[REL] S3D - Silent 3ditor

[DrBeast]

Screenshots of the newer version in the works look really........ addicting. :lol:

Uh-oooh...QUICK, HIDE THE EVIDENCE GUYS! :rotfl:

[skwasjer]

All just to keep Ducimus modding :arrgh!:

[DrBeast]

All just to keep Ducimus modding :arrgh!:

You're an evil man...

...that's why we like you! :lol:

[keltos01]

http://aycu37.webshots.com/image/51516/2002349149523849192_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2002349149523849192)

I don't know why i can't import chuncks anymore, it does this everytime... help !!

[skwasjer]

Hmm, there seems to be bug when 'replacing' chunk data that I've introduced since the 'debug' dialog in v0.7. I'll provide a fix with next release... You'll have to use the export with header, import with 'Insert' option until then. Thanks for notifying me!

[tater]

SOME ability to see the nodes or at least determin where they are would be so AMAZINGLY helpful.

If showing them on the ship is a problem, perhaps a simple "inspector" window that would show the X-Y, X-Z, Y-Z values as you move the cursor over the model?

That way you needn't show the nodes, but instead, by moving the mouse around the user can easily determine the rough area to place the node. Like when the "info" panel in Photoshop shows the X/Y values of the cursor.

tater

[skwasjer]

tater, it isn't a problem as in problematic to implement. The main problem will be time, as I intend to put development down for a while once model import and model viewer are complete. I have been working on this for a year, and it's time for me to start work on some other things... That doesn't mean I will quit S3D all together, but I won't be actively developing it either for at least a few months. I need a break... ;)

[UBOAT234]

Right SKW!
Right and deserved break :yep:
I hope that we do not leave right now after all this great work:sunny::sunny::sunny:

Many many thanks :up:

[THE_MASK]

thanks for the best silent hunter mod tool ever :up:

[tater]

I understand completely. :)

tater

[SquareSteelBar]

thanks for the best silent hunter mod tool ever :up:Agree...:rock:

...I won't be actively developing it either for at least a few months.Again: http://www.forosdelweb.com/images/smilies/chillando.gif

[skwasjer]

For those that have the automatic update notification disabled, or work with an older version of S3D. Let me know if the new features work out ok... Have fun!

Version v0.7.1 - Download link in main post (or follow link in footer to my site)

New



Context menu of Dat-editor extended with new menu items. The Cut/Copy/Paste items are still not implemented though. This will hopefully be done soon.
You can now add 'fully known' chunks directly from one of the menus (context or main menu). The newly created chunk will have a randomly generated id (if it supports an id field), but other than that is fully uninitialized. New chunks are inserted right after the selected chunk, but are NOT automatically parented to parent chunks.
Added a menu option to replace the current id of a chunk with a new random id. Child chunks will have their parent id fields updated as well.
Added a PayPal button. If you feel inclined, you can support development of S3D with a donation. Changed



Properties node label now displays the actual name of the controller data, instead of the generic term 'Properties'. It will also indicate whether or not it is linked to a valid controller chunk, by displaying both the parent name as well as the local name if they are different. Ie. if you link a Float properties chunk to a ShipWake controller chunk, the label would be !ShipWake! - Float, to indicate the incorrect relationship.
Changed controller definition of SH3 controller: ShipWake/StartParameters/LeftVertex/StartPosition (also for RightVertex) from Vector2 to a custom type Vector2XZ. (thanks Mikhayl) Fixes



Fixed bug that occurred when importing raw chunks that don't contain a header (thanks keltos01). This bug was introduced in v0.7.
When assigning a new 3D model id to a node, the model was not moved correctly in the tree hierarchy.
Embedded images could be parented to any chunk. They can now only be parented to materials and illumination chunks, and otherwise will always be placed in the root.
A couple of minor issues fixed.

[DrBeast]

It's up to 0.7.1 already? Wow...time to upgrade my 0.5.4 version I guess :oops:
Truly, a mere "thank you" is not enough for the outstanding tool you've created. :yep:

[Subject]

:oops: I have this "strange" thing...

When opening scene in S3D, I get this:
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z15/subject_rod/S3D.jpg
...but when opening in MiniTweaker, scene.dat is fine?

The scene.dat is from Reece's "Combined SH4 Scene for SH3 version 3" and I'm using 8k Env Scene 2.6
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=831674 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=831674)

Just a FYI... please don't run away! http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z15/subject_rod/smilies/biggrin.gif

[skwasjer]

I can tell you that that scene.dat file is corrupt. Someone screwed up the EnvSim data. S3D shows you it is unimplemented, but it just can't read some data somewhere in that controller.

[edit] I've seen this happen before and it almost always due to use of MiniTweaker with incorrect tweakfiles. The ROW mod had a similar error at one point, and some other environmental mods have produced similar errors, all due to outdated tweakfiles.
[edit2] The game is very forgiving when data is missing or incorrect, in which case it uses some sort of default or uninitialized value. S3D isn't and for a reason (otherwise, you'd never know you had an error).

[skwasjer]

Right, I'm going to let of some steam.

[Rant at the 3D industry]

So ok, close to 8-9 months ago, I started researching a good 3D finterchange format I could use for this game.

So, I have been busy reading, reading, debugging, writing test code, until 11-2007. After months of research I finally ended up with COLLADA but even that had limitations and is still giving me headaches today. And then I read the bad news that FeelingSoftware is dropping it's development on the free plugin library (which does alot, but is still incomplete). I'm at the point where I consider dropping this format as well because it just can't do what I need. I have to move on looking for alternatives (yea right!), or even just forget about multi-UV import/export. The alternative not-so-nice approach is to export models x times, where x would be the number of channels. You'd basically end up with 2 exported files for a model with 2 UV-channels. Same for import. There are other problems involved here that I desperately seek to avoid...

I've read hundreds of topics on 3D formats by now, and it boils down to a format war in the industry. Everyone is keeping their own proprietary format, and they refuse to adopt a standard which does all. The standards that are there, are hard to implement, or incomplete or not widely supported... And they are a 'standard' from a select party, not the entire industry.

The formats that do what I need for this game are so difficult, miss features or closed/undocumented it is becoming very frustrating. I have manually debugged close to a dozen or so formats by now (compare that to 2 formats: DAT/SDL). I could have finished this 6 months ago if there was a good public format available. Oh yea, or if I could buy an SDK ($$$) for one of those proprietary formats... Or ask Right Hemisphere/Feeling Software, or some other company to do it for me ($$$)...

I don't understand for the love of god, why today - 2008 - there still is not one good 3D interchange format available that everyone supports. If you know of one (mesh,material,multi-uv,bones/anims, and the needed support for Diffuse/AO/Spec/Bump maps) , PLEASE TELL ME! I've read many complaints from many other 3rd party or just 3D enthusiast developers, it's just ridiculous...

Looking into U3D format now for the past week. It looked pretty good at first, but now I see it's yet another one of those. Difficult, and missing AO/Bump support, and it may likely die as a format... Bleh.

So here I am, with a decent 3D import/export API I made myself to attach exporters to, but no good format to hook into.

:down:
[/end rant]

So, what now? Well, I do have some tricks up my sleave so I'll head back into my dark corner and start working on it, and see where we end up. I WILL finish it, ffs...

[DeepIron]

Crap! I thought your Collada export was working really well too! I've been exporting models, checking for inconsistencies and such and you've really done an incredible job. Not to mention the Collada .xml output is fantastic for post-processing and conformity checking... So...

How about .fbx? AutoDesk has a freely available SDK that I "think" might solve your multiple UV issue and others. It incorporates support for Collada 1.4, .obj and .3ds formats as well...

At the bottom of the page:
http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=8224926

They have very good SDK docs as well.

A couple of years ago I downloaded the SDK for a project that I was involved with and it looks good. Unfortunately, the project got scrapped (as they often do it seems) and I dropped my programming part of it.

[skwasjer]

Crap! I thought your Collada export was working really well too! I've been exporting models, checking for inconsistencies and such and you've really done an incredible job. Not to mention the Collada .xml output is fantastic for post-processing and conformity checking... So...

You're right on that part. Collada is a good format and it basically supports all that I need, but the support by other programs/plugins has still not matured enough. While the S3D export seems to work fine (and can be imported by most other programs), even Max fails to read in the materials properly (and thus loses connection to the map channels). Also, if I manually correct it, the model that I get back after an export from other programs is missing the data I need, and again it's the uv-channels.


How about .fbx? AutoDesk has a freely available SDK that I "think" might solve your multiple UV issue and others. It incorporates support for Collada 1.4, .obj and .3ds formats as well...

At the bottom of the page:
http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet...112&id=8224926 (http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=8224926)

They have very good SDK docs as well.

A couple of years ago I downloaded the SDK for a project that I was involved with and it looks good. Unfortunately, the project got scrapped (as they often do it seems) and I dropped my programming part of it.

I've looked into FBX a while ago (back in sept/okt) I guess, and decided not to use it although I can't remember exactly why anymore. But likely also problems with uv's. I know for a fact (by experience longer back) it's a good format, but I didn't just drop if for no reason. Maybe I'll have to revisit it...

Ah well... I probably am going for a quick-n-dirty approach first now just to get import done soon (using .obj or something). I'll then satisfy everyone's need to at least be able to import models, be it tedious to do and maybe without multi uv-support first. At least then I have some rest to try other formats. :roll:

[DeepIron]

Ah well... I probably am going for a quick-n-dirty approach first now just to get import done soon (using .obj or something). I'll then satisfy everyone's need to at least be able to import models, be it tedious to do and maybe without multi uv-support first. At least then I have some rest to try other formats.Understandable... best not to lose too much "momentum" over this... FWIW, I'd have to say .obj would be a logical choice at this point... simple format and easily converted by just about every modeler out there...

However, I'd say you're doing a smokin' job of it and I'm sorry for your setback...

BTW, I've been using MeshLab http://vcg.sourceforge.net/tiki-index.php to read and convert your .dae files. Works quite well for the geometry but doesn't load the textures out of the .dds files. I think if I separated the textures and created new .dds files, it might work...

[ref]

skwas, you've pm.

Ref

[skwasjer]

You do too :smug:

[skwasjer]

Understandable... best not to lose too much "momentum" over this... FWIW, I'd have to say .obj would be a logical choice at this point... simple format and easily converted by just about every modeler out there...

However, I'd say you're doing a smokin' job of it and I'm sorry for your setback...

What pisses me off even more is that I just should have listened to myself. Almost one year ago, just after I started this project I talked to DivingDuck (now part of GWX team), and said I was going to do it the way I described above. We talked about it and it was a good idea. It was going to be tedious because of manual postprocessing was required in a 3D studio, but it would work.

But I had so many other features and general functionality to develop, I postponed model support for a few months. Then, I said, let's find a better 3D format that does 'all'. And well, here we are now. Damn 3D industry.
If I just followed my initial idea, that quick-n-dirty approach would have been in S3D for at least 6-7 months... :roll:

The upside is, I have obj-exporter/importer code lying around from a project a few years back when I made some tools for other games (it already has features to reverse face winding, specify up-vector, and supports various other options). It will need a bit of a facelift, but it won't take very long from now. I promise... :arrgh!:

[DeepIron]

Well bro', as they say, hindsight is 100%... I've found myself in the same predicament, many times when I shoulda' listened to that "little voice"... But hey, the day we stop learning is the day they lay us on our backs and throw dirt in our faces!

On the upside, at least you have some code layin' around that could save you some further head-banging!

The community has faith in you Skwasjer and we know it's only a matter of time. :up:

[skwasjer]

So ok, the obj-model exporter is working, and am now working on sticking in the obj-importer. I will leave the DAE exporter in as well for a while at least, and maybe I can improve it later as well and eventually maybe even the dreaded dae-importer.

I've thought some more on the whole multi-uv issue and my idea to work around this (as far as importing) will be the following:

You build your model in your 3D studio or have reconstructed one from an import from the game.
You make it with multiple channels, so it renders the way you want. This can be with diffuse, AO, spec, bump, custom lights, camera's, whatever you want. You have set up materials accordingly.
Before exporting from your 3D studio, you clone the model 'n' times in the same scene, where 'n' is the number of unique map channels. You can move the clones away from the original model, and it doesn't really matter where you place them (just keep them visible).
Now, for each cloned model you 'copy' the required UV channel to the 1st channel.
The 'name' of each clone must be identical to the original, but with some sort of prefix or postfix, that I will determine. In essence, this prefix/postfix will be the identifier for S3D to ignore the geometry and only read in the UV's of that clone.
Export the scene (including the clones) to a single obj-file, usually including an .mtl.
Discard the clones, or revert to the original file.So in short, say you have a ship, with a 2 uv-channels, diffuse and AO. You end up with a scene with the original model, and a clone for the AO with the uv's copied to the first channel. Note that materials are left untouched!!!

Now, all is left is feed the obj-file into S3D. In S3D you will be given the chance to review import options and optionally choose if you want to discard one or more channels as well (so you can basically update a specific channel). Anyway, I suspect we will have an import function by the end of this month :up:

Note: this process must be done for all submodels individually (ie. for a plane, you have the fuselage, wings, tail and whatnot). This is what makes this process so tedious for the modder/3d modeller, and why I never really liked this approach using obj. I planned with Collada, to do a full dat-file export to a single file, where all models are placed at the correct location, but this can't be done properly with obj, without screwing with the vertices (no matrix support). I'm a perfectionist, always looking for the best way. So maybe, someday, I can make a better alternative work...

[sergbuto]

Maybe it will be more convenient to have input for multiple files in S3D, each for diffuse, AO, bump, etc. Say, a menu with type-in bars and Browse buttons to input the file names under diffuse, AO, bump etc headers. Then S3D will know what UV set to get from what file and can offset UV index/numbering for the DAT file. Naturelly, input files need to be prepared accordingly.

[UBOAT234]

Maybe it will be more convenient to have input for multiple files in S3D, each for diffuse, AO, bump, etc. Say, a menu with type-in bars and Browse buttons to input the file names under diffuse, AO, bump etc headers. Then S3D will know what UV set to get from what file and can offset UV index/numbering for the DAT file. Naturelly, input files need to be prepared accordingly.

WOW
Great... is possible?

[sergbuto]

Maybe it will be more convenient to have input for multiple files in S3D, each for diffuse, AO, bump, etc. Say, a menu with type-in bars and Browse buttons to input the file names under diffuse, AO, bump etc headers. Then S3D will know what UV set to get from what file and can offset UV index/numbering for the DAT file. Naturelly, input files need to be prepared accordingly.
I meant multiple OBJ files of course.

[skwasjer]

Holy crap, I just noticed one hour ago there's a Save/Load option in the UVW unwrap modifier that saves or loads uvw's from a *.uvw file. Why did nobody tell me!!! :rotfl:

It took me 30 mins to debug the file in a hex editor, change my exporter in another 30 mins and bam, instant multi UV data into Max.

