View Full Version : [WIP] Destabilizing the deck gun, a workaround...
I was fiddling with the gun tweak when I thought "ok, we canīt turn off the DG estabilization system because we donīt know where the hell is hidden, but what about if we could tie its hands? what would happen if I set the elevation speed to a minimum? would the estabilization system keep up with the sub roll?"...
Nope, it canīt :p
I set mine from 5 to 0.5 and guess what, the DG barely tries to estabilize at that speed, it goes up and down with the deck. You can still move the crosshair at the same speed as before BUT once the gun reachs the right angle, it will move along with the deck if the sub roll is strong enough, so if you fire at the wrong moment you will miss, you have to keep an eye at the gun barrell for the right moment.
Of course, at 0.5 speed it takes some time for the gun to move up and down, it doesnīt bother me at all.
I would really appreciate some feedbacks!
Make a mod of it to make it easy to test!
tater
panthercules
06-26-07, 08:30 PM
Wow - this sounds cool - will have to try this out. Been really disappointed at the total gun stabilization in SH4. I hope that you could still zoom out, elevate and then zoom back in if you needed to increase the range a lot and didn't want it to take forever. Also, I wonder if this slows down the elevation when you press "shift+up" or only if you are using just the up key? Hope I can remember to test that later :)
Great find :up:
http://rapidshare.com/files/39564497/Destabilized_450_gun.zip.html
The mod is for the 4"50 gun only. Be aware that the reloading time is set to 30 sec. Consider this as a beta!
Fearless
06-26-07, 08:57 PM
will have to test that out :up:
If it works well, it will be interesting to test it in combat conditions with a faster ROF. Then we can time the encounter, and actually see what effect this has not just on accuracy, but average ROF.
On rough seas and with a target farther than 1500 yards, and more accurate & powerfull freighter gunners, that would be a challenge!
I cant hit anything on rough seas over medium/long distances! :rotfl:
The deck gun STILL tries to estabilize a bit, but it takes a good amount of time until you see a firing "window" (when the gun stay as still as possible), but if a big wave catches the sub in that precise moment...:p
This seems totally realistic to me. Even if you have a round loaded, you donīt feel the urge to fire, unless you are at point blank range.
The stock pigboat gun is a 4-50, right?
I got the 30 second reload time, but othewise it seemed the same, I was firing over the bow, and the bow went up and down, and the gun stayed dead level.
tater
panthercules
06-26-07, 11:50 PM
Hmm - I'm thinking maybe my gun tweak files are screwed up or something (though they seem to work for some other parameters). First, I tried setting the elevation speed to .5 as suggested above, and in game my gun elevated just fine but basically refused to traverse :o
So, I tried again, this time putting the elevation speed back to stock value and setting the traverse speed to .5 (in case they were just switched somehow), but I couldn't notice any difference in game - the gun traversed and elevated just as normal and I couldn't detect any loss of stabilization at 7m/s wind speed (highest wind I ever try using the gun in anyway, although since the US boats seem to have a higher freeboard than the German ones I suppose I might try using it at up to maybe 8m/s or so, at least for the stern-mounted guns).
Guess I'll try the D/L'ed file tomorrow and see if I can tell the difference.
Great stuff! I'm doing some testing on this tonight - probably tomorrow too. Seems like this will be a way to get even more realism for the deck guns.
I can hear the grumbling moans allready
:rotfl:
As I said, the gun still has a small amount of stabilization at 0.5, on calm seas is could be enough to keep it under control, but with winds over 7 it canīt. Try firing at long ranges. You want no stabilization at all? put the value to 0 and look, but you wonīt be able to move the gun vertically.
Be aware that the crosshair is NOT anchored to the gun swinging. Use TC above 2 or 4 and look at the gun movement, it will be more evident.
Im still looking to disable the traverse thing that makes the gun to point the same direction when we turn to port or starboard. I believe is in the cameras.dat
The real problem is that the submarine seems to be runnin on rails as someone said, we need more roll & pitch to effectively destabilize the gun a little further.
I will post the mod for all the guns in another thread for further discussion.
I've been testing it. At zero you can still move the gun up and down as normal, but the big problem with any restriction to the number is that the crosshairs don't give a clue as to where the gun is actually pointing, so for engagements at more than a couple of thousand yards the gun is basically going to be useless. If only we could get a sight that would move up and down with the gun's point of aim.
I cannot rise or lower the gun if set to 0
And the gun crew didnīt have a "floating crosshair", isnt it? :p
btw, were the aim system aided by a gyro in RL?
here is the file
http://files.filefront.com/Detabilized+Deck+Guns+10zip/;7897555;;/fileinfo.html
be aware that I included 2 sets: on one the ROF is set to stock value of 4 seconds, the other is set to 30s as suggested by Beery. Yes, here we go again with the ROF issue! just keep it civil please.
btw, should we move to a REL stage?
Ah, so this doesn't destabilize the view at all. I think without feedback on when to shoot it'd be pretty hard to justify. Wonder if this might interact with a camera so that together it might desych things...
panthercules
06-27-07, 08:32 AM
Won't be able to test any more till later tonight - however, do I understand the posts above correctly to say that this change basically makes the zoomed/sight views useless and you'll only be able to notice this effect if you fire over open sights (i.e., max zoomed out) and at wind speeds higher than you probably should be using the gun anyway? If so, it sounded promising but still seems to have a few significant warts.
I do like the general way this is heading though - I'm thinking an approach of upping the damage-dealing capability of the shells (from RFB's basically neutered levels), but reducing the accuracy/ease of hitting where you want, might be a way to achieve the same basic historical goal RFB seems to be aiming for (taking a lot of shots and time to take down a ship with deck guns) that would be more appealing (to me anyway) than the current experience I'm having of pumping 150-200 shells into a small/medium ship and seeing no effect whatsoever. I've seen Beery's posts about ROF and number of shells fired, etc., and I think his overall goal is laudable and basically on target, but I don't recall having seen solid information about how many shots fired actually hit. I think I'd rather (from a gameplay perspective) get to the same point if possible by firing 150 shots, having maybe 25-40% miss but have the others that do hit actually do some significant and visible damage.
tater you must shoot when you see the gun barrell stays steady.
My english sucks sometimes, I will try to explain myself better.
in RL the crew didnīt have a crosshair reference except in the aiming system, one of the guys trained the hor crank and the other the vert crank and opened fire when they thought is was steady enough.
