GWX 1.04 Developmental Sneak Peak Part 5

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Well, its been awhile since I've posted one of these and honestly, I've been dreading this one.

I'm going to talk (a little) about some things that will NOT be in GWX version 1.04... or that you may not like... and give everybody a head start on complaining about it.:p

Longer repair times:
The LRT mod that many are familiar with, will not be included in GWX. Not only does it break the crew qualifcation system and play havoc with sensor employment in SH3/GWX, but it also puts at risk our tried and tested player U-boat damage model. Though the currently available LRT mod(s) might possibly be adapted to work with GWX, there are a great many hidden side effects that I think people just don't understand in relation to its interaction with GWX files. Repair times in GWX are already slightly lengthened over stock... and this is in line with research that indicates long/lengthy repairs couldn't really be done at sea. (as in the movie Das Boot)
What I find is that there is basically three kinds of damage that was sustained by U-boats in combat.
1) Catastrophic damage- U-boat lost.
2) Major damage- U-boat must return to base to repair, unable to continue mission.
3) Minor damage usually requiring little sustained action by the crew, mission continues.
The LRT mods modify elements of the player damage model that are very risky to mess with... ie: "water weight." I don't think that any of you would like to spend ages trying to pump out the water at periscope depth... only to crush at periscope depth. Further example: 32 hours to repair batteries...
I realize that for some this mod is a "must have" for "immersion" and their personal enjoyment... and more power to them. However, we will not risk such an important change to the final release of GWX.
Finally, the individual who designed the LRT mods is the only real expert on adjusting it... and he has left the community. At any rate, even if he returned today... the time and work involved to build and test an agreeable version would be prohibitive.

The "Stay Alert Crew" mods:
We also exhaustively tested the "Stay Alert" crew mods that are intended to increase player visual and hydrophone sensor accuity... and have declined their inclusion. Though again, some view this as a "must have" element and strong opinions abound regarding its use... they also break intended effects, and negate factors limiting sensor effectiveness designed into GWX.
The Stay Alert crew mods increase the speed of sensor sweeps (namely visual sensors and hydrophones) in an effort to overcome detection lag times among units in SH3... that are more pronounced with each increment of time compression. Some of you recall the discussions concerning the lack of aircraft attacks in SH3 while in transit at high TC... well, the same is also true of surface unit detection by both enemy and player AI... due to computational lag.
While the aims of the Stay Alert crew mods are admirable, (to prevent situations where the enemy may spot you before you spot them) in so doing they also completely reintroduce the old vampire night vision bug allowing player crew to pretty much instantly spot vessels at the absolute edge of visual range on the darkest of nights. Furthermore, it is also absolutely feasible and appropriate that the enemy may spot you before you spot them. This element must remain, IMHO. It is a risk that U-boat crews faced, and one that GWX users will continue to face.
This decision was only made following their inclusion in files we made available to our testers. Now before any of you think that I'm having a slap at the gentleman who designed the Stay Alert mods... I am not. GW/GWX owes its existence and success to him in a large way. I haven't a single bad thing to say about him.

Loading times:
Loading times will be a bit longer with 1.04. This is unavoidable. Do not confuse this with specifications required to run the game once it IS loaded. Any time we add something new... that didn't previously exist... it potentially increases load times. Though faster systems do shorten the load times a bit... the system that you play GWX on today... will run GWX version 1.04. Just keep your patience. We are all stuck with it as it is precipitated by limitations of the SH3 engine/program design. GWX version 1.04 will not demagnetize your refridgerator magnets or make your hamsters pregnant.

Radar Warning Receiver ranges in relation to SH3/GWX:
Another thing that became readily apparent in testing, is the complete and total reliability of RWR sensors at maximum total range. We have been unable to influence their reliability at outer ranges to make them "fuzzy" and give them any sort of range variance... Though the maximum possible ranges are historically accurate in the currently available evolution of GWX... we are pulling them back a few clicks to make more sense in relation to the environment that can be effectively represented in SH3.
The original ranges in stock SH3, though erroneous, were PROPORTIONATE in relation to historically possible ranges. We have chosen a middle ground. (Don't panic... you should still be able to crash dive in time to avoid trouble if you are vigilant.) In so doing, we've cut down on a bit of the constant radar warnings you may receive that have no real bearing on your current situation. (Do you really want to pick up that bomber formation heading to St. Nazaire 30km away 90 degrees to starboard and have it dump you out of TC each time one of the aircraft is detected?)

Contacts: (Aaronblood this is for you.;) Sorry you had to wait so long.)
In keeping with our "some... but not all" situational awareness availability of information given to the player... contacts are now LOSING their tails. This may not seem like much at first, but that tail gives you the exact heading of the contact, making intercepts a great deal simpler than should be. Making a successful intercept should not be a certainty. This coupled with the pre-existing random waypoint changes of convoys/merchant shipping (and now ASW forces and task forces) makes a successful intercept contain the same frustration in part that the real U-boat forces faced. We cannot simulate the nearly real-time decryption and dissemination of Enigma communications that were VERY often used by the Allies to re-route shipping well away from U-boat hunting areas... so this will serve the purpose. <Yes i hear many of you groaning... now stoppit!>
Once you DO attain visual range though... you can then click on the different contacts and zoom in on the map to reveal the outline and disposition of individual contact headings... as the watch crew could relate to the U-boat commander on his request.

Contact presentation with GWX 1.04:
Zoomed out- (Convoy contacts present similarly to the FIRST screenshot, though the example shown is for visual range individual contacts.)
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f117/KptLehmann/contact1.jpg
Zoomed in-
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f117/KptLehmann/contact2.jpg

Well, that's about it for now. Our next public update will be our final (and biggest/most powerful update :smug: ) ... and it will likely be followed by a fair amount of silence by the dev team as we beat it into submission as a release. Please DO NOT try to read a projected release date based on this. We've learned our lesson concerning such projections by running into unpredictable snags that often take many days to overcome. It will be ready when it is ready!