Crap... :rotfl:

On a side note, this obviously won't help users that work in other 3d studio's, so my question is, are there similar functions in ie. Maya/Blender?? If yes, I prefer going this route instead of multi obj-files. All you need is one obj-file, and one uvw file (regardless of number of channels as far as I can tell now)...

I find this very humorous and annoying at the same time... So Maya/Blender users, please look for a similar function and let me know... :dead:

[skwasjer]

So ok, I implemented both ways, for Max users, they can do the 'easy' method of importing .uvw files. Then there's also the fallback option to import/export using additional .obj files per uv-channel.

Also the number of provided options should give everyone the flexibility to use any 3D studio of choice.

Export works fully, import about 95%. Then the inevitable QA checks, and then release. ETA, probably a couple of days.

http://sh4.skwas.net/s3d/objexport.jpg

http://sh4.skwas.net/s3d/objimport.jpg

[Digital_Trucker]

Congrats on getting it fingered out, Skwas:up: I'm sure that's a load off the old shoulders, eh?:D

[Anvart]

:D :up:
"С чем боролись на то и напоролись" ...
OK.
About screenshots ... It is better to use standard 3DS Max terminology (for me) ...

P.S. and may be ... http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?id=6837478&siteID=123112
http://www.softimage.com/downloads/Crosswalk/default.aspx

[skwasjer]

I do not understand Russian :ping:

@everyone

The default settings are all finetuned to use with the Max import/export settings that Anvart has posted in another thread. So basically, you don't have to change anything in Max and S3D if you have previously followed those guidelines.

I will post a walkthrough soon (when I release this version) explaining every option (and how to load the extra uv's in Max) for anyone that needs to know... I can't do this for other 3D software, but I'm sure others will.

[skwasjer]

Oh, and here's a Yamato twice as wide, with AO map. :arrgh!:

http://sh4.skwas.net/s3d/yamato_stretched.jpg

[DrBeast]

:huh: :huh: :huh:

SHE'S GONNA BLOW!!!

:rotfl:

[keltos01]

so am I ! way to go skwasjer !!:up:

[skwasjer]

ARE YOU READY FOR IT?







Well, just a bit patience :rotfl:



Seriously, I've just about finished testing v0.8, which, next to model import/export features a couple of other cool improvements. I still have to do the documentation/installer/website, but I'm happy this is finally sorted now.

I'd like to say one thing regarding this release (and more importantly, model import/export), don't 'expect' it to work. This is not to say I did a sh!tty job because I'm sure it will work in most cases, but there's hundreds and hundreds of lines of new code, that most guaranteed will contain one or more bugs somewhere. It's just to make sure everyone takes this new functionality with care, and tests their projects/customizations carefully before releasing any mods.

For that matter, consider v0.8 as a whole 'unstable'. I won't publish it either using my autoupdate feature (yet) to prevent the mass from using it (without reading this). You will be allowed to install it side by side with 0.7.x although you can't run them simulteously... This ensures you can fall back if you run into problems. So, make sure you make backups of your own modded files (which you should do regularly anyway), if you start using this release to avoid drama later.

I say this all in advance, so you all are warned... Obviously, I appreciate your feedback if you run into any issues.


I'm not sure if I'm gonna make it tonight, but I'll try. If not, no later than tomorrow. Get your models from your backup drives, and prepare to lose some sleep people... :sunny:

[Madox58]

Very cool.:up:
I hope you corrected the little thing I PM'ed you about also.
No big deal to me but..........
;)

[skwasjer]

Yes I corrected this, although I haven't tested it to death. The fix worked on the models I did try...

[Madox58]

Cool.
I know Pack3D has the same problem if you try useing certian versions.
I just did a name change to get around it.
:lol:
Just figured I'd save you some 'splaining' time.
:rotfl:

[skwasjer]

As promised. Can be installed side-by-side with v0.7.

This is a private release, only distributed through this thread. It is NOT available on my own site. Until I have some positive feedback, that is...

Now I want to see new ships fully mapped TOMORROW. And fully mapped, new interiors NEXT WEEK! OK??? :ping:

[edit] For a walkthrough see this thread: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=135177
[edit2] Please make a backup of your own mods pre v0.8. In case of problems, use that backup with v0.7.
[edit3] For obj-files, best use a high float precision, both in S3D and in 3D studio. 8 or higher at least. This ensures both accuracy and S3D can optimize the UV table better.

Version v0.8.0 - The download has been removed and replaced by a newer version. Please follow my sig links

New

Model exporter for OBJ-file format. The export dialog provides the option to export additional map channels to either .UVW file or extra .OBJ files. The .UVW files can be used with 3ds Max, specifically the 'Unwrap UVW' modifier where you can load extra UVW data. This method is more direct than using additional .OBJ files. These must be loaded separately, and the user must copy the UV-data himself from that model to the target model.
Model importer for OBJ-file format. The import dialog works almost the same as the export dialog. You can feed in the main OBJ-model, and choose to load additional UV-data from .UVW or .OBJ files.
New toolbar buttons (dat/sim/zon/val/cam/dsd) that allow you to open related files. Ie. if you have a .dat file open, and a .sim file exists, you can click the sim-button to open it directly, instead of having to do a File > Open > search file... > Click OK.
Partial support for mesh animations. You can now edit the timing of mesh animations. The actual meshes are still a todo...
Labels that are 'known nodes' now have a description explaining what they are. Ie. cfg#A15_NBB_Yamato will have a description of AA Gun 15, or cfg#P02_B5N2_Kate will have Pilot/Sailor 2. The descriptions are based on a config file [S3D path]\cfg\labels.xml, and I used regular expressions to perform the match, and get the index number. Thanks to Anvart for posting this list of 'known nodes'. Fixed

The Collada exporter failed on some objects that contain illegal path characters in their label (thanks privateer).

[miner1436]

:rock: :rock: :rock: :up: :up: :up:

[keltos01]

for Skwasjer HIP HIP HOORAY !!!!
:D :D :rock:

you're THE Man !!!
now I have to try this !!!

[kriller2]

:D Congratulations Skwasjer on getting the import / export models working!

[xristoskaiti]

How I can change the Range of planes with S3D?? :oops: I want smaller range for certain planes....:smug:

[skwasjer]

You will find the range in the .cfg file. You can edit that with a text editor, not with S3D.



@everone, I forgot about another new feature I implemented. The LipsSyncMng controller is now fully implemented, so you can change the voice acting of all the characters. I didn't have enough time to investigate all the 'mouth states' so if someone wants to test them all out in game, let me know.

You can find the LipsSyncMng controller in \Library\Phrases\*.dat files.

[xristoskaiti]

I thank for fast answer!!! :sunny:

[longam]

@everone, I forgot about another new feature I implemented. The LipsSyncMng controller is now fully implemented, so you can change the voice acting of all the characters. I didn't have enough time to investigate all the 'mouth states' so if someone wants to test them all out in game, let me know.

You can find the LipsSyncMng controller in \Library\Phrases\*.dat files.
Cool we can call this the 'Britney Spears' Feature.

Going to have to check this new version. Way to go man!

[Snaptrap]

Is it possible to get this editor as a rar or zip instead of an installer. I'm not a fan of betaware and I prefer to use it with all it's contents in one folder.

[Digital_Trucker]

Cool we can call this the 'Britney Spears' Feature.


Nah, (showing my age here), it should be the Milli Vanilli feature (or for the really young, the Hannah Montanna feature):rotfl:

[ReallyDedPoet]

it should be the Milli Vanilli feature

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/5a/Milli_Vanilli_Greatest_Hits_Album.jpg/235px-Milli_Vanilli_Greatest_Hits_Album.jpg

:88):88):88):yep:

Sorry to drag this one out, getting back on track now :D


RDP

[skwasjer]

:rotfl: That cracked me up guys...


Is it possible to get this editor as a rar or zip instead of an installer. I'm not a fan of betaware and I prefer to use it with all it's contents in one folder.
No.

[Anvart]

... and S3D can optimize the UV table better.

...

:o What is it?
Do not change original sequences of parameters in your intermediate obj-file ...
Or i have not understood you? :hmm:
... and add to topic "(... 0.5 and higher)" :D

[DeepIron]

I will leave the DAE exporter in as well for a while at least, and maybe I can improve it later as well and eventually maybe even the dreaded dae-importer. Yes, please leave this in! It's very useful for conversions and I'm using the data to feed to an ambient occlusion plugin I'm working on.

BTW, congrats on getting the .obj and import code working! :up::up::up:

Did you do a separate S3D release or does this now work in v0.7.1?

[skwasjer]

@DeepIron, you can download a 'private' v0.8 release a couple of posts back. You can install it next to v0.7.x.

@Anvart, heh, you again :smug:

I'll explain, I don't do real crazy stuff, but S3D does have to 'optimize' what it reads in from the different files. I named it 'optimize' just to keep it simple for everyone, but here's the technical reason:

Each file contains it's own list of texture coordinates (Vector2's)
Each file contains indices into that list
OBJ has string to/from float conversions (loss of precision)
UVW has binary floats (no loss of precision)The problem is, all the texture coordinates must be put into one big list in the DAT-format as you know, and they are referenced by indices. But when I import each channel, I can't just build a big list by adding all the Vector2's and indices from all the imported files. You will end up with duplicate Vector2's in most cases, and you will very soon hit the 64K limit of allowed UV indices. So S3D removes all the duplicate Vector2's, and updates the indices table accordingly. This is the whole point of the 'indices' table, to reduce file size/memory usage (instead of having unique Vector2's for each and every vertex). It's just a form of compression/optimization.

As far as my original comment (the high precision): since floats are converted to/from strings (for OBJ), you lose some precision. But .UVW files are binary, so they don't lose precision. Comparing between all these Vector2's (to find duplicates) then becomes a problem if some digits have been cut off. With higher float precision for OBJ files, there will be more matches so smaller file sizes/less
memory usage for the game, and a lesser chance of hitting the 64K limit ;)

Even when not using .UVW files but only .OBJ, optimization is still needed because, you can still have duplicates. Only you won't have a problem with precision, as long as they are the same for all files.

Anyway, like I said, it's an experimental release, and I really need feedback from 'the field'. So pleeeaaasseee try it out...

PS: this all wouldn't be necessary with formats like Collada ;)
PS2: you may wonder then, why even include float precision as an option, why not just force high precision. Well, I provide it as choice. The default settings work best in my tests, but you can always choose otherwise...
PS3: Oh and yea, S3D only exports USED Vector2's in each channel, not the whole list (aka. unused ones). There's no point in exporting all the texture coordinates if they are not used for 'a channel', and there's no guarantee you get all of them back in one file either. Hence, the optimization feature :p

[DeepIron]

@DeepIron, you can download a 'private' v0.8 release a couple of posts back. You can install it next to v0.7.x.Ah, thx. Been gone for the week and playing "catch up" again...
BTW, I don't have access to 3D MAX but I WILL be looking to work this using Wings3D...

[skwasjer]

DeepIron, can you have a look if it provides a similar function to save the UVW-data into a single (binary) file? Or even if it loads .UVW files? (doubt it, I think it's just yet another proprietary Max-only format)

It's alot easier to just import the UV-data directly into the actual model in Max, than having to copy it from model A to model B.

Anyway, I'm really interested to hear if you can finally start importing some of your models into the game :up:

[DeepIron]

DeepIron, can you have a look if it provides a similar function to save the UVW-data into a single (binary) file? Or even if it loads .UVW files? (doubt it, I think it's just yet another proprietary Max-only format)I believe your correct on that. However, W3D allows one to "break apart" a model into it's constituent objects and then UV map each one separately, a somewhat lengthy process. W3D is written in Erlang and has a very extensible plugin interface so I think I'll investigate that avenue. I might be able to automate the process somewhat... or possibly a script that will read .uvw files directly for importing...

It's alot easier to just import the UV-data directly into the actual model in Max, than having to copy it from model A to model B.No doubt about that. I'm wondering how GMAX might be employed, possibly through a Maxscript... hmmm...:hmm:

Anyway, I'm really interested to hear if you can finally start importing some of your models into the game :up:You bet. I'll be getting started here soon and keep you in the loop... :up:

[skwasjer]

First feedback : it rocks :p
I didn't try to import some "all new" models yet because I suck at this, I don't even know how to do some lightmaping or stuff. Anyway, I exported a few game models (interiors, nothing fancy), remapped some bits, resized another bit, rotated another, and everything works perfect. For this kind of task I don't even have to bother about the load/save UV channels with 3ds, that's perfect.
I'll post some type II interior pics in a few minutes :)

Thanks, that's good to hear :up:

[skwasjer]

I believe your correct on that. However, W3D allows one to "break apart" a model into it's constituent objects and then UV map each one separately, a somewhat lengthy process. W3D is written in Erlang and has a very extensible plugin interface so I think I'll investigate that avenue. I might be able to automate the process somewhat... or possibly a script that will read .uvw files directly for importing...
The UVW format is pretty simple, it took me one hour to debug it. I you decide to script it, let me know and I'll write the spec down. This will probably take me more time than it took me to debug it :rotfl:

[M. Sarsfield]

It sounds like the GWX guys are starting to look at the SH4 code and develop importing tools. Are they aware of your handiwork, skwasjer?

[skwasjer]

Sure they are. Ref and privateer already use it, and also have assisted in a couple of features, most notably the animations part :up:

[M. Sarsfield]

Cool. I consider what you've done to be a huge break through and I don't even mod - but I read a lot of the modding posts.

[Snaptrap]

:rotfl: That cracked me up guys...


Is it possible to get this editor as a rar or zip instead of an installer. I'm not a fan of betaware and I prefer to use it with all it's contents in one folder.
No.

That's ok, I did it myself. No more installer.

[skwasjer]

:damn:
Don't come to me when it screws up your game, mods or just doesn't run. You are taking some required steps away, both during installation and uninstallation, not to mention when I have updates available you are going to run into problems. Hell, if it does run, you shouldn't trust that it runs as 'designed'. Stop screwing with the installer, I made it for a reason... :nope:

[UBOAT234]

:sunny::sunny::sunny: THANKS SKW :sunny::sunny::sunny:

A very good work :up:

Many many thanks!

[skwasjer]

Hi UBOAT234, let me know if you run into problems. It's still a 'first release', so make sure to back up your work. Have fun!

[skwasjer]

Yes please :up:

Some basic questions:
- Did you export it from the .dat using S3D as well?
- Has it been previously imported with Pack3D?

Give me the relevant chunk index as well so I know which one to look at...


[edit] I've already seen two other issues, so I'll update the importer/exporter and provide an update somewhere tonight.

[skwasjer]

Thanks, I'm on it! :smug:

[edit] Ok, internally the texture coordinates were not optimized for the main obj-file, only for subsequent channels and this caused that error. Your test.obj file contains 14018 texture coordinates but is not optimized (duplicates removed), this can be reduced to 1889. If this was the original model (from Ubi), then they haven't optimized it real good ;) If this was imported with Pack3D earlier, maybe it was responsible for it.

