[WIP] All-new in-game interface for GWX

[onelifecrisis]

I thought I should let people know that I'm working on something, mostly in the hope that if anyone else is working on something similar then we can maybe colaborate, or at least let each other know! I have thought up some nice tricks :)

I'm making a new in-game interface for GWX. When I say "in-game" I mean not the menus/barracks/loading screens/etc - I am not touching those - I'm redesigning the in-game toolbar, periscope, control dials, etc. I know there are already a lot of good interfaces available so let me explain the two main reasons I decided to do this (and tell you about the mod while I'm at it ;)):

1) I wanted a fully integrated periscope and TDC. So far I have only seen partial integration; in all the interface mods I've seen, there is no "TDC auto-update" switch in the periscope view (often a keyboard shortcut key is used as a workaround for this). Also, the "glass" effect seen in the TDC is always missing from the periscope dials. These two things combined mean that there is no visual indication whatsoever as to whether or not the TDC switch is on or off. Oh, and lastly, the labels on the salvo tube selection dial are always either missing or "hardcoded" to a certain sub type (e.g. type VII).

Well I have managed to get a working TDC switch in all the periscope views :yep: :D and the 4 TDC solution dials (bearing, range, AOB, speed) to automatically hide from view when TDC auto-update is switched on, which provides immediate visual feedback to the player as well as keeping the screen uncluttered. I've also found a way to get the glass effect in the periscope view for the TDC dials. I actually have taken the glass off the 4 solution dials for readability, but I am using the glass effect on the salvo dials (tube selection and spread angle) to indicate when they are modifiable and when they aren't. Also, people using SH3 commander will have the added benefit of seeing the correct tube labels on the salvo tubes selection dial.

2) The mods I've seen mostly just add more dials to existing screens, wherever they will fit. There isn't much spare room on most screens least of all the periscope view, so sliding dials seem to have been very popular as a space saving device. But, I hate them! They're ugly and I'm always accidentally pulling them out from the edge of the screen. I wanted to redesign the screens from scratch to maximise space at 1024x768 resolution, so that all the necessary dials could be shown without anything sliding and without anything looking cluttered (and without shrinking anything! ;)). I feel I've managed to do this very well at least for my own tastes. There are other benefits to the redesign, for example, the recognition manual is no longer obscured by the control panel at the bottom of the screen.

So, those are the main two reasons. There's other less important things I'm trying to do (e.g. make the draggable chronometer clickable, make the current course show in numeric form like the the current depth and speed, and so on) with varying amounts of success - no promises (yet!) on these.

I realise that interfaces are very individual and everyone wants something different, but I reckon probably some people's GUI desires will be similar to mine, so this mod is for those people. And for me, obviously. :p

That's it for now. I'll post screenies as soon as they look good enough (right now it's very much WIP).

OLC

[Kodaita]

Sounds great, can't wait to see the screenshots.:up:

[Venatore]

About bloody time. :rock:

[Spruence M]

Man. Keep up the Good work fellow mariner.

I mean it. Been looking for something like this. Please make sure it works with integrated odrers.

[onelifecrisis]

I will release two versions - with and without IO. :up:

[ReallyDedPoet]

Will be a nice addition :yep:


RDP

[JCWolf]

Onelifecrises mate,
you have to clean up your PM,
just sent you a PM and it seems you have the PM box full mate...


time to clean the place bro!:lol:

[mic1184]

whooho finally someone who hates slideout dials too and actually tries something else. up to now i havent found a satisfying solution for myself for the dials and TDC stuff.

i always found the solution from SH4 perfect, with the magnifying dials and the very space effective TDC instrument. if there could be anything like that, i would pay for it...

would be cool to see some screenshots...

[Maraz]

1) I wanted a fully integrated periscope and TDC.

IIRC, Hitman was trying to incorporate some new gadgets in the periscope, some rotating dials that were actually present on KM periscopes. Maybe you could be able to help him.

Maraz

[onelifecrisis]

whooho finally someone who hates slideout dials too and actually tries something else. up to now i havent found a satisfying solution for myself for the dials and TDC stuff.

i always found the solution from SH4 perfect, with the magnifying dials and the very space effective TDC instrument. if there could be anything like that, i would pay for it...

would be cool to see some screenshots...

I don't think magnifying dials can be done in SH3 - at least not very well. After seeing a different thread on the matter I tried to think of a way with the 6 main dials but the best I managed was to replace the white-grey "new setting" needle with a full rotating dial which was much bigger than the normal dial, so that when you click on a small dial it becomes a big dial which rotates... but there would be problems with that solution: only the centre of the big dial would actually be workable (drag the mouse outside the original small dial which is behind the big dial and the big dial would disappear) and also the big dial would stick around for too long after being set at a new value. So instead I've come up with an alternative solution... screenies to come probably mid week (haven't been able to work on it this weekend :()

[onelifecrisis]

1) I wanted a fully integrated periscope and TDC.

IIRC, Hitman was trying to incorporate some new gadgets in the periscope, some rotating dials that were actually present on KM periscopes. Maybe you could be able to help him.

Maraz

Do you have a link?

I tried a search, but I don't know exactly what I'm looking for and didn't see anything obvious. I know a wazzawotsit is being done by someone... that device which lets you calculate target speed by getting on an intercept course... but I guess that's not what you're talking about?

Hitman are you reading this?

[papa_smurf]

Looking very much forward to the release of this mod:up:

[Maraz]

Do you have a link?

I tried a search, but I don't know exactly what I'm looking for and didn't see anything obvious. I know a wazzawotsit is being done by someone... that device which lets you calculate target speed by getting on an intercept course... but I guess that's not what you're talking about?

Hitman are you reading this?
This is where Hitman first talked of his project

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=117480

Maraz

[jaxa]

Any screenshots?

[Hitman]

Hi onelifecrisis

yes I'm reading this now....catching up as fast as I can :p since I'm currently off for weekends and can only read the forums monday to thursday.

Someone I can't disclose now has been doing a hell of a work with much stuff I provided him, and he is willing to do a release soon, but it will not be a final version. It is instead thought of as a kind of "evolutionary" mod, that will be updated in the future, time permitting. The objective is to recreate all the gadgets that were available in real life in the attack periscopes for speed and AOB estimation.

I guess his and your work would be very well complementary :up:

I will contact him per PM. Be sure to empty your PM box and allow the pop-up warning about a message received, you could get PM soon.:up:

Cheers

[onelifecrisis]

Maraz, thanks for the link :up:

Hitman, thanks for the update - that sounds like a great WIP; we might finally get real-life targetting methods in SH3! :rock:

I'll wait for a PM from the anonymous modder. Doesn't sound like our mods would be compatible if released seperately so hopefully I'll be able to get his permission to include his work in my mod... we'll see!

[onelifecrisis]

Is there anyone here who speaks German and would be willing to help me with a handful of translations?

Edit: a helpful person replied via PM. Thanks :)

[onelifecrisis]

Is there anyone here who speaks German and would be willing to help me with a handful of translations?

Edit: a helpful person replied via PM. Thanks :)

Same question for French! Anyone?

[onelifecrisis]

The periscope screen is starting to take it's final shape, so I thought I'd post a preview as promised. Please note that this is still WIP, so some minor aspects of what you see here will change slightly before the interface is finished (and there will be more additions soon, notably the 6 main control dials) but really this is pretty close to a final version.

