Do AI ships have limited ammo?

[panzermeyer]

Do ships in SH3 and/or the GWX mod have limited ammunition? For example do destroyers have a limited number of depth charges? If you are lucky and avoid the depth charges does the destroyer eventually run out of depth charges?

Reason I ask is it seems to me they do, or maybe a bug. I happened to come across some merchants and trawlers, I managed to sink one using my deck gun and the other using a surface torpedo attack. Well out of no where, here comes a destroyer and an armed tug boat (which had depth charges, wtf?) Anyway, I dive, no damage suffered.

The destroyer closes fast, by that time I am at a depth of 80m, runnng silent, constanly turning and also changing depth as well. Well the tug boat and destroyer make several runs with depth charges, most not being even remotly close, some being very close, yet suffering no damage.

After several runs the tug boat stops, and start heading away, while the destroyer continues, but not for too much longer. Eventually he stops dropping charges as well, however, he continued to circle my last known possition, I guess waiting on me to surface.

I went to periscope depth, waited for a good angle and fired 2 torpedos, both hiting him and sinking him. Anyway, it left me wondering , do the AI ships have limited ammunition as well? It seemed to me that way from this experience. Why else would both of the ships all of a sudden stop depth charging me. Then one move off while the ther remained to circle my possition.

If limited ammo is modelled, is it in SH3 or GWX? Either way, it's great.

[bigboywooly]

Yes they do have limited ammo :yep:

[rik007]

What is the number of depthcharges per DD? I want to know it as I want to count the number of charges used to determin if a DD is running out of amo.

[TigerShark808]

Do ships in SH3 and/or the GWX mod have limited ammunition? For example do destroyers have a limited number of depth charges? If you are lucky and avoid the depth charges does the destroyer eventually run out of depth charges?

Reason I ask is it seems to me they do, or maybe a bug. I happened to come across some merchants and trawlers, I managed to sink one using my deck gun and the other using a surface torpedo attack. Well out of no where, here comes a destroyer and an armed tug boat (which had depth charges, wtf?) Anyway, I dive, no damage suffered.

The destroyer closes fast, by that time I am at a depth of 80m, runnng silent, constanly turning and also changing depth as well. Well the tug boat and destroyer make several runs with depth charges, most not being even remotly close, some being very close, yet suffering no damage.

After several runs the tug boat stops, and start heading away, while the destroyer continues, but not for too much longer. Eventually he stops dropping charges as well, however, he continued to circle my last known possition, I guess waiting on me to surface.

I went to periscope depth, waited for a good angle and fired 2 torpedos, both hiting him and sinking him. Anyway, it left me wondering , do the AI ships have limited ammunition as well? It seemed to me that way from this experience. Why else would both of the ships all of a sudden stop depth charging me. Then one move off while the ther remained to circle my possition.

If limited ammo is modelled, is it in SH3 or GWX? Either way, it's great.

Well you have to figuer that a SURFACE SHIP with more square footage of space ( then a U-boat) will have more then enough room to store depth charges and or rounds of ammo then a very small u-boat. If your thinking of trying to wait out a DD untill it runs out of ammo I would say your in big trouble. You might wait her out intill she gets bored and leaves but not likely she will run out of ammo anytime soon. IMO

[Corsair]

IIRC, it's 15 cans per rack or something around that number... Often surface ships wih only 2 racks like Flowers run out of ammo.

[Indiana_Jones]

Well you have to figuer that a SURFACE SHIP with more square footage of space ( then a U-boat) will have more then enough room to store depth charges and or rounds of ammo then a very small u-boat. If your thinking of trying to wait out a DD untill it runs out of ammo I would say your in big trouble. You might wait her out intill she gets bored and leaves but not likely she will run out of ammo anytime soon. IMO

But what if the DD had only a few left on her trip?

