[REL] A new set of campaign layers [Archive]

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tater

06-07-07, 12:00 AM

Now with more TROMy goodness!

New, Improved Campaign Layers version 0.78 (JSGME Ready):

http://files.filefront.com/Improved+Campaign+Layers+8rar/;8463198;/fileinfo.html

Beta Version 0.78
Removed some idiotic US traffic (some based from such famous 1943/44 us bases as RABAUL, lol).

Beta Version 0.77
OK, I'm starting to feel like a mini-supermod (because 1 thing was done by LukeFF ;) )

Included DynamicMiss changes by LukeFF

Included ship eqp changes from my Corrected Ship EQP 1.0 mod.

Included my Jap_DD_Yugumo mod (Radar fix reccomended, but I'm leaving it out for now)--this is just a variant Asashio with surface radar earlier in the war. If you've been playing without the radar fix, ALL ships have had surface search radar for a while anyway.

Various TF layer tweaks (been meaning to do that, and wulfmann got me convinced it was too ugly to leave as-is :-)
More TROM-based IJN traffic!

Kaibokan added, and 44 traffic reflects smaller escorts rather than DDs now. (Kaibokans are hit and miss, sometimes they seem to be dumb as stumps, sometimes they are the devil. Simple addition to give the japanese a badly needed escort beteen the SC and DDs considering kaibokan+ matsus were the most built escorts by far.

Several new patrol objectives added, including a new photo mission to Tarawa. It's a little flakey, needs testing! Others include a few new patrols for the Brisbane boats.

Airbase Replacement mod (linked below) still reccomended since it shortens CV plane ranges. (I only leave this out so people can still use Leo's excellent mod)

Radar fix reccomended! (link below)

IJN radar fix (not included, I forgot! Will be in 0.78):
http://mpgtext.net/subshare/544IJN%20Type13%20%20radar%20fix%202.0.rar

Beta Version 0.76
Paramushiro Patrol Fix (thanks, LukeFF!). Caused Alaskan careers to crash.
Variant CVs added without planes on deck.
CV airgroups considerably reduced.
Various group tweaks.

Airbase Replacement mod reccomended since it shortens CV plane ranges (link below)
http://mpgtext.net/subshare/864Airbase%20Replacement.rar

This mod does a lot to the airbases. I have a stand-alone version as well, but this is the add-on just for the campaign.

Airbase Replacement mod readme:
Airbase Replacement Mod version 0.9

This mod does a number of global things to aircraft and airbases. There are 2 versions, one for my campaign, and a stand alone. The latter includes the CV airgroups changes, the former does not since those changes are built into my campaign.

Changes from stock game:

Aircraft bomb loads corrected to historical norms.

CV aircraft have had their range reduced way below actual combat radius. CVs didn't fly all their planes around as CAP. By reducing the range, I am concentrating them closer to their ship---which is where planes flew CAP looking for subs if they did at all. It does no good for a zero to fly around alone looking form subs 800km from a CV steaming at 17 knots.

CV airgroups grossly reduced. CVs didn't fly many planes for CAP. The bulk of the CAP is zeros (no bombs), with a few bombers in there so that if a zeke spots you, you can expect a followup. Dive.

New airbases added: Flyingboatbase, small flyingboat base.
Old airbases are more specialized. Small has just "CV" planes. Floatplane base is actually used (just petes).
Normal has Zero and Betty (later Q1W1).
Larger has more planes but same as normal.

Airbase map is totally redone (jap only right now). There are many more airfields, but most are "small" with the lower ranged CV planes only. The flying boats and G4Ms still have the legs for maritime patrol. The bases turn on and off at more historical dates.

Beta Version 0.75
Various new traffic.
A few new surprises---this time not rare at all :D
Fixed Palau BB photo mission.

Beta Version 0.74
Added some more traffic to Carolines, Marshalls, Gilberts, etc.
Some new routes to Palau/Truk.
A surprise (pretty rare to see)
Thanks to JochenHeiden for pointing out some boring early war patrols to the Marshalls. There should be some traffic there now.

Beta Version 0.73
43a TF layer added.
42b jap subhunters added properly (stock mission is BLANK, I had followed someone else's lead and copied 42a, bu the group names are the same, possible bad mojo)
Aleutian and Kuril traffic added (after the june, 1942 invasion—patrols before then will be rather boring ;) ).
Beery's dutch harbor starts and patrols now active.
A couple new patrol objectives for PH (replacing others).
The 07 and 08 Quick Missions are included to work while mod is loaded.

Beta Version 0.72
43a convoy layer added.
Misc tweaks, more shore defenses, etc.

Beta Version 0.71Fixes my screwed up career start that CTDs in 1943.

Beta Version 0.70You MUST use the Taihosan Maru mod made by Jace11 to play this. Heck, everyone must unless they like to CTD now and again. Link below:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=118975

I was going to eliminate ammo, but didn't have to.

I added the 1.3 PH stuff so you can see wrecks, etc.

This version includes a version of Beery's career start stuff, so there are more start dates (helps for testing aside from being great).

Also, I have started messing with the patrols a little. If you like inserting spies to Japan, etc, you won't like this. Someday they will be coastwatchers, etc, but right now they are simply gone. Some of the photo missions (all but 1 of the Japan photo ops are gone, I left the rest away from the Empire for now) are also gone. They are silly. Taking pics of ships is idiotic, that is intelligence they got by sigint. Taking a pic of things that can MOVE... the ships you photograph would easily beat you to PH if they wanted to, what's the point? "Here ya go, Admiral, pictures of where warships capable of 30+ knots were a month ago!"

Beta Version 0.69
Added a new 42a_Jap_Convoys mission.
Added a new harbor traffic for new ports of call.
Added a few new reefs.

Notes on 0.68
Fixed a CTD problem in many layers. 0.67 was an internal build.
Thanks to Jace11 for helping discover the source of many CTDs!

Notes on 0.66
Fixed a CTD problem related to convoy 132 in 41a_Jap_Convoys.mis.

Notes on Version 0.64 (beta) posted 21 June, 2007
Fixed a CTD problem related to Agano and Akizuki entry dates.

NOTE: the mod will ask to overwrite the Nematode fix mod if you are running it (you should be!). My altered large tanker is altered from the Nematode version, so it should be OK to allow it---all I did was up his max speed.

Notes on Version 0.63 (beta) posted 19 June, 2007

Fixed a CTD problem in after July, 1944.
Added NOL_Nippon.sim file to properly fix spped to 19 knots max.
Various tweaks including some frustrating TFs moving at very high speeds sometimes.

Notes on Version 0.62 (beta) posted 12 June, 2007

Added a TF and convoy layer that touch Truk or Palau for the 2d part of of 42 through middle 43. Added merchants 42b layer that goes to truk, etc.

Fixed an issue with Campaign_LOC that left the file blank (no ports anywhere!).

Roster changed for Akizuki, Agano and Taiho to correct their availibility dates. Akizuki is pushed into 1942 when she first went to sea. I am thinking of pushing her into 1943, actually. She was alone in her Class until October 42, then a 3d and 4th in January 43, etc. the "generic" choice seems to like pulling the newest/biggest I notice.

Version 0.6:
Changed all the nets to allow escorts to pass near channels.

This was not in the earlier readmes, but I thought I should add a note. There are a few places in my campaign layers right now (more as I go back and add them in future versions!) where ships actually put into port, stay a while (days most places, days or even weeks at places like Truk), then leave again. The same ships, not ships disappearing at last waypoint, then respawning to leave.

This means you might attack ships putting in to Truk on the west side of the atoll, sinking a CL, for example. The remaining 6 ships go inside. You hang around for several days waiting for more traffic. After a week you decide to spend a day or two at the east channel out of the lagoon. What luck! Ships are standing out sea at 7 knots! Wait a while... looks like the same TF you saw a week ago, even minus the CL you sank! They must be heading for Rabaul---the ones that survive, that is. Your attack is foiled by an escort who drives you down as they speed away at 18 knots. Damn. You maintain the patrol for another 3 weeks off Truk sinking a merchant, foiled with bad torpedos on the few attacks you make. Time to think about heading back to the barn, you need some time at the Royal Hawaian. A day or so on the east side again before heading NE to PH. Sonar contact SSE, warships! You set up in the hops you can attack with most of your remaining fish, which are mostly in your stern tubes. They appear over the horizon in your scope... Damn! It's that same TF again—back from Rabaul where it was at anchor for a week—zig-zagging at 17 knots...

^^^ Palau/Truk/Kavieng/Rabaul is like that in the spring right now. I have a little test of it on the China coast (clear to Burma)as well. I want the whole map to be like that.

Notes on Version 0.5 (beta)

Tweaked things a little generally.

Added Truk as a going concern. Convoys/TFs head there through the spring of 1942. Note that I only have this through spring in detail. Truk has another resupply that is periodic til later in the war as well, but 0.5 is really early war.

Reefs added to Palau and Truk. Used sub nets for reef. Hitting a reef is bad, mmmm'k? You are welcome to infiltrate truk lagoon, or the Palaus, but I'd watch for traffic in and out, then figure out where they come from. The channels WERE in the right places, but the AI was too stupid to deal with them being narrow, and I wanted the to and fro traffic to be escorted.

Just don't go into the lagoons if you wish to be realistic. There are MINES and ASW assets in there if you do. Beware.

I need feedback on Truk and Palau. Thanks!

Here is a replacement Beta set of campaign layers. I won't call them historical, a better name might be "reduced traffic layers with zig-zags." All the japanese random traffic layers (merchants, convoys, TFs, sub hunters, etc) have been altered in some way. At minimum, all the groups now zig zag---don't trust contact reports for heading since they WILL show heading on a zig or zag, not base heading! Most have timing between sorties increased, particularly TFs.

Thanks to Mcoca for his Automated Editor, and Lurker_hlb3 for help making sense of the code. Thanks to Jace11 for helping discover the source of many CTDs!

Musings:
In addition to zig-zags, the traffic is generally reduced, and the contact reports are as well. I now play without the shortened contact report range since it doesn't matter much with this set of layers.

The TFs have some better arrays of forces. All move faster than stock. I deleted the majority of the oilers with TFs.

I started early war, so once things get to '44, it's closer to the stock game. OTOH, the large convoys, etc, make more sense then as well.

I'm not happy with the south traffic to Rabaul. The stock layers take a jag mid ocean for no reason. It;s as if they thought Truk should be there, but had no idea where. A future version will route all such traffic via Truk, but it's a ton of work.

Files that change from Stock Campaign:
All the random Jap_ mission files that involve traffic. Merchant, convoy, troop, TF, and subhunters. Think I altered some Jap_ harbor traffic as well.

US harbor traffic reduced at PH, Midway, and maybe Australia as well.

Campaign_LOC has Midway's airfield object (that includes the giant port facility) removed. Gone. Midway now has palm trees and buildings. It still has too many buildings, and it shouldn't have trees, but at least it looks inhabited, but not like the Brooklyn Naval Yard. Honaria is also gone (hopefully I remembered to axe the harbor traffic there, too). Truk added, along with a few places in the Marianas.

Battle of Midway altered to my current version.

A new test layer is in there as well. It's a combo of some coastal traffic (small shipping worth a fish, not junks) along the chinese coast (all the way to Burma), and some supply runs to Truk and Rabaul using some novel techniques (least I think they are).

Campaign.cfg changed to add my test layer.

Sea and Roster files altered to change the Minesweeper and Subchaser to "corvettes" so that they will function as escorts.

Sea file for the large tanker altered in the cfg file to up the speed to 19 knots from 12 (historical) so it may be used properly as a Fleet Oiler and not slow them down.

NOte: The Sea/Roster changes will break any mission/patrol that has minesweepers or subchasers explicitly placed in them, likely with a CTD. There are not too many of those I think, but be aware of it!

