View Full Version : To the British guys in the forum...
mic1184
09-18-07, 09:38 AM
hey, i - as a german - just wanted to say sorry for all that stuff! you know, sinking your ships and the like. I hope you dont hate us anymore (like the french). ;-)
okay, seriously, i was just thinking about that kinda stuff, how you feel as a british playing SH3.
in all other WW2 games that i've been playing (call of duty, medal of honor, company of heroes, etc) the player's role was always the allies side, because they were the "good boys" in the war. i didnt have the feeling i was playing against my home country, as no german would identify her- or himself with the third reich (well, no one reasonable at least, but thats another subject).
i've been playing SH3 for quite a long time now (nearly a year) and today was the FIRST time i thought something was weird. only today (installing Racerboy's flag-and-pennants-mod, seeing the kriegsflagge with the swastica on it) i realised that its the only game in which you solitarily play on the fascist side. i can imagine that this could be a bit weird for esp. you British, isnt it?
maybe i just have a weird day. greetz mic
ReallyDedPoet
09-18-07, 09:46 AM
This topic has been discussed in the past here. As a Canadian ( and under British authority in WWII ) , this country was heavily involved in WWII Atlantic Theatre via the RCN, we played a big role in the Battle of the Atlantic, and I am certainly proud of this countries' contribution.
That being said, SH3 is just a game in the end for me, thus I have no problem being in the SH3 Kriegsmarine.
RDP
Yup, no problem playing SH3 or any other game from the Axis side for this Greek-Canadian. For example, I can play games involving the invasion of Crete from the Axis side as well, it's interesting, fun and educational.
It's a very involved question, and I am not sure I have ever reached a solution which addresses it fully. Oddly enough it feels less uncomfortable playing the roll of a German vessel than it would be if the submarine were a russian one of the same period. I doubt I would if that were that case.
WW2 ended over 60 years ago and is now part of our history and I don't hold anything against the Germans and anyway they fell under the control of a evil party which ended in May 1945. As for the game it's just a game thats all and if anyone who have trouble separating fact from fiction well that's between you and what ever. SH3 is a game which is fun and yet many people have sat down and thought they wanted to learn about the real events of WW2 so thats not a bad idea if the game keeps an interest in history alive.
Vacillator
09-18-07, 10:35 AM
Although I'm British, I've always had a greater interest in the weapons and activities of the German armed forces in WW2 than those of any other nation. Don't ask me why, but it's certainly nothing political. Echoing comments above, to me it's done and dusted, no point holding grudges or judging people for things that happened outside of their control so long ago.
Sailor Steve
09-18-07, 10:40 AM
American here, not British, but the u-boats sank a lot of our ships too, so I get my say:p .
I've always loved the machinery, and I've played tabletop wargames for more than 30 years. When I play airplane games I'll fly any side - German, Japanese, American, British and more. I love the machines, so I try to play with them all.
Same with naval games; be they board, tabletop or computer: It's the ships and their history that I love.
I'd better have that attitude, or Das Boot wouldn't be one of my favorite movies!:rotfl:
skookum
09-18-07, 11:22 AM
Two points here:
1. I'm from Canada. My grandfather commanded HMCS Saint John, a River Class Frigate (K456), and is credited with her only two kills: U-247 September 1st 1944, and U-309 February 16th 1945. As an individual with direct family relationship to the Battle of the Atlantic (well English Channel and North Sea anyways) I almost feel compelled to experience for myself what it was like during that time. I have a new respect for my grandfather (who died well over a decade before I was born) and my father, who himself retired from the Canadian Navy just last year.
2. Though it was a time of war, one of my ancestors was directly responsible for the deaths of nearly one hundred men. The U-Boat Kregsmarine was known as one of the least political units in the German armed forces. And it's hard to think about geopolitical affairs when you're in freezing spray on the bridge of a frigate in February. When I play SH3 I think about these things and it adds a dimension to the game that's difficult to describe.
