Stay on the surface

[joho]

Ive read a few books about the Uboot aces and their tactics.
It seems to me that the most sucessfull captains slipt pass the escort screen on the surface into the convoy lauching the attack from the inside.
Now the countermesaure from the escorts was to let the forward escorts run down the sides of the convoy in oposite direction of the convoy looking for submerged targets.
The "only" risk for the Uboat once inside the convoy was beeing detected by a merchant.
Now to my question Is it possible to preform an attack of this kind in GWX?

The publication "Grey wolf grey sea" is a masterpiece in the subject at hand.

[melnibonian]

As in reality early in the war if the weather conditions are good you can manage a surface attack on a convoy. As the years go by though it becomes more and more difficult.

One thing to remember though is that in real life the distances between ships in convoys were significantly larger than in GWX (that's an issue with the game engine and not with GWX BTW) making these types of attacks easier.

[Brag]

If you decide to make surface attacks go in with your decks awash. You achieve this by ordering a depth of 6 or 7 meters. This will reduce the escort's abillity to detect you.

[Ping Panther]

Welcome aboard joho,

British escorts maneuver you mentioned was often known as a "Half Raspberry".

[Jimbuna]

One of the most famous commanders of them all, Otto Kretschmer was only captured because he was below decks when one of his junior officers ignored his standing orders one evening during a surfaced convoy attack.....namely, if spotted on the surface never dive if at all possible. :arrgh!:

http://uboat.net/men/kretschmer.htm

[Capt. Shark Bait]

Welcome aboard joho,

British escorts maneuver you mentioned was often known as a "Half Raspberry".

so, this would be a full raspberry?:p :D

[joegrundman]

never dive? So what did he propose to do instead?

[Frostyvegi]

never dive? So what did he propose to do instead?

Pretend to be a merchantman, perhaps? Or maybe pretend to be defecting.. :P

[Kpt. Lehmann]

never dive? So what did he propose to do instead?

Kretchmer would use low light (typical attack times for U-boats) and would outrun destroyers on the surface... With your bow or stern pointed at the enemy, it is more difficult for you to be seen. (This is called "low aspect ratio.")

The same is true in reverse. It is harder for your crew to spot vessels head on, or from behind... again low aspect ratio. (Using active sonar or radar another term used interchangeably/ in lieu of aspect ratio is "cross-section.")

Kretchmer was able to get away on the surface because he was good at estimating the fringes of detection. By the time DD's could charge after him with their greater surface speed... Kretchmer was too far away to warrant further chase and the escorts would have to return to the convoy due to the threat of other U-boats in the area... sometimes real and sometimes perceived.

Kretchmer was also known for getting inside convoys where escorts couldn't... or wouldn't think of looking for him... and taking advantage of the risk of collision at night.

Not very long ago there was a big thread/debate on whether or not surface attacks were possible at night in GWX. Penelope_Grey and some others were quite successful at it... though it was quite difficult... and you must remain very aware of your surroundings.

Once an attack is successful... and the convoy goes "full active" firing off starshells, using searchlights, going evasive, and escorts performing the Raspberry maneuver... I do suggest that you find a way to be elsewhere as soon as possible.

Remember... Hit and run!

If you try to stay and fight... nature will take its course.

[joegrundman]

For sure i also do surface night attacks on convoys, it's a great thrill and it's nice to be able to run to safety on the surfaace at 14 knts instead of underwater at 2 knts and be ready for a second attack at dawn.

But IF I'm detected and i have a destroyer running at me I have always assumed it's better to dive. PErhaps I should try to outrun them

[Kpt. Lehmann]

For sure i also do surface night attacks on convoys, it's a great thrill and it's nice to be able to run to safety on the surfaace at 14 knts instead of underwater at 2 knts and be ready for a second attack at dawn.

But IF I'm detected and i have a destroyer running at me I have always assumed it's better to dive. PErhaps I should try to outrun them

In SH3/GWX, they will tend to catch you more often than not... HOWEVER, if you can grab some distance from the convoy... crashdive... and give the escort chasing you the slip before help arrives...