No Version may be used for any commercial purposes.

nomad_delta

06-07-07, 01:10 AM

Sounds excellent; I'll download & try it out for my next campaign. I'm switching to 100% realism for my next run so that should be interesting. ;)

Just out of curiosity, did you happen to change the cargo loadouts for any of the merchant shipping? I'd read elsewhere that the reason it can often take so many torpedos to kill merchants and especially tankers in the stock campaign is that they're almost all empty or carrying only basic freight. That is, no oil or fuel for the tankers, and never any ammunition or such for the merchants, making them much harder to kill than they should be.

I think someone had mentioned that it should be possible to use Mcoca's Automated Editor to apply random cargo loadouts to the entire campaign to fix that, and I was thinking of making an attempt at that myself. If you've already done something similar, though, I'll just use yours. :D

Thanks!

nomad_delta

tater

06-07-07, 08:07 AM

I changed a bunch by hand, but not all of it, no.

Was on my list of things to do.

ReallyDedPoet

06-07-07, 08:09 AM

Thanks tater for your efforts on this, d\l now:up:

RDP

tater

06-07-07, 08:16 AM

Very much beta, that's why I made it easy to install/uninstall ;)

tater

ReallyDedPoet

06-07-07, 08:18 AM

Appreciate it:up:

RDP

thasaint

06-09-07, 05:07 PM

Lagger123987

06-09-07, 07:52 PM

What's Compagin Layer?

tater

06-09-07, 08:02 PM

SH4 uses a layered set of missions to generate a campaign. It's broken into time periods, and for each block of time there are missions for lone merchants, convoys, troopships, task forces, etc. All these are "layered" (loaded on top of each other concurrently).

I took the existing layers run in the campaign and made some changes.

I reduced a lot of the traffic so it didn't feel as much like a shooting gallery.

I altered the composition of the TFs so they would be a little more different from each other, and not so much like the entire Combined Fleet every few days.

I also set all the traffic to zig-zag, instead of the straight line paths they take in the stock game.

tater

06-11-07, 01:36 AM

I started messing with things a little more seriously. So far I've only done the 2 earliest TF layers, but I added Traffic to Palau and Truk, and from there to Rabaul and Kavieng. Now I need some coastal guns.

I also think in lieu of reefs, I'm gonna net in Truk. It'll be full of juicy targets, but god help you if you try and go in there. Ditto Palau.

Argus00

06-11-07, 05:43 AM

@ tater - great job, mate:up:

Re. Truk and Palau - I've always loved a good challenge :D

Hitman

06-11-07, 07:12 AM

This is a much needed work, your doing a great service to us all:up: Please keep it coming! :yep:

tater

06-11-07, 11:58 AM

I got through the spring of 1942 so far. Truk now has a "reef" of sub nets with a few passages. The gaps are patroled, however. Palau is next. I'll zip it up and release an update soon.

I'm still having Midway issues. Like the default Midway battle, it's date related.

Grrrr.

tater

tater

06-11-07, 12:33 PM

Is there a quick way to set start dates for careers? I'd like to alter PH so that instead of starting a 1942 career June 11th, I can start one in February or so for testing. I want go park by Truk and maybe try and sneak in. :D

Getting Palau/Truk/Rabaul in the game is a major addition, actually. In 1942 more than 1/2 of the patrols sent from PH were to Truk.

tater

Hitman

06-11-07, 02:17 PM

Sounds incredible so far :up:

Is there a quick way to set start dates for careers? I'd like to alter PH so that instead of starting a 1942 career June 11th, I can start one in February or so for testing. I want go park by Truk and maybe try and sneak in. :D

Yes tehre is but I can't explain you how. Trigger Maru had it and I think RFB also had, maybe you should contact Beery:hmm:

tater

06-11-07, 03:06 PM

cc.

Going back through every single layer to make sure that ships don't run into my "reefs" is a PITA, lol. I was testing and forgot to change my harbor traffic #2 mission to the default name and I had stuff "aground" all over on fire, lol. Interesting that a DD on a net blows up, but I backed my sub off with only damage. Back off fast and you can sink the boat!

Mwhahaahahaahah!

Now I need to make sure the AI is smart enough not to drive escorting DDs into nets.

tater

DiveMonkey

06-11-07, 06:33 PM

tater, these layers are excellent :up:
I loaded em over RFB, just came across a medium Task-force.
Assorted DD, two Kongo's, and a couple Heavy cruisers.
All doing Zig Zag. Put three in the first Kongo and had DD all over me. Dove deep, set coarse S,SE and evaded.

Cot up to em again a few hr's later, they were back doing Zig Zig...got off 3 more shots but all were duds :damn: Kongo escaped.
I'm RTB, out of torps :nope:

Still, A good patrol :up:

tater

06-11-07, 06:47 PM

Cool! Sounds like my patrols of late. At least you got to attack, lol.

I was gonna release this, but my tests show that the AI is clueless about their own nets. Perhaps that's why they didn't bother using a single net in all the campaign layers.

So looks like I need to use a mix of nets and dense mines.

AVGWarhawk

06-11-07, 07:24 PM

Very awesome Tater. I knew you could do it. This is what the game needs. Just to many contacts and convoys. Do you think I should load this while in port?

tedhealy

06-11-07, 08:08 PM

Zig zags you say? I'm in. Downloading now.:rock:

tater

06-11-07, 08:46 PM

The current DL is NOT the version with Truk. I aim to get that out perhaps tonight. The bloody AI just rams into the sub nets. I made sure the coastal, harbor, and even convoys/Tfs avoided the "reefs" but the escorts move pretty far afield I'm afraid. That means instead of a narrow channel into the lagoon, it needs to be pretty wide.

Kind of annoying, actually. More half-baked work.

tater

tater

06-11-07, 10:44 PM

$#@!%@#%@#% AI.

Ahem.

Damn AI collides with the nets, even though they are their own nets. You'd think they'd have the avoidance set up like friendly ships. I hate the fact that my tiny channel needs to be several kilometers across to hope to get even single row convoys through.

Argh.

I've also found that mines are the one thing I've seen in game that slows things down. Another thought for making Truk a "no-go" zone was to completely mine the entire lagoon. The mines would need to be deep so IJN ships wouldn't blow up, but you'd be in big trouble if you tried to evade.

If ships have any ability to evade land forms, raising the reef above sea level would be the idea solution. I might have to make this less cool than I wanted to get it to work. If you want a real Truk, just don't even try to sneak in since no one ever would have in RL.

tater

06-12-07, 12:19 AM

Ver 0.5 posted at top of thread with some notes.

Wish the AI was smarter or I had a better solution to the reef issue. I'm wondering if a "ship" reef object would work since the AI seems to try and avoid collision with friends...

Jace11

06-12-07, 07:21 AM

Tater, I have had a go at Truk too, though in early stages...

I put a very small pacific harbor on dublon, South coast were the fuelling pier is supposed to be on WWII maps.. and a couple of ships.

I put a couple of DDs in the harbor traffic layer etc, shore batterys, but restricting access to the lagoon is tough..

It is very shallow there so any sub that is detected should have a hard time from ASW ships (unless they try and ram in which case the sub will win). Lots of big shore batteries set to elite help (increase gun range too in cfg files) to kepp subs from getting too close. Made the airbase Elite too...

Was also thinking about making a new land unit...

It would be a copy of the land bunker, no guns etc, but I may try and give it a surface search radar.. need an R Node, but I think I can just rename it in the hex... difficult to test if its working though..

Truk lagoon is well populated in the BattleofTruk layer btw.. shame they didin't make the place it should be..

Also worth rerouting a few merchies to the skirt round the islands if you haven't already.

P.S Currently working on a superb BattleofGuadalcanal layer...

Savo Island is a busy place Nov12-15 1942!!!

tater

06-12-07, 08:34 AM

The truk batlle layer is awful looking. My first thought looking at it was to just delete everything from it, lol. The US TFs steam right into the lagoon, lol. Ugly. The japanese shipping is all over the place rather than where they really anchored, too.

Jace, DL my mod, and have a look at the jap minefields and the 42a TF layer merged to get a feel for what I did. I think the nets can be used, but you need to try and keep the ships decently far away from the "reef." Some groundings here and there are OK, frankly, it happened in RL. I just read about a large jap warship getting damaged on the reef at Truk in Blair, in fact.

The ships that usually ground are the DDs since their AI has them vary a lot from the waypoints to sweep. The groundings are only really noticeable because the bloody DDs burst into flames every time they ship water. That is a DD damage issue, just like the bogus ramming causing explosions thing. We need to mod the DD DM, shipping water != fire :damn: .

I've only gotten through early 42 so far, and this is just minor work. Just so you know what I see for Palau/Truk, what I want is this:

Unlike the rest of the pacific, traffic like: Truk/(Kavieng)/Rabaul or Palau/(Truk)/(Kavieng)/Rabaul was usually escorted. Warships sailing to and from the Empire or rear areas would be tasked to herd supplies there. This is the "front" in IJN ASW doctrine. The Combined Fleet was responsible for protecting it, and more importantly, it was their "stuff" being shipped so they wanted it protected.

If the AI avoids land at all, the best reef solution would be to make the reef land, even if only 0.1m above sea level will work. If that will not work (same grounding issues), then the best thing to do IMO is to make reef objects that are ships. If the Environmental "nation" of ships is avoided by AI in the same way they stop to avoid collision with japanese shipping, then place the objects in that "nation" where they belong. Sink the reef "ship" with the altitude marker in the mission. Done.

Truk, etc needs a reef to be anything like realistic IMO.

I'm looking forward to seeing your Solomons stuff!

<S>

tater

Jace11

06-12-07, 09:15 AM

Yeah, ok I have downloaded it, my home internet is down, so ill look at it tonight and post comments tomorrow.

kikn79

06-12-07, 09:41 AM

tater

06-12-07, 09:42 AM

Wait, I have a fix! I had experimented with changing the depth of the nets, but I never saw anything from it. I found a net actually used by the devs in one mission (yellow sea photog, it's NOT on the mines layer, and they had depth set to -5 so I tried that.

It works.

Now I can make the areas near the channels nets that do not break the surface. You'll be able to go over the reef there on the surface---which will be a bad idea, particularly when I park an elite DD next to ever channel.

Back in bidness!

removing link for now.

tater

06-12-07, 11:14 AM

Think I have it sussed out. Version 0.6 posted at first post in thread.

It isn't impossible to get in in wide areas, but it's pretty hard submerged (and usually not possible at all).

When I get even more ASW, etc active, it will be fortress Truk INSIDE the reef. The proper place to hunt is outside.

Now I have to figure out the way the mission assignments work so that ~50% of the early war missions can go to Truk from PH (then maybe ~1/3 in 1943, and very few after that I think).

tater

kikn79

06-12-07, 11:28 AM

Great work. I will try this out tonight (if the wife lets me) or tomorrow if she doesn't.

Thanks!!!

Chuck

tater

06-12-07, 11:45 AM

If I get the chance tonight after kids are down, etc, I will work on the 2d half of 1942.

As I go through I've been trying to also make sure that japanese shipping isn't going to ports where they do not belong. There were a few convoys that left from Port Moresby, for example (!?!). I guess their merchant marine wasn't notified that the invasion was canceled after the Battle of the Coral Sea, lol.

AVGWarhawk

06-12-07, 03:52 PM

Tater,

Just read you description and I love the idea of ships going into harbor and coming out again. That is just brilliant. Many a maru would go into safe harbor and subs would wait for them. Fantastic! I'm all over this to night! Keep going, this game starves for what you have done:yep:

ReallyDedPoet

06-12-07, 07:37 PM

THE_MASK

06-12-07, 10:30 PM

Keep up the good work..............i mean , great thanks:D .

