RealNav navigation..

[vanjast]

As I mentioned before, this is my new career and generally the first serious test of the RealNav mod. Well I'm happy to say it's works well so far, and I would like to complete the first mission before I make a full report.

Things I've noticed so far:
- I reduced my max time compression to 256x as the helmsman does not stay on course and you have to correct him (maybe this can be 'modded' to make life easier).
- I regularly 'get lost' out in the open sea but rely on my sextant and almanac to fix my position.
- In between readings and with lousy weather I keep notes on course, times and speed.

It has worked out pretty well as with this example :-

I'd been floating around the Outer Hebrides of Scotland when calm weather arrived. I decided that the island down to the SW was a good aiming point for a little test. I'd last got a FIX some 6 hours prior to this, and so changed course and went.
In calm seas one does not have to correct the helmsman that much - so 256x it was.
When close I made a course correction, hopefully to bring me within sight of land.
http://www.vanjast.com/SH3Pics/Course.jpg

Turned up the time compression and then later turned down to normal time - just in time to see the island. I nearly beamed passed it.
http://www.vanjast.com/SH3Pics/OuterIsland.jpg

With this mod I've found that you have to keep your wits about you.
The higher your time compression the quicker you'll get lost.
Use the ruler, marker, protractor and bearing tool continously
Take it slow, boring I know, but it's very rewarding to actually know where you are, and you did this on your own.
This is all before you start sinking ships
:up:

[Notewire]

Nice Navigating Vanjast, I have been using the same method - and I love it. It really gives you the feel of Sailing - not just warping around a map shooting at things. I couldn't be without it myself.

Happy Hunting,
Notewire

[vanjast]

That's for sure Notewire :up:
I'm currently at the western approaches and decided to patrol here instead of my assigned grid (too far away). I went down to take a hydrophone reading and picked up a ship in the east.

Now previously (before this mod) I'd turn around and star-trek myself down there, sink the ship and go elsewhere - no problem.

This time:
I note the time.
Turn around, surface and max speed - take notes of speed and course.
While on the way Fix my turn-around position.
When ship is sighted note time (calculate distance travelled) and begin attack. i sunk the ship by gunfire as the sea was flat.
Then returned to original course, taking notes of time, speed etc..

With all these times, speeds, courses, etc I use the Marker pen to note my current position.


As you all can see, it's a s.h-i't load more work to do, but if you think about it in RL, this is no more than what you'd do on a sailing boat.

[Georg_Unterberg]

great job vanjast! :up:

I think real navigation adds a new dimension to this game. I hoped, they had done it in SH4 but I guess only a few people cared about it.

Before I dare to try to navigate for real: What almanac data do you use, vanjast? I wonder if the SH3 team did in fact use the ephemeris data from 1939-1945 to model the constellations. I only have almanac data from 1950 up to now.

I have tried to triangulate position by using 3 stars. I get varying results in position accuracy - best was 10nm so far (which is pretty good I think) and worst was 80nm error. Its impressive to see that all the constellations are in fact there where they should be!

[vanjast]

great job vanjast! :up:
What almanac data do you use, vanjast? I wonder if the SH3 team did in fact use the ephemeris data from 1939-1945 to model the constellations. I only have almanac data from 1950 up to now.

the one I use is here:-
http://www.vanjast.com/NavMod/RealNav_ReadMe2.zip (1.7MB)
or
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=113975

I made this up for 1939-45 from a celestial proggy I bought.


I have tried to triangulate position by using 3 stars. I get varying results in position accuracy - best was 10nm so far (which is pretty good I think) and worst was 80nm error. Its impressive to see that all the constellations are in fact there where they should be! I must still try this - maybe you want to write up a doccy on Triangulation
:up:

[Georg_Unterberg]

vanjast,

got your sun almanac and its a pretty good table :up:
calculating longitude by sunrise/sunset should be no problem now. BTW have you noticed that ship chronometer (in lower right corner) does not show GMT? Weird thing. It seems to show local time (and local time seems to be something else). Noticed that because all star calculations were wrong when I used missions in western atlantic (far off greenwich meridian).

As for triangulation, I use a german freeware tool called "Nautic Tools" to make the calculations. It's simply too much workload to do it with pen, paper & book all the time. :yep:
The "nautic tools 1.20" from Markus Eisenbart is a mighty fine program (but in german)

http://www.nautictools.de/

I also need help with removing the "tailfin" course marker of my own position. I don't know how to remove it. It was great for testing, but it needs to be removed for real navigation. do you know how??