... They'll happily DC the heck out of the area you were last reported to be in... while you are creeping away on silent running deep below.

Other notes on surface attacks: (To anyone who cares to read)

-Fire salvoes of at least two to increase your chances of sinking your target.

-Do not try to STAY and fight it out on the surface. (When an attack is successful, they KNOW you are out there somewhere and will break their butts to find and kill you... because you are trying to choke the life out of England, remember?) If you get greedy... you will die.

-Do not underestimate the power of the merchant deck gun... and remember that as the war goes on, each ship mounts more and more of them. They aren't usually very accurate, (inertial and laser guided stability has been removed from every gun in GWX) however if you have my luck, a single unlucky shell hit will kill your entire watch crew and your favorite officer. Besides, accuracy doesn't matter when you've got guns coming our of your ears. Put enough rounds down-range and some will hit. Merchants can kill you.

-It is easier for the enemy to spot you big ole' wake than it is for them to spot your sub.

-The enemy "talks" to each other. (signal lamp and/or wireless) If they see you, they will tell all their buddies... including fleet and air assets many kilometers farther than you can see.

-When you have been spotted... for a few moments there is no point in stealth. Ring up flank speed if you haven't already, and crashdive... get deep... then go silent... and forget about sinking ships while you are busy surviving.

-Wait for the "Tail-end Charlie" and pick him off. In so doing you've already put a bit of distance between yourself and those who'd like to punch your ticket.

-Stop wasting eels on escorts... the tonnage... and your mission... is to sink the material being carried to England... that will be dropped on Germany.

-When you are in a tough spot and you let yourself get rattled... slow down and think.

[Huskalar]

Tried surface attacks several times now, but was succesful only once. Looks like I have to practice some more.

[melnibonian]

The weather conditions are very important for surface attacks. In my opinion it must
1. Be night and with no moon (or low visibility)
2. If the visibility is good (i.e. "bright" night) then it helps is the sea is medium as the waves can conceal your boat.
3. Be at Decks awash, fire a full salvo from a large distance (4-3500m), keep approaching and reload. Once the first torpedo hit fire whatever torpedo you have load and dive deep trying to cross to the other side of the convoy.

[Ping Panther]

I also found that if some merchants nearest the middle & front of the columns are hit enough early on in an attack to either slow/stop them from the convoy cruise speed or hopefully get them sinking... it really puts a large number of following merchants into alot of chaotic course changes to avoid rear-ending others in line.

The escort cruiser was caught on the opposite side of my escape (my sub submerged by then), and found itself reversing to avoid collisions and trying to find a path clear to run to me across what was left of the merchants.

[abel29a]

I've successfully outrun Destroyers on the surface on many occasions in GWX. Even in relatively good weather and with some moon it is possible to outrun DD's. First thing, point your strern at them, then give small rudder corrections to port or starboard to slowly alter course away from their course. They will usually bracket your suspected location with starshells, but if you manage to avoid being in the lit area placing yourself on the "dark side" gives you an even greater edge for outrunning them.

Of course, your success rate depends on the experience of the crews manning the escorts, but more often than not you can slip away. And you should always try, unless the DD is close enough to fire accurately at you, because the benefits of staying surfaced far outweighs the slim chance of getting hit by a lucky shot.

As for the surfaced attack - it works like a charm in GWX. Just maintain low profiles, decks awash and low speed as mentioned above. Also, if you want to make a surfaced getaway it's nearly impossible to attack from inside the convoy, as the searchlights will illuminate you. Attacking from either flank with a separation of 600m+ will allow you to manouver away after launching the attack, with the added benefit of allowing for a parting stern shot while escaping.

[U49]

I always check the weather conditions. If they are too good (low waves, great visibility) I attack submerged.
Otherwise I check for the escorts, if I can see an opening. Up until 12/41 I always find my spot an go for the outer lanes.
If you want to go for the center lanes, then you better forget about it on the surface. They have to many eagle-eyes on the lookouts . :(

[Sailor Steve]

Part of the reason for the night surface attack is that periscope lenses are too small to allow submerged attacks at night. Not enough light. If the game properly reflected that, and made it harder to spot surfaced u-boats in bad light, everybody's life would be a lot better.

