Ships Repair

[chopped50ford]

Will the fleet send a tender out to repair your sub...say if your rudder is blown off? IF not, what do you do then? End it all there and submerge to your death?

[simonb1612]

good question, I raised this issue as apotential for a future mod as it seems a waste of valuble materials and well trained sailors if there is no potential for rescue. I have no idea what the navy did in real life but if your radio is working you would think that the option to call for help would be a smart one...\Can any of the history buffs tell us whatthe SOP was for disabled boats?

[Suicide Charlie]

if your radio is working you would think that the option to call for help would be a smart one

And also a potentially dangerous one.

Radios aren't exclusive. Anybody who can reach that channel/frequency can listen in. The signal can also be used to track down positions.

While I don't doubt that if a crew was in distress they would be assisted in anyway possible, I don't think doing it via radio (unless all other forms of encrypted communications were disabled) would be how they did it.

[Reaves]

They radioed on U-571 :rotfl:

I know in Silent Service 2 you could radio for a tug boat to help if you ran out of fuel. I guess it all depends on how far away from friendly waters you are, but they certainly did assist damaged boats.

[Fearless]

I'd be reluctant to send a message based on that very main factor. Giving position away unless of course there were friendlies around that could assist.

[switch.dota]

In SH IV, dive as deep as the dial goes or simply load a previous save. Nothing else you CAN do.

[hyperion2206]

Come on guys, calling for help is the only way, I mean this is a game after all. Or do you want a mod that allows you to rig a mast and sail home?:p

[THE_MASK]

I dont think a mod for running out of fuel is needed . Where were bases with refuelling capabilities for allied subs and are they historically portrayed in SH4 at correct times etc . This is how i would approach the problem .

[Suicide Charlie]

I dont think a mod for running out of fuel is needed . Where were bases with refuelling capabilities for allied subs and are they historically portrayed in SH4 at correct times etc . This is how i would approach the problem .

Exactly. I've read a couple of posts here that were to the effect "I was patrolling, yada yada, and I ran out of fuel... Can I call for help?" Makes me smack my forehead. I realize the Silent Hunter interface can be a lot to take in if it's your first time really playing it, but people should the time to look around. The fuel meter is right there, not like in SH3 where you had to go to a report layout and try to read tiny tic marks (as in GWX). That's your job as a sub skipper, keeping track and effectively managing your resources.

I understand the damage scenario though. You're kind of S.o.L. if you don't want to hit the reset button.

[hyperion2206]

But what if your diesel engines are destroyed or they've blown your rudder to pieces?
I agree that a skipper who didn't pay attention to his fuel consumption should be court martialed but your mod ideas with the bases doesn't help if your boat is too damaged to move again.

[simonb1612]

I agree that sending a radio message bears the risk of interception but I assume that the USN had the capability to encode and decode messages on each vessel(history buffs can prove me incorrect on this :)). While this would not overcome the chance of the transmission being triangulated upon by the enemy, they would only get a rough fix on you. At present, I dont believe the game accounts for this whenever you send a status update or target spotted message. If the game did "hear" your transmission then it would add a bit of excitement as you could try to evade with whatever facilities you have left (dive & resurface etc) or you just play possum and wait to see arrives first.
A fighting chance is all I ask.

[gg5056]

I save games in career mode. so if I get killed, i just go back to the last saved
and start again, so I never died.

[buzzinbill]

I couldv'e swore I read (here or UBI) that the 1.3 patch was supposed to have gave one the option to call for help. But I didn't see it mentioned or appear in the patch , like I said I may be wrong , could have dreamed it , or I could have just had a powerful "420 happy hour". But if a "mod" like this or (something like it) would be a bad idea ... IMHO ...that is.