Manual TDC / Single Torpedo
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1410/1440880199_ad40d059c1_o.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1116/1441739532_2f7a5aa120_o.jpg


Auto TDC / Salvo
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1156/1440881145_bf57394edb_o.jpg

I hope that gives you a good idea of where the interface is headed :)

Feedback is welcome!

OLC

[Woof1701]

Very interesting. Thanks! Will need some getting used to, but it looks like you get a good overview of all major data you need.
Will it be possible to close the Ship ID book (Erkennungshandbuch) completely, or does it always block part of the view.
And will the 6 control dials be slideout?

[onelifecrisis]

Yes, if you're used to the normal interface then this one requires some un-doing of habits, which can take a little while :lol: but for me it's worth it.

The recognition manual does go away just like before but I posted screenies with "everything out" so ppl can see the way its organised.

The 6 dials (which can be completely hidden using a button) appear on the left, over the water-level thing, when visible. More than that I can't say as I'm still playing around with them...

[Maraz]

This looks _very_ promising... :up: :up:

Maraz

[Bosk]

Great work! :up:

Can you please prepare a beta version so we can test it out and give you our feedback?
It looks like just the kind of thing I've been wanting for ages, no more having to F6 everytime I want to adjust my torpedo settings, F5 back to periscope, F6 to tweak the settings some more, F5 back to periscope.. you get the idea!
Being able to do it all on one screen will be excellent particularly for times where you only have a few seconds to tee up the shot.

[onelifecrisis]

Thanks Maraz :D

Great work! :up:

Can you please prepare a beta version so we can test it out and give you our feedback?
It looks like just the kind of thing I've been wanting for ages, no more having to F6 everytime I want to adjust my torpedo settings, F5 back to periscope, F6 to tweak the settings some more, F5 back to periscope.. you get the idea!
Being able to do it all on one screen will be excellent particularly for times where you only have a few seconds to tee up the shot.

Just so you know... this is not the first mod that integrates the TDC with the scope! In the interests of being fair and helpful I should tell you there are others, many in fact, and you might find one of those preferable, although obviously I hope you'll like mine best :smug: ;)

I won't have a beta ready for a few more days - so you might want to spend that time checking out the competition. :)

[Bosk]

Thanks for your reply!

I'll definately wait for you to release a beta in that case, waiting a few days or even a week isn't going to kill me. ;)

Your new interface definately looks like it will be 'the business'. I really like the space-saving aspect of the main officer/messages bar too. It's far more optimized the way you've done it.

Keep up the good work. :yep:

[Huskalar]

The screenshots look very promising indeed. :up: Looking forward to the release. :yep:

[Oldhat]

I have allways wanted someting like this interface. looking forward to the release:p
:up:
Tank you for the work

[nikbear]

Very impressive work:up:

[U49]

I saw the TDC/single torpedo screen shot and .... WOW!

I always whished for the flow of target selection, designation, aiming and shooting as Kapitän and I WO had done it. The periscope was always observing the target's movement, waiting for the hint of a zig-zag.
I even thought about entering the spoken commands for the torpedo settings by keybord, but I didn't want to leave the targets unobserved.

GREAT IDEA!

[Myxale]

Sleek design man:rock:

That for sure.

[KaustikSoda]

Scrumptious :rock:

[onelifecrisis]

Glad to hear folks are interested :D

Unfortunately I won't be making much progress this week - RL is getting in the way, a lot. :(

Next week I'll be back to work with a vengeance :arrgh!:

[Canovaro]

It looks great!
You might want to bind the F6 key to something else now...I always hated that attack map thing ;)

But...wouldn't it be better to wait for GWX 1.04 and see what the guys have come up with? Who knows they might have done the same thing.

[onelifecrisis]

It looks great!

Thanks :)

But...wouldn't it be better to wait for GWX 1.04 and see what the guys have come up with? Who knows they might have done the same thing.

Well, that's why I started this thread - to see if anyone was doing this already. See the first paragraph of the first post! If the GWX team were changing the interface I think (hope) they would have told me by now. But I doubt that they are changing it; the GWX manual says something about "making the transition from stock SH3 to GWX as easy as possible" and I think that's why they've never changed the interface much from stock. That's all supposition though. GWX team - if I'm wrong, don't hit me!!

[onelifecrisis]

Sweet - now that joegrundman has made his announcement, I can make mine :D

Yep, the tools that joegrundman and Hitman have been working on will be integrated into this interface (say that ten times quickly) and let me tell you these tools are awesome :rock:

Screenies to follow when I get back home and resume work on the mod.

Thanks to Joe and Hitman for allowing me to participate in, and use, their work. :)

[onelifecrisis]

It appears I've made a faux pas, by not asking the GWX team for permission to release a mod for their mod (I was under the impression that permission would be needed only if I released the mod as a general SH3 mod, which would involve actually borrowing their files as opposed to releasing new files that point at them).

I know the forum rules say that these matters should be handled via PM but as there are so many people involved in the making of GWX I thought a forum post might be more appropriate (and a lot easier).

I think I need not actually apologise as I haven't actually released anything to anyone, but I do ask for permission to do so and offer my assurances that if said permission is not granted, the mod will not be released.

Sincerely,
OLC

[Kpt. Lehmann]

It appears I've made a faux pas, by not asking the GWX team for permission to release a mod for their mod (I was under the impression that permission would be needed only if I released the mod as a general SH3 mod, which would involve actually borrowing their files as opposed to releasing new files that point at them).

I know the forum rules say that these matters should be handled via PM but as there are so many people involved in the making of GWX I thought a forum post might be more appropriate (and a lot easier).

I think I need not actually apologise as I haven't actually released anything to anyone, but I do ask for permission to do so and offer my assurances that if said permission is not granted, the mod will not be released.

Sincerely,
OLC

I will be handling this by PM. In so doing, it will very likely save you a measure of embarassment. If you are using GWX files as your base, as per the sticky up top, permissions are required.

We will not handle permissions in public. If you are in doubt as to who you should ask, you can PM me (I am the GWX project manager for better or for worse... take your pick.) and I will point you in the right direction and/or confer with GWX devs that it may effect, and assist with crediting that you may not be fully aware of. In rare cases, we reserve the right to decline permission.

Impatience or rudeness, will not help the messenger making said inquiries in the slightest. Same hour or next day responses are not guaranteed and silence should NOT be construed as consent. GWX is currently being actively supported and further developed.

I will handle your request/issue as I am able.

[onelifecrisis]

I will be handling this by PM. In so doing, it will very likely save you a measure of embarassment.

That was unnecessary.

...impatience or rudeness...

I, unlike you, have displayed neither of those traits in this matter, in public or in PM, until now:

If enduring this sort of high-horsed pompous bullsh!t is a prerequisite for obtaining permission then consider the request withdrawn. The mod will not be released, as per my previous assurance.

Sincerely,
OLC

[Kpt. Lehmann]

I will be handling this by PM. In so doing, it will very likely save you a measure of embarassment.

That was unnecessary.

...impatience or rudeness...

I, unlike you, have displayed neither of those traits in this matter, in public or in PM, until now:

If enduring this sort of high-horsed pompous bullsh!t is a prerequisite for obtaining permission then consider the request withdrawn. The mod will not be released, as per my previous assurance.

Sincerely,
OLC

Oh it was quite necessary given your previous posting history and attitude problem with us and or me.

You will be the first that we are now denying permission to IIRC.

I'm glad I checked this thread before sending the PM I'd just finished.