So the 0.5 speed "simulates" the vert guy trying to make the gun steady. If you point the crosshair over a target, yes the crosshair is absolutely steady and is the reference point for the vert guy, but if the sub start rolling and pitching hard, the vert guy cant keep up as fast as before, so the barrell starts swinging and you loose accuracy as should occur in real life.
Using the first zoom view you can STILL see the bore of the gun at the left, you have to wait for it to get as stabilized as possible to shoot.
Ah. In RL (correct me of I'm wrong), the elevation was set based on the range. The sight was set up so it didn't move in elevatio, but was set to point at the horizon when the boat was level. They'd then fire when the sight line was centered on the horizon, and the shell would land at the range set by the elevation.
Something like that.
Did the sight have any magnification?
I see your point. both are different approaches to the same problem. Your point seems more valid than mine.
Either the gun is fixed at a given elevation at all times and the gun crew waits for the sub movement to shoot, or they train the gun compensating the gun elevation in real time according to the sub movement :hmm:
Yeah, I don't think they ever tried to train the gun to compensate for roll. Range was set by gun elevation based on the level deck. they'd fire the gun when the deck was level, and they could tell when it was level by the sight line intersecting the horizon. Note that if the ship was pitching and rolling such a determination would be pretty rough.
I bet most fleet boats had a rear gun (just thought of this) because if you look at it, it's closer to the center of gravity which would result in a more stable platform in pitch.
so the problems is how to destabilize the zoom?
This sucks.
Now that the gun is destabilized I canīt free the sight view (zoom). Iīve tried everything but there is no visible setting in cameras.dat to do that. Iīve used a hex editor to check out for "gaps" in the cameras tweak file, but it seems good as it is (there is 1 unfinished category for each gun, but I canīt see anything with the editor). Destabilizing the deck gun is no good without destabilizing the sights :88)
panthercules
06-27-07, 07:33 PM
If the description of the gun-laying method above is correct, it seems that the gun and the sight should basically be locked together (you shouldn't see the gun bouncing up and down in the sight view), and the sight (and gun) should be moving up and down together as the sub rolls, but what we actually have is the sight and the target/horizon locked together - almost like the vertical equivalent of using the "L" key to lock the TBT/periscope on target. I hope that this can be fixed by mods or the devs, 'cause it would really be good to have sea state affect gun accuracy as it seems like it should.
panthercules
06-27-07, 07:43 PM
Did the sight have any magnification?
That's actually a very good question - if not, then we should probably just be firing over open sights at the unzoomed view, in which case this gun destabilization effect might pretty much get us where we want to be if it makes it hard to keep the gun on target in that view while the sub is rolling. However, it almost seems like you have too little information (less than was available to the gun crew, at least in terms of elevation/range) in the zoomed out view, since there's no range/elevation indicator. I wonder if you could mod the zoomed out view to display the range/elevation bar/scale so you could tell that you were elevated to 1,000 yards rather than 3,000 (for example). (And, depending upon how/where it was displayed, it might also be able to serve as a way of telling when your boat came to deck-level status by comparison of some point on the elevation scale to the horizon.)
I think I found it.
I destabilized the sights too, the cameras.dat tweak is incomplete. Im dead tired so I will keep going tomorrow and will post all my findings.
panthercules
06-27-07, 11:46 PM
Awesome news - hope you write it down before you go to sleep - I hate waking up the next morning having forgotten the great truth I stumbled on the night before :yep:
Uber Gruber
06-28-07, 05:22 AM
Awesome news - hope you write it down before you go to sleep - I hate waking up the next morning having forgotten the great truth I stumbled on the night before
This has happened to me on numerous occassions, once managed to find a solution to all human conflict, food shortages, fresh water supplies and even a Unifying Theory of Everything...alas the next morning I couldn't remember a thing!.....of course, I was very stonned at the time :doh:
Awesome news - hope you write it down before you go to sleep - I hate waking up the next morning having forgotten the great truth I stumbled on the night before
This has happened to me on numerous occassions, once managed to find a solution to all human conflict, food shortages, fresh water supplies and even a Unifying Theory of Everything...alas the next morning I couldn't remember a thing!.....of course, I was very stonned at the time :doh:
I had that happen in a dream - unified field theory - I cracked it. I even had the sense to wake up and write it all down. Sadly, in the morning when I woke up I found I had written down a bunch of meaningless words.
Awesome news - hope you write it down before you go to sleep - I hate waking up the next morning having forgotten the great truth I stumbled on the night before
This has happened to me on numerous occassions, once managed to find a solution to all human conflict, food shortages, fresh water supplies and even a Unifying Theory of Everything...alas the next morning I couldn't remember a thing!.....of course, I was very stonned at the time :doh:
I had that happen in a dream - unified field theory - I cracked it. I even had the sense to wake up and write it all down. Sadly, in the morning when I woke up I found I had written down a bunch of meaningless words.
Reality sucks, I want my dreams back!
Ok, here is the deal.
Nvdrifter excellent cameras.dat tweak file is incomplete. Looking at the "deckgun zoom" category inside the original file with an hex editor I found a missing parameter, "look at horizon" (among a couple more things) which has a value =4.664923E-42. No idea what this represents, must be some kind of formula that allows the zoomed sight to stay put on the horizon compensating the sub roll, so I set it to 0. Back to game, now the zoomed sights (only) follows the sub pitch & rolls up to a certain angle. If the sub roll is too strong, the sight goes up till a couple of degrees above the horizon and stays there until the roll goes down. There is a "ceiling" but not a "floor" value that is related to the range. The past example happens with range set to 500.
Now, if we set it to 2000, the sight goes up a couple more degrees above the horizon and it seems that the ceiling effect is gone, so there must be some kind of parameters that set the min and max zoomed altitude.
All the above happened with gun stabilization active. So I proceeded and set the gun elevation speed from 5 to 0.1. Its necessary to set a positive number otherwise the gun WONT move a single bit. Now that the gun is anchored to the sub, the zoomed sight is also anchored to the gun. Perrrrrfect. well, almost. The zoomed sight is still a a few degrees over the horizon, I think this problem might be related to the sight overlay and not the camera.
Now comes the problem. The zoomed sight should go DOWN, not up if we rise the range, isnīt it?
Im finishing a new file with the updated cameras.dat and gun.zon, will upload it asap.
Feedbacks?
No. The sight doesn't move in elevation.
It should point at the horizon, and only be used to set the gun in azimuth.
The range setting is the elevation of the gun tube. THAT is the range. The gun should hit that range when the cross hair is on the horizon.
