View Full Version : [REL] Better IJNAF Bomb Loads
Version 1.0
http://www.mediafire.com/?etdnc4jtldb
New link:
http://mpgtext.net/subshare/744Fixed%20IJNAF%20Bomb%20Loads.rar (http://www.mediafire.com/?etdnc4jtldb)
This only alters the .cfg and .eqp files for each IJN aircraft. Bomb loads are changed for all planes, and a couple have minor range changes based on Rene Francillon's excellent book Japanese Aircraft of the Pacific War.
A few of the DC loadouts are lower than they really carried because the IJN air-dropped DC was about 1/2 the size of the type in SH4. There are many alternate possible loads for the larger aircraft I have not included in this version (mixed bomb sizes on 1 plane, etc). I also have not included torpedo loads on the H6K and H8K because any load added will be seen by submarines, and it was more of a specific strike package, not a regular maritime patrol load as far as I can tell.
This mod also reduces the Zero's bomb load to, well, zero. Operationally it would have been very very rare to come across a bombed up Zero. The only bomb use I have ever read of (aside from a single 250kg on kamikaze planes) was the use of air to air WP bombs, not A6Ms used as fighter bombers.
Future plans include reworking air groups on CVs, changes and additions to air bases, etc.
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I've tested it, but please inform me of any issues so I can fix them!
One area I guessed on was the type= for the bombs. 250s were type=2, 500s type=3, and so forth, so I set 100s to type=1. Seems to work.
What's the loadout of G4M Betty in your mod?
I only have 2 right now.
3x250kg, and 5x100kg.
G4M could only carry 800kg of bombs, and the model has 5 hardpoints for bombs.
A torpedo load would also be historical, but again, for maritime patrol this would be grossly atypical, and all I really care about is how it interacts with the subs.
If there was a way to weight the bomb loads, or even make some that would only appear in scripted units, but not in airgroup random spawns, I'd do that.
Your mod sounds great. Indeed torpedos were never carried for maritime patrol missions.
Lets not forget that aircraft are listed as cause of loss for only 5 USN subs throughout the whole WW2 (+ 6 subs were lost to "cooperative attacks by aircraft and surface ships") so I support any mod that makes them less lethal and more realistic. This is not Atlantic :cool:
The problem globally with air assets in this game is the airbase paradigm used.
Elanaiba suggested in a post that the airbases actually interact with each other, even if the player is not around! HE said messign with them too much, and the air war can get unbalanced (!?).
Anyway, I have a mod where I have changed the airgroups. Instead of generic small, normal, large, and floatplane bases, I have fighter sentai (small), single engine bomber (normal) sentai, multiengine bomber sentai (large) bases, plus a floatplane base with ONLY floatplanes, and a flyingboat base with only H6Ks transitioning to H8Ks over time: 9xH6K for a while, then 8xH6K, 1xH8K, then 6xH6K, 3xH8K, then 3xH6K, 6xH8K, then all H8K.
Then I build up more planes via mulitiple bases. A base with 18 fighters and 9 bombers I would replace with 2 small airbases (18 fighters) and one large base (9 bombers). If I actually put planes where the IJN had airdromes, there would be far far more planes than you see now, at least as counted by airgroup numbers.
It's pretty complicated, actually. Also, I think a dv post said that the airstrike.cfg probability is of your boat being SPOTTED by aircraft, it doesn't change the chance of planes being spotted by YOU. I'm going to test this.
If true, many more planes is not a problem really, as long as they most don't home on you like a harpoon missile.
ReallyDedPoet
05-30-07, 11:34 AM
Nice work tater:up:
RDP
One thing I am not skilled in is cloning the 3d stuff.
If it were possible to clone the 100kg bomb, and downgrade it to 60kg (in damage, the 3d model doesn't matter, honestly), that would be very cool indeed. Ditto with the air DC. Make a copy dropped from 450kg to 250kg in terms of damage.
Then we'd have many more realistic load choices. I had to use 2x100kg for the Pete because that's all I had to work with---and I figure the Pete is a stand in for all floatplanes, some of which later in the war could have carried a 100 under each wing.
More planes, with less lethal payloads is a good thing, IMO. Subs should want to be submerged during the day.
We are going to try this. Did an intercept on a Task force,then an end around for second attack,the bees during day lite ,were swarming,. It was a Carrier TF,even so,it seemed aircraft carried to many DCs. We now have two 40mm mounts,for,& aft. Going flank,& zagging,We must have shot down twenty.To many ?:yep: Thxs.,tater -- note:but it was fun!:p
Where in NM are you? I'm in ABQ.
Actually, the CVs are a pet peeve of mine.
I have a test mod on this, but it is very harsh. The mod reduces all the CV airgroups to 3 Zeros for CAP. No other planes. The Akitsu Maru gets no planes at all (it was an aircraft ferry, not a CVE).
The reality is that CV operations were not a constant TO and landing with a few planes in the air all the time that we see in SH4. It was pretty all or nothing aside from CAP operations. (launch a full strike, or don't launch a full strike)
I might do this mod, but include a single B5N to give CVs some teeth just to force you down.
Well done tater, this was a needed mod!!! :D
MudMarine
05-30-07, 04:13 PM
tater,
Is this compatable with RFB v1.27?
Should be, RFB only changes some dds files.
great work Tater........thanks Bud
Rolf Eschke
05-31-07, 02:22 PM
Good Job.Well Done!
BTW, I'm certainly willing to entertain a Zero with bombs (maybe 1x100kg to represent 2x60kg or 2x30kg?). My problem is that I don't understand how loads are picked for random air encounters. I presume they are simply picked at random from the list of possible loadouts. If I then wanted a single bomb on a very small % of Zeros, and only at some later date in the war (to represent other IJNAF aircraft not in game, prehaps), I'd still need to make many many empty loads so that it might only pick 1 in 20. I can do it, but I'm not sure what the value would be.
Note also that people have mentioned that planes fly over and do nothing a lot of the time. I think the airstrike probability is the chance a plane that flies over will attack, not the chance a plane will fly over. I have a test in mind for this. I will make a base with 1 plane in the airgroup, and i'll set the attack prob to 100%. If I dont get attacked very X seconds the logic interval) then it's not the chance of a plane appearing.
Anyway, all the planes have a "basic" loadout which contains no bombs. If a type has 1 basic load, and 1 bomb load, then there is a 50% chance any plane you see has no bombs—perhaps they don't bother attacking with no bombs. If that is the case, I will pad all the loads with multiple copies of the bomb loads so that a higher % of aircraft are at least armed. (3 bomb loads, would mean a 75% chance of bombs aboard, etc)
AVGWarhawk
05-31-07, 03:20 PM
Tater,
Can these Zeros do straffing runs on the sub? The Betty fires at the sub. Would be cool if the zero could do the same.
I'm sure I've been strafed before, but that might have only been with bomb-armed planes. Honestly, I pull the plug the second a lookout or SD cries "contact!" I'd prefer to be able to set the menu option for that to "crash dive" instead of a slow cruise to periscope depth.
Actually, planes should really have the possibility of spotting you at PD (particularly in shallow water).
Anyway, needs testing. I'm very open to suggestions/improvements.
I think I will probably keep my changes to the air bases, mission layers, and CVs as separate entities as well, so people can cherry pick what they like (and maybe a version with all in 1). I've never run into a random battle between surface units (with or without air), so I really don't know if there is any reason not to gut the CV airgroups. The only possible reason for having the planes on the CVs right now would be if they'd duke it out sometimes. Even then, the AI vs Ai battles are so lame, it doesn't really matter much.
AVGWarhawk
05-31-07, 03:44 PM
I do not recall if they straffed or not. I usually pull the plug also. I will have to check and see.
Actually, I just thought of a CV compromise I'm gonna try. If it works, I'll make a CV airgroup change mod available possibly tonight.
The change will be that the air groups are set by date.
We know when the major air engagements took place by date... I can have them set to nothing but 3 Zeros for CAP, then turn a real airgroup (24 zeros, 18 vals, 18 kates) on during whatever "event," then off again to CAP. That way Coral Sea, Midway, etc will still have all the CV planes.
:yep:
Better IJN CV Airgroups will be inbound shortly.
It'd be nice to clone the Zero to make a CAP version, actually. That would be set to a very very short range. The problem with the max ranges used for planes is that maritime patrol would use that range, and so would all other planes---assuming they were on a strike mission.
In regular use, however, planes plying patrol around the CV would only fly right around the task force, any farther and they risk giving themselves away. In game right now, any plane can always be found out to irts max range snooping around, which simply didn't happen.
Way out at sea, you should see H6Ks, H8Ks, or G4Ms. Nothing else unless a CV is nearby, or a full strike flies over out or inbound.
How hard is it to clone a Zero? Any of you guys capable of knocking it out quickly?
leovampire
05-31-07, 04:29 PM
Then I set up all JAP airbases with only them and started a patrol once I got close to Honshu the Zero's did come at me with no bombs and did fire their guns. I used the stock Air strike probabilities.
We know when the major air engagements took place by date... I can have them set to nothing but 3 Zeros for CAP, then turn a real airgroup (24 zeros, 18 vals, 18 kates) on during whatever "event," then off again to CAP. That way Coral Sea, Midway, etc will still have all the CV planes.
Historic loadouts for IJN large fleet CVs were:
Pre Midway: 24 Zeros, 24 Vals, 24 Kates.
Post Midway (mid 42): 27 Zeros, 27 Vals, 18 Kates.
Prompted by huge losses among torpedo airctaft, and incredible effectiveness of USN dive bombers at Midway.
It varies a lot based on the specific CVs, and the particular operation, they all had different numbers of planes they could embark.
At Midway (for example):
Akagi: 18 A6M2, 18 D3A1, 18 B5N2 (plus 6 A6M2 of the 6th AG to be embarked to Midway after they took it)
Kaga: Akagi: 18 A6M2, 18 D3A1, 27 B5N2 (plus 9 A6M2 of the 6th AG to be embarked to Midway after they took it, also 2 Vals as cargo)
Hiryu: 18 A6M2, 18 D3A1, 18 B5N2 (plus 3 A6M2 of the 6th AG to be embarked to Midway after they took it)
Soryu: 18 A6M2, 16 D3A1, 18 B5N2, 2 D4Y1 (plus 3 A6M2 of the 6th AG to be embarked to Midway after they took it)
Is for me, too. Will check it out.
I reupped it, and I get the same URL for the fle, and it's still broken.
mediafire having issues?
New link posted front page and here:
http://mpgtext.net/subshare/744Fixed%20IJNAF%20Bomb%20Loads.rar
Lovely mod tater. I'd always thought that the bomb load on Zeros was a touch biased against us all. Will install with JSGME and try in a few min (wife's just popped off to bed so I'm safe to SH4 it for a few hours - lovely!)
Hehe, thanks. the default was 3x500kg bombs, which was frankly insane.
Having no bombs might present a problem because I'm not sure they'll even strafe. I need to test that. It might be a detection issue though.
If they won't attack at all, I don't know what I will do, frankly.
Seeing lone, or 2-3 zeros 1000km from land is pretty silly.
Might need to drop the range to the same as the Kate and Val at the very least. It's not like you see escorted G4Ms, all encounters are pretty much a few planes here and there.
leovampire
06-01-07, 07:02 PM
Doing a straffing run on me and as you can see from the second immage I was being told about dammage from the planes cannons
http://static.filefront.com/images/personal/l/leovampire/93141/qxrvdlmuuk.thumb250.jpg (http://gallery.filefront.com/leovampire//591201/)
http://static.filefront.com/images/personal/l/leovampire/93141/bukyjxzuqh.thumb250.jpg (http://gallery.filefront.com/leovampire//591202/)
Well, the top one is a Betty, not a Zero.
I'm not sure if the planes strafe if not armed with bombs, that's what I was getting at.
tdean001
06-01-07, 09:35 PM
I'd love to give this mod a shot, but I can't get either of the d/l links to work... Looks promising, though!
Thanks for the hardwork :up:
Tom
Works for me on multiple computers running 3 different OSes. Anyone else having problems?
The new link you posted is working perfectly for me.
leovampire
06-02-07, 01:06 AM
But to test it I set them up with no bombs at all and yet they both came at me with guns blazing. What you see comming from the plane are bits and pieces of it from my AAgun.
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