Permission is hereby denied for you to use GWX files as your base. However, for all to see, here is the copy of our PM session (was like pulling teeth just to get a simple answer to determine if you even needed to ask permission)

Be advised, I work full time, have returned to school at night, and still continue to manage GWX. I received your PM while I was at work. As I said... Impatience won't help anyone. I'm tired as hell and don't have time for your crap.

Please disregard the following approval.

My response:
Very well, permission is granted provided that you incorporate further crediting information that I will be sending you tomorrow or later in the week.

I will also need to know if you will be making a version that is compatible with the "GWX Integrated Orders" optional interface mod that comes with GWX.

To answer one of your earlier questions regarding its compatability with GWX 1.04. It will likely function without crashing or preventing the player from running patrols etc... but it will break/remove other new intended features/changes. Those changes will remain confidential until release. However, as long as you are keeping track of your changes, it should be a simple (though tedious to be sure) matter to seamlessly integrate yours with the 1.04 update.

Yes.

I have responded to your post on your WIP thread. However, you still have not answered my question. Does your mod begin with GWX files as the basis for your project?

Very well - please see my forum post (in my WIP thread).

Your reply threw me at first but I think I can guess what you're saying: that I should have asked for permission to make a GWX-specific mod? Even if that mod is not released outside of GWX as a "general" mod? (I have asked permission for the latter in the GWX thread)

Good day,

I'm getting a little anxious about the lack of any kind of reply to my "GWX Interface" thread from anyone involved in GWX, and thought it might be a good idea to just ask you about it. All I want to know is whether or not GWX 1.04 will in fact have a altered/redesigned interface.

Thanks in anticipation of your reply.
onelifecrisis

I'm going to assume that you haven't yet read this:http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=115983

The outcome/our reply will be dependant on your reply or lack of it as the case may be.

Does your mod not begin with GWX files as your base?

[Dowly]

Oohh.. temper temper... :hmm:

[dcb]

Here goes another nice mod down the drain:down:

Well, given the current course of events, maybe the [WIP] thread title tag should be changed to [RIP].

[TheDarkWraith]

what exactly do you need for this mod from GWX? Why can't it be made based on SH3 1.4b files? I hate to see a mod go down the tubes because of permission problems. Need to find another way to do it now.

[Jhereg]

Holy Crap, what a shame.:hmm:

Is this just another classic case of people letting the written word distort their perceived intentions or what. In some ways I think forums are the hardest means of communications which is why until this board I have always just lurked.

This is the first board where I felt everyone was comfortable with the understanding that we should not jump to conclusions about someones intent and politley clarify if neccessary, taking as much time as needed.

Oh well, perhaps I was wrong.

[onelifecrisis]

what exactly do you need for this mod from GWX? Why can't it be made based on SH3 1.4b files? I hate to see a mod go down the tubes because of permission problems. Need to find another way to do it now.

I've just deleted my second attempt at a concise reply to this. Suffice it to say, it's possible but not all that simple (and certainly would be very time consuming) especially now that I know that my mod will not be compatible with GWX 1.04.

[Huskalar]

I was really looking forward to the release of this mod (or something similar). It's a shame it had to end this way. :nope:

[WOD]

I was really looking forward to the release of this mod (or something similar). It's a shame it had to end this way. :nope:

This is exactly what I actually thought as I´ve read the last posts in this thread. I have looked forward to this mod and want it (speaking only for me but I´m sure that many of the subsim-community are thinking the same)...translated a few words to german for OLC.

The point is, there have to be a way to get this mod...depends on both sides....OLC and KL. When there is a will from both sides then there is a way for the community to get this one.

Please don´t let this mod go down the road of never seeing the light of the world in SH3-GWX.

Maybe the GWX Team can release this mod as optional mod with 1.04 with permission of OLC...how already said if there´s a will then there will always be a way!

[Friedl9te]

I appreciate the work and many thousands of manhours, spent by the GWX Team and every other modder to improve and further SHIII.:up:
But the owner of every single file is still UBISOFT. It is their property, no doubt about.
We all legitimate owners of the SHIII-licence have only the right to use this simulation.
Any modification, regardless whether it is only small or it is that big like GWX, still belongs to UBI. And they need not even say "Thank you."
And I doubt, if the GWX Team or anybody else has a written paper from UBI telling that from now on GWX is the owner of the files, they reworked.
It is a (moral) duty to give credits, shure, but no modder should ever "not allow" or even "forbid" another supermodification or rerework. Never ever.:nope:
Nobody except UBISOFT is in the legal position to permit or forbid anything.

[Penelope_Grey]

Yes the files all belong to Ubisoft, however, as was discussed at length here once upon a time there is a certain modding etiquitte that should be followed. And most of the modders on the forum agree to it. Its pretty much a given norm that mods are the work of the people who made them, even if the canvas belongs to Ubi.

And it was decided as part of said ettiquitte if the owner(s) of said mod(s) say, no you may not use it, then that's that, case closed. What was decided on these forums here was a sort of moral consensus.

[TheDarkWraith]

Yes the files all belong to Ubisoft, however, as was discussed at length here once upon a time there is a certain modding etiquitte that should be followed. And most of the modders on the forum agree to it. Its pretty much a given norm that mods are the work of the people who made them, even if the canvas belongs to Ubi.

And it was decided as part of said ettiquitte if the owner(s) of said mod(s) say, no you may not use it, then that's that, case closed. What was decided on these forums here was a sort of moral consensus.

I agree with FriedL9te's point of view that ultimately Ubi owns the files and thus indirectly the mods made with those files. It was their idea and their files that ultimately gave us this game and thus the mods made for it. BUT I agreed to this forum's etiquette and thus if a modder say's no it's means no on this forum. But outside this forum one cannot control the actions of others. I, for one, would not do such a thing for I have integrity and thus respect the decisions of others.

[Penelope_Grey]

Friedl9te is correct in what he says yes. Ubi does own the files, that gives them free reign, not us. However, its the modders work on the files that makes them what they are. Its the work, that we ask permission to use. In effect, modding ettiquite is all about asking can I use your work for the basis of mine for this end result. Its like borrowing a friends tools.

[HunterICX]

OW ffs...

this kind of topics have been overtalked..about the so called permission
its not about ''who bloody owns the freaking files''
its about having a bit of respect for others work on the files.
thats whats the permission is about...having a slight bit of respect

but nah, some prefer to have some cocky attitude about something so small...
there is a lot more to get out of SH3 when people work together instead of trying to make eachothers options to mod it as small as possible.

[Elphaba]

I don't usually post on this thread, I'm kinda getting into SHIV now that the patches actually made it pretty much work as advertised.

However I stumbled across this thread and took a look at the screen shots and was REALLY impressed. This is just the kind of thing that raises the bar - the better UI in SHIV is now possible in the 'better game' SHIII.

I'm quite new to subsims and this forum, but I do check it daily. And this is the first fall out I've EVER seen on this board... and I am actually shocked.

My initial response was to shout "Boy's stop being so bloody childish and get a grip!", but that was hours ago. I've come away and thought about it from both sides.

I think I understand that GWX is an 'on-going' mod, and that at some point 1.04 will be released. Great stuff 1.03 is awesome! So I can understand the 'project manager's' feelings that ANY work that alters 1.03 and therefore could have a serious knock on effect to 1.04 would need to be checked and cleared with the GWX team first.

I also understand what the thread originator was trying to do, and that is something that as of 1.03 has never really been address in GWX - making the periscope view the central and only point for the setting and launching of the torpedos.

I think his work is fantastic, brilliant and totally needed. I even like his arrangement.

