[REL] New SHIV Scene for 16k & 8k Atmosphere versions.

[Reece]

Hi, I thought I'd start a new thread for those who were looking for 16k Atmosphere versions & thought it was a no go! Well thanks to Hitman for pointing me in the right direction & Der Teddy Bars alteration to the tweak txt file so as to change the scene.dat file to the 16k version (still Beta)!:yep: For pictures and more info see:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=116226

For General 16k users this should suit any supermod:
http://www6.rapidupload.com/d.php?file=dl&filepath=37200 (http://www6.rapidupload.com/d.php?file=dl&filepath=37200)

For all 8k atmosphere users suitable for stock or any supermod:
http://files.filefront.com/New_SH4_Scene_for_SH3_8k_1rar/;7713451;;/fileinfo.html
Cheers,:D
Reece.

[Castout]

Can i use the 16k atmosphere for the stock version 1.4b? Will this be okay with the spotting crew on watch? Will ships be identified from 16k? Or do i have to make some changes....Thx

[Reece]

This is only the scene files not sensors, you will have to install a 16 atmosphere version then apply this, and yes it's ok for stock, I am not totally sure what is involved with the 16k atmosphere mod as I only use an 8k version myself.:yep: Ships can be seen at a greater distance but not sure if the crew can, there are a number of sensor mods available, the last by Rubini.:) Can anyone elaborate on this?

[A6Intruder]

Hi Reece,
it woks fine even without the fix!!:rock:
But i miss the moon Reflection.
Kind regards from Germany

[mikaelanderlund]

I love it! Great improvment:up: :up: :up: . Using 16km version and GWX whitout problems.

Mikael

[Castout]

T... as I only use an 8k version myself.:yep: Ships can be seen at a greater distance but not sure if the crew can, there are a number of sensor mods available, the last by Rubini.:) Can anyone elaborate on this?

I thought i was alone:).

[dcb]

Absolutely outstanding and brilliant mod. Thanks a lot, Reece.

[Reece]

A6Intruder said:
But i miss the moon Reflection.
You do manage to find things quick, I should have you do my beta tests for me!:yep:
To be honest I thought that was fixed with the SHIV version, I haven't actually come accross a scene with the moon yet!:yep: Will look closer, can anyone else varify this?:-?
Thanks.

[A6Intruder]

A6Intruder said:
But i miss the moon Reflection.
You do manage to find things quick, I should have you do my beta tests for me!:yep:
To be honest I thought that was fixed with the SHIV version, I haven't actually come accross a scene with the moon yet!:yep: Will look closer, can anyone else varify this?:-?
Thanks.

Great work mate!! Stay tuned.
Kind regards:up:

EDIT: THERE IS MOONREFLECTION!!!!!!!!

[_Seth_]

Hmm...installed it with jsgme, and now i have rain comin' from the blue sky..... im missing the clouds and the fog... using gwx 1.03... Do i have to disable the GWX 16K mod before enabling this (or do these two work together)...? :damn:

Edit: Stupid me! I installed this OVER the gwx 16km mod....of course it became a conflict!! Now it works like a dream!! Beautiful!!

[Woof1701]

Great Reece! Thanks :up:

[CaptainNemo12]

Thanks Reece!

One question, is the sea reflection from the "GWX sea less reflect" mod?

EDIT: Also, I've noticed something peculiar: as the sun sets with its halo just barely visible over the horizon, the sun's full reflection is still visible in the ocean below....

[rik007]

Hi Reece. I have been playing now for the whole evening and the result is great! Some small improvements are: the area for which reflection applies on the sea doesnot fit to the actual horizon making distant ship appear as dancing above the sea. I noticed also that night sky objects (stars and moon) do not appear and of course the sun set reflection which stays after the sun is down.

[CapZap1970]

Just downladed it, Reece.
Thanks man, great job!!! :up: :up: :up:
CapZap

[Reece]

Rik007 Said:
the area for which reflection applies on the sea doesnot fit to the actual horizon making distant ship appear as dancing above the sea. I noticed also that night sky objects (stars and moon) do not appear and of course the sun set reflection which stays after the sun is down.
What version 8 or 16k? I have had someone say that the moon has no reflection & I have seen stars in both versions so I'm not sure what is wrong there, mine also does not show the sun reflection after sunset, please note that if your using the Academy navigation mission (haven't tried the others) to test, the sky etc doesn't seem to be correct, even in stock, the nights don't get dark & haven't seen the moon there either!:-?