And as slick as the Modder's "are" here , could have that licked in 20 mouse clicks,
(counting the upload one) ..I've noticed something , since joining this forum. And thats when you put your heads together , things get done , idea's turn into mods.
which seem to spawn other idea's that in turn add to make the game even better for everyone (the newbie and the veteran) But then again I just pulled a 12 hour night shift , and mind and body are tired , if something simple as a "fix" as that would keep someone playing wouldn't it be worth it , to try? :sunny:

[mookiemookie]

I save games in career mode. so if I get killed, i just go back to the last saved
and start again, so I never died.
Doesn't help us "dead is dead" folks. :doh:

[Sailor Steve]

But what if your diesel engines are destroyed or they've blown your rudder to pieces?
I agree that a skipper who didn't pay attention to his fuel consumption should be court martialed but your mod ideas with the bases doesn't help if your boat is too damaged to move again.
Any real ship with two separate propellors could use them to steer. It's not very effecient, but it can be done. In fact, that's how Bismarck was trying to make progress with her rudders jammed. Unfortunately we can't do that in the game.

If the engines were destroyed the hull would probably be breached as well, and the sub would be gone. Even if they survived, they were out of luck. There were cases of survivors at sea being picked up by friendly aircraft...or enemy. Those were two of the options in SH1 - Abandon Ship and Call For Help. In either case you ran the risk of dying at sea or being rescued by the bad guys.

[tater]

The only mod I could think of (there is no rescue in game) would be somethng like a script that you would apply to a save game.

You get the diesel tank holed, or engines destroyed and you are stuck. So you'd save the game there, exit, then run a script that would edit the save game and repair the system and add 25% fuel or so.

An alternative posibility might be for it to alter the file to place you just inside the RTB radius of your home port (assume you got a tow from a friendly sub or something). Possibly there is a way to force you to get a new boat (then the assumption might be the crew was pulled off and the boat scuttled.

Several boats were crippled/grounded/etc and were rescued during the war. Usually the crew was pulled off (into another sub) and the boat sunk. Sometimes a skeleton crew stayed aboard and brought the boat home.

I have no idea how that might be done, but it seems possible.

[Suicide Charlie]

Those were two of the options in SH1 - Abandon Ship and Call For Help. In either case you ran the risk of dying at sea or being rescued by the bad guys.

I'd at least like to see this. Some kind of closure for use "dead means dead" guys who don't like to re-load when things don't go our way. Gives us some kind of closure or possible continuation.

[hyperion2206]

Those were two of the options in SH1 - Abandon Ship and Call For Help. In either case you ran the risk of dying at sea or being rescued by the bad guys.
I'd at least like to see this. Some kind of closure for use "dead means dead" guys who don't like to re-load when things don't go our way. Gives us some kind of closure or possible continuation.

SH1 had such a feature, Aces of the Deep had it as well, so I can't imagine that it was too complicated to implement it. I guess the devs weren't granted enough time to do it.:hmm:

[FIREWALL]

I think we all know what we can't do.

I think this thread was started so we might come up with an alternitive for what we can do.

If it isn't hard coded it probably can be modded so we have an additional option.

Maybe our "GREAT MODDERS" will let us know if we ask nice. :yep:

For myself i'm going to pm Captain Cox. :D

[chopped50ford]

Lots of great input with history to back it up.

If there is no "rescue" or "at sea" repair, its unfortunate. But there should be some kid of SOS that you can call out; knick your record, and back on to another boat so your career doesnt end right there....maybe put you back on an older boat if you were late into the war...

It would be nice if a mod for a tender or another boat/ship could moor next to the crippled ship or boat or render "at sea" repairs. Even use Real time repairs; while your own and supporting ship crew members man battlestations (ie: guns and AA guns) during the process. Sort of like a shark watch while you swim the deep???

The germans had such a thing didnt they? At least that's what they portrayed in U-571. :D

Sweet Forums...Im going to like it here!

[tater]

US didn't send tenders out for that kind of thing. the most likely thing was another sub.

tater

[Suicide Charlie]

US didn't send tenders out for that kind of thing. the most likely thing was another sub.

tater
Now that would be an interesting mission objective. Locate and rendevous with a crippled sub and tow her back to base. The trip back would be hard. Slow going on no ability to dive away from danger.

[chopped50ford]

well, it happened, ran out of fuel. My first career patrol from Pearl to Japan. While on the way, refuel in Midway. By the time I get to Japan, and pull off another mission from command, I have no fuel to even get back. I am a few days travel on the surface and PD short. up, down, up, down...what a suck way to conserve fuel.

What gives :damn:

A supply sub or ship would be great. Running out of fuel, or playing for hours to see if you make it home...and you dont...really sucks and adds frustration to a nights play.