What I want to say is this, and I hope that I will not be 'attacked' in retaliation and I do not profess to know of any / all the backstory between the two parties involved...that being said...

We are ALL here to play and enjoy these games as much as possible. It is WITHOUT DOUBT that the GWX team has gone above and beyond to out class and out perform the original dev team for SHIII. They are genius' and should be praised as such.

However I was open mouthed and blindsided by that attitude and approach that the 'project manager' took IMMEDIATELY with the mod designer... It was (in my opinion) rude, harsh, unwarranted and came off as VERY, VERY ELITIST. Snobbery.

The kind of thing you hear kids saying... "...these are MY toys and YOU can't play with them!!! Mom! I'm telling !!!!"

Now I am NOT 'having a go' at anyone, but surely, in this forum, we all love these games and want to enjoy them and really appreciate each others skills and efforts.

So why can't the 'project manager' just back down, take a deep breath and play nice? And why can't the mod designer just for the sake of the greater good, apologise for SEEMING to 'tred on GWX's toes' and for them both to work together and release something VERY valuable and worthwhile - for the WHOLE community.

We're grown adults, playing a serious game - can't we put the pettyness and territorial 'pissing matches' behind us and just get along?

I am very saddened by this thread and the attitudes herein, NOBODY works on ANYTHING IN ISOLATION. In every game, walk of life - anything, we ALL stand on the shoulders of great men and women who have gone before us and allow us to reach just a little higher.

Surely at the end of the day, it's not about ''ME, ME, ME'' - but about the SHIII / Subsim community as a whole.

The GWX team wouldn't have been able to do what they've done without UBISOFT, UBISOFT couldn't have got that far without knowledge and experience from other people and companines and so on all the way back to cavemen picking up rocks.

The mod designer was just trying to reach a little higher.

For the benefit of everyone, can't you just settle this?

Elphaba

[onelifecrisis]

This UBISOFT/ownership/rules debate is pointless. There are no rules here other than those that we choose to impose on ourselves. I could release the mod and there'd be nothing that anyone on the GWX team could do to stop me, and we all know it, so debating the "rules" serves no purpose. The reasons I'm not releasing the mod are dignity and self-respect; some (perhaps many) people here would think less of me if I did release it.

I challenge any modder here to deny that they take pride in their work and that that pride swells when other people like and enjoy their work. If that pride has to be swallowed in order to get the mod released then the point of releasing the mod is (for the modder) destroyed.

Therefore, to make this mod releasable I'd need to rework the images I've made, all of which used GWX tga's as a base (and get permission from JonZ and FLB Sale to use their images as well). That would be quite a bit of work, and to face after that the prospect of all the rework that (according to Kpt. L) will be required to make it compatible with 1.04, I'm not sure it's worth it. To be honest, the witholding of that infortmation (the compatibility with 1.04) despite my prior requests for it has infuriated me far more than anything else, because its simply spiteful, and I'm quite shocked that not one member of the GWX team bothered to have the decency to inform me. You'd think that even the most rotten tree would have a good apple on it somewhere...

[danlisa]

.........and I'm quite shocked that not one member of the GWX team bothered to have the decency to inform me. You'd think that even the most rotten tree would have a good apple on it somewhere...

I was quite content to let this roll on without getting involved. Not now.:stare:

It's comment like that which work against you and you have just demonstrated why you were denied permission. You have no respect.

Who the hell do you think you are? NOBODY, outside of the GWX team get's information about unreleased files. Everyone else waits for a general release, why should you be different?

Put your toys back in your pram and resume sucking your thumb.

Feck, this forum is going down the crapper.

[KrvKpt. Falke]

This UBISOFT/ownership/rules debate is pointless.
Yes, thats why: release it for god sake!
I really want it :P

About this permission thing: in case of your mod its not required - in my opinion, cause your mod was intended for use WITH GWX (as i understand it) and would be used by those who have gwx installed. If gwx can mod stock sh3, than you can mod gwx, isnt it?

Besides, you sure must have done a lot of work on this mod, dont waste it.

And i don't care about 1.04 anymore; its not here, 1.03 is here, and while waiting for next version why not mod current?

[onelifecrisis]

you are NOBODY

And you, I presume, think you are somebody? That speaks volumes.

I did not ask to see GWX 1.04 files, I simply asked whether certain files were being changed in such a way that would make my mod incompatible with them. That's a yes/no question. A single yes or no is hardly giving away critical information from the project that you "somebodys" are working on.

[onelifecrisis]

About this permission thing: in case of your mod its not required - in my opinion, cause your mod was intended for use WITH GWX (as i understand it) and would be used by those who have gwx installed. If gwx can mod stock sh3, than you can mod gwx, isnt it?

Having read the "rules" very carefully after KL's PM, I decided his interpretation of them was valid and my post here asking for permission followed.

[danlisa]

you are NOBODY
And you, I presume, think you are somebody? That speaks volumes.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v324/Spider-Hulk/GWXforum/Smileys/happy.gif

Oh, bravo! Nicely quoted!
You have just proved to the whole forum that you are quite willing to be deceitful to get your point/way.

Shall I post my actual response so that everyone can see what you did?

Who the hell do you think you are? NOBODY, outside of the GWX team get's information about unreleased files.
Now, who can spot the difference.

Nice try dimwhit.

[onelifecrisis]

Yes, I edited out the question mark to highlight the meaning that your comma (the one right after "nobody") rather obviously implies.

Edited to remove unnecessary and inflamatory comments.

[KrvKpt. Falke]

OOOhh come on! Stop fighting!
Think of all those new people visiting subsim everyday - they want to play sh3, they heard a lot about how well sh3 is modded, they wanted to found out what they can do with their game, heard a lot about GWX, heard a lot about this place, and what...they read this!

Just calm down.

[Friedl9te]

Ruhig Männer, ruhig, das ist noch gar nichts ...

The discussion has now reached such a deep level a serious SHIII forum does not deserve. At this point it is absolutely senseless to continue this thread.
We all know what Danlisa intended to tell us, it was written very clearly and needs not to be discussed any more.
But (@Danlisa) there is no need to shout, shouting is always a sign of weakness.

Onlifecrisis position is clear too. He wanted to give the community another goodie.
But following the rules of this forum he ceased working on this project.
And mind, this project did not adress ann issue GWX is dealing with.
The GWXPeri view is very close to stock.

Lets wait and see until GWX 1.04 will be released, the GWX Team retires and dissolves. In fact I regret that, but we have to accept !!!
SHIII will still be played after this event. In my opinion a mod that is finished does no more belong to the modders but to the Community.

Every mod does things that have been done by other mods in a similar or even equal way. The GWX Team has not invented modding and for shure they altered files and elements that have been changed before by other mods ore use adjustments or code that may even have been used (invented) before by other modders.
Did they ask anybody for allowance. I presume no, they did not. Why should they ?

Finally I apologize for my poor english because I am an Austrian guy.

[Friedl9te]

@Onelifecrisis
To return to the initial theme, how could you manage to duplicate the auto/manual swith/knob in the peri screen and make it work?

I asked Sale and he said he gave up, its impossible.

[Dowly]

you are NOBODY
And you, I presume, think you are somebody? That speaks volumes.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v324/Spider-Hulk/GWXforum/Smileys/happy.gif

Oh, bravo! Nicely quoted!
You have just proved to the whole forum that you are quite willing to be deceitful to get your point/way.

Shall I post my actual response so that everyone can see what you did?

Who the hell do you think you are? NOBODY, outside of the GWX team get's information about unreleased files.
Now, who can spot the difference.