[Lagger123987]

Can I use this mod in SH4 too?

[azn_132]

Can I use this mod in SH4 too?

Its already in SH4.

[Mueller72]

Thanx very much for the work done here. Its a nice effect and a huge change (a little too strong for my taste though).

Things i noticed:
- I'm using GWX 16k version and had the problem that my men were reporting visible contacts but i could not see anything till we came nearer.

- I also have noticed some glimmering near the masts of a freighter but thats perhaps a No-FSAA issue just for me?

- And i had too sometimes unnatural looking height of the other ships (lying too deep in or dancing on the water, seems related to the distance)

Best Regards,
Mueller72

[MLF]

Overall I think this is excellent, Reece and thank you. The only thing I'm not too sure about is the F4 view. The conning tower, guns and people seem to be rather wishy washy - the appearance looks more like they are painted and less 3d. Does the mod change Gamma settings, or something like that? Am using the 16K version.

MLF

[Paajtor]

Hmm...installed it with jsgme, and now i have rain comin' from the blue sky..... im missing the clouds and the fog... using gwx 1.03... Do i have to disable the GWX 16K mod before enabling this (or do these two work together)...? :damn:

Edit: Stupid me! I installed this OVER the gwx 16km mod....of course it became a conflict!! Now it works like a dream!! Beautiful!! Hmmm...disabling the GWX16k-atmosphere shouldn't be nescessary.
When installing this SH4-scene with JSGME, it gives a message, that certain files have already been changed by GWX16k-atmosphere, but you overwrite those changes with the new mod.

At least, that's what I think.
The mods readme doesn't mention you need to disable anything.

What you describe, Seth, looks like a bad game-save you had loaded.

[Reece]

@ MLF, nothing I have done should effect the crew in any way, only the sky, clouds, sun, moon & water reflections/opacy, I have supplied env colors to the GWX version as the 16k version displays a black sky!
@ Mueller72, I have been testing with 8k & don't use the 16k version, I haven't come across any of the problems but the glimmering on the masts I've had before, I'm not sure how I fixed that, it was either the hires mod causing this or no AA settings, not sure, will do more testing but family get together this long weekend so may be a while before I can get to it, it is a beta version & the 16k I haven't even tested, just worked on theory with fingers crossed!:yep:
Can someone let me know all the associated files required for the GWX 16k environment please, saves looking it up!;)

[MLF]

@ MLF, nothing I have done should effect the crew in any way, only the sky, clouds, sun, moon & water reflections/opacy, I have supplied env colors to the GWX version as the 16k version displays a black sky!


It must be something I've done - I've been mucking about with SH4 to SH3 files - must have left something behind. :roll:

MLF

[rik007]

Rik007 Said:
the area for which reflection applies on the sea doesnot fit to the actual horizon making distant ship appear as dancing above the sea. I noticed also that night sky objects (stars and moon) do not appear and of course the sun set reflection which stays after the sun is down.
What version 8 or 16k? I have had someone say that the moon has no reflection & I have seen stars in both versions so I'm not sure what is wrong there, mine also does not show the sun reflection after sunset, please note that if your using the Academy navigation mission (haven't tried the others) to test, the sky etc doesn't seem to be correct, even in stock, the nights don't get dark & haven't seen the moon there either!:-?

Hi Reece,

It took me some time as the gameplay goy a little addictive :D. I play the GWX 16 km atmosfeer mod combined with your mod. In the original GWX the watersurface smoothes out in the distance:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y77/rik007/GWXfloatingshipsextra-1.jpg

While this becomes a sharp line in the new mod:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y77/rik007/floatingships.jpg

Giving the illusion of floating ships.

Rik

[rik007]

Reece,

I forgat to insert a sunset picture:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y77/rik007/Sunsetunderwater.jpg

When the sun finally gets under the horizon the reflective sun will disappear suddenly. I'm using a GF 8800 (Nvidia) + XP maybe you are a Ati user??

Regards.

[Paajtor]

What are your AnisotropicFiltering settings (in your video-drivers)?

[jaxa]

Good work, but it's too candy for me. It's good for Pacific but not for Atlantic in my opinion. I prefer SH3/GWX scene.

[Adriatico]

In fact, these are the best "close distance" reflections so far, but on distant view - it is simply too reflective...

1) Question is:
Is it possible, within SH3 engine, to set up the reflection to fade away with distance increase ?
This seems to be the way to photo reality...


2) Reece, what are the medium wave settings (values) between your last month's scene.dat file for 8km (so called less reflective one...) and this new 8km one ?

