View Full Version : File list for 1.3
Can someone work out a list of the files that are new in 1.3...
Not all of them, just those that have been changed or added since 1.2...
This will help modders and maybe I will get round to releasing my supermod...
You're doing a supermod??
Tell us something about it please?
Reg
Bando
TheSatyr
07-10-07, 04:01 AM
I would wait for the official patch before doing anything. Rumor has it that the official patch will be a little bigger than the beta patch and with a few more fixes. But like I said,that's just a rumor from a German site.
(I suspect that a beta tester is going to get reamed by violating the NDA by putting that beta patch out).
III/JG26_Freddy
07-10-07, 06:29 AM
I ve tested this beta patch , very good , the compass now works in the interior fore , the dive gauges too !
The sounds are better ...
But it s not finished , now the periscope doesn t go up and down in 3D view in the conning tower camera :-?
I ve not seen all ....
TDK1044
07-10-07, 06:59 AM
I would wait for the official patch before doing anything. Rumor has it that the official patch will be a little bigger than the beta patch and with a few more fixes. But like I said,that's just a rumor from a German site.
(I suspect that a beta tester is going to get reamed by violating the NDA by putting that beta patch out).
You got that right. Much more importantly, the ability of the Devs to have patches Beta tested in the real world has now been compromised. It will now be almost impossible to allow selected members here and at other respected forums to Beta test Ubisoft patches and games. So, while everyone jumps for joy at downloading a patch that is weeks old and out of date, the bigger picture is very worrying.
Uber Gruber
07-10-07, 07:39 AM
You mean UBI might have to start beta testing their games themselves?!!!
Heaven Forbid!!!! :nope:
TDK1044
07-10-07, 07:46 AM
I think Ubisoft's problem is production schedule duration. If you don't allow sufficient time for a game to be developed then your Beta tests are of little value. Such was the case with SH4. if this game had been given the additional 3 or 4 months of development that it needed, then it would have been released in the state that patch 1.3 will now put it.
Takeda Shingen
07-10-07, 07:47 AM
You mean UBI might have to start beta testing their games themselves?!!!
Heaven Forbid!!!! :nope:
Testing with your own controlled conditions is valuable. Testing in the real world is more valuable. TDK is simply pointing out the fact that this will be more difficult for Ubi in the future. That, of course, does not pan out well for the player, nor for the desire of further completed games out of the box.
Uber Gruber
07-10-07, 07:55 AM
@TDK and Takida
Your points are both valid and well versed. But if UBI insists on releasing a game before its completed then what value is beta testing to the player, in house or public ?
The player still ends up with a duff game regardless.
TDK1044
07-10-07, 08:13 AM
@TDK and Takida
Your points are both valid and well versed. But if UBI insists on releasing a game before its completed then what value is beta testing to the player, in house or public ?
The player still ends up with a duff game regardless.
I understand your point, but I think a more fair statement would be "The player ends up with a game that requires serious patching after release" This leak fiasco just makes things a lot harder.
dean_acheson
07-10-07, 08:23 AM
This one has kinda already gone OT.
It's kinda bad, I think, that the patch got slipped out. I don't know how it happened, but it did.
I don't think that it is that troubling. I mean, the game did get out in some countries before you could even do a digital download here in the states.
I guess somebody let this slip out on a server.
It ain't the end of the world. But it ain't official either. I am very very happy that UBI decided to put the efforts into making the patch, I hope that this doesn't cause them to quit all work on the game, but also, I don't think we fans should be blamed for it.
I hope, for one, to get back to SH4, I kinda put it down, despite the fact that I love it, because I got tired of CTDs after sinking a few ships and getting through chunks of a patrol. Now, that is partly my fault for using TC and mods, but without the mods, somethings didn't work right.
So, there it is, at least my .02 cents. Maybe this thread needed to wait, or needs to wait, until the patch is official unless we find out that there ain't going to be many changes in the offical patch.
Similar discussions have happened every single time Il-2 patches have been leaked. Which is to say every time there has been a patch. The interesting thing is that it is usually not some nefarious source, but ubi (or 1C for Il-2 a couple times) putting the bloody thing on a public server (perms on the file and the directory all set for the world to see it). My rant here is really that they don't pay attention to the most basic rules of running a website.
Putting something on a public server IS releasing it by definition. Having a readable directory on ANY machine on the net is no different that putting a magazine on a shelf in a public place. You might not mean or want it released, but if you make it possible for someone to grab it, you have no right to complain when they do.
So every time (with il-2) this happens, they throw the thing on some server, then someone in a forum they also own finds it and posts the link, and they have a hissy fit. They could have saved the trouble by simply typing "chmod 700 patch.exe", but I gather that was too much trouble.
This isn't even a security issue since by definition, if the owner published something in an insecure way, it's not the end user's fault if they go out and get it, that's the point of publishing publically.
