View Full Version : PA planned homicide bombing with pregnant women
Yahoshua
06-13-07, 08:43 PM
Pregnant mother of eight planned suicide attack
Just when you thought the Palestinians have pulled out all the stops, pregnant women are sent to be "martyrs."
"Mother of Eight Planned Suicide Terror Attack in Israel," by Hillel Fendel for Israel National News (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/122741):
Two women from Gaza - a pregnant mother of eight, and her niece, a mother of four - planned a joint two-pronged suicide attack in Tel Aviv and Netanya. They have been arrested. The General Security Service (GSS) has released for publication that the two women were arrested 24 days ago as they left Gaza for the double attack. Precise intelligence information led to the thwarting of the planned mass murders.
The GSS says that the two women "took advantage of Israel's humanitarian policies, receiving a fraudulent medical permit to enter Israel."
The two mothers took along some of their young children to the meetings with their terrorist handlers, at which was discussed precisely how the women would blow themselves up. The 19-year-old son of the older woman, an Islamic Jihad terrorist himself, was present at the traditional picture-taking ceremony, at which the women were photographed holding a Koran and a rifle.
The problem of actually getting into Israel was solved as follows: Islamic Jihad was able to obtain a forged medical permit indicating that Habib required an urgent medical check in Ramallah, to which Zeck was to be her escort. Once in Ramallah, they were to go to the hospital and actually have the test done, to avoid suspicion, and then they were to be taken to the intended target locations.
Israel is often castigated by left-wing organizations that complain that Arabs from the PA are sometimes forced to wait at checkpoints for security checks, and are allegedly denied medical care. The GSS, however, notes that the case at hand is only one of many in which Arabs attempt to take advantage of Israel's humanitarian policies in order to murder Israelis.
No further comment needed.
Source: http://www.jihadwatch.org/
What misguided extremes the Palestinians have been driven to! :(
You know the worst thing? It will never end.
Generations of both sides in the conflict even bring it over here when they immigrate. I find it disgusting that anyone can use God's name to justify murder. No matter what religion.
You know the worst thing? It will never end.
Generations of both sides in the conflict even bring it over here when they immigrate. I find it disgusting that anyone can use God's name to justify murder. No matter what religion.
Oh, it will end!
It's going to be a bloody long time tho. Pun intended. :(
I hope that those working to bring peace have success and those on both sides wanting conflict become more wise.
robbo180265
06-14-07, 02:14 AM
You know the worst thing? It will never end.
Generations of both sides in the conflict even bring it over here when they immigrate. I find it disgusting that anyone can use God's name to justify murder. No matter what religion.
Oh, it will end!
It's going to be a bloody long time tho. Pun intended. :(
I hope that those working to bring peace have success and those on both sides wanting conflict become more wise.
I don't think it will end - both sides blame the other,when in reality they're both as bad as each other IMHO.:nope:
As long as people want to take vengeance for what the last generations did it will never end. They really could take a lesson from the west on this. Germany is now respected by all who went to war and so is Japan. America and the UK have good relations even though they killed each other. You could even go back futhur and look at Franch, Holland, Spain and the UK. All nice and chummy now.
Pitty we can't just get along.
FIREWALL
06-14-07, 02:26 AM
I showed this thread to my wife.
She shrugged her shoulders and said " The women had 8 kids to raise by
herself.... No wonder she wanted to commit suiside :dead:
As long as people want to take vengeance for what the last generations did it will never end. They really could take a lesson from the west on this. Germany is now respected by all who went to war and so is Japan. America and the UK have good relations even though they killed each other. You could even go back futhur and look at Franch, Holland, Spain and the UK. All nice and chummy now.
Pitty we can't just get along.
If you go back to the days of celtic and angl-saxon tribalism there was a major problem with blood feuding that would lead to lengthy and undending wars between clans. A solution was the Wergild. It made monetary reimbursement a way to settle the score instead of killing endlessly.
So you could easily see perhaps the cultures of the Middle-East grow out of it, maybe. But then again the Celts didn't have major superpowers pulling the strings to keep them fighting for one reason or another. The natural growth of the Middle East is hampered by our own personal interests there. It isn't a universal explanation for why things are the way they are, but certainly its a component of why it persists. Israel in particular is so obtuse to responsibility for anything. The simplest acknowledgement of at least unbiased facts surrounnding that part of the world is hard to come by so getting any kind of nominal progress is... well its far off. Both sides play the game.