If that's not in GWX, they should stick it in 1.04

Set a random ammout of Depth charges to the ship

-Indy

[TigerShark808]

IIRC, it's 15 cans per rack or something around that number... Often surface ships wih only 2 racks like Flowers run out of ammo.

But you are only thinking about whats loaded in her "RACKS" right? ..not what might be on board the ship total ? Am I correct? Does anyone have a clue as to how many TOTAL OVER-ALL depth charges were stored on a scout ship /DD ?

[canimodo]

a loooooog time ago (maybe more than a year) someone posted how many depth charges a specific type of escort carries....

Cant remember the ship but i think it was the most common escort type in vanilla 1.4.

I remember he said that it is limited BUT NOT REALISTIC - and i think it´s 100 charges....

Well sorry for the innacuracy but SOMEONE knows the answer.... :ping:

[KeptinCranky]

lots, really, a ****load, that's why DDs make such nice fireworks when you slam an eel into them. I think its something like 150 in total

[Biggles]

Basically, if you're still around to see when the DD's out of barrels, then you're either in big trouble, or not all too good on sneaking.....

I've had it happening to me once. I couldn't get rid of him....he went out of his nice little toys, but he still chased me keeping me on my toes....bloody annoying....

[Brag]

I think, something like 200 DC per Destroyer. 150 per corvette is a decent ball park figure. I tried to exhaust escorts on a patrol in 0.1 GWX a corvette ran out after dumping 150 DCs. :rock:

[bookworm_020]

You also have to remember that escorts were resuplied with Depth charges when part of a convoy. Tankers carried them as dack cargo. Escort group that sailed independent of convoy would join convoys to restock.

[panzermeyer]

Ok what is quite a bit, I figured they have a lot but wasn't sure.
I don't think I am too good at sneaking though. I tried running silent with engines off, but I keep slowly sinking with no engines on. (GWX).

Somehow though even at 1knt enough to keep me afloat, they seem to find me and depth charge me. I read the GWX manaul on evasion, and everytime they do a dpeth charge run I kick it to flank, change direction and depth and before the last charge goes off, I go all stop and silent. So the last explosion should mask me...no?

But they seem to find me each time.

I also tried all at the slowest speed as deep as I could and they seem to be able to find me.

[Brag]

Ok what is quite a bit, I figured they have a lot but wasn't sure.
I don't think I am too good at sneaking though. I tried running silent with engines off, but I keep slowly sinking with no engines on. (GWX).

Somehow though even at 1knt enough to keep me afloat, they seem to find me and depth charge me. I read the GWX manaul on evasion, and everytime they do a dpeth charge run I kick it to flank, change direction and depth and before the last charge goes off, I go all stop and silent. So the last explosion should mask me...no?

But they seem to find me each time.

I also tried all at the slowest speed as deep as I could and they seem to be able to find me.

Try the wiggle waggle described on my webbie.
Also make sure you have silent running on (Z key) and the little screen showing you're silent showing. Check if your conning tower is broaching. Your periscope should be no more than a fist sticking out of the water (check the Papenberg gauge when you are on the periscope screen.

[rik007]

Basically, if you're still around to see when the DD's out of barrels, then you're either in big trouble, or not all too good on sneaking.....

I've had it happening to me once. I couldn't get rid of him....he went out of his nice little toys, but he still chased me keeping me on my toes....bloody annoying....

Well he could wait until another DD arrive with plenty of barrels. AI works that way. :yep:

[joegrundman]

Oh yes! I was trying to evade 2 DD convoy escorts and fogot to check the silent running mode. Couldn't figure out why it was so hard to throw them :damn: .

Anyway I was lurking about 200m down (it was early war, so the DCs couldnt reach me). After about 3 hours of constant bombardment, they both ran out. It was easily over a hundred each. They then circled me for a while after that before i finally noticed my crass error. Then they went to rejoin the convoy which by now was about 60km away.

I figured their heading would tell me which way the convoy was, so i plotted an intercept for the convoy and about 3 hours later ran into them again.

