View Full Version : [TEC] New Unit Types
In my continuing search for a way to make beach defense recon missions, I decided that making a "ship" coastal defense unit was the best choice (since the game will "lock" ships only). Second best would be an invisible ship. Anchor it in front of coast defenses, and you take a picture by locking the invisible ship.
So far, so good.
The problem? If you make an invisible ship or a coastal gun "ship" it must be set to a ship unit type---the new invisible/coastal gun unit will then show up at sea whenever a "GENERIC" call is made for that type. This is BAD. The invisible small coastal craft are no big deal, they don't show up anymore on radar/sonar, but it'd still pose a hazard, you might run into one. The coastal gun at sea... that's a problem, lol.
So I thought, can I just add a new type to Names.cfg as a definition, then use it to make new types.
You can.
I made a test class of ship, "Super Battleship" (Type16) and modded Yamato to be Type=16 instead of Type=11. She works fine. Only issue is that she doesn't show up in the recognition manual as a warship (I didn't check merchants, need to do that). (she certainly fired all her guns at me when I surfaced, lol)
Regardless of how the invisible ship thing turns out, this is very useful.
If it is possible to make a ship not appear in the rec manual, that alone is cool. Yamato was unknown for a while, no data at all. Akizuki was classed as DD UNK-1 by ONI. Very sketchy data.
Things we can do assuming this works with further testing:
1. Possibly make units not appear in the rec manual.
2. Subdivide classes to limit GENERIC pulls in a more controleld way:
Ie: Yamato becomes a Super BB, abd generic BB pulls no longer include Yamato. Yamato can then be a random pull where needed from "Super BB." The gunboats could become a new type, and we'd never see them at sea, ever, only puttering around chinese islands and ports...
3. Merchants might be "BP-cloned" into a new class or two in addition to their normal Types. I could see a "Fast Merchants" type. You could make random fast traffic where all ships can make at least 15 knots (or 19, whatever). We could isolate the huge liners from other transports to make the huge ones rare, and the other more common.
4. Maybe I can make a "special unit" type for things like invisble ships.
It's not in the rec manual at all. This is fine, actually, a really good feature.
This means Yamato could become an unknown type. You want to shoot? Pick what BB looks closest, and guestimate.
It also means that "BP-clones" won't clog up the rec manual with multiple images of the same ship. Since the dimensions are the same, you can tell the TDC it's a Large modern composite and it will hit, even if it's cloned to be a "fast" type for specialized convoys.
sneekyzeke
08-15-07, 11:56 AM
You, Sir, are a studified modder man.:know: :rock:
It's an exciting new find to ME, but I'm sure I'll soon hear "it was done many times in GWX before." :D
The plus side of not having a clue is that I'm not afraid to try really stupid stuff to see if it works (I even told a boat it was a torpedo plane inthe hopes I could make it shoot torpedos... which gives me a new idea)
None the less, I imagine there are a few of us here because of the PTO who don't know from SH3.
tater
Well Tater, all this does not sound stupid to me. It's all way beyond me. I'm a bit in awe right now to see what you can come up with. This is appriciated by many, and certainly by me. You're doing something outstanding here.
Sounds great, tater. I'd take the "super battleship" concept one step further and add it to the fleet CVs. It wasn't like the Japanese carrier force was constantly at sea, and seeing more than one Taiho is a bit of an immersion breaker.
Yeah, I might do that as well. The trick is that they will not be in the rec manual.
Actually, that's easy. I can "BP-clone" them.
Then I'll set the appearance date for the Taiho and Yamato after the war for the stock versions, and make them available when they should be for the cloned versions. The rec manual still has them, and there ya go.
This has many possible applications...
tater
You have me all excited about this tater, lol. Here are my recommendations for getting ships in the right locations and times:
-"IJN Maya" type: only one ship, and it was a conversion of the Takao
-"CV Taiho" type: as discussed above
-"CV Hiryu" type
-"CV Shokaku" type
-"Ise BB Conversion" type: did these even set out to sea?
...And of course the Yamato. Might be worth doing for all the BB classes for that matter. It would make encountering one of them a unique experience, and not a "hmm, a Kongo...sunk 5 of those already!" :roll:
You have me all excited about this tater, lol. Here are my recommendations for getting ships in the right locations and times:
-"IJN Maya" type: only one ship, and it was a conversion of the Takao
-"CV Taiho" type: as discussed above
-"CV Hiryu" type
-"CV Shokaku" type
-"Ise BB Conversion" type: did these even set out to sea?
...And of course the Yamato. Might be worth doing for all the BB classes for that matter. It would make encountering one of them a unique experience, and not a "hmm, a Kongo...sunk 5 of those already!" :roll:
Well, the BBs are already like that. If you want to limit all to a type, just use no generics.