As far as ethical considerations are concerned, SH3 is only a game (albeit an immersive one). Games hurt no one, and they're fun. End of story.
well to any body with a degree of insight and self honesty the entire subject of "war simulations" is MIGHTY fraught with really quite jarring contradictions..
this is no trivial concern IMO..and not a subject to be brought out briefly dusted off and put away again as rapidly as possible... as it strikes right to heart of well just about everything...the fact the question is so rarely given the time and attention it deserves is an indication of avoidance not respect
if war was unnattractive negative unwelcome ..what the hell are we doing trying to simulate it...let alone congractulate our selves heartliy on just how realisticaly we actualy do this...yet we do...all of us...me included.. time and time over again..sadly just as in real life..eh??
it's pretty darn NUTS when you openly contemplate it..
it's one of the reasons i (as an English person) to answer the point directly..found SH2/3 so fascinating...beacause all the time i was playing the games i couldn't resist the question...
"what the HELL am i doing??"
the answer well it's just a game..simply isn't a satisfying answer to any-one with an inquiring mind...it demands more respect than that..the realy interesting thing about simulations is that they often end up simulating FAR MORE than it states on the side of the box...
there really shouldn't be (and there isn't) an easy answer to all this...the question IS too important
WW2 ended over 60 years ago and is now part of our history and I don't hold anything against the Germans and anyway they fell under the control of a evil party which ended in May 1945. As for the game it's just a game thats all and if anyone who have trouble separating fact from fiction well that's between you and what ever. SH3 is a game which is fun and yet many people have sat down and thought they wanted to learn about the real events of WW2 so thats not a bad idea if the game keeps an interest in history alive.
Well said Steed :yep:
I have never felt bad for playing roman in Age of Empires, and yet the romans crucified or threw to the lions those people they didn't like :huh: . It's a very different example, I know, but anyway the point is: History is history, and we recreate the non-political part of it, the one who is just about naval warfare. SH3, BF42, MOH, IL2 and all those are not games about running concentration camps and competing in gasing more victims, but instead games about the war that german & allied soldiers waged to defend their homes and families. All the nazi crap has nothing to do with them in the way they are :yep:
I remember when I was younger, we went to meet a German family that was in contact with my mother. We stayed with them for 2 weeks but were very confused why the grandfather wouldn't talk with us. As we were preparing to leave, he came out to us, sobbing. He explained in broken English that he thought that we, as English people, would hate him because he'd fought in the Wehrmacht in WWII. He couldn't understand why we were being so nice to him and his family - he had killed British soldiers, possibly my own family members.
We explained to him that members of our family had killed German soldiers and civilians in WWII, just as he had. He then confessed to have belonged to the Nazi party. We asked whether he knew about Hitler's attrocities (you know what I mean). He didn't. He had just followed the crowd and the propaganda and the pressure from the government unquestioningly. He even relayed that he was arrested at the front line and investigated by the Gestapo for his criticism of the SS...
The point is, just because German troops served on the 'wrong' side, it doesn't necessarily mean they were evil people, lesser men or somehow unchivilrous. The majority of German servicemen in WWII were simply fighting for their country, just as soldiers of many other nations were. They killed Englishmen, we killed Germans. The Luftwaffe flattened Coventry. The RAF flattened Dresden. U-boats sank ships. Ships sank u-boats. It was war.
Aside from those directly involved in Hitler's attrocities (the leadership, the SS and members of the Gestapo etc.) I do not feel any hatred for Germany. For the most part, the average German suffered just as much as the average Englishman.
As for playing SH3, I feel that we should all experience the realities of war. I do think that it's poigniant that upon being sunk, the game returns direct to the 'death' screen. This makes it very clear how suddenly u-boat crew's lives were extinguished. This reminds me: 'If this was real, I would have just died...'
I always remember a quote in a Guestbook at Auschwitz: "If we forget the suffering of those [in the past], we must suffer again ourselves before we remember. We must remember..."
Packerton
09-18-07, 12:41 PM
I too am a Canaidian whos Grandfather served in the Battle of the Atlantic, but i remember its just a game :up:
papa_smurf
09-18-07, 01:38 PM
As a Brit, im not at all bothered playing as a German U-boat commander. Im more interested in the history/technological achievements of that period, rather than political situation of that time.