I don't wont to be pain in a neck, just to try some mid tweaking for myself... and others...

Thanks Reece

[mikaelanderlund]

Good work:up: but in reality the water in Atlantic is much darker and I have never seen any reflection in the Atlantic or Nordsea, the mod is simply too reflective in calm wether. However, I think the water looks very good in stormy wether. Keep up the good work:up: .

Mikael

[Reece]

@ adriatico, the reflective settings are exactly the same as in the SHIII version, one thing that has been brought to my attention is that SH3 Commander settings may be causing some problems with the SHIV version, if this is so there is nothing I can do about that except to say don't use this feature in SH3 Commander.:-?

For those who wish to play around with the settings you will need minitweaker and this updated scene.dat txt file:
http://www6.rapidupload.com/d.php?file=dl&filepath=37127 (http://www6.rapidupload.com/d.php?file=dl&filepath=37127)
The settings to tweak are as follows, stock shown.
General Environments Data:
ReflBias = (SH3 = 0 SH4 = 1)
ReflDeformation = (SH3 = 0.7 SH4 = 0.35)
Wave State 1:
Amplitude = (SH3 = 0.8 SH4 = 0.035)
FresnelCoef = (SH3 = 5 SH4 = 6)
Wave State 2:
Amplitude = (SH3 = 0.26 SH4 = 0.035)
FresnelCoef = (SH3 = 5 SH4 = 6)
Wave State 3:
Amplitude = (SH3 = 0.22 SH4 = 0.04)
FresnelCoef = (SH3 = 5 SH4 = 4)
Wave State 4:
Amplitude = (SH3 = 0.15 SH4 = 0.09)
FresnelCoef = (SH3 = 6 SH4 = 3)
Horizon:
ZMax = (for 8k = 1000 for 16k = 2000)
The setting that causes a black sky is:
General Environments Data:
LightColor = (any change from this up or down causes the problem)

@ Rik007, try playing around with the ZMax settings, may also want to change:
General Environments Data:
EarthRadius = 800000

Before modding backup your files & please note that a file "Copy of Scene.dat" will be created in the data folder after modding, this file must be removed or deleted otherwise SHIII will use this over the newly edited file!:yep:
Please post your findings for others to compare & share.
Cheers.

[cunnutazzo]

16km works good with WAC. :up:

[Adriatico]

Thanks Reece:lol:

It seems that ReflDeformation is the best part in this new sceen.
On a calm sea (naval academy) it loks more natural...

What is ReflDeformation = ... in this last file ?
What was in last month's one ? (less reflective one...)


( Just noticed... that with new LCD monitor with high contrast - scene.dat looks much more reflective - than with old type of monitor... my previous favorite "scene" suddenly appeared like melted silver ...as I installed new Samsung LCD )

[Reece]

@ Adriatico, I really don't want to go through all the settings again to check, have done so many I'm not sure, just load the various scene.dat files & use the appropriate minitweaker txt file. The main thing is to note that "ReflDeformation" is exactly what it says, "reflective deformation" .:yep:

[Adriatico]

Its ok...
On a calm sea - less reflection looks better...
On medium and large waves - more reflection looks great...

(used NavalAcademy missions / Giblartar single mission )

It seems that Refl=0.5 and ReflDeform=0.55 offers some "common ground".
Compromaise with sacrified beauty in both weather conditions...

I wish I could understand WaveState & FresnelCoef better...
The main problem in my search are "juggy" edges on reflection - on darker side of boat, against sun...in a calm conditions.

I wish I could soften them without pure ReflDeform increasing... I really miss that pure reflection in all the other weather conditions!

[Reece]

The wave states are from calm (1) to stormy seas!:yep: If that is what you meant!

[Adriatico]

So it means that WaveState 1 would contain the values to experiment - if I have a problematic visuals on calm sea... right?

(WS 2, WS 3, WS 4 should be for other conditions...)

What would be the FresnelCoef ? Is it frequency of waves...?

[Adriatico]

Ok, I found it...;

Depending on angle that sunlight enters the surface, it is divided in two light beams
1- one part is reflection of the surface
2- the other is deformed light entering the water (absorbed under surface... )

According to clock time (sun input angle) and roughnes (Waves) the ratio of division is changing (resulting angle splits light = reflected% + below surface% )

So remains question: if SH3 FresnelCoef actually :hmm: increases or decreases (softens) reflection intensity ?

Or it simply doesn't work at all, in old SH3... any experiences ?