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/3128/shot1179537823zk1.jpg

[vanjast]

Hi Georg..
with regard to the tailfin marker - which supermod/mod ar you using.
If you have a look at the 'theModInDetail' PDF file in the RealNav_ReadMe2.zip
archive file. I'm using NYGM V2.5 mod.

I edited the command_eng(de).cfg Navigation_Officer section.
Here I commented out all nav tools except one or two.

also in the menu_1024_768.ini
I edited/commented out the Waypoint tool to prevent course line drawing.

If you're using GWX or other mods you might find different items in these files. Maybe you can put up/link these 2 files for me to look at.


The game GMT clock keeps its own time. The local clock you'll notice always adjusts it hour when crossing the 7.5, 22.5, 37.5, ..... meridians. This is the one method of determining you Longitude position.
I've noticed when you leave base on a mission the GMT clock is locked on the nearest Longitude (EG: 15E for Kiel ) If you play the whole mission without loading a saved game GMT time will always be on Kiel which make Longitude and the Almanac OK - you must just adjust for the hour advance.

I had it occasionaly jump to Real Life GMT, but after my las reload I found the clock locked on Kiel. I'm still testing this with the almanac - so far so good.

:up:

[Anvart]

...
I also need help with removing the "tailfin" course marker of my own position. I don't know how to remove it. It was great for testing, but it needs to be removed for real navigation. do you know how??

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/3128/shot1179537823zk1.jpg
May be it's scanteie_add.tga in materials.dat file ... :roll:

[Georg_Unterberg]

ok, I got rid of the tail - it's the file data/Menu/Gui/ContLine.tga (thanks to Rubini for finding out everything about this file)
If making it transparent, all the tails are gone. That's a very pleasant effect, now all the tails of opportunity contacts are gone too. So you only get the general direction e.g. WSW and no more exact course as indicated by the tail. good thing!

BTW I use GWX 1.03. In NYGM 2.5 the modders may have eliminated the tail right away.
no need to look into it further, problem solved :up:

[Anvart]

:o Contline.tga it's not a tail of submarine ...

[Georg_Unterberg]

:o Contline.tga it's not a tail of submarine ...

anvart, somehow the course-tail is related to contline.tga.
But that's not all, all the plotting lines use this file, too. So by erasing it or making it transparent you'll lose some more lines, too - like e.g. contact lines from sonarman.

Did you find a way to manipulate the tail? I believe it's hardcoded.

[Werewolf]

I'm very interested in this! :D But what does the mod. actually consist of? And, is it possible to download it anywhere....maybe I'm dumb, but I get confused reading the post :oops:

[KLARCH]

I've noticed when you leave base on a mission the GMT clock is locked on the nearest Longitude (EG: 15E for Kiel ) :up:

I've noticed this as well from leaving from Wilhelmshaven in '39. Confused the hell out of me until I located my position a few times with CTRL+left click and and added 4 min. per degree from sunrise to 15E.:damn:

I believe this is the most necessary mod, in terms of realistic gameplay, since the longer sinking times were implemented.

Great job vanjast!!!:rock:

[fly999]

Do any of you guys know of a PC software programme that not only teaches celestial navegaton etc ,but also allows you to pratice it on a pc. sort of like sh3 with vanjasts mod but with much more prescision and depth ?. excuse the pun.

Vanjast,thanks for the mod , makes the whole thing much more immersive, do think this might work using real charts ?

Cheers.

[poor sailor]

I'm very interested in this! :D But what does the mod. actually consist of? And, is it possible to download it anywhere....maybe I'm dumb, but I get confused reading the post :oops:
Try this http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=113975

[don1reed]

Howdy Vanjast.

I'm snuggling up to 70yo and have been using Celestial Nav via sextant before the USN quit teaching it at Annapolis; however, when I saw your post re RelNav...I took the bait and had to give it a try. :)

Some of us have been scratching our beans trying to adapt CN into this Sim since it first appeared on the market. We always came up short as we discovered the celestial canopy was close to real (eye candy) for the war years, but no cigar...if you know what I mean.

I'm running a patl just west of England at 53° 40'N, 001° 25'E.
Time: 16:00 GMT...see below. I'm using your mod and as you can see, the sextant reading is about 9° off from "Navigator's" starfinder, or somewhere out in the middle of the Atlantic (540nm).

If I'm doing something wrong...please correct me, or if I'm using the sextant at the wrong times..please let me know.