Nice try dimwhit.

Okie.. now this thread has devolved to a whooole new level: Sh*t... :yep:

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Seems to me that onelifecrisis has been looking for a way around dealing with us directly.

Concerning OLC's problem with this decision... it can be viewed as someone that kicks you on one day... and expects someone to be okay with that on the next day. This kind of poop just doesn't float in real life... nor should it on a public forum.

I think that those who know me... also know that an apology when it is called for... does not break my jaw. When I am wrong... I am usually quite wrong. I have my pride, as we all do, but I try like hell to not put 'my pride' first. The team and the project come first... in that order.

We also do everything that we can in terms of the Subsim community's interest.
It would be shocking to many of you just how much work our guys have done in the background without any expectation of fanfare... to ensure the success of others hopes and aims... even if the material was completely unrelated to GWX interests. It is very likely you will never know the entirety of this story... and we are happy to leave it as such.

No apology is called for here. It has always been customary to ask permission prior to using the work of others. The entire concept of asking for permission is pointless without the possibility of refusal. This is part of what helps keep this forum calm on most days.

That is until some self-serving person without care or concern for others work cannot see past his/her own selfishness and chooses to disregard convention.

What really amazes me is the sense of ENTITLEMENT and EXPECTATION that new/other modders have when it comes to work that WE/GWX devs have done. The LEAST other modders can do is treat the work and the individuals who have
released/produced that work with a little respect. They don't have to like us, and we don't have to like them, to give and get permissions.

I cannot recall ever before having played the "Project Manager disgression" note at Subsim for the simple reason that it can be viewed as unreasonable, arrogant, egotistical etc. However, as long as I am... and no matter how tired I may be... I REFUSE to be an empty suit.

I will always try to do the right thing as I see it... and in so doing I will continue to collect accusations of being egotistical, snobbish, further threats of violence, and further accusations of being a Nazi sympathizer etc etc etc.

Doing 'the right thing' and/or taking a hard line on occasion is certainly not the easy way to deal with things. However, we have done so on a number of occasions and we will continue to do so.

Whether it is reasonable for me to feel this way or not... I feel that it is my responsibility to be a 'gate-keeper' and to protect the work, dev team and contributor personal wishes concerning permissions for files they've modified that are included in GWX, and the integrity of the project as a whole. If you don't
like this... tough noogies.

I also have no doubt that if I am being a jerk... that the GWX crew will say so. I also have no doubt, that my continued existence as the 'project manager' remains in the hands this team. Indeed this matter has always been in their hands.

Still, after TWO YEARS of working with this project and dev teamers... I consider them my friends in a very real sense... and God help those that screw with my friends... my crew. Those people can GO TO HELL!

Without these guys... the GWX ship sinks.

For those who feel that I'm the bastard of the week... reread my posts and messages on this thread, and until slapped by onelifecrisis, you will likely find them quite dry and to the point... an attempt to gather information and to be helpful to OLC regardless of my personal feelings.

We have not bullied anyone. We simply will not have our arms twisted to meet the expectations of a grand-stander.

People will bitch and whine no matter what we do... and when we do not fall in line with their expected decisions or conditions... they scream bloody murder. Today is no different in that respect. Many just want their candy NOW and without regard to where it comes from. They just stick their grubby little hands out and say, "GIMMEE GIMMEE GIMMEE!" Nothing will change that... but we will stand in
the way of cavalier attitudes and the sort of contempt that onlifecrisis is showing here.

Come what may.

[dertien]

This is indeed not a Ubisoft/modder ownership matter like OLC said. It is rules like this that kill the motivation of future and veteran modders alike.

GWX has done some great work for SH3 and I thank them for it, but lets face it. I don't think that there's much more 'stock-material' left in SH3 to mod that hasn't been modded by GWX or any other supermod for that matter.

As a modder, you will automatically start with the best files, whether they were previousely modded or not is insignificant ! Let's start acting as a community make this sim better, get off our high horses and give credit to the people that worked on the files. WTF more does that modder want ? ??? a medal ??? an approval from the queen ?

In my case, I am absolutely not the supermodder, nor do I have the skills to do the things like for example DivinDuck, Iambecomelife or Racerboy do. But I have a skill all of us modders should have.

TOLERANCE.

I am proud that someone uses my mod or file as a base for their own work. Even if they don't ask permission. As long as credit is given... what's the big deal ?

Get rid of stupid rules, and all your lives will become much easier.

Just my 2 cents

[Kpt. Lehmann]

The problem you describe Dertien, does not arise when someone wishes to mod stock SH3 or even to create a mod for GWX... The problem arises when you go straight to GWX and use it as your "supply depot." When this occurs, you should ask permission.

There are very good reasons for this that I posted earlier... most importantly the preservation of credits belonging to previous contributors.

They have earned the right for their names and mention of their contributions to be carried forward.

It is a matter of common decency. Nothing more than this was expected from OLC.

Without the posted guidelines, we have nothing better than anarchy here... and to hell with that.

To protect the freedom of modding and to stand against the free-for-all scrum that this forum could turn into... you must take in the whole picture.

Those modders did not get paid for the work they so unselfishly gave... they cannot get the time in life back that they spent to make the simulation better.

We ALL OWE them the recognition that they deserve... a few simple words in an included readme.

Anything less is pure and simple lazyness and greed.

[WOD]

This whole damned thing remembers me on the GWX-Dev Team issues with the LivingSH3 Autor (AASelle)...caused by the Radio-Messages file (The reason for me in those days to avoid the german ubi forum til now).

Then the rude words to Carotio cause he has used GWX Files as basefiles of his mod (although things there are a bit different, cause he never asked for permission...so I can understand it).

But I don´t/won´t/can´t understand the rude words against OLC...He has asked for permission (ok a little late but he has, and he has done it before releasing his mod).

And BTW noone is perfect and free from making mistakes (and OLC made no mistake...would has been one if he would has released his mod without asking for permission, but how already said, he has asked)

The next point is that such events will hit the community, and will destroy it too, maybe more early or maybe later...but some talented modders will think twice before doing something for the community or maybe they also leave this place too.

[Carotio]

Then the rude words to Carotio cause he has used GWX Files as basefiles of his mod (although things there are a bit different, cause he never asked for permission...so I can understand it).

But I don´t/won´t/can´t understand the rude words against OLC...He has asked for permission (ok a little late but he has, and he has done it before releasing his mod).

Hey,
when the permission thingy showed up, I didn't think this was so important to some people, and I still don't get it, credits should be enough, I actually did the same as OLC: ask for permission late, but just got a rude: "shove off"

Anyway, I only post because my name was mentioned.
I don't want to contribute to this discussion any further!

I only want to say this:
I think we all can agree that we disagree about this issue!

[Kpt. Lehmann]

I think a few people are reading these posts far too swiftly.

If anyone has been rude, it has been onelifecrisis.

It wasn't me that began posting rudely... and certainly not danlisa. OLC edited danlisa's post to pervert its meaning.

Only a wooden person would be okay with that.

[Dowly]

People are screaming and crying at US because they dont get something that ONELIFECRISIS promised before even asking the permission?

Soooo, how about stop crying and lynch the right guy? http://www.gamestar.hu/forum/html/emoticons/szm.gif

[WOD]

...I actually did the same as OLC: ask for permission late, but just got a rude: "shove off"

ok sorry...then I can´t understand the words against you in those days neither

Agreed. I don't want to contribute to this discussion any further too, cause I have got to work right now. Damned late shift.