I will let the optimization feature run on the main model as well in next release. I just did that locally and I got the same number of texcoords (1889). In the mean time, you can try if your 3D studio can remove the duplicates.

[keltos01]

i tried to replace the 9dx2 3d model with the sen toku one, it didn't work and I got this screen :
http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/1202/tokenvv1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
[URL=http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=501&i=tokenvv1.jpg][IMG]http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/1202

[skwasjer]

Yes, I'm aware of this, but thanks for the heads up... :up:

The current release contains 3 bugs, which I'm fixing as we speak ;)

[Rubini]

Hi skwasjer,

First of all thanks again by S3D!

I just should like to comments some issues about S3d that i noticed after one month of intense use of it.

1. The search function (for id on all files) don´t find any object id reference, what sometimes is crucial to the work. Seems that it only find main Ids/parent ids/3d models ids. So, this could be a simple useful addition to mod work.

2. The remap (clone function): it works well and in a enough way to clone things. It don´t "remap" object reference ids. It's understable that this could end in troubles sometimes...but frequently the objects are at the same file and after we use the remap function we will lose all it´s references. In the Water stream SH3 mod for example I use 54 objects references in the same .dat. I need to clone all this stuff for each different uboat...so this single absent feature (remap correctly the objects references that are in the same file) brings me a very huge manual work. This is only a example on how this could be very useful if implemented. If you can, open the 7c .dat from the Water stream mod and take a look on the more than 50 controllers and how each one refer (createobject) to an unique waterparticle that are at the botton of the same file and you will understand the amount of manual work that could be automatized by S3D.

Hopes that this could help you in make the S3D yet better.

Thanks in any advice!:up:

Rubini.

[skwasjer]

Hi Rubini, correct, both the search and remap function don't look inside the controllers. The main reason was that it was too difficult at the time I implemented those features and there's some other things to consider (it may change id's that you don't want!). But I'll see what I can do in the future, the remap function most likely will get more parameters so you can pick and choose... I'm also considering a find/replace function which takes a bit more labor than remap, but at least you see what happens.

Thanks for the feedback :up:

[Rubini]

Hi Rubini, correct, both the search and remap function don't look inside the controllers. The main reason was that it was too difficult at the time I implemented those features and there's some other things to consider (it may change id's that you don't want!). But I'll see what I can do in the future, the remap function most likely will get more parameters so you can pick and choose... I'm also considering a find/replace function which takes a bit more labor than remap, but at least you see what happens.

Thanks for the feedback :up:

Thanks for the reply.:up:

The search function is just innocent, you can add an option to search also for id references without any problem i guess

About the remap, yes i cloned a lot since PACK3d!:D and i now exactly what you means. Just to reaffirm, my suggestion is focused in extend the remap function only for ids references that are on the same file, because this a safety action. Just this will adds a lot for remap function!:up:

[skwasjer]

Mostly obj-import fixes...

I still keep this a private (experimental) release only for subsim visitors, until I'm positive the import/export functionality is stable enough. Thanks for testing it. YOU are helping S3D getting better!

Have fun!

Version v0.8.1 - The download has been replaced by a newer version. Please follow my sig links.
New

Added a couple of menuitems to the 'Insert new chunk' menu. Improved

The import dialog now has a progress indicator.
The OBJ-importer no longer accepts quads and polygons. It couldn't handle them anyway, but it didn't warn you and this would cause problems to the game. Please triangulate your model before importing.
The OBJ-importer no longer accepts meshes that are partially textured. It may actually be smarter to remove the 'import texture coordinates' option all together. But ok, maybe later. Fixed

Fixed OBJ-import bug 'An entry with the same key already exists'. This was caused by OBJ-files that contained duplicate texture coordinates. S3D already fixed this for map channel 2 and up, but didn't for the first channel. It does now.
Fixed OBJ-import bug 'Unexpected token encountered'. Somehow I goofed up, as the importer failed to recognize the 'o' token. Whooops!
Fixed OBJ-import bug for object files containing multiple meshes. S3D removed all the meshes it didn't need, but left the then unused materials untouched. This caused incorrect material indices to be saved into the .DAT.

[Rubini]

Downloading!:up:

[Snaptrap]

Quick question. Which lines in your editor apply to the sub and u-boat shells under the Shells.zon file? I just need to be sure.

[skwasjer]

How's this for a new feature! Very useful to check if the uv data is imported correctly :ping:


http://sh4.skwas.net/s3d/mapchannels.gif

[DeepIron]

That looks very much like the occlusion map base... :up:

[Snaptrap]

Hmmm. Guess it's back to Hex Workshop. No point in asking questions about this program.

[Anvart]

@Anvart, heh, you again :smug:
...

:D
Sorry ...
My idea is very simple...
After export of object and its import back into dat-file (without changes) i should get an original code ...

[skwasjer]

Anvart, it is not feasible to do so, and from a technical standpoint there's no reason why this should be done nor is there a benefit to gain.

Bottom line is there is no point in making sure the import function reorders the uv's exactly like the original. If the function is procedurally correct (aka. if the model renders correctly), then I don't care if the ordering is different (and in fact in some cases better!). The result is what matters.

And another thing. I've done tests where I didn't optimize the export either (yes, the export is optimized as well). The result? Some 3D studio's strip all the unused data and reorder the tables as well. So I don't do anything crazy, see?

I know what I have done, and why I have done it. Time for you to trust me. ;)

(this doesn't mean there could be bugs in the whole implementation, but that's a different thing)

[keltos01]

hi (again..), I'm not gonna post a screenshot this time, it's the same I had yesterday with S3D 0.8.
I import a hull model in 3DS max, the Jyunsen B Hull, import the 627a sub hull, take the texture from the 627a, put it in the mat library (M in 3ds), unwrap the uvmaps, paste the texture to the Jyunsen B hull, delete the 627a, export the Jyunsen B to the obj format.

Then open S3D, open my 9DX2.dat file, select the 3D model, right click, 3d model import, select the Jyunsen B hull in the 3DS export directory, and BAM!

UNEXPECTED TOKEN ENCOUNTERED:damn:

I posted my obj file and the 3DS file here : Hull_Jyunsen_B.rar


http://hosted.filefront.com/keltos01/

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/8938/jyunsenbhulllc5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[swdw]

Skwasjer, having been on the alpha team a beta tester a number of years ago for a commercial 3D program (Real3D), I have to say the work you're doing is incredible.

Considering all of the coding is being done by one person, the progress and results deserve nothing but respect for your hard work. You are doing one bang up job!

Yeah- there are issues that need to be dealt with along the way, but that's because of the incredible complexity of what you're doing. Keep up the good work and know us modders appreciate everything you do.

Thanks and thanks again!

[ref]

How's this for a new feature! Very useful to check if the uv data is imported correctly :ping:


http://sh4.skwas.net/s3d/mapchannels.gif

Nice feature Skwasjer, didn't have time to DL the new version, but I've a suggestion (in case it isn't implemented :up: ) It should be usefull for texture artists an export function for the tmap's display you implemented, as they can be used as an overlay on photoshop (or any other image editor) to facilitate the paint proccess, specially the main TMAP.

Ref

[swdw]

Nice feature Skwasjer, didn't have time to DL the new version, but I've a suggestion (in case it isn't implemented :up: ) It should be usefull for texture artists an export function for the tmap's display you implemented, as they can be used as an overlay on photoshop (or any other image editor) to facilitate the paint proccess, specially the main TMAP.

Ref

Agree 100% with this suggestion!

[skwasjer]

Thank you, I appreciate it swdw. Indeed this program is coming along quite nicely. It does get more and more complex, but luckily I'm used to more complexer projects. :smug:


Ref, that's a great idea. I hadn't thought of that yet. I just coded it yesterday real quickly to verify if the imports were correct, and haven't really thought of other benefits/features yet.
I'll add a function to save it as a transparent png. Any suggestions for the wireframe color? Maybe add as an option? I guess it would also be handy if one could specify the preferred size...

Keltos01, I will have a look at your model in an hour or so and let you know what is up. Need to browse the boards first as I just got here from a days work... :up:

[jimbob]

Hmmm. Guess it's back to Hex Workshop. No point in asking questions about this program.

Sure, you could go all Hex on the files but I'll give you a tip:

Id's and parent Id's.
;)

Also, we got search in teh forums, punch in the filename you're
interested and it's there. Also searching word [TEC] works.

...or, maybe this link (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=132253&highlight=shells.zon) has teh info...



hmmm, have fun.

:arrgh!:

[skwasjer]

I'm not the guy to really answer such questions anyway. I know my way around the game but the guys actually modding those files know a hell of a lot more about them then me. :arrgh!:

PS: I missed that post...

[skwasjer]

hi (again..), I'm not gonna post a screenshot this time, it's the same I had yesterday with S3D 0.8.
I import a hull model in 3DS max, the Jyunsen B Hull, import the 627a sub hull, take the texture from the 627a, put it in the mat library (M in 3ds), unwrap the uvmaps, paste the texture to the Jyunsen B hull, delete the 627a, export the Jyunsen B to the obj format.

Then open S3D, open my 9DX2.dat file, select the 3D model, right click, 3d model import, select the Jyunsen B hull in the 3DS export directory, and BAM!

UNEXPECTED TOKEN ENCOUNTERED:damn:

I posted my obj file and the 3DS file here : Hull_Jyunsen_B.rar


http://hosted.filefront.com/keltos01/


Keltos01, you have not followed my guideline precisely. I can understand you've overlooked it though. It's real easy, export the model again, and make sure to disable the Smooth groups checkbox! Do this, and it imports fine with S3D.

Check out the screenshots with the settings here:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=135177

[ref]

Thank you, I appreciate it swdw. Indeed this program is coming along quite nicely. It does get more and more complex, but luckily I'm used to more complexer projects. :smug:


Ref, that's a great idea. I hadn't thought of that yet. I just coded it yesterday real quickly to verify if the imports were correct, and haven't really thought of other benefits/features yet.
I'll add a function to save it as a transparent png. Any suggestions for the wireframe color? Maybe add as an option? I guess it would also be handy if one could specify the preferred size...

Keltos01, I will have a look at your model in an hour or so and let you know what is up. Need to browse the boards first as I just got here from a days work... :up:

I use maya's uvmapper template export to do the same and usually I pick a pure green color (r=0,g=255,b=0) as it's unlikelly to be used in a texture, for the size I recomend the same as the main texture so it just a matter of copy/paste in photoshop without the need to resize it.

Ref

[keltos01]

:oops: uh, yep skwasjer you were right:up: Easier to blame it on the devellopper when I was trying to rush the import I guess ;)

Did what you said here above (olympian right?) :

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/8971/sentokucd5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

the whole texture isn't there yet, maybe I missed something on the exporting as well, but here it is replacing the hull of my Jyunsen B type, untill I import the real hull and tower of course !

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/7218/periforwarsye0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I can't say how grateful I am for your program, and advice, I can tell you're often there for us:sunny:

[keltos01]

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/8334/exportyf4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

are those settings all right to export from 3ds ?
do we need to (re)wrap the uvmaps ?
am I missing layers, cause the ship looks better in 3ds than in game?
thanks

[skwasjer]

I use maya's uvmapper template export to do the same and usually I pick a pure green color (r=0,g=255,b=0) as it's unlikelly to be used in a texture, for the size I recomend the same as the main texture so it just a matter of copy/paste in photoshop without the need to resize it.

Ref
I thought about it and I think it's best to give everyone the freedom to choose. It's a bit more work for me, but I don't mind. Heh, lol, you say copy/paste, which gives me the idea to just copy the damn bitmap to the clipboard... let's make that another option! :rotfl:

[skwasjer]

are those settings all right to export from 3ds ?
do we need to (re)wrap the uvmaps ?
am I missing layers, cause the ship looks better in 3ds than in game?
thanks

You should bump the # of digits to 6 or more. S3D doesn't use material colors now (diffuse, specular, etc), but maybe in the future so then that setting must be ok. Other than that, those settings are fine.

In the last .rar you posted, I didn't find the texture so I couldn't test it with it. Where can I find it?

[keltos01]

just uploaded them, you might need to rename them according to the name of the sub though. cheers

ps in the game there were still the aft tubes of the 9xd2 model on top of the sen toku deck ????

[Snaptrap]

Thanks for the help, skwasjer. I do need a bit more though. I know very little about subs, but I'm wondering if there's a way to allow the sub to take turns at 100kts without rolling or diving?

Also, is there a setting that I can alter to make the subs slow down quicker when traveling at high speeds?

[jimbob]

Thanks for the help, skwasjer. I do need a bit more though. I know very little about subs, but I'm wondering if there's a way to allow the sub to take turns at 100kts without rolling or diving?

Also, is there a setting that I can alter to make the subs slow down quicker when traveling at high speeds?

You're asking about the game mechanics, not about the editor which this thread is about.

There is no "settings" in the editor that makes your sub go Pew Pew Pew,
answers to those kind of questions are in other threads.
ie. the information you seek is not in the editor, most likely it is about
what file in the game does what and edit those with the editors available.
Cfg files can be edited with Notepad and graphichs with Paint.Net,
data files with S3ditor etc...

Henceforth;
It seems you're looking a way to tweak your sub to go ludacrisous speeds etc,
which for me looks like maybe you need some cheats. (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=134775&highlight=dive+speed)

Also, there has been talks about "sub on rail (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=134217&highlight=rails)" which might give answers on how the sub swims about.

About the diving speeds etc.
Im not sure how to edit those but I suppose if you look though
files in the subs directories, there's oughta be values some where to edit.
Maybe not precisely about dive speed but some stuff that affects the speed
to dive.

The search in these forums does work, allthought its not perfect.
99% of the info I need to find its in these forums, not only in Modworksops, thought.


Have fun.

:arrgh!:

[Snaptrap]

You're asking about the game mechanics, not about the editor which this thread is about.

There is no "settings" in the editor that makes your sub go Pew Pew Pew,
answers to those kind of questions are in other threads.
ie. the information you seek is not in the editor, most likely it is about
what file in the game does what and edit those with the editors available.
Cfg files can be edited with Notepad and graphichs with Paint.Net,
data files with S3ditor etc...

Henceforth;
It seems you're looking a way to tweak your sub to go ludacrisous speeds etc,
which for me looks like maybe you need some cheats. (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=134775&highlight=dive+speed)

Also, there has been talks about "sub on rail (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=134217&highlight=rails)" which might give answers on how the sub swims about.

About the diving speeds etc.
Im not sure how to edit those but I suppose if you look though
files in the subs directories, there's oughta be values some where to edit.
Maybe not precisely about dive speed but some stuff that affects the speed
to dive.

The search in these forums does work, allthought its not perfect.
99% of the info I need to find its in these forums, not only in Modworksops, thought.


Have fun.

:arrgh!:

I already know all that stuff. I just don't know about naval lingo such as draught. This is why I'm asking someone who might understand what certain settings could do to help.