It has been pointed out that in daylight destroyers can see just as well as submarines, but at night a black object lying close to the water has every advantage.

[joho]

I managed not only to escape detection on a dark, but not moonless night, but to cirkle around and attack again on the surface at sunrise. I was mearly 1500m astern from the port middle column and managed to put a magnetic in the rear of the zigzaging merc.

I is also important to remember to have the moon on the "right" side. If you do it will illuminate your targets and conceal yourself. Right side is between the moon and the target.

[TarJak]

Another little known tactic is to move all your crew to the forward most comaprtments when running decks awash. This reduces the bow wave as you approach and makes it harder for the escorts and merchies to spot you.

It is possible even in late war to make a surface approach if the conditions are right. Last week whilst testing GWX1.04 I was crisuing in a IXD2 near Freetown in April 1944, when I got a radar signal detected warning. I dived to PD and got a fix on the hydrophones. It was a large convoy moving at around 5kt. I was a bout 15km away and they were heading away from me.

The weather was overcast with little fog and high 15m/s winds. Given that I was testing and not playing DiD I thought bugger it I'll try a surface appraoch to see if I can catch them and make a hit and run on them using the high sea state as cover.

Sufaced, went to flank, moved the crew forward, then set decks awash with the schnorkel up so that the high waves wouldn't slow me down. I got ahead of the convoy spotting them at around 6km distance.

Managed to evade the covette that was on my side of the convoy and ordered ahead slow. I got to around 500m of the Large Merchant I had selected as the target before firing all four bow tubes whilst still surfaced. I then turned 160 degrees an sped up to flank again to get away.

Once the torpedoes hit I ordered PD and went silent. The Escorts milled about a bit trying to find me, bu I was about 3km away by the time they reached the datum that I fired from and they now had no way of finding me.

I shadowed them and struck anohter from a similar position. If the weather is in your favour then it is very possible to cause them some real damage and survive.

[Captain Nemo]

I agree with others here, a surface attack gets the adrenaline going and you feel a great sense of achievement if you are successful. Personally, I don't fire from 3,500 - 4,000 metres out like melnibonian does. I try to get in as close as possible, keeping an eye on the lead escorts and any escorts positioned out on the flanks. When conditions are ideal, I have managed to close to a distance of less than 1,000 metres of the convoy without being detected. It's a great experience and I highly recommend it.

For those interested in the real life tactics of Otto Kretschmer, he was interviewed for the World at War series (Wolf Pack: U-Boats in the Atlantic 1939-1944) back in the 1970's which is available on DVD. It was also available to watch online at www.tv-links.co.uk (http://www.tv-links.co.uk) but this site seems to be down at the moment. But you could try Stage6 here (page 2) http://stage6.divx.com/videos/tag:world+at+war

Nemo

[Paajtor]

I is also important to remember to have the moon on the "right" side. If you do it will illuminate your targets and conceal yourself. Right side is between the moon and the target. I wonder if this is really modelled into SH3(-GWX)?
I mean, you can paint your Uboat in a bright pink colour, and still the enemy-AI will react, as if you were using an ideal matt-grey/black (I'm talking about a night-attack).

In Il2-FB (played it for about 5 years), I had so much online-flights vs. human pilots, that picking (or making) the right camo-skin became one of the most important things to consider, prior to takeoff...certainly because I usually flew the Il2 itself.
AI can't react to custom-camo patterns...humans, on the other hand, can.

But in SH3, every opponent is AI per definition.
So which skin I use, is of no concern....it's all just eyecandy.
And so my question is: can the way a Uboat is illuminated (or not), be detected by SH3?

Can the AI really tell the difference, depending on my course, the time-of-day, the moon-phase, moon obscured by clouds or not (a cloud moves in front of the moon, and moves away after a short while), the position of the enemy relative to my uboat, ship-crews being blinded when looking into the moonlight, etc. etc.