But all in all better to work then to see how some people act with harsh, rude words...Perhaps better taking a flamethrower and make a barbecue

[Kpt. Lehmann]

We have already run all over this ground!

It is because of events like this that the recommended modding guidelines were established in the first place.

People would be WELL ADVISED to read them... they are STICKIED in the mods forums here for all to see!

Those guidelines serve ALL! They do not serve only GWX aims or matters. Like ANYONE ELSE we too ask for permission to use ANY externally built mod great or small!!! When we do ask... we do not expect EXPECT that permission will always be obtained!

We are talking of very simple matters that pertain to COMMON DECENCY and MUTUAL RESPECT!!!

Ignore those guidelines at your peril... and do not be surprised to meet resistance if you do ignore them.

[danlisa]

@ WOD

There is a long post history between Carotio & GWX/GW.

Please do not presume that one sentence is the complete story.

@ ALL

This matter of permissions & credit has been discussed and a common ground has been reached. See this thread - http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=115983

If these guidelines are not to your liking, take it up with the management.

The guides in the sticky were discussed by the community to avoid such instances as this, which starting happening too frequently.

If modders (future/present) do not follow these guidelines then what's the point in any of us continuing?

[JCWolf]

One life crises, is a hell of a guy,
I hope everyone here can have
a grown atitutude and just treat
this carefuly...

I is not a bad Dude, and he is not
with rong intentions, this is not
very fair as far as I can see!

He allways asked me permision
to use any files of mine!

I think what goes here is that he gets so excitated when creating
something that he forgot to ask this permision, but
I also think that we should suporte him as a modder and
as a fellow Community user...


Just mi thoughts and opinion on this all isue!

[Kpt. Lehmann]

One life crises, is a hell of a guy,
I hope everyone here can have
a grown atitutude and just treat
this carefuly...

I is not a bad Dude, and he is not
with rong intentions, this is not
very fair as far as I can see!

He allways asked me permision
to use any files of mine!

JCWolf, I hold you in very high regard... and you've been a friend to me for a very long time. I would defend you still today. However, I must say that you are seeing only a small part of the picture here.

OLC, has really stepped in the poop... and is going to have to take those shoes off before he steps back into the kitchen.

[Hitman]

Well, aside from the personal feelings and remarks about this all, no real harm has been done. OLC readed the recommended courtesy rules, understood them and followed them. No permission (Whatever the reason), no release, he has accepted that. Period.

Hopefully in the future things calm down and a new look at this affair is possible. Let this discussion end now if possible, no need to further add anything as all has been said :yep:

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Well, aside from the personal feelings and remarks about this all, no real harm has been done. OLC readed the recommended courtesy rules, understood them and followed them. No permission (Whatever the reason), no release, he has accepted that. Period.

Hopefully in the future things calm down and a new look at this affair is possible. Let this discussion end now if possible, no need to further add anything as all has been said :yep:

Agreed.

[Dowly]

Okie dokie.

Anyone want a beer? Hunter air dropped few cases to my foxhole. :up:

[Jimbuna]

Probably for the best. (there was a great deal I had intended to add had RL not intervened)

Apologies for being unable to respond until this late juncture Kpt.
But following on from our TS conversation this morning (8am GMT) and pending exam at 10am it would appear matters are now settled.

The exam seemed to go okay as well.....thanks again sir ;)

Drinks are on Dowly :()1:

Hang on to yer drawers though.... :p

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/9297/watchoutpennytheferretsna5.gif (http://imageshack.us)

[Kpt. Lehmann]

The exam seemed to go okay as well.....thanks again sir ;)

Drinks are on Dowly :()1:



No worries mate. That is a relief to hear. :up: :up: :up: Will catch up with you in a bit.

[KaustikSoda]

What! over already, I can't believe it.. where is all the fun.
I rushed here as fast as I could only to find a frightening looking ferret and some Grey Wolves with a satisfied smile on their lips, drinking beer!
Nice, just Nice.

[JCWolf]

One life crises, is a hell of a guy,
I hope everyone here can have
a grown atitutude and just treat
this carefuly...

I is not a bad Dude, and he is not
with rong intentions, this is not
very fair as far as I can see!

He allways asked me permision
to use any files of mine!

JCWolf, I hold you in very high regard... and you've been a friend to me for a very long time. I would defend you still today. However, I must say that you are seeing only a small part of the picture here.

OLC, has really stepped in the poop... and is going to have to take those shoes off before he steps back into the kitchen.


Maybe is that,
I do not want to make part of any of this
"War party's" that I think Kpt will only get away people that
can realy do and bring diferent stuff into the game!

However I respect you to much to get in the Oposing side
who ever might be , the problem it's not fully coverd by me
and the part I see is the part I comment!

But it's mi opinion and a subt. sugestion!

If he forgot to ask the first time he surely as done
the request after, I do think he haves to treat this
on the private way via PM, and do think he haves to
understand your position but, I do not think it's a reasenable
thing everyone from the team to jump on him beside you as
the Head of the GWX team...

Do not get me the rong way!

I realy think he asn't done it with rong intention!

[Dowly]

I do not think it's a reasenable
thing everyone from the team to jump on him beside you as
the Head of the GWX team...

All for one, one for all, matey. ;)

[TheDarkWraith]

I have to agree with JCWolf. As a Supervisor myself it looks bad on your team or your department if others are lashing out on someone when it's the supervisor's job to do so (and in private!). It's even worse if the supervisor doesn't counsel the subordinate that his behavior was unacceptable and will not be tolerated. Kpt. makes it apparent that he is the 'team leader' for the GWX project and thus the supervisor or dept. head of said project. The actions of leaders ultimately define the image of the product presented and that image isn't very colorful at the moment. I would've expected a different reaction from him (and a private one at that). Just my personal observation. :shifty: Nothing more needs to be said.

[Jimbuna]

What! over already, I can't believe it.. where is all the fun.
I rushed here as fast as I could only to find a frightening looking ferret and some Grey Wolves with a satisfied smile on their lips, drinking beer!
Nice, just Nice.

Move on.......nothing to see here :nope:
Have a :()1: before you go.
Don't go drinking any of that KaustikSoda mind ;)

[Dowly]

Nothing stops OLC to do the new interfaces from scratch. 90% of the new stuff in GWX have been build from scratch.

I know it would take a lot longer, but one cant assume when beginning a new mod that uses other mod as the basis, that it's automatically fine with the other mod's devs. There's always the risk, that the other team doesnt give the permission, which was the case here. And one should acknowledge that risk.

And what comes to the 'all against one' thingy, I have only one thing to say: friends are worth defending.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

<sigh>

...as if I never urge restraint... or as if I 'hand people their opinion.'

No offense, but you guys really are clueless to what goes on in the background and are making too many assumptions. Nor do I need a lecture on how the GWX shop should be run.:shifty:

I do not incite the crew to act... but I may on occasion open the hatch and let them out when the howling gets too loud in the zentraele. I've got no problem fighting my own battles... but when a friend chooses to stand beside me, I'm not going to tell him to bugger off either. These guys have done a truly MASSIVE amount of work for NO PAY and have a vested interest in the outcome of conversations like these. They also have their own thoughts and convictions.

Leave well enough alone people.

We have a saying in Texas... "Mess with the bull and you'll get the horns."

[sorry about the cross-post Dowly... was not directed at you.]

[onelifecrisis]

Hitman, I understand your desire to let the thread die, but I wish to comment on a couple of things and will try to do so in a non-inflammatory way.