[LukeFF]

Thanks for the help, skwasjer. I do need a bit more though. I know very little about subs, but I'm wondering if there's a way to allow the sub to take turns at 100kts without rolling or diving?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/LukeFF/facepalm.jpg

[UBOAT234]

There are many variables that contribute. Not only in .sim file...
Even in the government of the submarine, to the level of command.
And it is very long to explain.
And 'need for all perhaps get down to work to make a nice tutorial. Maybe create a topic that serves new and old of the trade and manufactoring :know:
Looking at the differences between the various software.
Each could make its contribution with the experience gained in that particular software 3DS MAX, Maya, Wings 3D, Milkshape ecc.
It is perhaps necessary to bring together all points...
And perhaps write a nice manual for this great software that is a jewel of simulation with the extraordinary ability of 3Ditor :up:
I think that here in this forum, there are many who would like to do so. We understand the commitment and the profusion that they have lent to the
brilliant achievement of 3Ditor... and on the first the great Skwasjer
But even the many others who have worked before and during...

I know that takes a long time and dedication, but a great software without a great tutorial and a nice manual serves only to a few and the glory would be small.
Seeing the time and effort spent so far, an additional effort would really the pleasure of all those who have followed.
Many thanks to ALL :sunny::sunny::sunny:

I can not understand everything mentioned, precisely because of language and requires much time I read everything, otherwise I would have given my contribution, day and night. As I have done in the past for SH3.
I remember entire nights in front of the monitor, with open the Hex Editor :damn:
(With the language and the difficulties that we are jumping from one topic to another...)

All this only to encourage its implementation and sorry for my bad English :oops:

[Anvart]

...
I know what I have done, and why I have done it. Time for you to trust me. ;)
...

Yes i do ...
It's my hardcore (hexedit) habit ... to have in 3DS Max the same sequences of parameters as in an original file ... it allows to make some changes in 3D models by simple mathematical methods ...

[Snaptrap]

I had another friend help me out with the terminology used in this game. It made the settings allot more clear. I got the effect I wanted.

The great thing about this editor is that it makes my life easier than direct Hex editing.

[keltos01]

opened the jyunsen B hull model, the sen toku as well, pasted the skin from the sen to the j B, exported the jb with no ill effect, imported it in lieu of the type 18 hull, tried to save and this appeared :
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/6607/grrret2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
any idea ?

[skwasjer]

It's my hardcore (hexedit) habit ... to have in 3DS Max the same sequences of parameters as in an original file ... it allows to make some changes in 3D models by simple mathematical methods ...
I see... It's hard to break a habit, I can understand that. :smug: Well, one thing you can do is still use the .obj files of Pack3D, and then just use the extra .uvw files from S3D. At least then you have the same data in Max. But it is some more work to do the exports. But you will still need S3D for import, in which case you are still at the mercy of my optimization code, unfortunately.;)


@all, as S3D evolves, it doesn't only become more complex for me to maintain, but obviously I also keep strugling keeping it as easy as possible to use for you. Some say it's very easy, but most of them have witnessed the development from day one. For newcomers, it IS still a complex tool even if it was for the game structure itself. You can potentially break the game easier with S3D than with a hex editor, because more people can play around with it, who would otherwise be scared away by a hex editor.

That said, I do intend to work on actual documentation in the future but my biggest problem is I am a developer, not a writer. And from personal experience, no developer should write documentation of their own software. They simply are too close to the product to be able to write good documentation. I am also no real modder, so for me it's hard to make examples as I don't have any real material to work with.

Still, I do intend to write more down. I am pretty sure there are even a couple of features or tricks most of you aren't even aware of. However, I also hope some of the more 'experienced' users can use some of their time to help others out by writing up some tutorials/basics, walkthroughs (for example import/export in the different 3D studio's, I've only covered Max myself), webcasts, etc. perhaps based on one of their own (mini)mods.

[skwasjer]

opened the jyunsen B hull model, the sen toku as well, pasted the skin from the sen to the j B, exported the jb with no ill effect, imported it in lieu of the type 18 hull, tried to save and this appeared :

any idea ?

Hmm, 3 vertices doesn't seem right now does it? I wonder what went wrong... As per usual I will need the model files and the dat file to test it.

Hey keltos01, thanks for finding these bugs, you've reported most of them and help me make S3D better :up:

[swdw]

All this only to encourage its implementation and sorry for my bad English :oops:
This always makes me smile.

Most Americans can't even speak or write a second language. I think you should be congratulated for putting your words in English. It may not be perfect english, but the effort you put into writing your thoughts in english deserves praise. Thank you for the time and effort:up:

Skwasjer, although S3D is associated with several files, I have this problem. Clicking on the file directly (like a .sim file) causes S3D to open, but the file is not loaded into S3D. The files are correctly associated.

Is this a bug or just something you haven't implemented yet?

[keltos01]

the .dat file was the one in the IJN Jyunsen B beta 3.2 18 sen toku I put for download, it is the basic typ 18.dat,
the jyunsen B hull is found as well in my download page along with other stuff, I think the non textured one is there (japsubhull.obj) in a rar file.


http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/6157/toweropenerrorcopiekq7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
I had this trying to re open my new jap tower, with the new 3d object of the Jyunsen B tower so i so that I could id the german tower parts and edit them out, woops !
Jyunsen B thread :
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=134119

[skwasjer]

Mikhayl, from the looks you have not (re)exported the 2nd uv map from Max. I see it still has 9171 uv mappings. All the other maps (diffuse, 3rd, 4th) now have the correct number: 6240. Since I don't have the original model I can't export it myself and test it but I know this is the cause of the CTD because S3D now basically writes illegal data.

I will make sure to catch this 'data error' on import with an error message in next releases...

[skwasjer]

the .dat file was the one in the IJN Jyunsen B beta 3.2 18 sen toku I put for download, it is the basic typ 18.dat,
the jyunsen B hull is found as well in my download page along with other stuff, I think the non textured one is there (japsubhull.obj) in a rar file.


http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/6157/toweropenerrorcopiekq7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
I had this trying to re open my new jap tower, with the new 3d object of the Jyunsen B tower so i so that I could id the german tower parts and edit them out, woops !
Jyunsen B thread :
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=134119

Please provide me with a direct link to the files that are directly related to the problem. I don't want a whole package containing an entire (mini)mod because I may be looking for problems in the wrong place. Also, you may have changed just one thing in one of those files, and by not uploading them and 'thinking' they are the same, I may be looking for a problem that's not there.

I am saying this because the last files I checked yesterday worked fine here.

[skwasjer]

If you need the original model you can pick the one in the .dat, it's the unmodified/working one.
I'm pretty sure that I exported that 2nd uv, anyway I retried in another way :

In S3D, I exported the working model again, and imported in 3dsmax. When I'm done with the import I have the unwrap modifier active and the 4th channel. So, to make sure I don't forget anything, I click "edit", select the objects I want to delete, and delete its UVs, then save as "uv4". Then switch to channel 3, "edit", select objects, delete UVs, save as uv3. Then same for uv2, so now I'm back to channel 1, select object, delete UVs. then I delete the unwrap modifier, "break vertices" on my "editable mesh" and finally delete the object, and export it.
When I import it in S3D I have this :

Now tell me if I'm being a pain, and I'll stick to the number crunching part :D

No pain, no gain.

Anyway, I see the problem a bit although I don't exactly know all the steps you did (wrong).

The process should be:

Import obj into Max.
Add unwrap modifier, set to channel 2, load uv2 file.
Add unwrap modifier, set to channel 3, load uv3 file.
Add unwrap modifier, set to channel 4, load uv4 file.
Optionally, collapse the modifiers.
Delete the geometry with an 'Edit Mesh' modifier.
Add ONE unwrap modifer, reuse it to save each channel seperately (2, 3, 4)
Export obj file.
Delete the last (temp) unwrap modifierNote that you can't reuse the unwrap modifier to load all the uv channels. You are simply replacing the previously loaded data and end up with only the last one! I say this because your last 2 maps were identical, and default!

I replayed this for you, and it works :up:
This package contains the model I exported from Max using above steps.

http://sh4.skwas.net/media/mikhayl_new.rar

PS: I didn't break the vertices, I just added an 'Edit mesh' modifier and selected the faces, and hit delete...
PS2: the new release its UV map preview function will help you detect problems. I used it here locally and immediately saw there were incorrect maps exported from Max.

[keltos01]

Add unwrap modifier, set to channel 2, load uv2 file.

how do you do that ??
I unwrap the modifiers, select the hull, click the material editor, paste the texture to the hull, and it doesn't even fit right...

[skwasjer]

My post was just a short version of the walkthrough I posted. There I explain how you add the modifiers.

This is the excerpt, notice the bold part:


To add extra UV-data to the model do the following steps, for EACH next map channel:
Select the imported model
Click the menu Modifiers > UV Coordinates > Unwrap UVW. A new 'Unwrap UVW' modifier is added to the modifier stack.
In the parameters of the new modifier, change the map channel to the index you are about to add. If you have previously exported -uv2, set map channel 2, etc.

http://sh4.skwas.net/manual/models/3-unwrapUVW.jpg
After changing the map channel, you will be asked:

http://sh4.skwas.net/manual/models/4-confirmUVW.jpg

Click 'Yes'
Now click the 'Load' button, just above the field where you changed the map channel. You can now select the .UVW file that you want to load into this map channel.

[keltos01]

Skwasjer, I got the same screen as I had with the conning tower when I tried to save the .dat, I loaded the 18.dat, selected the 18 3d model, imported my hull, clicked save : it says a lot of stuff when I try to save my dat file. I uploaded a rar with the original 18.dat, the corrupted one, the hull. obj and the mtl file.

http://www.mediafire.com/?x3wh4mfzg15

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/3619/problemcopieoc3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[skwasjer]

Keltos, the obj file is missing texture coordinates so it's bound not to work... Unfortunately, S3D doesn't check for this (yet) so you indeed run into a crash. I will fix this, but it doesn't solve your problem. The obj-file is still incorrect for the game. Using the files you provided I can't test anything further.

Please take a deep breath, and read my walkthrough again (I've added a link in my footer). It's a long read, but you probably don't follow it exactly (same as Mikhayl :88)). If you have disabled for instance the 'Export texture coordinates' in Max then you will be in trouble, and there are a few other things to keep in mind. It is a very tricky process so please check out all the screenshots I provided and make sure your settings are the same. Then follow the steps one at the time. Read each step a couple of times and make sure you understand it. If you don't, then ask specific questions about that in that thread.

Maybe I should do a video tutorial...

As far as texture mapping a model, I can't help you much on the 3dsMax front though. I know as much as I've said here out loud. I am not a 3D artist and know only so much about 3D software... So I hope you can get some help with this from some of the other folks around here. Keep the faith and keep trying!

PS: If you get the object rendered properly in 3dsMax, then send me the .MAX file, not .obj files. Then I can see if I myself can get the file properly exported from Max and imported in the game.



@all, I've come to the conclusion a couple of options in the dialogs are really not so useful and may complicate things or cause problems, so I will probably take them out soon to make it a bit easier (foolproof).

[Madox58]

@Skwasjer

Here's a quick suggestion you may consider.
Using Mikhayl's flag tutorial as the example.

To do the single flag he deletes things one by one.
Time consumeing.

How about being able to hold the shift key down while dragging so you can select
multiples?

Shift + left Mouse button and drag selects all the thihgs you want to delete
or export.

I'm still faster with hex to do this sort of stuff!
:lol:

Catch me if you can!
;)

[skwasjer]

It has been suggested before :smug:

In tree mode, multiselection is not supported, nor will I make it so. The biggest problem is the native windows treeview does not support multiselection so I would have to code a custom treeview control completely by myself. Too much work and not worth my time.

The list mode does support multiselection though, this was my 'reply' to the request. My tip would be, in tree mode, find the first and last index that you want to keep in the file, then switch to list mode, and select all the nodes at once using ctrl/shift etc., and then delete... I've done this many times myself, and you can do it in a couple of secs.

I'm sure you can do this faster in hex, but I want to see you insert a 3D model with tmaps from 4 obj-files in hex. I'll wait for a few days, let me know! :88):smug:

[edit] As far as tutorials are concerned, sometimes it's better to just keep the explanation simple, which sometimes involves more handwork. If every trick or shortcut has to be written down, tutorials become too lengthy and/or with too many side paths and are more difficult to understand... It's always hard to determine what is the best way to explain things. This is also true for S3D, there is no 'set' way to achieve things. One can do certain things in more than one way in most cases...

[Madox58]

:rotfl:

Well,
I have been properly chagrined.
:yep:

Now, what did I do with that animation info I was gonna send you?
:hmm:
;)

[skwasjer]

I've already retrieved it from your harddisk using S3D... :rotfl:

:arrgh!:

[Madox58]

:rotfl:
Now you know someone out there is gonna FREAK out don't you?
:o
Besides,
it's not on the HD.
;)
Tis in my knoggin!!!
:lol:

[skwasjer]

lol, let the paranoia begin!!!

:sunny:

[edit] I've always wondered why nobody complained about the autoupdate feature. WHAT ARE YOU SENDING TO YOUR SERVER?? Nothing... YEA RIGHT!!

[Madox58]

Well,
if you were watching HALF the stuff I do?
You'd wonder why I was still walking around without a straight jacket
and a thorazine drip attached to my arm!!
:rotfl:

[skwasjer]

We are not so different privateer ;)

Hey Mikhayl, I hope you don't mind, but I just ordered a new TV, thanks bud! :arrgh!:

lol, I better stop now :rotfl:

[Madox58]

:hmm:
What do you guys want with a TransVestite?
:88)
:rotfl:

[keltos01]

hi !
here is is finally : the Jyunsen B coning tower textured:
now I need your help to have a .obj file I can use to replace the 3d in my coning tower :D , the textures are in the file. The tower is at the right coordinates to fit on the Jyunsen B hull, it might look a bit too forward on a 9dx2 hull like in my beta 3 mod.

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/6866/jyunsenbtowercopieeu6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


download link :
http://www.mediafire.com/?t0c9zx215z6

[swdw]

Skwasjer

I get the following error when S3D goes to look for an update. I believe this happens when it hasn't been granted access by the firewall. I'd forgot to set the permissions after installing 0.8.1

After this happens, I can reload the program with no errors.

Sorry, there is no crash dump file associated with this that I could post.

http://www.kickinbak.com/posts/S3D%20error.jpg

[skwasjer]

Thanks swdw, I'll have a look...

Keltos, I can't help you much, 3D modelling is not my field of expertise. All I know is you must collapse the modifier stack (so keep a backup of the max file), and then use an 'Unwrap uvw' modifer to save each uvw channel (if you have more than just the diffuse) as described in my walkthrough. And finally export the actual obj file. Then you can import it in S3D.

And you have to set up the materials in S3D according to what you have done in Max as well.

