NYGM_GWX different number of torpedo's for kill

[silentwayIII]

Task Force, Jan 15th, 1944, Grid AF87. I attacked this task force on two occasions with GWX 1.3 and NYGM w/2.6b upgrade. In GWX @ approx 4000 meters I kill the aircraft carrier (Illustrious class) with two torpedo's both times. With NYGM same distance, two torpedo's I stop it. To get it to sink required another 5 torpedo's over a span of 5-6 hours fired at different locations of the hull...bow, engines rear, ammo etc.

Why should there be such a difference? Any clarification on this matter would be greatly appreciated.

SilentwayIII

[TarJak]

The explanation is simple. Both mods use quite different damage models. NYGM tends towards modelling of flooding of compartments, so the best way to ensure a sinking of a large ship is to bet as many holes in as many different places under the waterline as possible.

GWX uses a highly modified version of the NYGM model which usually gives faster sinking times.

If you read the manuals for both mods you'll see quite a bit of detail on how each mod approaches sinkings. Additionally run a search on the threads here for sinking times or damage models and you'll find some vigourous discussions on the topic.

[Pants]

Sorry TarJak matey GWX uses thier own damage model done by Von and a few others. Newly built from the ground up.
I was working with Von beta testing it for him for GWX 1.01. I Don't mean to be a smart arse and cause offence just wanted to let you know thats all ;)

GWX damage model uses both damage attained and flooding.
Best rule of thumb is to hit different parts of the ship to cause the most damage possible and if need be target below the waterline with your DG to finnish it off. :up:

[TarJak]

Sorry TarJak matey GWX uses thier own damage model done by Von and a few others. Newly built from the ground up.
I was working with Von beta testing it for him for GWX 1.01. I Don't mean to be a smart arse and cause offence just wanted to let you know thats all ;)

GWX damage model uses both damage attained and flooding.
Best rule of thumb is to hit different parts of the ship to cause the most damage possible and if need be target below the waterline with your DG to finnish it off. :up:

None taken and happy to be corrected when wrong. I'd assumed it was taken from the original NYGM model that was in TGW1.1

[Kpt. Lehmann]

No worries. Just for clarity, after we removed the NYGM damage models vonHelsching rebuilt the merchant damage models from the ground up, added a rather large number of new damage models, and improved many existing stock warship damage models over the course of six months during the development of GWX version 1.0.;)

[silentwayIII]

So, which damage model is more realistic?

When I think of a carrier, in this case, I think of large compartments, and no real armor belt around the hull. I could be wrong on this but, carrier sinkings, both British and American in WWII, were many times accomplished with a couple of torpedo's, ala GWX. But this presumes that the carrier is hit in its most vulnerable area (s) of the hull which can't be done each and everytime.

On the other hand, the NYGM model, while totally realistic in concept may take the damage/flooding model too far, imho regarding the sinking of a vessal that was historically a fairly easy boat to sink in real life.

SilentwayIII

[Pants]

Escort carriers ( Bogue class, casablanca and so on ) were nothing more than converted merchants with minimal protection. The US navy class these as CVE, the sailors called them Combustable, Vunerable and expendable. However the fleet carriers ( essex class and so on ) had better armour protection in torpedo blisters and thicker armour than the CVE's.
As for which mod has more realistic damage model i can only speak for gwx. Hundreds of hours went into researching and testing the new damage model to get it as close to the real thing as possible with the games limitations.

[melnibonian]

So, which damage model is more realistic?
In my opinion the GWX Model is more realistic (I'm a bit biased as well it's true ;) ). The reasons for this are as follows:
1. Ships in GWX can be sunk by structural damage (i.e. "Hit Points"), flooding (as per NYGM) and hits in critical areas (as per Stock SH3)
2. Every time a torpedo hits there is a probability calculation on the level of damage it will do. That allows for a huge variety of possible conditions to model complex situations.
3. As was related before me most of the ships in WWII were no more than rust buckets and usually one or two torpedoes did the trick, something modelled well (in my opinion) in GWX.

[silentwayIII]

Thanks for your explanations and opinions on the damage models NYGM & GWX use. I believe the complexity of determining how much physical damage a ship receives when hit by a torpedo is for the most part a calculated factor based on numerous variables, which in turn leads to the next phase...flooding.

I think the GWX model (s) are probaly closer to reality because they incorporate these damage variables.

Thanks,

SilentwayIII