LukeFF

06-12-07, 11:49 PM

Great job on this! How are the Battle of Java Sea and Sunda Strait scenarios? Are they even in the game? Are they even worth doing, given the complete lack of Dutch warships?

tater

06-13-07, 12:20 AM

There is a dutch navy mod, but since it requires some new ship stuff I haven't added it in. Perhaps laters I'll do a supermod like RFB, but only concentrating on the campaign files, and any ship changes needed.

I borked the Campaign_LOC.mis in the last file, I need to update the DL ASAP.

tater

06-13-07, 01:08 AM

Version 0.62 up.

Fixed my screwy campaign_LOC that caused no ports on map!

Added some 42b layers (that means stuff to Truk, etc from sept 42 through aug 43).

Toned down the earliest convoys a little more. Many will be convoys in name only.

Direct link to DL:
http://mpgtext.net/subshare/962Improved%20Campaign%20Layers%20v0.62.rar (http://www.mediafire.com/?f3mjjdgw7zh)

tater

Bando

06-13-07, 07:16 AM

This is a great mod.

Thank you:up: :up: :up:

Bando

06-13-07, 12:06 PM

Tater,

Just did another patrol, all the harbours were gone. Is this intentional?
I could end my mission at Java, but no harbour there (on the map).:hmm:

The zigzagging convoys and the speed of the warships and takgroups make life in an S class miserable..........:-?
as I said, great mod:up:

Bando

tater

06-13-07, 12:48 PM

Yeah, I screwed up the harbor file and it was blank!

New versions (0.61+) correct that.

Version 0.62 here:
http://mpgtext.net/subshare/962Improved%20Campaign%20Layers%20v0.62.rar

tater

Bando

06-13-07, 01:06 PM

d/l now, thanks

tater

06-13-07, 01:11 PM

BTW, aside from obvious bugs like me blowing up the harbors file (thanks for catching it!), I am really interested in feedback on:

1. Contact reports. How are they? Too few now?

2. Traffic volume. Seeing too many of X vs Y? Go on patrol and see nothing but liners in one area? That sort of thing. The nature of the zig-zags vs radiused waypoints is that the ships will follow the same path. Too many too close together might be a problem. Tried to keep em thin, but there are many many groups, might have missed some.

3. Truk and Palau. If you are checking that out, let me know if there are crashed ships on the nets, etc.

These might just evolve into what I really want to see, I'm waitign for 1.3 to decide. Also, I'd recommend playing with the ship speed correction mod since without it the AI is far more likely to crash, etc.

tater

tater

06-13-07, 01:23 PM

The zigzagging convoys and the speed of the warships and takgroups make life in an S class miserable..........:-?
as I said, great mod:up:

Yeah, the speeds are the critical difficulty IMO. Zigs away from you are just as often zags towards you, lol. The speed of TFs and troopships makes them challenging, even for fleet boats, particularly combined with rare contact reports. Faster also means that once you spot them, unless they are bearing down directly on you, you'll have to rush to get in position, and the attack evolves quickly. If you need to switch targets near shooting range you then need to set up very fast.

tater

LukeFF

06-13-07, 03:48 PM

BTW, aside from obvious bugs like me blowing up the harbors file (thanks for catching it!), I am really interested in feedback on:

1. Contact reports. How are they? Too few now?

Personally, I think they're really good. Early on in the war there was little intelligence about Japanese ship movments, and so far I think your new campaign layers reflect this well. You really have to work now to find those contacts!

Bando

06-13-07, 06:08 PM

[quote=taterIf you need to switch targets near shooting range you then need to set up very fast.
tater[/quote]

Shooting the MK 10 is not a big help either. These were supposed to be the more reliable fishes at the start of the war, but they are not. (in my opinion)

Everytime I d/l your upgraded versions I start a new career from manilla in an old S class. So trying to figure out what was different with the last one. All in all the amount of traffic is dense (early in the month -dec 41) near manilla and the convoys I encounter are mostly on the same spot as the previous campaign layer tweaks you did. That's fine with me, cause they all have the long legged zig zag applied and as said before, that's very challenging in the S class. Haven't been to Truk as of yet, will go there later on.

What I'm trying to do now is finding a way to have Beerys RFB mod, Ducimus TMaru's AI tweak to get the DD more of a challenge, all the eye candy tweaks from kriller, this mod, and a lot of others into 1 mod.
So far I've experienced a lot of CTD's, but I'm not giving up.

I've installed an Nvidia 8800 today, I'm sailing now with external view enabled for the moment, my jaw is lower than it has been ever before.
Despite all the complains about the game, the graphics are, .........well GREAT

Loving this game, loving the mods, loving the modders mosthttp://www.subsim.com/radioroom/images/icons/icon14.gif

Regards
Bando

tater

06-13-07, 09:35 PM

I haven't actually messed around much with the "eastasiacampaign" wich is the mission at the start of the war. I meant to do it with the exact ships, but didn't get around to it.

There is actually an invasion convoy in the Java Sea (in RL) that has something like 35-50 marus. That would be cool to add in.

Bando

06-14-07, 04:48 AM

Strange, they all do the zig zag and the speed of mil. vessels is increased

tater

06-14-07, 08:11 AM

Well, there are 2 things going on. The random layers are always there. There are sets of invasion forces that are in addition to all the random stuff. That file is little changed, without ZZs.

So yeah, you can see both. The invasion forces are only 6-8 TFs.

Bando

06-14-07, 08:50 AM

I've seen the invasion forces. They consist of 1-3 DD's and about 8 smaal passenger carriers. It was in shallow water without wind so I decided just to report them, not attack.
Is there anything that can be done about the game saying you have to inflict damage, cause even after sinking the whole bunch it's still not accomplished.

This morning (lovely day off) I ran into a taskforce off Balikpapan on their way to Java sea. Zigzagging all the way, but now I had a lucky break when I was about to give up they zigged towards me. Sank one carrier and sneaked out safely. Great stuff.

The feel of the zigzagging traffic is much better, as in RL they'd do it all the time. This being a long legged ZZ, when a sub was detected near, they'd go to a short legged ZZ, meaning changing couse erraticaly every minute or so. I guess it's hard to implement and I'm happy that they ZZ in the first place.

I for one love this modification and will report now and then of any particularities when stumbling upon them:up:

Thanks big time
Bando

tater

06-14-07, 09:12 AM

Yeah, I looked at the eastasiacampaign last night, and I think I need to fix it up. Some of the forces are rather less excorted than they should be. Why? because the stock game set them all to #$%#$@!$$#@! Akizukis. Odd since she wasn't even at sea during that time period (they used start dates for ships when they came off the ways or weere commissioned, but not fitted out or really ready to put to sea).

So I axed all of them, but forgot to fix them up. Next version will fix this.

BTW, the current version is zig-zagged etc through september 1943.

Also, in the latest version I changed the start date on Akizuki to ~mid 1942. I need to see if I can place them explicitly in scripted missions before the start date. If I can, then I would probably change the start date to 19430115 or so. Given that in the first year of the war there was (weighted) 1 Akizuki ((~9 months of 1, 2 months of a 2d ship, and 1.5 months of a third=12.5 ship-months) for the whole year. We should never see one statistically. Better to remove them.

I actually think that I made a bettwer east asia campaign, but forgot to move it from my old computer :/

Actually, Jace or someone might have already done a better one.

Bando

06-14-07, 09:44 AM

:up: I'll be awaiting the next version with high hopes. This mod really is worthwile for me. The reality factor went up sky high as far as I'm concerned.

Don't hurry though, I'm currently out on patrol, let me finish this one first.:rotfl:

Regards

Bando

tater

06-14-07, 09:50 AM

Yeah, other than correcting any major issues, I'll wait for 0.7 with more complete stuff. Then from 0.7 to a 1.0 I will make it prettier. I'd also like the 1.0 version to have new patrols (truk, palau, etc).

I also need to add traffic to the Marshalls (there is about zero in the stock game) and to the Aleutians.

I wish some 3D guru would make some small coastal shipping, lol. I'd be all over that.

tater

Bando

06-14-07, 02:38 PM

About contact reports. Just finished my second patrol from 02 feb 42 untill 07 march 42. I had to patrol Celebes sea out of Surabaya. I received 2 radio reports of taskforces (both within 200Nm) and 1 merchant popped up on the map at about 20 Nm without a radio call. I think this is realistically correct. I don't know for sure how many they received back then but I can imagine it wasn't a lot.

There were a whole bunch of ships to hunt down, they just had to be found by eyeballmarkone and (for me) that's how it should be......

AVGWarhawk

06-14-07, 03:07 PM

tater

06-14-07, 03:23 PM

I also need to go back and add alternate routes. I need to get the code right so I can demark the "bogus" return paths so that only the paths I want...

just got an interesting idea, maybe I needn't do that for some.

I'm leaning towards a traffic model where most ships leave a home port, sail to a destination, hang around a while, then RTB to their home port. Having most of the home ports in Japan meand there are fewer places to lock up tight. The idea is that once pace a certain point you'd never tak a sub into a real port (no US submarines ever entered Tokyo Bay until after the war was over, for example). I prefer the idea of ships disappearing out of any possible view of the players. It hasn't happened to me yet, but there are many places where TFs and convoys disappear in open water near ports (just NE of Rabaul, for example). You could literally fire a spread of 6 fish there and have an entire battlegroup vanish into thin air.

buteobuteo

06-14-07, 03:26 PM

Mod sounds great.
Just want one point clarified,does all traffic zig-zag all the time.

tater

06-14-07, 03:38 PM

Almost all of it, yes.

I have a few radiused waypoints here and there, and I have a few loops that skip the zig-zags (lazy merchant captains, TFs in a rush ;) )

The zig-zags are typically on the order of a zig or zag every 20 to 60 minutes. They vary over the trip for the group though.

Late war (which I haven't done yet) I'm going to experiment with some of the fast zigzags I read about in books like Silent Running---2-5 minutes per leg, truely short enough to foul up a torpedo attack at range.

buteobuteo

06-14-07, 04:20 PM

I,m quite capable of fouling up my attacks without any help from the Japs.
Going to try it anyway,at least I'll have an excuse for missing now.

Bando

06-14-07, 08:32 PM

I,m quite capable of fouling up my attacks without any help from the Japs.
Going to try it anyway,at least I'll have an excuse for missing now.
LOLTater, about the traffic. It may have been coincidence but I had to patrol Luzon Straits early march 42 and about every day a huge liner with a single DD escort came right in front of my tubes. (the torpedoe tubes is what I mean) This patrol I also had radio reports of contact at 900 Nm Just to inform.........Bando

tater

06-14-07, 09:01 PM

cc, I need to check the troopships, they are pretty bad. Also, I need to add some alternate paths.

thx!

tater

LukeFF

06-17-07, 07:04 PM

tater, have you done anything to the mid-1944-1945 layers? Every time I try to load a campaign from one of those dates, the game kicks me back to the desktop.

tater

06-17-07, 07:29 PM

No, and I've never tried them. Will look and see.

tedhealy

06-17-07, 11:23 PM

Did you work on the east china sea area in early 1942? I ran into a Akitsu CVE on Feb 15, 1942 doing 5 knots (at 127E, 28N approximately). It may have had something funny happen to it because a rather large group of warships was out in front of it doing what had to have been way more than 5 knots (not sure, it was pitch black and I never could ID any ships or get a good speed estimate). They passed and then roughly 20 to 30 minutes later the lone CVE showed up. I was able to close on it and it definitely was doing 5 knots, 'cause I nailed him with that solution.

Maybe it ran into something and damage reduced it's speed.

tater

06-18-07, 12:17 AM

Akitsu Maru could be around randomly in 1942. Perhaps some sank in a storm? Every once in a while I have seen wierd stuff, stock, and modded.