Oh... and you thought I wasn't going to give you any eye-candy... :arrgh!:
http://rapidshare.com/files/52168964/wonderwhat.7z.html

and here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=634133&postcount=3629

[mr chris]

Sounds good to me. :up:
Nice *** ship. Very impressed with how it sinks.

[Jimbuna]

Xmas could well come early this year :lol: :up:

[Mush Martin]

Thanks for the update Kpt if I have any complaints Ill just mod them
out. Sounds good though.

MM:up::up:

[Kpt. Lehmann]

T... if I have any complaints Ill just mod them
out.

I have no doubt that people will do exactly that.

[Mush Martin]

Honestly Im looking forward to a fresh round of serious none arcadish
play. these days it seems Im mostly testing stuff when I play
(I still reserve one day a month for real play though)

Career games bring elements that missions dont.
each evolving situation and the adaptive approach.
its been a while for a serious career and its long time
I got back to the garden as it were.
M

[Woof1701]

Ok I start complaining: When reading the title I thought I'm gonna see something new, and now I only see what's NOT in the game. No new screenshot *sniff* ;-)

[Venatore]

Now that took my breath away :o

[danlisa]

Ok I start complaining: When reading the title I thought I'm gonna see something new, and now I only see what's NOT in the game. No new screenshot *sniff* ;-)

LOL, you obviously have not d/l'd or viewed the links at the bottom of the first post.

[madmike81]

Holy Smokes! Looks very nice. Very nice indeed.

[Woof1701]

Ok I start complaining: When reading the title I thought I'm gonna see something new, and now I only see what's NOT in the game. No new screenshot *sniff* ;-)

LOL, you obviously have not d/l'd or viewed the links at the bottom of the first post.

Ok. Now I really feel stupid. Thanks ... :damn: :damn: :damn:

:rock: :rock: :rock:

[Mush Martin]

Well I got the d/l and although Im a touch familiar with the subject.
I didnt actually get to see the clip. there is something wrong
with my current version of Media player.

it will give sound but wont show the video portion either of
this clip or of my own video from mr fleck.

wierd surely im missing something.

[danlisa]

Well I got the d/l and although Im a touch familiar with the subject.
I didnt actually get to see the clip. there is something wrong
with my current version of Media player.

it will give sound but wont show the video portion either of
this clip or of my own video from mr fleck.

wierd surely im missing something.
It's a direct Fraps grab, use VLC media player.:up:

http://www.videolan.org/vlc/

I have yet to find a video codec that VLC can't play.

[mkubani]

Hi guys, is anybody out there willing/able to reupload the file from Kaptain to a different host please? Rapidshare isn't friendly with my online provider. :(

[mkubani]

I have yet to find a video codec that VLC can't play.

I did once or twice, but VLC is still the best/easiest to use out there that I know of.

[danlisa]

Hi guys, is anybody out there willing/able to reupload the file from Kaptain to a different host please? Rapidshare isn't friendly with my online provider. :(

Uping to Filefront now. ~10mins

[Jimbuna]

Ok I start complaining: When reading the title I thought I'm gonna see something new, and now I only see what's NOT in the game. No new screenshot *sniff* ;-)

LOL, you obviously have not d/l'd or viewed the links at the bottom of the first post.

Ok. Now I really feel stupid. Thanks ... :damn: :damn: :damn:

:rock: :rock: :rock:


:roll: ............................:lol:

[JCWolf]

This is great news and some nice update mates...

A Hell of a job !:rock:

[Jimbuna]

Hi guys, is anybody out there willing/able to reupload the file from Kaptain to a different host please? Rapidshare isn't friendly with my online provider. :(

Also available from my sig :arrgh!:

[mkubani]

Kaptain and GWX crew, I understand 1.04 is the final version.

My concern is about IBL's Merchant Mod. When he finally finishes the mod, does any of you guys plan to spend the extra time and make it GWX compatible? I mean in terms of damage modelling/sinking behavior + recognition manual, etc.

[danlisa]

Hi guys, is anybody out there willing/able to reupload the file from Kaptain to a different host please? Rapidshare isn't friendly with my online provider. :(
Also available from my sig :arrgh!:

Can't see it on your FF page Jim.

Anywho - http://files.filefront.com/wonderwhat7z/;8437375;;/fileinfo.html

[Dimitrius07]

The "Stay Alert Crew" mods

I have a question

I notice a small thing that bothers me in the 16 km Stay Alert Crew that was biuld to GWX 1.3.

When my crew spot a ship (big or small doesn`t metter) i go to the wach tower, looking throw the binocals and can`t see a damn thing, the same at night. In the standart GWX 16 km i don`t have thise problem.

Now the question to GWX team
Do you also notice thise small problem ? And do you rebild the visual spot range of the Uboat crew ?

[danlisa]

The Stay Alert Crew Mod is NOT going to be in GWX 1.04 for that (& other) reason. FYI, this mod was not included in the original GWX download/install.

The GWX Dev's don't plan to work on this but if you contact Rubini he might help.

[mkubani]

Great, thanks. Downloading now. :up:

[johnno74]

Cheers muchly for the update Kpt. Looking foward to the final release....

I like the sounds of removing the map contact tails. I started playing without map updates, but to be honest I've found it very tough going when you meet a convoy. Keeping situational awareness working out where to try and sneak past the destroyer pickets is very tough indeed, and for someone like me that only gets a couple of hours a week to play its just too hard to be much fun.

Having map contacts on makes it all a bit arcadish and easy though, I think removing the tails is a brilliant idea and should be a good middle ground

Well done :up:

[Dimitrius07]

The Stay Alert Crew Mod is NOT going to be in GWX 1.04 for that (& other) reason. FYI, this mod was not included in the original GWX download/install.

