Smoke Stack MOD ?

[CaptainCox]

Is there a mod that has a blacker smoke (visible on the horizon) for the Merchant Ships?.
I know there is a few for SH3, but not sure if it has been incorporated in any mods yet for SH4. I saw this thread over at the SH3 Workshop.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=117748
I guess its only a matter of porting the SH3 Tweakfile and try...or?

[Bando]

I wish there was a mod like that. I have read some of the war reports of the submarines. Mostly their first detection of an enemy was smoke over the horizon. It's a bit strange it is not implemented ingame.
If this is to be done properly, your own diesels generate also smoke albeit a lot less compared to the steam engines and heavy oil engines of merchants, but nonetheless.

Anyway, here I am moaning, don't have a clue about graphic files and am certainly not capable of making such a mod.........

My 2 cents I guess

Bando

[CaptainCox]

Ok had a stab at this.
In the SH3 "#funnel_smoke" tweak file there is 3 "DropDownName=black_smoke#"
But I can only find 2 in SH4. I also checked the overall "black_smoke" instances compared to SH3. In SH3 there are 16 but in SH4 only 11.

Anyway I used the settings from "Racerboy" over at the SH3 forum and this is what it looks like in SH4
http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/5353/smoke2md9.jpg

Not to bad...BUT!

http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/8502/smoke1mx2.jpg

A bit hefty hey!

The smoke also sort a pulses out, like slowly and then suddenly POFF, like in the pic above.

Needs more tweaking that's for sure.

If someone wants to play with the settings please do.
Here is the Ported Tweakfile
Credits to TIMETRAVELER for all the original work on this Tweakfile
I only ported it.
Also credits to Racerboy for the settings (witch needs to be tweaked for SH4, but never the less)

DOWNLOAD LINK TO FUNNEL SMOKE TWEAK FILE [WIP]
http://files.filefront.com/funnel+smoke+SH4rar/;7995810;;/fileinfo.html (http://files.filefront.com/funnel+smoke+SH4rar/;7995810;;/fileinfo.html)

[tater]

Is there any distinction between ships for smoke? Coal fired ships looked like that last pic (minus the puff) but it varied a lot depanding on the engines (bunker burning, coal, dielsel, etc).

[CaptainCox]

As far as i have seen it don't look like that in the particle dat. only Smoke Funnel. The puffing might be controlled else where. Trying some "lighter" settings here...lets see what it does...

[Anvart]

Is there a mod that has a blacker smoke (visible on the horizon) for the Merchant Ships?.
I know there is a few for SH3, but not sure if it has been incorporated in any mods yet for SH4. I saw this thread over at the SH3 Workshop.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=117748
I guess its only a matter of porting the SH3 Tweakfile and try...or?
It is necessary to make the same, that has been made in my mod for SH3:
Ship_Smoke.rar

[CaptainCox]

Ahhhhh. Cheers Anvart!, will have a look. Do you mind or?

EDIT: I see you have changed a lot of stuff there ;)

Would it be possible for you to have a look at this one for SH4, as you know what you did in SH3 allready?

[Jace11]

Observer posted a particles.dat several months ago..

It had been through a hefty workover, with many hex changes, and whole segments of smoke data had been moved and re-done. But the smoke was darker and still kept some transparancy.

It intrigued more and more and not just cause of the darker smoke he achieved... maybe I am just nosy but...

The header in the file was different from SH3 and SH4 particles.dat's so I suspected that he had a copy of Kashmir...
(the signature at the header of the file was something like BOB/HOME instead of one of the normal dev names...)

In the thread I asked him how and why the files were so different in size etc, in response he said, and I quote...

"I'm not trying to be coy, but I'm afraid that's not possible. This effect was not achieved through normal hex editing, which also accounts for the differences in file size. I am unable and unwilling to say anything else beyond that."

When I aired my suspicions, he made no more comments...

If he did have it for whatever reason - beta-testing etc, I guess he would be under an NDA etc and unable / unwilling to comment..

The speedyshare file that he posted is now unavailable, but maybe I have it somewhere, or someone else does...

Found the thread, contains a post or two from you Coxy..

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=113053&highlight=Smoke

I could be wrong of course, but it is slightly annoying if certain members may use Kashmir to make mods, while the rest of have to do it the LONG HARD WAY...

[CaptainCox]

Ahhhh, yea i remember this tread. I was to involved in the stuff from Privater (exhaust mod) to really look at the rest :p. But will have a closer look at it now.

[CaptainCox]

Was playing around with this a bit more.
Managed to get a pretty "high" smoke stack. But the problem is that its not vissible over long distances due to LOD maybe...

http://img480.imageshack.us/img480/3967/smoke3bm6.jpg

As you can see the farthest ships smoke is not vissible.