Basically, I have to start all over now. :down:

I have read here in the forums that the batteries recharge themselves? I dont think that is the case anymore in 1.3...I floated for 5 days (speeding up time) and the battery charge meter did not move.

I notice Guam and other ports on the map, but there are no anchors...can we pull in to port and refuel there or do the Anchors symoboize US ports only.?

[Sailor Steve]

First, how fast were you going? At 10 knots you should have no problems getting there and back.

Second, spending time submerged shouldn't save fuel; recharging batteries in real life energy is always lost when transferring from one source to another. If the game doesn't reflect that, there's something wrong.

[ddrysdale]

If you look in the museum under us ship and support ships you will see sub tender ship. They may have intended to put it in the game.

[tater]

Sub tenders are already in game. They live in port and tend to your sub, that's where you get torpedos, etc.

tater

[Fearless]

The tenders are shown as striped anchors on the map.

[crash924]

Second, spending time submerged shouldn't save fuel; recharging batteries in real life energy is always lost when transferring from one source to another. If the game doesn't reflect that, there's something wrong.[/quote]
No,I don't think it works that way...if you start your car's engine, then disconnect the battery and generator, you still get the same mileage because you are still moving the same amount of mass,but if you could turn off the engine and only run on battery power, you wouldn't be using the liquid fuel, so yes, you do lose some energy in the transfer process, but not to a significant degree... I would think somewhere in the 1/4-1/2 of 1% range... I have rarely gotten below 10% of fuel remaining by running submerged during all daylight hours and only surfacing at night just long enough to recharge my batteries...I may be way off base here, I don't have any empirical knowledge, but maybe someone that has some historical background can jump in here and tell us?

[SteamWake]

No,I don't think it works that way...if you start your car's engine, then disconnect the battery and generator, you still get the same mileage because you are still moving the same amount of mass,

You are wrong. Belive it or not your alternator places a kinetic load on your engine in proportion to the load it is serving. By the way disconnecting your batt while the engine is running is a good way to blow out a voltage regulator. Dont try this at home :know:

Now I must point out that the 'recharging' system for a submarine in no way resembles your car. It is an actual generator serving loads 100 fold greater than your car battery. Again some of this energey production is expressed as kinetic load as well as friction and heat losses.

The amount of potential energy in a set of submarines battery is really quite staggering. Hopefully you can release that energy in a slow controlled manner.

I think in actuall practice you could 'stretch' your fuel a tiney bit by running submerged, however the trade off in time made good is not a good one.

[Sailor Steve]

Exactly right. Energy is energy. Burning fuel to drive the car takes energy. Anything placing a load on the engine - air conditioning, turbocharger, recharging the battery - diverts energy from the main function of providing propulsion.

In the submarine, the engines can run the boat, recharge the batteries, or both, depending on the system. The energy required to drive the propellors is the same, whether the diesels or the electric motors are doing the driving. It takes the same amount of energy to recharge the batteries as they give off, plus whatever it takes to provide propulsion at the same time. Also, you have to deal with the Second Law of Thermodynamics: In all energy exchanges, if no energy enters or leaves the system, the potential energy of the state will always be less than that of the initial state.

or

second law of thermodynamics (entropy) The energy available after a chemical reaction is less than that at the beginning of a reaction; energy conversions are not 100% efficient.

In other words, recharging the batteries will always use more energy (in this case fuel) than just driving the boat. Even if you could argue that energy is also lost during transfer to the propellor shafts, you would still use the same amount either way, but the battery way would be a whole lot slower.

One of the best notes on Thermodynamics is this from C.P. Snow:

You cannot win (that is, you cannot get something for nothing, because matter and energy are conserved).
You cannot break even (you cannot return to the same energy state, because there is always an increase in disorder; entropy always increases).
You cannot get out of the game (because absolute zero is unattainable).http://www.emc.maricopa.edu/faculty/farabee/biobk/BioBookEner1.html

[chopped50ford]

to clarify, you can only refuel and pick up torpedoes at ports assigned an "anchor"?

[mookiemookie]

to clarify, you can only refuel and pick up torpedoes at ports assigned an "anchor"?

Yes, striped anchors or solid blue ones are the only ports you can refuel or pick up torp's at.