View Full Version : [TEC] Taihosan Maru and AMMO don't mix
A note to anyone making missions. In 1.3, the internal cargo of AMMO plus the Taihosan (small modern composite merchant) are a 100% CTD when the sucker is torpedoed and blows up.
This means that ammo cannot be selected as an internal cargo for GENERIC merchants, either. If you want some ships to have ammo, you'll need to make them explicitly as different types. I have tested all merchant ships, but I still need to test the APs and AOs.
tater
OK, tested the tankers and liners, they work fine, it's just the one ship.
Mush Martin
07-12-07, 06:57 PM
boy thats interesting as a symptom
what do you suppose is wrong with the cargo
dynamic effect overwhelming chip capacity seems
a bit unlikely , I would suspect that in the ships
configs it doesnt support the cargo anymore but
somehow its been left in. the symptom is like
when a ship doesnt appear in roster and it tries
to spawn. just thinking out loud I guess.
M
Dunno. I put ammo as internal cargo on a small tanker. I fired at her from 600 yards. One of her masts landed 500 yards behind me. So the effects are pretty impressive on other ships as well.
tater
lurker said he's not seeing this. I uninstalled all my mods, then installed 1.3, perhaps I need a clean install.
Will report back. (wasn't looking forward to scragging SH4 and doing a fresh install since the last took a while (my baseline was 1.0->1.2 without playing, then JSGME snapshot, then mods)).
Dunno, perhaps something got corrupted, thought it's not like I screw with the 3d stuff since I don;t know how, lol.
tater
Clean install, still happens.
tater
lurker_hlb3
07-12-07, 09:52 PM
Here my test case. Create test mission with sub and small modern composite merchant.ship is DIW and set to "docked" so it won't move, set internal cargo of AMMO
Distance fro ship to sub is 1000 yards, fired 2 torpedo at target.
What is your test case ?
merchie moving at 5 kts in this case. Shot at 1100 yards or so. 1942 02 01
Just tried it 3 times. 2xCTD, 1 didn't. The 1 that didn't I spaced the 3 shots out and she went under before the 3d hit. The last one did it before the 3d fish hit (or maybe the instant it hit before any effects were seen).
tater
http://mpgtext.net/subshare/69Ammo%20CTD%20test.rar
^^^ test mission (no objectives so click to get in)
tater
Changed mission, added more ships. Same ship with ammo crates on deck. It's not the ammo, or the explosion, it's something it does to the ship---maybe breaking in half is broken and that is more likely with ammo cargo?
tater
http://www0.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/000c080fefc4980fb00a0874964b11c26g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=0br1mgtglwz&thumb=4)
Look at that image. I fired 10 torpedos at a taihosan (default depth) from 800 yards or so. It FINALLY broke, but it forms a scissors. That was broken aft of the superstructure. I wonder if it CTDs with it breaking in front... that destroyed ship is ONE PIECE.
If you look at that end-on, they are in line. The part hanging down to the right from the bow area is the INSIDE of the stern, and the area hanging down to the left from the stern is the INSIDE of the bow areas.
tater
lurker_hlb3
07-12-07, 11:15 PM
I'll give this a test in the morning. Right now my main system is being used by my son ( WoW). Will let you know
BTW, in case that image was not clear, part of the damage shown in the image was the INTERNALS attached to the stern going to the bow, and the intact external bow with the internals of the stern aft forming the "scissors."
I tested again. 2 x taihosan. One is a control, default cargo. the other has ammo.
Without ammo, I can NEVER get the ship to break forward of the superstructure, even with 6 torps tip to tail into the same hole under the forward goalpost.
I tried again with Natural Sinking Mechanics mod. I can hit the AMMO version in the aft hold, and I get ammo effect explosion, and the ship breaks cleanly aft of superstructure. Hit under the forwad goalpost (with 4 fish) and it CTDs.
I'm pretty confident it's a model problem that never got caught (maybe since the stock game uses NO cargo aside from default?). When the model tries to break under the forward hold, it CTDs.
BTW, I'm thinking this is NOT new with 1.3. I bet it just never came up before. No one playing the defaul campaign would ever see the problem since there is no "interesting" cargo ever used. So the only people who'd see it would be playing my campaign, or another mod campaign. This is the smallest merchant as well, so in a convoy it's the least likely to be attacked, and the least likely to get multiple fish if it is. Even in my campaign, the AMMO cargos are in generic merchants, so even if that merchant gets picked, there is only a 1 in 9 chance it's the small modern composite.
tater
Mush Martin
07-13-07, 08:10 AM
Tater is there a tweaker impulse setting for the cargo?
