achieved if we combined the talents of Leovampire, Kriller and Kpt Lehman!? Oh, the humanity!
That will never happen unless you can rewrite history and make the pacific a uboat war fought by germans. They are simply not intrested in the pacifc. Infact, without naming names, one of the gwx team compared the pacific submarine war to be as (in)signfiicant, as the "lithuanian navy"
I won't speak for the rest of the GWX team but that is simply not true for my part. :shifty: I don't play SH4 mostly because of my machine and video card but will return once I get a new system. I really like both...just as I fly both "red and blue" in Il-2.
does that mean there is hope for a PWX? :hmm:
RFB or TM is the closest you'll get. The atlantic theater has a much bigger following, so the intrest simply isnt going to be as great. I blame a film by wolfgang peterson. :88)
:rotfl:
Maybe one should blame movies like Operation Petticoat? :lol:
KrvKpt. Falke
10-13-07, 06:42 AM
And "U-571"? :arrgh!:
Seriously - It has very little to do with movies...
AVGWarhawk
10-13-07, 06:58 AM
I vote we kidnap Kpt. Lehman and his GWX team and force them to work on a Mod for SH4! Imagine what results could be achieved if we combined the talents of Leovampire, Kriller and Kpt Lehman!? Oh, the humanity!
That will never happen unless you can rewrite history and make the pacific a uboat war fought by germans. They are simply not intrested in the pacifc. Infact, without naming names, one of the gwx team compared the pacific submarine war to be as (in)signfiicant, as the "lithuanian navy"
Well, I'm glad the GWX team is the forward leading authority on the matters in the Pacific as they chose to grind away their time in the Atlantic. Is that such a fair statement by the "unnamed one"? Sounds like a personal opinion to me.
SH4 will be modded as it is now, teams are already working on bits and pieces of the game. The foundation has been set. I beg to differ that there is no interest in the PTO. The last 3 years the only game to play was SH3 with a side dish of GWX to keep the appetite wet. I would suspect that quite a few will and are tired of the same old hash on the plate. Time for a menu change. I changed my menu. Sh3 is back on the shelf. Stating that there is no interest in the PTO followed up by someone on the GWX team as confirmation is a serious overgeneralization.
Come on Duci, look at the new faces in SH4 and for the love of the game are modding like mad! There are plenty that love the PTO and now that these individuals have a canvas to paint a new game, it will florish. The interested ones are doing their thing and it is growing.
SH3 out of the box was good for about 3 months on my computer. GWX wet my apetite and brought me back in. I want to grow with SH4 and read the books, watch the movies with just as much furver as I did with the ETO and SH3. It has already begun.
skwasjer
10-13-07, 07:29 AM
I agree with Duci though, I hope this place never inherits the SH3 secret service tactics where everything is kept behind closed doors, or you get hammered if you don't follow 'strict' rules. Modding is about sharing and learning as a community. Not as an individual. I hope we keep that spirit in here ;)
Uber Gruber
10-13-07, 07:39 AM
agree with Duci though, I hope this place never inherits the SH3 secret service tactics where everything is kept behind closed doors, or you get hammered if you don't follow 'strict' rules. Modding is about sharing and learning as a community. Not as an individual. I hope we keep that spirit in here ;)
Well said that man, too much sillyness in the SH3 forums, and lots of petty squabbles to boot. There is.....is not....IS...IS NOT :nope:
agree with Duci though, I hope this place never inherits the SH3 secret service tactics where everything is kept behind closed doors, or you get hammered if you don't follow 'strict' rules. Modding is about sharing and learning as a community. Not as an individual. I hope we keep that spirit in here ;)
Well said that man, too much sillyness in the SH3 forums, and lots of petty squabbles to boot. There is.....is not....IS...IS NOT :nope:
Yet, most of whom started it are now here on the SHIV forums. :roll:
Good idea hitman. I will try it.
FWIW, I tried the 2 visual sensor idea last night, and it didn't seem to work. The outer band certainly DID work, the sub was not detected, but even though I added a second O node to minekaze to test, but I'm not sure the game will use it.
Given that they almost all get radar later anyway, it seems like adding a fake early radar that only can detect a sub very close might be the way to go.
tater
Ducimus
10-13-07, 11:42 AM
agree with Duci though, I hope this place never inherits the SH3 secret service tactics where everything is kept behind closed doors, or you get hammered if you don't follow 'strict' rules. Modding is about sharing and learning as a community. Not as an individual. I hope we keep that spirit in here ;)
Well said that man, too much sillyness in the SH3 forums, and lots of petty squabbles to boot. There is.....is not....IS...IS NOT :nope:
Yet, most of whom started it are now here on the SHIV forums. :roll:
Bullschit.
Like everything that doesnt suit your mindset. :roll:
Ducimus
10-13-07, 11:52 AM
You picking a fight with me?
Your head is so far up KL's ass, you probably need a snorkel to ****ing breath.
No sir, I'm not picking a fight with you. Are you picking one with me? BTW, could you remove the word 'ass' from your post, I find it every offensive.
Ducimus
10-13-07, 11:58 AM
No sir, I'm not picking a fight with you. Are you picking one with me?
You already did. If your not here to help with modding SH4, then stop trolling and go back whence you came.
edit: and no im not, i said what i meant to say. I don't give a rats ass if the word offends you or not.