LukeFF

06-18-07, 11:32 PM

No, and I've never tried them. Will look and see.
Hmm, that's strange, then. At first I thought it may have something to do with the equipment loadouts of the late-war boats (e.g., SJ-1 and improved SD radar), but the earlier 1944 campaigns that have that equipment as default load up just fine. Could it be a change in the designation of one of the AI units (minesweeper, was it?) that's causing this problem?

tater

06-18-07, 11:52 PM

Maybe. I started a 44 campaign, It's late feb, no prob so far.

tater

PeriscopeDepth

06-19-07, 01:49 AM

Hey tater,

Thanks for this mod. This kind of campaign editing to more historical standards is what really made SH3 so immersive for me. And your historical knowledge seems to be better than the average bear's. I also know (well don't know, but strongly suspect) that this kind of task is mind numbingly boring. So again, thanks for taking the campaign on! Can't wait to get back to my gaming PC and try this out.

Oh, and does this mod add any traffic to the Dutch harbor area?

PD

Galanti

06-19-07, 06:51 AM

Tater, great job! Can I apply this over RFB without any ill effects? What about just the .MIS files for the timeframe of the campaign I'm in right now?

ReallyDedPoet

06-19-07, 07:19 AM

I also know (well don't know, but strongly suspect) that this kind of task is mind numbingly boring. So again, thanks for taking the campaign on!

Yeah, I bet it is about exciting as watching paint dry, thanks again tater:up:

RDP

tater

06-19-07, 08:00 AM

Haven't add Aleutian traffic yet. This is a Q&D set, honestly, I used the existing groups' paths. Aleutians need traffic, Marshalls need traffic... and apparently I need to find out what is blowin 44 up, lol.

tater

06-19-07, 09:00 AM

LukeFF, what month exactly is your problem?

Is it always the same day?

If it's in the campaign layers, it could be ugly to spot.

Mush Martin

06-19-07, 09:31 AM

The symptoms for LukeFF sound very similar to sh3 when a ship was included
in mission/campaign that wasnt in the player roster. just a suggestion.

[edit] dumb of course that would have collapsed him in the beginning. sorry tater.

tater

06-19-07, 12:31 PM

OK. Made a quick mission (most layers are set to load for single missions as well as campaigns). Moved started date around. If the mission starts before August 1, 1944, it works. You can start the 31st of July, and go forward, it is only if the start date is > 19440801.

Says to me it is maybe a Campaign.cfg issue.

tater

tater

06-19-07, 12:50 PM

All the 44b layers start 19440801 in campaign.cfg, and all the groups actually load after that that I have checked. I need to check the coastal traffic, which I did NOT change for those years, though ships hitting a net shouldn't crash the game, just crash and burn themselves.

I will pull the 44b layers and see if it crashes, then add them back one at a time and figure which it is. I only added one entry for campaign.cfg, it was my stop and go test with coastal steamers on china coast. It isn't that.

Hmmm.

tater

06-19-07, 01:15 PM

Pulled all the 44b missions (forcing default versions). Still crashes. It isn't the traffic.

tater

06-19-07, 01:27 PM

Got it!

There was ONE subchaser in the 44b subhunters. All the other layers (default) use "generic patrol craft." I didn't change the layer, and in the mission it was SCSubchaser, Unit=0

Change the "0" to "1" and it works.

Thanks for the heads-up! I will release an update later, until then don't start any patrols after July, 1944.

PS--you were partially right, Mush. The unit was in the roster as a corvette (type=1), but one ship in one mission called for the old "type=0" version.

That reminds me, if I knew how to clone ships, I'd be inclinded to clone the subchaser and make it available as a type=1 AND a type=2 so that it would show up both with "GENERIC Corvette" and "GENERIC Patrol Craft."

tater

tater

06-19-07, 01:33 PM

BTW, regarding the "watching paint dry" It's actually not that bad. I'm working on the entire expansion of the empire (Dec 8th til Coral Sea or so) trying to make very single ship as acurate as it can get for the military stuff. THAT is hard. Took me an hour (with reading) to get the forces of CruDiv7 (et al) from Cam Ranh Bay to Malaya, for example. Makes my head hurt.

Mush Martin

06-19-07, 01:39 PM

ReallyDedPoet

06-19-07, 01:45 PM

tater

06-19-07, 01:48 PM

Hehe. I didn't know watching paint dry could be exciting, do tell ;)

<G>

tater

ReallyDedPoet

06-19-07, 01:50 PM

Hehe. I didn't know watching paint dry could be exciting, do tell ;)

<G>

tater

Or watching grass grow :88)

RDP

LukeFF

06-19-07, 03:05 PM

LukeFF

06-19-07, 04:58 PM

tater, while you're at it, can you double-check the layers for early 1942? I just had a CTD while patrolling from Midway in late January - Tambor class, enroute to Honshu from Midway, no heavy stuttering, and the game just decides to CTD on me, quite out of the blue. :damn: Thanks!

tater

06-19-07, 05:04 PM

Rgr. Will drop my test mission to late january and see if it blows up.

tater

06-19-07, 05:38 PM

This is reproducable and goes away with my mod off? One of my most used test missions lately turns out to be February 1942, never had a problem with it...

tater

06-19-07, 05:45 PM

WOW.

That is wierd. My 41a convoys layer has a mission start date of 19420301!

What is wierd is that the mission should start 19411201, and that the campaign.cfg has an end date for the 41 layers (suggested in remarks) of 1942 02 28.

Ok, so I fixed it.

I checked the stock SH4 campaign, guess what: it's wrong there, too.

If this always CTDs you someplace where you can reproduce it, this might also solve stock game CTDs if my fix prevents the CTD here...

tater

LukeFF

06-19-07, 07:05 PM

If this always CTDs you someplace where you can reproduce it, this might also solve stock game CTDs if my fix prevents the CTD here...
Will check and see that. This happened west of Midway, around January 30th. In the meantime I'll apply your fix. I'm assuming the only date that needs to be changed is in the 41a convoy later file?

tater

06-19-07, 07:11 PM

CC, I'm about to upload a fix for you.

Bando

06-19-07, 07:13 PM

Tater,

I've had 2 CTD's, both in march 42, both going south in the Balikpapan area (the strait between Celebes and Borneo). I don't know if it has anything to do with it , but in both cases I sank a few ships from a convoy, and the convoy's defences (in both cases) consisted of several DD's and 1 subchaser. The first time it happened (it was after the attack) was bad luck perhaps, but after starting a new career it happened again at nearly the same spot, same convoy (well it seemed that way).

Does it have to do with date?
Subchaser perhaps?

Regards

Bando

tater

06-19-07, 07:18 PM

version 0.66

http://mpgtext.net/subshare/258Improved%20Campaign%20Layers%20v0.66.rar (http://mpgtext.net/subshare/258Improved%20Campaign%20Layers%20v0.66.rar)

I will look into the march 42 thing.

Bando

06-19-07, 07:22 PM

Thanks:D

tater

06-19-07, 07:25 PM

It has to be March 30 or March 31, right?

Bando

06-19-07, 07:30 PM

I'm sure of the month, not about the exact date

ReallyDedPoet

06-19-07, 07:59 PM

http://mpgtext.net/subshare/359Improved%20Campaign%20Layers%20v0.63.rar

version 0.63

I will look into the march 42 thing.

Thanks for the new version :yep:

RDP

tater

06-19-07, 08:08 PM

The only convoy that goes through there leaves near surabaya the very end of March at the earliest (the 29th). Looks pretty normal, generic corvettes, and a DD possible.

I'm wondering... the convoy can include generic tankers. I did alter the speed in the cfg, and have never seen problems. This last version I changed the sim, so perhaps the cfg change wasn't enough, and after you sank some, the tanker tried to run at 19 knots, but the sim didn't let it... if that was the problem, it should be fixed now.

tater

Bando

06-19-07, 08:17 PM

Ok, thanks. D/l ed the last one, will give it a go in the morning. I reinstalled the whole game again and will start a new career. S-boat, Manilla, patrol ends on Java and than I'll go for Minanao straits (I believe that's the name.

Thanks Tater

tater

06-19-07, 08:45 PM

Anyone gone to truk or palau yet?

tater

06-19-07, 10:12 PM

The 41a convoy layer also has a mission parameter start date AFTER the objects inside it. Most of the stock layers 41a start 1940, this starts 19420301. I never changed these dates from stock!

tater

Sockeye

06-19-07, 11:08 PM

Anyone gone to truk or palau yet?

Was patrolling off of Palau a couple weeks ago, I think with version 0.61 so I can't give any up-to-date info, but I was kinda surprised by the amount of traffic there; I just laid-to near the reef south of the Kossol Passage as marus rounded Babelthuap, and in a few in-game days I had expended my fish. I actually had to pull away from the area to save.

I think this spot's just a good "fishing hole" though since ships can either round the islands there or by way of Peleliu. I had checked out the south by Peleliu, but all the action was up north near Kossol, so I headed back that way to lay-to on the western side of the passage instead of the east where I had been.

Would have been January '43.

One thing that kinda irked me at the time--which has nothing to do with your work, Tater--was that no warships were launched from Melekeok or somewhere nearby, and the merchant ships weren't re-routed to avoid the "area of death". Some type of ASW effort would have been appreciated to spice things up a bit... but the Yellow Sea's up next, so I'm hoping for as few as possible escort vessels in those waters (nightmares of the Yellow Sea since SH1).

Other than that one gripe, I'm liking what you've done so far, especially having the zig-zagging to contend with. Unfortunately for the virtual enemy, MoBo's been helping out :arrgh!:

tater

06-20-07, 12:08 AM

Excellent points. IJN ASW was frequently tasked in a "zone" system, so I thnk the chokes like Palau and Truk should have more intense patrolling.

One thing I have done lately is mod the sensors a little to make the AI see even my periscope if I'm not careful. Makes it more challenging.

tater

06-20-07, 11:26 AM

I didn't have time to do a huge amount of testing, but I got 1 CTD in that area, but the next test I didn't. The CTD was exiting map/TC to go to binos on deck.

I guess I could try eliminating that convoy and see what happens...

Bando

06-20-07, 03:08 PM

Hello Tater,

I've reinstalled the whole game yesterday and have played with a new career. I CTD-ed after having attacked the taskforce coming south on the west coast of Luzon early war. I deinstalled the impr. campaign layers and tried again, no ctd. I've reinstalled, no CTD, but then on my second patrol I ctd-ed. It's always within an hour after attacking something, when I'm on the way out, on the surface and about 20Nm away from the leftovers of the attack.

I was very sad about the first CTD, I just hit 2 kongo's, the taskforce was moving on and the Kongo's were dead in the water waiting to be finished. Looking through the scope and just about to launch, the game CTD.

Still going on with this mod, the zigzagging is worth it all on itself.

Best regards

Bando

tater

06-20-07, 03:35 PM

Sounds like what Jace11 told us about in another thread. Ships only render inside a certain radius, and outside that, they move like they do in the mission editor, as abstracted entities.

When they pass that range, they revert to the same abstract entity. He thought it was 32km---which is 19.88 statue miles. Coincidence?

I'm thinking that there might be a problem if the speed for the waypoint settings is faster than the ships can do. Somewhat baffling, actually.

Bando

06-20-07, 03:41 PM

Now that you mention that, the TF that was leaving the two kongo's behind were indeed at that distance. In mindanao straits it's the same thing.

I hope you're on to something. I don't understand this at all, but I'm gratefull you do and are willing to devote time to it

Thanks again Tater

tater

06-20-07, 03:48 PM

It might be as simple as the ships being in mid-turn when it changes, in which case the stock layers, which have so many fewer turns are safer. Might explain "random" CTDs.

Course damage wouldn't be the issue, then.