Happy Times
06-14-07, 06:30 AM
I dont see how you can compare a democratic nation and terrorist groups with pregnant suicide bombers..:roll: The Palestinans have money but that goes to their Sheiks or who ever is in charge. Why dont they use that money to buy modern SAM, mortars, ATGM and ATGW. Train their piss poor shooters to hit something more than the air. Urban warfare, CQB, SF training and counter SF training. Start targeting only military, police and political targets. But they wont because they are the scum of the earth.
I showed this thread to my wife.
She shrugged her shoulders and said " The women had 8 kids to raise by
herself.... No wonder she wanted to commit suiside :dead:
LOL told about this to my wife and guess what she said? "What I don't understand is why they waited till the 9th to have that idea" :lol:
(We currently have two little beasts of 8 and 25 months)
Jimbuna
06-14-07, 09:04 AM
As long as people want to take vengeance for what the last generations did it will never end. They really could take a lesson from the west on this. Germany is now respected by all who went to war and so is Japan. America and the UK have good relations even though they killed each other. You could even go back futhur and look at Franch, Holland, Spain and the UK. All nice and chummy now.
Pitty we can't just get along.
If it can be sorted over in Ireland to an acceptable level surely there must be some hope for the Middle East :hmm:
Skybird
06-14-07, 10:05 AM
It's all madness down there, but it hasn't fallen down from the sky. It is man-made, and it is helped, pushed and wanted by man's motivations, agendas, ideologies, thoughts and goals. Where irrational mindsets, hysteria and hot emotions replace reason, calm and logic, we should think twice if we want to get involved. Better advise is to avoid such a hellhole at all cost - we have no means to deal with such a constellation. We also do not have the obligation, btw.
Not only species, but cultures and mindsets as well need to undergo an evolutionary process in order to develope to more advanced states. The Palestinians in special and the ME and Islam in general are no exception from that rule. And if Palestinians (or Muslims) don't like that to be told, or well-meaning but naive Westerners consider it unpolite to say so - who cares: it doesn't change this truth a bit.
I was critical of Israel building that fence some years ago. But I was forced to change my opinion. I repeatedly read statistics from Israel saying how clearly it has helped to reduce the number of attempted terror attacks - the innocence of facts that you can only counter by ignoring them. If Iran succeeds in taking over the Palestinian territories (and it looks like that), while it already has some major (and still growing) control in Lebanon as well, we maybe should remember that fence and understand that instead of trying to interact with the maniacs at all costs (and that means: at our costs), we better should spend our energy on isolating them and make sure that they cannot reach us from where they are. This of course also includes a major longterm intelligence operation, and if needed military operations, to supress any smuggling of modern arms and missiles into these territories. Money spend for that seems to serve a more constructive purpose than to pay for Palestine government with it that is not able or/and not willing to do something for us in return.
Every Euro in aide given to a Palestine hospital or school - is the one Euro Hamas and Fatah must not spend themselves on that hospital or school - thus being able to spend it on weapons and ammunition instead. It seems that the EU is not aware of this simple, elemental truth.
What a surprise.
And every dollar the Islamic countries do spend on raising more and more mosques and Islamic missionary beachheads in the West - is a dollar they do not spend on easing the fate of their brothers and sister called Palestinians. I really wonder why since months there is no money to pay the fees for teachers, bureaucrats, police - instead a loud yelling for the "responsebility" of the Europeans to pay for that, and demands for EU aide, and claims that one is "offended" if one is not given the money for free spending, but strictly attached for predetermined, civilian purposes (as the EU understands it).
As a matter fo fact, we owe them nothing.
Dear Palestinians, if you really would be so great and honourable, and the international community with your brothers and sisters in Islamic countries really would be such a wonderful thing and working so well - than you wouldn't be in the situation you are in now - since several decades. Instead of accusing all the others year for year, instead of increasing your population by a factor greater than four while your ressources became smaller and smaller, instead of letting foreign religious jihadists use your kids as cannon fodder for Islamic jihad, instead of offending, mocking, attacking us with your one hand while with your other hand you demand our money, I suggest you start to accept your share of responsebility for the mess you are in, and draw conseqeunces from that - finally, if I may add.