Going overboard would defeat the purpose in that sense. the idea is to have a "generic" (meaning pulls randomly from a list) group of units. See what I mean? You can always expunge all generic pulls in the layers, that's easy. The idea is to create a meaningful generic group so you can have variability. In the case of the CVs if you did:
-"CV Taiho" type: as discussed above
-"CV Hiryu" type
-"CV Shokaku" type
You'd not have a generic CV list any more, you've effectively just broken them into ship classes. What's the benefit?
Dumping Taiho would mean you could do a GENERIC CV pull and it would be either Hiryu or Shokaku. That makes some sense.
Maya? True, but she's not distinctively a single ship, she might as well be Takao. Takao is the stand in for most CAs not in game, so Maya mixing it up a little is no big deal (Hiryu is a prefect stand-in for Unryu and sisters).
As for Ise, yeah, I can see that as well.
Remember, by changing all those ships, you still need to then add them back in to the campaigns since they will suddenly NEVER appear. It's honestly easier to explicitly place certain ships.
Hmm.
My Type16 is interesting. It acts normal at sea, but it cannot be docked.
tater
Well, the BBs are already like that. If you want to limit all to a type, just use no generics.
Going overboard would defeat the purpose in that sense. the idea is to have a "generic" (meaning pulls randomly from a list) group of units. See what I mean? You can always expunge all generic pulls in the layers, that's easy. The idea is to create a meaningful generic group so you can have variability. In the case of the CVs if you did:
-"CV Taiho" type: as discussed above
-"CV Hiryu" type
-"CV Shokaku" type
You'd not have a generic CV list any more, you've effectively just broken them into ship classes. What's the benefit?
I guess the point I'm trying to make with the fleet CVs is that they were unique units, i.e., there were only 2 Shokakus and 5-ish Hiryus, and of course only one Taiho. Sinking one of those should a big accomplishment, knowing that it's a unit unlikely or impossible to show up again in the campaign. If we're to have generic CVs, I think it should be restricted to the Akitsu Maru and Taiyo. Granted, they weren't exactly growing on trees, either, but they also weren't the big, major offensive units at the forefront of the Combined Fleet. Just my $.02. ;) I love the work you're doing with these campaign layers and will continue to use them.
There weren't many of those either. Maybe 5 IJA plane ferrys, and a similar number of CVEs of all types.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=117074
^^ my ship substitution thread (with some fleshing out and changes by nematode)
There were 13 CVs. Kaga and Akagi have to be Shokaku. Hiyo/Junyo can be Taiho, as well as Shinano. So 3 Taihos (in game), 4 Shokakus, 5 Hiryus. CVL/CVEs the total was 12, all Taiyo. Then 6 Akitsu Marus.
I see the point, however. :up:
I might have too many CV groups I guess. It's very hard, because they should be driving around, and there is no way to mark them gone. It's a tough balance.
Regardless, having 4 classes doesn't help at all since as you see, 2 CV/Es are doing the heavy lifting, Hiryu, and Taiyo. I don't use Generic CVs intil Taiho/Hiyo classes are out there. I think the late war hasn't been gutted of CVs yet, either.
Seems like the most useful would be to split out Chitose, and Akitsu since neither is really a carrier. OTOH, there is no reason to have a generic pull between an IJN unit and a IJA unit.
Really, the only way is to use the actual ships at that point I guess.
To get variety, make 2 groups, 1 with 1 kind, 1 with another, and have the groups have a low%/spawn rate.
tater
ReallyDedPoet
08-16-07, 08:05 AM
Nice work here tater, look forward to seeing it continue to develop.
RDP
Hmm.
My Type16 is interesting. It acts normal at sea, but it cannot be docked.
It cannot be docked IN THE EDITOR. Docking it in the text file works, however.
OK, that's the ONLY problem I found, and it can be worked around.
So far these guys won;t show up in the rec manual, which can actually be a feature, though I'd prefer a choice...
tater
Wonder if escort AI is as simple as changing "Escort=false" in a group to "true?"
I might try another idea. Make a new "Fast Merchant" class. BP-clone all the merchants capable of 15 knots (or whatever) to this class. Since they won't show up in the rec manual, that would be a great start---they would already be in from the "normal" class versions. This would instantly allow me to make some convoys "fast convoys" while others would be slow (limited by whatever the slowest ship is).
Another simple one would be to Move the huge liner to its own class, or in the name of compatibility with current layers, BP-clone all the more typical transports into a troop transport class, and use that in most places to keep the huge liners from being common.
Mwhahaha.
tater
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