Odd.

tater

06-20-07, 05:05 PM

I kept running into convoys near the Philipines, not TFs. Has this only been TFs?

I damaged a few, then waited for them to move off. Nada.

Bando

06-20-07, 05:10 PM

Just had another ctd with the TF off Luzon.
In Midanao Straits it was 1x TF, 2X large convoy

tater

06-20-07, 05:40 PM

If you get the chance post the location so I can narrow it down (even a screen shot of the map).

tater

THE_MASK

06-20-07, 06:07 PM

Just downloaded your campaign files and i checked the first one (41a_Jap_Convoys) with the sh4mission editor and it came up with a message ERROR: random group 41a_jap_convoys_010 contains a invalid class entry MSN013!!!

Bando

06-20-07, 06:24 PM

So what does that mean?

tater

06-20-07, 06:56 PM

That's odd, since the mod installs a new cfg in the roster and sea folders for the ship.

tater

THE_MASK

06-20-07, 07:00 PM

So what does that mean? No idea , dont even know if its relevant .

tater

06-20-07, 07:19 PM

Oh, I know what is wrong.

If you change the unit type of a ship, the editor won't open it unless the mod is ON. Course editing a mod that is on does some wierd things. I have the ship changes as separate files for editing.

tater

06-21-07, 11:45 AM

I've been seeing some random CTDs, but they tend to be like all the others I have always had.

I attacked a troopship convoy, disengaged 20nm, no ctd. Later, I came across a warship contact and boom, CTD before I could see what it was.

Different time, I attacked a TF similar location.

Do the save files show the ships nearby? Like if you had a lookout spot a ship, and you make a save, then the CTD that you get happens... maybe I could see what group was doing it and suss it out.

Bando

06-21-07, 12:48 PM

Tater,

Today it happened again. I was sailing south from the Celebes sea into the strait between Borneo and Celebes (I believe it's called Mindanao strait). At or around the equator I ctd. Most of the time it happened at this spot. Strange thing is, this time there was (AFAIK) no convoy/TF within 20 Nm.
Just adding to this problem.........

Still I love playing with the zigzags, keeping the mod installed. Although I don't get further than march/ april 1942 and starting a lot of new careers I DO love this mod.

EDIT
About the save game, well, I never save the game while at sea. Used to do it, but after reloading, I developed damage (domino effect as redwine called it) to the sub and my crew was exhausted. Thus I never save at sea.

tater

06-21-07, 01:01 PM

I don't seem to have that problem with saves. I save on the surface out of TC from the map page.

Does the "domino effect" you had with saves apply to the game in progress, or only to when you load the save file? If it's the latter, making a save might well help find the problem, you needn't even load it.

Bando

06-21-07, 01:12 PM

If you mean the broken glass in the control room (shattering at the moment of reload) and the fact that when I dive I get myself killed at less than half crush depth, than yeah, I've had that ever since installing this game couple months ago. The crew is very fatigued too when reloading. If I don't shift watch manually, the ship will stop "dieseling" after a short while. I never call battlestations, so that's not what's causing this. As said; after a load from sea I'm in deep deep .........water.

On the other hand, just did a couple of starts and saves at sea, the game does not ctd when saving.

Does this help?
What else can I do to help you troubleshoot?

tater

06-21-07, 02:49 PM

I might have a line on this.

I think (hopefully someone with more of a clue than me is reading this ;-) that it might be because of my roster changes to Agano and Akizuki.

Oddly, when the devs built the stock early war stuff (Philipines, NEI, etc) they used almost exclusively Agano CLs, and Akizuki DDs. The "BurmaJawa" mission has nearly 60 Akizukis. Odd, since the second one only finished fitting out in October of 1942. WTF were they thinking? They probably built the campaign a couple days before it went to press.

So right in that time period, there are many dozens of ships around the areas we're talking about that I have as unavailable in the roster. Wonder if that is it...

Jace11

06-21-07, 04:02 PM

could easily be the rosters...

It sounds like a ship/roster problem..

if you can identify exactly which TF or convoy it was, that would help. Look at its constituent ships..

I would check entry and exit dates in rosters, some are messed up as it is. e.g check entry and exit dates for CA Furataka.

[UnitClass]
ClassName=CAFurutaka
UnitType=7
AppearanceDate=19260331
DisappearanceDate=19421011
DisplayName=JP CA Furutaka

So what happens if you have a scripted layer with a Furataka after 11th Oct 1942..

Some of these things Beery has fixed in RFB1.28, but some are really hard to spot... There is another roster problem with Textures eg, in main forum a guy posted that he ran into a big US BB that was completely black...

Cant remember which BB it was, but the problem was the ship called would not get textures till a later date due to the dates calling the colour schemes.

tater

06-21-07, 04:41 PM

Yeah. Interestingly, the problem was not with my missions, but a stock one (I think). I changed the appearance dates of Agano and Akizuki to avoid them immediately in the war when the GENERIC ships get pulled in the random layers (mostly what I have worked on). I spaced the fact that the eastasia and burma/java missions were in the pre-availability time zone. It's not an issue for the PH mission (I'm willing to bet that's full of ships that didn't exist, too) since by the time players spawn in, they are so far away they are in "mission editor" mode, and never get called to render.

I did a test mission just now where bando had had problems (I had managed a CTD testing there myself the other night after he posted), and I attacked a few convoys and a TF I knew were from the eastasia and burmajava missions, and no CTD.

I'm pretty confident this is the problem (famous last words).
I'm actually planning on replacing those layers with my own at some point. I am building a "Japanese Southern Advance" layer based on a number of sources including the IJN TROMs at combinedfleet.com. I'm planning on using the "stop and go" technique so that the ships are there from start to finish, covering one landing, then off to pick up more APs, and another landing, etc... which makes me think of a question to ask lurker...

tater

tater

06-22-07, 12:21 AM

Quick fix (v 0.66):

http://mpgtext.net/subshare/258Improved%20Campaign%20Layers%20v0.66.rar

See if that kills the CTDs.

I took the stock scripted layers and axed the Akizuki and Aganos. I did it an ugly way, I replaced the units in the text file. I did not change the names, so Agano#27 might be a Naka or something. Will make it pretty later, just wanted to see if this would kill the CTDs.

Big huge "thank you" to Bando and Jace11 <S>

tater

Bando

06-22-07, 04:10 PM

Just got in, d/l now, will report back on results tomorrow

Thanks

Bando

06-23-07, 04:44 PM

Hello Tater, Just had another CTD. I tried to document this patrol as good as possible, but nothing strange happened, so it got a bit less documented as the patrol continued, but this is what I've got, just prior to the CTD.I'm on patrol in position 00-08N 118-45E on may 08 1942 when at 0500 a Large Composite Freighter comes along. Her MLA is 040 at 10 knots. She's sailing alone. I fired three torpedoes, she goes down. I then get a radio report about a small convoy heading NE about 100 Nm south of my position at 0700. I turn the submarine south and at 0730 (aprox) the game CTD.Hope it helps

Jace11

06-23-07, 06:15 PM

Need to ID that convoy... check all ships in it and also cross-check rosters

Any new ships in it, like new escorts... maybe the minesweeper modded... er check dates.. the answer lies within...

Fearless

06-23-07, 07:03 PM

Can't download the v0.64 as when I try the link in the first post, it points to v0.6 (a May 07 file).

tater

06-23-07, 07:19 PM

Fearless, it's at the top of this page, too, like 4 posts above yours

I agree, jace. I'm betting I also need to leave no stock missions. All it takes is one subchaser set to type=0 in amission file. Some of the stuff you get tasked after a contact report might be a problem as well. That's why it's beta, I guess <G>

tater

Bando

06-24-07, 04:36 AM

Tater and Jace,

I don't know if it has something to do with it, but I read in Redwines die slowly 1.4 thread a comment from Leovampire (on page 2 listed today) that he gave a life boat an engine room with some fuelbunkers for testing purpeses. When he fired at the life boat, it blew up like a merchant, leaving burning oil on the water.

Because this was testing by Leo, and not included in the mod, it starts me thinking. I do have the DS mod installed, but (AFAIK) the lifeboats are stock within this mod.

Yet I've seen this too. I sank a Mogami cruiser and when it blew up, the blast destroyed a life boat sitting next to the sinking cruiser. For several hours the burning oil slick was visible at the surface. I am absolutely sure this came from the life boat. It amased me at the time.

Again, I don't know if it has anything to do with it, it just might help in the continuing development of the campaign layers.

Bando

tater

06-24-07, 09:18 AM

I didn't have a huge amount of time to look at them in the last couple days, but this is certainly frustrating. I played a few campaigns out of manila early war, and haven't had any CTDs yet.

I'll need to make a quick mission for may 7 I guess.

The only problem is if it is a scripted layer, since they do not load on QMs. Might be related to the coral sea given the date.

I looked at coral sea, and it doesn't have the ships I messed with in the roster though.

Jace11

06-24-07, 09:28 AM

No it wouldn't be that I don't think. if it were something wrong with the lifeboats, it may crash when you sank a ship that spawned them I guess.

Meanwhile, I have looked at Taters 1942 Jap Convoy file, I reckon it must be either convoy 131 or 132 in Makassar strait.. both have corvette entries..I wonder if its the corvette entry. I don't run the same roster files as a tater so i don't know, I had a look at them though, and can't see anything obvious thats causing the problem.

tater

06-24-07, 09:39 AM

Yeah, I need to look at them again.

I have noticed that changing stuff in the mission editor entries isn't always enough. I will check them as text files.

tater

06-24-07, 09:45 AM

The corvette entry is just Type=1.

They look fine (just checked), and I have such generic corvettes in most convoys with no problems.

tater

tater

06-24-07, 11:30 AM

OK, this is interesting. Some of my TF groups in the 42a layer had the group leader set to a unit with a less than 100% chance of occuring.

Fixed it and a CTD I seemed to always get in mid may didn't happen.

What is interesting is that I have seen some stock groups set up like this, so I assumed it was OK.

Bando

06-24-07, 03:20 PM

Tater, Jace,

I just found out that I've saved the game about 36 hrs prior to CTD.
If I load it up is there anything special you want me to monitor, or do you know enough and I'll get a new career.

Bando

tater

06-24-07, 11:31 PM

Interesting. In a random group, whatever you pick as leader always shows up.

I made a random groups with various things at various % chance. The leader was Fuso, but set to 1%. It's always there. Too bad, if it had been instant CTD it would have explained so much.

LukeFF

06-26-07, 01:50 AM

tater, here's a possible realism suggestion for you: tonight I encountered a warship task force consisting of carriers, destroyers, and cruisers. All that would normally be fine, except that a couple of the CVEs were of the Akitsu Maru type mixed in with some Taiyos. Would the IJN have allowed IJA CVEs to be mixed in with IJN ones?

Campaign date was August/September 1942, off the east coast of Japan.

Bando

06-26-07, 06:05 AM

Tater,

I keep having CTD's in Makassar straight in march/april 1942.
All my newly started careers end there with a CTD.:damn:
It's odd. I'll have to try another career and never go to Makassar straight during that period. (but I love to start from Manilla)
Off to Pearl ........

Regards

Bando

tater

06-26-07, 07:56 AM

I was getting a consistant problem there, but changed a few things and now I'm not.
[/URL]

That's the 0.65 I'm messing with now.

0.66:
[url]http://mpgtext.net/subshare/258Improved%20Campaign%20Layers%20v0.66.rar (http://mpgtext.net/subshare/773Improved%20Campaign%20Layers%20v0.65.rar)

Bando

06-26-07, 05:46 PM

D/l ing, will report back later on

Thanks a bunch

Bando

06-27-07, 04:41 AM

Makassar strait is still CTD in april 42.
Don't know why, but it does.
Funny thing is, I was peaking around with ex cam to catch some eyecandy of the Perch submerged. The F12 view is normally not attached to the sub. This time it was. The sub moved 5 knots, the cam moved along. I was wondering what was happening when the CTD came.
There was not an enemy around AFAIK.