Of course I understand all too well that that is too much expected of you. And that is why I do not wish to spend a single Euro on you. I let you your will, and your choices. Now deal with what you get from that.
Skybird
06-14-07, 10:09 AM
As long as people want to take vengeance for what the last generations did it will never end. They really could take a lesson from the west on this. Germany is now respected by all who went to war and so is Japan. America and the UK have good relations even though they killed each other. You could even go back futhur and look at Franch, Holland, Spain and the UK. All nice and chummy now.
Pitty we can't just get along.
If it can be sorted over in Ireland to an acceptable level surely there must be some hope for the Middle East :hmm:
Different temperaments, different mentalities, different cultural tradition, totally different underlying ideologies, totally different views on life and world and cosmos, God and all that stuff.
If you compare Ireland to the Middle East, then this is as naive as giving japan and germany after WWII as a comparing reason why one thought that the Iraq war would suceed in turning the country into a "democracy".
Heibges
06-14-07, 11:58 AM
As long as people want to take vengeance for what the last generations did it will never end. They really could take a lesson from the west on this. Germany is now respected by all who went to war and so is Japan. America and the UK have good relations even though they killed each other. You could even go back futhur and look at Franch, Holland, Spain and the UK. All nice and chummy now.
Pitty we can't just get along.
If it can be sorted over in Ireland to an acceptable level surely there must be some hope for the Middle East :hmm:
Different temperaments, different mentalities, different cultural tradition, totally different underlying ideologies, totally different views on life and world and cosmos, God and all that stuff.
If you compare Ireland to the Middle East, then this is as naive as giving japan and germany after WWII as a comparing reason why one thought that the Iraq war would suceed in turning the country into a "democracy".
I have a bad feeling that 5 minutes after this War on Terror nonsense blows over, things will be SNAFU in Northern Ireland again.
I think the IRA was afraid of being linked to AQ, and then the British Government would be free to pull out all the stops against them.
Happy Times
06-14-07, 12:44 PM
As long as people want to take vengeance for what the last generations did it will never end. They really could take a lesson from the west on this. Germany is now respected by all who went to war and so is Japan. America and the UK have good relations even though they killed each other. You could even go back futhur and look at Franch, Holland, Spain and the UK. All nice and chummy now.
Pitty we can't just get along.
If it can be sorted over in Ireland to an acceptable level surely there must be some hope for the Middle East :hmm:
Different temperaments, different mentalities, different cultural tradition, totally different underlying ideologies, totally different views on life and world and cosmos, God and all that stuff.
If you compare Ireland to the Middle East, then this is as naive as giving japan and germany after WWII as a comparing reason why one thought that the Iraq war would suceed in turning the country into a "democracy".
I have a bad feeling that 5 minutes after this War on Terror nonsense blows over, things will be SNAFU in Northern Ireland again.
I think the IRA was afraid of being linked to AQ, and then the British Government would be free to pull out all the stops against them.
They dont need to, do to demographics. They only have to wait when they have the majority.
"The GSS, however, notes that the case at hand is only one of many in which Arabs attempt to take advantage of Israel's humanitarian policies in order to murder Israelis."
lolololololol!
Free Palestine.
Tchocky
06-14-07, 02:43 PM
I have a bad feeling that 5 minutes after this War on Terror nonsense blows over, things will be SNAFU in Northern Ireland again.
I think the IRA was afraid of being linked to AQ, and then the British Government would be free to pull out all the stops against them.
Not true, there's been lots of progress this past year. There are very few who want to go back to violence, and most of that is criminally related
robbo180265
06-14-07, 02:56 PM
I have a bad feeling that 5 minutes after this War on Terror nonsense blows over, things will be SNAFU in Northern Ireland again.
I think the IRA was afraid of being linked to AQ, and then the British Government would be free to pull out all the stops against them.
Not true, there's been lots of progress this past year. There are very few who want to go back to violence, and most of that is criminally related
I also like to add that we did pull out all the stops when fighting the IRA.