I noticed you have around 10 materials applied, which seems to much. In this case you also have to bake the current maps into one or two new textures, to simplify the model. How this is done in Max, I don't know.
Remember that if you don't, you must define 10 materials in S3D, and the game must load all 10 textures, which will put a heavy strain on the system/gfx. So better reduce this to 1 or 2 max for diffuse, and a couple more for AO/spec/bump.

[DrBeast]

...after installing 0.8.1...


Jeez...one can't even go on vacations! It's been about 10 days since I downloaded the last (I thought) 0.7.1 version, and now it's up to 0.8.1?!? Pity a guy who doesn't have internet at home and thus can't use the auto-update feature! :rotfl:
Damn skwasjer, you're FAST! :up:

ETA and totally OT, but on what grounds exactly did I make it to the Thanks list? :huh: If it's only because I've stated the obvious, i.e. that this is THE best modding tool for SH4, then that list should be pages upon pages long, cause there are LOTS of us who share that sentiment! :D
ETA #2: Oh well, I can't use the auto-update, but at least my money is safe! :rotfl:

[skwasjer]

Hehe, the v0.8 branch uptil now are sortof private releases, because it features some new functionality (model import), and needs 'subsim approval' ;) That's why you won't see it through the update checker. But it will be made 'public' in a couple of days with v0.8.2, so the update round continues :ping:

As far as the thank you list, yea, I pretty much copy in everyone that has suggested something, provided info, bugreports, the least is enough. I try to update it every couple of releases... Remember, no S3D if there are no customers, I owe it's existance to the users, so pat yourself on the back as well :smug:

[DrBeast]

Hehe, the v0.8 branch uptil now are sortof private releases, because it features some new functionality (model import), and needs 'subsim approval' ;) That's why you won't see it through the update checker. But it will be made 'public' in a couple of days with v0.8.2, so the update round continues :ping:

As far as the thank you list, yea, I pretty much copy in everyone that has suggested something, provided info, bugreports, the least is enough. I try to update it every couple of releases... Remember, no S3D if there are no customers, I owe it's existance to the users, so pat yourself on the back as well :smug:

Ah, I see...so, maybe by the time I'm back from my vacations, it'll be up to v.0.9.9 or something! :rotfl:
Keep up the AMAZING job, is all I have to say! :up:

[skwasjer]

Skwasjer, although S3D is associated with several files, I have this problem. Clicking on the file directly (like a .sim file) causes S3D to open, but the file is not loaded into S3D. The files are correctly associated.

Is this a bug or just something you haven't implemented yet?
Forgot to reply to this. It's a S3D bug, and I've just fixed it. It worked in older releases...

[skwasjer]

This will be the last release for a while unless something really cricital comes up. I am a bit tired after more than one year working on this, and now that the most important features are finally in, it's time to take a break for a month or more. Rest assured, this is not the final release, I am still aiming for v1.0 which should include a couple of other interesting features (model preview, zones editor, animations). For the next period, I will focus on some other stuff I'd like to do for this game, like the SH4HQ program which will become quite important with the PTO/ATO mods in the near future, some mod related stuff, some documentation and tutorials etc.

I hope the model import functionality will trigger a new modding mania the next months. I will surely follow all the progress you guys make! Have fun :up:


Please uninstall any previous release before installing.

Version v0.8.2 - Download (http://sh4.skwas.net/downloads.aspx)
New


Added UV map preview function to view embedded UV data for each map channel. Very usefull to verify if an import was done succesfully. You can customize the wire frame color under menu Tools > Settings, and the size of the map in the panel next to the UV preview window.
The UV map can also be saved as a PNG file. This file can then be used as an overlay in your favorite paint software, to aid in modifying textures (thanks ref for idea) Changed


Removed the 'Export texture coordinates' and 'Export normals' option from the obj-export dialog. Both are now enabled by default. They are removed because there was no point in having them, the data should always be exported.
Removed the 'Import texture coordinates' option from the obj-import dialog. It is now enabled by default. It is removed because there was no point in having this option, the texture coordinates should always be imported. Improved


Quite a few error checks on obj-imports and exports, and more meaningful error messages. There are also a couple of other minor improvements. Thanks to the subsim members for testing these functions and throwing all the errors they ran into at me ;) Fixed


Extended the time before the auto update check is performed after starting S3D from 1 sec. to 10 seconds. Also improved some of the error handling. I hope this solves the sometimes occuring crash when S3D is started.
S3D crashed when files were dropped on the shortcut or executable.

[cheese123]

Hello, I hope somebody can help me, I dont quite understand how to import all three UV maps from one object to another without changing the actual 3D model using wings3D.

[manitoba1073]

couldnt you have made it easier to copy nodes :rotfl:

Well I went to add a new torp model and all but i get this error when trying to save the .dat file

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u320/manitoba1073/error.jpg

and this is what my tree for it looked lik so far.

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u320/manitoba1073/tree.jpg

Im just playing around with it for now so its not like its important. just wondering though if you get a chance.

[keltos01]

I worked on new torps awhile ago and skwasjer told me the torpedo types were hardcoded (I had made new nodes with the mk 28,31 and 35 in the . dat and all the corresponding ids and stuff .sim .zon) in the game and while it is possible to transform existing types you can't add new types, at least the types appearing in the .sim are allways the same : hard coded list in sh4:dead:



mk 28 mk 31 mk 35 mod :
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=134942

mk28 mod :
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=134287&highlight=torpedoes

[manitoba1073]

I worked on new torps awhile ago and skwasjer told me the torpedo types were hardcoded (I had made new nodes with the mk 28,31 and 35 in the . dat and all the corresponding ids and stuff .sim .zon) in the game and while it is possible to transform existing types you can't add new types, at least the types appearing in the .sim are allways the same : hard coded list in sh4:dead:



mk 28 mk 31 mk 35 mod :
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=134942

mk28 mod :
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=134287&highlight=torpedoes

I know that with the S3d and how they are hardcoded, but I have v1.4 and it has the slots availiable for the german torps that could be used as a replacement, but that wasnt where I had the problem. I went to save the .dat file and got that error. wondering if he had any idea why. like i said i was playing around with the new version of it lol.

[skwasjer]

Like Mikhayl says, the ordering of your nodes is wrong. But I'd like to correct him a bit.

First, you must have materials AND models. You can't have a node that uses materials or models 'behind it'.
So, material (+label), model, node, label, controllers and it's children, child nodes (and it's children).

The ordering is important, otherwise even if S3D doesn't crash, the game will. Please use the up/down buttons in the toolbar to correct the index of each chunk.

I'm not sure if this causes the crash but it's a place to start. I will take a look at it when I can, thanks for letting me know.

[swdw]

You're only allowed to take a break if you agree to actually play with some of the great mods your tool has allowed to come into existance or significantly improve.

It's time for you to take a break, and enjoy the fruits of your labors. The fruits are much more than S3D. You've allowed many things to take place in TMO, RFB, PE2, EE4, RSRD, OM, and the list goes on.

Modding took off like a bandit around the 0.5 release. So all of this stuff is actually a direct result of your work.

Thanks again!

[skwasjer]

I sure will :up:

[The Hornet]

How do I import .png images of edited UV maps?

[skwasjer]

Uhm, what do you mean? You want to import a modified UV-png back into S3D? This is not possible. The UV-map preview is only a visual presentation of the uv data, and so is the PNG.

The PNG is only useful as 'overlay' to modify the textures of the model in a 2D graphics program. To edit the actual uv data you need to export the model with the model-export function, edit the model/uvmap in 3D studio and then import it back in.

[manitoba1073]

Thats what I was figuring the problems was. I didnt find the move up and down button till way after I had exited and restarted lol.

[DrBeast]

Enjoy your well-earned and well-deserved break! :up:

[Rubini]

Hi skwasjer,

Just a feedback:

I used (for modding work) the new 0.82 for the last past 3 days and imported/exported 3d objects (in .obj), edited them on Wings3d, messed with textures and UVmap...made this at least more than 70 times for so many objects!! All working as intend. Congratulations mate!:up: :up:

Best regards,

Rubini.

[skwasjer]

Thanks for the feedback Rubini, it's good to hear everything works fine so far. Keep up the good work on your mods :up:

[clayp]

I'm proud to announce S3D beta 0.8.2 is finally out.

Below the readme that you can also find in the download package (slightly altered for online reading purposes).

PLEASE READ IT!

The download link is all the way down at the bottom.


S3D - Silent 3ditor, skwas' Silent Hunter mod tool

Copyright © 2007 skwas. All rights reserved.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: Use at your own risk. Distribution, commercial use and or (re)selling of this program are prohibited. Developed in 2007 by skwas, a game enthousiast and ubergeek :o)

Thank you for downloading S3D - Silent 3ditor (beta 0.8.2)
==========================================

SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS
-------------------------

Windows XP (32/64 bit), Windows Vista (32/64 bit)
Computer capable of running Silent Hunter ;)IMPORTANT! The installer included in this package does install NOT the required components listed below. Please use the links to download the components if you don't have them installed on your computer

Microsoft .NET 2.0

Vista users can skip this component (.NET 2 comes out of the box with Vista).
For 32-bit editions of Windows:
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=0856EACB-4362-4B0D-8EDD-AAB15C5E04F5&displaylang=en

For 64-bit editions of Windows:
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=B44A0000-ACF8-4FA1-AFFB-40E78D788B00&displaylang=en






Microsoft DirectX 9.0c (Managed)
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=2da43d38-db71-4c1b-bc6a-9b6652cd92a3&displaylang=en
Note to Vista users: this DirectX component can be (and must be) safely installed on Windows Vista!INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS
-------------------------------

Make sure you've got the required components installed on your computer.
See SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS for details.
Extract the .rar package to a location of your choice.
Double click the S3D_xxxx.msi file to run the installer (where xxxx
indicates version number).

Follow the steps of the installer.
After the installer has completed, run S3D through it's start menu shortcut: Start menu > skwas > Silent 3ditor (beta 0.7)FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS
----------------------------------

Q: S3D crashes when I start it.
A: Verify you have DirectX 9.0c with Managed Extensions installed.
See: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=2da43d38-db71-4c1b-bc6a-9b6652cd92a3&displaylang=en
Q: Can I get the source code from S3D?
A: No, not per se. S3D is largely based on corporate code, and hence I can't distribute the code as is. I will be happy to help (and if possible share fragments of code) if anyone requests so. In the future, I do plan to release full code, after I have revised it and removed private code.
Q: Can I use the binaries from S3D in my own applications?
A: No. They are copyright protected for the time being.
>>>>>>>>>>>Q: Don't you have documentation or a help file with S3D?<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>>>>>>>>>>A: Unfortunately no, only a little bit online help. I hope to get this sorted at some point :(<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Q: S3D fails to load some SH3 files or some modded files.
A: This may happen because:

I have not implemented every controller unique to SH3 (iow. removed in SH4).
The file is corrupt.
The file is heavily changed with other tools, and does not follow rules that S3D expects. If you assume this is the case, please send me the file(s) in question and I will change S3D if possible/needed.
FEATURES
-----------

For a list of detailed improvements since previous versions, please read the
'changelog.html' file that comes with the rar-package, or view it online here (http://sh4.skwas.net/changelog.aspx). Below a compilation
of features:

DAT/SIM/ZON/VAL/CAM/DSD/ANM file support.
SDL file support
Rich GUI, which allows you to edit all the data that is known to me or anyone else (meaning, if you got info, share, so I can embed it). Not everything is built in yet, but I'm working on it.
Multiple files can be opened (it will open in a new window). This is to support copy/paste and drag&drop in the future.
Two types of views for chunks: List, Tree.
Options for editing id's, offsets in decimal/hex, rotations in radians/degrees, etc.
Import/export of tga's, dds's.
Import/export of a raw chunk. Can be used to move chunks over to other files.
Export of models to COLLADA format (v1.4.1).
Export/import of models with the OBJ-format (WaveFront).
Preview function for tga's and dds's.
Explorer style navigable links for id's. Click an id, if the id exists in the file, it will navigate to it.
Explorer style history of visited nodes. Back/forward buttons allow you to track back to previously selected nodes.
Rebuild the index chunk with all id's in the file.
List of all id's in the file (by selecting the index chunk). Id's and offsets can be copied to clipboard. Later, maybe even in all the game folders.
Support for placement chunk (cities/harbors)
Move chunk up/down in list. Only one chunk at a time.
Revert changes option (entire reload, not undo/redo)
Recent file list
Property editor for all object controllers/properties, with a full edit mode.
Remap function (cloning)
Global file search function (search for an id in any file)
Drag and drop support for opening files directly from Windows Explorer.
Undo/redo support to undo changes made to a file.
Partial cut/copy/paste support
Automatic check for updates
Find/Goto dialog to quickly find a node by text, id or index.
Add array items to arrays in property controller data.
Support for keyframe animations
Integrated analysis tool for analyzing unknown data using a hex editor.
Import of a DAT-file into another. Very useful to load a group of chunks, instead of exporting/importing each chunk seperately.
Ability to add known chunks, including all the controller property chunks.
Assign a new random id to a chunk.
UV map preview function, and export option. The exported UV map can be used as an overlay in your favorite paint software, to aid in modifying textures.BUGS/SUPPORT/QUESTION/SUGGESTION
-------------------------------------------

Please report any problem or question in this thread. I wil do my best to help out.

To contact me directly, install S3D and get my email address from the aboutbox.


CREDITS
---------

Special thanks (in random order):

CaptainCox (logo/artwork), DivingDuck (file structure, 3D), leovampire (08-01-2008, R.I.P.)

More thanks to (feedback, suggestions, or for just being kind :)):

Ubi, SH dev team, SubSim.com. Also, individuals: tater, Anvart, Bando, WEBSTER, maikarant, Jace11, WilhelmTell, lurbz, Sansal, longam, PepsiCan, UBOAT234, Digital_Trucker, DirtyHarry3033, Kaleun_Endrass, sergbuto, SquareSteelBar, sober, jaketoox, reallydedpoet, swdw, nautilus42, nvdrifter, kapitan_zur_see, DeepIron, panthercules, l3th4l, Laffertytig, alamwuhk2a, privateer, g_BonE, Ducimus, lurker_hlb3, haegemon, wildchild, urfisch, LukeFF, ref, kikn79, WernerSobe, Redwine, GuillermoZS, keltos01, Mikhayl, Kriller2, DrBeast, jimbob, Rubini, M. Sarsfield, miner1436, AVGWarhawk, reallydedpoet, Subject, and those who have been debugging the file formats long before me. If I have forgotten you, I apologize, please PM or mail me in that case. This list may (and will) grow, if you feel you need to be noted, be nice to me :)

3rd party components used:
C# HexBox free control - http://sourceforge.net/projects/hexbox/

FINAL NOTES
--------------

While S3D has now turned Beta, this doesn't mean it contains less bugs and/or is more stable that previous releases. I feel comfortable with the Beta signature because the tool is slowly but steadily maturing and the end of what I can and will do with it is in sight.

Having said that, I want to still point out that because of significant changes in the code, this Beta can still cause game files to be corrupted. If you run into issues please report them. My final word of advice is backup often, and test your mods well before releasing them to the public.