[GT182]

Another Sweet mod Reese...thanks mate. :up: ~S!~

[rulle34]

Great work Reece:up: Many thank´s

[Reece]

Hi, after quite a few more tests I have found that the added command-line in scene.dat (Horizon), added by Der Teddy Bar may well work in SHIV but not in SHIII.
What happens is if this number (default for 8k = 1000) is increased is that the size of the grid seems to get smaller, in the game with NumLock on using numbers pad press the 7 key to view from a higher altitude and look around, you will notice the square grid with blured edges on the horizon, now if you lower the number the sky goes black!:damn:
Placing setting back to 1000 for 8k then going to the old method of changing earthsize and in particular the three SkyObject Radius items - sun, moon & stars to a higher value you end up with these objects disappearing!:damn:
The closest I can get to a 16k version without upsetting things can be downloaded for anyone to test here:
http://www6.rapidupload.com/d.php?file=dl&filepath=37200 (http://www6.rapidupload.com/d.php?file=dl&filepath=37200)
If anyone can offer help, those using the 16k version would certainly appreciate it!:yep:
Thanks for your patience.:)

[dcb]

What happens is if this number (default for 8k = 1000) is increased is that the size of the grid seems to get smaller
Placing setting back to 1000 for 8k then going to the old method of changing earthsize and in particular the three SkyObject Radius items - sun, moon & stars to a higher value you end up with these objects disappearing!:damn:


Hi Reece
That's also what I noticed when using your 16k scene.dat mod. I got a small square - equivalent to lowering x and y down to ~1 (from original 5) in a normal scene.dat file. Also there is no moon, as you noticed. Sun & stars are still there.
My suggestion is if you could identify the variable that controls the frequency of waves (no. of waves per game grid), 'cause I was unable to find it. If this can be found, then you will be able to set the grid size to a higher value while also increasing the no. of waves, so that the water doesn't look too flat.
I've tried something along this path, but to no avail so far.

[Reece]

Hi dcb, this is done with X - Y - Z in the 4 wave states, X & Y is the sea/wave area & Z is the sea height (educated quess here), if you feel like fiddling here I would appreciate it , I have enough to do at the moment & since I have always used the 8k version I'm not even sure what I'm looking for, another area to test would be Scale & BumpScaleScale in General Environment Data.:D

[rik007]

@ adriatico, the reflective settings are exactly the same as in the SHIII version, one thing that has been brought to my attention is that SH3 Commander settings may be causing some problems with the SHIV version, if this is so there is nothing I can do about that except to say don't use this feature in SH3 Commander.:-?

For those who wish to play around with the settings you will need minitweaker and this updated scene.dat txt file:
http://www6.rapidupload.com/d.php?file=dl&filepath=37127 (http://www6.rapidupload.com/d.php?file=dl&filepath=37127)
The settings to tweak are as follows, stock shown.
General Environments Data:
ReflBias = (SH3 = 0 SH4 = 1)
ReflDeformation = (SH3 = 0.7 SH4 = 0.35)
Wave State 1:
Amplitude = (SH3 = 0.8 SH4 = 0.035)
FresnelCoef = (SH3 = 5 SH4 = 6)
Wave State 2:
Amplitude = (SH3 = 0.26 SH4 = 0.035)
FresnelCoef = (SH3 = 5 SH4 = 6)
Wave State 3:
Amplitude = (SH3 = 0.22 SH4 = 0.04)
FresnelCoef = (SH3 = 5 SH4 = 4)
Wave State 4:
Amplitude = (SH3 = 0.15 SH4 = 0.09)
FresnelCoef = (SH3 = 6 SH4 = 3)
Horizon:
ZMax = (for 8k = 1000 for 16k = 2000)
The setting that causes a black sky is:
General Environments Data:
LightColor = (any change from this up or down causes the problem)

@ Rik007, try playing around with the ZMax settings, may also want to change:
General Environments Data:
EarthRadius = 800000

Before modding backup your files & please note that a file "Copy of Scene.dat" will be created in the data folder after modding, this file must be removed or deleted otherwise SHIII will use this over the newly edited file!:yep:
Please post your findings for others to compare & share.
Cheers.

Hi Reece,

I did experiment with different values for ZMax as well as EarthRadius but not to much changed and certainly not improved. Mainly when using the free camera from a higher viewpoint the floating ships is most notable. I think we cannot have them all! do we ?

Rik

[Reece]

As you can gather Rik, in my latest thread:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=116790
I've given up for now on trying to do a 16k version, too many problems!:-?