So the vertical on the sight is left/right aim. The range is entirely controled by the elevation, and the sight should NOT move in elevation except due to pitch and roll of the boat. It's literally bolted on parallel to the deck I believe.
The only difference would be a DP gun (maybe the 5 inch) since it would have been intended for Dual Purpose and would have been used in an AA role. Not worth the trouble, IMO.
So again, if you were shooting at a target bearing 90 degrees, the sight view should be exactly the same as the TBT looking at it, swinging up and down with the boat and only moving by the player in azimuth.
working on it......
Confirmed the overlay issue, the zoomed crosshair is misplaced a bit over the horizon, I will try to mod it to the correct height.
EDIT: before I correct the overlay, I need confirmation from other people that the zoomed crosshair is efectively a couple of degrees over the horizon. Perhaps my resolution setting has something to do, I donīt want to change something that will work only for me.
I also need what values to modify it in the menu.ini
panthercules
06-28-07, 12:34 PM
kv29 - can you repost an up-to-date descriptions of the changes in your current version? I'm using a highly tweaked set of files for my testing so I'd really like to make these changes manually and test them rather than try D/L'ed files that I have to keep re-tweaking for my other changes.
Thanks.
Sure:
For the gun destabilization:
File: *all gun.sim*
Category: Gun barrell moveemnt and recoil
Changed: Elevation speed from 5 to 0.1
Be aware that the tweak file for the 3"50 gun, the traverse speed and the elevation speed values are REVERSED. I fixed that in my tweak file.
For the zoomed cam destabilization:
File: cameras.dat
Category: Deckgunzoom
Changed: Added missing name&value "Look at horizon=4.664923E-42" (hex 5398)
Changed value=0
Things to do:
1- Undock the zoomed sight from the gun
2- Fix the overlay sight so the zoomed crosshair is right on the horizon line, not above it (I have a theory about this, I think the overlay crosshair is already at 0 degrees, but the problem is we only see the horizon at 10000 meters, not the true horizon line?)
Here's a table of horizon distances based on heigt above water courtesy of the ONI:
http://members.spinn.net/~merrick/Stuff/range_table_sm.jpg
Assuming a sub deck is 6-10 feet above the water, that 6-7000 yards to horizon.
well, supposing things sometimes might lead you either to a date with Jenna Jameson or a 80 years old whore in a dark alley.... thanks for the info :up:
back to work....
I have another idea that might work.
Lets suppose that we cannot undock the zoomed sight from the gun, so the sight keeps elevating along with the gun at long ranges. What about doing some marks on the sights (like those in the periscope), lets say every 250 meters, so we could know WHEN the crosshair should be right on the horizon?
That might work. Ticks on the sight equal horizon for a given range setting. Gun set to 2500, fire when the horizon is level with the 2500 tick...
BTW, my knowledge of the gun operations is from memory. Can;t remember if I read it in Silent Running or maybe it was the Batfish book. Know I read it someplace, not sure my imagination would be that vivid on something I have so little personal experience with (my Mauser and SMLE being the closest thing I have to heavy artillery ;-)
tater
tater, the other post was a self joke :p
What ranges do you suggest to put in those ticks?
I don't have the slightest clue on the ticks, lol. Useful spreads that people can interpolate between. <shrug>
My response wasn't a reaction to your comment, just a general statement that I am recalling what I read, and I'm no particular expert in deck guns. I read my posts, and while it is what I recall, and it makes total sense, I'm by no means an authority.
<S>
tater
panthercules
06-28-07, 04:04 PM
Sure:
For the zoomed cam destabilization:
File: cameras.dat
Category: Deckgunzoom
Changed: Added missing name&value "Look at horizon=4.664923E-42" (hex 5398)
Changed value=0
Thanks for doing this - just one thing - I've used tweak files but never created/changed one - I looked at the tweak file in notepad, but it's still pretty much Greek to me as far as trying to figure out from that how one goes about changing the tweak file to add new categories. Can you describe how you changed the cameras.dat tweak file to add this missing category? Or did you make this change manually with a hex editor? In the latter case, since I haven't gotten around to learning how to mess with hex editing, have you uploaded your modified cameras.dat file somewhere?
BTW, my knowledge of the gun operations is from memory. Can;t remember if I read it in Silent Running or maybe it was the Batfish book. Know I read it someplace, not sure my imagination would be that vivid on something I have so little personal experience with (my Mauser and SMLE being the closest thing I have to heavy artillery ;-)
tater
Wish I still had my real SMLE. I now have a Denix reproduction with a working bolt action, but it's not like having a real one. I also have a repro AK-47 which is pretty cool.
My buddy has an AK, I have an H-bar AR-15.
Still prefer the 30 cals though.
My buddy has an AK, I have an H-bar AR-15.
Still prefer the 30 cals though.
My ultimate 'it would be cool to own one' weapon is the MP5. Of course the only way I can get one in my house is by playing Rainbow 6, LOL.
Anyway, sorry to hijack the thread. I'll be quiet now. :oops:
Sure:
For the zoomed cam destabilization:
File: cameras.dat
Category: Deckgunzoom
Changed: Added missing name&value "Look at horizon=4.664923E-42" (hex 5398)
Changed value=0
Thanks for doing this - just one thing - I've used tweak files but never created/changed one - I looked at the tweak file in notepad, but it's still pretty much Greek to me as far as trying to figure out from that how one goes about changing the tweak file to add new categories. Can you describe how you changed the cameras.dat tweak file to add this missing category? Or did you make this change manually with a hex editor? In the latter case, since I haven't gotten around to learning how to mess with hex editing, have you uploaded your modified cameras.dat file somewhere?
Edit the tweak file, browse to the category "deckgunzoom", and put a new line at the end (simply copy and paste one of the lines above) and change the name to "look at horizon" (at the end of the line) and the new hex value as stated, and save it.
Now load it with minitweaker and the new line should be there.
My buddy has an AK, I have an H-bar AR-15.
Still prefer the 30 cals though.
My ultimate 'it would be cool to own one' weapon is the MP5. Of course the only way I can get one in my house is by playing Rainbow 6, LOL.
