[TEC] Sub launched mines a possibility?

[tater]

Idea:

Clone a torpedo.

Change 3D model to look like a 21" mine (whatever they roughly looked like).

Raise or lower warhead strength if needed (depending on how detonator works and what is realistic)

Drop propulsion to a range of <100 yards.

Set arming distance to a little less than the range it can move.

Make sure the weapon has no "lifetime" to disappear.

Make it not sink when propulsion finishes.

Ideally, disconnect it turning on the stopwatch.

We now have sub-launched mines. Set the "run depth" and the mine goes to that level and sits there.

If it must move to stay afloat at "run depth", we reduce mine speed to 0.001 knot and decrease the arming distance so that a sub at 1 knot will move ~100 yards away before it arms.

If you sat around, you might see it actually work. If it works after you leave station, assume the kill credit was via ULTRA or sigint.

Missions would be tricky since you get brief AFTER you reload in port. Dunno how to get around that...


Mark 10
Moored contact mine for firing from 21 inch (53.3 cm) torpedo tubes. This project was started in 1921, halted for a time, and then resumed. 1,760 lbs. (798 kg) total, charge of 300 lbs. (136 kg). Mod 1 was contact fired, Mod 2 was cancelled, Mod 3 was magnetic and weighed 1,800 lbs. (816 kg) with a charge of 420 lbs. (190 kg) of TNT. Mod 5 was an aircraft dropped version of Mod 2, cancelled. Mod 6 and 8 were parachute versions of Mod 3 and were replaced by Mod 9, all of these weighed 1,850 lbs. (839 kg) with a charge of 420 lbs. (190 kg) of TNT. Mod 7 was Mod 3 modified for PT boat launch. Mod 11 was a moored contact mine specifically developed for the USS Argonaut SS-475 and weighed 1,900 lbs. (862 kg) with a charge of 500 lbs. (227 kg) TNT.

Mark 12 (best choice, IMO):
Submarine launched mine. Cylindrical with an aluminum case, this mine was developed in the 1920s from German S-type mines. Dimensions were 20.8D x 94.25L inches (52.8 x 239.4 cm). Weighed 1,445 lbs. (655 kg) with a 1,100 lbs. (499 kg) TNT charge or 1,595 lbs. (723 kg) with a 1,250 lbs. (567 kg) Torpex charge. Mod 1 was parachute mine, Mod 3 was a submarine type and Mod 4 was a replacement for Mod 1. Some of these mines were delivered to Manila just before the start of World War II. They were dropped into deep water to prevent capture.

Less likely candidates:
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Mark 17
Submarine laid ground mine with magnetic triggering. Not clear if this was actually in service during the war. Total 1,825 lbs. (828 kg) with a charge of 1,375 lbs. (624 kg) Torpex. Mod 1 became the Mark 25.

Mark 27
Submarine launched mobile ground mine. 21D x 246L inches (53D x 625 cm). Range 4,500 yards (4,100 m) at 10.5 knots. Charge of 877 lbs. (398 kg) Torpex.

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WAMUS_Mine_mk13-19.jpg
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Note that we could set these "torpedos" to have a influence trigger, with extremely short range, like a fraction of a meter. That gets "contact" in any direction in case "contact" requires a hit at the front of a torpedo.



tater

[AVGWarhawk]

Tater,

Since there are mines already in the game and files that have data on them, I wonder if these files can replace loaded torpedo files:hmm:

[tater]

The mines in game are a totally different unit type though. Seems like sub-launched mines were laid and watched during part of the patrol by the sub that dropped them. They were largely ineffective, but using a torpedo as a model seems like it's be an easy mod assuming someone could mod the shap to a cylinder flat on the ends. Basically the flask on the current ones.

Seems like it should work.

[CaptainCox]

Those pics you have in the 1st post is what they actually looked like?

Even with a 3D model i think the texture would present a problem. If we use a "torpedo tweaked" 3D model, we have to use the original skin. And to add a completely "new" object in to the game is beyond...well me at least.

Oh another prob. If we used a existing torp...what to do with the "real" one, as its now a "mine"...

[tater]

No, the 2 images are marked which mine they are. Mk13 and Mk19. The Mark 12 is the obvious choice, IMO.

It is an aluminum cylinder. Seems like just the cylindrical part of a torpedo ((a mk10? A cutie?) might do the job.

I'm clearly not a 3d modder, more of an "idea guy" ;)

I know people "clone" ships, and then can alter them. This makes a new unit. Wouldn;t this be the same for a torpedo, or are they all contained in one nasty hex file?

tater

[CaptainCox]

Just had a look at the 3D data for the torps and yea, the Mk27 (cutie) would also be my choice to tweak. I think the 3D modeling is not the main prob...but rather how we can port/clone it back to the game. I think its a brilliant idea as a mod...but needs some serious :damn: and :doh: to get it right ;)

Hopefully some of the 3D guys can chip in here...please :roll:

All the torps are in one .dat, but cloning is something at least I have to read up on. DivingDuck or privateer would most likely be able to assist here.

[tater]

I've been rereading Blair, and another one of those dreaded mine missions came up for lack of torpedos. One sub even dropped mines, then waited and watched a maru sink after hitting one.

My "torpedo availability" thread was the result of the same reading last night, lol.

If renown cost is the only way to limit torps, you could make some mining missions ("patrols" right off a port) in a certain time frame, and have the torpedo cost be high, but the mines would be free. If you were a high performng boat, you'd have the renown to patrol as you'd like with torpedos, but if you were NOT, you'd only have enough renown to buy a handful of fish, and no choice but to fill the boat with mines...

[Jace11]

I thought...

No weapon will be rendered outside the 3d rendering distance?

No damage can be done by one unit to another outside the 3D rendering distance?

[tater]

Ah! That may very well be true. Given the ineffectiveness of the weapons in RL that wouldn't be far from reality though. The only way you'd really ever get credit for a sinking is if you actually saw it.

tater

[FAdmiral]

Actually, this was done in SH3. The converted torps (into mines) was a very
good mod. I layed mines alot when I played SH3 using it. A few of us had fun doing it in multiplayer too....

JIM

[CaptainCox]

Do you have a link to that mod please...;)

[FAdmiral]

Oops, it was not SH3 I was thinking of but SH2. It was before mines were
even put into the SH seriers games. I remember because we liked to lay them
in multiplayer so the guys doing Destroyer Command would hit them...

JIM

[THE_MASK]

Would it be possible instead of deploying commandos , to make them mines instead :hmm:

[FritzHeinz]

Sounds like a great plan. I would like to see missions where you are ordered to place mines at certain positions added to the campaign as well. And it would be great to see a taskforce enter that minefield...:rock:

[tater]

Yeah. Jace is almost certainly correct about the weapons disappearing at some range, but in RL, if a sub mined a harbor, they'd only know if it had any effect if they actually stuck around and watched.

The principal benefit would be a new mission type, and a reduced torpedo load. I believe they put 2-3 of these mines in each tube, so the amount of space they take up is also part of the ammo loadout.

You click on the map to leave the office. You get your orders. If the mission is to mine somewhere, you'd hit the "BACK" button instead of 'NEXT" and go back to the torpedo screen and dump torps in favor of the required mine load, then go on your way.

Note that if it is possible to clone a torpedo, we'd possibly have a way to limit torpedo availability as well. We could make a few "blank" torpedos. They'd literally not exist. Their purpose would be to fill slots in the port's torpedo load (unless the default is 24 of each type, then we're left with "price" in renown as the only limiting option.