At sea the sextant was used at dawn (morning round of stars), again around 0900 to get a running fix, Noon sight & fix (for etmal), about 1600 to get another running fix, and finally at evening twilight fix with round of stars. (unless wx was overcast).

Please post how to successfully use your mod.

Tnx,


http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j42/donhreed/Clipboard01.jpg

[poor sailor]

Please post how to successfully use your mod.

You may look at this guide by vanjast http://www.vanjast.com/NavMod/QuickNavGuide.pdf

[don1reed]

Tnx for the response, Poor Sailor.

Are you telling me of all the 52 navigational stars, Sun, Moon, & 4 major navigational planets--that using this mod we can only navigate using the pole star, Polaris?

Right. Ok. Just so I know.

I've been getting frustrated and have been frustrated since Mar 2005 trying to virtually navigate using celestial bodies mentioned above using several real world navigational programs, so I abandoned the idea long ago.

If, polaris, is all that works, then I guess it'll have to do. I originally gave up on using the pole-star due to it's high altitude while operating in the North Sea, (it was usually just too high up for my screen to be able to capture, both the body and the horizon simultaneously.)

Tnx agn.

[vanjast]

Hi Don1Reed, sorry for the delayed reply..
with regard to the Sextant, it currently works on the game default resolution of 1024x768. I've tried a 1280x1024 image but still have to sort out problems here.

(See image below) When taking a reading one has to horizontally rotate your screen view until the star is close to horizontal(X-Axis) screen centre. I had to do this as the vertical angle of the star changes with view rotation along the X-axis. the screen centre is the best(only viable) reference point in the game.

Next the sextant image is dragged out and placed left-off centre of the screen, with the top and bottom alignment markers just off screen.

After this you vertically rotate your view until the bottom of the screen aligns with the horizon. This has to be done as the game vertical screen scale is non-linear and the horizon is now the next reference point. You can now take a reading.

Also from what I've experienced so far The stars and constellations are in their correct positions with repect to time, so any star reading can be taken. Some body else here has already triangulated their position to 10nm accuracy so it's looking good so far.
http://www.vanjast.com/NavMod/SextantPic.jpg

The next image gives a visual idea of what is done above Plus the part that you were concerned about - angles above 60 degrees. The default game screen gives a vertical view angle of 60 Degrees, so if you want to 'shoot' 60-90 degrees one has to vertically rotate the scrren view to it's max.
This places the centre point of your screen at 90 degrees directly above you with +- 30 degree views either side of the vertical. I've found the scale here to be consistent with the horizontal view. You will now have the 60-90 degree view angles
http://www.vanjast.com/NavMod/SextantProperties.jpg

Once I've sorted out all the different screen resolutions, I'll put a proper document together, as it is a bit lacking at the moment.

Thanks
Van-o
:up:

[Georg_Unterberg]

Hi don1reed,

it's strange: I get a good result at this position and time:
Your almanac states 20°21' for sun elevation at 10.Sep.1939 - 1600 GMT - 53°40N - 1°25E
I copy that, got same result with my almanac. Using SH3 to make a mission at that time & position I warp to the eastern coast of England and shoot the sun at about 20° (center) - which is ok!

Please check:
- date and time in SH3 correct? You calculated for 10.September 1939 (09/10/1939)!
- position in SH3 correct? You said you are west of England, but your position is in fact east of England!

hope i could help you ;)

cheers


Howdy Vanjast.

I'm snuggling up to 70yo and have been using Celestial Nav via sextant before the USN quit teaching it at Annapolis; however, when I saw your post re RelNav...I took the bait and had to give it a try. :)

Some of us have been scratching our beans trying to adapt CN into this Sim since it first appeared on the market. We always came up short as we discovered the celestial canopy was close to real (eye candy) for the war years, but no cigar...if you know what I mean.

I'm running a patl just west of England at 53° 40'N, 001° 25'E.
Time: 16:00 GMT...see below. I'm using your mod and as you can see, the sextant reading is about 9° off from "Navigator's" starfinder, or somewhere out in the middle of the Atlantic (540nm).

If I'm doing something wrong...please correct me, or if I'm using the sextant at the wrong times..please let me know.

At sea the sextant was used at dawn (morning round of stars), again around 0900 to get a running fix, Noon sight & fix (for etmal), about 1600 to get another running fix, and finally at evening twilight fix with round of stars. (unless wx was overcast).

Please post how to successfully use your mod.