Edit:
*sigh*
This folks is the GWX "Good ole boy" net work, in action. Subtle jabs, but surgically made to strike the right cords. Its always a propaganda war, of which they always win. Now i remember why i stopped posting here for awhile. I need to make good on that and not come here anymore. Kinda like how other modders did, and why SH3 modding is a 1 pony show. No game is worth these types of "reindieer games" screw this crap, it will never end.
Jimbuna
10-13-07, 12:00 PM
Is that sort of language really warranted :nope:
I play both, but obviously more of 3 at the moment.
If the progress made with 3 can be achieved with 4 then we are all looking at two awesome pieces of kit :rock:
As I see it at this minute, it is early days for 4 and with all due respect to those that are currently working on 4 the most successful techno-magers to date are still resident in the GWX Team.
Perhaps in a year or two I will be proven wrong....but at this precise moment in time the bar has been set by those in the Atlantic. :know:
MONOLITH
10-13-07, 12:08 PM
Well, I'm glad the GWX team is the forward leading authority on the matters in the
Pacific as they chose to grind away their time in the Atlantic. Is that such a fair statement by the "unnamed
one"? Sounds like a personal opinion to me.
agree with Duci though, I hope this place never inherits the SH3 secret service tactics
where everything is kept behind closed doors, or you get hammered if you don't follow 'strict' rules.
Modding is about sharing and learning as a community. Not as an individual. I hope we keep that spirit in
here
Like I said....
And Judging from some of the behavior I've seen, not sure I would want it.
Sometimes people become big fish in a little pond and it gets to their head. GWX is a nice mod, and I respect what they've done. But it's still just some file tweaks.
I've had my name in PC gamer magazine for my mod work. You don't see me acting like I'm some corporation that now sets the standards and rules for all of Subsim members.
Lighten up, it's just game modding for crying out loud. And outside of this community, you're still no one.
Like I said, Kudos to them for their file tweaks and skins. I use them myself. But some of the behaviors I've seen, the attacks on other forum members, the condescension towards other modders; it's a bit over the top and shameful.
There's a ton of other great mod work being done on SH3, outside of GWX. Venatore's stuff, Racerboys SH4 effects and other things. I don't see them trying to be the ruling authority of modding at Subsim.com.
GWX is okay, but they need to get over themselves just a tad in my opinion.
I realize these are fighting words, and you can flame away at me. But that is just how I honestly see things occurring lately.
Sorry. Not really looking for any conflicts, but I needed to get that off my chest after some things I've seen recently.
MONOLITH
10-13-07, 12:10 PM
with all due respect to those that are currently working on 4 the most successful techno-magers to date are still resident in the GWX Team.
Wow.
:nope:
Leo and Kriller...carry on with your head held high.
No sir, I'm not picking a fight with you. Are you picking one with me?
You already did. If your not here to help with modding SH4, then stop trolling and go back whence you came.
edit: and no im not, i said what i meant to say. I don't give a rats ass if the word offends you or not.
*sigh*
This folks is the GWX "Good ole boy" net work, in action. Sublte, jabs, but surgically made to strike the right cords. Its always a propaganda war, of which they always win. Now i remember why i stopped posting here for awhile. I need to make good on that and not come here anymore. Kinda like how other modders did, and why SH3 modding is a 1 pony show. No game is worth these types of "reidieer games" screw this crap, it will never end.
Now, what did I say on post #57 regarding your post (#56). :up: The same applies here.
Jimbuna
10-13-07, 12:15 PM
with all due respect to those that are currently working on 4 the most successful techno-magers to date are still resident in the GWX Team.
Wow.
:nope:
Leo and Kriller...carry on with your head held high.
@Leo and Kriller
Salute :up:
@MONOLITH
I gave an honest opinion in a respective/respectful tone....it's a shame you chose not to quote me in my entirity :nope:
Ducimus
10-13-07, 12:25 PM
I thought Monoth's post was spot on. Its what ive been thinking for months (years?), but couldnt quite find the words to say. And even if i had, if *I* said them, the entire GWX "crew" with KL leading the charge would be over here with pitchforks in hand. Kinda like how you two are. Only KL is much more direct, and blunt. (my posting style as well ironically) Personally, i am ashamed i was ever on the GWX crew (however short my stay was), and equally ashamed of some of the things i did to promote/further that modpack. yes i am very much guillty of cloak and dagger shennnaigans over there, and when it comes to GWX, i am a little bit more educated then the masses here who pile praise upon praise on the mod, thinking its "all that and a bag of chips". I know better.
In a way i should thank you guys, youve reinforced what ive thought, and well, ill be able to move on to other projects with a clear concience. Ive been looking at moving moving on to modding for oblivion because the scripting there is open and very powerful, you can do some amazing things with that editor. Since i have a small background in programming C++, i might stand to make some good stuff there. An idea for a project already formed, and honestly i want to do that instead of this crap.