Also im rather glad to play as a German, as most war sim games i've played heavily lean towards the allies. So I find this game a breath of fresh air, as it gives you a different perspective on WW2
I'm Polish, my family was involved in every war in Europe since Napoleon. For example my grand grand father fought against Japanees in 1905 as a Russian soldier. I'm active military officer as family tradition dictates. Many members of my family were killed fighting for freedom of Poland, Russia, Austria, Germany and Great Britain, their graves are scattered all over the Europe. Truely amazing and hard to uderstand but they fought for Poland, Russsia, Austria, Great Britain and many others. They fought in Asia, Europe and North Africa. It was result of Polish,let's say, complicated history. Poles had its gloriest victories and sad defeets. But one major truth and the most important thing, generation by generation is repeted in my family - great sens of duty to the motherland for the price of your life and devotion to those who arm in arm with you share their blood fighting for the same cause.
In my life I had an opportunity to meet many great people from all over the world. My family,due to it's history, lives in many countries.
SH 3 is only the game that reminds us the past - one of the most terrible moments in Europe - our - history .... and let's hope that this past will never knock on our door again.
I'm not English, I'm Polish, but I think I have moral right to say something in this thread (maybe bigger than other Allies). 2ndWW started when Germany invaded Poland 1st September 1939, yesterday (17.09.) was anniversary of Russian attack on Poland in 1939 (many people in the West don't know that Soviet Union was the best ally of Germany up to 22 June 1941). It was many years ago. Many millions Polish died during 2ndWW, killed by Germans and Russians. My grandfathers were POW in Germany (they escaped and safely returned to home), big part of my family was deported by Soviets to Siberia, some of them died there. It's history and we must remember that. But we can't say that all Germans and all Russians were bad. Not all Germans were nazis and not all Russians were communists.
Now we have XXI age, live all over the world and we all are the same people. I don't hate you or don't like you only for this reason you are German. The hate produces conflicts, from conflict is straight road to war. You are my friend from Subsim.com forum, we both play SH3/GWX and have the same hobby. Cheers.
capt-jones
09-18-07, 02:01 PM
vacallitor wrote
Although I'm British, I've always had a greater interest in the weapons and activities of the German armed forces in WW2 than those of any other nation. Don't ask me why, but it's certainly nothing political. Echoing comments above, to me it's done and dusted, no point holding grudges or judging people for things that happened outside of their control so long ago.
i read ww2 war comics and had ww2 airfix models when i was a kid ,but i always preferred german equipment over our brittish stuff e.g. jack boots ,helmuts ,sub machine guns,tiger and panzer tanks ,u-boats, me 109 me 262 they always fasinated me, and i never ever give a thought about ,hitler or his cronies,
BTW two of my uncles fought for the royal navy on distroyers and subs ,and the wifes father was a soldier in dunkirk , burma ,they never ever said they hated thier enemies ,i even think they had a mutual respect for each other ? and both our great grand fathers died in the great war R.I.P.this is just a game and a very good one at that , although id hate too think what damage those modern wepons can do now
danlisa
09-18-07, 02:04 PM
First! I don't believe anyone has said this yet.
@ mic1184
You have absolutely NOTHING to appologise for. Following generations always pay the price for their forefathers actions. Also, look at it this way. The government of any country can decide to wage war without the concensus of the public once they are in power. While many did agree with the Nazi parties beliefs, I suspect equally as many did not. End Of. It's over, it's history.:up:
As for the question. As many have said, it's just a game and while the attraction of the UBoat war is strong it never crosses my mind as to whether what I am doing is patriotic or not.
So, carry on and sink them all.:arrgh!:
Im a brit and I have no problem playing SH3, It more interesting to hear how German feel playing the many WW2 shooters, Call of Duty Medal oh honour, honesly when i picked up SH3 i thought how refreshing to be bowling for the other side for a change :lol:
Dont see it a good vs bad though - the world is NEVER that black and white, nowadays they tell us the bad guys are the terrorists, and they must be stopped - well yes they do need to be stopped, but isnt it funny how hardly anyone wants to talk about just why we have them in the first place - Typical!
