PDA

View Full Version : [TEC] Carrier air groups, etc


tater
06-01-07, 04:47 PM
I have been playing around with a mod to the japanese CV groups. I could just as well do the same for the US ones, but honestly, I've yet to even see one, so it's not in the front of my mind.

The problem with CV operations in SH4 is that there are no real "operations." Instead, the plane list seems to be divided over the area the planes cover (their maximum radius) to get the probability of planes flying over.

The airstrike probability in Cfg/Airstrike.cfg doesn't seem to change the chances of a plane overhead, I think it changes the chances of an attack if a plane IS overhead.

Anyway, I made a mod that changes the airgroups to 2 alternating groups. The first is a group with nothing but a few CAP planes. Right now I have it set to 6 Zeros. You see them, but I have yet to be strafed. I'm going to test a "blank" loadout and see if there is a difference between the default "Basic" load, and an equally unbombed blank. Perhaps basic won't ever attack. If Zeros never strafe, I will add 1-2 Vals to the CAP.

The second type of airgroup is the normal, full planeload for that CV. Say 18 of each type, or 24 Zeros, 18 of each of the rest, whatever.

The novel change was that instead of changing the arigroups by date as an evolution of the airgroups (which I can still do, too), I have dates of air attacks set with the strike group, and the CAP group is all the other time for the CV.

So 1938 to 6 Dec, 1941 has 6 Zeros. 7-8 Dec 1941 has the full monty. 8 dec to march back to CAP only, late march-early april full monty in the indian ocean, then back to CAP, etc.

This means you'll only be harassed by dozens of planes on days when the IJN actually used the CV force (historically) to do a major battle. Obviously any other random CV encounters that day(s) will also get loads of planes.

So far I think I like it, but what would make it much better would be to have a clones Zero that was identical except max radius, which I'd change to maybe 100km.

For land bases I was actually thinking I might script patrol aircraft in radial patterns, then see if the airstrike % can be dropped to near zero. I'd then make the chances of a follow up if your position was reported higher than the default 30%. So a H6K spots you and bombs, expect a follow up attack and stay down!

ReallyDedPoet
06-01-07, 05:26 PM
This means you'll only be harassed by dozens of planes on days when the IJN actually used the CV force (historically) to do a major battle. Obviously any other random CV encounters that day(s) will also get loads of planes.



Look forward to it tater.

RDP

tater
06-01-07, 05:46 PM
Heheh, now I need to look through the TROMs for dates when actual strike packages were used.

I will include the fact that I have specific units I always sub for others (shokaku for akagi and Kaga, etc).

Akitsu Maru gets no air group.

The trouble spot in my mind are the seaplane tenders. I also considered adding CA floatplanes. The problem is that the planes will be generated even if the ships are steaming away at 18 knots, which is kind of silly. Right now Chitose has some Petes and some H6Ks. Having those follow it around is pretty silly.

leovampire
06-02-07, 04:08 PM
I set up all the JAP BB's, CA's and CL's with the Pete's used the musium to see how many are on board visualy and the set that number of them up for those ships. I also used them for the JAP sea plane tender.

Wish there was one painted in U.S. colors so i could do the same for our BB's, Ca's and CL's.

BTW in the folder with the ships there is an equipment file just like the planes if you put Radar in as one of the pieces of equipment the CV's will send planes out to investigate the contact. But it's bad if you want to try and approach a task Force.

tater
06-02-07, 04:53 PM
The problem with adding the float planes is that the ships will constantly have them airborne. In RL, float ops were not quite as easy as just the take off from the cat.

If I pout any, I'd tend towards just 1.

tater
06-02-07, 05:40 PM
I have a working CV airgroup mod.

So far I'm getting no planes attacking me. None.

Odd.

joea
06-02-07, 05:55 PM
tater, is there any record of US subs getting hunted by Japanese carriers? The IJN never had CVEs AFAIK, and as you mentioned the CVs would launch all out strikes when needed on land or enemy fleet targets...they probably had a CAP of some sort but they didn't do ASW patrol. Land planes did I guess.

tater
06-02-07, 06:54 PM
Actually, they did have CVEs, Taiyo is one, at least according to Combined Fleet (Parshall and Tully are pretty autoritative regarding the IJN, IMO).

They didn't use them too often as CVE in the sense that the USN and RN did though. Partially because once the fleet CVs were toast, everything changed.

I made missions but I have a theory my idea won't work. I think that the airgroups are picked at the time the unit is created, or per patrol. So if I have a group change from 3 Zeros and nothign else on Feb 14th, to 18 of everything, the thing stays at 3 Zeros.

If that's true, dropping to a CAP is the best I can do.

A definitive CV change would also involve removing the planes from the CV decks, since the IJN didn't keep planes on deck usually. Bugs me every time I see a CV.

leovampire
06-02-07, 09:52 PM
You couldn't get this result after a successfull torpedo attack

http://static.filefront.com/images/personal/l/leovampire/93141/yroithlqbb.thumb250.jpg (http://gallery.filefront.com/leovampire//592364/)

http://static.filefront.com/images/personal/l/leovampire/93141/mzbmpwvssy.thumb250.jpg (http://gallery.filefront.com/leovampire//592365/)

tater
06-02-07, 10:50 PM
Yeah, you're right. That would make me happy :)

tater

tater
06-03-07, 11:11 AM
Sorry, joea, I didn't really answer your question. No, they didn't use them to hunt subs. I think to the extent they were "escort" carriers, they were (doctrinally) thinking about AIR escort. CAP vs enemy aircraft.

All small IJN CVs (CVL/CVE) carried B5Ns (or period equiv) rather than a mixture of dive bombers (VB) and carrier attack planes (VT) in addition to Zeros (early war a few had A5M Claudes, actually). The reaosn was that the Val was a one trick pony with a weak load, while the VTs could carry what the IJN considered the primary anti-ship weapon, the torpedo, but could also carry (for the IJN, anyway) a substantial bomb load compared to the single 250kg bomb aboard a D3A.

So far my tests have not worked out as planned. I think that the airgroup chosen is based on the start date of the player's mission (single mission, or patrol date of start), and do not change over the course of the patrol/mission. This is too bad since the airgroups would be a way of controlling what planes you'd see any given day.

If this is indeed the case, the only solution will be to gut the airgroups totally, IMO.
Scripted missions can still get full air groups, they only need be added as scripted units. I suppose this is more realistic anyway.

I also have not bee strafed by Zeros once. Then again, I haven't been attacked by CV aircraft at all lately, even testing in visual range of a CV for days, hitting the button to make contact or status reports all day. I've had dozens of planes fly over, none attack me. Wonder what is wrong... G4M and flying boats always seem to attack me, but the CV planes just don't ever.

Anyone have any ideas what I sgould look at?

leovampire
06-03-07, 02:41 PM
do you also adjust them in the EQP file with the plane as well? I also found that for some reason or another the Better escorts Mod also made some kind of difference as well in my own case working with it.

In the Airstrike file change the probabilities for radio reports higher if you want faster results to test all of it.