Well maybe we see each other on the Oblivion forums then! I'm a fan on Oblivion. :up:
Oh BTW, I never ever invited Jimbuna here, nor have I ever invited anyone to back me up on anything. So, let's see the post #57 again, shall we. :up:
Jimbuna
10-13-07, 01:16 PM
I thought Monoth's post was spot on. Its what ive been thinking for months (years?), but couldnt quite find the words to say. And even if i had, if *I* said them, the entire GWX "crew" with KL leading the charge would be over here with pitchforks in hand. Kinda like how you two are. Only KL is much more direct, and blunt. (my posting style as well ironically) Personally, i am ashamed i was ever on the GWX crew (however short my stay was), and equally ashamed of some of the things i did to promote/further that modpack. yes i am very much guillty of cloak and dagger shennnaigans over there, and when it comes to GWX, i am a little bit more educated then the masses here who pile praise upon praise on the mod, thinking its "all that and a bag of chips". I know better.
In a way i should thank you guys, youve reinforced what ive thought, and well, ill be able to move on to other projects with a clear concience. Ive been looking at moving moving on to modding for oblivion because the scripting there is open and very powerful, you can do some amazing things with that editor. Since i have a small background in programming C++, i might stand to make some good stuff there. An idea for a project already formed, and honestly i want to do that instead of this crap.
The only way an accurate response based on a quotation can be deemed "spot on" should be if that quote is judged and quoted in it's entirity.
I do not have a pitch fork about my person and if you care to look at my initial post I was simply enquiring if the subjective language you had resorted to was "warranted"
As for your feelings of shame that you were ever associated with your peers on GWX, how can I possibly comment ? That is clearly your perception. If that perception is reciprocated by those who were also on GWX at the time, only they would be in a position to say.
I have the ability to be as you say "direct and blunt" in the way I communicate with people both in and out of work. I do not feel or accept that any of my previous posts on this particular thread can be justifiably described as such.
If your as educated as you state, why not demonstrate that level of educational attainment by refraining from labelling "the masses here" as less well educated people to yourself ? How arrogant and presumptious of you sir. :nope:
Furthermore, why do you feel the need to resort to subjective language in the first place ?
To the best of my knowledge I have never attacked you on the SS forum. In fact, IIRC I have actually supported some of your posts/views in the past.
I have absolutely no problem with being held accountable and facing the consequences for anything I do in life. But I do have a problem when somebody feels they have the right to attach any level of perceptual distortion or understanding to something I have written to suit their own agenda.
None of us are as clever as all of us.
MONOLITH
10-13-07, 05:35 PM
Jimbuna, I apologize that you feel I wronged you for not quoting your post in it's entirety.
So, respectfully, here is your entire quote below.
Now we can view the entire thing, and see that it still basically says "No one over here yet is as good as the GWX people."
1. That's fairly disrespectful to a lot of talented modders over here.
2. It's purely opinion. We are entitled to our opinions of course, but seeing as how that one in particular is more hurtful to the community than constructive, perhaps it would have been best kept to yourself.
The real sad thing here, is how certain people have chosen to divide up Subsim in this way. Which brings us right back to my original comment.
Is that sort of language really warranted :nope:
I play both, but obviously more of 3 at the moment.
If the progress made with 3 can be achieved with 4 then we are all looking at two awesome pieces of kit :rock:
As I see it at this minute, it is early days for 4 and with all due respect to those that are currently working on 4 the most successful techno-magers to date are still resident in the GWX Team.
Perhaps in a year or two I will be proven wrong....but at this precise moment in time the bar has been set by those in the Atlantic. :know:
JScones
10-13-07, 07:27 PM
I agree with Duci though, I hope this place never inherits the SH3 secret service tactics where everything is kept behind closed doors, or you get hammered if you don't follow 'strict' rules. Modding is about sharing and learning as a community. Not as an individual. I hope we keep that spirit in here
No clandestine behaviour, no secret squirrel club and no "in house" cryptic messages (always ending with ;))? And no constant digs at anyone that doesn't agree with their approach?
How novel. :up: :rock:
This folks is the GWX "Good ole boy" net work, in action. Subtle jabs, but surgically made to strike the right cords. Its always a propaganda war, of which they always win.
Hehe, it may seem to *you* that they win, but in doing so they just bring their credibility amongst their peers down that little bit more...just re-read this thread. ;)
As I see it at this minute, it is early days for 4 and with all due respect to those that are currently working on 4 the most successful techno-magers to date are still resident in the GWX Team.
Perhaps in a year or two I will be proven wrong....but at this precise moment in time the bar has been set by those in the Atlantic. :know:
:o OMFG! How arrogant! I would never have expected this from *you* jimbuna, someone I've always held in high regard. :nope: Single handedly you've drawn the "dividing line" between SH3 and SH4... Well done.
And your comment is doubly insulting in that it dismisses the great SH3 work of Racerboy, Denis, Anvart, Diving Duck and other "non-GWX team" modders (not forgetting also those who have left the team), which in many instances is on par, if not superior to, the GWX product. Just ask Lehmann himself about that one. ;)
Personally, i am ashamed i was ever on the GWX crew (however short my stay was), and equally ashamed of some of the things i did to promote/further that modpack. yes i am very much guillty of cloak and dagger shennnaigans over there, and when it comes to GWX, i am a little bit more educated then the masses here who pile praise upon praise on the mod, thinking its "all that and a bag of chips". I know better.
You know, since leaving the GWX team and seeing it from "the other side" I agree with you. You get a different perspective "outside looking in". Don't get me wrong, there's some *great* guys in the team that would prefer just to get on and weave their magic (which they do very well, considering they've had over two years to learn), but then there is the "public face"...
