Is this just Vista, or what?

[mcarlsonus]

I've been forced into downloading and extracting mods one file at a time. I have Vista Home Premium and JSGME has been installed - and I used administrator rights to get it to generate the appropriate "MODS" and "BACKUP" folders. HOWEVER, when I attempt to extract mods I've downloaded into either the "MODS" folder, or another folder I've created, it gives me an error along the lines of "Can't extract to C:\SH4...\MODS..." I end up having to extract to Desktop instead, and then manually overwrite the existing files in SH4 (not a great idea, to be sure!)
What am I doing wrong?

System: 2G, AMDx2 4600+, XFX 7600GT, 320G SATA-7200

[EAGLE_01]

I've been forced into downloading and extracting mods one file at a time. I have Vista Home Premium and JSGME has been installed - and I used administrator rights to get it to generate the appropriate "MODS" and "BACKUP" folders. HOWEVER, when I attempt to extract mods I've downloaded into either the "MODS" folder, or another folder I've created, it gives me an error along the lines of "Can't extract to C:\SH4...\MODS..." I end up having to extract to Desktop instead, and then manually overwrite the existing files in SH4 (not a great idea, to be sure!)
What am I doing wrong?

System: 2G, AMDx2 4600+, XFX 7600GT, 320G SATA-7200

Vista is secured against changes being made to files in an attempt to fight hackers. AFAIK. You need to right click Proram Files,>properties>Security, and either add your name to the accepted list or make sure all permissions are checked for your name. Then you can modify stuff in that folder. It will apply that setting to all files in the Program Files folder, so it will take a minute...Go get something to drink, as Ducimus said...:up:

[skwasjer]

Ehm, don't ever modify permissions of system folders (Program Files, Users, Windows, etc)... You'll only make your system vulnerable/unstable. Either install the program you have problems with to another non-system drive, or change permissions only on a file-by-file or folder-by-folder bases where required, but not the entire parent folders :shifty:

Games should never be installed to Program Files or even a system drive anyway.

In your case, only the MODS folder would do...

[bsalyers]

I believe it is Vista. I downloaded JSGME and ran the installer as admin. Everything went fine until I tried to install my mods. Thanks to Vista's "compatibility files" feature (whatever the heck THAT is), Vista won't even let you really unzip the files to your MODS folder; instead, they end up in some "virtual space" where they can't "hurt" you. JSGME won't even SEE them. And before I get the harsh "maybe you're just an idiot" responses, I'm running JSGME in compatibility mode for XP SP 2, with administrative privileges, per Jones' readme. I also checked the directory structure of my mods and they are fine.
If anyone else has encountered this and has an answer, I'd be very grateful.

[Capt. Shark Bait]

yanno, there is another solution. go back to XPSP2

[longam]

Or just turn off UAC, it is a pain.

[Archie]

I run vista ultimate with UAC disabled, no problems at all.

[skwasjer]

Ditto, again, a bad suggestion... You may try if it fixes it, but I doubt it and I recommend leaving it on. About the problem, can't help out though because I don't play SH/use JSGME.

There are some things you could check though:
- use a 3rd party (un)zip tool (WinRAR, 7zip) to unpack archives. Unpacking to Program Files is a problem under regular user account, see below.
- verify folder permissions of <SH4>\Data. Make sure you have read/write access.
- install onto non-system drive preferred (both game and JSGME). The game its default install location (<Program Files>) on Vista is protected against writes. Because JSGME is writing/moving files around it will fail if run under a regular user account. Installing the game onto another drive or at least not in <Program Files> should fix this.
- try running JSGME in XP2 compat mode
- try running JSGME with 'admin' permissions

Note that these are individual suggestions. One may work, or some combined. I don't know.

Again:
- In no way should you change/replace folder permissions on system folders. Ever!
- Don't change your entire account to 'Admin', instead use 'Run As Administrator'
- Leave UAC on.

If it still doesn't work, you may try contacting JScones. Maybe he has some hints.

Hope this helps...

[bsalyers]

I've emailed JScones. We'll see if he can/will shed light. I, too, am a consultant, and I can't jump on the band wagon of all those who decry disabling of Vista's "protect-me-from-myself" user crippling. Is it a bad idea to disable UAC? Probably. Is usability the first concern any OS maker should have? Definitely. I want, first and foremost, to be able to use my programs. Beyond that, I'll decide how to protect my machine, thank you very much. Any OS that "protects" me from my mods by making them unusable will ultimately not work for me.

[theluckyone17]

Try reinstalling SH4 to a different directory... like "C:\SH4", "C:\Silent Hunter IV", or even "C:\Games\Silent Hunter IV".

Just get it out of under the "Program Files" directory, and then Vista will stop playing games with the permissions, and redirecting changed files to the "compatibility files" link.