I think for me there are two reasons why I dont mind sinking my own ..
A game is a game, even if like SH3 its based on real world events, I dont care what I do in a game as it has no bearing on how I act or behave in reality I play games to experience acting/playing out scenarios that I never can or will carry out in reality - thats the beauty of them. I wont let my own morals and values get in the way.
From a political point of view i find it hard to think of myself as 'British' Britain is ok Its just another county with some nice things and some nasty.
I dont really like making associations with my nationallity, I HATE too much national pride from anyone, its dangerous (even deadly), on there own most people are usually fine and rational minded, its when they get in to their gangs and start waving their bloody flags around that really bad things start to happen - as they stop thinking for them selves and go in to sheep mode.. :nope: It makes me lose hope in the human race.
Dont know why human nature always compelles us to join or feel apart of something big! What the hell is wrong with just being an indervidual?
As a German you should not appologies to me or anyone, you are not your country - you are you and I will judge you on that and that alone.
Britian has commited its fair share of Global attrocities too, I dont appologies for them because i had nothing to do with them whatsoever.
How on earth can we each be held responsible for our Governments actions over 60 years ago?
I am sorry for ALL those who lost their lives in WW2, Its a period of history that genuinly interests me but boy, im really glad I wasnt there to be apart of it! If you put me in a real Uboat while its getting a kicking from live depth charges - i would piss myelf and faint and Im not afraid to admit it.
OK, sorry for sounding dumb,
but I'd play as any nationality if there is a subsim that's as great as SH3.
StarFox
09-18-07, 03:20 PM
ITS A GAME
just because you play on the German Side, dosent make you a Nazi
that goes for every WWII game, not just Silent Hunter
OK, sorry for sounding dumb,
but I'd play as any nationality if there is a subsim that's as great as SH3.
I dont think that sound dumb at all, in fact I think you put it better than anybody else :p
:rock: :rock:
thefretmaster
09-18-07, 04:26 PM
I have been learning german for 5 years and i must say i loved it! if i do venture to germany one day i should do ok language wise :lol:
i have no problem playing as germans in ww2 themed games. anyone thaught of blitzkrieg the game?
also in the uk i dont think anyone has hard feelings for the germans, if they do they are most probably ignorant people who dont really understand why things happened. my home town of Filton is twinned with a german town Witzenhausen, also with a french one but i cant remember its name ;) plus the amount of people driving mercedes, bmw's, audi's and vw's, they cant say anything about your country.
afterall its a simulation game and it really does not bother me, most of the time you are so immersed anyway, you barely notice!
ciao
tfm
The Munster
09-18-07, 04:40 PM
I have been learning german for 5 years and i must say i loved it! if i do venture to germany one day i should do ok language wise :lol:
i have no problem playing as germans in ww2 themed games. anyone thaught of blitzkrieg the game?
also in the uk i dont think anyone has hard feelings for the germans, if they do they are most probably ignorant people who dont really understand why things happened. my home town of Filton is twinned with a german town Witzenhausen, also with a french one but i cant remember its name ;) plus the amount of people driving mercedes, bmw's, audi's and vw's, they cant say anything about your country.
afterall its a simulation game and it really does not bother me, most of the time you are so immersed anyway, you barely notice!
ciao
tfm
If you ever get to Germany, visit Hameln, it is a beautiful City [in the North near Minden & Hamburg]. Most people speak English here and the hospitality you receive from shops etc. is second to none. :up:
Jimbuna
09-18-07, 04:44 PM
You've absolutely nothing to apologise for my friend :nope:
This is just a game, as simple as that :yep: ....and that's coming from someone whose father (84 year old and still alive) served in The British Merchant Navy during those terrible times :up:
May I offer (in a humorous and by way of a cordial and respectful way) say....we apologise for sinking so many of your U-boats ;) :up:
On a more serious note.....let us hope neither of our countries ever forget the high price that was paid by so many of our brave men in that era. :yep:
Respects and best wishes :up:
thefretmaster
09-18-07, 04:48 PM
On a more serious note.....let us hope neither of our countries ever forget the high price that was paid by so many of our brave men in that era. :yep:
well said
Kapitan_Phillips
09-18-07, 05:20 PM
SH3 actually got me really interested in the German side of the Atlantic campaign, and hey, the German grunt went through the same hell ours did.