@MONOLITH: Well said. :up: :rock:
@SH4 modders: Don't let the elitist attitude of some of the GWX team get you down - your stuff rocks. :up: :rock:
leovampire
10-13-07, 07:55 PM
I always strive to make the game and mod's better take it or leave it at least we are trying. And if other's in the comunity who have had years of practice with one game vs can achieve some new and wonderfull stuff that is awsome. But a lot of us here are new at the modding world especialy for this new vs of the SH series.
I think it has come a log way in a short time with what we have done with little experience and without proven skill's. Sure it is easy to bring here what you have done there for years and accomplish a lot in short order. But how long did it take them to be at the point they are now in abilities?!
I made a mistake by going over there and said great work on the new plane's. It got people to notice it on both side's of the track and now there are problem's here that shouldn't be here and havn't until now!
We are trying to stay a comunity that works together on the SHIV game both modder's and users alike. If you want to leave the SHIII part of the forums and come here and play nice your welcome but if you come here to start problems go back and keep them there where they belong.
Just ask Lehmann himself about that one. ;)
Yes - we all know about that episode, so could you please give those 'little hints' a rest mate..... There's no need. :doh:
MONOLITH
10-13-07, 08:24 PM
@MONOLITH: Well said. :up: :rock:
Thanks.
Oh god. How can ppl be so fecking hypocrite?! Without GWX, and it's achievements there would not be Trigger Maru or any of the mods for SHIV as we see them now, AND THAT IS A FACT. Anyone who says otherwise is just boasting his ego in front of a mirror with his cock on his hand.
Think people! SH3 & Sh4 is the same fecking thing! "Ohhh yeah, we have great modders for SH4" Hmm... They would be modding sounds or sub skins without the SH3.
JScones
10-13-07, 09:17 PM
^^^^^
THIS everyone, is part of the public face of GWX. And we haven't heard from the others yet either.
Do you really want this attitude over here?
[edit - inappropriate language!]
Ducimus started this on post #5 and blew it on post #12. [edit - inappropriate language!]
AVGWarhawk
10-13-07, 09:21 PM
Oh god. How can ppl be so fecking hypocrite?! Without GWX, and it's achievements there would not be Trigger Maru or any of the mods for SHIV as we see them now, AND THAT IS A FACT. Anyone who says otherwise is just boasting his ego in front of a mirror with his cock on his hand.
Think people! SH3 & Sh4 is the same fecking thing! "Ohhh yeah, we have great modders for SH4" Hmm... They would be modding sounds or sub skins without the SH3.
Yah know, I never really cared for ferrets. I find it hard to believe that no others would have figured it out eventually. If you don't believe that then you have a lot to learn. Last time I checked, SH3 was not the first game to be modded nor will it be the last. Furthermore, grow up with your comments.
[edit - inappropriate language!]
[edit - inappropriate language!]
leovampire
10-13-07, 09:24 PM
This is supose to be in the SHIII forum not here until now we didn't have this problem here can we please take it some where else so new mod idea's and releases and questions from people using them or who want them can post without being Drowned out?!
Show some respect and take it to SHIII where it has been going on for years this has nothing to do with the SHIV mod forum.
Somethings were said here that shouldn't have been granted but there is no need for this here and it is not wanted or needed thanks!
MONOLITH
10-13-07, 09:29 PM
Oh god. How can ppl be so fecking hypocrite?! Without GWX, and it's achievements there would not be Trigger Maru or any of the mods for SHIV as we see them now, AND THAT IS A FACT. Anyone who says otherwise is just boasting his ego in front of a mirror with his cock on his hand.
Think people! SH3 & Sh4 is the same fecking thing! "Ohhh yeah, we have great modders for SH4" Hmm... They would be modding sounds or sub skins without the SH3.
Wow.
You really think no one else in the world would ever open a cfg file with notepad without GWX.
Heh. Now that really is funny. And sad all at the same time.
Your statement here has really proven the points you are so angry about.
What in the world could possibly make someone act this way.
AVGWarhawk
10-13-07, 09:38 PM
Sorry men, I do not the ability to remove Dowlys posts. The other moderators who have control of this forum have been made away of this thread. When one signs on he can delete the offending posts.
Thank you for the cooperation in this matter. We now resume our regularly scheduled program.
MONOLITH
10-13-07, 09:39 PM
AVG, you can suck Jaesen's cock too if you want to. :up:
This is a wonderful way to show Neal and his site respect and appreciation.
I'm sure Neal will apreciate it.
clayton
10-13-07, 09:50 PM
PS. Neal this autocencor thingy aint working. Ducimus sucks Jaesons Cock! Ducimus sucks Jaesons Cock! Ducimus sucks Jaesons Cock! Ducimus sucks Jaesons Cock! Ducimus sucks Jaesons Cock! Ducimus sucks Jaesons Cock! Ducimus sucks Jaesons Cock! Ducimus sucks Jaesons Cock! Ducimus sucks Jaesons Cock! Ducimus sucks Jaesons Cock! Ducimus sucks Jaesons Cock! Ducimus sucks Jaesons Cock! Ducimus sucks Jaesons Cock! Ducimus sucks Jaesons Cock! Ducimus sucks Jaesons Cock! Ducimus sucks Jaesons Cock! Ducimus sucks Jaesons Cock!
See?