I really doubt it.:hmm:
Would be cool, though.:yep:

[johnno74]

I've often wondered the same thing. I can say with 100% certainty that the aspect ratio is hugely important - whether you are bow/stern on to the enemy, or broadside.

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

I'm not really one to try doing surface attacks on convoys since I raid ports and prefer lone merchant ships. But I still attack convoys, the only problem is that when I get a report of one it's eather too far away it go after or it in the middle of the afternoon. So I do the standard underwater attacks. Once in late 1940 I found and tryed to get into a convoy but one of the escorts heard me and soon it and two others where after as fled towards Norway. At one point two of the three split and went to look in another area but the one that had heard me first kept right on trying to blow me out of the water even after he was out of wasserbombs. So after he went over me trying to make me think he still had charges left I surfaced and shot the hell out of him with my deck gun. But say the convoy has no ecsorts but the ships in it where armed I'd attempt to have a go at it when on the surface and try to destroy the merchants deck guns with my own, and I can say from expirance that a deck gun on an enemy ship can be destroyed with one shot.

[danlisa]

Surface attacks are possible & rewarding. Also, IMHO more intense. You've got to be very aware of your surroundings.

Recipe:
Decks awash
Low Light conditions
Correct angle of attack.

I ran parallel to the convoys course for about 1hr game time, travelling just a little faster them them, so I could get into a good position for the 31000 BB in the middle.

I've had to brighten/lighten this abit but the nearest merchant you can see is about 1500m away and I was never detected.:ahoy:

http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/3169/convoyapproach2kh3.jpg

[Janus]

Damn, I wanted to post that in another thread - sorry :oops:

* Post deleted - wrong topic *

[GoldenRivet]

danlisa that is exactly how i do it. :up:

if i encounter a convoy at night (up until radar comes along anyhow), i almost always opt for a surface attack, and i would estimate that 80 percent of the time i am never detected.

i will fire my bow shots while in a turn opposite the direction of the convoy's line of travel, this helps me bring the sturn tube around much faster.

anyway, when i have cleared the bow shots, i take a pot shot at another target with the stern tube(s).

upon firing the last shot i dive deep, deploying decoys at 30 - 40 meter depth intervals, and maneuvering on the way down I try to position myself beneath the convoy lanes to take advantage of the fact that this prevents accurate depth charge runs against me because of the risk of surface collisions.

this process gets more and more difficult as the war progresses obviously... one of the last times i tried it in GWX 1.03 i was sunk due to a combination of extreme depth-pressure and blast from hedge hogs and depth charges. it was a hell of a game of cat and mouse which lasted for a few hours in the game about 100km west of portugal.

surface attacks are wonderfully simulated in GWX... and GWX2, it really detracts from the enemy's ability to detect you by sonar, but it takes an extreme amount of patience and planning.

[kiwikapitan]

So trying a surface attack in Mar. '43 would be considered suicide then? That is if you are trying to emulate Werner from 'Iron Coffins' in that huge wolfpack attack in the end of the 1st part of the book. Mind you a lot of info in that book leaves me wondering how he survived the war. :hmm:

Personally I prefer the stealthy submerged attack similar to Kretschmer but approaching from the front of the convoy and then letting all hell break loose once inside the convoy. Dangerous but satisfying if you pull it off. :D

But maybe if conditions are right I'll try the surfaced attack with the various tactics given by fellow kaleuns. :arrgh!:

[harzfeld]

Well, I think Otto Kretschmer was very lucky to be captured and lived that time, especially in 1941, before Allied's radar was very much improved. He could have ended up dead or worst later in his career if he had managed to get away instead of being captured. I have done surface raiding or fleeing in early war years, but after 1943, it seems too impossible to be invisible from their radar.

Sometime just for fun, I went after convoy on clear day while the water was smooth as ice in 1944, couple grids away from England or Ireland, once I am around 1000-2000m in front of incoming convoy, I raise my depth to snorkel and hit flank to be detected, then crash dive toward and under the convoy. Why did I do that? In game, I attracted Allied’s bombers, they came and dropped so many bombs on merchants and destroyers, while I was watching bombers damaging or destroying their own ally ships using external view feature. I doubt they would be so stupid in real life, lol, so it just one of exploits in this game.