Tnx,


http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j42/donhreed/Clipboard01.jpg

[don1reed]

:oops: woops...typo. Meant East of England. :D tnx Georg.

And tnx, van, for the explanation. I'll have to fumble around with it abit to get my sea-legs adjusted.

-...-

Georg, the date & time is correct as my pic shows; however, my Windows/print screen function peeled away some of the sun-glare and shows the Sun's position in the middle of the screen (roughly) where I believe, van, is referring with his pic. As you can see, the "Navigator's Star Finder" shows Hc for the Sun as 20° 21.0'. The closest I could get to that was about 29°...also show on my pic. 9° off (540nm) is not too good.

The non-linearity of the screen is (no pun intended) throwing me a curve.

[Georg_Unterberg]

hi don1reed,

if you hover with your mouse over the "ship time" 16:00 in lower right screen you get an additional local time reading - does the local time also show 16:00?

edit (my theory):
i could bet it shows you 17:00, an indicator that you started the mission in timezone +1.
So if local time and ship time is different, the ship time reading (16:00) is NOT the real GMT. To get the real GMT for your almanac prog please subtract the time difference (local - ship time) from the displayed ship time.

In your example: (1700 local - 1600 ship) = +1h. GMT = 1600 - (+1h) = 1500

In your picture in SH3 you are seeing the sun at 15:00 GMT.


edit again:
Just saw your answer below. I refrain from my theory. I'll check this later...

:oops: woops...typo. Meant East of England. :D tnx Georg.

And tnx, van, for the explanation. I'll have to fumble around with it abit to get my sea-legs adjusted.

-...-

Georg, the date & time is correct as my pic shows; however, my Windows/print screen function peeled away some of the sun-glare and shows the Sun's position in the middle of the screen (roughly) where I believe, van, is referring with his pic. As you can see, the "Navigator's Star Finder" shows Hc for the Sun as 20° 21.0'. The closest I could get to that was about 29°...also show on my pic. 9° off (540nm) is not too good.

The non-linearity of the screen is (no pun intended) throwing me a curve.

[don1reed]

Georg, I'm in the Greenwich time zone.

Here's another example:

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j42/donhreed/Clipboard02.jpg

As you can see, we have the constellation Orion in the center of the screen.

Betelgeuse is 3° off
Bellatrix is 11.6° off
Rigel is 9.5° off
and over to the left a bit is
Procyon and its off by 14.75°

(Compiled a RW sight reduction on those number, btw, and it would put me 63° 58'N, 000° 19.8'W.) 634.7nm by great circle calc.from my actual fix.

So, I'm at a loss...except for cntl-left mouse. :hmm:

[vanjast]

Don1Reed :- Sorry but you are placing the sextant in the wrong (vertical) position.
Have a look at the image sequence below.

You are placing the bottom of the sextant on the sea horizon
http://www.vanjast.com/NavMod/WrongHorizon1.jpg

Whereas you must place it so that it exactly fits on the screen (1024x768 resolution). On a bigger screen AFAIK you must fix it on the bottom of the screen
http://www.vanjast.com/NavMod/WrongHorizon2.jpg

You then pan your screen view vertically until the horizon is on the bottom of your screen. Here I've lowered it a bit so that you can see the horizon/sea
http://www.vanjast.com/NavMod/WrongHorizon3.jpg

When this alignment is done then can you take a reading.
Hope this makes it better

[vanjast]

So, I'm at a loss...except for cntl-left mouse. :hmm:

Remember that this is not a GPS nav system (like ctl-LMouse) so navigation is not
that accurate.
With this mod, I think it will be accurate to say that that this is the 'technology' that they had to deal with - sextant and tables. So there are going to be in accuracies in navigation.

I've limited my time acceleration to 256x and kept strict notes on times, speed, course, etc.. and found myself to be within 5nm after a 5 day blizzard. OK we don't have to take currents into acount, but it's only a game and a good education (for me) non-the-less

Having said that I found great enjoyment to pin-point my exact position after many days of overcast skies, rain, sleet and snow.

I'm getting soppy now
Must refill my glass
:lol:

[kevtherev]

ok, I got rid of the tail - it's the file data/Menu/Gui/ContLine.tga (thanks to Rubini for finding out everything about this file)
If making it transparent, all the tails are gone. BTW I use GWX 1.03. In NYGM 2.5 the modders may have eliminated the tail right away.
no need to look into it further, problem solved :up:

Great news Georg, I am using Paint Shop but cannot seem to make the ContLine.tga transparent, no matter what I try there is still the 'tail' on my map. Can you give me a quick know how on this procedure ?
PS: I have only tried to 'dissapear' my own sub indication, I have not done any furthet installations, except the UnitSub, UnitSubM and UnitSubL replacements with the ones from RealNav mod.