Holy Cr*p, dude! :o
clayton
10-13-07, 09:54 PM
Just ask Lehmann himself about that one. ;)
Yes - we all know about that episode, so could you please give those 'little hints' a rest mate..... There's no need. :doh:
I don't know it. Why don't you refresh our memory? You know, set the record straight.
skwasjer
10-13-07, 09:55 PM
Somebody please ban this turd... :x
MONOLITH
10-13-07, 09:56 PM
Just wait 'til neal gets home. :|\\
AVG, you can suck Jaesen's cock too if you want to. :up:
This is a wonderful way to show Neal and his site respect and appreciation.
I'm sure Neal will apreciate it.
When he get's admins/moderators that are actually neutral, I'm sure he will. Besides, I know I will be banned for this, but hey, I defend what I think is right. No, I defend what I KNOW is right. I know most of the GWX team via TeamSpeak and can honestly call them my friends. I care about all of them. And when I get banned, I wont abandong SS, I will keep donating as much as I can, b/c this is the best forum I've ever been in. Sorry Neal and sorry kpt. But Ducimus sit quiet and get away from all this. Just because I said 'Cock', which, in the matter of fact is the server's cencor's work. Ducimus said ass and ****ing few times but was he penalised? Nope, because he is one of the fwe modders to mods the SHIV.
God, I hope GWX team would start to mod SHIV. 2 weeks and no one would even remember Trigger Mary and the fecking 'I'm so great, I know it all Ducimus.'
You would be NOTHING without SHIII and it's modding people so shut the feck up!
Somebody please ban this turd... :x
Oh... a Ducimus fan boy. Great. So... what do you know about SHIII and what kinda bull****ter Ducimus was back there? Yeh, I though so, so SHUT THE **** UP!:yep: Thank you! :up:
EDIT: Oh and AVG, what the feck are you doing here, defending SHIv on every thread possible? AFAIK, you are a SHIII moderator?
clayton
10-13-07, 10:08 PM
AVG, you can suck Jaesen's cock too if you want to. :up:
This is a wonderful way to show Neal and his site respect and appreciation.
I'm sure Neal will apreciate it.
When he get's admins/moderators that are actually neutral, I'm sure he will. Besides, I know I will be banned for this, but hey, I defend what I think is right. No, I defend what I KNOW is right. I know most of the GWX team via TeamSpeak and can honestly call them my friends. I care about all of them. And when I get banned, I wont abandong SS, I will keep donating as much as I can, b/c this is the best forum I've ever been in. Sorry Neal and sorry kpt. But Ducimus sit quiet and get away from all this. Just because I said 'Cock', which, in the matter of fact is the server's cencor's work. Ducimus said ass and ****ing few times but was he penalised? Nope, because he is one of the fwe modders to mods the SHIV.
God, I hope GWX team would start to mod SHIV. 2 weeks and no one would even remember Trigger Mary and the fecking 'I'm so great, I know it all Ducimus.'
You would be NOTHING without SHIII and it's modding people so shut the feck up!
Your a GWX fanboy! :rotfl:
I love it when you guys open your holes! :rotfl:
EDIT
You know, I think they do it on purpose. I truly believe they generate this kind of behavior over here to discredit the game in the eyes of new users.
AVG, you can suck Jaesen's cock too if you want to. :up:
This is a wonderful way to show Neal and his site respect and appreciation.
I'm sure Neal will apreciate it.
When he get's admins/moderators that are actually neutral, I'm sure he will. Besides, I know I will be banned for this, but hey, I defend what I think is right. No, I defend what I KNOW is right. I know most of the GWX team via TeamSpeak and can honestly call them my friends. I care about all of them. And when I get banned, I wont abandong SS, I will keep donating as much as I can, b/c this is the best forum I've ever been in. Sorry Neal and sorry kpt. But Ducimus sit quiet and get away from all this. Just because I said 'Cock', which, in the matter of fact is the server's cencor's work. Ducimus said ass and ****ing few times but was he penalised? Nope, because he is one of the fwe modders to mods the SHIV.
God, I hope GWX team would start to mod SHIV. 2 weeks and no one would even remember Trigger Mary and the fecking 'I'm so great, I know it all Ducimus.'
You would be NOTHING without SHIII and it's modding people so shut the feck up!
Your a GWX fanboy! :rotfl:
I love it when you guys open your holes! :rotfl:
See the hostility? Mods? Or am I too late?
MONOLITH
10-13-07, 10:11 PM
Somehow you think this is all about Ducimus. It isn't though, really.
It was about the behaviors displayed by the public face of GWX, and now it's about your behavior.
You're carrying on like a 12 year old, screaming cursewords and profanity's and disrupting Subsim.com, disrespecting Neal and his staff.
You want to defend GWX; I say they are known by the company they keep, and support. So Please, do carry on.
John Channing
10-13-07, 10:12 PM
I see a whole lot of hostility on both sides.
I imagine it would be too much to ask for everyone to step back and act like adults?
JCC
Hmm.. Since GWX started to really make progress, every 'little' (no pun intended') modder started to dig everything they could to attack us. A very good example is the numerous accusations of theft ny Beery, you're "hero SHIV modder" who is still to show ANY proof, no matter the numerous pleas. :roll:
skwasjer
10-13-07, 10:15 PM
Somebody please ban this turd... :x
Oh... a Ducimus fan boy. Great. So... what do you know about SHIII and what kinda bull****ter Ducimus was back there? Yeh, I though so, so SHUT THE **** UP!:yep: Thank you! :up:
zzzz...
