False contacts while on the surface?

[SlimDuce]

Howdy folks, I seem to be having a problem. I keep getting sounds contacts while on the surface, and radar contacts when I have no radar. SO frustrating, really killing the experiance for me at the moment. I have a clean install and am patched to 1.3.Matter of fact U unistalled, reinstalled, re-ran the patch before any mods were added and it is still happening. I am running several mods, but they are all graphical and sound mods with the expection of the Natural Sinking mod and the fewer radio contacts. Anyone have any idea why this would be happening? Thank ya'll
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/smartdark/user_online.gif http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/smartdark/edit.gif (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=661273)

[AVGWarhawk]

What do you mean false contacts while surfaced? Submarines could hear supersonic sound while surfaced as the sonar heads were under the chin as well as one on the deck. I believe the sonar while surfaced is a bit too good but we still have it in game as they did in RL. As far as radar contacts, do you mean the radar detecting aircraft? Very real also.

[panthercules]

Been wondering a little about this myself lately - running 1.3 with heavily modded RFB1.31 with NSM and ROW.

I'm pounding along surfaced at flank speed in light seas (5m/s) in mid-December 1941 in my Salmon class boat off the Luzon Straits, trying to chase down a Japanese task force in which I severely damaged a Mogami class cruiser before being forced down by the numerous destroyers. They've got a pretty good head start on me, and there are no visible contacts (good daylight visibility, so out to maybe 7-8 nm). Now I start getting sound contacts being called out. I know there were some sound heads below water-line, and I would anticipate being able to maybe hear something while surfaced at dead slow or all-stop, but at flank speed??? I haven't had time to do any real research, but something just "feels wrong" about this. I would have thought that the noise of our own engines and the water rushing by the hull, etc. would have made it virtually impossible to detect any meaningful sound signals while surfaced at flank speed.

Eventually I guess the radar will make this a non-issue, but in these early war, pre-radar patrols it seems kind of weird to be getting these contacts. Is there any way to tone this down based on your own boat's speed or else just disable the hydrophones from working on the surface? I thought I saw something about how to do this back when folks were trying to get the 'phones to work at periscope depth early on, but I haven't been able to locate those old threads yet.

[SlimDuce]

Man, I get those ALL the time. I swear the sub has better ears on the surface. As for the radar I get contacts even without having radar installed. It got even better just now, I was cruising along and not really paying attention. I ran out of gas. Stupid I know. Luckly I had sails on board for just such an occasion and I was able cruise to Brisbane at a brisk 15 knots. I have the limited fuel option checked off of course, but that wasnt the end of it.

I was on my way back home happy as can be with my new sails, when all of a sudden every single plane in the IJN attacked me. Oddly enough I shot most of them down, took some damage but was able to limp home. Funny thing was there wasnt an airbase around that could have launch that attack as I was not far from Brisbane at this point. Funnier still was this strike came from the mainland.

Add all this stuff plus the fact that I am constantly finding Allied shiping heading for Wake Island long after it fell, and I am beginning to think that this sim takes place in Bizzaro world. There has to be something wrong.

[WhiskeyBravo]

Check your realism settings maybe?

I don't get sonar contacts at all unless submerged.

Good luck,

WB.

[AVGWarhawk]

As I posted, yes, sonar could be used while surfaced but again, it is way too good IMO. I agree with you all that it is much better then it should be. Especially when your sub is at high speed. I believe it was a book about the Batfish were the skipper asked for very slow turns on the motors so the sonar man could hear noises while surfaced. I know the USS Torsk sonar gear works while surfaced yet again, the engines are not running. Work needs to done in this area for sonar but I believe it is hard coded and not much the modders can do about it.

[panthercules]

Well, I don't mind diving to do sound checks (and I'm not that keen on being surfaced at dead slow or all stop anyway, given the extra time it would take to get under in a hurry), so I would prefer just to disable the hydrophones on the surface until some enterprising modder figures out how to make your own boat's speed influence the effectiveness appropriately. IIRC, there was some setting in some file somewhere that could be tweaked to change the depth at which the hydrophones started working (at least I think that's what those earlier threads about getting them to work at periscope depth were saying - wish I could find them again) - does anybody know or remember where that setting is and whether it could be tweaked to have the phones start/stop working at maybe 35-40 feet or something?

[leovampire]

Well, I don't mind diving to do sound checks (and I'm not that keen on being surfaced at dead slow or all stop anyway, given the extra time it would take to get under in a hurry), so I would prefer just to disable the hydrophones on the surface until some enterprising modder figures out how to make your own boat's speed influence the effectiveness appropriately. IIRC, there was some setting in some file somewhere that could be tweaked to change the depth at which the hydrophones started working (at least I think that's what those earlier threads about getting them to work at periscope depth were saying - wish I could find them again) - does anybody know or remember where that setting is and whether it could be tweaked to have the phones start/stop working at maybe 35-40 feet or something?