So yeah, we should wait for the real thing, but there is no moral high ground here assuming what I read (that it came off ubi's site) is true.
I said something on the il-2 forums each time this happened (they NEVER learn): fire your webmaster, and or hire a sysadmin who has 1/2, even 1/10th a clue.
If what I read was wrong, and it was published by someone else other than the owners of the file, ignore the above. :)
tater
Putting something on a public server IS releasing it by definition. Having a readable directory on ANY machine on the net is no different that putting a magazine on a shelf in a public place. You might not mean or want it released, but if you make it possible for someone to grab it, you have no right to complain when they do.
So every time (with il-2) this happens, they throw the thing on some server, then someone in a forum they also own finds it and posts the link, and they have a hissy fit. They could have saved the trouble by simply typing "chmod 700 patch.exe", but I gather that was too much trouble.
This isn't even a security issue since by definition, if the owner published something in an insecure way, it's not the end user's fault if they go out and get it, that's the point of publishing publically.
I disagree:down:
Some days ago I was in Vienna and I could notice a detail I remembered well from my first visit already 15 years ago: The newspapers are on shelves near boxes where you put the money. People pick freely their newspaper and put the coin in the box, and NOBODY controls that. Yet it seems to have worked for at least the 15 years I remembered. Why? Education. Principles. Sure, UBI could have been more careful, but it's the IDIOTS with lack of education and principles that go around trying to find leaks who ruin the scene for the majority of educated and responsable ones.:nope:
That doesn't make a good anaology to the web.
There is not "honor system" on the web and there never has been. Publishing on the web means putting something someplace where "other" (in unix terms) can read it. Period.
If this was not the case, how would you know ANY page you visit isn't beta? I view a story on an online newspaper—is it the real story, or an internal version waiting for fact checking or editing? How would I possibly know?
The owner has 100% control of who can see what files. In this case they CHOSE to publish it in the hopes no one would find it I guess.
I guess the magazine analogy would be this. You have a magazine with a big graphic on the front that says "FREE! Take me!" on it. You don't put it on the front shelf, but put some other magazines that cost money on top of it hoping no one notices it.
tater
That doesn't make a good anaology to the web.
The analogy was not about newspapers. It was about education and principles. I guess that does (or should) also translate to the web as it is after all a matter of the people, be them in the street or at their PCs.
Uber Gruber
07-10-07, 09:53 AM
I have to agree with tater here....the nature of the web is such that people have to search for info, else we'd be inundated with people pushing content on us. Therefore, if its freely available on the web then its freely available. The honour system just can't apply in this regard.
That said, I do believe that honour, integrity and chivalry have massively declined over the years. I'd like to say its purely a matter of education, sadly its more due to the self-interest and greed nature of society which in turn is driven by big business and their government lackys.
Oooppps....sorry, thats the speach for the meeting down at the docks tomorrow. :doh:
RIP Bill Hicks:rock:
That doesn't make a good anaology to the web.
The analogy was not about newspapers. It was about education and principles. I guess that does (or should) also translate to the web as it is after all a matter of the people, be them in the street or at their PCs.
Again, what principle? On the net, the definition of publishing for public use is to place somethng where the public can find it, with the permissions set to allow them to do so.
By definition.
Anything on the web that is not protected is free. If the standard (at all levels of education and principles) was that everything was free to take unless marked with a price, and you found an unmarked item, it would be principle-neutral to take it since that would be the assumption. That IS the assumption on the net. The paradigm is one of free content where the owner has total control of access.
Protecting files from casual users is a JOKE. It's easy.
If we were talking about a HACK to get at the file(s), you'd be right. Say they were passwd protected, for example, but the passwd was a lame, default passwd. If a user guess the passwd to get the file, he'd be in the wrong, even if the passwd choice was stupid on the part of the owner. The fact he was asked to supply a passwd would be proof that the file was not public. Guessing it and getting the file would be morally wrong. If the file was open to take, sorry, there is not a moral issue here, it's an issue of competance on the part of the owner since they have no reasonable expectation of privacy if they make zero effort to make it private.
tater
BTW, I'm sorry for taking this OT, Jace11.
Jace11's point is valid, a list of changed files would be extremely useful, whenever the final version is out.
<S>
tater
BTW, I'm sorry for taking this OT, Jace11.
Jace11's point is valid, a list of changed files would be extremely useful, whenever the final version is out.
Apologizes also from me:oops: . Opened the topic and readed it until I came to tater's comment and then I also forgot the initial theme:oops:
John Channing
07-10-07, 10:39 AM
Close but no cigar.
What happened (and a lot of the theories I am reading are incorrect) will much more likely have the effect of ending any participation by the community in the testing proceedure. Instead all testing will be done in-house (and to the commedians up in the cheap-seats... yes the game was put through internal QA).