Have fun using S3D!!

skwas


Latest build 0.8.2 (uninstall ANY previous release before installing this one):


DOWNLOAD (http://sh4.skwas.net/downloads.aspx)


Older releases (if any) can be downloaded at the same link...


If there isnt any help file or instructions what good is it??? I was tring to read all 40 pages of the post and was getting a headache and falling asleep.It took me 3 or 4 months to learn the mini-tweaker so I dont see much hope for this...I wanted to add more torpedos,dont think I will ever be able to do it.....

[THE_MASK]

I could never make models or anything either but i have tweaked files . I cannot wait for the plethora of new models from talented modders using this tool .

[DeepIron]

If there isnt any help file or instructions what good is it??? :lol: If S3D is too much for you, consider the way it was done before... with a HEX EDITOR! S3D is an incredibly useful tool and saves hours of work! Skwasjer has given the modding community an incredible tool IMO...

I was tring to read all 40 pages of the post and was getting a headache and falling asleep.Then don't read all 40 pages at one time. Try taking it in little by little... It's an evolving process, being contributed to by a number of people...

It took me 3 or 4 months to learn the mini-tweaker so I dont see much hope for this...I wanted to add more torpedos,dont think I will ever be able to do it.....Well, if you start with an attitude that "I can't" then you're right, you won't... You're not going to "get it" right away... Modding takes time and patience and testing, repeat as necessary. The upside is that you learned the mini-tweaker right? So what if it takes 3 or 4 months? What's the rush?

I've been working on building "from scratch" SH4 vessels for several months and I'm still not there... yet. But I'm not going to "throw in the towel". S3D has saved me hours of work, and I'm learning the processes just like you are, and like so many other SH modders.

So, quit yer squawkin' and git to moddin'... :up:

[skwasjer]

Hi clayp, no, unfortunately there's not alot of documentation regarding S3D. Then again, if I have to choose to write documentation or add a new feature, the choice is simple. I am a developer and not a writer. I try to do my best to explain new features here and in the changelogs, and most people seem to pick it up fairly soon.

That said, if you feel 40 pages is a long read, I can assure you a manual for S3D will be longer if I would cover every single thing that it can do in easy language. Everybody that uses it now has been in the same boat (pun intended) as you are now. We all had to learn about the game, and about tools, including myself (and I still don't know everything nor will I ever probably). You have to start somewhere. The later you start, the more difficult it will become. As S3D develops, it can do more, and thus becomes more complex. This is an unfortunate side effect of all software, but there's nothing I can do about it.

My advice is simple: read threads, ask questions, and try.. try.. try.. We all do it. So can you.

[clayp]

I'll give it a try....:lol: The problem is I'm in bad health..One problem is very bad diabetes and my eyes are bad...:yep:

[The Hornet]

Ok something weird happens whenever I edit a 3D model and import it, the model is placed below the water and invisible, I have tried to find out what I did wrong but have had no sucess. Can someone tell me my mistake?

Using Wings3D
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/1808/sh4img20080430202414734zc3.jpg (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/)

[ref]

Try to reverse the polygons normals before exporting them as obj, the picture is too small and a bit dark to give a better advice.

Ref

[Snaptrap]

Thanks allot swasjer for use of your editor. Even though I still had to use Hex Workshop to recheck the work (since the editor is still in Beta), the editor saved me time and made it easier to focus on making the additions to my mod rather than working with numbers.

I should've known better that I needed to cross reference parent id's when matching ammo with a particular weapon. Brain cramp. LOL!

[haegemon]

Such a huge work.. :hmm:
What will be the next step?

[Snaptrap]

Such a huge work.. :hmm:
What will be the next step?

Like you said before the edit; it should be a STICKY!!! He did a fantastic job with the editor and made modding more accessible to those with none or little hex editing knowledge. A see allot more people creating mods because of people like skwasjer.

If this doesn't become a sticky soon, I'll...... I'll...... run my sub into a K-Mart.

[cheese123]

How do you change the index number of a node?

[skwasjer]

Thanks allot swasjer for use of your editor. Even though I still had to use Hex Workshop to recheck the work (since the editor is still in Beta), the editor saved me time and made it easier to focus on making the additions to my mod rather than working with numbers.
Glad you like :up:

Such a huge work.. :hmm:
What will be the next step?
Well, a model viewer is one thing I have been working on for some time. It's not ready enough for release though, but in some time it will. I may extend this afterwards to show nested nodes/models, and also to view damage zones.

There's also work left in the animations department (mesh/characters).

Truth be told, these two features will pretty much mark the end of the development for me. I have to stop somewhere... Afterwards, I probably will still add new stuff as time permits, but I won't work as active on it as I have the past year.

How do you change the index number of a node?

Click on the up/down buttons (with the green arrows) to move a node up or down in the index-order by one step.

[Nauticalwolf]

skwasjer,

Help..... please

I have been successfully running your s3d program for the past couple of weeks - building the sub base for pearl harbour.

Work was progressing well if not a little slow as I have been building the sub base by just calculating the required co-ordinates for the various objects.

Last Friday night I shut down my system and on Saturday morning when I tried to open s3d I got the following error message.

http://static3.filefront.com/images/personal/n/Nauticalwolf/131892/vmhodiidoh.jpg

Since then I have stripped .net Framework from my system, reinstalled only net 2.0 patched, uninstalled reinstalled - net framework, various firewalls, directX, s3d and again net framework - two or three more times and still - no joy on getting s3d to run.

I'm currently thinking of formatting my 2 terra byte system and reinstalling windows from scratch.... going a little nuts here.

I understand the error message being a clr20r3 is a net framework error with the system.configuration dll.

P1 application
P2 version
P3 time stamp
P4 assembly/module
P5 assembly/module version
P6 assembly/module time stamp
P7 method
P8 IL offset
P9 unhandled exception

I can't understand why its been working great and then - nothing

Please help if you can, I cant think of anything else to try

[skwasjer]

Seems like the config file got corrupted.

Which version(s) do you currently have installed? (the CLR field (P2) is another version field, not the one I need to know about)

Try this:

Open up the following folder:

Documents And Settings\<username>\Local Settings\Application Data
Open the subfolder 'skwas'
Delete the subfolders in there (they should start with S3D in the name)
Restart S3DThe above steps will remove a couple of configuration files S3D uses. It will recreate them when restarting the app.

Let me know, you can try another thing if this doesn't work.

PS: No need to reinstall, I'm sure this can be fixed manually.

[keltos01]

Finally !
Skwasjer, I think I might've made it : I managed to fit all the parts into one map and import it using your beautiful tool into a 9dx2 .dat : see below :

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/1227/occlusionmapjyunsenbqx8.jpg

[Nauticalwolf]

skwasjer,

I don't believe there are enough words to adequately say - thank you.

So I will just say thank you, thank you, thank you and again thank you.

:up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up:

s3d is an amazing modding tool, and its creator even more so. :yep:

[Nauticalwolf]

skwasjer,


Again thank you,

and in answer to your question, I am using version (beta 0.8.2) however: the xml and s3d.exe.config both say version = 1.0 and the s3d.exe says, assembly s3d { .ver 1:0:0:0 }

BTW again thank you :up:

[skwasjer]

No problem :up:

About the versions, yea, the exe actually has 3 different versions, with all different purposes. The file version is actually 0.8.2 but the assembly version is just 1.0.0.0. The CLR reports only the assembly version, not the file version so in these cases I can't see which version the user has (in which case I must ask). Anyway, better just forget about this. It's only meaningfull to me ;)

[cheese123]

Ok something weird happens whenever I edit a 3D model and import it, the model is placed below the water and invisible, I have tried to find out what I did wrong but have had no sucess. Can someone tell me my mistake?

Using Wings3D
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/1808/sh4img20080430202414734zc3.jpg (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/)

I am having the same problem, no soultion found.

[skwasjer]

The problem is the MTL contains no materials, and also the OBJ files don't have any references to a material (using 'usemtl'). A model must always have a material assigned to every single face, or S3D can't import it.

The error message is not so meaningful but I will correct this in a new version.

[Snaptrap]

A program like this should be stickied. It's very well done and complex enough to deserve high regard. Please sticky.

[skwasjer]

Some work in progress, though no release is scheduled. I am going on vacation in two weeks, so no update at least until after I'm back.

- OFF support (bitmap font definition file), almost done with this. Allows you to make custom bitmap fonts (well, you make the actual bitmap in ie. Photoshop, you can define the rectangles in S3D though).
- Model viewer
- Add cut/copy/paste support for .dat (and related) files.
- Mesh animation import/export
- Visual zone editor for boxes and spheres (once model viewer is done)
- Menu.ini support is a BIG maybe...

These todo's most likely mark the end of the development cycle.

Here a screeny of OFF support (still a WIP too):

http://sh4.skwas.net/images/screenshots/off_support.jpg

[peabody]

Some work in progress, though no release is scheduled. I am going on vacation in two weeks, so no update at least until after I'm back.

If you take a laptop you could work on vactaion.:roll: (Just kidding of course.) Enjoy your vacation!! Amazing program I would never even consider trying modding without a tool like this, I just wouldn't understand it. Same as above 'Thank you' just doesn't say it all. OH, ya don't forget to bring me a TShirt from where ever you are going.:lol:

Enjoy and main thing RELAX !!!!

Peabody

[skwasjer]

I no longer have a laptop, just so I can't bring one with me anymore ;)

As far as the mesh animations, I am working on an export/import function but again have trouble finding a suitable format. I had a format almost working (md3) until I ran into a couple of animations in the dat-file that exceeded some of the limits of said format (nr of vertices, iirc). I will probably still complete it though but with that limitation in mind some animations can't be exported and also complex high poly animations can't be imported. Not until I work on another format... :damn:

It's weird Max failed to export the mtl. Can it be that the material name has some odd characters in them? Something is out of place...

[edit] You can also omit the Max mtl export (disable 'Create material library') if you save it to the same file, and do specify to 'use' an existing mtl. As long as the S3D mtl is still there you are good to go (hopefully :x).

[Madox58]

mtl's can be hand edited.
I do it quite often.

Also, the animation sequences do not need UV mapping info.
They inhert those from the main object.

So any export should have the UV's for the master object
but none are needed for the differnet postional information.

[skwasjer]

The flags are possible. I've used them for testing purposes.

I am not sure if the characters were the problem. It's been close to 2 months ago since I worked on this so I don't remember exactly.

[skwasjer]

I'll let the pictures do the talking...

http://sh4.skwas.net/images/screenshots/captainroom.jpg

http://sh4.skwas.net/images/screenshots/gato.jpg

http://sh4.skwas.net/images/screenshots/yamato.jpg

I have to admit right away, it's performance is horrible (mostly the interiors) and it eats a whole lot of memory right now (needs alot of improvements), and the grid is bugged, but I'm happy with the results so far. It will allow you to view all the models in one .dat, placed properly by their offset/rotations. You can toggle meshes on and off, have a fully functional movable camera and have different view modes (wireframe, vertices etc). There's still quite a few features I want to add at some point but I try to keep it simple for now, just to get it stable enough and with better performance...

This will make placement of those pesky nodes a whole lot easier... :up:

Eta, patience... :88)

[Ducimus]

skwasjer,

I hate you! I hang up my modders cap, and you come up with this bit of awesomeness!

I will not be tempted!
http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/3691/petervincenteh3.jpg

Back! Back foul beast! Back creature of the night!

[skwasjer]

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[AVGWarhawk]

Jesus Skwasjer, that is cool. I do not have a clue what the heck it is and you can do with it but I'm betting there are quite a few who do. I'm certainly not a modder but it looks like a modders delight. :up:

[Ducimus]

AVG, ill illustrate for you.


Lets say for example, your placing an entirely new object into the interior. Like.... alarm klaxons for instance.

- Hmmm, i need a starting point, lets take the coordinates of this object here, since i remember by memory its location in the conning tower. Think ill vary it a little bit so i can see it better.

-Save. start game. *tap fingers*. Select single mission *tap fingers*,

- Go to Conning tower. Start looking around. Damn where is it, i can't find it. Hmmm.. maybe its stuck inside something. Nope, not here... not there. Hmm maybe its only visible from one side. Nope not here, not there. Ahhh.. ill bet i know where it went.

- *run the camera into the wall and look on the other side of the CT wall.* Yup, there it is.

- Quit game, start up S3D., Let see know. I know X goes this way, and Z goes that way. Think ill try and position this thing down this axis first, Lets try ..... -1.4.. .

-Save. start game. *tap fingers*. Select single mission *tap fingers*,

- Ahhh F**k, where'd it go!.. Oh there it is. Hmm -1.4 too much.

- Quit game, start up S3D.

- Hmm ok... lets try.. -1.2

-Save. start game. *tap fingers*. Select single mission *tap fingers*,

- Ok... -1.2 too short, lets try -1.3

Rinse and repeat, for X axis, Z axis, Y axis, AND THEN.... you start messing with rotation. Which is a combination of axis.

If you could acutally visually see where your placing an object, an hour of guesswork could turn into a 2 minute task.

[skwasjer]

That's one application yea. You could do the same in a 3D program, but the benefits with this feature in S3D is that you don't have to export the models and place them according to the offset/rotation values in S3D in the 3D program, you can now do it straight away in one program, and without the need to learn those complex 3D programs.

It is also useful to see if a model imported correctly, and in the future, I hope to also add stuff like texture support, a zone editor (to edit the damage and collision zones), placeholders (for lights, characters, and other dummy nodes, etc). These features are not as complex as getting the basic rendering engine done. I am now finally close to a working engine, it now mostly needs optimizations before I can release it...

[LukeFF]

That's one application yea. You could do the same in a 3D program, but the benefits with this feature in S3D is that you don't have to export the models and place them according to the offset/rotation values in S3D in the 3D program, you can now do it straight away in one program, and without the need to learn those complex 3D programs.

It is also useful to see if a model imported correctly, and in the future, I hope to also add stuff like texture support, a zone editor (to edit the damage and collision zones), placeholders (for lights, characters, and other dummy nodes, etc). These features are not as complex as getting the basic rendering engine done. I am now finally close to a working engine, it now mostly needs optimizations before I can release it...

I'm impressed! I can see a lot of good things coming from features like this.

[Xantrokoles]

Skwasjer, you make me a happy man too!

When I see this 3d view pics combined with a drag n' drop function in the *.dat and co files, I am sure you are outshining the dev's SDK:up:

keep up your great work and have some nice vocation:yep:

[Xantrokoles]

A program like this should be stickied. It's very well done and complex enough to deserve high regard. Please sticky.

Maybe we can fullfill him this desire?

R.I.P

[Digital_Trucker]

Drool, drool. Amen to the sticky request, if there is one thread that deserves to be on the front page, it's this one. :arrgh!:

Thanks for the already wonderful tool, skwas, and for what is to come in the future. :sunny:

[momo55]

AVG, ill illustrate for you.