[bsalyers]

You're right, Theluckyone17, I should do that, and it would work; however...
it pisses me off that the Program Files folder is locked. That's where programs belong - including games. Even ones that have to be modified. If you're gonna have a folder called "Programs", then I, for one, believe programs should live there. I like an orderly computer, and I like to keep things where they belong.
Instead, I've chosen the inelegant solution of skipping JSGME and installing my mod files directly to the Data folder. So there's no going back. It's a pain in the @ss, but it makes my mods work and lets me keep my programs where they should be.
I think there should be a bettter answer for running SH4 mods under Vista and I hope it turns up soon.
Thanks for your reply.

[theluckyone17]

Not a problem... I think I reinstalled SH4 about five times in the midst of playing with JSGME and various mods, 'til that particular solution hit me in the head. I agree with you completely... this "feature" of Vista is doing nothing more than irritating us, in it's current form. IT would've been nice if MS had fully implemented a "versioning" feature, where overwritten files located under "Program Files" would've been moved to a "Compatibility location", and organized appropriately... in case we wanted to revert back to a previous version of a specific file. 'Course, then we'd be wondering why our hard drives are all clogged up, after these huge data files get packed away for versioning history... *sigh*. I'd settle for MS simply providing a toggle switch for the darn thing.

I understand about the desire for neatness... unfortunately, I deal way too much with Linux, who's general file system structure makes a lot of sense to me. Better than Windows, at least... and as a result, I just give in.

[Seadogs]

Well I believe the new system has it's uses, but C:/Program files is no longer a good place to put your games. As far as bieng orderly, I just created a C:/Games Directory and that was that. Hopefully they will have the sense to reflect something like this in future installer aps.

[JScones]

To save me re-typing... http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=638112&postcount=5 ;)

[bsalyers]

OK. Well, now everyone including JScones himself has told me not to install my program to the Programs folder. I get it; don't fight city hall.

What I don't get is this: when I manually overwrote my Data files inside my SH4 program folder with the mods' data, it worked. My game got modded. I started SH4, there was Trigger Maru and Captain Midnight's Silent Service Graphics mods, working perfectly.

Why does it work when I do it manually, but not when I use JSGME? If I can write files to the Ubisoft folder, shouldn't there be a way to allow JSGME to do it?

[JScones]

OK. Well, now everyone including JScones himself has told me not to install my program to the Programs folder. I get it; don't fight city hall.

What I don't get is this: when I manually overwrote my Data files inside my SH4 program folder with the mods' data, it worked. My game got modded. I started SH4, there was Trigger Maru and Captain Midnight's Silent Service Graphics mods, working perfectly.

Why does it work when I do it manually, but not when I use JSGME? If I can write files to the Ubisoft folder, shouldn't there be a way to allow JSGME to do it?
Firstly, you seem to be getting two separate sets of permission confused.

Elevating permission for JSGME does no more than give *it* permission to modify/add/remove files in your Program Files folder. You have done this, and by virtue of the fact that a MODS folder was created, it has worked; JSGME is now a happy camper and is allowed to modify any file in Program Files.

HOWEVER if you subsequently try to extract a mod directly into the MODS folder, Vista's UAC will kick in again because a *different* process is attempting to modify Program Files (ie NOT JSGME - it's most likely not even open at this stage - this time it's 7-zip or whatever your extraction program is). In this case, you need to elevate the permission of your extraction program in much the same way that you elevated permission in JSGME. Or, alternatively, you can extract the mod *outside* of Program Files and drag into the MODS folder. As *you* are doing this, Vista will allow it to occur. The difference is *you* are doing it, not some system invoked tool, which doesn't appear to have the appropriate permission anyway.

Hope this is clear - let me know if not. UAC and File Virtualization can be quite confusing!

[bsalyers]

Ah, that makes sense, I'm beginning to get it. So, if I'm understanding you, by executing my decompression utility (in this case, as you rightly guessed, 7Zip) with elevated privileges, the files would actually GO where I tell them to go, rather than pretending to go there? That's logical. However, before I gave up and just threw the files in the program's folders, the last thing I tried was extracting the files to my desktop and manually dragging them into the MODS folder. It seemed to work; the mods showed up and JSGME saw them. I enabled them in the correct order and that took about as much time as it should have. But when I started the game - nothing. It was a pristine, vanilla version, completely unmodded.
Bewildering.

[longam]

I have researched the issue with UAC and find controversy on both sides (imagine that). The one thing I find most interesting were some documents arguing the very fact that an MS employee says it’s not really a security tool?

Oh well the debate shall go one forever as most do but one interesting find I made was a way to elevate admin permissions without prompt, as a matter of fact there are a few interesting settings in there to play with for UAC. Of course there is a draw back that you must have Vista Business or higher I believe.

http://www.downbelow.net/sh4/uac1.jpg

This setting is interesting

http://www.downbelow.net/sh4/uac2.jpg

Some day I’m sure if its not certified it won’t install.

http://www.downbelow.net/sh4/uac3.jpg


Article Link

http://www.downbelow.net/uac_nonag.htm