So i dived, knowing full well i was safe from them, had a peek with my periscope and saw one of them was on fire. A couple of minutes later the other one was on fire too.

I realised there was a gun battle going on, and soon enough i noticed another type VII was on the surface dukin it out with the DDs. The VII won the battle completely. I was just about to surface and join in when i realised the two destroyers were sinking. Awesome. What a mod is GWX:arrgh!:

[MENTAT]

Someone posted late war DD's have about 300 DCs.

I dont remember when.

[Tobus]

Only speaking from own experience:

I was in the med, around 8 PM under a clear evening sky, encountering a taskforce with 2 BB, 4 light cruiser and 2 DD of different makes. I was close to shore, depth under keel was about 25 meters. I put 3 fish in one BB, 1 in the other, then quickly turned to use my stern fish on the second BB. I had all but the last fish on slow speed, so I wouldn't be detected until the first hits and I would have already turned 180 to fire my last fish.

Anyway, 2 hit BB#1 and 2 hit BB#2. BB#1 settled and sunk after about 30 minutes. BB#2 went past, heavily listing but not sinking. The DD's came in my direction, and although silent running found me in this shallows. I went to the maximum depth possible, full speed towards the deep, about 20 km away. Both DD's kept on DC'ing me, but through turning and snaking I kept out of harms way, only receiving minor damages. After a while, 1 DD kept on pinging me, circling me, while the other kept on DC'ing me. Again after a while, they both kept charging me, the circling one again joining the charges, but nothing was thrown. When I got to the deeps, I went to 100 meters and to silent running, changing my course gradually. Finally they lost me, my batteries being on 20%. The time was now 10 AM!

So from what I have experienced, i would suggest that different kinds of DD's have different amounts of DC's. But they DO seem to work together when one is out of DC's, keeping asdic-contact while the other goes for blood. Very realistic, very nervewracking, utterly great!!

[SmokinTep]

I usually try not to hang around to find out how many DC's they have.

[TwistedFemur]

know whats annoying ...when an ash can lands on the bridge and doesnt explode.(event camera saw it go right in where the watch crew stands):rock: Then about 20 minutes later whilst trying to avoid detection pass through 150 meteres and BOOM :nope:

[maillemaker]

That's cool! I didn't know they were modeled so accurately. I wonder if you surfaced if it would have been there on the deck.

[panzermeyer]

Ok what is quite a bit, I figured they have a lot but wasn't sure.
I don't think I am too good at sneaking though. I tried running silent with engines off, but I keep slowly sinking with no engines on. (GWX).

Somehow though even at 1knt enough to keep me afloat, they seem to find me and depth charge me. I read the GWX manaul on evasion, and everytime they do a dpeth charge run I kick it to flank, change direction and depth and before the last charge goes off, I go all stop and silent. So the last explosion should mask me...no?

But they seem to find me each time.

I also tried all at the slowest speed as deep as I could and they seem to be able to find me.
Try the wiggle waggle described on my webbie.
Also make sure you have silent running on (Z key) and the little screen showing you're silent showing. Check if your conning tower is broaching. Your periscope should be no more than a fist sticking out of the water (check the Papenberg gauge when you are on the periscope screen.

I read your article on surving being DCed and evading the DD's. To point that is what I've being doing, but not all of it. The first thing I do, I automaticly go as deep as I can, as fast as I can. It makes sense to gradually go deeper. If the depth to the bottom is a 100m, don't go 100m right away. Basically, go 60m, then 70m, 80m and so on, while chaning direction.

Go to flank speed rigth as they start their attack run, all the wihle changing direction and depth. In the midst of the depth charges going off, cut to 1knt. And make sure to have silent running on. I never forget that though, always make sure it is on when DD's start approaching my possition.

Does the sub produce more noise when turning at chaning depth at 1knt on silent running? Even though it is painfully slow, is it better just to have the rudder and amid ship and remain at depth after the attack run to help avoid detection? Or should I constantly change direction, even at 1knt on silent running?