Hakahura
09-18-07, 07:04 PM
I'm British and have no problem playing for the "wrong team".
I play for the challenge, not to pretend I'm German.
Mush Martin
09-18-07, 07:17 PM
I can make My u boat part of the RN or RCN if I Feel like it.
To me ordinary people do most of the fighting and dying in war.
The social upsweep of the times in your country were extrodinary
and people were desperate at first and scared after that in some
measure I believe. Yes the Regime was uhm extreme. but to watch
film of the July 1939 arts festival in Munich is most astounding for
just how ordinary everything seems.
To me and my mind we should remember our kameraden.
but the game is just a game and Im a subdriver with a passion
for pre atomic boats. I will take any game in town with merit and
twist it into what I want it to be. I am a modder after all, so ideology
kind of goes by the wayside.
:|\\M
joegrundman
09-18-07, 11:11 PM
Besides, the more interesting question is how do you as a German feel playing this game?
onelifecrisis
09-19-07, 01:50 AM
I think it's great to finally get to play the other side in a WW2 game! ;)
Seriously speaking: from my point of view, we're all human. :yep:
And that's the role I'm playing: a human fighting in WW2.
Kodaita
09-19-07, 08:43 AM
Most of my family still lives in England. My great uncle served on the HMS Easton during the war. One of the Hunt class I think. He was over visiting us a few months ago and saw this game, didn't seem to bother him in the least. Said it was kinda interesting seeing thing from the other side. Though he got a huge thrill out of watching the convoy escorts plaster me with DC. Never had someone stand behind me and root for me to be sunk before :D
GlobalExplorer
09-19-07, 10:47 AM
Yeah, playing these games together with the former enemies is great .. makes you wonder what would have happened if they had been around earlier for Adolf and Winston to play.
thefretmaster
09-19-07, 11:33 AM
haha, "we will fight them in the skies, we will fight them on the beaches, we will beat them at Silent hunter!"
:rotfl:
we will fight them in the skies, we will fight them on the beaches, we will beat them at Silent hunter!
LOL :rotfl: :rock:
That was so good I'm even thinking about changing my signature for it :arrgh!:
thefretmaster
09-19-07, 12:07 PM
lol, feel free. :arrgh!: apparantly in england its national speak like a pirate day today :D (sorry totally off topic)
bigboywooly
09-19-07, 04:03 PM
Bothers me none
I dont think of it as anything more than a game
I have a great respect for veterans from all countries. After any war all that's left are victims and veterans. I've always been fascinated by military history, tactics and the machinery, so SHIII is ideal for me no matter whose boat it is. I talk to every WWII vet I meet, and soak up every word like a sponge and don't care where they're from.
Fenris_Wolf
09-19-07, 09:41 PM
Very happy to read this thread and cannot agree more. However, I sincerely wish that more game developers (and movie makers too while I'm at it) would also share the same thought as we do. To keep it historically accurate, and not use games as a propaganda vehicle with fiction and modern ideas added to it that didn't even exist in that time. I feel it's bad for the younger people to grow up with a, dare I say, "programmed" and false impression of things past. I stay away from politics or anything that smells of it. That's one reason I have come to enjoy simulations, or games set in a fantasy environment, being able to have freedom of choice and the option to play as "the bad guys", something extremely rare.