The more you dig the harder you fall...
The Aduldery stopped at post #5.
clayton
10-13-07, 10:16 PM
Hmm.. Since GWX started to really make progress, every 'little' (no pun intended') modder started to dig everything they could to attack us. A very good example is the numerous accusations of theft ny Beery, you're "hero SHIV modder" who is still to show ANY proof, no matter the numerous pleas. :roll:
Go on...:hmm:
Let it all out man, I mean your going to get banned so, I don't know, go with it...
Somebody please ban this turd... :x
Oh... a Ducimus fan boy. Great. So... what do you know about SHIII and what kinda bull****ter Ducimus was back there? Yeh, I though so, so SHUT THE **** UP!:yep: Thank you! :up:
zzzz...
The more you dig the harder you fall...
Yeh, dream on. Without SHIII and it's discoveries, you would still be playing the SH4 that Ubisoft cheated you to buy.
MONOLITH
10-13-07, 10:18 PM
I think we should all respect John's request.
Ignore Dowly and show we are the better men. Let's get back to more important things.
John Channing
10-13-07, 10:20 PM
The Aduldery stopped at post #5.
My request was not directed at you.
I was talking to the others who have yet to cross any lines. A number of them are valued members of this community and I would hate to see them punished.
Listen to Monolith. He knows of what he speaks.
JCC
clayton
10-13-07, 10:22 PM
I think we should all respect John's request.
Ignore Dowly and show we are the better men. Let's get back to more important things.
Agreed! Though hard to do...
I will not waste time with this guy anymore. He's done. Another one down!
skwasjer
10-13-07, 10:22 PM
Without SHIII and it's discoveries, you would still be playing the SH4 that Ubisoft cheated you to buy.
With that I agree, Without SHIII, not with the Without GWX part mentioned earlier.
I'll leave this thread alone. Have fun those that still dare ;)
leovampire
10-13-07, 10:22 PM
My fix to a situation like this is the same an Army officer would.
Each individual person causes the suffering for all in his company or Platoon.
If only an individual then they should be band from releasing Mod's for a minimal of 1 month in the forum.
If part of a team then the team can not release a mod in the forum for a total of 1 month. Because let's face it if we can not control our own people in a team then they shouldn't be a part of it and if they are not willing to step in and stop it then they are as much at fault as the individual.
First offence!
Second offence is 2 months!
Act like a child be treated like a child and it goes for everyone involved on both sides.
You are only hurting this forum and the reputation of the games and the mod's created for them.
Hmm.. Since GWX started to really make progress, every 'little' (no pun intended') modder started to dig everything they could to attack us. A very good example is the numerous accusations of theft ny Beery, you're "hero SHIV modder" who is still to show ANY proof, no matter the numerous pleas. :roll:
Go on...:hmm:
Let it all out man, I mean your going to get banned so, I don't know, go with it...
Yes, I know I will get banned. What's the better time to speak the truth? Like jimbuna said yesterday, the two-three BEST Silent Hunter modders are already here, sipping from my beer, so without stealing, SHIV will never get as good as SHIII is. You motherduckers just dont get it how muc much GWS have given to you! I know it sounds selfish, but for gods sake! The things we have done have been classified as 'Impossible' by the rest of the community. I have nver ever seen the kinds of power that is present here on the GWX team. I can bet my heart that nobody will ever get even close to what the techno-mages here have done.
End of story. Bye.
Onkel Neal
10-13-07, 10:32 PM
We've had to deal with mod makers continually sniping and bickering, jealous rants, whining, bragging about how the world revolves around their mod, even really delusional theatrics touting they can do it better than the dev team (snort!), etc. It's a pain for us moderators to deal with, over and over, each mod makers PMing us and complaining how they are the good guy, so-and-so started it.... well, we accept we have to deal with it. It's a part of forum life.
You non-GW guys who cannot stand to see GW enjoy their work, you have to dig at them and stir up the crap, thanks for instigating these habitual flame wars. You know before you hit the POST button you are going to aggravate people. I've advised GW guys to ignore you, it keeps things in perspective. Let your work speak for itself, and stop this.
But when one guy cannot control himself any better than Dowly just exhibited, it crosses the line. This kind of thing is really unacceptable, it casts everything GW does in a bad light.
I like Dowly, looking forward to meeting him in the '09 Subsim meeting, if he can make it. Yeah, he's in the Brig for the foreseeable future. Do I have any choice? This type of forum posting goes well past "losing one's temper", it's abusive and insulting. He might as well slapped my face. I'm leaving his posts intact.
Neal
Onkel Neal
10-13-07, 10:50 PM
^^^^^
THIS everyone, is part of the public face of GWX. And we haven't heard from the others yet either.
Do you really want this attitude over here?
You have not heard from the others because they are not taking the bait. This is not "the public face of GW", this is Dowly acting badly. JS, please do not fan the flames.
MONOLITH
10-13-07, 10:51 PM
In hopes of maybe soothing things just a tad, I do want to clarify that the talents of any of the modders in GWX were never called into question. Being in the industry I have a huge respect for the efforts and hours that go into modding/developing any game.