The problem with that is even if you allow enough development time for an apparently bug free (?) release, and then sufficient QA time, all they are going to be looking for is crashes and "If I push this, does that happen". QA types are, by necessity, generalists... one week on SH4 the next week on "ZELDA: Adventures in Cleveland" or whatever. They wouldn't know an accurate TDC from a torpedo tube, nor should they. They are just looking for obvious code, resource and conflict problems.
It is the specialists (us) who can help to take a game from the realm of good to great. But this little adventure may put an end to that.
Nope... whoever did this really screwed us this time, all of us. No two ways about it.
JCC
John Channing
07-10-07, 10:40 AM
Damn... I wish I type faster. OK... I went OT too... so shoot me! :D
JCC
AVGWarhawk
07-10-07, 10:51 AM
Damn... I wish I type faster. OK... I went OT too... so shoot me! :D
JCC
Only if we can discuss the rate of fire when we go to shoot you:D;). We want ROF historically correct. We can use the deck gun right????
Uber Gruber
07-10-07, 11:08 AM
What happened (and a lot of the theories I am reading are incorrect) will much more likely have the effect of ending any participation by the community in the testing proceedure. Instead all testing will be done in-house (and to the commedians up in the cheap-seats... yes the game was put through internal QA).
Considering the community participated in the testing of SH4 (I think you were one of them weren't you John) and yet it still was a fiasco then I see no value in the community participating in future testing.
So we can all now relax and get back on topic....
TDK1044
07-10-07, 01:03 PM
[/quote]
Considering the community participated in the testing of SH4 (I think you were one of them weren't you John) and yet it still was a fiasco then I see no value in the community participating in future testing.
[/quote]
Goes back to my original point. Beta testing is only useful if you're testing the most recent version of the game and the DEVs have time to implement your catches. Some very good people Beta tested SH4, but the production schedule was always destined to win. Many of the things the testers found, arrived as fixes in 1.1 and 1.2.
Uber Gruber
07-10-07, 03:17 PM
I suppose what i'm trying to say is that if UBI release something before its finished then anyone that buys it becomes a defacto beta tester. Furthermore, they will surely find the same bugs, and more, that the beta testers from this community found.
So I see no advantage having beta testers from this community, hence not a problem that the beta 1.3 was leaked. In fact it maintains the status quo as we all effectively purchased the beta 1.0 release.
elanaiba
07-10-07, 03:24 PM
Long story short, the community will always help the dev team make a better game, through beta testing and other means. Its a very ingrate job, though.
However, I don't see how it affects the generals public life. If you don't want to help beta-test, for sure you won't. If you don't feel it has a value, ok.
We have guys flooding us with pages of calculus and tables on how to produce a better battery discharge time, so yeah, things do help ;)
Uber Gruber
07-10-07, 03:40 PM
@elanaiba
Thats good to hear elanaiba and also means that the "leak" of the 1.3 patch shouldn't have a negative effect on this communities involvement with beta testing in the future...or did I miss something ?
elanaiba
07-10-07, 03:43 PM
That may be out of my hands.
Uber Gruber
07-10-07, 04:05 PM
Well either the communities input is valued or its not. If its valued then great, if not then no big loss given UBI's approach to releases. My gut feeling is UBI doesn't need this community to beta test if it releases beta games to general public anyway.
The General
07-10-07, 04:14 PM
That may be out of my hands.elanaiba, are you one of the Devs?
CaptainCox
07-10-07, 04:15 PM
He is indeed!
The General
07-10-07, 04:18 PM
Holy *%$&! Can't we think of some decent questions for the man, while we have his attention?
elanaiba
07-10-07, 04:18 PM
Well either the communities input is valued or its not. If its valued then great, if not then no big loss given UBI's approach to releases. My gut feeling is UBI doesn't need this community to beta test if it releases beta games to general public anyway.
Some people value it and push for it. Sometimes its swimming against the current and things like this leak put a strong current to swim against.
Dan, a dev indeed.
elanaiba
07-10-07, 04:19 PM
Holy *%$&! Can't we think of some decent questions for the man, while we have his attention?
Calm down, I'm not going anywhere :) I've been here from the SH3 days as a user, and before that as a reader.
The General
07-10-07, 04:20 PM
I didn't know! I have so many questions, I don't know where to start?!
The General
07-10-07, 04:22 PM
@ elanaiba
1) How did you feel about the reaction of this community to the release of SH4?
2) Would you like to work on a SH5?
etc...
John Channing
07-10-07, 04:25 PM
Well either the communities input is valued or its not. If its valued then great, if not then no big loss given UBI's approach to releases. My gut feeling is UBI doesn't need this community to beta test if it releases beta games to general public anyway.
You simplfy things too much. And even when you hear it from the horses mouth you refuse to listen.