I also read on your site about sending crew to the front compartments to help dive faster, is this actually modelled in the game? I wasn't aware it was. If it is, freakin' awesome!

[Tobus]

I also read on your site about sending crew to the front compartments to help dive faster, is this actually modelled in the game? I wasn't aware it was. If it is, freakin' awesome!

I thought only when pressing 'C', crash diving. You can do that when already at depth also I think, going deeper all the time in regular steps of 25 meters (been very long since I tested that btw, maybe it's changed?).

[Tobus]

know whats annoying ...when an ash can lands on the bridge and doesnt explode.(event camera saw it go right in where the watch crew stands):rock: Then about 20 minutes later whilst trying to avoid detection pass through 150 meteres and BOOM :nope:

W:huh: W, never heard that one before! How would one cope with that? By surfacing?

[Brag]

know whats annoying ...when an ash can lands on the bridge and doesnt explode.(event camera saw it go right in where the watch crew stands):rock: Then about 20 minutes later whilst trying to avoid detection pass through 150 meteres and BOOM :nope:

W:huh: W, never heard that one before! How would one cope with that? By surfacing?

Nasty. You certainly don't want to dive to the depth the ash can is set to detonate. How would one get rid of it? Maybe by ordering a shallower depth and hoping the slope of the deck would cause the DC to roll off. Maybr flank spped would create a current.

For us who don't use event camera, it doesn't matter. We would never know what hit us. At least the conning tower would be destroyed

[Brag]

Ok what is quite a bit, I figured they have a lot but wasn't sure.
I don't think I am too good at sneaking though. I tried running silent with engines off, but I keep slowly sinking with no engines on. (GWX).

Somehow though even at 1knt enough to keep me afloat, they seem to find me and depth charge me. I read the GWX manaul on evasion, and everytime they do a dpeth charge run I kick it to flank, change direction and depth and before the last charge goes off, I go all stop and silent. So the last explosion should mask me...no?

But they seem to find me each time.

I also tried all at the slowest speed as deep as I could and they seem to be able to find me.
Try the wiggle waggle described on my webbie.
Also make sure you have silent running on (Z key) and the little screen showing you're silent showing. Check if your conning tower is broaching. Your periscope should be no more than a fist sticking out of the water (check the Papenberg gauge when you are on the periscope screen.

I read your article on surving being DCed and evading the DD's. To point that is what I've being doing, but not all of it. The first thing I do, I automaticly go as deep as I can, as fast as I can. It makes sense to gradually go deeper. If the depth to the bottom is a 100m, don't go 100m right away. Basically, go 60m, then 70m, 80m and so on, while chaning direction.

Go to flank speed rigth as they start their attack run, all the wihle changing direction and depth. In the midst of the depth charges going off, cut to 1knt. And make sure to have silent running on. I never forget that though, always make sure it is on when DD's start approaching my possition.

Does the sub produce more noise when turning at chaning depth at 1knt on silent running? Even though it is painfully slow, is it better just to have the rudder and amid ship and remain at depth after the attack run to help avoid detection? Or should I constantly change direction, even at 1knt on silent running?

I also read on your site about sending crew to the front compartments to help dive faster, is this actually modelled in the game? I wasn't aware it was. If it is, freakin' awesome!

I wait until the Escort is right on top of me, before ordering flank. Then the attacker cannot hear me and hopefully his noise will mask mine to his buddy who is sitting quietly listening. If I have the courage, I don't make any noise at all and hope there is enoyugh of a miss in either distance or depth. Then chances are good they will lose me in the confusion.

I limit rudder deflection to 10 degrees, it appears that full rudder deflection creates noise. Also the small change in heading seems to throw the AI off and the Escort will dump far enough to miss.

I'm told by the modders that sending crew forward does not help as balance is not programmed.