The GWX Dev's don't plan to work on this but if you contact Rubini he might help.

God damn :damn: Not again, i am apologies, i did not read the Lehman first post correctly.

[Jimbuna]

The Stay Alert Crew Mod is NOT going to be in GWX 1.04 for that (& other) reason. FYI, this mod was not included in the original GWX download/install.

The GWX Dev's don't plan to work on this but if you contact Rubini he might help.

Didn't post a direct link Dan....left it to the Kpt.....anyway, here it is.....it has its original name but the file is the same (tis pointless hosting it twice) :up:

http://files.filefront.com/Airship2avi/;8437453;;/fileinfo.html

[Kpt. Lehmann]

The Stay Alert Crew Mod is NOT going to be in GWX 1.04 for that (& other) reason. FYI, this mod was not included in the original GWX download/install.

The GWX Dev's don't plan to work on this but if you contact Rubini he might help.

God damn :damn: Not again, i am apologies, i did not read the Lehman first post correctly.

No worries mate. You should see me attempting to read Hebrew. You guys would slap me.:oops:

[Mush Martin]

Well I got the d/l and although Im a touch familiar with the subject.
I didnt actually get to see the clip. there is something wrong
with my current version of Media player.

it will give sound but wont show the video portion either of
this clip or of my own video from mr fleck.

wierd surely im missing something.
It's a direct Fraps grab, use VLC media player.:up:

http://www.videolan.org/vlc/

I have yet to find a video codec that VLC can't play.
thanks Danlisa, It was getting a bit frustrating as I couldnt Identify
what I was missing.
M


[edit] @ Danlisa that works Great thanks again.

@ GWX Dev team. Wow Kship looks great and looks like its working good.
M

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Kaptain and GWX crew, I understand 1.04 is the final version.

My concern is about IBL's Merchant Mod. When he finally finishes the mod, does any of you guys plan to spend the extra time and make it GWX compatible? I mean in terms of damage modelling/sinking behavior + recognition manual, etc.

Yes, 1.04 is to be the final version.

Regarding IABL's merchant mod, given the structure that Bigboywooly has built into the random campaign layer and its relationship to convoy merchant assignment, there shouldn't be much work to be done to make his merchant mod compatible with GWX.

Regarding the damage models for the new merchants... in part yes and in part no. vonHelsching was our damage model officianado and we wore the poor guy out during the development of GWX version 1.0. (The last version that include new major content.) Though all damage models will remain influenced by the global settings in the Zones.Cfg file... building new damage models from the ground up... it is no longer practical for us to attempt it.

That being said, if former GWX devs are willing, once we are sure of the parent model of the new merchies in question... given time, they will likely have GWX damage models ported over from the relevant ships in GWX... and possibly be a perfect fit. (Though I wouldn't look to the GWX devs to do much for a NICE LONG BREAK after release of 1.04, LOL.)

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Just as a heads-up.

The primary architect of the K-ship was Privateer. Ref, JU_88, and Ichneumon also have had a hand in bringing it to light.:up: :up: :up:

Thanks for filming it Jimbuna!

[Hawk U-375]

Buying stock in "StarBuck's" as I write....Looking foward to more Sleepless nights!!!!!!:rock: :|\\

[Dimitrius07]

Kpt. Lehmann

All right, i watch the video clip and i like what i saw. The model of a new unit is very good and i like how she going down ;).

[lutzow]

The new air units are kicked my ass into orbit;).
Incredibly detailed awesome aircrafts are flying to us.

Respect & glory forever for GWX team:up:.
Who are they in normal life? Spidermans?
They should make SH5.

[GT182]

Ugrade to WMP 11 and the Kpt.'s download will play just fine. ;)

And Kpt., that is truely impressive. GWX 1.04 sounds to be as good as it gets for SHIII so far. Realism being the key factor. Congrats to the Team, you guys have done one hell of a job. :up: ~S!~

[mkubani]

Great film clip guys. Fantastic airship. :rock: BTW, is it "smokeless" or will it "develop" some smoke when the right parts are hit (e.g. engines)?

Ok, thanks for the info about IABL's mod and GWX. Actually, I think that's all I need to keep me happy for next 5 years = GWX 1.04 + IABL's MM.

[Jimbuna]

Great film clip guys. Fantastic airship. :rock: BTW, is it "smokeless" or will it "develop" some smoke when the right parts are hit (e.g. engines)?

Ok, thanks for the info about IABL's mod and GWX. Actually, I think that's all I need to keep me happy for next 5 years = GWX 1.04 + IABL's MM.

If you look real carefully you'll see smoke coming from her when she takes some initial damage :yep:

[PeKe]

I hate this sneak prewievs, just make me wanna have it right NOW!!!! :D

No, it looking really good, and I am really looking forward to playing it.

Great work guys!:up:

[mkubani]

Ok, found a bug on the ship. :) It's missing a "dot" behind "S" in "U.S Navy" LOL. :P

@Jim, I meant a burning smoke and fire like when you hit an airplane. Is that incorporated too? Or was there some sort of limitation on that?

http://www.airventure.de/historypics/Blimp_Kship.jpg

[Morts]

The Stay Alert Crew Mod is NOT going to be in GWX 1.04 for that (& other) reason. FYI, this mod was not included in the original GWX download/install.

The GWX Dev's don't plan to work on this but if you contact Rubini he might help.

God damn :damn: Not again, i am apologies, i did not read the Lehman first post correctly.