[don1reed]

Ah...........hah!

(A Eureka moment)

I was using the bloody instrument incorrectly :rotfl:

With every circle of equal altitude....one never knows.


Later,

[Georg_Unterberg]

hi kevtherev,

I used GIMP to edit the contline.tga. I found out that to remove the tail its not necessary to delete the whole line - which is 256 pixel long. By using the eraser (rubber) tool simply delete the leftmost 50 pixel and the rightmost 50 pixel of the line and save as uncompressed .tga.

I can upload my contline.tga, but its only for GWX 1.03 - should I upload it?


ok, I got rid of the tail - it's the file data/Menu/Gui/ContLine.tga (thanks to Rubini for finding out everything about this file)
If making it transparent, all the tails are gone. BTW I use GWX 1.03. In NYGM 2.5 the modders may have eliminated the tail right away.
no need to look into it further, problem solved :up:
Great news Georg, I am using Paint Shop but cannot seem to make the ContLine.tga transparent, no matter what I try there is still the 'tail' on my map. Can you give me a quick know how on this procedure ?
PS: I have only tried to 'dissapear' my own sub indication, I have not done any furthet installations, except the UnitSub, UnitSubM and UnitSubL replacements with the ones from RealNav mod.

[heartc]

Vanjast, I just want to thank you for this great mod. I'm not yet using it as I've yet to learn the basics, but I know I eventually will do so and enjoy the heck out of it. I remember quite some time ago there was a thread discussing the possibility of "real life" navigation by shooting the stars / the moon / the sun in the game, and back then the consensus was that it can't be done (something about that the world in SHIII is flat). But seems like you found a way and even if it would still be limited to some extend by the game setup, it seems to be accurate enough.

I remember another problem though which was discussed then: The fact that the rudder (or the "helmsman") would not compensate for sea currents to stay the course when you enter the heading manually, other than when the course is plotted on the map. That would result in an ever increasing error, drifting you off course, and require constant position checks.
What is your experience with that?

[don1reed]

I have to admit, van, that it was "force of habit" to use the horizon as my base...because thats what I do with real sextant. Sorry for the confusion.

Accuracy at sea is a relative thing. Kriegsmarine grid squares were 6nm x 6nm (at their smallest). Anyone on the tower could see anything within those squares, at least "smoke on the horizon" for sure.

When the Naval Academy taught Cel Nav, their standard was accuaracy to within 0.5nm. (1000yds).

Cheers,

[kevtherev]

hi kevtherev,

I used GIMP to edit the contline.tga. I found out that to remove the tail its not necessary to delete the whole line - which is 256 pixel long. By using the eraser (rubber) tool simply delete the leftmost 50 pixel and the rightmost 50 pixel of the line and save as uncompressed .tga.

I can upload my contline.tga, but its only for GWX 1.03 - should I upload it?



Uploading your .tga file would be great Georg, I am also using GWX 1.03 so could use it there, maybe could also try it in NYGM 2.5 ?
many thanks for your offer, look forward to a download !!

[Georg_Unterberg]

ok, download here: http://files.filefront.com//;7602299;;/


readme:

MOD: course tail remove for GWX 1.03 (will probably work with all GWX versions)
Installation: JSGME-ready
changed file: /data/Menu/Gui/ContLine.tga

Purpose: Removes the "tail" from contacts on NavMap. The tail is an indicator for the course the contact is heading. This MOD will remove ALL the tails from contacts, including your own sub. This is necessary if you play GWX and want to use vanjasts "RealNav MOD".

Note: The file contline.tga seems to be responsible not only for the tails but also for other *solid* lines that appear on the NavMap, like e.g. hydrophone directions in assisted plotting mod. This Mod will ONLY remove the tails completely, you'll notice that other solid lines will appear "dashed".

If navigating for real, don't forget to check "No map contact updates" in SH3 difficulty settings :)

All credits to *Rubini* who sorted this out sometime in 2006.
http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/4611/tailsremovedqs1.jpg

[vanjast]

I remember another problem though which was discussed then: The fact that the rudder (or the "helmsman") would not compensate for sea currents to stay the course when you enter the heading manually, other than when the course is plotted on the map. That would result in an ever increasing error, drifting you off course, and require constant position checks.
What is your experience with that?