Ducimus disabled the hydrophone balls basicly.

here is what he did:

/DATA/LIBRARY/USSUBPARTS/Sensors_sub_US.sim
-----------------------
HydrophoneBall->MaxSensorHeight from 0 to -4
HydrophoneBall02->MaxSensorHeight from 0 to -12
Hydrophone->MaxSensorHeight from 0 to -12

[Ducimus]

Ducimus disabled the hydrophone balls basicly.

here is what he did:

/DATA/LIBRARY/USSUBPARTS/Sensors_sub_US.sim
-----------------------
HydrophoneBall->MaxSensorHeight from 0 to -4
HydrophoneBall02->MaxSensorHeight from 0 to -12
Hydrophone->MaxSensorHeight from 0 to -12


Those look like my orginal settings for that modification. Later on i was able to figure out that one hydrophone is mounted on the deck (hence no adjustment neccessary). The other , hydrophone ball, is only used in the S class, and i think this one is also located on deck. So in the end, all that was neccessary to adjust was hydrophoneball02. Which is the chin mount on fleet boats. This bit im sure i would have documented in one of my changelogs.

This modification takes the thunder out of chin mounted hydrophones, but there wasnt any apparent way to make the hydrophoneball less effective the way i wanted to make it less effective (fast speed vs slow speed), so i opted to just disable its ability to be useable on the surface.

[leovampire]

Ducimus disabled the hydrophone balls basicly.

here is what he did:

/DATA/LIBRARY/USSUBPARTS/Sensors_sub_US.sim
-----------------------
HydrophoneBall->MaxSensorHeight from 0 to -4
HydrophoneBall02->MaxSensorHeight from 0 to -12
Hydrophone->MaxSensorHeight from 0 to -12


Those look like my orginal settings for that modification. Later on i was able to figure out that one hydrophone is mounted on the deck (hence no adjustment neccessary). The other , hydrophone ball, is only used in the S class, and i think this one is also located on deck. So in the end, all that was neccessary to adjust was hydrophoneball02. Which is the chin mount on fleet boats. This bit im sure i would have documented in one of my changelogs.

This modification takes the thunder out of chin mounted hydrophones, but there wasnt any apparent way to make the hydrophoneball less effective the way i wanted to make it less effective (fast speed vs slow speed), so i opted to just disable its ability to be useable on the surface.

So I decieded to pass the info along to them.

[Ducimus]

Ah hah! Found a post i made on this earlier.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=614390&postcount=10

[panthercules]

Great - thanks guys - I'll take a whack at turning them off on the surface for now. I assume this has no detrimental effect on the way they work while you're submerged?

[leovampire]

Great - thanks guys - I'll take a whack at turning them off on the surface for now. I assume this has no detrimental effect on the way they work while you're submerged?

It will not effect the sound head on the upper deck of the sub what we always use to use and rely on before the 1.3 patch anyways. So only adjust the sensor ball's.

[panthercules]

OK - minor problem here - I don't seem to have a tweak file for this sensor file for the minitweaker, so I tried using S3D, but there are so many nodes/things displayed in there that I can't figure out which one is the one I need to be messing with to make this change to the right hydrophone ball sensor. Any clue as to which node/location this is in S3D terms? (I'm guessing it's either 47, 49 or 53, with 49 being my leading candidate, but I'm really just guessing here based on it looking like it was the middle one of three hydrophone entries and these are the only three where the sensor is type 3 as well - plus 49 is the only one of these three where the maxsensorheight was zero, as seems to be indicated in the earlier thread )

[leovampire]

OK - minor problem here - I don't seem to have a tweak file for this sensor file for the minitweaker, so I tried using S3D, but there are so many nodes/things displayed in there that I can't figure out which one is the one I need to be messing with to make this change to the right hydrophone ball sensor. Any clue as to which node/location this is in S3D terms? (I'm guessing it's either 47, 49 or 53, with 49 being my leading candidate, but I'm really just guessing here based on it looking like it was the middle one of three hydrophone entries and these are the only three where the sensor is type 3 as well - plus 49 is the only one of these three where the maxsensorheight was zero, as seems to be indicated in the earlier thread )

I am looking at the original file now and I would say it is node# 49 that needs to be changed. Seems to be the only one with a zero for both MaxSensor height and max height.

#47 #49 and #51 all seem to be the ones for the under water sensors using S3D.

[SlimDuce]

Wow....you guys amaze me. Thanks all for looking into this and if there is any I can help please let me know

[leovampire]

Wow....you guys amaze me. Thanks all for looking into this and if there is any I can help please let me know

No worries SlimDuce and panthercules that is what we are here for to help make the game better for everyone and share idea's and info when we can. Can't please everyone with mod's usualy but something for an individual's game and his own changes is usualy a better way to go.