Concerning OLC's problem with this decision... it can be viewed as someone that kicks you on one day... and expects someone to be okay with that on the next day. This kind of poop just doesn't float in real life... nor should it on a public forum.

What I expect is that grown men can, on occasion, put aside their differences and politely (if briefly) communicate and co-operate for the common good.

You have no respect.

I think that there is a difference between respect and humility, and it seems to me that some members of the GWX team call for the former and expect the latter.

[JCWolf]

Nothing stops OLC to do the new interfaces from scratch. 90% of the new stuff in GWX have been build from scratch.

I know it would take a lot longer, but one cant assume when beginning a new mod that uses other mod as the basis, that it's automatically fine with the other mod's devs. There's always the risk, that the other team doesnt give the permission, which was the case here. And one should acknowledge that risk.

And what comes to the 'all against one' thingy, I have only one thing to say: friends are worth defending.


Come on!

Do you realy know what does mean,

All for one and One for All ! ???


I am not building a fighting ground here,
thought I'm in trenches most of mi time.:yep:

maybe it's the rong atitude maybe it's called something
else, but for me it is not fair what ever reazon might be in
the back lines to form a warParty or linch group and just
drag a guy over the Plains just cause he made a mistake
driven by is own entusiasm!:hmm:


I do know what means " All for one and One for All !"
and I know most of you know also, but is this guy
worth of such treatment????:hmm:

Do not think so!

[Kpt. Lehmann]

What I expect is that grown men can, on occasion, put aside their differences and politely (if briefly) communicate and co-operate for the common good.

I think that there is a difference between respect and humility, and it seems to me that some members of the GWX team call for the former and expect the latter.

I have no argument with you there. Hell, I was writing up the approval and further suggestions when YOU blew it with your hateful little response.

Respect is given until there is a reason for it to be absent. You have determined the outcome. You're only unhappy because we aren't seeing things the way you see them.

Meh.

[Maraz]

OK so a mod that looked very promising, has been sunk by susceptibility, greed, envy and other bad feelings among modders.

Re-reading all posts, I cannot see what OLC did so badly wrong to be the first one to be denied use of GWX. He did not release anything, and he asked permission (even a bit lately) to use GWX as a basis. From what I can see, I believe his one was an original work and he did not go searching glory using some other's work. I suppose that he used GWX only because it is the most widespread supermod.

Doing this way, one will soon need to be a lawyer, or to hire a lawyer, before starting to mod!!! This is one of the reasons because I decided not to start modding, and it was a wise decision, as far as I can see.

I understand OLC, he looks to be a technical guy and did not care of bureucracy, so he was fired.

I respect the work of the GWX guys, but in this case I am with OLC, FWIW.

Maraz

[Dowly]

OK so a mod that looked very promising, has been sunk by susceptibility, greed, envy and other bad feelings among modders.

3... :shifty:

[JCWolf]

Re-reading all posts, I cannot see what OLC did so badly wrong to be the first one to be denied use of GWX. He did not release anything, and he asked permission (even a bit lately) to use GWX as a basis. From what I can see, I believe his one was an original work and he did not go searching glory using some other's work. I suppose that he used GWX only because it is the most widespread supermod.

Maraz


this is what I am saying here as well,
But I end up mi opinons here and now!

We look like a car brack at the moment,
trying to brack the Modding inovation
is not a good policy as far as I see it!

Mi apologies to the GWX team for having
a diferent opinion on this but it's what I think
and has to be said!:shifty: :hmm:

[TheDarkWraith]

all opinions aside it's time to let this R.I.P. :stare:

[Dowly]

all opinions aside it's time to let this R.I.P. :stare:

:yep: :yep:

http://omglol.kerrolisaa.com/1/203.gif

:up:

RIP:cry:

[Kpt. Lehmann]

No worries Maraz and JCWolf. You are entitled to your opinion.

However, I'll simply point out again that it was onelifecrisis who made the bed that he must lie in. He chose to run his mouth off while I was writing up the approval. Nor was it the first time he chose to be a jerk to us.

What did you guys expect? Do you roll over and cry 'SURRENDER' when someone punches you in the mouth?

I think not.

[TheDarkWraith]

What did you guys expect? Do you roll over and cry 'SURRENDER' when someone punches you in the mouth?


Sometimes what you don't say and what you don't do speak louder than what you could've done or said. ;)

[danlisa]

I will let it die after I say one more thing.;)

... but when a friend chooses to stand beside me, I'm not going to tell him to bugger off either....
After the modding is finished and the GWX team disbands, this statement will remain true.:yep:

GWX is only what it is because we are very close friends and after the final release of GWX, we will remain so, regardless of the sigs we wear.:up:

RIP Thread.:dead:

[JCWolf]

all opinions aside it's time to let this R.I.P. :stare:

:yep: :yep:

http://omglol.kerrolisaa.com/1/203.gif

:up:

RIP:cry:


:nope: :nope: :nope:

I realy respected you a lot!
Do not make me loose it !:nope:

[Dowly]

all opinions aside it's time to let this R.I.P. :stare:

:yep: :yep:

http://omglol.kerrolisaa.com/1/203.gif

:up:

RIP:cry:


:nope: :nope: :nope:

I realy respected you a lot!
Do not make me loose it !:nope:

This was pointed to everyone, not only to RB. My bad.

[drow711]

I'm a long time reader and first time poster, and this is the first time I've ever seen a thread this negative. I have to say I agree with OLC on this one. Yeah he was a bit late asking for permission, but late or not it was done before anything was released so he did nothing wrong. It was Kpt Lehmann with his "I will be handling this by PM. In so doing, it will very likely save you a measure of embarassment." and " Impatience or rudeness, will not help the messenger making said inquiries in the slightest." comments that started this. OLC had no reason to be embarassed, but you implied he should be. I see OLC was suprised he hadn't heard back from the GWX team yet, but that's suprise, not impatience or rudeness. There was no need to add any of that. If your trying to save someone embarassment, you don't post it on a forum. You should have PM'ed him. That's what you wanted him to do, but instead you followed his lead and the whole thing gets aired in public. Two wrongs don't make a right.

I have nothing but the greatest repect for the GWX team as a whole. The time and effort you must have put in to making such an exellcent mod has to be immense. I understand how proud you all are of your work. I also agree that if someone uses you work to build upon, credit should be given. OLC does that. Whatever your past disputes with him were, he DID ask your permission, and he was giving you credit.

As for you OLC, personally I hope you continue to work on this. Start from scratch with 1.4 files and make it work. Then when it's all done you can stand up and wave it around and say it works with everything and you did it without outside help. I'll cheer you on.

Well that's enough for me, I've said my two cents worth. Probably pissed off most, if not all, entire GWX team (which I apologize for) and turned my name in toxic waste. So I am off. No hard feelings to anyone, hopefully in a week we can all be friends again.

[Penelope_Grey]

GWX is only what it is because we are very close friends

Not just friends. 'Family'.:up:

[Friedl9te]

:hmm: Could possibly any admin show mercy and close this thread please.

[Penelope_Grey]

Its funny that... people slate the GWX team for its choices or actions, then come and say "I have the greatest respect for you"

[Dowly]

:hmm: Could possibly any admin show mercy and close this thread please.

Isnt euthanasia illegal.. :hmm: ;)

[TheDarkWraith]

Its funny that... people slate the GWX team for its choices or actions, then come and say "I have the greatest respect for you"

You can have respect yet differing opinions. Why is that so odd?