Hi Heartc, with regard to ocean currents, I don't think they're modelled in the game, and when playing in game, the higher your time compression, the more/quicker one drifts off course. I've found that a compression of 256x is just managable. this time compression is at the limit of important aspects of the game, relating to aircraft and radar detection.

It does make the game slower, but I've found it enjoyable non-the-less.
:up:

[vanjast]

I have to admit, van, that it was "force of habit" to use the horizon as my base...because thats what I do with real sextant. Sorry for the confusion.
Cheers,
hi Don, I tried using the sextant on the sea horizon very early in testing and found the errors that you got as well, this being due to the POV(point of view) scales on the screen being non-linear. I eventually worked it out that placing the sextant so it fitted the whole screen gave consistent accuracy. Tedious yes, but it works .

We can call it "setting up the sextant" for shooting

Van-o

[heartc]

Ok, thanks for the feedback, Vanjast! :cool:

[don1reed]

Roger that 'n tnx
:yep: :yep:

[poor sailor]

I've finally successfully installed your mod!;) And from now I'm going to navigation school.:know: Maybe is early for this question, yes I don't learn yet to navigate, but interesting in some solution for attack when you find the target. Could the function Ctrl+left click do the job for this and the marking the position of own sub and after that take a measure for target ship? Or maybe another tips for this, maybe is good to have a different solutions. I already have a hard situation to plotting because I using assisted plotting mod and my sonar contact lines are dashed, but I love much more reality and with this vanjast mod everything is an upper level of realism. For real hardcore captains.:up:

[vanjast]

I've finally successfully installed your mod!;) And from now I'm going to navigation school.:know: Maybe is early for this question, yes I don't learn yet to navigate, but interesting in some solution for attack when you find the target. Could the function Ctrl+left click do the job for this and the marking the position of own sub and after that take a measure for target ship? Or maybe another tips for this, maybe is good to have a different solutions. I already have a hard situation to plotting because I using assisted plotting mod and my sonar contact lines are dashed, but I love much more reality and with this vanjast mod everything is an upper level of realism. For real hardcore captains.:up:

The CTL-Left Click looks hard coded as I cannot find where to get rid of it.
As with the sonar lines, if you run at 100% reality setting AFAIK these will disappear leaving you 'alone'.
:up:

[poor sailor]

I've have doing some tests of this mod in Naval Academy-Convoy Attack, and found some small issue.

For the first picture I used the originaly file "Maps.cfg" from RealNav mod and in high zoom level I found this as seen in picture
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/6581/shot1zoommappu3.th.jpg (http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shot1zoommappu3.jpg)
On that high zoom level I can't use any plotting for this convoy for example. The distance of this convoy by me in this case is about 1000m (Using Weapon officer target solution)

Then I tried to use the originaly "Maps.cfg" file from GWX and also same like "Assisted plotting" mod "Maps.cfg" which I use. Only thing I did is including one transparent file for in this example VIIb submarine to prevent seeing a 1500m Pato bearing and my position. And from the picture I seen that I have a much better and enough space to take a "attack" measures.

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/2438/shot2zoommaptt6.th.jpg (http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shot2zoommaptt6.jpg)

Now, my question is, may I use this maps.cfg settings in second example without loosing anything important of "RealNav" mod?

For the end, to not confuse someone, this plot lines on pictures are originaly made for Naval Academy-Convoy Attack mission.
And also if someone wants this transparent file I can made a JSGME version for GWX for all the submarines types. I get this file from Dantenoc FileFront page.

[vanjast]

Hi PoorSailor, you refer to pictures in th above post. Could you link them please as I cannot see any pics.

With regard to the 'maps.cfg' files this is the only change I've added.
[Map0]
;ZoomLevels=1,2,5,10,20,50,100,200,500,1000,2000,4 000,7000,10000,20000,40000; meters per pixel
ZoomLevels=100,200,500,1000,2000,4000,7000,10000,2 0000,40000; meters per pixel
InitialZoom=500

At the minimum zoom level = 100, the map is at a nice visual level, which is also enough to do basic close navigation. Below this level the map gets 'blocky'/pixelated and is not very helpfull.

With regard to convoy plotting and navigation, I have not had the opportunity to try this and only have the NYGM 2.5 mod installed. It looks like this mod will only work properly with 100% realistic settings, as here all the little extras are disabled (except Ctl-LeftClick)

I think one has to look carefully at what each mod installs, as it might override other mod files. Also compare any changed files and adjust them to what they originally were to maintain the nav mod.