No worries mate. You should see me attempting to read Hebrew. You guys would slap me.:oops:
id slap you anyways
just for fun:rotfl: :rotfl:
j/k Kpt. Lemon:rotfl:

[Vader 1]

Contacts: (Aaronblood this is for you.;) Sorry you had to wait so long.)
In keeping with our "some... but not all" situational awareness availability of information given to the player... contacts are now LOSING their tails. This may not seem like much at first, but that tail gives you the exact heading of the contact, making intercepts a great deal simpler than should be. Making a successful intercept should not be a certainty. This coupled with the pre-existing random waypoint changes of convoys/merchant shipping (and now ASW forces and task forces) makes a successful intercept contain the same frustration in part that the real U-boat forces faced. We cannot simulate the nearly real-time decryption and dissemination of Enigma communications that were VERY often used by the Allies to re-route shipping well away from U-boat hunting areas... so this will serve the purpose. <Yes i hear many of you groaning... now stoppit!>
Once you DO attain visual range though... you can then click on the different contacts and zoom in on the map to reveal the outline and disposition of individual contact headings... as the watch crew could relate to the U-boat commander on his request.





Thank you thank you and finally a huge thank you, this is a huge immersion killer for myself....1st rate work as always

Vader

[Jimbuna]

@Jim, I meant a burning smoke and fire like when you hit an airplane. Is that incorporated too? Or was there some sort of limitation on that?

You'll have to wait and see......Kpt. relesed a little more eye candy, but it was not intended to stimulate a detailed question and answer debate. Sorry matey ;)

[Spruence M]

I am eager to see more!

[mkubani]

Roger that jim, going back to my cave now. Wake me up when it's done. :)

[Jimbuna]

Roger that jim, going back to my cave now. Wake me up when it's done. :)

No prob mate....I doubt you'll be dissapointed ;)

[mkubani]

Sure, just please add that "dot" in "U.S Navy" sign... Otherwise it may kill the GWX 1.04 for me. :hmm::sunny:

[Mikey_Wolf]

Good heavens above, I'll give you GWX guys your dues! You really have done wonders for the game. I'm in awe.

I don't know what to say in reply to what all Ive seen, except that I can't wait to stick the update on. I'll be here again just like with 1.01 I'll be here at the download no matter what tim eof night it is.

Well done fellers.

[XLjedi]

Contacts: (Aaronblood this is for you.;) Sorry you had to wait so long.)
In keeping with our "some... but not all" situational awareness availability of information given to the player... contacts are now LOSING their tails. This may not seem like much at first, but that tail gives you the exact heading of the contact, making intercepts a great deal simpler than should be. Making a successful intercept should not be a certainty. This coupled with the pre-existing random waypoint changes of convoys/merchant shipping (and now ASW forces and task forces) makes a successful intercept contain the same frustration in part that the real U-boat forces faced. We cannot simulate the nearly real-time decryption and dissemination of Enigma communications that were VERY often used by the Allies to re-route shipping well away from U-boat hunting areas... so this will serve the purpose. <Yes i hear many of you groaning... now stoppit!>
Once you DO attain visual range though... you can then click on the different contacts and zoom in on the map to reveal the outline and disposition of individual contact headings... as the watch crew could relate to the U-boat commander on his request.





Thank you thank you and finally a huge thank you, this is a huge immersion killer for myself....1st rate work as always

Vader

That's pretty good news... nice work. :up:

I've also been critical of the hydro-contact line terminating at the exact target location. By chance could we expect to see a line that extends to a non-discriminate point? Pretty sure I've seen a mod for this somewhere...

...and I guess those contacts are still gonna be exact in the sense that they pinpoint target location. I guess now you'll just mark a position, wait a few minutes, mark the next position and you'll have target true course and exact location again. Is that a fair assessment?

I still think the standard version of GWX should include the original %age deduction for enabling map contact updates. Granted, people can mod it as they see fit (although, this is really more of a valid argument for GWX NOT messing with it). At least that way I would understand the difference when people say they play 100% vs. those that play 100% with map updates turned off. From what I can see, there's still going to be a big difference in the difficulty. (Notice I said difficulty and not realism, as most people around here seem to equate realism to simulating the captain's perspective alone.)

[TheDarkWraith]

[...and I guess those contacts are still gonna be exact in the sense that they pinpoint target location. I guess now you'll just mark a position, wait a few minutes, mark the next position and you'll have target true course and exact location again. Is that a fair assessment?

Replace the solid line TGA used with a largely spaced dashed one and you lose that pinpoint accuracy. Problem fixed.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

[...and I guess those contacts are still gonna be exact in the sense that they pinpoint target location. I guess now you'll just mark a position, wait a few minutes, mark the next position and you'll have target true course and exact location again. Is that a fair assessment?

Replace the solid line TGA used with a largely spaced dashed one and you lose that pinpoint accuracy. Problem fixed.

Already done. I just forgot to mention it.

[Hakahura]

Kpt, as usual it all sounds and looks great.

I can't wait.

Looks like you guys at GWX are'nt just raising the bar again, but downright stealing the thing with a crane and driving out the stadium!

And now finally I can see a point to having AA Guns!
Can't wait to shoot down one of those blimps!

[XLjedi]

[...and I guess those contacts are still gonna be exact in the sense that they pinpoint target location. I guess now you'll just mark a position, wait a few minutes, mark the next position and you'll have target true course and exact location again. Is that a fair assessment?

Replace the solid line TGA used with a largely spaced dashed one and you lose that pinpoint accuracy. Problem fixed.

Already done. I just forgot to mention it.

Excellent! thank you

I guess there's nothing we can really do about the pinpoint accuracy on the plotted contacts though huh.... ie. there's no way for us to mod variability in the contacts plotted location to account for maybe a little tracking team error. :hmm:

[Kpt. Lehmann]

[...and I guess those contacts are still gonna be exact in the sense that they pinpoint target location. I guess now you'll just mark a position, wait a few minutes, mark the next position and you'll have target true course and exact location again. Is that a fair assessment?

Replace the solid line TGA used with a largely spaced dashed one and you lose that pinpoint accuracy. Problem fixed.

Already done. I just forgot to mention it.