[Rhodes]

So trying a surface attack in Mar. '43 would be considered suicide then?

Well in July of 43 I manage to do my last surface attack, at night. Calm sea state, pick up the convoy aproxing and with deck awash manage to get inside the destroyers screen. Quitte simple by the way. There was 2 of them at the sides of the convoy but the first one was almost paralel to the lead frigate, and the second was zig-zaging, often going back and returning. Did a little "ziguezague" and voilá. But then fired to soon... and manage to got away. (It was still in GWX 1.03; GWX 2.0 I still in my 44/45 campaing...:88) )

By the way, an historical question, Otto Kretschmer junior officer name was Bernard?

[Uncle Goose]

Kretschmer went even that far that he often entered the convoy with the wind in his back because the lookout on the ships couldn't see that well due the sprays of salt water and suchs. However I don't think that's accounted for in SHIII.

[Heibges]

I think the most important thing is taking your time, determining the convoy course, the analyzing the escort patrol pattern in relationship to the convoy.

This will tell you where and when the gaps in the convoy will appear.

I try to start my attack just as the lead escort starts the leg of its seach out in front of the convoy. It is then moving out ahead of the convoy, and I am approaching from the right or left flank at high speed.

[Heibges]

In medium seas and light fog you can get to about 700 or 800m before being spotted.

In heavy seas and heavy fog, you can get to within 400m.

[flag4]

For sure i also do surface night attacks on convoys, it's a great thrill and it's nice to be able to run to safety on the surfaace at 14 knts instead of underwater at 2 knts and be ready for a second attack at dawn.

But IF I'm detected and i have a destroyer running at me I have always assumed it's better to dive. PErhaps I should try to outrun them

In SH3/GWX, they will tend to catch you more often than not... HOWEVER, if you can grab some distance from the convoy... crashdive... and give the escort chasing you the slip before help arrives...

... They'll happily DC the heck out of the area you were last reported to be in... while you are creeping away on silent running deep below.

Other notes on surface attacks: (To anyone who cares to read)

-Fire salvoes of at least two to increase your chances of sinking your target.

-Do not try to STAY and fight it out on the surface. (When an attack is successful, they KNOW you are out there somewhere and will break their butts to find and kill you... because you are trying to choke the life out of England, remember?) If you get greedy... you will die.

-Do not underestimate the power of the merchant deck gun... and remember that as the war goes on, each ship mounts more and more of them. They aren't usually very accurate, (inertial and laser guided stability has been removed from every gun in GWX) however if you have my luck, a single unlucky shell hit will kill your entire watch crew and your favorite officer. Besides, accuracy doesn't matter when you've got guns coming our of your ears. Put enough rounds down-range and some will hit. Merchants can kill you.

-It is easier for the enemy to spot you big ole' wake than it is for them to spot your sub.

-The enemy "talks" to each other. (signal lamp and/or wireless) If they see you, they will tell all their buddies... including fleet and air assets many kilometers farther than you can see.

-When you have been spotted... for a few moments there is no point in stealth. Ring up flank speed if you haven't already, and crashdive... get deep... then go silent... and forget about sinking ships while you are busy surviving.

-Wait for the "Tail-end Charlie" and pick him off. In so doing you've already put a bit of distance between yourself and those who'd like to punch your ticket.

-Stop wasting eels on escorts... the tonnage... and your mission... is to sink the material being carried to England... that will be dropped on Germany.

-When you are in a tough spot and you let yourself get rattled... slow down and think.

Wow!!

top advice Kpt'n

though it's the err, "slow down and think" bit that spills my soup...

[Paajtor]

That's a good advice, though...after all, it may be your last thoughts you're thinking there...

[Heibges]

Depending on the location of the escorts it is possible to fire your torps, and escape all on the surface like in real life.

By staying on the surface you can move out of their visual range before they get on scene to investigate.

[Jimbuna]

Depending on the location of the escorts it is possible to fire your torps, and escape all on the surface like in real life.