Anyway, sorry to hijack the thread. I'll be quiet now. :oops:
Hey, lend me a hand here instead chatting like parrots! :)
Iīve found several pics like this:
http://www.williammaloney.com/Dad/WWII/SubmarineLing/DeckViews/pages/06MainGun.htm
The sights always seems to be parallel to the gun barrel (?)
panthercules
06-28-07, 05:36 PM
Sure:
For the zoomed cam destabilization:
File: cameras.dat
Category: Deckgunzoom
Changed: Added missing name&value "Look at horizon=4.664923E-42" (hex 5398)
Changed value=0
Thanks for doing this - just one thing - I've used tweak files but never created/changed one - I looked at the tweak file in notepad, but it's still pretty much Greek to me as far as trying to figure out from that how one goes about changing the tweak file to add new categories. Can you describe how you changed the cameras.dat tweak file to add this missing category? Or did you make this change manually with a hex editor? In the latter case, since I haven't gotten around to learning how to mess with hex editing, have you uploaded your modified cameras.dat file somewhere?
Edit the tweak file, browse to the category "deckgunzoom", and put a new line at the end (simply copy and paste one of the lines above) and change the name to "look at horizon" (at the end of the line) and the new hex value as stated, and save it.
Now load it with minitweaker and the new line should be there.
Excellent - worked like a charm - thanks for the tutorial. Now to go blow up stuff :yep:
From Silent Running (James Calvert, Vice Adm., USN, Ret.):
To aim a conventional naval gun of that time (1944---tater), there were two wheels, one located on each side, that were turned manually. The trainer turned it right and left, the pointer controlled it up and down. The firing key was in the hands of the pointer, and he pressed it when the roll of the ship caused the crosshairs of the sighting telescope to meet the horizon. The pointer also set the range to the target on a dial near his position; this automatically elevated the gun to the proper angle for that range. Normally the spotting officer would set the intial range and then spot the range up and down, based on the splashes he had seen from the rounds fired.
BTW, he goes on to say that they decided to test the radar with splashes, and sure enough, they could not only set the initial range by radar, they could spot the shots with radar as well.
tater
panthercules, the gun mod is FAR from completed, you wont hit a thing until we finish the zoomed sight problem.
tater, thanks for the input.
panthercules
06-28-07, 06:00 PM
Awesome!! I am so liking this. With my tests with the tweaked files, I wasn't seeing that much effect when I started out at short range (under 1,000 yards), but when I opened the range to anywhere over 1,000 yards, I was getting some very nice up/down motion of the gun and sights in 8m/s winds, to the point where my shots would easily fall well short or way long if I fired at the extremes of the sub's rolls, and while it was still relatively easy (maybe still a bit too easy, but I was at pretty close ranges still) to get hits by timing the rise and fall of the sight crosshairs, it was a lot harder to consistently hit exactly the part of the ship you wanted to, and it also took some extra time trying to aim better to avoid the greater frustration of waiting for RFB's gun to reload after a miss.
May not be finished yet, as I was seeing the crosshairs staying perhaps a bit too high above the horizon in my tests at 1024x768 as well (using the first zoom level most of the time - it gave better results from the roll perspective than the fully zoomed out mode, and I wasn't far enough away to need the full zoomed in view, plus I liked seeing the gun barrel on the side of the mid-zoomed view) but that's something I could certainly get used to if necessary, and this is soooooo much better than stock at this point - well done :rock:
tedhealy
06-28-07, 07:51 PM
A litle bit of deck gun info from Clear the Bridge!
Testing firing party for the 4 inch, 53 caliber deck gun
White, our gunner's mate and gun captain, was in charge, slamming the breech and calling a realistic "Ready One!" Leibold was elevating or depressing against our roll and kciking off the simulated rounds as Tang momentarily steadied, while his trainer was apparently staying on azimuth.
goes on to mention they calibrated the range by test firing and noting the distance to the splashes on the radar.
No target was necessary, just the sharp horizon. At 2,000-yard sight bar increments, the gun crew fired seven careful shots, kicked off with the cross hair exactly on the horizon.
Ok, I coulnīt find any way to undock the zoomed sight from the cannon and dock it to the boat. When you set longer ranges, the crosshair goes up along with the cannon.
As it is now, the only way to make this work would be to put some vertical ticks (as the periscope) to mark different ranges as horizon references. This will NOT be easy, it will require a good amount of work and lots of tests.
These parameters are required:
1- What range should be the gun zeroed at? The minimum range is 500 meters, would be the easiest choice.
2- What would be the max effective firing range? I donīt see much use to set it beyond 2000 meters
3- How many ticks would this require? As tater said, we could put only a few and interpolate between them.
Before going on with this, there is a very important question to answer: having in mind the hard labour involved, is there a REAL interest in this mod? Patch 1.3 is around the corner, and I would love to see this fixed by the devs, but I seriously doubt they will do it.
If the answer is positive, I will need some help.
I tend to think that 3500-4000 or so might be the max effective range.
The min range bugs me since the gun is capable of being depressed according to drawings, and in non-zoomed view it can be fired that way. Not sure where to zero it though. Do you mean for the sight picture that would be created? I might tend to put the zero in that sense towards the middle of the effective range.
It's odd that it only elevates (the sight) when the gun is above a certian elevation.
panthercules
06-29-07, 12:52 AM
I tend to think that 3500-4000 or so might be the max effective range.
The min range bugs me since the gun is capable of being depressed according to drawings, and in non-zoomed view it can be fired that way. Not sure where to zero it though. Do you mean for the sight picture that would be created? I might tend to put the zero in that sense towards the middle of the effective range.
It's odd that it only elevates (the sight) when the gun is above a certian elevation.
From what I think I saw in the tweak file, the minimum range appears to be tweakable so you could probably set it to less than 500 yards if you want (I haven't tried that yet, but I think I saw the 500 setting in there somewhere).
Also, I've kinda lost y'all in the discussion about the sight elevation behavior and trying to "undock the zoomed sight from the cannon and dock it to the boat" - I've only had time to do a couple of quick tests with these latest tweaks so far, but at all but the closest ranges I was getting some very good movement (up and down) of the sight/crosshairs with the sight and the gun moving together (seemingly), so I'm not sure why you would still be working on that aspect (at least not sure why you'd be trying to "lock" the sight to the boat instead of the gun).
It seemed to me about the only thing wrong with this in my last tests was that the crosshairs were set a little too high (i.e., the shots tend to fall a bit (maybe 1/8th inch or so) below the horizontal crosshair). I think all you'd have to do to fix that would be to (if possible) shift the crosshair graphic down on the screen by about 1/8th of an inch - based on my tests, I think that would make it so you could fire as the horizontal crosshair came level with the horizon, which seems to be what some of the earlier posts were saying was what they did IRL.