Granted we didn't build a wall around Belfast,or fly helicopter gunships in to attack military targets (and the odd housing estate, hospital etc) but hey! we did our best;)
Tchocky
06-14-07, 02:59 PM
Yeah, internment, harassment, it was a real blast.
(sorry, I would have done the same thing. It just sucked to be searched because of an accent or license plate)
Yahoshua
06-14-07, 05:38 PM
"The GSS, however, notes that the case at hand is only one of many in which Arabs attempt to take advantage of Israel's humanitarian policies in order to murder Israelis."
lolololololol!
Free Palestine.
http://www.bicom.org.uk/publications/terrorism/s/663/palestinian-abuse-of-amublances-for-terror/
http://www.israel-wat.com/ambulance_eng.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI62lXufeyI
http://www.lindasog.com/archives/2006/07/un_participants_in_terror.html
Well, I have no questions as to whose side you're on if this is the sort of thing you support.
***NO PERSONAL ATTACKS***
The Management
The Avon Lady
06-15-07, 01:38 AM
<ssnip>
Go ahead. :yep:
bitch, i could post a hundred videos of the same kind of ****ed up **** that israel does. don't even get me started on whos the bad one.
Dude you are barking up the wrong tree. You're fighting something that has American military backing. You won't be able to wint his argument. More eloquent and learned speakers have articulated it perfectly and still it ends up passed by.
I'm with you somewhat despite the swearing (never a good argumentative tactic, it just makes the people you're trying to argue against look better and reasonable just by not swearing back).
bitch, i could post a hundred videos of the same kind of ****ed up **** that israel does. don't even get me started on whos the bad one.You're fighting something that has American military backing. You won't be able to wint his argument. More eloquent and learned speakers have articulated it perfectly and still it ends up passed by.
I'm not sure I understand this part?
The Avon Lady
06-15-07, 03:27 AM
bitch, i could post a hundred videos of the same kind of ****ed up **** that israel does. don't even get me started on whos the bad one.You're fighting something that has American military backing. You won't be able to wint his argument. More eloquent and learned speakers have articulated it perfectly and still it ends up passed by.
I'm not sure I understand this part?
He means there are lots of smooth snakes with slitering tongues who promote the same agenda as you.
robbo180265
06-15-07, 04:17 AM
bitch, i could post a hundred videos of the same kind of ****ed up **** that israel does. don't even get me started on whos the bad one.You're fighting something that has American military backing. You won't be able to wint his argument. More eloquent and learned speakers have articulated it perfectly and still it ends up passed by.
I'm not sure I understand this part?
He means there are lots of smooth snakes with slitering tongues who promote the same agenda as you.
Or maybe he mean that: he doesn't live in Israel, so he's capable of an unbiased view on the subject;)
The Avon Lady
06-15-07, 04:20 AM
<snip>You're fighting something that has American military backing. You won't be able to wint his argument. More eloquent and learned speakers have articulated it perfectly and still it ends up passed by.
I'm not sure I understand this part?
He means there are lots of smooth snakes with slitering tongues who promote the same agenda as you.
Or maybe he mean that: he doesn't live in Israel, so he's capable of an unbiased view on the subject;)
But of course! To live outside of Israel is to be unbiased.
/sarcasm
Jimbuna
06-15-07, 04:56 AM
Off to Brighton tomorrow for a week but this is one thread I will be keeping a close eye to via the Blackberry :yep:
Skybird
06-15-07, 05:02 AM
If somebody indicates to me I have no right to defend myself with the needed force against an assassin who arbitrarily tries to kill me or somebody next to me, all such a person gets from me is two slaps in the face, and my honest contempt. Talking by experience. Come back to your senses, Cobalt.
Happy Times
06-15-07, 06:24 AM
***Pic far too graphic***
You can be as good as men if you blow your head off.:hmm:
<snip>You're fighting something that has American military backing. You won't be able to wint his argument. More eloquent and learned speakers have articulated it perfectly and still it ends up passed by.
I'm not sure I understand this part? He means there are lots of smooth snakes with slitering tongues who promote the same agenda as you. Or maybe he mean that: he doesn't live in Israel, so he's capable of an unbiased view on the subject;) But of course! To live outside of Israel is to be unbiased.