Excellent! thank you

I guess there's nothing we can really do about the pinpoint accuracy on the plotted contacts though huh.... ie. there's no way for us to mod variability in the contacts plotted location to account for maybe a little tracking team error. :hmm:

Considering that a convoy contact report only now usually gives you a generalized speed and heading description (ie:"slow" and "ENE" etc..) ... and is subject to random waypoint and speed changes... Don't you think that is little enough information?

Its as far as we will go. The option to turn off all contacts will remain if you feel it is still too much information.

[XLjedi]

Considering that a convoy contact report only now usually gives you a generalized speed and heading description (ie:"slow" and "ENE" etc..) ... and is subject to random waypoint and speed changes... Don't you think that is little enough information?

Its as far as we will go. The option to turn off all contacts will remain if you feel it is still too much information.

Nah... I like what you've done with the radio contact reports. That's a big improvement for both map updates on and off! I like that it's just a square to go along with the gross direction of south or southeast, etc. Should make the intercepts a little more challenging.

What I was talking about had to do with the picture that was posted showing the perfect position of all the close proximity contacts. If I understand correctly, if you go under water you don't see em and the hydro will now give non-descript bearings (very good). But if you raise your scope the perfect info would instantly appear on the map as squares without tails... is that right?

I'm sayin I don't think anything can be done about that. What you've done sounds good to me. ...and you're right, I can turn it off if I want.

Whadya think about setting the realism/difficulty % of your modded map updates to reflect half of the deduct of the original? That seems fair. :hmm:

[XLjedi]

Oh, and I almost forgot...

Would it be possible to either...

1) Get rid of that gi-normous compass image for the sub when zoomed all the way in. I'd be content to stick with the default. That's gotta save on file size too right?

2) or at least adjust the alignment so 0° actually points to 0° relative? It's off by like at least a degree or two.


I hate this giant compass. But... I guess I can unmod it if it's something that's back by popular demand.
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f117/KptLehmann/contact2.jpg

[Packerton]

That compass helps alot, lets you know when your in visable range of a ship..althougth cheating :up:

[TheDarkWraith]

Oh, and I almost forgot...

Would it be possible to either...

1) Get rid of that gi-normous compass image for the sub when zoomed all the way in. I'd be content to stick with the default. That's gotta save on file size too right?

That giant compass is easy to change and/or get rid of. The file is \data\Submarine\NSS_Uboatxx\NSS_Uboatxx_shp.tga

[XLjedi]

Oh, and I almost forgot...

Would it be possible to either...

1) Get rid of that gi-normous compass image for the sub when zoomed all the way in. I'd be content to stick with the default. That's gotta save on file size too right?

That giant compass is easy to change and/or get rid of. The file is \data\Submarine\NSS_Uboatxx\NSS_Uboatxx_shp.tga

Yeah... I know... I know... It'd be easy to add too.

What's the prevailing mood? Do the majority like it?

Maybe at least fix it so it's properly aligned.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

We have incorporated an alignment fix for the compass overlay that you speak of in GWX. Though I am unsure of exactly how much it reduces the false declination to stern bearings that is present in SH3... The declination is reduced however, making for a higher degree of accuracy. The overlay itself will remain.

Regarding the "realism percentage" versus map contacts enabled. You and I have already discussed the matter. My decision remains (and will remain) unchanged, especially in light of the new presentation of map contact data introduced by GWX version 1.04.

Having NO information plotted onto the F5 map is NOT the way to go for "100% realism" as I see it. You have a crew and a radio. Players do not (typically) have a big plotting and navigation table to plot radio reports onto.

Some F5 map situational awareness is in my view entirely appropriate for playing at "100% realism."

Regarding your comment about the periscope being raised and subsequent contacts reappearing and showing their heading etc. I don't see any problem with that. Getting that info by periscope is easier than doing so with binocs from the bridge due to optical assists present in RL periscopes. In SH3, the periscope however also represents a "one size fits all" visual sensor. If you leave the periscope unattended it begins to sweep just as your watchmen do. (IE: Another crewman mans the scope.) We've done what we could. However, the periscope does take longer than a bridge crew to aquire and gather target data. It is ONE sensor... whereas your watch crew represents one visual sensor per crewman.

@ Racerboy and anyone else using this thread to deconstruct elements of GWX 1.04 prior to it even being released... Start your own thread to do so.
I don't think you'd appreciate it much if you cooked us a steak and we put ketchup on it before we even tasted it.

[TheDarkWraith]

@ Racerboy and anyone else using this thread to deconstruct elements of GWX 1.04 prior to it even being released... Start your own thread to do so.
I don't think you'd appreciate it much if you cooked us a steak and we put ketchup on it before we even tasted it.

Not trying to deconstruct it, just helping a mate out that's all. :shifty:

[XLjedi]

Regarding the "realism percentage" versus map contacts enabled. You and I have already discussed the matter. My decision remains (and will remain) unchanged, especially in light of the new presentation of map contact data introduced by GWX version 1.04.

I'm usually careful to say difficulty and not realism... "Realism %" is a misnomer anyway. I thought going half-way might be a good comprimise. I'll just continue to specify 100%-no-map-updates then. I s'pose 99% is out too, huh?

Ah well... I tried...


Having NO information plotted onto the F5 map is NOT the way to go for "100% realism" as I see it. You have a crew and a radio. Players do not (typically) have a big plotting and navigation table to plot radio reports onto.

:D :ping: ;)


Regarding your comment about the periscope being raised and subsequent contacts reappearing and showing their heading etc. I don't see any problem with that. Getting that info by periscope is easier than doing so with binocs from the bridge due to optical assists present in RL periscopes. In SH3, the periscope however also represents a "one size fits all" visual sensor. If you leave the periscope unattended it begins to sweep just as your watchmen do. (IE: Another crewman mans the scope.) We've done what we could. However, the periscope does take longer than a bridge crew to aquire and gather target data. It is ONE sensor... whereas your watch crew represents one visual sensor per crewman.