I have no idea what controls the crosshairs graphic or how hard it might be to shift it downward a little bit, but often that sort of graphic-shifting is pretty simple to do if you know where to do it, so I'm hoping that part wouldn't be too hard. It seems like you've gotten so close here, I'd hate to see it peter out (though frankly, I could live with it the way it is now if there's no way to shift the crosshairs down and would still consider this a major improvement over the stock game's deck gun experience, so again, a hearty "well done" :up: )
^^^
in RL, the sight is not set vertically on the target.
Panther, you set the direction (bearing) you want to shoot, and you set the range (the gun does this in stock SH4).
Since range on a gun is a soley function of the elevation (assuming a cartridge gun, and not adjustable powder charges), you need to know that the deck is level (in both directions unless you are pointing exactly along an axis) because the elevation of the gun tube is the setting on the mount (the range value you see in the sight) plus/minus the roll of the deck.
If you need a 15 degree elevation to hit the target, and you shoot with the deck on a 30 degree roll, you just shot at 45 degrees.
So the sight was LEVEL with the deck. When the sight is level with the horizon line, you know the deck is level, and you shoot since the round will then land at the range you told it to.
tater
panther, thanks for the compliment. I was wrong at the beginning, tater is right on this. This mod is not only to destabilize the gun, but also the gun sight must act as it was intended in real life, otherwise it is useless over long distances. Sometimes, when you fire for effect and see the splash near the target, you might think it was close and fell short only a few meters, but if you jump to the external camera to have a better look on the target, the actual splash could be a good 500 meters away, or even more! And to make things worst, we are not firing nukes, the shells donīt have a blasting radius over the water and wount do a thing to the target unless we hit them preciselly.
Iīve corrected the sight and zeroed it to "around" 1000 meters (believe me, it was a PITA to do) just to make some tests and put a lifeboat exactly at that distance. I know is a small target but I just wanted to know how precise would be my rounds. My sub was fully stopped, but after a couple of seconds it started to roll with the waves. Some rounds I though would score hits fell short as much as 300 meters or so! Some other passed right above and fell 100 / 200 meters away (missed the firing momentum). The majority fell in a radius of 20 meters or so, I think I scored only one :p
Of course, a real target would be much larger and taller than that, and would be making evasives, and perhaps would be returning fire! but if the sub is rolling or pitching bad, forget about trying to score preciselly where you want. Expect to hit the elephant but not the bird on its back, just like in real life.
I donīt think we would be able to hit anything at 4000 with moderate winds and medium speed. I read somewhere about a submarine exchanging fire with a light vessel, the gunners fired almost 60 rounds and hit only 7 of them (until the gun jammed) Now I know why the devs implemented this gyro thing. Either way I still hate it.
Tater, Panther, Beery....I will release a new set for you to test it.
btw, this mod doesnīt seem to get much attention, besides the guys who are participating now. Perhaps almost everybody love their "death ray" guns?
Im a complete noob as a modder, I really was expecting well seasoned modders (besides Beery) to jump in and lend a hand..... strange.
I'm a noob as well, lol. The hex stuff scares me, lol.
Here's an alternative way to do it:
Forget about getting the gun sight to move with the gun. Instead, use the view outside the sight (the non-zoomed gun view). Thanks to the work done by Kv29 we already have the gun moving up and down in this view, so all we need is a dot on the gun barrel that we can see and a range scale that stays still - something like this.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/Beery/RangeScale1.jpg
We set the range scale so its bottom is on the horizon and the mark will move against the range scale and we'll know when to shoot by getting the range to target as usual.
Someone who knows how to add items to the screens can give us the range scale and marking a dot on the gun barrel should be a simple matter of altering a graphics file for each gun.
[Edit]Oops - I made a mistake in the image - to set a range the scale would have to go down - not up - in order to set an elevation for the gun, and you'd fire when the gun was at zero. But anyway the principle is the same.
One thing this has made me realise - the game's gun is unrealistic in another way, in that firing a broadside would be much more inaccurate than firing down the length of the sub because the sub will roll much more than it will pitch. Because the stock game's gun is stabilized this is not a concern. So implementing this gun destabilization will force players to manoeuvre the sub into a good firing orientation, which would be more realistic.
btw, this mod doesnīt seem to get much attention, besides the guys who are participating now. Perhaps almost everybody love their "death ray" guns?
Im a complete noob as a modder, I really was expecting well seasoned modders (besides Beery) to jump in and lend a hand..... strange.
Sometimes these things take time. Often a mod thread will languish for weeks and then someone will spot it and take it a step further. Don't worry - if you get tired of working on it it will eventually be picked up. It's an important issue from a realism standpoint. If it ever gets to a stage where it can be implemented in RFB I'll make sure that you get credit for it, even if the thread takes months to gain the attention it deserves.
About your pic, is not a bad idea, but arent we moving away from realism?
I donīt think they had something like this in RL. All they had was their scope to rely on. Of course at point blank range or near it was not needed at all. In fact I was thinking about completely remove the external crosshair, use the sights or you will be firing at fishes. Its just an idea
btw, was the deckgun mount completely aligned with the horizon? the wave factor is bothering me bad at this point trying to refine the zoom ticks, how can I disable the pitch and roll effect?
About your pic, is not a bad idea, but arent we moving away from realism?
I donīt think they had something like this in RL. All they had was their scope to rely on. Of course at point blank range or near it was not needed at all. In fact I was thinking about completely remove the external crosshair, use the sights or you will be firing at fishes. Its just an idea
btw, was the deckgun mount completely aligned with the horizon? the wave factor is bothering me bad at this point trying to refine the zoom ticks, how can I disable the pitch and roll effect?
I'm not sure the 3" guns even had a scope. If that's the case they would certainly have had a basic metal range scale such as I've drawn. It wouldn't be measured against a mark on the gun, but the effect would be the same.
As for disabling the pitch and roll effect, you can minimize it by aligning the sub along the line of fire, but the only other way would be to adjust the wave factors - I must admit I can't remember which files control this right now. I guess you might be able to make a mission in the mission builder that has 0 wind and therefore no waves.
The quote from Calvert regarding the deck gun on Jack says "sighting telescope."
Jack had a 3"/50.
They had ;)
http://www.rddesigns.com/subs/7-crew2.jpg
And yes, the weather would play a huge factor on accuracy.
The quote from Calvert regarding the deck gun on Jack says "sighting telescope."
Jack had a 3"/50.
In that case I guess it will have to be done via the telescope view.