[Hitman]

Yes the stock smoke also isn't visible fromfar away easily when raising the horizon distance (And LOD did not help for me). :hmm: Sadly I have not yet found a way to get the "hull down" effect correctly when placing the horizon far away, so even if the smoke can be seen at that distance -which would be already a great thing- I'm afraid further work will be needed to have it be the only thing visible above the horizon.:damn:

[Anvart]

Ahhhhh. Cheers Anvart!, will have a look. Do you mind or?

EDIT: I see you have changed a lot of stuff there ;)

Would it be possible for you to have a look at this one for SH4, as you know what you did in SH3 allready?
Readme (partially):
"In stock game we have one type of a smoke for all ships (big and small).
This mod adds other two types of a smoke for small and big smoke funnels of the ships.
This mod is intended (basically) for advanced moders.
The main content:
1) particles.dat - the basic file a mod
...
3) files for work with SH3 Mini Tweaker:
#funnel_smokeBig.txt
#funnel_smokeSm.txt.
...
5) help pictures
Application.
For application of this or that type of a smoke it is necessary to write down corresponding
the identifier in *.sim file of the ship (look pictures):
6DD778C0004D3491 - a usual smoke (stock)
6DD97AC2004D3691 - a small smoke
6DD879C1004D3591 - the big smoke.
If someone will want to change a kind new smoke objects it is possible to use the program
SH3 Mini Tweaker with files #funnel_smokeBig.txt and #funnel_smokeSm.txt.
..."

[CaptainCox]

Cool stuff Anvart, cheers!
As its getting late here I will have to call it a day, but seems like a good project for the coming week ;)

Would you have an idea on how to make the smoke to be visible further away (seeing the smoke stack over the horizon)

Thanks!

EDIT! had another look at your file. BRILLIANT! man:up: :sunny:

EDITII :o :o those tweak files are HUGE! MAN! :doh: what a job that must have been doing that :up:

[Anvart]

Cool stuff Anvart, cheers!
As its getting late here I will have to call it a day, but seems like a good project for the coming week ;)

Would you have an idea on how to make the smoke to be visible further away (seeing the smoke stack over the horizon)

Thanks!

EDIT! had another look at your file. BRILLIANT! man:up: :sunny:

EDITII :o :o those tweak files are HUGE! MAN! :doh: what a job that must have been doing that :up:
1) Unfortunately new SH4 graphic features do this job not easy ...
2) This files are for full adjustment ...

[kv29]

Cox & Anvart, have you achieved a more real funnel smoke? If so, would you be kind enough to share some numbers to tweak?

[CaptainCox]

I might come back to this on the week end. I have a mod I use for personal use, But still the problem for "me" is that you cant see the smoke over the horizon, This is due to the LOD in the game I think.

[CaptainCox]

This is what I have at the mo (again its just what I stopped at when doing this some week ago)
http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/3718/smoke3nd0.jpg

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/5892/smoke5ua3.jpg

[Lagger123987]

Captain Cox, where can I find the tweak file for the smokestack smoke?

[THE_MASK]

Look for Anvarts reply in this thread and click on his mod page for smoke tweak files . Dont know if they are for 1.3 though .

[CaptainCox]

I ported a tweak file for SH4 earlier in this thread, that's the one I used for now.
http://files.filefront.com/funnel+smoke+SH4rar/;7995810;;/fileinfo.html

[Canonicus]

This is what I have at the mo (again its just what I stopped at when doing this some week ago)
http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/3718/smoke3nd0.jpg

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/5892/smoke5ua3.jpg


Thanks fo the info Captain...very helpful....

BTW...these adjustments really make the smoke look and act much more realistic.

I fooled around with the different values a liitle bit...you know...by trial and error, just to see if I could effect an improvement, especially the tendency for the smoke to POOF and PUFF out and intervals....not too realistic, I think.

My efforts to make it stop or at least diminish it were in vain, unfortunately.
I tried too many combinations to keep track of. The old recycle bin was absolutely filled to the brim with Copy of Particles files!

Honestly...I kept going back to your "Stock" values you have listed...seems to be a pretty good compromise. Not to say that more could be done, of course, but...certainly, more than a 100% improvement.

NOW...if we could only figure out how to make it BETTER!

And then...add exhaust smoke to the subs...wouldn't that be nice! :yep:

Cheers!

[Hitman]

A little update about the horizon/visibility matter that could be of some use here....

I have been experimenting with several Zmax values for horizon, and while higher ones seem somehow to break the normal graphics behaviour of "masts over the horizon", a test I did run using the same values of SH3 16k visibility mod (Zmax=2000) showed good results both for hull-down appearence and smoke. Note that I didn't use any smoke mod, and the original smoke is very faint, yet I was able to see it a higher distances than normally:hmm:

I am starting to think that there is a sort of skydome of large size that allows rendering the main part of ships (Hull, masts) very far, but there is somewhere a horizon limit in the horizontal base (Where the sea is rendered) where the game stops rendering the details if the ship is further than its limit. The key seems to be to find the upper limit of that. Should be somewhere between 16000 metres and 20000 metres, as that last value was mentioned by the Devs during an interview, yet finally seems not to have made it into the game.