Bando

06-27-07, 06:22 AM

Hello Tater,

I'm really really sad.

I never encountered a Yamato in about 2 or 3 months play.
This time there was one. I set up my approach and was confident about my solution. I'm in a P class, so all 4 bow tubes were released, three solid hits, each with a 2 degree spread, one veered off somewhere else. Turning like crazy to get my stern tubes into action, when the game reports it's "ready to launch the insertion team boat". WTF????:damn:
I pushed postpone and CTD.

I'm really really sad

tater

06-27-07, 08:27 AM

That's wierd.

I had been getting a CTD there myself, but I haven't, and I have a test mission for May12th I think.

OK, i might go and look at the cargoes, even. In the default game all the cargo options are turned off, perhaps they had a CTD problem and decided to not use cargos, lol. Perhaps an odd combo of ship/cargo might be a problem (can't render on deck or something).

Hmm, if Yamato was around before the battle of Midway, either I missed something, or you are coming across a layer I didn't do (I have all the BBs explicitly set to different types until after Yamato was back in port following Midway since that was the first time she was at sea for real).

tater

06-27-07, 12:10 PM

The Makassar CTD has got to be one of those 2 convoys. I have no clue why, i deleted the corvettes, etc. I just deleted both of them completely, no CTD may 13th. I might add new ones and see what happens. Actually, I might revert to the one that CTDs, and set the 2 TFs and 2 Convoys to contact report all the time. Then we'll have a better picture of who is doing it. I can set one convoy "fast" the other "slow" by having them 100% loop to a waypoint at high speed.

tedhealy

06-27-07, 12:40 PM

It would be a complete shame if the campaign layers are so cobbled together that they can't be modded without worrying about everything falling apart like removing a single card from a house of cards. I wish you luck tater, and hope a complete overhaul is not needed.

I don't really have anything significant to report from using your latest files other than I see less traffic and haven't had any CTDs :D In my limited experience with this mod, I have only run into unescorted groups of two - 2 encounters from an early 1942 patrol to near Japan starting from Pearl.

tater

06-27-07, 01:10 PM

I have noticed something odd when editing that might be responsible, I have no idea what causes it.

On more than one occasion I have clicked on an escort (usually this has been in the "subhunter" groups) to add in a radiused waypoint so they are no so predictable (the zig-zag code removes all of them first to avoid problems). A have checked, and since the subhunters are mixed between different types, plus I wanted them to actually listen, not just drive around, I set the speeds fairly low. I have hit a waypoint's properties, only to have the speed set itself faster than the unit is capable of going. I then have to manually dial it down. Dunno what is happening there. Sometimes it seemed to grab the radius value and change the speed to that.

I need to check that area, maybe the subhunter there is FUBAR.

As an aside, I was testing this when I knew a TF should be going by, and just as I was ready to shoot 4 tubes (Sargo) at a BB (long shot, spread at 3000 yards, wasn't gonne get any closer), the zigged towards me. Really fouled the shot up, went flank to set up stern tubes. Down scope. Wait to come to new heading, up scope. As I'm taking a final bearing and range to shoot (and AOB, lol), the ship blinks out of view. I waited for the water to clear the scope, and it didn't as fast as it had been. Crap, rain. LOL. I fired a spread of all 4. 1 hit, 1 dud. Never did see the BB again, he disappeared into the rain.

tater

06-27-07, 02:58 PM

I'm continuing to blog this process in the hope that it might help others messing with the layers.

I set the groups in question to 60 minute contact reports, 100% chance. I can watch them move across the map as they close on me. The 132 convoy group is the problem. I even cleaned all the ships out of it, and put new ones in. All the other convoys show up on the map as "small convoy" but 132 ALWAYS shows up as "Ship." It's gotta be corrupted some how.

In the short term I will delete that one convoy and see how it works.

That should fix the issue, it is ALWAYS that convoy that causes the CTD, even with the same ships as the other convoy in it.

tedhealy

06-27-07, 03:15 PM

edit, whoops wrong thread

Bando

06-27-07, 03:19 PM

Does this convoy have a specific date or is it in some sort of loop. Oh uuumpff, uhh, Tater, that Yamaho was not with your mod. I uninstalled the CLayer mod to see if I still would get a CTD after reloading it. That's when the Yamato showed up and the "insert boat" weirdness popped up. I'm sorry. Reinstalled the campaign layers and test again. I'm really glad you are still working with this, for I believe this to be an important mod once working as it should.

tater

06-27-07, 03:23 PM

Unrelated to the CTD:

What does Side=0 mean inside a mission file?

I checked US and Other layers, ALL have side=0, it's not their allied/axis status at all since the US should be 1, and the japs should be 2.

tater

tater

06-27-07, 03:25 PM

Yeah, I was sure the wierd commando misison had nothing to do with this. :D

Axing that one group fixes Makassar CTD. :up:

I am loathe to just do that because I want to know WHY it screws things up. I have exampined the damn thing waypoint by waypoint, it makes no sense.

tater

06-27-07, 03:38 PM

CTDs are always gonna be hard to track down because it might just be one person's machine, or even a random thing (only CTDs if a certain unit is in a group, and the chance is set to 1% or something like that). Some of us have CTDs all the time, others haven't seen any since the "A" key was fixed.

Any consistent, reproducible CTDs are useful for figuring out what might be systematically breaking stuff so we can avoid it later. A total redo of the campaigns from scratch is something I'm interested in, but if a wrong choice in one field someplace can CTD you, I wanna know about it first, lol.

tater

LukeFF

06-27-07, 06:11 PM

tater

06-27-07, 06:50 PM

Jace11

06-27-07, 06:55 PM

I wish I knew what was the matter and could help you. If you intercept your "one ship" convoy132 what happens?? CTD??

LukeFF

06-27-07, 07:08 PM

Jace11

06-27-07, 07:15 PM

well had a look at layer version 0.65

132 has a Tanker for a leader.. shouldn't be a problem

Obviously looking for something obscure here...

Maybe it has something to do with the spawn probabilities?

Your leader is set to 100%, the rest of the merchants that form the convoy are all less than 25%, so concievably , quite often this convoy could spawn with only the leader.... I think that could be bad. 1 escort is at 100% but escorts are not essential in convoys, you can have working convoys without any escorts at all, but can you have a convoy with only one merchant...??

Also, judging by the number of ships that are likely to spawn, you columns number of 4 is way too big. If three ships spawn, they spawn and sail line abreast. But do you need 4 ships to form and make the convoy stable for the formation you gave it..

I would test these two things..

Reduce column formation to 1 and make at least 1 other merchant in the convoy spawn 100% of the time. Not just that though, maybe even specifiy the types for the two 100% certain spawned ships, a Nippon and an Akita maybe.. leave the rest as generic and then run the campaign and track it etc with your modded contact reports and intercept and see what happens.

nimitstexan

06-27-07, 08:02 PM

Is this compatible with RFB?

Jace11

06-27-07, 08:15 PM

Forget my last post, duh!! Of course you can have random groups with just one ship.... thats how the merchant layers work.

tater

06-27-07, 09:21 PM

Sorry, I might have forgotten a GENERIC entry. I actually decied to make one TF a plane ferry TF on purpose, perhaps I added a CVE as air cover...

Not sure if the IJN ever gave escorts to the IJA for plane ferries though.

Speaking of carriers, how are you treating the fleet CVs? It'd be quite an immersion killer to see more than one Taiho in a career, for instance. ;)

I only have any GENERIC carrier entries after Taiho (or Hiyo, etc, which look similar, are in service). I also only have single entries for them, never 2 in a TF

tater

06-27-07, 09:35 PM

Regarding RFB. Not sure, so much is there in the Campaigns file it's tough to check.

LukeFF

06-28-07, 12:11 AM

Is this compatible with RFB?

Yes, it is.

tater

06-28-07, 12:22 AM

Version 0.66 with offending convoy removed. At least now I know exactly how to find bad groups, even if I don't have the slightest reason why they blow up.

BTW, the number of units is intentionally very variable. Since these are recurring convoys, I'd rather not see the same composition every time. I will keep an eye out and make sure that a 4 row convoy won't CTD with 2 units though, worth testing.

http://mpgtext.net/subshare/353Improved%20Campaign%20Layers%20v0.68.rar

tater

tater

06-28-07, 01:17 AM

I'm beginning to wonder if the GENERIC option is just totally FUBAR.

I'm gonna make some tests and see. I modded the apearance dates of ships like Agano in the hope that GENERIC entries would not pull from ships unavailable. If that's not the case, then when you get in range to ID a contact and the contact cannot belong, BOOM. CTD.

Bando

06-28-07, 02:01 AM

D/l ed version 66.
Will start a new career and report back

Bando

06-28-07, 01:06 PM

Started a new career, been to makassar strait in jan, febr and march, now back in base. No CTD's.:up:
So far, so good.
Tomorrow I'll go there again to check april/may.

Thanks Tater.

tater

06-28-07, 01:42 PM

Well, I ran into one west of Luzon last night, OTOH, it could be random as well. Hard to tell since all my CTDs I've ever had have related to going from map view to the outside world.

Bando

06-28-07, 03:25 PM

Oh? That's weird. I recall most CTD's when I'm looking at the map.

For the time being, I'm a happy guy. No CTD in makassar str. :yep:

EDIT
Did you use any of this, or is it included in some other mod. I vaguely remember something like that....
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=109601 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=109601)

tater

06-28-07, 03:33 PM

When I was testing, one TF came barreling up making 18 knots I think. I was set up perfectly. I even stopped the boat. Battle stations. 4 tubes ready to go. BB IDed, AOB nailed, speed nailed with a 6 minute space between observations. Final bearing and shoot after a long scope down to let escorts pass. Go to lock BB and AOB is WAY off. Crap, they are turning. Fired a spread of all 4 since there was no way I'd catch up. 2 prematures, 1 very near miss, one hit. Didn't even slow down. 4 DDs then came and worked me over since I left the scope up to watch like an idiot. Went deep and snuck away at 1 knot. The plus to the fast TFs is that the escorts usually give up after a while and dash back to the TF at high speed (with me in the baffles).

tater

tater

06-28-07, 03:34 PM

No, I only altered the stock layers. I'd have credited another modder.

<S>

tater

Bando

06-28-07, 03:50 PM

The zigzagging of the TF's and convoys are much more real to me than a TF at 10 kts. The higher speed of 18 kts in combination with the ZZ is frustrating (especially in an "S" boat) just as real life was.

It sometimes happenes the other way. I gave up the chase on a convoy, thinking I could never ever do the end around, when they zagged towards me. I just gave the order to dive to PD and slow down when they turned. It was nasty weather, the escorts never saw me and I got 2 med splits.
It was a kick.

The TF's however, speeding at 18 kts give me the heels most of the time. Juicy Kongo's and Fuso's in there, but never having a chance to fire. The MK10 only travels about 3500yds, so mostly I have a perfect setup, only to find they zig, then it's over.

I love playing this way.

BTW I've been wanting to tell you this. When I deinstalled this mod to check for CTD's in "plain" setup (that is RFB, die slowly, and a whole bunch of other mods) I got that weird info of releasing the boat, when it CTD-ed. After a reload (in base) I went out again to nail that Yamato (still in "plain"). I knew where it was going to be, so out I went. Found her, but she had company of three other BB's. Guess what, they were all Yamato's. I must say at that moment I was a bit less happy. I ultimately sank one of them, continued on my patrol and encountered 2 Taiho's. Sank 'm both and got my first 100+ score. Somehow it did not feel good.
Therefore reinstalled version 66 and been happy eversince. No strange compositions and reality improved. Most of all; No CTD's so far.

tater

06-28-07, 04:06 PM

I came across a TF hull down. I tried a flank speed end around in a fleet boat, they were still easily walking away. A DD escort spotted me on one of his lateral zigs and almost instantly opened fire. Made a hole in the water, and turned 180 degress from ~ their base hdg.