By staying on the surface you can move out of their visual range before they get on scene to investigate.

Generally only achievable in inclement and foggy weather....and still with great risk :hmm:

[Brag]

Depending on the location of the escorts it is possible to fire your torps, and escape all on the surface like in real life.

By staying on the surface you can move out of their visual range before they get on scene to investigate.

Generally only achievable in inclement and foggy weather....and still with great risk :hmm:

Good way to have an interesting but short carreer. :dead:

[Foghladh_mhara]

Another little known tactic is to move all your crew to the forward most comaprtments when running decks awash. This reduces the bow wave as you approach and makes it harder for the escorts and merchies to spot you..

Seriously?? Does GWX actually model the physics of this into the game?

[joegrundman]

I find it easy enough to make a surface attack against convoys, and i get really close too, but i find that within 5 - 10 secs of torpedoes hitting I'm picked up by searchlights pretty much 100% of the time.

I always crash dive at that point, so in the end i end up underwater anyway

[Jimbuna]

Another little known tactic is to move all your crew to the forward most comaprtments when running decks awash. This reduces the bow wave as you approach and makes it harder for the escorts and merchies to spot you..

Seriously?? Does GWX actually model the physics of this into the game?

Purely a matter of personal opinion by community members of this forum :hmm:

IMHO......no effect at all :nope:

There are similar mixed views with regard to dive times http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/whistle.gif

[Rhodes]

Another little known tactic is to move all your crew to the forward most comaprtments when running decks awash. This reduces the bow wave as you approach and makes it harder for the escorts and merchies to spot you..

Seriously?? Does GWX actually model the physics of this into the game?

Purely a matter of personal opinion by community members of this forum :hmm:

IMHO......no effect at all :nope:

There are similar mixed views with regard to dive times http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/whistle.gif

If my memory doesn't play tricks, did we not have a thread that discuss this and when one crash dive and move the crew to the forward compartment, helped the boat to dive fast? Because I always to this. And well, even if doesn't do a damn thing, one can always say that it's more realistic...I think........

[Jimbuna]

Another little known tactic is to move all your crew to the forward most comaprtments when running decks awash. This reduces the bow wave as you approach and makes it harder for the escorts and merchies to spot you..

Seriously?? Does GWX actually model the physics of this into the game?

Purely a matter of personal opinion by community members of this forum :hmm:

IMHO......no effect at all :nope:

There are similar mixed views with regard to dive times http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/whistle.gif

If my memory doesn't play tricks, did we not have a thread that discuss this and when one crash dive and move the crew to the forward compartment, helped the boat to dive fast? Because I always to this. And well, even if doesn't do a damn thing, one can always say that it's more realistic...I think........

I believe there was a thread which proved inconclusive :hmm:

Some agreed and some agreed to differ :lol:

[Abd_von_Mumit]

I believe there was a thread which proved inconclusive :hmm:

Some agreed and some agreed to differ :lol:
That is how it was indeed. :D I don't remember seeing any proof that moving your crew around changes any aspect of boat behaviour in game. Such things cannot be a matter of belief, so I tried to check it by means of testing, and the tests proved nothing. So in my opinion anyone can still move his crew to bow cmpartments if it adds to his immersion, but I personally prefer to focus on other important details in heavy circumstances and do not trouble myself with what I feel would be useless and too time consuming.

[Penelope_Grey]

I find it easy enough to make a surface attack against convoys, and i get really close too, but i find that within 5 - 10 secs of torpedoes hitting I'm picked up by searchlights pretty much 100% of the time.

I always crash dive at that point, so in the end i end up underwater anyway

The cunning Kaleun is already making their escape when the torpedoes impact! Escaping on the surface without diving is such an awesome feeling! And it means you can attack again within the hour.

At night even with G7a torpedoes, set them for 30 knots to give you more chance to increase distance. In the dark they wont see the wake till its all over anyway and then its too late. :up:

[Jimbuna]

I find it easy enough to make a surface attack against convoys, and i get really close too, but i find that within 5 - 10 secs of torpedoes hitting I'm picked up by searchlights pretty much 100% of the time.