I've played many good games in my life and recently I got a new game about WW2 which had the events of the Omaha beach landing as it's first campaign. Now, I've seen this in movies and other games over and over. Used all the same equipment so many times that it's not fun anymore, even with all the technologically advanced graphics. The same dialogues ("Get to the shingllllle!"), heck even voices, seem to be repititive through them. This is, in my humble opinion, terribly boring. I couldn't find it in me to continue playing the game so I gave it to my nephew. That's all. :88)
I may be totally wrong about this, but I assure you that I write it with a good and sincere intention. This might be another reason why people from USA and UK would not mind playing a great game that, if exposed to the politicians, might pose problems for the developers and/or the gaming industry. :rotfl:
HunterICX
09-20-07, 06:12 AM
I dont see harm in WW2 games,
I actually am one of those buggers that like to play as a german,
as I have a special interest in their strategics, machinery, technology and the fact that they lost the war to see if YOU can do it differently, still I havent won any games till the end of the war as the allied forces really pounded my butt back to berlin.
especially in the RTS games I own of WW2
I like to see if I can make any changes. especially the Old Panzer general game, damn till 1943 it was going so well, but then the table turns and darn, its get hard!
you barrely succeed or lose the battle. especially my biggest humiliation is in the second battle of bulge, I can hold the USA army's off for a while till patton arives...then I crap my pants and see everything I have been blown to bits
but about sinking , killing the other side, well you're not killing a Brit, you've just destroyed/killed/sunk some Codes, digits and models/textures. nothing to feel sorry about , its part of the game.;)
HunterICX
Well I do play Silent Hunter, and this, "it's only a game" kinda nags at me a bit. Just suppose you had a game where you were a moslem and you had to drive car bombs to restaraunts and kidergartens. Would you play it? (assuming you're a non moslem).
It's complex but wars (I think) are different to the individual actions that make them up. Also I agree with the statements that the majority of Germans did not know what was going on. My grandfather fought in WWII and the germans were amongst his favourite people.
Oh well another sleepless night with my conscience, Theme Concentration Camp anyone?...sorry probably not very funny.
Kodaita
09-20-07, 02:22 PM
I think I see what you mean Kurtz. I think one thing that helps is that so much time has passed. Imagine if WWII had just happened 5-10 years ago and most of us had fought in it. Would that make us feel different about this game. Might be an interesting topic there:hmm:
As for the muslim/moslem (not sure if one is right or both are) comment. I play Battlefield 2 quite a bit. Even being an american, I've no problem playing as the MEC (Middle East Coalition) and taking out the masses of american troopers who happen to wander into the sights of my sniper rifle. Yes it's a bit different from the "car bombs to restaraunts and kindergartens" that you mention. But then I am not doing anything like that in SH3 either. The game is 100% military. If the game had my crew spending their off time working at a death camp or something then I'd feel different.
Anyways, just my thoughts. And a quick hello to everyone here on the forums. Been reading them for a long time but just started posting yesterday.
thefretmaster
09-20-07, 03:59 PM
welcome! nice post too, sums things up nicely :up:
mic1184
09-21-07, 07:21 AM
hey all, i have been away for a couple days and im really surprised how many reactions my post got.
first of all i want to say, that my "apology" was meant rather the ;) way, i dont really feel guilty for anything, and - as has been stated before in a good post - no one should feel guilty for anything he or she has nothing more to do with than nationality.
Although i am very happy for the positive response, not because it was necessary to salve my consciences, but because i believe it's a good and even necessary thing just to become aware and think about that kind of stuff.
the day we forget such things or remark it with "it's long time over so why think about it", is the day the seed for intolerance and misunderstandings is sown. It's good to hear that many of us - a generation that really has nothing to do with the war anymore - still have an opinion about it.
most of the posts in this thread are very good and reflect an intelligent average SH3 player. thats really cool. i guess the no-go-behavior guys are rather to be found in a wolfenstein forum ;-)
Besides, the more interesting question is how do you as a German feel playing this game?
yeah, the reason for my initial post. although i really dont feel personally guilty for what happened these days, it just felt a bit weird that day, playing SH3.
the trigger was of course the swastica on the kriegsflagge, which (dont know whether its known outside of germany) is illegal to show or use in Germany for reasons that are not clearly educational (e.g. in the movie "das boot" - which is a german production - the kriegsflagge on the port-leaving U-96 is always hanging straight down so you CANT see the swastica, although its windy in that scene).
anyway, it just started a whole series of thoughts. am i being a nazi now, because i love playing that game so much? would i also like to play as a british submarine commander? one reason i dont like SH4 is because the pacific war doesnt interest me so much... damn.
of course i know i am not a nazi, and there is nothing bad about playing SH3. though i uninstalled the kriegsflagge mod (its really good RB, no offense to you) because i felt weird. the reason isnt suppressing my home country's history, its rathre because i wouldnt like my girlfriend or my friends seeing a swastica in my beloved game thats always on. because i dont know how they would react. its just easier not to have it.
kinda is a form of suppression, hm?