I have a few places where TFs are in the mid 20s speed wise. <G>

tater

Bando

06-28-07, 04:17 PM

Really?
I still have to meet these speedy fellows.
I'm currently involved heavily in makassar straits. Firstly for the CTD tests but secondly, well, it's a great place to hunt them down. The northern part narrows so when submerged you can hear them. This means I can hear them. My sonarcrew doesn't hear sh*t. Once a sound hunter, always a sound hunter. I've been listening to underwatersound almost my entire adult life.
Anyway, in the middle of the northern part of Mak. st. the coastlines are about 20NM eitherside, so listening for them can prove to be very lucrative.

tater

06-28-07, 04:23 PM

Try Truk or Palau.

Gotta get Tawi Tawi going late war, too... The reef is there, just need some ships now.

BTW, coming up from Freemantle might be more interesting. One of these days I might make the jap minefields "real" too. (a density higher than2-3 mines per km^2, lol)

tater

Bando

06-29-07, 07:25 AM

Mines........I hate those.........I read about a low powered high freq sonar they used in the latter stages of the war to track these mines and to navigate safely to the sea of Japan.

Bando

06-29-07, 12:41 PM

Hello Tater,

Been back to Makassar strait to test april/may 42. No CTD.
There was something strange that I'd never seen before. Some small convoys were reported (out of my "bulb" of 20 Nm) each hour. It was followed for about 24 hours, each hour I received a new update on this one (may 14th 1942 my pos 000-18N 118-55E) It consisted of 2 small and 1 medium tanker escorted by 1 DD. Two days later something simular happened. In pos 06S 117E a small convoy came by (2 large tankers, 1 freighter, 1DD) and this one could also be "followed" for an extensive periode. One could even see the ZZ pattern.

Don't know if it's stock or you, I just never noticed this before.

No CTD's. I guess you cracked it as far as Makassar straight is concerned.
Next I'll start a new career from Pearl and go after those fast TF's

Regards Bando

tater

06-29-07, 01:13 PM

Doh!

That was the other convoy that didn't make a CTD. I upped the contact reports to very hour so I could track which one was doing the CTD, lol.

I will fix it.

Bando

06-29-07, 01:17 PM

Well, I guess it worked, no CTD's

Great job

Bando

06-30-07, 07:51 AM

Tater, me being a european, and not being all that familiar with the PTO, what is a good time to start hunting at Palau. Been there in early 42 (this was the stock install with Tmaru at the time), but there was not a lot of traffic.

Last night I started just before the battle of midway and decided to ignore my mission objectives and proceed to try to intercept the jap airgroup coming from the west. I did indeed intercept a TF. It contained a Yamato and a Carrier (among other vessels obviously) doing 24 knots. I was in a fleet boat, couldn't get a shot at target. The closest I was ever going to get was about 7000 yds, but even when I was just about to try the long shot, they zagged and were out of sight within half an hour.
These guys are fast.

It was a great thing to watch, a TF doing 24 kts and than ZZ-ing.
I must admit I used the ex. cam to see this spectacle, it was awesome.

Anyway, off to do damage:up:

Bando

06-30-07, 07:56 AM

What happened to my avatar, I hate this medic thing

tater

06-30-07, 08:01 AM

Heheh. Yeah, the Main Body has a single CV, Hosho (I used Taiyo).

The Nagumo force (the Kido Butai) was farther north, and the invasion force was south.

Bando

06-30-07, 08:20 AM

It was a pain in the a$$ to find these guys. Luckily I had to stay submerged during the day due to the amount of a/c coming over.
I make it a habit to listen to the sonar myself at moments, so luckily at dusk, just before surfacing I did an audio "look aroud" and faintly heard something. Surfaced, raced at flank towards that direction for 15 minutes, subsurfaced again, heard them a lot louder this time (sonarman still heard nothing), surfaced again, computing there movements (they're going to the left/right of my heading) compensated for that and there they were. It was an awesome hunt.

I keep repeating myself, but this high speed TF, combined with ZZ is truely awesome.
When one finally gets to hit something one can truely be proud, for it is no easy task. It just feels a lot more realistic. Maybe when this is all stable and working in a finished state, it would be a contribution for the RFB mod. I do certainly not want to offend you, but with so many mods around it's easy to get confused.

Anyway, this is a great mod.

Bando

06-30-07, 03:55 PM

Tater, I'm trying to merge all mods I'm currently running. I'm using RFB as a base. I do this for my own use, to keep track of everything. I see your mod overwrites a lot of the rfb mods. With JSGME it's no problem, but if I'm merging it could be a problem, unless you based your changes also on the RFB mod. Did you?

tater

06-30-07, 03:57 PM

I only altered stock SH4 campaign files, and 3-4 ship cfgs (dates for 2, and the type for 2)

Bando

06-30-07, 05:00 PM

Oke, thanks. This is not an easy task, I'll tell you that LOL

Uber Gruber

07-01-07, 10:47 AM

@ tater

There was some talk in the RFB topic about you producing a campaign layer with Beery for RFB. Is this still in view ? If not, is there any chance you could release an RFB compatible version ?

Thanks....

tater

07-01-07, 03:30 PM

I believe Bando is already running mine on top of Beery's.

BTW, I was disheartened by my inability to figure out where a bunch of seemingly random CTDs were coming from. I have now solved the problem. I will resume work on the mod now that I know what not to do.

It was frustrating since I'd test areas and see no problem with any group, then try later and get a CTD on a group I know I'd tested. It's because I wanted group variability, so I have lots of ships in some convoys/TF, but each ship has a very low % chance of being in the group. So you could test the group 95 times and have no CTD, and the 96th time, you get 1 fewer ship than columns in the formation, and boom, CTD.

Jace11

07-01-07, 03:47 PM

Er.. Good find ;) Good job all my layers are fixed for that already else it would mean a lot of work for me..

Bando

07-01-07, 07:45 PM

Great find Tater. I haven't had a CTD since you removed that one convoy, but I'm also testing Redwine and Leovampire's Die slowly mod, with new effects added. This is something good in the making by the way. Anyway, not hearing from you in this thread made me a little worried you might have given up on yhis. I'm glad you continue, for this mod is great. About the way I install it, I made all mods I use into one "supermod" except for this one. The mod Campaign layers I install with JSGME as the last one, so it overwrights the files of RFB. It works great, so don't worry. When this is a final release I'll merge this one in as well, only to find patch 1.3, then start all over again. LOL

tater

07-01-07, 09:15 PM

Yeah, when I tested and got more random CTDs I wanted to just take a break. No sense in loads of work that frustrates people.

Now I can work and not break stuff. Woot!

tater

07-01-07, 11:11 PM

0.68

http://mpgtext.net/subshare/353Improved%20Campaign%20Layers%20v0.68.rar

Mystery (was to me, anyway) CTDs fixed through the 42b layers (goes to summer 1943).

tater

ReallyDedPoet

07-02-07, 07:12 AM

tater,d\l the latest version now, thanks:up:

One question, have you ever had any problems with TC really slowing down with this mod. I had an older version of this installed, tried it out last night and experienced the time-compression thing.

I am far away from land, other units for it not to be that. I am going to try this new version out and will get back to you.

Thanks again :yep:

RDP

tater

07-02-07, 07:46 AM

Maybe it's the 10,000,000 waypoints required to make zig-zags :D

ReallyDedPoet

07-02-07, 08:32 AM

Maybe it's the 10,000,000 waypoints required to make zig-zags :D

Good one:up:

RDP

kikn79

07-02-07, 09:44 AM

@Tater,

I'm playing with the .66 version currently on top of RFB. I gotta say, that I'm loving it. Trying to get into position to attack is really a challenge and it is great!!

I just encountered the Battle of Midway attack force and what a huge difference it is from stock. The ships are spread out so far that I really only got a chance to attack one carrier. No more shooting out of the bow and stern tubes to take out two columns at once. Great Job!!!!!

You Are The MAN!!!!

Chuck

tater

07-02-07, 09:57 AM

Yeah, the exact formation of the Kido Butai at Midway is well known, the the standard spacing for IJN CVs was 7,000m.

Bando

07-02-07, 04:46 PM

Did three patrols with the 0.68 mission layers. No CTD. Tater, you cracked it.

ReallyDedPoet

07-02-07, 05:13 PM

Going to install this a little later, play some :yep:

Hopefully my little TC problem was a one time thing.

RDP

tater

07-02-07, 05:18 PM

I get some TC choppiness sometimes, and I have a brand new rig. I assume it's when I'm on the fringes of render range for some targets. Next time you experience that, hit delete and drop to 0, then up to 1 and listen on the hydrophone...

tater

THE_MASK

07-02-07, 05:29 PM

Installed the latest .68 on top of RFB with JSGME and its working a treat .

Bando

07-02-07, 05:32 PM

By that "choppiness" as you called it, I can determine if the ships entering my "bubble" are warships (TF) or a convoy. If it comes to a stop (the TC I mean) for a second and the clock is moving real slow and stopping now and then, I know there's a TF in my bubble. Otoh if it just slows down and stutters a little bit, I know there's a convoy, or single ship entering my bubble. And yes, diving for PD, engines stopped and listening to the sonar gives you the bearing, knowing they just entered your bubble gives you a rough range. Sometimes I surface, race full speed on the last sonarbearing for about 20 minutes, go to PD again, only to find out they did a ZZ on me................Life can be unfair at times

tater

07-02-07, 05:32 PM

ReallyDedPoet

07-02-07, 05:49 PM

tater

07-02-07, 05:52 PM

Start early war. Not after '42.

tater

vatek

07-03-07, 09:45 AM

Tater, have you changed the skill levels on escort vessels at all?

I'm giving the mod a try today after work, but I was just curious as to whether you'd modified the skill levels so they're not all 0 or 1. It'd be nice to run into a DD that can actually kill me with anything other than luck.

tater

07-03-07, 10:32 AM

Yeah, all the skills are changed. There is not a single IJN DD that isn't at least "competant."

I upped the skill levels on some of the merchants as well. Battle Surface might be interesting if the lightly armed merchant you fight turns out to be "elite."

kikn79

07-03-07, 11:10 AM

The early war is OK right now, but it gets sloppier as the war prograsses. Now that the CTDs are nailed down (the cause anyway, I need to hunt any you find down and kill them) I can work on dolling it up a bit and fixing the later war stuff.

tater

Tater,
I had a CTD last night running RFB and your .68 mod. I did have some other mods enabled, so I will confirm tonight if it is a problem. The PC event log said a problem with shsound.dll and I did have a sound mod on top of RFB and yours, so I doubt it was related to your mod. It was July '42 and I had fired 3 fish at a medium freighter. Had one torp premie and one hit. The moment the other torp was about to hit is when I had the CTD.

I'll post back tomorrow what I find but I'm still loving this mod. So much better than the equivalent of fish jumping in your boat....

Chuck

tater

07-03-07, 11:41 AM

I'm cruising along on .69 with more cvhanges and improvements fort he 42a and 42b layers. Adding traffic from Truk to Kwajalein, etc. I'm also doing some more "stop and go" stuff at ports along the coasts.

At some point I need to figure out how/where to set the patrol objectives, then it'll start lookign REALLY different as I set asiatic boats to crappy port-watching objectives, and more than 50% of the PH boats to Truk in '42. I also want to dump all the spy to Japan missions, and also idiotic harbor photography missions.

tater

BooBooLovesAll

07-03-07, 11:54 AM

This might have been answered already....