When there is a mod I can test, I might get some bright ideas. BTW, keep the stock ROF on test mods, firing more rounds per minute testing is a good thing IMO. Besides, it would be interesting to get a feel for how the movement of the boat impacts ROF...
tater
Really what we need here is for the gun to bounce up and down with the deck, which, as I understand it, we have. Then we need the range ticks in the telescope view to bounce up and down with the deck too. That would be the optimum result. The only problem is I haven't a clue how we might do it.
Im tweaking the position of the zoom overlay, set it to 1000 meters. Currently Im testing it with targets positioned at bow and starboard. Its a real pain in the ass to quit the game, edit the dds file to move it 2 pixels, go back and test....and again.... and again.
But Iīve found another problem: the 2 zoomed sights cameras seems to be different. Im currently using the 2nd zoom because its easier to see the horizon, but If I inmediatly switch to the first one when the horizon line is dead on center, they do not match :damn: .
FOR CHRIST SAKES, WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY AVATAR????
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/images/ranks/hangover.jpg:rotfl: :rotfl:
I think Iīve found a way to stop the camera going up while elevating the gun. WE WONT NEED THE TICKS.
Also found out that both zooms donīt match because Iīve moved the overlay. I will tweak only the crosshair.
We are ALMOST THERE.......
Julius Caesar
06-29-07, 12:10 PM
btw, this mod doesnīt seem to get much attention, besides the guys who are participating now. Perhaps almost everybody love their "death ray" guns?
Im a complete noob as a modder, I really was expecting well seasoned modders (besides Beery) to jump in and lend a hand..... strange.
I tried to mod it but I had no luck. :-?
IMO it is one of the most important things that need to be moded.
btw, this mod doesnīt seem to get much attention, besides the guys who are participating now. Perhaps almost everybody love their "death ray" guns?
Im a complete noob as a modder, I really was expecting well seasoned modders (besides Beery) to jump in and lend a hand..... strange.
As JC mentioned, I think a lot of people are following this thread closely. In my case the technics are way over my head, but it is very interesting to follow what you guys are doing.
I can only speak for myself, but I sincerely hope you get it to work the way Tater described it. I'm sure it will please a lot of "sim" people (being not the arcade type) and will add a great deal to the immersion factor. Maybe in working this thing out you will feel a bit abandoned, but I think you're not alone
Keep it up, you're doing something substantial here
Regards
Bando
Its done.
Still a beta, advanced, but tell me what mod is not! I will release it in 2 flavors: stock reloading 4s and 25s. I tested it up to 4000 meters and achieved good hits. I need a few good men to test it in every imaginable condition so please post your feedbacks so I can tweak it as much as required :up:
panthercules
06-29-07, 07:47 PM
^^^
in RL, the sight is not set vertically on the target.
Panther, you set the direction (bearing) you want to shoot, and you set the range (the gun does this in stock SH4).
Since range on a gun is a soley function of the elevation (assuming a cartridge gun, and not adjustable powder charges), you need to know that the deck is level (in both directions unless you are pointing exactly along an axis) because the elevation of the gun tube is the setting on the mount (the range value you see in the sight) plus/minus the roll of the deck.
If you need a 15 degree elevation to hit the target, and you shoot with the deck on a 30 degree roll, you just shot at 45 degrees.
So the sight was LEVEL with the deck. When the sight is level with the horizon line, you know the deck is level, and you shoot since the round will then land at the range you told it to.
tater
Tater - thanks for the explanation and for helping out with this. I probably wasn't thinking (or writing) as clearly as I might have the other night. Now that I think about it in light of your comments, perhaps a better way of expressing my point would be to say that, at any given elevation setting, both the gun and the sight should be "locked" to the deck (and therefore, to each other as well), since both the gun barrel and the sight should be pitching up and down in the same manner as the deck as the sub rolls (or pitches, for that matter, but that's an extra complication for another discussion). Thus, I was getting a little confused by the talk about de-coupling the gun and the sight in terms of their rolling action. Of course, the gun barrel needs to be able to move (elevate) independently of the sight/crosshairs when you change the elevation setting, but then once any given elevation has been selected, the gun barrel and the sight should pitch/roll together along with the deck.
Although I didn't have time to do much testing, it seemed to be working that way the other night - I could (and needed to) elevate the gun to hit at farther ranges but the crosshairs did not seem to go higher above the horizon when I did so (maybe I just didn't notice since I didn't try any very long ranges?). Yet, once I had set the range/elevation, both the crosshairs and the gun barrel seemed to rise and fall together with the roll of the boat about as you would expect (based upon the fall of the shells short and long).
Thus, I'm still puzzled a bit about what further "de-coupling" might be needed here.
Get it here!:
http://files.filefront.com/Destabilized+Deck+Guns+10zip/;7921325;;/fileinfo.html
EDITED: btw, there seems to be a problem with 3"50 DG cameras, try this mod only with the 4"50 and 5"25 for now.
Duh. Yes, panther, entirely correct. I just meant that the gun could elevate, and the sight picture wouldn't change. Once the gun tube stops moving (elevation) they are indeed both fixed to the deck.
If you're going to make 2 reload speeds, the lowest time to reload should be the "spec" ROF of 8-9 rpm. Call it 8 seconds. That'd be interesting to test the reload time vs ROF...
panthercules
06-29-07, 09:09 PM
First indications are that this latest one has a problem :nope: The rolling/pitching action seemed pretty decent, but there's something not quite "right" about the horizontal crosshair behavior.
I set up a slight tweak on my test mission to have 3 stationary ships, at ranges of 1,000, 2,000 and 3,000 yards, to shoot at. On the 1,000 yard ship, the horizontal crosshair was consistently below the horizon when the sub was level (by about 1/8th inch, about the same as the last one I tested was above the horizon), and the shots consistently hit about 1/8th inch above the crosshair (i.e., if I fired as the crosshairs came level with the waterline of the ship, the shots all hit the top deck or superstructure or sailed just over, even when elevation was set to minimum of 500 yards.
Firing at the 2,000 yard ship, the horizontal crosshair was consistently about 1/8th inch above the horizon when the sub was level, and on the 3,000 yard ship it was even higher - maybe 1/4 inch or so. The horizontal crosshair appeared to be rising and descending as you changed the gun elevation, which I don't believe should be happening. It makes me wonder if I just wasn't using varied (long) enough ranges in my previous tests, since I probably only shot between 500 and 1,500 yards in that one, but I don't remember seeing any vertical movement of the crosshairs in that test - I'm going to have to re-load that other tweaked file set with my new test mission and see if I just missed it last time around.