Well I do play Silent Hunter, and this, "it's only a game" kinda nags at me a bit. Just suppose you had a game where you were a moslem and you had to drive car bombs to restaraunts and kidergartens. Would you play it? (assuming you're a non moslem).
It's complex but wars (I think) are different to the individual actions that make them up. Also I agree with the statements that the majority of Germans did not know what was going on. My grandfather fought in WWII and the germans were amongst his favourite people.
Oh well another sleepless night with my conscience, Theme Concentration Camp anyone?...sorry probably not very funny.
yep, thats exactly what i think. for me its not just a game. it's also a kind of very vivid history book (especially thanks to our great modders who made the game as authentic as it is now). or would you play a game in which you basicly do nothing all the time, use 1024 time compression sometimes because nothing happens, where you submerge every hundred miles just to hear - nothing.
i dont believe i would love Silent Hunter so much if i knew it was all fictional. I'm sure that most Silent Hunter fans dont just play silent hunter, they also read books, watch movies and are in a way fascinated by the u-boat war. it is really complex and it has absolutely nothing to do with nazi stuff. as has also been said before in this thread, the u-boat weapon was the most unpolitical and often even anti-national socialst part of the wehrmacht (e.g. Kusch sentenced to death for removing hitler portrait from his u-boat and stuff like that, Teddy Suhren's famous quote "are the nazis still at the rudder" etc).
we cant get to a conclusion to all of this, it really is too complex. for some of us it's "just a game", for others its also a bit of interesting history, and others even get to think a lot about that stuff through the game.
i guess this is just another reason why SH3 is such a valuable game for all of us :-)
Redbear
09-24-07, 10:20 AM
I'm an American whose family members fought in WWII as well. I don't think you can condem an entire nation's population for it's leadership. Both the allied and axis side had honorable people who fought bravely for their country. Both sides also did some less than honorable things. Not to say that I want to debate who was 'worse', since that's really not the point, and it's a meaningless discussion. The point is that I can appreciate the dedication of the average German soldier fighting for his country just as I can the Americans, British, etc. SH3 is a game and it honors the courage of both sides. As far as being just 'from the German side', heck, I've gotten sunk enough in my U-Boat to make any allied fan proud!
Skyhawk
09-24-07, 10:38 AM
I'm an American whose family members fought in WWII as well. I don't think you can condem an entire nation's population for it's leadership. Both the allied and axis side had honorable people who fought bravely for their country. Both sides also did some less than honorable things. Not to say that I want to debate who was 'worse', since that's really not the point, and it's a meaningless discussion. The point is that I can appreciate the dedication of the average German soldier fighting for his country just as I can the Americans, British, etc. SH3 is a game and it honors the courage of both sides. As far as being just 'from the German side', heck, I've gotten sunk enough in my U-Boat to make any allied fan proud!
Couldn't agree with you more. :yep: :up:
Further, I think the original topic is moot (no disrespect to the OP). It just seems illogical to me that gamers from the "Allied" side of the house who might be sensitive playing SH3 would in fact buy and continue playing it if it bothered them to a substantial degree.
Didn't say it wasn't an interesting question, didn't disrespect this discussion in anyway or those who have participated in it. Simply stated that IMHO the original question is moot. :yep:
Melonfish
09-26-07, 07:33 AM
i've been playing SH3 for quite a long time now (nearly a year) and today was the FIRST time i thought something was weird. only today (installing Racerboy's flag-and-pennants-mod, seeing the kriegsflagge with the swastica on it) i realised that its the only game in which you solitarily play on the fascist side. i can imagine that this could be a bit weird for esp. you British, isnt it?