I have no idea, actually. I noticed the image that was inline last night doesn't work. Grrr.
Damn mediafire.
Would it be possible to remove this ship altogether? We would still have the other small merchie so it's not like there would be no small merchants at all..
Chuck
Removing the ship is easy, delete the file in the roster. I'd go that hard route I suggested above first myself since this is actually one of the most typical looking ships in the game and I'd hate to lose it. SH4 really lacks the small shipping the japanese depended on, particularly after 1942. the last thing I'd do would be to delete this one.
As I said, I'm pretty confident it's related to the way the model breaks under the forward hold. Modders can make whole ships from scratch, so it's gotta be possible to fix. That or just remove the forward "break" in the model altogether. The kind of damage that results in that sends her quickly to the bottom anyway.
I might install a "super torpedo" mod and see if that CTDs her. My feeling is that the extra cargo provides the boom needed to split the ship forward, and it CTDs when it splits.
tater
I tried again, and it doesn't seem to happen with default cargo. Odd, since I now have reports of it happening in the stock game---and there is nothing bu default cargo in the stock game.
tater
If this helps, as I turned the scope back toward him there was the brightest orange/red glow I have seen and then the CTD. If you ever find a solution thanks! In the meantime I will avoid them. lol
Mush Martin
07-13-07, 01:20 PM
Do any other ships break along the longtidudinal axis ?
(Im uninstalled for sh4 ATM)
Actually, she breaks properly. The long pieces you see are the INSIDE, but full width.
The bow part has a complete internal (inside decks, etc) stern, and the stern has a complete internal bow.
EXTERNAL_BOW____internal__stern
internal__bow____EXTERNAL_STERN
tater
Tried changing the critical chance for the keel in the new small merchant to 0.0 in zones.cfg. Didn't work.
Anyone have a zones.cfg from 1.2? Wonder what they changed...
Anyone have a zones.cfg from 1.2? Wonder what they changed...
Yes, I backed up Data 1.2 to my D: drive and have Zones.cfg. Do you want it?
Art
Dunno. Maybe I can use it, this is way outside my normal modding, lol. Sounds like the model is fubar, but you'd think I would have seen it before.
Oh well. Anyway Zones.cfg did change. 1.2 was C2B0 and 1.3 is C2B6. For the time being I just won't sink any or if I get ambitious I will delete the model....... LMAO
Just replace the folder with the one from 1.2, plus the power mod, krupps mod etc.. I think it would be specific to the ship model, therefore its the ship folder, a change made when they fixed power bug maybe..
This doesn't fix it...
maybe disabling the splitting effect will fix it
Does someone want to test this fix for me.. The bug is present in 1.2 aswell actually... This seems to fix it in that version, not tried in 1.3.
In the zip are files from 1.0, the dat and zon for the ship.
http://mpgtext.net/subshare/469Taihosan.zip
Seems to work ok in 1.3 too..
Ship still breaks sometimes, but in general, all the upperworks seem less destructable. She will still sink and catch fire etc, just stops the nasty CTD..
Feedback please... any probs...
Thanks for this. I'm having a hard time duplicating the shot to make it CTD now. It must work.
mgbmike
07-15-07, 10:57 AM
Does someone want to test this fix for me.. The bug is present in 1.2 aswell actually... This seems to fix it in that version, not tried in 1.3.
In the zip are files from 1.0, the dat and zon for the ship.
http://mpgtext.net/subshare/469Taihosan.zip
Seems to work ok in 1.3 too..
Ship still breaks sometimes, but in general, all the upperworks seem less destructable. She will still sink and catch fire etc, just stops the nasty CTD..
Feedback please... any probs...
After d/l'ing and installing your fix I set up a test mission with torpedo planes, swordfish w/torpedos, a PBY with bombs and a minefield against 4 Taihosan Marus loaded with internal ammo and external ammo containers. Sinkings worked OK...no CTD
Next up is a sub attack...
Jace, no CTD's this side.
Sank 'm about 20 times, breaking up on every possible spot, no CTD's.:up:
I think this will actually work as a fix.
It's something I'll have to remember though, heavily involved in testing the die slowly mod for 1.3. That mod changes all the ships.
Anyway, thumbs up:up:
Ditto, this works!
Thank you, thank you, Jace11.
BTW, here's a JSGME version to test:
http://mpgtext.net/subshare/934Taihosan%20Maru%20Fix%20(Jace11).rar (http://mpgtext.net/subshare/934Taihosan%20Maru%20Fix%20%28Jace11%29.rar)
tater
PUNT!
Jace11's fix is REQUIRED for 1.3. No exceptions!
If you do not run his fix you WILL CTD, it's just a matter of when.
tater
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