[EDIT] - LOL - never mind - just checked my test mission set up and, although I told it to put in a Gato figuring it would have at least a 4" gun, it seems to have given me a Gar with only a 3" gun, which the post above indicated still had some problems in the new test download. I'll have to figure out how to get the right gun on my sub and try again :oops:
panthercules
06-29-07, 10:13 PM
Ok - I give up (for now, anyway) :cry:
Apparently, I just suck at this mission editor stuff - you wouldn't think it would be that hard, but I can't find any way to tell the mission editor to give me a 4" gun. I tried the Gato, Gar and Balao - also tried starting the mission with a Gato in mid 1945 and checking "evolve from entry date" or whatever that check box says, hoping it would upgrade me to a late-war, larger gun, but Noooooooo - every thing I tried gave me a 3" gun to shoot :damn: There doesn't seem to be any settings/properties sheet or mechanism to tell the editor what sort of equipment you want your player sub to have, at least that I can find.
I guess I'll have to wait to test this until either the files for the 3" gun get fixed or someone can clue me in to how to get a 4" gun on my test mission sub.
S boats have a 4" as the standard gun.
Palidian
06-29-07, 10:30 PM
I know this will open up a can of worms, but the rate of fire of this gun according to the US Navy is 8-10 rounds a minute. If you get your model to work properly then it will lower the rate of fire on its own. But the 30 second limit makes the gun fire about 40-50 seconds.
I was fiddling with the gun tweak when I thought "ok, we canīt turn off the DG estabilization system because we donīt know where the hell is hidden, but what about if we could tie its hands? what would happen if I set the elevation speed to a minimum? would the estabilization system keep up with the sub roll?"...
Nope, it canīt :p
I set mine from 5 to 0.5 and guess what, the DG barely tries to estabilize at that speed, it goes up and down with the deck. You can still move the crosshair at the same speed as before BUT once the gun reachs the right angle, it will move along with the deck if the sub roll is strong enough, so if you fire at the wrong moment you will miss, you have to keep an eye at the gun barrell for the right moment.
Of course, at 0.5 speed it takes some time for the gun to move up and down, it doesnīt bother me at all.
I would really appreciate some feedbacks!
So you're saying the time between rounds goes up by 10-20 seconds due to the unstable gun platform? The 8-9 rpm figure is around 8 second per round. So with the spec value (determined at a factory range someplace) is 8, and you add 10-20 seconds you get... 18-28 seconds as an average ROF---just like RL logs.
Interesting (I suggested doing a "spec" reload in this mod of 8 seconds a round). If that's true you just got values between the best recorded over time we have seen yet in a log (17 seconds average) to what the RFB mod already is (closer to 30 seconds).
I tried a pigboat. Seems to work pretty well, it it seems OK, I'd dump the external gun view altogether, or at least eliminate the cross hairs.
<S> This is looking very good! :yep:
panthercules
06-30-07, 01:16 AM
S boats have a 4" as the standard gun.
Righto - worked like a charm - swapped out to an S-boat and Voila! 4" gun to play with.
AND MAN IS THIS AWESOME!!!!
It worked incredibly well with the 4" gun files - I tried it at both zoom levels and on all 3 boats (1.000, 2,000 and 3,000 yard ranges). In 8m/s winds, the boat and the gun were rolling pretty dramatically, and I really had to pay attention to when I fired in order to get any hits, but if I managed to fire at the right point, as the horizontal crosshair was on the horizon, I could pretty consistently hit all 3 of the targets when elevation was set to their known/fixed range. Had plenty of misses though, due to bad timing, and I'm sure it will be worse in real game conditions when both sub and target are moving and you don't really know the exact range to target like I did in my test.
As you can see from the screenshots below, there was a pretty incredible amount of swing up and down in high zoom at 3,000 yards in such heavy seas (probably as bad as you would reasonably be able to use the gun at any rate):
From this:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/Cladean/SH4deckgunup.jpg
To this:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/Cladean/SH4deckgundown.jpg
Now - if you can get the 3" gun fixed like this, I think you can declare victory and sit back and bask in the glory :rock:
CaptainCox
06-30-07, 02:42 AM
As this thread is getting pretty big, and the discussion is going back and forth (basically not so easy to get an overview)...is there a chance of a release of this soonish? ;)
Get it here!:
http://files.filefront.com/Destabilized+Deck+Guns+10zip/;7921325;;/fileinfo.html
EDITED: btw, there seems to be a problem with 3"50 DG cameras, try this mod only with the 4"50 and 5"25 for now.
This was just a few posts up if you want to play with it, Captaincox.
CaptainCox
06-30-07, 07:22 AM
Man:oops: sorry I guess i was even to lazy to look :o :oops: :oops: :oops:
Cheers !
CaptainCox
06-30-07, 07:29 AM
Was this the only changes done to the Cam.dat?
Originally Posted by kv29
Sure:
For the zoomed cam destabilization:
File: cameras.dat
Category: Deckgunzoom
Changed: Added missing name&value "Look at horizon=4.664923E-42" (hex 5398)
Changed value=0
I am only asking as I have other stuff in my cam file and have to add it manually.
Cheers!
CaptainCox
06-30-07, 07:43 AM
Ok, no worries will add this and see how it goes. Cheers!
Just tested this again before I have to leave the house. Absolutely %#$@%$ fantastic!
You have done us an amazing service, kv29.
<S>
Regarding how this impacts ROF:
After only a few attempts to use this, I think the reload time for rounds can certainly drop towards the specifications of the gun. I still that that the spec data is not applicable to a submarine platform vs a ship though. If the ROF was listed as 8-9 for the gun (be it on a CV or a SS), then I'd drop it a ways, maybe 6 rpm tops (10 second reload). 12-15 might make more sense, but even in a wind state of 5, S-42 unmoving I was taking 10 seconds for each aimed shot, and missing on top of that. That is with the reload set to 4 seconds (half RL)!
If the boat was moving in any sea at all? Aiming dominates ROF considerations with this mod in place, IMO.
I'm fine with a stationary boat on a calm sea shooting 6+ rpm, frankly.
Now all we need to do is up the gunning capability of warships and armed merchies a hair.
I need to try this vs a DD, but I'm confident the days of gun duels with DDs are over, even with their abysmally low ROF!
CaptainCox
06-30-07, 11:03 AM
Just tested this again before I have to leave the house. Absolutely %#$@%$ fantastic!
You have done us an amazing service, kv29.