Van-o
:up:

[poor sailor]

Posting again pictures.
First one is taken from max zoom level on your original map.cfg and represent what I see in max zoom in Naval academy-Convoy attack mission. The point of this is that I can't doing any measures on map, because that convoy is about 1000-1500m to me, in this situation my actual position is on the edge of this circle wich represents a enemy convoy.

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/4625/shot1zoommappd8.jpg
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/4625/shot1zoommappd8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

And the second picture with originaly GWX "maps.cfg" which is the same as NYGM "maps.cfg" and also in max zoom. And in this zoom level I can use a tools which need to me to take in map. I use "Assisted plotting mod" and because of that I have this dashed sonar lines. Ploting lines seen on both pictures are originaly there by the Naval Academy-Convoy attack mission.
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/8978/shot2zoommaplh8.jpg
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/8978/shot2zoommaplh8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I checked already and there is no conflict (I mean your mod and GWX original files), and I seen the change you did in "maps.cfg" as you posted in your last post, but only I want to know is: may I use the second settings as seen in second picture without loosing anything important on your "realnav" mod. You may try this training mission yourself and you will see what I'm talking. Your mod is really fantastic but for myself I can't loose the feeling of manualy plotting target as I before did and maybe I already know that I may use the second option on this post but only I want to You confirm that, just to be sure for myself. I posted on SH3 forum the question about how to make an attack and do the manual calculations for target with using option "No map updates". This is very interesting question, and think that there is no many players on this forum who use this option but already get some really usefull advices and must to play myself and find out, but first I must to learn to navigate with your mod. I'm navigation schoolboy:know:

[Georg_Unterberg]

hi poor sailor,

for higher navmap zoom levels and real navigation you may want to try this maps.cfg settings:
this should make the 3km bearing tool from GWX "invisible"
BTW: don't forget the attack map!


[Map0]
MapID=Navigation_map
Position=0,0
Resolution=1024,656
MajorSqrs=4,2.4
MinorSqrs=5,5
PixPerUnit=50
ZoomLevels=1,2,5,10,20,50,100,200,500,1000,2000,40 00,7000,10000,20000,40000; meters per pixel
;ZoomLevels=100,200,500,1000,2000,4000,7000,10000, 20000,40000; meters per pixel
InitialZoom=10000;prevents giving you a good guess where you are - if pressing F5 after reload
SymbolZoom=1;units are drawn as symbols from this zoom up; no more 3km bearing tool
GroupsZoom=100;units are drawn in groups from this zoom up
CityZoom=7000;city names are displayed from this zoom down
KriegZoom=2000;krieg labels are separated displayed from this zoom up
HarborZoom=100;harbors will be displayed from this zoom up

[Map1]
MapID=Attack_map
Position=0,0
Resolution=1024,768
MajorSqrs=4,3
MinorSqrs=5,5
PixPerUnit=50
ZoomLevels=1; meters per pixel; F6 attack map is always centered on your position!
InitialZoom=1; highest zoom only will make it useless for revealing position by accident
SymbolZoom=2;units are drawn as symbols from this zoom up
GroupsZoom=2;units are drawn in groups from this zoom up

[poor sailor]

hi poor sailor,

for higher navmap zoom levels and real navigation you may want to try this maps.cfg settings:
this should make the 3km bearing tool from GWX "invisible"
BTW: don't forget the attack map!


[Map0]
MapID=Navigation_map
Position=0,0
Resolution=1024,656
MajorSqrs=4,2.4
MinorSqrs=5,5
PixPerUnit=50
ZoomLevels=1,2,5,10,20,50,100,200,500,1000,2000,40 00,7000,10000,20000,40000; meters per pixel
;ZoomLevels=100,200,500,1000,2000,4000,7000,10000, 20000,40000; meters per pixel
InitialZoom=10000;prevents giving you a good guess where you are - if pressing F5 after reload
SymbolZoom=1;units are drawn as symbols from this zoom up; no more 3km bearing tool
GroupsZoom=100;units are drawn in groups from this zoom up
CityZoom=7000;city names are displayed from this zoom down
KriegZoom=2000;krieg labels are separated displayed from this zoom up
HarborZoom=100;harbors will be displayed from this zoom up