You must be in IT :D .
JCC
I'm waiting for the official patch. But, in the meantime, can someone help Jace11 get a head start on the changes? Sure, there will be more in the final release, but this patch floating around now has a lot in it.
Uber Gruber
07-10-07, 04:34 PM
A condescending post from you John..why am I not suprised. You know it really does let the forum down, especially from a moderator.
Anyway, if you would be so kind, please show me where in my posts I have refused to listen ?
Much obliged.
The General
07-10-07, 04:40 PM
Well, at least John has a wicked sense of humour, which is more than I can say for you buddy.
THE_MASK
07-10-07, 04:51 PM
@ elanaiba
1) How did you feel about the reaction of this community to the release of SH4?
2) Would you like to work on a SH5?
etc...
How could Dan possibly start answering general questions on this forum . He would never have any time to do other things like supplying us with a fab patch .
The General
07-10-07, 04:53 PM
And that's the irony.
John Channing
07-10-07, 05:14 PM
A condescending post from you John..why am I not suprised. You know it really does let the forum down, especially from a moderator.
Anyway, if you would be so kind, please show me where in my posts I have refused to listen ?
Much obliged.
Well, seeing as you asked nicely...
You start off with...
"then I see no value in the community participating in future testing"
Terry supplies you with a reasonable possibility to which you reply...
"So I see no advantage having beta testers from this community"
Then Dan, the Lead Designer on the project, takes you through it, to which you reply…
"My gut feeling is UBI doesn't need this community to beta test
Maybe it's an idiom thing.
But I gotta tell you, I am shocked… shocked I tell you, to find out you have a problem with condescending posts. Especially in light of …
"You mean UBI might have to start beta testing their games themselves?!!! Heaven Forbid!!!! "
...and
"Considering the community participated in the testing of SH4 (I think you were one of them weren't you John) yet it still was a fiasco …"
JCC
TDK1044
07-10-07, 05:41 PM
Apologies to the OP for myself and others going off topic, but this Beta leak is a very big deal in regard to future testing opportunities. Some folks just don't get it.
The efforts of the 'Real World' Beta testers helped Dan and his team get 1.1 and 1.2 out to us pretty quickly. Without the contributions of a few members here and at other Forums, the future is pretty bleak for improvements beyond the scope of the modders.
Nobody knows a game better than smart people who play it. That feedback is vital for the Devs.
This leak is a disaster.
Uber Gruber
07-10-07, 05:46 PM
John, please review the posts again. You will see that Terry's reply to which you refer contained he following sentence:
Beta testing is only useful if you're testing the most recent version of the game and the DEVs have time to implement your catches.
Alas the dev's did not have time to implement the catches, they were implemented after release...hence there was no advantage gained from beta testing by this community.
Then dan replies that "the community will always help the dev team make a better game" which is good news as I believe this to be very true. Yet he continues to add that he is afraid it is beyiond his control if this community will be involved in future beta testing. If this is the case then this implies that UBI doesn't need beta testing by this community, for if it decides to discontinue it then it must be of insufficient value to UBI.
And lastly, but i'm sure not leastly, the last two quotes are not condescneding. The first is sarcasm and the second is a statement containing a question.
There really shouldn't be any need for me to have to explain this, please just re-read the posts.
And just to make sure the point is not lost in all this silly postering, beta testing is valuable when bugs are identified that can be fixed prior to a products release. However, if those bugs are not fixed then beta becomes a mute point as the same bugs will be detected by the general public...as was, and continues to be, the case.
If anything, you should direct any frustration at UBI for releasing a beta product....thus invalidating this communities hard work on beta testing.
Hope this helps to clarify any confusion.
TDK1044
07-10-07, 06:02 PM
I think everyone has had their fair say here. Let's leave it at that. If someone wants to open a 'Beta Testing' thread then this can be discussed on topic.
John Channing
07-10-07, 06:12 PM
becomes a mute point
Moot point.
Heeheehee.. sorry T... I couldn't resist.
TDK1044
07-10-07, 06:15 PM
:rotfl:
Uber Gruber
07-11-07, 04:35 AM
Oh dear...etc.:nope:
Saintaw
07-11-07, 06:18 AM
I disagree:down:
Some days ago I was in Vienna and I could notice a detail I remembered well from my first visit already 15 years ago: The newspapers are on shelves near boxes where you put the money. People pick freely their newspaper and put the coin in the box, and NOBODY controls that. Yet it seems to have worked for at least the 15 years I remembered. Why? Education. Principles. Sure, UBI could have been more careful, but it's the IDIOTS with lack of education and principles that go around trying to find leaks who ruin the scene for the majority of educated and responsable ones.
Keyword here being 'Austria'.
Don't expect the rest of the world to react in the same manner, unfortunately.
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