Lets say for example, your placing an entirely new object into the interior. Like.... alarm klaxons for instance.

- Hmmm, i need a starting point, lets take the coordinates of this object here, since i remember by memory its location in the conning tower. Think ill vary it a little bit so i can see it better.

-Save. start game. *tap fingers*. Select single mission *tap fingers*,

- Go to Conning tower. Start looking around. Damn where is it, i can't find it. Hmmm.. maybe its stuck inside something. Nope, not here... not there. Hmm maybe its only visible from one side. Nope not here, not there. Ahhh.. ill bet i know where it went.

- *run the camera into the wall and look on the other side of the CT wall.* Yup, there it is.

- Quit game, start up S3D., Let see know. I know X goes this way, and Z goes that way. Think ill try and position this thing down this axis first, Lets try ..... -1.4.. .

-Save. start game. *tap fingers*. Select single mission *tap fingers*,

- Ahhh F**k, where'd it go!.. Oh there it is. Hmm -1.4 too much.

- Quit game, start up S3D.

- Hmm ok... lets try.. -1.2

-Save. start game. *tap fingers*. Select single mission *tap fingers*,

- Ok... -1.2 too short, lets try -1.3

Rinse and repeat, for X axis, Z axis, Y axis, AND THEN.... you start messing with rotation. Which is a combination of axis.

If you could acutally visually see where your placing an object, an hour of guesswork could turn into a 2 minute task.
Something like this would fit on Duci's door :D

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/3100/ducixi6.jpg

Yup ! This thread should be sticky .
Nice work Skwasjer ...proficiat man ...je blijft ons verbazen .

[Xantrokoles]

Something like this would fit on Duci's door :D

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/3100/ducixi6.jpg

:rotfl: This is guilty for all modders.

[keltos01]

can't wait for the new release ! the steps explained here above, I did them last night to move a few thingies, and it took me the whole evening....:nope:

so yes it does look awesome Skwasjer !:up::up::up:
k

[Donner]

Thread now stickied as per numerous recent requests! :ping:

[Ducimus]

Something like this would fit on Duci's door :D

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/3100/ducixi6.jpg

:rotfl: This is guilty for all modders.

Of that im certain. :rotfl:

[DrBeast]

skwasjer,

I hate you! I hang up my modders cap, and you come up with this bit of awesomeness!

I will not be tempted!
http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/3691/petervincenteh3.jpg

Back! Back foul beast! Back creature of the night!

Hoy now, what did I do?! :rotfl:

skwasjer, once again you surpass our expectations! :up:

[AVGWarhawk]

Again Duci, you might as well be telling me how to launch the space shuttle when it comes to this. All I know is I see a lot of happy modders looking to stroke this new feature over. This in turn generates creativity in the modders mind. This tool allows the creativity to come to light. It is a darn good relationship. The modder gets this wonder tool created by Skwasjer. The modder creates with this new tool with impunity. I get to play with the end result.:rock: Damn, that is almost better than a six pack and pizza.

Nice work Skwasjer:up:

[Digital_Trucker]

Thread now stickied as per numerous recent requests! :ping:

[salutes smartly] Thank you, sir:up:

[skwasjer]

Hola, it took me a few minutes to find the thread... :rotfl:

I know I've been teasing you all for a while with this functionality, and it has been in development for some time but I never found time to finish it, especially due to other features that took more time than expected. As with any new feature I hope everytime it will make modding more productive, creative and more accessible... :up:

Anyway, I'm heading back downstairs. My beer is warming up... :smug:

[Xantrokoles]

http://siliconforest.freetoasthost.org/images/nervous.JPG

S3D 0.9 NOW!

[Digital_Trucker]

:rotfl:You weren't the class clown, by any chance, were you, Mr X?:rotfl:

[skwasjer]

In preparation of the upcoming release... Please hold your breath just a little longer :rotfl: Upload commencing in 30 minutes...

Known issues:


Well, basically, this is the first 3D viewer I ever made for public use, so anything can happen. I'm fairly confident it will work out for most but I can't know in advance. I was only able to test on 2 GFX cards, one eVGA GTX8800 768 and one eVGA GTS7600 256. If you run into problems, please post your GFX card, GFX memory, and platform, and the exact message that is given to you by S3D. Additionally, I also require that you attach the DAT-file(s). Without this info I can't help you.
Model preview on huge dat-files (interiors) are painfully slow in wireframe mode. This is due to the Z-buffer being overloaded. To prevent this, use Solid or a combination of Solid + ... so wires in the distance can be clipped. In closeup mode (inside the interior), performance is better though if alot of the geometry is behind the camera...I don't think I need to say more, below is the changelog. I suggest you read it first before running S3D so you know in advance what has changed and don't miss out on some of the other new features and improvements.

Version v0.9.0 - Download (http://sh4.skwas.net/downloads.aspx)

New

OFF support (bitmap font definition file). Allows you to make custom bitmap fonts (well, you make the actual bitmap in ie. Photoshop, you can define the rectangles in S3D though). OFF files are found in Data\Menu\Fonts. For S3D to open the associated .TGA or .DDS, the image must have the same name and be placed in the same folder as the .OFF file.
Integrated 3D viewer. Allows you to view all the objects in an entire .DAT file. No texture support. Please visit this thread for a brief walkthrough of how to work with the viewer: SUBSIM thread (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=138983).
Ability to modify the camera sector of interiors. If you select the root node of an interior, a new panel is available called 'Interior camera clip sector' with a couple of fields to edit the bounding box. Changed

Restyled the UI a bit. Added panels (of which some are collapsable) to group specific fields and values.
Float and double values were previously formatted without a decimal seperator if the value contained no decimals, and so they looked visually the same as int, long, etc. They are now however always formatted with at least one decimal.
Adding and changing materials on a node is now easier due to a redesigned UI. Material id's can now be ordered, and also added through a picklist, instead of having to copy/paste the id yourself.
Replaced 'Visibility' edit box with a checkbox.
Renamed 'Insert new chunk' to 'Append new chunk'.
Renamed 'Offset' to 'Translation'. Improved

If an MTL-file is empty, a proper error message is shown (thanks Mikhayl)
If a model uses a material that is not found in the MTL-file an error message is shown.
If a parent node of a model node has no materials assigned (or less then number of materials the imported model uses), a warning message will be shown to warn you that the import procedure may cause incorrect renderings. Fixed

Crash bug when attempting to add a RotationKeyFrames or PositionKeyFrames chunk.
If materials in the MTL-file had different ordering compared to the material id's linked on the parent node, the model would be incorrectly rendered. The importer now compares the material names and attempts to reorder the materials. This will still fail if material names are different. In this case the order must match the materials on the parent node for the model to be rendered correctly.
Due to a bug, import of OBJ-models that contained normals, in combination with the setting 'Flip coordinate system' turned off and 'Reverse face winding' on were not imported correctly (resulting in incorrectly lit models in game). If the model did not contain normals or the settings were set otherwise, the problem wasn't there though. Thanks Sergbuto, for notifying me.

[Xantrokoles]

30 Minutes Yeaaaaah!!!!!!

Time for playing a long time tonight with the 3d viewer:up:
How is able to work with campaign layers now?

Thank you for all Skawasjer!

[Xantrokoles]

Yes I am the first!!!!

Feels like Christmas!

[skwasjer]

It's out! Grab it while it's hot. Click one of the links (signature or previous post) or choose 'Check for updates...' in S3D. Cheers, and have fun...

I hope there won't be alot of 3D related problems now (crosses fingers) ;)

[Digital_Trucker]

Thanks, swas:up: You da man:yep:

Just in time to start messing with the decks on the PT boat:rock:

[Xantrokoles]

Skawas, again a big thanks out of Germany.

The 3d viewer is just doozy!
Its performance is great.

The time of guessing coordinates and testing in game are over:lol:

I hope you have nice camping weeks with your familie and you may use German expressways.;)

EDIT:
A question:
When I have in the viewer the right side. Which side is it in game?

[skwasjer]

Skawas, again a big thanks out of Germany.

The 3d viewer is just doozy!
Its performance is great.

The time of guessing coordinates and testing in game are over:lol:

I hope you have nice camping weeks with your familie and you may use German expressways.;)

Dont keep it up now and have fun:up:
Well, I'm staying in Holland this year (first time ever, usually it's France, or beyond) for several reasons. But I'll be close to Germany so I am sure we will take a day trip across the border... :smug:

Good to hear it works well for you ;)

[skwasjer]

Look at the axes icon in the corner. The direction they are facing is positive coordinates. Rotation has an exception: Z-rotation is clockwise, while X/Y are counter (if you look along the axis from 0,0,0). It's not a bug or something, in Max it's the same (although Max has Y and Z axes flipped). The game has Y as the "up-vector".

[edit] And another thing. Currently I use hardcoded (meaning, you can't change it in S3D) multisampling 4x as max limit. It will use 2x or none if the GFX card doesn't support it. In any case, if you want to change GFX quality, use your GFX control applet...

[skwasjer]

Also note, a model viewer is cool and all, but it WILL consume significant amounts of resources. I've programmed the engine fairly smart in that it will stop the rendering loop when you toggle to another application, as well as when no "node" chunk is selected, yet memory consumption will rise regardless of that. Especially when working with big files, alot of models, etc, and other applications open, a slowdown may be noticable...

[peabody]

Thank you for all your time and work creating this masterpiece:up: Now, what's it for?:rotfl:

Peabody

[skwasjer]

I'm not sure myself. People wanted this, so now they have it... :88)

[Xantrokoles]

Renamed 'Insert new chunk' to 'Append new chunk'.
This killed me now several times:rotfl:
You know, you are buzzing for yourself:

mhmmm >copy< mhm >paste< mhmmmm>very good, OK, now< mhmm >Insert new chunk< ????HUUUUUUU????? >Where is it???<

And then you get it... ahhh append new chunk:damn:

Come on, admit it. You just wanna annoy me with this change:rotfl:

[skwasjer]

:rotfl:

I warned you in advance: read the changelog. You even had 30 minutes to do so... :smug:

But I can make a sport of it. Next time I can call it Inject after this chunk

And the model preview, Mesh viewer

The cut/copy/paste buttons are pretty much the funniest ones though. I can't remember how long they have been there, but I just can't seem to put myself to add the functionality. And when I do, noone will ever use them because they think they don't work anyway :rotfl:

[Xantrokoles]

I read it two times for understanding all!
But the consuetude is stronger than my Brain sometimes:yep:

Oh But I personally love the 'Buttons' .
Until I have clicked on them, I hit 7 time ctrl-v, ctrl-x or ctrl-x:lol:

[lurker_hlb3]

This great. With the viewer I just solved two problems I been having for the last month in less then 5 minutes.

You have made my life so much easier

Thanks again for a "great" tool

[Digital_Trucker]

I have to say thanks, again, also. I've been trying to add a piece of 3d to a model and either succeeded in nothing or added a CTD to the game:rotfl:. Being able to view the model took care of half the problem and a revelation in my old brain regarding how things are ordered took care of the other half.

Now all I have to do is learn how to texture the black piece of material:rotfl:and I'll be all set:up: Have a beer on my behalf and enjoy your time off:sunny:

[AVGWarhawk]

I'm not sure myself. People wanted this, so now they have it... :88)

Man, did I laugh out loud at that response. Nice work skwasjer. Maybe one day I will figure out just what the heck it does. :-?

[THE_MASK]

I'm not sure myself. People wanted this, so now they have it... :88)

Man, did I laugh out loud at that response. Nice work skwasjer. Maybe one day I will figure out just what the heck it does. :-? Thats easy , i can now look at the models in S3D as well as the museum .

[skwasjer]

The new model viewer allows modders to look at a DAT-file like as if it was rendered in game. Well not entirely because it's still very simple but it's a start. Obviously I don't intend to support everything the game does, which would be stupid anyway (I'm not trying to make a new game here). It gives the modder the ability to change things, and directly see what they changed visually, without the need to fire up the game to see what the result was. It is basically a huge time saver... And time is as we all know, sparse.

Now they can start to waste time on more important matters like full modded interiors ;) j/k

[THE_MASK]

I was joking . Cannot wait for the cavalcade of new mods with S3D .

[skwasjer]

And I was talking to AVG and anyone else that may wonder :up:

PS: the museum > S3D

[DrBeast]

PS: the museum > S3D

Bah...the only thing I might accept is Guinness > S3D. Everything else, S3D wins without even breaking a sweat! :up:
Oh...uh...and I'm sorry to say, but feta >>> S3D! :rotfl:

[Sailor Steve]

Maybe one day I will figure out just what the heck it does. :-?
I already know what it does: it lets other people do cool things while I watch and say "Ooooooh".

[keltos01]

The more I use it, the more I like it !!! GREAT function that 3d viewer, modding becomes a breeze now :yep:

Can't thank you enough !

Have a good holiday, you deserve it Skwasjer :up:

[AVGWarhawk]

The new model viewer allows modders to look at a DAT-file like as if it was rendered in game. Well not entirely because it's still very simple but it's a start. Obviously I don't intend to support everything the game does, which would be stupid anyway (I'm not trying to make a new game here). It gives the modder the ability to change things, and directly see what they changed visually, without the need to fire up the game to see what the result was. It is basically a huge time saver... And time is as we all know, sparse.

Now they can start to waste time on more important matters like full modded interiors ;) j/k


Having not to fire up the game to test something is a HUGE time saver. That right there is worth it's weight in gold. :up:

[Carotio]

I was just in a pc shop today, where I happened to see an old game, and by looking at his avatar:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/images/ranks/zeus3.jpg
I was wondering if skwasjer has been playing Age of Mythology in his past...? :lol:

[skwasjer]

Yes I have, but truth be told, I'm not responsible for my avatar. longam asked Neal to put this avatar up for me, and it took me over 2 months to realize it myself :rotfl:

[Digital_Trucker]

Yes I have, but truth be told, I'm not responsible for my avatar. longam asked Neal to put this avatar up for me, and it took me over 2 months to realize it myself :rotfl:
Dang it, skwas, please be careful of the timing of your jokes:rotfl:I just cleaned my monitor and this mouthful of Gatorade would have made a huge sticky mess to clean up.

[AVGWarhawk]

Yes I have, but truth be told, I'm not responsible for my avatar. longam asked Neal to put this avatar up for me, and it took me over 2 months to realize it myself :rotfl:
Dang it, skwas, please be careful of the timing of your jokes:rotfl:I just cleaned my monitor and this mouthful of Gatorade would have made a huge sticky mess to clean up.


Hehe...I remember you asking me about it and why it never changed. Oh well, it looks great and with your S3D editor I think it is very fitting of the wisdom behind it.

[skwasjer]

Yes I have, but truth be told, I'm not responsible for my avatar. longam asked Neal to put this avatar up for me, and it took me over 2 months to realize it myself :rotfl:
Dang it, skwas, please be careful of the timing of your jokes:rotfl:I just cleaned my monitor and this mouthful of Gatorade would have made a huge sticky mess to clean up.
Don't worry, before I posted it, I proclaimed to all readers:

"Thou shalt not spit..."