Well all the contacts just get instantly plotted in their precise locations. I wasn't necessarily zeroing in on just the parascope. The watch crew too, right... it's a very efficient and accurate crew. But like I've said, and you've sorta mentioned, you've done what you could. I don't think there's anything you could do to add some error to the plotted positions. Just the way it's designed.

You guys have done a good job. :up:

[headcase]

You guys rock.:rock: I don't make enough money to buy all the booze ya'll deserve for this level of excellence. And I say that knowing it's gonna kick my ___:damn:

[WilhelmSchulz.]

Your ditching the tails! Why? I know I know "it improves realisem" but it will become impossible to intercept convoy as you usaly only get 1 contact and you cant get genral direction!

[XLjedi]

Your ditching the tails! Why? I know I know "it improves realisem" but it will become impossible to intercept convoy as you usaly only get 1 contact and you cant get genral direction!

If you click on the contact it tells you the general direction. It'll say south, or southeast... that should be good enough for an intercept. :yep:

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Your ditching the tails! Why? I know I know "it improves realisem" but it will become impossible to intercept convoy as you usaly only get 1 contact and you cant get genral direction!

For exactly that reason... to promote better "realism" in the simulation... not convenience.

Yet again Wilhelmshculz... you failed to read the post closely and fired off your response half-cooked... again.

When you click on convoy or close contacts... it does indeed give you the general heading... not the exact heading. If it doesn't suit your play style... don't use GWX. Simple really.

[danlisa]

Your ditching the tails! Why? I know I know "it improves realisem" but it will become impossible to intercept convoy as you usaly only get 1 contact and you cant get genral direction!
For exactly that reason... to promote better "realism" in the simulation... not convenience.

Yet again Wilhelmshculz... you failed to read the post closely and fired off your response half-cooked... again.

When you click on convoy or close contacts... it does indeed give you the general heading... not the exact heading. If it doesn't suit your play style... don't use GWX. Simple really.
Oh, LOL. Deja Vu!

Copy & Paste......
GWX has, since it's inception, strived for realism, immersion and accuracy. I believe that every member of the Dev Team has pushed hard for a simulation that excells in those catagories and we have nearly arrived.

However, the one area, nearly untouched by the Devs has been the Nav Map information & how it is displayed (apart from grey contacts) and I feel it needs attention. It's the one thing that has never been given the GWX magic.

On the subject of 'No Tail' contacts. Yes this makes it harder but it also makes you plan & plot your course and the course of your prey. I had a great immersive experience last night where I was shadowing a contact for over 2 days and you could actually accurately plot the course changes made by my prey. Yes! I have never ever had to do this before.

I must state that I'm in no way a hardcore player. I usually play with Map Contacts on & with no manual targeting. I do feel that this addition greatly adds to the game and I can certainly see why some may stuggle but in my mind this mod screams to be in GWX for the reasons & values I have stated above.
Simply!

Don't like it?
Don't use it/Fix it yourself!

Time to put up or shut up.

You know who I'm speaking to.:shifty:

[AtlantikEel]

WOW! :up:

As if all the other stuff thrown at our boats isn't enough!
Now we have an aerial "Silent Service" to worry about!

Fairly easy to avoid and shoot down .... if you see or hear them coming.
The thought of these things drifting, engines off, along the eastern seaboard at night ..... looking for surfaced u-boats .....

[Kpt. Lehmann]

WOW! :up:

As if all the other stuff thrown at our boats isn't enough!
Now we have an aerial "Silent Service" to worry about!

Fairly easy to avoid and shoot down .... if you see or hear them coming.
The thought of these things drifting, engines off, along the eastern seaboard at night ..... looking for surfaced u-boats .....

Well, if the airship so much as spots you... it has done its job... as in-game it vectors any local ASW forces (surface or aerial units) to your location... just as it happens when other units spot you... they radio for backup.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Further developmental tidbit...

Based on the real life recordings found on this post: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=628937&postcount=4

We are reverting the external submarine propellor and submarine hydrophone signature to a sound file we first used in the old GW 1.1a mod... as it turns out to be more historically accurate. The old GW 1.1a sub propellor sounds were initially removed as a result of someone complaining that they sounded like a squeaky fan-belt LOL... Well, that's apparently what the real things sounded like... So we are reverting to the relevant Das Boot sounds for the sake of accuracy.

We aren't driving nuke boats... We are driving diesel subs aye?

[Jimbuna]

@Jim, I meant a burning smoke and fire like when you hit an airplane. Is that incorporated too? Or was there some sort of limitation on that?

You'll have to wait and see......Kpt. released a little more eye candy, but it was not intended to stimulate a detailed question and answer debate. Sorry matey ;)

Guess I was wrong :damn:

:lol:

[mkubani]

BTW, the K-ship was filled with helium, right? :) = no fire. :know:

[Captain Nemo]

You guys rock.:rock: I don't make enough money to buy all the booze ya'll deserve for this level of excellence. And I say that knowing it's gonna kick my ___:damn:

I'll second that.:up:

Nemo

[Syxx_Killer]

With the tails gone now, would it be possible to put the contline.tga (I think that is what it is) from a stock version back in to get red warship hydrophone lines back? I think if you did that with grayed out contacts, the tail would go back to the original colors, too. I'm just curious because I may like to do that to my own installation. I don't have the game reinstalled yet so I can't check which TGA it is.

[Pants]

Will there be an option to choose how " realistic" you want the game to play like with the mods folder in 1.03
Because not everyone wants to play superdooper realistic;)
And will it be " user friendly " regarding tweaking it to your own personal taste?