I have been using the "Flavored to Taste" mod currently. I like the fact that I can start over the international date line (as when I cross it from pearl my 'torpedo attack map' goes funked up).

Is there anyway your mod can have the same ability? Or do none of your files have to deal with that? (so I can just use the other mod's files then..)

Thanks.

tater

07-03-07, 12:06 PM

I have no idea what FTT/TM alters. Right now mine only adjusts the mission files, I image they should work fine together.

vatek

07-03-07, 02:14 PM

Your mod does conflict with TM. If you take out the mission files in TM and replace them with yours, it works perfectly though.

Edit: Oh god, I have become Popeye.

tater

07-03-07, 02:15 PM

^^^ I eas trying to get the reference, then I noticed the avatar. LOL

Bando

07-03-07, 02:25 PM

Oh god, I have become Popeye.
Stand by to be amased, lots of strange avatars are in the making for you LOL

tater

07-04-07, 06:09 PM

0.69

http://mpgtext.net/subshare/285Improved%20Campaign%20Layers%20v0.69.rar

Kind of a minor update, though there is now some more traffic in the Marshalls.

ReallyDedPoet

07-04-07, 07:40 PM

the train keeps on going eh tater, thanks for the new version:up:

RDP

tater

07-05-07, 12:32 AM

If you go anywhere near truk, palau, or the marshalls... turn your volume down. I got that sub net noise again. Wow.

tater

07-05-07, 12:39 AM

There are 2 sub net wav files, I could delete them, but you'd not hear a collision.

Wonder where the call is for them to make that sound with each other is....

Bando

07-05-07, 04:24 AM

I thought you got rid of it.

I still haven't been to Palau or Truk. I'll go there as soon as an opportunity arrises.

Tater, with version 69 can I pass 1942 or should I remain early war?

Reg

Bando

tater

07-05-07, 08:14 AM

No, I just decided to live with it. I hadn't heard it as long as I started the mission out of range of the nets, though. I've tested before, and went to truk. Last night I went to Kwajalein, came out of TC, and SCREEECH. Hadn't happened before unless I started a test mission inside render range of the nets (20 miles I assume).

Wierd.

WIP:

I started pulling in the US layers cause I keep seeing TFs and merchants in odd places. Like lone merchants (US) in the Marshalls in 1942. The allied layers are amazingly kooky. Midway has direct merchant shipments from the west coast, heck, the west coast of Australia, lol. I deleted the merchants to Wake and Midway almost entirely. Many of the others got axed as well. The traffic needs to be more 1-way with ships fleeing the japanese advance.

Bando

07-07-07, 12:05 AM

In the Manilla area it's also obvious. There like waiting to be slaughtered by the japs. I observed some to be lucky and still being able to sail in and out of manilla bay in the march / april period 1942. Stupid thing is, I make all the trouble getting a perfect set up to the target, and experience has tought me to wait 'till you see their flag. One would not expect an ally out there.

tater

07-07-07, 12:54 AM

New working version is very much scrubbed of allied random shipping in jap waters.

Bando

07-07-07, 02:14 AM

Roger that, will wait for that one I guess.

Bando

07-12-07, 12:51 AM

Tater,

I don't know if 1.3 touches the layers
Is this still needed in 1.3
If so, will you continue with this?

Reg
Bando

LukeFF

07-12-07, 03:16 AM

Tater,

I don't know if 1.3 touches the layers
Is this still needed in 1.3
If so, will you continue with this?

1.3 adds battleship wrecks to Pearl Harbor, but beyond that I don't know what other changes have been made.

Bando

07-12-07, 04:37 AM

oh, oke.
I really hope tater's continuing this........

tater

07-12-07, 08:45 AM

There are changes to a number of campaign files according to the changed files posted, but we are unsure (see the thread) about what files were changed prior to 1.3 since it claims (someplace) to be a comprehensive patch (1.0 -> 1.3)

The PH stuff I'll need to paste in since I alter the campaign_LOC file. No big deal :)

All the AI skills will probably need to be altered. My version has VET as pretty much the standard IJN AI setting, with more Elites than Competants. Might need AI=2 to be more standard, with a fair number of AI=3, and few 4s.

Automated campaign editor makes such a change trivial, I can do the entire campaign folder with 1 click once I figure out the code.

tater

Bando

07-12-07, 10:46 AM

Oke, that has gotten me reassured :up: :up:

Thanks Tater :up: :up:

:rock: :rock:
Bando:oops:

tater

07-12-07, 10:47 AM

I'm on this like a bad suit.

tater

tater

07-12-07, 11:47 PM

I have a handle on the CTD. I can fix it, but it's a PITA if I want ammo as cargo on some ships (which I do). Every "generic" merchie with ammo in my entire campaign (assuming some % chance to occur) needs 8 specific merchants with ammo set up with a spawn % totaled among them that is around the expectation value of the initial choice. problem is that there is al;ways a chance such a convoy would then have 8 ammo ships (even if each is a 3-5% chance or something).

Alternately, I can add a specific ship that might appear with ammo as cargo in a given convoy. That's easier, but I still have to do it.

In the mean time, you can play my campaign, the only thing missing would be the new US ships, and the fancy PH wrecks. I'm getting ready to copy those in though. Just be aware that any Small Modern Composite Merchant you attack might CTD you (Taihosan Maru type). The chances are pretty slim you'd happed to get an AMMO one, however. Besides, it's the smallest merchant, you aren't likely to waste a fish on it. :D

tater

LukeFF

07-13-07, 01:31 AM

Good to hear that!

By the way, it'll be nice when you get to 1943. I'm playing at the time when, according to the briefing video, the Japanese have stopped trying to send supplies down to the Solomon Islands. So, what do I find while traveling up the Slot? Yep, two separate pairs of oil tankers, less than a couple of hours apart, both on a SSE heading. :nope:

dean_acheson

07-13-07, 09:40 AM

tater, thanks for your work on this.

tater

07-13-07, 09:44 AM

I was sure I axed those. Hmmm.

They stopped sending stuff to Guadalcanal the end of '42, though they were on Bouganville for months after that. SH4 lacks the barge traffic, luggers, and sea trucks you'd really see there.

tater

tater

07-13-07, 10:18 AM

I just checked, I deleted all of them long ago. I have no merchants in the slot at all, for the entire war after 1941. Dunno what you are seeing, I looked at the scripted stuff I haven't changed, but they are TFs, not the tankers. I know the tankers are there in the default layers though. They travel to the imaginary ginormous port of Honaria, lol.

Any specifics you could give me would be helpful, there is always the chance I had something wierd happen.

tater

dean_acheson

07-13-07, 10:29 AM

well, now, up until Japan pulled out of Gudacanal they used alot of DDs as transports to bring in men and supplies.

tater

07-13-07, 10:48 AM

The Slot needs work, but I'd script the Tokyo express, or make a special layer for it.

DDs as APDs is a very different kettle of fish from merchants steaming down at 10 knots. The Cactus express would steam at speeds to minimize their exposure to air attack. So they'd dash in at very high speed, dump cargo (literally dump off the deck into the sea to be fished out by the guys on land) in many cases, then get out of dodge trying to be out of ari range by dawn.

If you do the math, that means they'd be close to 30 knots or so inside ~200nm of guadalcanal—assume they need to cover 400nm (200 each way) in 12 hours. That's 33 knots, no zig-zagging, either.

So yeah, there should be traffic, but not tankers (at all), and not calmly steaming down the Slot alone. The November 11th group was the last of the merchants to ever go down there, and they were heavily escorted (and they were brutalized). Buin, Munda, etc all need work as well. My plan is for "stop and go" traffic in the slot and along the NG coast. Small ships ducking into coves and spending the day, then steaming at night. I have an idea how to do this (since the day/night cycle is critical to this), too.

So yeah, I know the Slot needs work, but to do it right will take some time.

tater

LukeFF

07-13-07, 04:23 PM

tater

07-13-07, 06:00 PM

I will try and get the new PH tucked in. The ammo taihosan thing... I think it's always been there, it's just rare since you have to get a convoy with a ship with ammo, and that ship has to be taihosan maru, and you have to look at all the targets and decide to attack the smallest, lol.

The new AI makes this very challenging. Not because of the escorts, I have already been using smarter escorts myself. Because of the general AI.

dean_acheson

07-15-07, 12:37 PM

with the new layers are the ships still there in Pearl?

tater

07-15-07, 01:06 PM

I'm adding them. Will update for 1.3 soon. I stopped, frankly, pending a fix of the small merchant issue since the alternative was to alter everything I've already done.

Will get back into it a little perhaps tonight.

tater

LukeFF

07-15-07, 01:38 PM

tater

07-15-07, 01:58 PM

Tater, could you do a little bit of modifying to the Australian bases? I've noticed that there are more Kent Class CAs in port at any one time than would have been in the PTO (Australia had only two of them, and the British ones served more time in the Atlantic). Replacing one or two them with Tribal Class DDs would lend a more authentic look to these ports, IMO.

Sure!

THAT is the kind of stuff that helps make this nicer. Data is good.

I have to mess with port traffic anyway I think. Gotta look at PH... that might be a nightmare. Might have to start over with campaign_loc and harbor traffic and use the 1.3 version as baseline and edit stuff in the text file instead.

tater

07-16-07, 04:28 PM

0.70 with 1.3 PH uploaded.
http://mpgtext.net/subshare/986Improved%20Campaign%20Layers%20v0.70.rar

It include's a version of Beery's career start, so you'll get all the dates he uses, etc. I figured since RFB was not around I'd include it with this since I use it to test anyway.

<S> Beery

Play with this mod, and indeed play in SH4 period would be impossible without the work of Jace11 to solve the Taihosan Maru CTD.

<<S>> Jace11

tater

Bando

07-16-07, 05:15 PM

Thanks a LOT Tater.

Great stuff:up: :up: :up:

tater

07-16-07, 05:31 PM

It's in the 1st page readme, but I also messed with patrols a little. I dumped every single spy mission that seemed absurd, and a few that seemed absurd after some thought. China, sure, I can see that. Japan? No. Not ever.

There's a small amount of traffic in the Marshalls and Gilberts now. Reefs, too, watch your TC, those shallow areas in the middle of noplace might kill you.

Turn the volume down in case you get the sub net roar, lol.

tater

LukeFF

07-16-07, 09:23 PM

Tater, you need to check the campaign start dates for 1943. When I clicked on two of them (June and the one after it), the game kicked me out to the desktop.

tater

07-16-07, 09:39 PM

doh!
I hadn't tested since 1.3 had the taihosan issue.

uninstall the mod, go into the folder, and axe the UPC folder inside data (whatever it's called---not campaings, not roster, not sea).

that will use the default. otherwise stick to 42, 43 is weak anyway

tater

tater

07-17-07, 11:43 AM

Fixed that CTD issue.

http://mpgtext.net/subshare/336Improved%20Campaign%20Layers%20v0.71.rar

Luke, I looked at the harbor traffic, and I don't see any aussie CAs at all. I'll keep looking.

tater

sqk7744

07-17-07, 02:41 PM

BRAVO!!! nice work :know:

LukeFF

07-17-07, 04:57 PM

Luke, I looked at the harbor traffic, and I don't see any aussie CAs at all. I'll keep looking.

tater

They're probably listed as British CAs, instead of the more relevant Australian ones.

tater

07-17-07, 05:03 PM

What ports? Seriously, I saw USN CLs and CAs, but nothing else.

LukeFF

07-17-07, 05:11 PM

What ports? Seriously, I saw USN CLs and CAs, but nothing else.

Brisbane for sure, and possibly Fremantle.

tater

07-17-07, 05:15 PM

Hmm, I only touched the US harbor traffic mission (which has australian ships for sure), wonder if there others...

tater