:ping:

[Digital_Trucker]

Don't worry, before I posted it, I proclaimed to all readers:

"Thou shalt not spit..."

:ping:
lo and behold, it worketh:o I dideth not spit and I wonderest why I dideth not spit. Now I knoweth:yep:

Exiteth stage left (before I'm accused of being a really bad imitator of John Cleese.):arrgh!:

[Anvart]

Hi, Skwas.
Good work.
But not so convenient control for camera ... small (low) sensitivity for linear moving (and not convenient buttons for mouse ... maybe for rot. - left but., for linear moving - right but., zoom - wheel)...
And in "Show All" mode i would like to have functions "Hide" (and "Unhide All") for selected object ...
and maybe add smooth ...

[DrBeast]

Some people are never happy! :rotfl:
Me, I'll be toasting to skwasjer every time I'll be on an outing! Oh, and if I ever happen to be at the beach during sunset, to Dave as well.

Vacation time is upon me, I'll see you guys in September! :up:

[longam]

Yes I have, but truth be told, I'm not responsible for my avatar. longam asked Neal to put this avatar up for me, and it took me over 2 months to realize it myself :rotfl:
Dang it, skwas, please be careful of the timing of your jokes:rotfl:I just cleaned my monitor and this mouthful of Gatorade would have made a huge sticky mess to clean up. Don't worry, before I posted it, I proclaimed to all readers:

"Thou shalt not spit..."

:ping:
http://www.longam.net/sh4/skwasjer/zeus.jpg

I think it's time to bump it up to coolness with some kelp sunglasses. :lol:

[lurker_hlb3]

S3D v9 bug report.



When importing a .dat file with a nod that has an embedded 3D model, SH4 will CTD when the .dat file with the new 3D model comes into visual range.


Background

I have used S3D to edit / change / import .dat files for both RSRDC / OM for a while now. I have always been able to import nodes with 3D models in the past without problem. With v9 I’m have a “re-creatable on demand” CTD when I attempt to add nodes with 3D models in them.

The following test case is the procedures I use for the importation of nodes with 3D models and have use these steps with older versions of S3D without problems.
create working directory
copy NDD_Clemson.dat & NTR.dat into the working directory
launch S3D and open the NTR.dat file
select and expand (7) Node – NTR then select and expand (12) Node – NTR_B
select (21) NTR_barca_03 and remove “parent id” so that the node is now is a “standalone”
Repeat step last step with NTR_barca_06.
select (7) Node – NTR and delete
Keep “empty” nodes 3 & 5 as they are required “material” nodes for NTR_barca_03 and NTR_barca_06 and delete the remaining “empty” node.
Select and execute “Remap ID’s” on the file.
save NTR.dat then use the “save as” option to save the file with the name zzz.dat
delete “AuthorInfo”, Start, End, Unknown chunk, Index and Eof from zzz.dat
save file zzz.dat
open NDD_Clemson.dat
select (7) Node – NDD_Clemson
use the right mouse button to select “import”, then dat.file
Select zzz.dat and select yes when ask to import 10 chunks.
Save file.
backup original NDD_ Clemson.dat in SH4, the copy in new file
create test mission under “Single Missions” with the Clemson Class DD. Ensure own sub is at least 75km from Clemson Class DD.
launch SH4 and then test mission
head sub to the Clemson Class DD location.
When own subs is with in range of the Clemson to be seen, SH4 will CTD.

[skwasjer]

Thanks for the detailed description. Can you also send/upload the .dat file. If I for one reason do not do it exactly like you do (or you missed a step), I may be hunting for a bug for ages. I'd like to compare it with an actual file. But the walkthrough is excellent for sure, people, take note!

[lurker_hlb3]

Thanks for the detailed description. Can you also send/upload the .dat file. If I for one reason do not do it exactly like you do (or you missed a step), I may be hunting for a bug for ages. I'd like to compare it with an actual file. But the walkthrough is excellent for sure, people, take note!


Currently unable but will be able to tomorrow. I'm not currently in the same location as my development computer.

[skwasjer]

Well, no hurry. Saturday, I'm on shore leave so I can't really do much until I'm back.

I have no idea what may be the cause though. I haven't really touched that part of S3D, and while working on the fans I've used similar functionality. But who knows what odd bug you've run in to...

[Anvart]

Some people are never happy!
...
If you about youself ... i condole with you ...
If you about me... you are mistaken ...
Simply, I would like to have greater use of program (for me) and to use it not only as a browser ...
...
But i (obviously) speak with "childness" ...

[THE_MASK]

It is sarcasm, not to be taken literally .

[Sailor Steve]

Anvart, this (:rotfl: ) always means a joke.

[lurker_hlb3]

S3D v9 bug report. Part 2

This morning I decided to reload S3D v82 to generate a test case to show that the importation of nodes with 3D models was working correctly prior to v9. To may surprise, using the same steps that I reported earlier, SH4 CTD at the same spot.

I continue additional testing until I could get it to work as I had done with other 3D models in the pass. Once that was compete, I de-installed S3D v82 and loaded v9 and repeated the “new” set of steps that worked with v82. When run SH4 there were “no” CTD using the v9 version of the test case.

It appears that SH4 is “very sensitive” to the placement of 3D model files within the .dat file and the uses or non-uses of a “parent” node ID

Here is the “revised” set of steps I used to get the .dat file to work correctly in SH4:

( new steps are in red )


create working directory
copy NDD_Clemson.dat & NTR.dat into the working directory
launch S3D and open the NTR.dat file
select and expand (7) Node – NTR then select and expand (12) Node – NTR_B
select (21) NTR_barca_03 and remove “parent id” so that the node is now is a “standalone”
Repeat step last step with NTR_barca_06.
select (7) Node – NTR and delete
Keep “empty” nodes 3 & 5 as they are required “material” nodes for NTR_barca_03 and NTR_barca_06 and delete the remaining “empty” node.
Select and execute “Remap ID’s” on the file.
Open NDD_Clemson.dat file and copied the node ID of “NDD_Clemson_B”
Added the node ID of “NDD_Clemson_B” to the parent ID slot of NTR_barca_03 and NTR_barca_06.
save NTR.dat then use the “save as” option to save the file with the name zzz.dat
delete “AuthorInfo”, Start, End, Unknown chunk, Index and Eof from zzz.dat
save file zzz.dat
open NDD_Clemson.dat
select (71) Node cfg#W02_NDD_Clemson
use the right mouse button to select “import”, then dat.file
Select zzz.dat and select yes when ask to import 10 chunks.
Noted that NTR_barca_03 and NTR_barca_06 were “after” Node cfg#W02_NDD_Clemson and where “children to “NDD_Clemson_B” node.
Save file. backup original NDD_ Clemson.dat in SH4, the copy in new file
create test mission under “Single Missions” with the Clemson Class DD. Ensure own sub is at least 75km from Clemson Class DD.
launch SH4 and then test mission
head sub to the Clemson Class DD location and arrived a location and was able o see the newly modified Clemson Class DD’s
In the following link you will find a compressed file with the following:

CTDTEST

This folder / directory has a JSGME ready test mission for recreating the problem

ORG

This folder / directory continues the original NDD_Clemson.dat & NTR.dat files

V82

This folder / directory continues the S3D v82 NDD_Clemson.dat, NTR.dat & zzz.dat files that were used to added new 3D models and works without problem.

V90

This folder / directory continues the S3D v90 NDD_Clemson.dat, NTR.dat & zzz.dat files that were used to added new 3D models and works without problem.

V90_tst2

This folder / directory continues “second” test run of the S3D v90 NDD_Clemson.dat, NTR.dat & zzz.dat files that were used to added new 3D models and works without problem.


V90_broke

This folder / directory continues the S3D v90 NDD_Clemson.dat, NTR.dat & zzz.dat files that were used using the “original” test case and “will” cause SH4 to CTD.


Link

http://files.filefront.com/s3dctdtestrar/;11022116;/fileinfo.html

[skwasjer]

Ah I see. Yea, the import dat-file works the same as with raw chunks. The insertion point is from the node you have currently selected, so you usually just have to point to one of the nodes at the end of the file (or at the end of all child nodes of a certain node) before importing.

The ordering of individual chunks is very important. Child nodes/objects can't be in front (index wise) of a parent. Model and material chunks must also exist before a node uses them. If not done, you will be guaranteed to get a CTD.

The change of parent id's is not really necessary in between, you can also do it after importing but that's only a procedural thing. Whatever works.

[skwasjer]

Some techical yada yada:

I finally managed to debug the entire StateMachineClass controller (AnimGraphs folder). Until now, I always missed a couple of pieces of the puzzle and always missed the time to find out. It still requires some more work to integrate support into the S3D UI, but what this controller will allow you to do is 'script' all the behaviors of all 3D crew (interior), including (but not limited to) what sentence they speak, their facial expressions (normal, angry, etc), their tone of voice (normal, angry, etc), what type of (character) animation is played when specific orders are executed, where the eyes will look at during specific orders etc.

There are a whole lot of possibilities when this support is available to the modder. For instance, correcting speech/animation bugs, but also to change how the crew reacts to certain orders (ie: turn divewheel to left, play speech order 'Rudder left'), when a collision occurs, when they get wounded, when you hit/miss a torpedo, etc.

Do note that this controller does not control/contain the actual 3D (mesh) animations. It controls the state of the actual character, what animation is played when, etc, and in what sequence. Together with the already supported lipsync controller, the crew behaviors can be further improved.

Support for mesh and bone animations, which will allow full control over all the bones (parts of the body) will follow in time. Meshanim support is already in development for some time, and the character part (ie. marine.dat) is the final piece of the DAT-puzzle to integrate. Apart from a couple of minor things I've now come close to supporting the full DAT-format (currently 97-98% of all data is supported).

No release date, but I just wanted to share the good news :up:

[LukeFF]

Excellent news!

[THE_MASK]

This just gets better and better:D

[SquareSteelBar]

ssshhhh....be quiet, mates. Genius at work! :yep:

[Jaeger]

(currently 97-98% of all data is supported).


amazing work:rock: . but i still dont understand this sentence. does that mean modders can change 97-98% of all the changeable options a sdk could change? does that mean everything of non-hardcoded content is changeable with your tool? i am not a modder, i only follow the technique discussions here with high interest...


greetz, Jaeger

[skwasjer]

(currently 97-98% of all data is supported).


amazing work:rock: . but i still dont understand this sentence. does that mean modders can change 97-98% of all the changeable options a sdk could change? does that mean everything of non-hardcoded content is changeable with your tool? i am not a modder, i only follow the technique discussions here with high interest...


greetz, Jaeger
Hi Jaeger, a SDK could contain more tools and even source code, so it depends a little.

But to give you an idea, the DAT-file format is used by roughly 5000 stock files in both SH3/SH4/UBM combined and makes up the bulk of the game (textures, audio and non-binary data like cfg/txt not counting). In essence, there's not much binary data/files left to support by S3D or other tools. There are a couple of file extensions left that are not supported by S3D right now but there's some other tools that do (ie. terrain extractor) so there's no real point for me unless I am REALLY bored.

So yea, the percentage indicates most game data can now be worked with by the modders.

What is not supported (and never will be) is actual (hard)coded game behavior, which makes up the actual software part (.exe, .dll, .act). This would require source code, per SDK. This will not likely happen however.

[Jaeger]

(currently 97-98% of all data is supported).


amazing work:rock: . but i still dont understand this sentence. does that mean modders can change 97-98% of all the changeable options a sdk could change? does that mean everything of non-hardcoded content is changeable with your tool? i am not a modder, i only follow the technique discussions here with high interest...


greetz, Jaeger
Hi Jaeger, a SDK could contain more tools and even source code, so it depends a little.

But to give you an idea, the DAT-file format is used by roughly 5000 stock files in both SH3/SH4/UBM combined and makes up the bulk of the game (textures, audio and non-binary data like cfg/txt not counting). In essence, there's not much binary data/files left to support by S3D or other tools. There are a couple of file extensions left that are not supported by S3D right now but there's some other tools that do (ie. terrain extractor) so there's no real point for me unless I am REALLY bored.

So yea, the percentage indicates most game data can now be worked with by the modders.

What is not supported (and never will be) is actual (hard)coded game behavior, which makes up the actual software part (.exe, .dll, .act). This would require source code, per SDK. This will not likely happen however.

thanks for your replay, now i understand better:up:

[SquareSteelBar]

Hi skwasjer,

when I load SH3 scene.dat in S3D v0.9 I wondered if this file is fully supported by S3D.
I noticed in e.g. MiniTweaker are much more items available... :hmm:

Cheers,
SquareSteelBar

[skwasjer]

Yes, scene.dat is fully supported and has been for a very long time. Not every value in minitweaker is named the same in S3D though, because I use the actual game description. If you specify which values you see in MT that you can't find in S3D, me or others can point you to the right place.

[SquareSteelBar]

I was looking for WindHeadingChangeSpeed and WindSpeedChangeSpeed

Thanks in advance,
SquareSteelBar :up:

[Digital_Trucker]

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/2274/20080807110123rc5.jpg

[SquareSteelBar]

Thanks, DT :rock:

Very weird. I use a modded scene.dat [it works!]; it seems that it has been corrupted:

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/8827/scenedatpo3.jpg

I'm going to look for the error...

THX again. ;)

[Digital_Trucker]

Any time. That is strange. Of course, it might make a difference that I was looking at an SH4 scene.dat (haven't had SH3 installed in ages). Perhaps someone with SH3 could try opening the scene.dat to see if they have the same problem?

I don't know how much difference there is between the scene.dat in the two games, but there doesn't seem to be much difference in the screenies (other than the obvious problem one).

[SquareSteelBar]

The stock SH3 scene.dat was opened correctly in S3D. The error was in the modded one; finally I found it -> two faulty values...

Cheers,
SquareSteelBar :up:

[skwasjer]

Glad you found it, and yes, in case of a corruption, S3D just reads the data as a byte array where possible so you can at least work on the other parts in the file.

[skwasjer]

Just some status update, nothing big, and no release announcement...

I've got a bit confusing PM from Anvart that NightColor on Omni nodes is not actually the night color but something else. What is not really clear at this point but I hope Anvart can clarify it, and I will investigate it further. May explain some oddities people may have been experiencing with this field.

[edit] OK, Anvart just told me he doesn't know for sure and that it has to be tested further, so I will have to do some tests on this field.

Next, I have found out some more unknown data on material chunks, specifically rendering flags like 'Disable Z-buffer write' and 'Cull none'. These flags are important for single plane meshes (like railings) and (semi-)transparent meshes (like glass). If you are cloning incorrect materials, ingame the models may not be rendered correctly (for instance, railings may suddenly disappear from a certain angle due to culling, or objects behind glass are not rendered at all because they are clipped by the z-buffer). These new flags allow you to modify this behavior as well.