[Mikey_Wolf]

I should imagine it would be quite simple to replace the tails, if its just the one TGA file, sounds like this update is cruising along pretty nicely. And whats this some TGW making its way into GWX? Tell ya, you can't beat the classics.:up:

[melnibonian]

Will there be an option to choose how " realistic" you want the game to play like with the mods folder in 1.03
Because not everyone wants to play superdooper realistic;)
And will it be " user friendly " regarding tweaking it to your own personal taste?
Once 1.04 is out I'm sure there will be ways so that each individual alters the realism levels. Until then it's "Radio Silence" and loads of work in the Beta to avoid mistakes and more complaints ;)

[Dimitrius07]

Well here is my opinion on the new contact system that going to be included in GWX 1.4.

As a matter of true i liked it a lot, yes i agreed that the tactic of interseption of convoy or single ship need to be changed (well at least in my case).

But thise is chalenging, aspecially when you play 100% realism. The matter of " If my solution was right, and if my torpidoes going to find they mark" will become more and more important in the next update, and i can`t wait :up: :rock:

[Jimbuna]

BTW, the K-ship was filled with helium, right? :) = no fire. :know:

Helium is correct :yep:


The sausage-shaped envelope of a K-ship was made of rubberized canvas painted silver to reduce solar heating. The ship got most of its buoyancy from the helium gas it contained, with the shape of the bag providing some extra lift. Inside the envelope were two ballonets, fore and aft, filled with air.

[danlisa]

I should imagine it would be quite simple to replace the tails, if its just the one TGA file.

Got it in one.:up:

[Ubåtskapten]

That airship looks really cool!:up:


Too bad a reworked version of the LRT mod will not be included, as I believe the roughly 3 minutes repair times in GWX/stock is way to short (and yes 32 hours on the contrary, is too much). But I can understand that it would cause problems regarding all the files it alters, and with the original LRT-modder not around any more.

However, I have no doubt that you guys will take the GWXperience many steps further (with or without LRT) with your upcoming release!! :D:sunny:

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Will there be an option to choose how " realistic" you want the game to play like with the mods folder in 1.03
Because not everyone wants to play superdooper realistic;)
And will it be " user friendly " regarding tweaking it to your own personal taste?

The optional mods folder does not influence how realistic the gameplay in SH3/GWX is.

It simply contains optional modifications. No further optional mods will be added to that folder. The only change is that the "Reduced Positive Bouyancy" will become default as it is a refinement of the original... and that optional mod will be deleted.

Regarding being user friendly to alter... that isn't a question I can really answer any differently than before. Any post release changes made by the user will be done at their own risk. The GWX dev team is not responsible for assisting each user with changes to suit individual preferences.

[WilhelmSchulz.]

Woh nice blimp. Will they be escorting convoys? Because thwey actuly did escort a few convoys.

[Jimbuna]

According to the official record....'no merchant was ever lost to a submarine whilst being escorted by an airship' :arrgh!:

[JU_88]

According to the official record....'no merchant was ever lost to a submarine whilst being escorted by an airship' :arrgh!:

They should have used them more often!

[mkubani]

According to the official record....'no merchant was ever lost to a submarine whilst being escorted by an airship' :arrgh!:

Hehe, that means the GWX guys are not gonna put the Blimps near convoys because if they did and you happen to sink a ship from such a convoy, you would be reversing/denying historical accuracy. :know: You are not supposed to sink any ship near a Blimp, people! It never happened in real life! :damn: Just kill the Blimp and that's it. :D

[Pants]

If a " blimp " is teathered to a ship and the ship sinks, What happens to said blimp?
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f117/KptLehmann/bb.jpg (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=589315&postcount=30)

(http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=589315&postcount=30)

[bigboywooly]

Well if the ship sinks in port nothing happens to the blimp apart from dropping lower
It remains tethered to the ship

In open water not sure as not sunk one but I imagine tis the same till the blimp hits water then should disappear

Will check that though with Privateer
They do have a damage model IIRC

[Pants]

Thx BBW matey :up:

[Penelope_Grey]

Well if you ask me... I rekcon the blimp should work like a flotation device... which irritatingly stops the ship completely sinking.:lol:

[Kpt. Lehmann]

According to the official record....'no merchant was ever lost to a submarine whilst being escorted by an airship' :arrgh!:

Hehe, that means the GWX guys are not gonna put the Blimps near convoys because if they did and you happen to sink a ship from such a convoy, you would be reversing/denying historical accuracy. :know: You are not supposed to sink any ship near a Blimp, people! It never happened in real life! :damn: Just kill the Blimp and that's it. :D

After passing that bit to Privateer, he assures me that, "Technically, I can add every ASW detection sensor available so you can't get within 100 miles of this thing with out being detected if that's your wish!"
:rotfl:

Somehow I think you guys wouldn't appreciate that much.

[Jimbuna]

According to the official record....'no merchant was ever lost to a submarine whilst being escorted by an airship' :arrgh!:

They should have used them more often!

Good point......:lol:

[Jimbuna]

Well if the ship sinks in port nothing happens to the blimp apart from dropping lower
It remains tethered to the ship

In open water not sure as not sunk one but I imagine tis the same till the blimp hits water then should disappear

Will check that though with Privateer
They do have a damage model IIRC

Have tested (with screenies) will PM you :up:

[Webchessie]

Please no more sneak peaks. My little heart can't stand the all this anticipation!;)

[i_b_spectre]

The screenshot I see above shows what appears to be a barrage balloon tethered to a ship. Barrage balloons are not the same as Blimps. Barrage balloons were unmanned and meant to provide aerial collisions obstacles to aircraft thereby discouraging them. Blimps, on the other hand, were manned LTAs (Lighter Than Air ships) which provided an important reconnaisance/detection role.

An interesting aside, I once read that WWI era airships were classified in two types:
A. Rigid
B. Limp
Hence the term, "blimp", denoting a lighter-than-air, gas filled envelope as opposed to a rigidly framed airship housing lighter-than-air gas filled chambers/cells. I haven't researched this to verify its authenticity, but it sounds about right.