This conversation, and my initial comments, were about something else entirely.
melnibonian
10-14-07, 06:14 AM
In hopes of maybe soothing things just a tad, I do want to clarify that the talents of any of the modders in GWX were never called into question. Being in the industry I have a huge respect for the efforts and hours that go into modding/developing any game.
I'm sure that's the case and I'm sure nobody ever questioned your well intended motives.
THIS everyone, is part of the public face of GWX.
Jaesen I will speak only for myself here, but I don't really think there is a "party line" in GWX. I do agree that some ideas do seem similar but this is because we talk about these things all the time, so it makes sence to follow a similar way of thinking. As far as I am concerned I was never told what to say or not to say by anyone in GWX. If that was the case I would not be a member of the team. Don't get me wrong mate I do not try to push you or put you in a bad possition. You know how much I respect you and like you and I am just saying my opinion here.
As far as this thread is concerned my view is that this type of language and behaviour is unnecessary. There is no need to argue about SH4/SH3/GWX and god knows what else. It's just a game after all, so let's enjoy it and let's let the others enjoy it as well. The real test for anything in life is how long it can survive the test of time. If GWX (or any other of the great mods out there) can last then it means it's good. Let the Mods Speak for themselves. Some people will like them some will not. There is nothing we can do about that. It's the way life is. let's enjoy our game and let's let the others enjoy theirs.
In my line of work I have papers or ideas I put forward thought wrong by some people (thankfully not all the time). I am not going around arguing and shouting at them (that doesn't mean I'm not uppset BTW). I'm just letting my work stand the test of time and I'm always trying to become better by listening the feedback I get from my peers (this is something I know the GWX Team, Jaesen and most other modders actually do very well).
That's all I had to say and if I offended anyone I'm really sorry. I was not intentional.
AVGWarhawk
10-14-07, 06:29 AM
Good Lord, all of this for some airplane request from the OP. Just moments after the keyboard smashing appears:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=123467
Added three more planes????? Nice work sir. I'd love to see this mod grow!
After reading all of this it felt like a Saturday night brawl amongst friends.
JScones
10-14-07, 06:55 AM
...I am just saying my opinion here.
Mel, your level-headed opinions are always welcome mate. :up:
That's all I had to say and if I offended anyone I'm really sorry. I was not intentional.
I think it's impossible that you would ever offend anyone. :up:
melnibonian
10-14-07, 07:19 AM
...I am just saying my opinion here.
Mel, your level-headed opinions are always welcome mate. :up:
That's all I had to say and if I offended anyone I'm really sorry. I was not intentional.
I think it's impossible that you would ever offend anyone. :up:
Thanks for the thumbs up Jaesen. Now let's all stop arguing and keep modding/playing the Submarine game we like and we enjoy ;) :up:
MONOLITH
10-14-07, 09:36 AM
Just moments after the keyboard smashing appears:
Keyboard smashing?
This was Neal's keyboard last night.....
http://www.MayhemOnStrings.com/Images/madcomputer4ri.gif
sergbuto
10-14-07, 10:58 AM
Every modder should be welcome on the forums. Discussions about who is the best modder do not create a supportive atmosphere for that. For new SH4 modders, who do not probably have time to go through the SH3 forum archives (not to mention that unfortunately those archives are not full) I just want to take a brief look at the early times of SH3:
Successful decoding of SH3 files started long before even existance of a thought about GWX and if I am not mistaken before any of current members of the GWX team was even around on the forums
The same goes for times when Sansal created and developed the Pack3d program for extracting/importing new models to SH3
Revision of current units/models and bringing new 3D models and working out the proceedure for doing that happened long before GWX existance
Tweaking configs, .mis and other files, testing and figuring out the content and consequence of changes and creating the pool of info started long before GWX
I would even dare to say that most of crucially important findings and discoveries for modding were made outside of GWX.
The GWX foundation as other supermods rests on findings and discoveries by modders who were there before, who are at least as talented as any of the GWX team members. In any case one should be very gratefull to the GWX team for taking it further, for their dedication and spending numerious hours, for hardworking for free. And so did the modders who were there before and therefore should not be forgotten. Most of them moved onto other things/games, etc. but that does not mean they should not be given credits.
I would pay little attention to Dowly's claims that almost everything in GWX was made from scratch, it is already enough to take a look at the acknowledgement section in the GWX manual to recognize contribution of other modders.
If the GWX team does not want to do modding for SH4, one still should support them in doing what they are interested to do, so they have a stimulus for their work. What should not be tolerated is undermining the work of other modders. Give it some time, I am pretty sure that SH4 modders will learn and grow up in their knowledge of the SH4 structure. Some talented people are still waiting to get into SH4 because of having weak computers.
WilhelmTell
10-14-07, 12:11 PM
This Dowly, he's got to be kidding !? Otherwise, what a nasty person.:nope:
@ sergbuto
Well said, man !!! :up:
Kpt. Lehmann
10-14-07, 12:14 PM
Just came home from work... to a fading mushroom cloud here.
It is saddening that so many have decided their opinions without knowing the truth.
Given enough time... and it IS only a matter of time before everyone will be able to flick a switch and choose which theatre they'd like to swim in for the day. (In the SH4 environment.)
Sure we all have preferences... and tend to stick with those preferences when given a choice.
However, variety IMHO (... and being able to choose between a Gato and a Type VIIC...) is the spice of life.
