Would you like to calculate speed by prop turns?

[kv29]

I was reading an online TDC manual and in some chapter it said that you could calculate a ship speed by counting the props rpm. Skippers had a recognition manual named ONI 41-42 in which every ship had the max speed & rpm, so using the sonar we can do the same by simple math.

I was thinking about doing a table like this with a default timeframe of 10 seconds:


http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/1381/tablezd6.jpg

I´ve checked a couple of ships and it works ok.
What do you think?

[ReallyDedPoet]

If you are talking about the color, it is to the right of the font type.


RDP

[kv29]

Edit: fixed!

For those who don´t understand, lets say you spotted a Horai Maru ship, so you go to the sonar and start the clock and count the target prop turns for 10 seconds. If you counted 7 turns, the target speed would be 5 knots according to the table.

[tater]

ONI 41-42 is WARSHIPS only.

The merchant manual, ONI 208-J is pretty hit or mis on RPM @ knots data. It might also be wrong.

I'd tend to take the values, and randomized them +- some %. :)

tater

[kv29]

tater you are right about ONI, but Im taking the data from the ships sim files, so I suppose they are accurate,

[tater]

I just meant that if you did it, you might want to have less accurate info for merchants ;)

Fog of war, etc.

<S>

tater

[kv29]

tater, do you have any of those ONI in your library?
I want to confirm some RPM numbers if you don´t mind.

[tater]

I have ONI 41-42 and 208-J (revised) as well as 208-J supp.

Fire away! (you should use the real ONI values even if they are wrong, lol)

[kv29]

Lets start with the merchants....:p

Conte Verde

Horai Maru

Kiturin Maru

Tyohei Maru

Nippon Maru

Buzyun Maru

Haruna Maru

Nagara Maru

Hakusika Maru

Zinbu Maru

Heito Maru

Kinposan Maru

Akita Maru

Biyo Maru

Taihosan Maru

Kasagisan Maru

[tater]

Conte VerdeNo data in the listing for her.

Horai Maru
No RPM numbers for her, either.

Kiturin Maru
No RPM numbers (sad, there are ships all around these in the book with RPMs given).

Tyohei Maru

No RPM data listed.

Nippon Maru
118 @ 17.5
125 @ 20.5 (wow, it is FUBAR on speed in the game)

Buzyun Maru
No RPM data listed.

Haruna Maru
No RPM data listed.

Nagara Maru
98 @ 15 knots
116 @ 18.6 knots (! fast)

Hakusika Maru
No RPM data listed.

Zinbu Maru
No RPM data listed.

Heito Maru
No RPM data.

Kinposan Maru
82 @ 12.5 knots

Akita Maru
86 @ 13.5 knots

Biyo Maru
No RPM data listed.

Taihosan Maru
No RPM data listed.

Kasagisan Maru
85 @ 10 knots

[kv29]

uuppss, a lot of data was missing in rl. I suppose that using my table would be something like cheating. I think I´ll drop it.

[tater]

I dunno, put it in for the few ships that had data, and people can always guess. Guessing is good. The other plus is that it'll be less work :D

BTW, very ship you listed is pictured in the ONI 208-J guide, they just don't have RPMs @ speed listed for many.

tater

[Rockin Robbins]

Don't think it's just you eggheads that swap arcane information that are interested in calculating speed from RPM. Realism-wise, it would be good to get players to their sonar stations doing useful work, no? I agree that only information actually available in WWII to our skippers should be available, even if it was wrong. It is now a double shame that floating objects were not implemented in SH4 as they were in SH3. But rather than complaining about what might have been I'm having a great time with what is. Thanks for both of you and the time you've put into making Wolves the best it can be!

[kv29]

well, more than a half of the merchants have missing info, I wonder if the warship ONI suffers from the same thing. tater?

[tater]

I'll get back to you in a bit on warships.

[tater]

Note that warships have a table from 25 rpm to 400 rpm at 25 rpm intervals, with the values in the table where known. Perhaps the idea was to pencil them in if your sonar guy counted turns and you had a good speed...

Kongo 26 knots @ 300 rpm

Fuso 23 knots @ 292 (values outside the 25 rpm table are added between the 25 rpm figures)

Yamishiro (same as Fuso)

Ise/Hyuga 23 knots @ 318

Nagato 26 @ 330

Shokaku no rpm data

No CVs have data at all on rpms.

(if I don;t put an entry, there is no RPM data, how about that, easier to type).

Aoba 33 @ 370

Mogami 33 @ 290

Tenryu 31 @ 420

Kuma 33 @ 439

Natori 33 @ 384

Yubari 33 @ 410

Sendai 33 @ 370

Minekaze 34 @ 417

Mutsuki 34 @ 405-413

Hatsuharu 34 @ 390

[tater]

So it looks like as of '42 they had nothing more than 1 rpm entry per ship if any at all.

tater

[kv29]

Well, stock values SUCKS, and the strange thing is that a lot of ships are missing both in the game and in the ONI

ONI (missing) = Furutaka, Takao, Agano, Naka, (Akitsu/Taiyo/Chitose are cvs?), Asashio, Fubuki, Shiratsuyu

So the question is... what are the correct values? game or ONI? should we correct them in the game?

[kv29]

btw, having in mind that the whole convoy has the same speed, if a skipper spotted a known speed/rpm ship (ONI) and other one without sp/rpm, did he update the new data in his ONI? as you know the speed of the first, lets say 6/100, all you have to do is count the turns from the second and write it down (6/x)

[tater]

I listed ALL that had values in ONI 41-42 down to subchaser size. That's it, the entire RPM list in the whole book.

I'd use the ONI values, right or wrong. If that makes players miss, that's hard cheese. Welcome to the world of a fleet boat skipper, it'd make those 100k patrols harder to come by, lol.

[kv29]

I understand tater, but what values are good and what are wrong? please look my other question above, seems you missed it .

[tater]

Where are the game values?

tater

[kv29]

kongo & fuso 24.7 / 549
Ise 25.6 / 549
mogami 35 / 250
minekaze & mutsuki 37 / 500
kuma 33 / 563

[tater]

I guess I'd assume that the in-game values are correct for the game. LOL. I'd tend to assume ONI is wrong, lol. Obviously they didn't have a huge amount of data.

[WernerSobe]

how do you expect sounds recorded from some vacuum cleaner match real WWII data?

what we can do is testing different ships running at different speeds, count the turns and make a new table. That might even work but i think there are only 3 steps of that sound. slow medium and fast. well that needs testing.

[WernerSobe]

ok ive got interestning foundings.

ive listened to same ship passing by in a single mission and have counted the turns for one minute. The results for small old split freighter.

1kt = 20 turns
2kt = 24 turns
3kt = 31 turns
4kt = 37 turns
5kt = 43 turns
6kt = 47 turns
7kt = 47 turns
8kt = 47 turns
9kt = 47 turns
10kt = 47 turns
11kt = 47 turns
12kt = 47 turns

similar picture with medium old split freighter. There seem to be a gradual turn increase up to 6 knots. Above that the sound doesnt differ. Ive also set up two ships of same kind for a race. One made 6 knots the other 12. There was no difference in their sounds.

[tater]

That's interesting. Odd that their RPMs are half what ONI has listed for any merchants that are in game...