Actually i'd prefer more games from the German side, seriously the german army, navy and airforce of the time were THE best at what they did, they were the most innovative and motivated and technically advanced.
i'm quite honestly fed up of playing games where the victorious americans/british/allies storm accross german front lines wasting the "evil" nazi soldiers... i mean wtf? anyone seen the new medal of honour? whats with the red eyed gas masked guys? don't even get me started on wolfenstein....
i mean why the hell can't i shoot me some yanks for a change? what about that there british navy and its so called might ;) or those pesky desert rats eh?
as its been said WWII was 60 years ago and people are leaving predjudice behind we can all gather and learn from the information and understand what happened without holding grudges and i'll admit its more recent but its a change for the good.
i mean i play tabletop wargames as german forces. they're just kewler then anyone else! rolling my panzers accross the desert trying to take out those dug in defenders at tobruk! grrr! hehe
as for flags, well i prefer them to be accurate it irks me if they're not.
Jimbuna
09-26-07, 09:39 AM
I'm not disagreeing with the initial fundamental point you raise about it being good to be able to play the German side. After all, that is what we all do when we play SH3.
However, what you state in the second part of your first paragraph is certainly not true in every aspect.
Your comments are simply a personal assertion and certainly open to individual opinion and belief.
As good as their army, navy and airforce were at the time, I am sure many people here can give clear examples of where they came out 'second best'.
You must take into account the fact that they were prepared in advance for what their armed forces were about to embark upon.
From a British perspective I would say it wasn't probably until El Alemein that their army first tasted defeat.
The Kriegsmarine....rarely left port.
The Ubootwaffe....never sank more than 3% of Allied shipping.
The Luftwaffe.....failed miserably in what is commonly known as The Battle of Britain.
As for innovation........the Allies found the means to transport many millions of tons of war materials around the world and carry on and make do despite huge shortfalls in raw materials that would normally have come from areas of the world lost very early on in the war.
Technology is debatable, but I would offer as two early war years examples....radar and asdic/sonar.
This could develop into a long thread. ;)
Bismarck
09-26-07, 10:31 AM
I would really like an FPS where you play as the Germans. Germany had the better tanks and ships while America had mass production.
I reall get sick of seeing Shermans everywhere. Wheres the British?
Melonfish
09-26-07, 10:55 AM
some guys were working on a german front mod for cod then cod2 unfortunatly it died a death. the demo for the first one was ace tho. you made a fighting withdrawl off the bluff in normandy.
pete
i mean why the hell can't i shoot me some yanks for a change?
Maybe we should petition for a realistic Gulf War 1991 simulation/game? Then you can play as Americans and kill Brits! :lol:
(The UK lost more troops to American 'friendly fire' in Iraq/Saudi Arabia/Kuwait in 1991 than to Iraqi fire...)
thefretmaster
09-26-07, 11:13 AM
anyone play enemy territory?
you can be american or german
not realistic tho
Bismarck
09-26-07, 11:50 AM
I play it. Joined a clan etc etc. Only specialists used the K43...
Steel_Tomb
09-26-07, 03:47 PM
For me its nice to be playing "as the bad guys", I can imagine how bad it must of been for us brits in the merchant fleet or the RN during the war, especailly during the "happy times"...but for me its nice to see the war from a different perspective...the terror that sets in when you hear the first pings from a Black Swan DD in your VIIC really brings home what it must have been like for those men (and boys towards the end of the war) who volunteered for U-Boat service. The other day I sank a large modern tanker with one eel and when she broke in two and sank in about 30 seconds I shouted "yeah!" etc etc, my parents wondered what I was so happy about. But anyway, enough of my random ranting....
The war is something that should never be forgotten, as its a time in our history which shows the failings of man kind in brutal detail...but I hold no bad feelings towards Germany etc...the troops were doing what they were supposed to do, just like the armed forces of any nation do (apart from the SS who were just murders, not soldiers). However I dispise those "neo-nazi's"...how anyone can follow such a deluded ideology in these times!
vBulletin® v3.8.11, Copyright ©2000-2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.