We (the GWX dudes and dudette) did not invent modding. We pushed it.
Competition... at times nasty and unreasonable... did serve to better the field for all who had... and have... the courage to build and release mods.
Things will only get better for all... no matter what boat you like. (THEY ARE ALL DIESEL YOU KNOW!!! :up: :up: :up: )
Let's try to collect our wounded troops here and move on.
... Dowly... you are one lucky ferret.
... One last thing... as I recall... the U.S. Navy kicked the tar out of the Japanese Imperial Navy in WWII. With respect to our Lithuanian members... I reeeeallly think that the Lithuanian navy might have had a heavier work load had they attempted to do the same.
with respect.
MONOLITH
10-14-07, 12:45 PM
You know, it's really easy to get caught up in the moment. And no matter how I felt at the moment, when the dust settles I always have regret and think "Man, I really don't want conflict with anyone". There are definately actions and behaviors here, that above all else, simply tarnish the image of Subsim.com, and that is completely unfair to Neal and his staff.
I do want to clarify my own comments in here, and I suppose this is largely directed to the GWX crew;
I use GWX. I'm looking forward to the new planes and skins. Being a longtime modder myself for other games, and now being closely connected to a major new game (check my sig link); I have a thorough apreciation for the efforts and achievements that have been done with SH3.
My only gripe, was some of the ugly events that I have seen unfold over in the SH3 modding world. I don't think that's an unfair statement, the threads and posts are there for all of Subsim to see.
I'll leave it short and sweet like that, with this last sentence;
Despite our differences, we should at the very least try to co-exist, and contain within ourselves those statements that we know will only provoke and instigate more problems. As a means of respect towards Subsim.com, we should simply ignore or avoid those things we which we do not like or care for. There's enough room here that there's 'something for everyone'.
In the end, we are in fact all drawn here for the exact same reason. Love of the sub sim. We should pause sometimes to remember, this is something that we all share in common.
Finally, while I do stand behind my perspectives, and my statements last night wholeheartedly; I do apologize for my part in the incident.
Cheers to all.
skwasjer
10-14-07, 03:04 PM
The GWX-mod is a great mod, I never would (will) question that. But there's so many other excellent stuff created. There would be no GWX mod, or any other mod in the first place if it wasn't for 'a community' to keep eachother going.
There really is no need to elevate anyone over anyone. This really bothered me when I read some of the posts of yesterday (besides all the swearing). :shifty:
Share knowledge, technology and content (especially the first two!), in the end we all win...
On topic - I think the GWX-planes are great :yep:, as I've said some days back on the SH3-preview topic. It's only a matter of time before we see other great Pacific related units in SH4 (apart from those that are already introduced). Especially if I get some bloody time to finish this crappy tool of mine :oops:
Everyone has there favorites, ever consider modding SH 3 skins,units, events and ports into SH4 and making it a GLOBAL WAR ?!?!
Maybe donations to open/host up a server and fight one another in the Pacific, Atlantic etc??? VS in the forum? That might be UBI's plan for SH5, who knows.
Kaleu_Mihoo
10-14-07, 06:14 PM
Although not a tech expert, I think it is possible to port the sh3 stuff like planes to sh4 without any issues . Just ask the creator for permission and I see no reason you couldn't get it because of the benefit for all the silent hunter community.
But back to OT :doh: it's really a shame it had to end... It was really a VERY good laugh and I found it very amusing :rotfl:
greets
leovampire
10-14-07, 06:27 PM
Although not a tech expert, I think it is possible to port the sh3 stuff like planes to sh4 without any issues . Just ask the creator for permission and I see no reason you couldn't get it because of the benefit for all the silent hunter community.
But back to OT :doh: it's really a shame it had to end... It was really a VERY good laugh and I found it very amusing :rotfl:
greets
But it is more difficult now because a lot of the textures are locked into the DAT files so they have to be pulled appart to do it. This was done so the game would load faster because the engine for it run's different and slower.
But the new Run Slient Run Deep mod has some new planes in there so I will check them out first.
Kaleu_Mihoo
10-14-07, 07:02 PM
Yes I know that sir, but having permission from the creator it is also able to extract the textures by dat extractor tool and use them as normal stuff im Tex folder (I don't own SH4 but I heard the files structure is somewhat similar to the SH3 one, so it must be a textures folder). As long as it isn't used for commercial purposes you can use it without restriction having a go ahead from the creator. This is what every readme file states :yep: Just go for it and serve the community well :up:
If I only had a better pc and mooooooooore time :down:
greets
Kapitan_Phillips
10-19-07, 04:34 AM
...I am just saying my opinion here. Mel, your level-headed opinions are always welcome mate. :up:
That's all I had to say and if I offended anyone I'm really sorry. I was not intentional. I think it's impossible that you would ever offend anyone. :up:
I've always thought that too :lol:
Stealth Hunter
10-25-07, 08:14 PM
Always wondered when the Ferret would end up locked in D. Jones' locker.
kiwi_2005
10-26-07, 04:04 AM
bloody hell Dowly were you trying to give up smoking when you posted in here :lol: I wondered why u got banned, now i know. Oh well when u come back your be more wiser.
Stealth Hunter
10-26-07, 06:32 PM
Wouldn't count on it.:up:
clayton
10-27-07, 12:38 AM
[edit - inappropriate language!]
Do you really want that back?
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