After firing torpedoes I stay near the surface for 15-30 seconds at flank to get masking by convoy noise. After this initial dash , I go to about 50-60 meters before reducing speed to on knot and changing course again. About 50% of the time the escorts don't come even close to me.

If I think I'm in for a bad shaking, I go to the damage control screen ready to deploy the damage control crew. This is where a matter of seconds can be crucial.

[Brag]

OH!!!


I read your article on surving being DCed and evading the DD's. To point that is what I've being doing, but not all of it. The first thing I do, I automaticly go as deep as I can, as fast as I can. It makes sense to gradually go deeper. If the depth to the bottom is a 100m, don't go 100m right away. Basically, go 60m, then 70m, 80m and so on, while chaning direction.

Go to flank speed rigth as they start their attack run, all the wihle changing direction and depth. In the midst of the depth charges going off, cut to 1knt. And make sure to have silent running on. I never forget that though, always make sure it is on when DD's start approaching my possition.

If depth to the bottom is 100 meters, you shouldn't be attacking.

You also should be on silent running from the very beginning of the approach. If you wait to go silent 'til destroyers are approaching that's too late!

[panzermeyer]

Thanks for the suggestions. I had an idea on how to evade or to stay silent, but I didn't fully understand the game mechanics and the way to go about it.

Now I feel like I am better prepared in dealing with escorts and DDs in general. I was going abot it a bit wrong trying to evade the DDs. And I was making a huge mistake in trying to attack a merchant with an escort in 40m deep water...yea I know.

So next time when out to see, I think I'll pass on trying to attack ships with escorts or DDs in water less than 200m deep, if I can truly avoid it.

[johan_d]

Looked but dont see a Wiggle Wagle?

Ok what is quite a bit, I figured they have a lot but wasn't sure.
I don't think I am too good at sneaking though. I tried running silent with engines off, but I keep slowly sinking with no engines on. (GWX).

Somehow though even at 1knt enough to keep me afloat, they seem to find me and depth charge me. I read the GWX manaul on evasion, and everytime they do a dpeth charge run I kick it to flank, change direction and depth and before the last charge goes off, I go all stop and silent. So the last explosion should mask me...no?

But they seem to find me each time.

I also tried all at the slowest speed as deep as I could and they seem to be able to find me.
Try the wiggle waggle described on my webbie.
Also make sure you have silent running on (Z key) and the little screen showing you're silent showing. Check if your conning tower is broaching. Your periscope should be no more than a fist sticking out of the water (check the Papenberg gauge when you are on the periscope screen.

[Hadrys]

If depth to the bottom is 100 meters, you shouldn't be attacking.

You also should be on silent running from the very beginning of the approach. If you wait to go silent 'til destroyers are approaching that's too late!

Nice thread! Playing mouse and cat at 25m is quite challenging, but there is a fair chance that DD will blow off its rack! It can be done! I've done that few times but try to avoid. Best thing than is to simply kill those DDs one by one.

I'm using the external camera to see more or less how deep it is (not to evade DC), without pinging you have no idea. Colors on the map don't tell much, there should be numbers like on real maps but that would be enormous work to implement in sh3.

Another thing, maybe it can be fixed? I think that when DC hits the bottom it goes off. Maybe they are just set to that depth but it looks like hitting the bottom first.

PS rolling DC over my hull happened to me... not a very nice feeling...

[Corsair]

If you can see how deep it is using the external cam, then it's not deep enough...:D
You can use the colours to have an idea (the standard ruler tool shows a chart next to it) Otherwise you can ping on arrival in the zone when you're still alone...

[ichso]

Otherwise you can ping on arrival in the zone when you're still alone...

This is what I do too. But sometimes it's nice to see your boat floating 2m above the ground ;)

[Biggles]

Remember, silent running isn't enough. It sets down the speed to 3 kts. That's way to loud. Put it on 1kts and they'll have a harder time finding you.