/sarcasm I think the real point is that to have an unbiased view of the Arab-Israeli conflict, ie. to criticize Israel in addition to the accepted criticism of the Palestinian Authority/Hamas/Anyone else thats associated with power in the occupied territories without receiving significant backlash, is nigh on impossible.
Its the fallacy of the false dilemma. Its one or the other. There are plenty of significant pro-zionists over the years that have been demonized for their criticism of Israel's policies. Much criticism is directed at the Anti-Defamation League for making the difference between anti-zionism and anti-semitism so narrow that any unequivocal criticism of Israel can be called as anti-semitic as at least a legitimate argumentative response.
The elementary point is that if the opening to your syllogy criticising Israel is 'bitch', then you don't have the stuff to be subtle enough.
(We currently have two little beasts of 8 and 25 months)
Now you have to show them. :yep:
PS: Perhaps we should have a thread, show us your kids.
Jimbuna
06-15-07, 02:59 PM
(We currently have two little beasts of 8 and 25 months)
Now you have to show them. :yep:
PS: Perhaps we should have a thread, show us your kids.
No way :nope:
robbo180265
06-15-07, 03:06 PM
I think the real point is that to have an unbiased view of the Arab-Israeli conflict, ie. to criticize Israel in addition to the accepted criticism of the Palestinian Authority/Hamas/Anyone else thats associated with power in the occupied territories without receiving significant backlash, is nigh on impossible.
Its the fallacy of the false dilemma. Its one or the other. There are plenty of significant pro-zionists over the years that have been demonized for their criticism of Israel's policies. Much criticism is directed at the Anti-Defamation League for making the difference between anti-zionism and anti-semitism so narrow that any unequivocal criticism of Israel can be called as anti-semitic as at least a legitimate argumentative response.
The elementary point is that if the opening to your syllogy criticising Israel is 'bitch', then you don't have the stuff to be subtle enough.
I agree with this statement - all of it, and as I said before I think that both sides are as bad as each other.
Yahoshua
06-15-07, 04:34 PM
.....and as I said before I think that both sides are as bad as each other.
And why is it that you see both sides are equally evil?
I don't quite see how Israeli soldiers using arabs to serve search warrants to their neighbors (because the suspected terrorist is less likely to shoot his neighbor) is as bad as indoctinating young children to kill all dhimmi or blowing up Israeli pizza parlors.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzA1NQ3vm9M&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrMpRMLxm0U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?search=palestinian+children+hate&v=5AiYIhdZcOg
Heibges
06-15-07, 05:53 PM
What misguided extremes the Palestinians have been driven to! :(
They are like violent versions of the monks who would set themselves on fire in Vietnam. Their methods are different, but the intended effect is much the same.
Skybird
06-15-07, 06:07 PM
What misguided extremes the Palestinians have been driven to! :(
They are like violent versions of the monks who would set themselves on fire in Vietnam. Their methods are different, but the intended effect is much the same.
:hmm:
NefariousKoel
06-16-07, 12:12 AM
I find the so-called "Palestinian" society, and much of Islamic culture/society, very lacking in this day and age with their idiocy such as this. :shifty:
It's taught to them all. In schools and in mosques.
Perhaps Skybird will tell us how they only want a hug now? :lol:
Yahoshua
06-16-07, 12:57 AM
If hugs could solve the worlds' problems we'd all be a hell of alot happier......too bad things aren't that simple.
Perhaps Skybird will tell us how they only want a hug now? :lol: Do you ever really process what Skybird says? If anything he agrees with you on Islamic culture, but his explanation of it is much more scientific and academic and lacks that vulgar flair that most people around here employ when dishing on Islam.
But like anything he says it isn't absolutist. So I'll let him defend himself, should he see the need, of your mischaracterization.
Skybird
06-17-07, 05:23 AM
But like anything he says it isn't absolutist. So I'll let him defend himself, should he see the need, your mischaracterization.
Hopeless with some people, like NK. It's not the first time he tries to create some issue about me, and out of nothing. Most recent example: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=116257
But thanks for your assistance! But let's leave the snakes alone.
Happy Times
06-18-07, 11:35 AM
Gaza's Christians fear for their lives
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1181813061916&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
What would result if this was the otherway around.:doh:
Happy Times
06-19-07, 07:39 PM
'Hamas are butchering people' ,and who helps them?:roll:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3415086,00.html
'Hamas are butchering people' ,and who helps them?:roll:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3415086,00.html
That is why the majority of the international population supports Israel. Would Palestinians have helped if the roles were reversed?