Oh, and one more thing: My crew didn't show in preliminary testings vampire vision bug at night:D

[CaptainCox]

@Hitman, thats some really cool stuff you found out there. Will try it out when home from work.:up:

[WilhelmTell]

Help needed!
I was playing around with the particles.dat for a while and just wanted to revert to the original file. But i stupidly forgot to back it up.:oops:
Can someone please upload the original 1.3 particles.dat ? Or send it via email ?
I would be very grateful.

Regards,
Tell

[CaptainCox]

Here ya go ;)
http://www.mediafire.com/?18mnyeg9ecg

[WilhelmTell]

Thanks alot for the quick respond, Captain Cox !
I'll better rename the copyofparticles.dat now instead of deleting it. :D

Tell

[chopped50ford]

is there a file we can use JSME to input the changes for better smoke? Is this compatable to Tmaru 1.3a?

[Jace11]

A little update about the horizon/visibility matter that could be of some use here....

I have been experimenting with several Zmax values for horizon, and while higher ones seem somehow to break the normal graphics behaviour of "masts over the horizon", a test I did run using the same values of SH3 16k visibility mod (Zmax=2000) showed good results both for hull-down appearence and smoke. Note that I didn't use any smoke mod, and the original smoke is very faint, yet I was able to see it a higher distances than normally:hmm:

I am starting to think that there is a sort of skydome of large size that allows rendering the main part of ships (Hull, masts) very far, but there is somewhere a horizon limit in the horizontal base (Where the sea is rendered) where the game stops rendering the details if the ship is further than its limit. The key seems to be to find the upper limit of that. Should be somewhere between 16000 metres and 20000 metres, as that last value was mentioned by the Devs during an interview, yet finally seems not to have made it into the game.

Oh, and one more thing: My crew didn't show in preliminary testings vampire vision bug at night:D

Regards range thing...

Pause the game and move your camera away from ship...

There are strange stories that tell of the end of the world.. at some point when time has stopped and your eyes travel at great speed one will reach the end of the world... at the end of the world, the blue sea is gone and ships float on air...


at what exact range this happens I cannot tell thee my lad, but I have seen it with my own two eyes and magical it is...:arrgh!:

[Fearless]

I must be doing something wrong. I tried changing those settings CC shows in the above post but it's not doing anything. :hmm:

Can you advise what the correct procedure is to get this to work? :cool:

Thanks in advance.

[nattydread]

im not sure if it sbeen mentioned, but its important to make sure it sknown that not all ships made dark, blotchy smoke. warships made an active attempt to keep black smoke to a minimum if not almost eliminate it, newer commercial vessels using diesel and such burned relativly clean also. The big belchers where the coal burning steam engined ships.

I would certainly hope devs make an attempt to follow historical data when implenting these smoke mods. Or atleast provide an optional historical smoke mod.


Oh yeah, and please oh please I hope someone figures out how to extend visual range and smoke sightings over the horizon....man, oh man would you make my day!

Especially since Im a 100%er with no external camera, i can care less if teh ships float in space with no water modeled when over teh horizon...I wont see it anyway. Aslong as it looks right from my perspective on the conning tower, so be it!!!

[CaptainCox]

@fearless. Did you delete the copyofparticles.dat after tweaking the particles.dat?. If you don't the game will use that copy instead of the "newly" tweaked file, resulting in "no change"

@nattydread, the tweak I did here was fast and dirty. The best way is what Anvart did for SH3 I think, mentioned earlier in this thread. Have not had time yet to look in to it.

[nattydread]

I assume that Anvart's mod in SHIII hasnt or cant be ported over to SHIV?

[CaptainCox]

I am sure it can, but needs some looking in to. Actually Anvart recommended us/me to look at it for reference

It is necessary to make the same, that has been made in my mod for SH3:
Ship_Smoke.rar
The tweakfile that Anvart did is HUGE!!!!! (respect) hence the time needed to port etc. Its not a 5 min job + all the necessary .cfg tweaks for the ships etc.

[nattydread]

well if part of the work is the smoke modding, I'd be more than willing to accept a scaled-down range increase only mod :)

[CaptainCox]

There are some clues around here...or rather hints/leads as how to attack the "LOD" in SH4. But if you look higher up in this thread Anvart is mentioning that its pretty tricky.


Would you have an idea on how to make the smoke to be visible further away (seeing the smoke stack over the horizon)

Thanks!
1) Unfortunately new SH4 graphic features do this job not easy ...