I always crash dive at that point, so in the end i end up underwater anyway

The cunning Kaleun is already making their escape when the torpedoes impact! Escaping on the surface without diving is such an awesome feeling! And it means you can attack again within the hour.

At night even with G7a torpedoes, set them for 30 knots to give you more chance to increase distance. In the dark they wont see the wake till its all over anyway and then its too late. :up:

The balance and trade off you have to decide upon is whether to set your dive speed at 2 knots and accept the correspondingly miniscule change in depth and position, or set a higher speed to travel further and run the risk of being heard.
Spin the wheel of chance http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

[bigboywooly]

I find it easy enough to make a surface attack against convoys, and i get really close too, but i find that within 5 - 10 secs of torpedoes hitting I'm picked up by searchlights pretty much 100% of the time.

I always crash dive at that point, so in the end i end up underwater anyway

Crash dive is like ringing the dinner bell
If you are going to dive do it at the speed you are already going or less and slip beneath the waves quietly
Hitting C ramps speed up to flank - if they havent seen you till then they will with a burst of speed

[joegrundman]

I should change that 100% to 75%, because it certainly has been the case that I have slipped away and come back a couple of hours later for a second attack, and it is indeed a marvellous feeling. In those cases I usually launched my attack from quite far out, say 2500 - 3000m.

But usually I get picked up by searchlights if my attack is within 1000m, which is what i try to do.

As regards the dive times, since the GWX manual points out that all units communicate with each other, I always figured that being illuminated by a searchlight meant they knew exactly where i was, so getting down fast was top priority. I'll avoid that next time.

Thx for the replies.

joe

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

Granted, it's March 1940, but still . . .

Wind 1 meter, clear sky, unlimited visibility. I'd already attacked this convoy once, around five hours prior, and before that had been detected (and chased!) three times while shadowing and pursuing.

This is a five-column convoy, with 9-10 ships per column. At the moment of this pic I'm heading towards the front third of the convoy, decks awash around 7.8 meters and at ahead slow. The closest ship is 1,100 meters, and they still haven't detected me! Around 50-60 degrees relative port to me is a destroyer, at 3,200 meters, and she hasn't detected me either.

I can't begin to describe the feeling this approach is giving me!

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l192/Albrecht_von_Hesse/theyneversawus.jpg

(pic has been edited to lighten it up for better visibility/viewing)

[Schwuppes]

Nice pic Albrecht Von Hesse!

Trust all went well! :)
Does the convoy not have any starboard or port escorts?

Oh and do you use manual targeting? If yes, how do you do it?

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

Nice pic Albrecht Von Hesse!

Trust all went well! :)
Does the convoy not have any starboard or port escorts?

Oh and do you use manual targeting? If yes, how do you do it?

Thanks!

So far so good, yes. From what I could determine after almost 24 hours of on-and-off contacts and shadowing, plus heading straight down their throats the first time (and only seeing neutrals!) then an outside intercept the second time (and Yay! finding British!) they'd started off with four escorts. But during the day, while I was shadowing them to stay in contact, three different times escorts spotted me when around 16km away. The second time one of them came out for a peek somehow they'd managed to zig instead of zag and got a ping on me. --mutters-- But they were just stooging along, not quite sure where I was, or even if I was there, and they . . . ummm . . . wound up eating a torpedo.

So now the convoy only has three escorts, and I seemed to have lucked out and been on the one side the escorts aren't. However, considering the lead escort passed by me at 2,800 meters while I was surfaced . . . --grins-- . . . I'm going to be cocky and say I'd still have snuck past 'em!

I finally got within 1,100 meters of the outer column. By then I could visually ID flags, and so . . .

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l192/Albrecht_von_Hesse/patiencepaysoff.jpg

Two torpedoes each into a granville-style freighter and a large merchant. Both went down in under 30 seconds!

I usually run manual targeting. Lately I've been doing auto and concentrating more on surface attack approaches, etc. Plus I've been practicing using OLC GUI, and I don't feel comfortable enough with that --yet!-- to do so in a career.