That is why the majority of the international population supports Israel. Would Palestinians have helped if the roles were reversed?
What kind of comment is that?
That is why the majority of the international population supports Israel. Would Palestinians have helped if the roles were reversed? What kind of comment is that?
A comment in response to http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...415086,00.html (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3415086,00.html).
Happy Times
06-19-07, 08:25 PM
That is why the majority of the international population supports Israel. Would Palestinians have helped if the roles were reversed?
What kind of comment is that?
A good one.
That is why the majority of the international population supports Israel. Would Palestinians have helped if the roles were reversed? What kind of comment is that?
A good one. A baseless, generalized, rascist comment without any kind of sophistication in it. Thats all it is.
That is why the majority of the international population supports Israel. Would Palestinians have helped if the roles were reversed? What kind of comment is that?
A good one. A baseless, generalized, rascist comment without any kind of sophistication in it. Its all it is.
Baseless?
You think I haven't seen the racism shown towards Jews by people around that area?
There was an Egyptian and some Lebonese when I was at high school and the way they treated a Jewish student gave me all I needed to have my opinion. Call me a racist? Look at yourself.
Tchocky
06-19-07, 08:36 PM
There was an Egyptian and some Lebonese when I was at high school and the way they treated a Jewish student gave me all I needed to have my opinion.
That chunk relieves me of the burden of responding, cheers :)
Baseless?
Pretty much.
Baseless?
You think I haven't seen the racism shown towards Jews by people around that area?
There was an Egyptian and some Lebonese when I was at high school and the way they treated a Jewish student gave me all I needed to have my opinion. Call me a racist? Look at yourself. Dial it back bucko.
For one existance of anti-semitism amongst certain people does not make returned rascism acceptable. Secondly it is a hasty generalization to say that because of one personal experience you can judge an entire people. That in fact is BLATANTLY rascist.
You can make whatever legitimate arguments you want about how the nature of Islamic culture leads to an ingrained intolorance towards alien cultures and how that in turn makes peaceful coexistance difficult or potentially impossible, but you cannot make unsubstantiated and broadly generalized slurs against a collected people. And certainly to do so in passing shows nothing but a lazy hatred.
How many middle eastern countries agree that Israel has a right to exist? I accept that the majority of muslims and people living in those countries are not fanatical lunatics or the type of people I have met who were racist to the point of hating someone because of their religion. I apologise if I offended anyone but it is MY OPINION which is not baseless or generalised. You can't ignore the fact that Israel is surrounded by potential enemies. To say so is pure idiocy.
You can't ignore the fact that Israel is surrounded by potential enemies. To say so is pure idiocy. I didn't say anything of the sort.
I was however attacking very specifically your inferred comment about how Palestinians would not show care to Israelis who were injured should the tables be turned. Such statements are both meaningless and also characteristic of how we look at Palestine. These people aren't inhuman. Because Hamas has all the moral integrity of the worst criminals of any nation doesn't mean that every Palestinian shares those feelings. And to suggest otherwise IS generalizing. It is common practise to paint the enemy as a whole with the brush of their worst characters. That simply isn't right.
You can't ignore the fact that Israel is surrounded by potential enemies. To say so is pure idiocy. I didn't say anything of the sort.
I was however attacking very specifically your inferred comment about how Palestinians would not show care to Israelis who were injured should the tables be turned. Such statements are both meaningless and also characteristic of how we look at Palestine. These people aren't inhuman. Because Hamas has all the moral integrity of the worst criminals of any nation doesn't mean that every Palestinian shares those feelings. And to suggest otherwise IS generalizing. It is common practise to paint the enemy as a whole with the brush of their worst characters. That simply isn't right.
Perhaps I should have said Hamas instead of Palestinians. I do not take my comment back however I do feel I should have taken more care in wording it. Perhaps a one line comment can't describe what my intended meaning was. But I would doubt many of the middle eastern governments would freely give aid to Israel.