I can only concur 100%. Great job on this one kv29 :up:
(looks like that was the only hex value changed in the Cam.dat, at least looks like that my end ;) )
panthercules
06-30-07, 12:44 PM
@kv29 - great job :up:
When you get the 3" ready and are set to release this, please post a complete/updated change log of everything you did to the various files. For testing purposes, I just went ahead and installed your uploaded files, but for actual game play I (like Capt. Cox and many others) have some highly tweaked files to contend with and will need to make these changes manually in order to keep everything else in place.
Please hurry up and finish this - I gotta stop testing this now, before I get too used to the 2-second reload rate I set for my testing runs :D
Test:
S-42 vs Minekaze set to AI=2. Opened fire at 7400 yards speed = flank (12 knots).
74 rounds in 10 minutes (stock SH4 ROF) which is 7.4 rpm, or 8.1 seconds per round. the last 10-15 shots were with the DD dead in the water under 1000 yards, and were more than 50% of the hits, and the shots were starting to come at the stock reload rate of 4 seconds---which is twice RL.
I got maybe 20 hits (lost count on a couple with DD muzzle flashes at same time).
My hit rate was grossly lower than in stock SH4.
So dumping any shots that came closer than 8 seconds apart (since that was the max ROF of the weapon bolted to a test stand) it was maybe 55 rounds in 9 minutes, which is a ROF of 6.1.
The DD didn't even return fire til I was inside 3-4000 yards. "Competant" AI isn't competant.
Will retry at veteran and see how it goes (I am running an improved visual sensor mod that allows them to spot my scope, too, so they should shoot better).
7 minutes 48 rounds AI set to vet. 6.85 rpm for about 20 hits. I opened fire 1000 yards closer, but the lower number of rounds was because the DD turned into me quickly and opened fire. The range was closing fast so prett soon it was a point-blank slugfest.
This demonstrates how abysmal the AI really is at stock settings. Say what you will about RL IJN ASW cpability, but they had EXCELLENT crews overall, and there is no excuse for me to sink a DD, any DD, in such a manner.
As soon as I got within 1000 yards, the deck crew on my sub should have been slaughtered by 25mm AA fire. We need to fix that, too.
None the less, I find my ROF experiments interesting. If it was set to 8 RPM it would be easier to test. What I did was to watch the reload bar, then wait 3-4 seconds after it to fire. If the roll was at the wrong place, I'd have to wait a couple seconds for level.
For those who have yet to test this mod, gunnery is like trying to use the stadimeter on the TBT when there is some chop.
Palidian
07-01-07, 07:13 AM
Got a chance to try this mod, it does not appear to work when zomed all the way out. I hope it can be made to work for the AA gun as well. Otherwise nice job.
Palidian
07-01-07, 07:17 AM
I agree the AI is pretty poor. However, how vulnerable is a sub to gun fire at 500 yards? On the surface the pressure hull is still below the water line, and the only thing exposed is the deck and the conning tower. Assuming they could depress the guns low enough to fire, any hit that would hit the pressure hull would skip across the water, and hit the deck/conning tower. While annoying, not enough to sink the sub.
AA gun fire is a different story however.
7 minutes 48 rounds AI set to vet. 6.85 rpm for about 20 hits. I opened fire 1000 yards closer, but the lower number of rounds was because the DD turned into me quickly and opened fire. The range was closing fast so prett soon it was a point-blank slugfest.
This demonstrates how abysmal the AI really is at stock settings. Say what you will about RL IJN ASW cpability, but they had EXCELLENT crews overall, and there is no excuse for me to sink a DD, any DD, in such a manner.
As soon as I got within 1000 yards, the deck crew on my sub should have been slaughtered by 25mm AA fire. We need to fix that, too.
None the less, I find my ROF experiments interesting. If it was set to 8 RPM it would be easier to test. What I did was to watch the reload bar, then wait 3-4 seconds after it to fire. If the roll was at the wrong place, I'd have to wait a couple seconds for level.
For those who have yet to test this mod, gunnery is like trying to use the stadimeter on the TBT when there is some chop.
Hello KV29.
Several mods affect these files, therefore I'll insert them manually by *timetravellers* minitweaker. From what I've seen, these are the differences between the settings in the gun tweak files compared with Beery's RFB, can you confirm?
Guntype ------3.50 ----------4.50 ----------5.25
Traverse speed 5 / 0.1 --------35 / 25 --------35 / 25 (RFB / Dest.gun)
Elevation speed 25 / 25 -------5 / 0.1 --------10 / 5
Reg.
EDIT
Never mind, just tweaked all the files included, added the line in cameras.dat file, and changed the reload times to 10 sec.
If Tater is right than I should be able to fire 2/3 rounds a minute. Will test.
Bando
Julius Caesar
07-01-07, 10:44 AM
O.k. I have tried it: it is really hard now. I like it!!!
:up: :up: :up:
Note that your gunners are also missing a lot so you will have to man the guns yourself.
Julius Caesar
07-01-07, 10:48 AM
None the less, I find my ROF experiments interesting. If it was set to 8 RPM it would be easier to test. What I did was to watch the reload bar, then wait 3-4 seconds after it to fire. If the roll was at the wrong place, I'd have to wait a couple seconds for level.
And that, I think, demostrated theoretical ROF against real ROF. In real gunfight, you had to aim for some time even if your gun was reloaded... like in this mod. :rock:
Im glad you like it :up:
The problem with the 3" persist. It seems that the min & max gun elevation is somehow related to the cameras. My goal wat to decrease a bit each gun min elevation parameter so we could use the stock deck gun zoomed sights. As soon as I modified the 4" min elevation, the camera automatically anchored to the gun elevation, so when you rise the gun the zoomed cam goes along (the same problem that happens with the 3") AND also screws the firing range (the game calculates ranges from the stock elevation value) :damn: :damn:
Yes, I tried put the same 4" values to the 3", not only the problem is still there but the gun is pointing too low with them.
Btw, something you may or may not know, the deckgun zoomed sight IS edited and it should be used instead the stock overlay until we find a more appropiate fix.
So for now, its 4" or nothing. Im still trying to crack this issue, and would like to disable the external crosshair also. Any clues?
Julius Caesar
07-02-07, 11:41 AM
I guess, as temp. solution, we could REMOVE crosshair when unzoomed; it would be like watching with your eyes to move the gun and then you would look through crosshair and aim. :hmm:
P.S. Why did you create a new "Deck gun 4.dds" file?
Because the stock sight was pointing a little above the horizon, which is not good. I had to edit the crosshair and lower it to the right level, consider it as a temp fix.
I will post a new REL thread soon, we will continue the discussion there.
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