[Jimbuna]

You are correct...the poster of the picture probably meant to call it a barrage balloon....a simple enough error I think. :yep:
The picture does in fact depict a Sperrbrecher Class vessel equipped with a barage balloon.....these are used in some of the axis ports in the game to guide the U-boat in and out of base via the navigable channel :arrgh!:

[von Zelda]

I've played sub sim games since the mid '80s (Silent Service being the first). I've played SH3 for over 2 years moving up to the present GWX 1.03 version. I do not see how you can make this game any better, but I expect you will with the release of the 1.04 version.

That said, playing the 8x version of GWX 1.03 (laptop will not handle 16x option), the best mod todate (in my humble opinion) was Rubini's Stay Alert Crew mod. Until this mod was released, I always thought the crew was dumb and blind. I believe that the crew should be able to spot contacts visually or by hydrophone as well as I could, but they never did. Playing with even low Time Compression, one has to depend on the crew for observation. I always thought the crew let me down. Now, this all changed with the release of the Stay Alert Crew mod. I for one hate to see it go.

Is it possible, for those of us that use the 8x version, to place the 8x Stay Alert Crew mod into the mod folder to use as an option?

If this request is totally out of the realm of possibility, will it be possible for us to use Rubini's present and current Stay Alert Crew mod with the new 1.04 version without harmful side effects?

Your responce will be very much appreciated. Eagerly waiting on the release of the new 1.04 version.

[Mikey_Wolf]

Well I wouldn't think they could really answer your question at the moment vonzelda, if they are still testing the update, then they wouldn't be using external modifacations with it I'd have thought.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

We've already rendered decisions on the Stay Alert Mods as outlined in the first post.

They were tested extensively as a part of earlier alpha/beta builds.

I don't know if they will be compatible in the end for those who wish to use them on top of GWX 1.04.

[Cezbor]

Sad news, sad....:-?

[Hitman]

Sad news, sad....:-?


Not necessarily. I would instead asume that if that mod is not compatible, that's because the team found an even better solution or integrated it completely and improved :up:

[Cezbor]

Sad news, sad....:-?


Not necessarily. I would instead asume that if that mod is not compatible, that's because the team found an even better solution or integrated it completely and improved :up:

Yeah, point well taken:yep:

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Maybe if people would bother to read the first post they'd know WHY we did what we did. We know what we are doing.

The "Stay Alert Crew" mods:
We also exhaustively tested the "Stay Alert" crew mods that are intended to increase player visual and hydrophone sensor accuity... and have declined their inclusion. Though again, some view this as a "must have" element and strong opinions abound regarding its use... they also break intended effects, and negate factors limiting sensor effectiveness designed into GWX.
The Stay Alert crew mods increase the speed of sensor sweeps (namely visual sensors and hydrophones) in an effort to overcome detection lag times among units in SH3... that are more pronounced with each increment of time compression. Some of you recall the discussions concerning the lack of aircraft attacks in SH3 while in transit at high TC... well, the same is also true of surface unit detection by both enemy and player AI... due to computational lag.
While the aims of the Stay Alert crew mods are admirable, (to prevent situations where the enemy may spot you before you spot them) in so doing they also completely reintroduce the old vampire night vision bug allowing player crew to pretty much instantly spot vessels at the absolute edge of visual range on the darkest of nights. Furthermore, it is also absolutely feasible and appropriate that the enemy may spot you before you spot them. This element must remain, IMHO. It is a risk that U-boat crews faced, and one that GWX users will continue to face.
This decision was only made following their inclusion in files we made available to our testers. Now before any of you think that I'm having a slap at the gentleman who designed the Stay Alert mods... I am not. GW/GWX owes its existence and success to him in a large way. I haven't a single bad thing to say about him.

[Maraz]

When you click on convoy or close contacts... it does indeed give you the general heading... not the exact heading. If it doesn't suit your play style... don't use GWX. Simple really.

No tail for contacts is very good to me, very realistic. But as far as I understand, also the own submarine's tail does disappear with this mod.

Would it be possible to retain somehow the own sub's tail? During the attack I do not use waypoints, so having a tail on my sub, showing where it is going, would be a good help. Otherwise I am afraid I would be a bit too overloaded (I play with 100% difficulty and manual targeting).

Maybe I should mod the 2km bearing indicator to a simpler form, and make it appear at lower zoom level? Any other idea?

Maraz

[Kpt. Lehmann]

When you click on convoy or close contacts... it does indeed give you the general heading... not the exact heading. If it doesn't suit your play style... don't use GWX. Simple really.

No tail for contacts is very good to me, very realistic. But as far as I understand, also the own submarine's tail does disappear with this mod.

Would it be possible to retain somehow the own sub's tail? During the attack I do not use waypoints, so having a tail on my sub, showing where it is going, would be a good help. Otherwise I am afraid I would be a bit too overloaded (I play with 100% difficulty and manual targeting).

Maybe I should mod the 2km bearing indicator to a simpler form, and make it appear at lower zoom level? Any other idea?

Maraz

Hi Maraz,

Unfortunately the ship and sub tails are apparently governed by the same graphic file... making it an all-or-nothing affair.

What you might do to give yourself a heading reference, is to make temporary pencil marks on the map, or a ruler line enough to be visible at outer zoom... Zoom out to make your calculations or what have you... then just delete them when you are finished with that block of navigation.

[XLjedi]

Maybe I should mod the 2km bearing indicator to a simpler form, and make it appear at lower zoom level? Any other idea?

Maraz

Doesn't that huge compass overlay image indicate the sub heading?

Oh NO... Don't make that thing appear when zoomed out too!!!

[mkubani]

Ok people, will you do us a favor and let this thread die? Because each time I see it on the top of the list, I am hoping for a new screenshot from GWX guys. :D :D :D I guess we need to wait for DSPP #6 for more screenies, heh. :p Ok, had a long day in the office, sorry. Time to submerge into Excel table again... :doh: