Another way for manual TDC 100% realistic

[kv29]

Ok mates, I´m gonna be as especific as my non native english allows it. I´ve been practicing manual tdc for the last couple of days with Hitman Aob calculation, which is very good. sadly Im not fond about pausing the game to make some math, that was not possible for subs oficers so I tried this method which involves using the map and the tools. so please bear with me, here goes some pics so you can get an accurate idea what Im talking about.


http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/500/42510308oo1.jpg

Here comes Kongo, having a good time.... until now.
First steps:
- once you get to a good firing position, stop the sub.
- open you recognition manual, identify and send to TDC.
- note the bearing, measure the distance with the stadimeter and go to the map

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/7302/85667205lv9.jpg

- draw a circle equal to the target distance with the sub dead on center
- trace an angle equal to the target bearing (this case would be 61°)
- mark with an X the exact point they meet, here is your target.

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/4954/34533090sy1.jpg

- now to get the real bearing of the target we need another mark to draw a line, so lets change the angle to 55° and leave it there, we will come back later.



http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/3148/34303797ql4.jpg

-ok, the idea is to wait and let the target come closer to those 55° in our map. In the meantime, take a minute to calculate the target speed with your method of choice. I used the lenght / time * 2 to get a very accurate reading. Send it to the TDC.

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/3072/83372445cp6.jpg

- as you can see, Kongo has reached those 55°, now take a quick distance measure, send it to the tdc and go to the map.


http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/6675/58060623zc2.jpg

- now take the compass circle and redraw it to the new target distance. now you can make a straight line between those 2 marks, which will give you the real target bearing AND the AoB.

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/9854/34359174cb9.jpg

here is a fairly accurate AoB, put it in the TDC and go back to the scope.

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/8114/36597548bh4.jpg

ok, now you are ready to show Kongo who is the boss here .
You can start firing away, or wait a little for a better angle. Remember that the more you wait, the worst the solution will be.
Send the first 1 with no spread, and the others adding about 1° to each one (in this case all to the left according to the target bearing) to correct minor miscalculations.

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/2789/61779807ud9.jpg

Here they go in a nice spread.

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/6889/10eq7.jpg

Torpedo impact! and 2nd! and 3th! :D and 4th too!! :o
All about 2k mts away.


All this takes a little more time to get it done (not much) but is fun to do. The distance between the first and the second mark on the map will give you a better solution if they are more distanced. It all depends on how much time you have to get the solution before the target slips away, of course. Sometimes would be useful, sometimes not.

[McBeck]

Great work! :D

[Brassusdk]

Great - like you, i do not like to pause the game for some calculation.

Must try this later, Thx :up:

[Hitman]

Nice explanation.:up:

Actually I don't pause the game because I use a wiz wheel that allows me calcualte the AOB based on aspect ratio "on the fly" very fast, say 5-8 seconds at most:smug:

[ReallyDedPoet]

Nice pics, explanation.

RDP

[Uber Gruber]

My simple non-pausing nine step easy maths method:

1. Obtain target relative bearing and distance from sub.
2. Start stop watch
3. Obtain actual bearing via sub heading + target relative bearing (subtract 360 if result greater than 360)
4. Draw circle of radius = target distance (sub as circle center)
5. Mark target actual bearing on circle
6. After specified time (i use 3 mins 15 secs) repeat steps 3 to 5 above.
7. Draw line from first mark to second mark, this will indicate target course and also give you good AOB.
8. Measure distance between first and secon mark and thus calc speed (e.g. distance travelled in 3mins 15 secs in this case)
9. Shoot the little bugger!

[ReallyDedPoet]

My simple non-pausing nine step easy maths method:



Simple is good to :yep:

RDP

[kv29]

Yes Uber, sometimes I do the same speed calc the way you stated using the nomograph :up:. The whole method is valid ONLY if you have enough time and can get to a good firing position, otherwise you have to be really quick, or better use the Hitman aob solution.

btw Hitman, I didn´t see your wiz wheel, I´ll give it a try.

[Uber Gruber]

@KV

Quite true....if time is really of the essence then I always resort to the "oh my god thats so amazingly quick" TDC solution:

1. Obtain target bearing and distance from scope
2. Enter target speed = target top speed / 2 (top speed from recog man)
3. Visually Estimate angle on bow
4. Watch TDC for a short while to ensure AOB or Speed not too far off (adjust if necessary)
5. Fire spread of four Ts, one amidships, one T 1deg towards target stern, two Ts 1 deg towards target bow.

These are really the only methods I use and i get a very good success rate with them. I have followed all the whizz wheel topics but just haven't got round to trying them out yet. I think my next toy will be attempting real navigation using sun/star positions.....looks like it could be quite interesting.

[Hitman]

btw Hitman, I didn´t see your wiz wheel, I´ll give it a try.

No the one I use for AOB calculation is another, which I have not yet made publically available. The one you know is the reverse side of the MK3 Submarine Attack course finder, which allows you to calculate everything but you must still guess the AOB. What I have is another wiz wheel that is purposedly built for AOB calculation, so once I get it I plug into the TDC and later in the MK3 if I see I will hve enough time to do a proper plot and confirm speed data.:up:

My second tool has one wheel for scope vertical marsk and another for horizontals. Aligning the number of horizontals with the verticals you see through your scope, you get instantly the new aspect ratio. Moving then the wheel to align this new aspect ratio with the old one, you read instantly the AOB. As I said, a matter of 5-10 seconds.

Cheers

[jmr]

btw Hitman, I didn´t see your wiz wheel, I´ll give it a try.
No the one I use for AOB calculation is another, which I have not yet made publically available.
Dude, you mean to me you're holding back on us :{

[Hitman]

Dude, you mean to me you're holding back on us :{

Sorry? As non-native english speaker I'm afraid I missed what you meant exactly?:-?

[jmr]

Sorry about that, Hitman. I was joking around as in you made another cool whiz wheel but decided to not share it with the rest of us.

[Hitman]

Ah LOL OK:up: Don't worry I will share it when I'm satisfied enough with its look and easyness of use. I have already an idea to make it be a single step to determine the AOB, shortening even more the operation:know:

[Brassusdk]

I hit with 2 out of 10 tops. - i am really bad ,with manuel targeting, but i rather sink 5000 t. on 100 % realism on each patrol,then 30000 t. or more, with auto target.

But thats just me :rock:

To Hitman :

So i am one of those, that really would like to see your AOB calculator.

So please post it here, when you think its done, you will make a bad captain like me a little better :know: .

[MudMarine]

btw Hitman, I didn´t see your wiz wheel, I´ll give it a try.

No the one I use for AOB calculation is another, which I have not yet made publically available. The one you know is the reverse side of the MK3 Submarine Attack course finder, which allows you to calculate everything but you must still guess the AOB. What I have is another wiz wheel that is purposedly built for AOB calculation, so once I get it I plug into the TDC and later in the MK3 if I see I will hve enough time to do a proper plot and confirm speed data.:up:

My second tool has one wheel for scope vertical marsk and another for horizontals. Aligning the number of horizontals with the verticals you see through your scope, you get instantly the new aspect ratio. Moving then the wheel to align this new aspect ratio with the old one, you read instantly the AOB. As I said, a matter of 5-10 seconds.

Cheers

This will be worth waiting for. Please Post a thread and keep us posted as to it developement.

[Puster Bill]

btw Hitman, I didn´t see your wiz wheel, I´ll give it a try.
No the one I use for AOB calculation is another, which I have not yet made publically available. The one you know is the reverse side of the MK3 Submarine Attack course finder, which allows you to calculate everything but you must still guess the AOB.

That's not entirely true, Hitman.

You can indeed get the AOB from the reverse side of the MK3 Submarine Attack Course Finder, as well as the back side of your Kriegsmarine version.

However, for it to be an ACCURATE AOB, you must be stationary, or nearly so compared to the target. One knot is the speed at which I do this, if submerged, or if a surface night attack I go to All Stop.



Lets say you took two sightings on a target:

OBS A - 8000 yards, 80 degrees
OBS B - 5100 yards, 50 degrees

The difference between 80 and 50 degrees is 30 degrees. We align the middle wheel of the backside of the SACF so that 30 degrees spans the difference between 5100 yards and 8000 yards on the outer wheel. It should look like this:

http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/2750/picture031yp7.jpg

Notice that the 65 degree mark is under the range for OBS A (8000 yards) and the 35 degree mark is under the range for OBS B (5100 yards). That 65 degrees under the range for OBS A is the AOB for OBS B, and the 35 degrees under the range for OBS B is the AOB for OBS A.

Here it is plotted out on a maneuvering board, and I verified it with a protractor:

http://img393.imageshack.us/img393/654/picture032dr3.jpg

Angle D-A-C (the 'D' is cut off, is is at the top left of the image) is 35 degrees, and the angle D-B-C is 65 degrees.

You don't need a separate AOB calculator wheel, the SACF and the Kriegsmarine wheels will do it for you (although for an AOB greater than 90 degrees, the SACF is superior, because you don't have to do the math in your head to subtract the angle from 180 degrees, it's right there on the wheel).

You still have to resolve it port or starboard. I do it in my head, usually, but in this case we are obviously to the port of the target ship.

I unlock the scope immediately after my second observation, do the wheel calculations, and enter the distance for OBS B, the angle underneath OBS A, and the speed from the calculation that I haven't shown, into the TDC. Then I re-lock the scope on the target.

It's accurate enough that I never bother with the front of the wheels, I get all the information that I need from the back.

[Hitman]

Bill,

yes I know that, but I meant actually that I have developed another wheel for the aspect ratio method, and that the MK3 and KM wiz wheels were actually designed to start from a guesstimate of the AOB. Of course you can calculate the true AOB with them after 2 observations, but I wanted another tool that gives me the AOB to input in the SH4 tool directly with just one scope observation. :up:

P.S. I will not keep posting in this thread as I think I'm "hijacking" it :oops: Apologizes kv29, you did a great tutorial:oops:

[Puster Bill]

Oh, OK Hitman. Didn't quite realize you were talking about a 1 observation firing procedure. That would be handy for those 'off the cuff' shots that happen at short range.

[kv29]

Don´t worry Hitman, we are all contributing here. I believe its important for SH newbies to know there are several paths to achieve the same thing, making the game far more interesting. Im currently using all the techniques discussed here in the forums, and all vastly improved my gameplay :up:

[MONOLITH]

This is great stuff.

Thanks guys.

*off to practice*