[Carotio]

Its funny that... people slate the GWX team for its choices or actions, then come and say "I have the greatest respect for you"

You can have respect yet differing opinions. Why is that so odd?

Exactly, what I said on page 4 too:
I think we all can agree that we disagree about this issue!

I have a question for all:
Though no permission has been granted, can't it be that an unexpected mod could do something good for several people, though the original modder don't like the new mod?
As someone else said: should the original modder instead of feeling insulted not feel proud instead that somebody else use his/her work to continue on?

[bigboywooly]

:zzz:

[JCWolf]

Its funny that... people slate the GWX team for its choices or actions, then come and say "I have the greatest respect for you"



:nope:

I just will tell you some check points for you to follow, the way and route
will be up to you!

I know this team since before you're a SS member, and Modded along with them
from then, I find myself curiouse of what exactely are you words and were do
they point and target...

An action can be rong or good , being a GWX team Action it doesn't mean that
it have to be the right one all the time, I have made some bad and good in mi life
and that means I'm not perfect...

Another thing is what I bellieve its a good move or a rushed one...:hmm:

the quick note goes directly to your observation above quoted,
what makes you think that you have the right to say anything
about mi loyalty and words on the GWX Team or any subject that I might
desagree him them!

Do not ever question mi loyalty on the GWX team, because you simply
have no idea, of what we done , spended and have toghether!

Take your nasty remarks on other guys but don't ever dare saying a thing
like this again!:nope:

[Penelope_Grey]

Its funny that... people slate the GWX team for its choices or actions, then come and say "I have the greatest respect for you"


:nope:

I just will tell you some check points for you to follow, the way and route
will be up to you!

I know this team since before you're a SS member, and Modded along with them
from then, I find myself curiouse of what exactely are you words and were do
they point and target...

An action can be rong or good , being a GWX team Action it doesn't mean that
it have to be the right one all the time, I have made some bad and good in mi life
and that means I'm not perfect...

Another thing is what I bellieve its a good move or a rushed one...:hmm:

the quick note goes directly to your observation above quoted,
what makes you think that you have the right to say anything
about mi loyalty and words on the GWX Team or any subject that I might
desagree him them!

Do not ever question mi loyalty on the GWX team, because you simply
have no idea, of what we done , spended and have toghether!

Take your nasty remarks on other guys but don't ever dare saying a thing
like this again!:nope:

No it was not directed at you I was on about that new member with only one post, not you personally, I forgot to quote him... it happens. So for that I'm sorry.

Thinking about it though... and some of your comments, rather than find out what was happening you just bombed in on me assumed Im guilty as sin, shoot first then ask questions later... Fair enough... you can have this rant for free... but this is the only one.

[Jhereg]

Now it looks like everyone is getting ready to explode on each other, everyone take a deep breath and see my post above.

I think the idiocy of forum communications (IE forgot to quote, missing smiley, wrong emoticon, etc) are about to sour many peoples attitudes towards one another without reason.

This is a game we are all passionate about. I hope this forum can continue as a meeting place for people with like interests without all this acrimony.:yep:

[KaustikSoda]

:D
...attack me!

[Jimbuna]

:D
...attack me!

Okay

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/3189/machinegunfa5.gif (http://imageshack.us)

:lol:

[KaustikSoda]

:dead: And that was that.
jimbuna know how to properly end a discussion.

:lol:

[onelifecrisis]

I was writing up the approval and further suggestions when YOU blew it with your hateful little response.

It was Kpt Lehmann with his "I will be handling this by PM. In so doing, it will very likely save you a measure of embarassment." and " Impatience or rudeness, will not help the messenger making said inquiries in the slightest." comments that started this.

Thank you drow711 for posting what I would have posted.

@jcwolf, thank you for you support! However with regards to the matter of me being "ganged up on" it was, in fairness, me who started that fight, with my comment about the GWX team as a whole.

As for my course of action from here, well, by my reckoning the only people who have posted in this thread in support of the GWX team are... the GWX team. However the silent majority remain unheard, and while it is tempting to post a poll to determine what I should do I think that would just inflame things further.

Therefore I will rework the mod based on stock files, and release it as mod which should hopefully be compatible with stock and with any supermod.

Thank you to those who wrote words of encouragement and support and thereby helped me decide to continue work :)

OLC

[dcb]

Therefore I will rework the mod based on stock files, and release it as mod which should hopefully be compatible with stock and with any supermod. Thank you to those who wrote words of encouragement and support and thereby helped me decide to continue work :)

Thank you OLC for your decision and for being able to keep on modding, in spite of adversities.:yep: Modding stock files seems to be the best course of action here. I am looking forward to your future mods.:up:

[nikbear]

For the love of mary,will someone please put a lock on this thread:doh: before we all throw our toys out of the pram;)

[Uber Gruber]

If enduring this sort of high-horsed pompous bullsh!t is a prerequisite for obtaining permission then consider the request withdrawn. Well that made me laugh....

[KaustikSoda]

Great news OLC! :up:

And please, can someone with power ban jimbuna before it's to late. And the whole GWX team too, please.
I'm dead serious.

[nikbear]

Great news OLC! :up:

And please, can someone with power ban jimbuna before it's to late. And the whole GWX team too, please.
I'm dead serious.

That is the post of the DAY:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: It made me spit cider all over my keyboard:lol:

[Jimbuna]

I was writing up the approval and further suggestions when YOU blew it with your hateful little response.

It was Kpt Lehmann with his "I will be handling this by PM. In so doing, it will very likely save you a measure of embarassment." and " Impatience or rudeness, will not help the messenger making said inquiries in the slightest." comments that started this.

Thank you drow711 for posting what I would have posted.

@jcwolf, thank you for you support! However with regards to the matter of me being "ganged up on" it was, in fairness, me who started that fight, with my comment about the GWX team as a whole.

As for my course of action from here, well, by my reckoning the only people who have posted in this thread in support of the GWX team are... the GWX team. However the silent majority remain unheard, and while it is tempting to post a poll to determine what I should do I think that would just inflame things further.

Therefore I will rework the mod based on stock files, and release it as mod which should hopefully be compatible with stock and with any supermod.

Thank you to those who wrote words of encouragement and support and thereby helped me decide to continue work :)

OLC

I applaude your honesty in your remarks to JCWolf :yep:
You are quite correct when you refer to GWX as a 'team' :yep:
Some have been members longer than others, however, all are valued equally regardless of their length of service and as such I think you'll agree that an attack on one is obviously going to be perceived as an attack on all (subject to individual and collective interpretation) :yep:

GWX team members do not ask for nor do they encourage contributors to this great forum to pick or choose sides :nope:

Do not become delusional or place to much emphasis on this so called 'silent majority'. Too often on this forum we have all witnessed whom this 'silent majority' have faith and belief in :yep:

I'm not usually a gambler but I would bet any odds you like how a 'Poll' would deflate your initial argument further.:yep:

The vast majority of members here use/subscribe to GWX for one reason or the other.....all this thread has developed into is a nothing more than a slur on all the hard work of so few for the benefit of so many.

I sincerely wish you well in your modding efforts....but let us not allow this thread to degenirate into something akin to Lazarus rising every other hour :nope:

Regards
Jimbuna

[Hitman]

Since OLC has already decided to move forward and forget about this, and since also Kpt. Lehman (In representation of the GWX guys) agreeded the discussion was finished, the rest of the thread has only served -as usual- as an excuse for the usual ones to show their worst side in public:nope: .

Therefore: Thread closed for public health reasons.