Perhaps I should have said Hamas instead of Palestinians. I do not take my comment back however I do feel I should have taken more care in wording it. Perhaps a one line comment can't describe what my intended meaning was. But I would doubt many of the middle eastern governments would freely give aid to Israel. Governments are not characteristic of the moral integrity of the populations who support or denounce them. What some Islamic nations do or do not in regards to Israel is not the issue though. The issue is transferring the less than applaudable beahaviors of certain powerful groups onto the shoulders of the majority. Its the old example but its apt: Nobody would say that the German people were as evil as the Nazis. Same thing with the Irish and the IRA or even Quebecois and the FLQ. These reactionary extremists might gain some support from people or even be elected (see Hamas) but that doesn't mean that they are a direct representation of the human qualities of the people who they seek to control, represent, protect, or otherwise influence. In fact the worst transgressions by those groups usually leads to a backlash from the people who once cheered them on.
Further to that Israel will never need aid from Islamic nations. It has the US and the rest of the Western world. Israel exists because of them. The irrigation projects to make Israel into arable land was funded by the British government. Israel has access to the same level of military technology as the US because of their association as allies. It is far more complex than just "they hate the jews".
The issue of the recognition of Israel is another, very complex political one. I have my own accusations against both Israel and Palestine and other influential nations of the world (we shouldn't just mention Islamic nations since there are many more interested parties outside the region). Suffice to say though that my position is that the argument about the creation of Israel belongs in a time when my grandfather was my age. The future is in coexistance.
The issue of the recognition of Israel is another, very complex political one. I have my own accusations against both Israel and Palestine and other influential nations of the world (we shouldn't just mention Islamic nations since there are many more interested parties outside the region). Suffice to say though that my position is that the argument about the creation of Israel belongs in a time when my grandfather was my age. The future is in coexistance.
Nonetheless the issue of Israel's recognition is a very important base for my comments. It is an obvious example of why Palestine would be unlikely to aid Israelis.
Now i'm done with my baseless, generalised racist comments.
[
Nonetheless the issue of Israel's recognition is a very important base for my comments. It is an obvious example of why Palestine would be unlikely to aid Israelis. Who says that all Palestinians don't recognize the existance of Israel? Hamas doesn't. One of those distinctions.
The fact is that many proposals have been fronted by arab states and even the PLO, that have accepted Israel's existance with the intent of creating the much spoken of 'two state agreement' and they have been denied by Israel. Unfavourable terms I suppose.
Of course there is the Arab League's proposal from 2002 that includes the promise to normalize relations if Isreal returned to the 1949 armistice line. I believe it received complete support from Arab League states. And an article (http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewItem&itemID=15253) from April of this year states that a survey shows that 46.7% of people living in Gaza and the West Bank favour the 'two state solution'. Thats hardly enough to say that Israel is the dog it once was in the Middle East back in 67.
If that says anything important to this discussion its that it isn't as simple as saying the arab world wants to destroy Israel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKQqItZu4Is
Skybird
06-20-07, 05:20 AM
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Nonetheless the issue of Israel's recognition is a very important base for my comments. It is an obvious example of why Palestine would be unlikely to aid Israelis. Who says that all Palestinians don't recognize the existance of Israel? Hamas doesn't. One of those distinctions.
The fact is that many proposals have been fronted by arab states and even the PLO, that have accepted Israel's existance with the intent of creating the much spoken of 'two state agreement' and they have been denied by Israel. Unfavourable terms I suppose.
Of course there is the Arab League's proposal from 2002 that includes the promise to normalize relations if Isreal returned to the 1949 armistice line. I believe it received complete support from Arab League states. And an article (http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewItem&itemID=15253) from April of this year states that a survey shows that 46.7% of people living in Gaza and the West Bank favour the 'two state solution'. Thats hardly enough to say that Israel is the dog it once was in the Middle East back in 67.
If that says anything important to this discussion its that it isn't as simple as saying the arab world wants to destroy Israel.
The Israeli-Palestinian conflict isn't the top problemn anyway. It is the clash between Sunni (Arab League) and shia (Iran supporting Hamas, Hezbollah) Islam. With Iran currently being in the strongest position.
Takeda Shingen
06-20-07, 06:15 AM
Too hot. Too mean. Too nasty. Too childish.
Too-da-loo.
The Managment
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