[Map1]
MapID=Attack_map
Position=0,0
Resolution=1024,768
MajorSqrs=4,3
MinorSqrs=5,5
PixPerUnit=50
ZoomLevels=1; meters per pixel; F6 attack map is always centered on your position!
InitialZoom=1; highest zoom only will make it useless for revealing position by accident
SymbolZoom=2;units are drawn as symbols from this zoom up
GroupsZoom=2;units are drawn in groups from this zoom up
Thanks mate, I will try It!:up:

[poor sailor]

I was tried your advice Georg and found your solution excellent for me! Many thanks!:up:

[poor sailor]

Well, now I'm starting with this great mod. I learned how to use the sextant, but how to use the sunset/rise table and how to calculate longitude, is there any formula to get this? Sorry, maybe is there in your manual Van, but I couldn't understand well I think.

edit: If you make a real example for calculation, maybe for case in your "QuickNav guide". Can you make me a explanation on that example? Is answer for my first question before editing this post about formula ->"Degrees West/East = (Game Sunrise/Set time – Almanac Sunrise/Set time) / 4" ? If yes, can you use the values on your example and put in this formula as I can to see a look for that calculation.

[kevtherev]

I was tried your advice Georg and found your solution excellent for me! Many thanks!:up:

I tried this also but it does not work for me, maybe I am doing something wrong. I do not however wish to do sextant navigation as for real, I only want to get rid of my own ship indications and try my hand at 'Dantenoc Navigation'. Here goes:-
I am running GWX 1.03 without the 'Real Navigation' mod installed. I have however used the 'no tail' mod
from Georg and also his advice on modifying the map.cfg data. I am still experiencing an indication of
'my own ship' in the form of a circle at all levels of map magnification. Is there any way that I can
get rid of this indication ?
http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/2515/map1ra5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/1200/map2fa6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/3375/map3xr5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
In the examples please ignore the 'planned route' as I am only using this as a trial for the Kiel canal
option !!! Would normally, without own ship indication, be doing the navigation myself.
Mods installed (jsgme) are:-
GWX - 16km Atnosphere
GWX - Capt America's Officer Icons
GWX - English Nav Map and Grid refs.
GWX - Lite harbor Traffic
GWX - Main Movie 'Das Boot'
GWX - No Medals on Crew
GWX - Reduce Positive Buoyancy
GWX - Lower DF antenna
TypeVII_open_hatch
Open_Hatch_peri
Course_tail_removed_from_GWX103

I am not an expert on mods and configs but I do not think that I have done anything wrong ?? Could anyone please help ?? :-?

[vanjast]

'my own ship' in the form of a circle at all levels of map magnification. Is there any way that I can get rid of this indication ?:-?

What you can do is browse through the game folders (usually the Menu one) and have a look for the image containing this circle. When you find this image, edit it with an image editor. As with most SH3 images this image will have 2 layers - Background and Mask. All you have to do is edit the mask layer by blanking/fill it out completely (eg: get rid of the image in this mask). This will 'mask' out the image completely.

If this image is part of an multi-image image (lots of images in one image), do the same to the mask layer but only over this particular section of the image.

That should do it.
:up:

[Georg_Unterberg]

Hi kevtherev,

you need the 3 transparent submarkers from vanjasts "Realnav" - mod.
I saw that you didn't install it, so I'll upload the files separately. Note: This will just make your sub-circle disappear.
To get all the other benefits from vanjast, like his excellent Lat/Lon Map and sextant, you'll need to install the full mod.


Hang on a moment.

edit: ok uploaded the 3 files you need. Please install with JSGME

http://files.filefront.com//;7629500;;/

[kevtherev]

Hi kevtherev,

you need the 3 transparent submarkers from vanjasts "Realnav" - mod.
I saw that you didn't install it, so I'll upload the files separately. Note: This will just make your sub-circle disappear.
To get all the other benefits from vanjast, like his excellent Lat/Lon Map and sextant, you'll need to install the full mod.


Hang on a moment.

edit: ok uploaded the 3 files you need. Please install with JSGME

http://files.filefront.com//;7629500;;/

Downloaded and installed via. JSGME, works a treat, now I am virtually 'blind'. Great job for me Georg, many, many thanks to you and others who have helped me with this prob. :up: :up:
Although my methods of navigation leave a lot to be desired as regards 'real nav' they suite me at the moment until I can get some understanding of 'celestial and sextant navigation'. Although the nav method I use is not quite 'real' I find that it has another added aspect to this wonderfull sim (SH3 and GWX). :)

[Georg_Unterberg]

Well, now I'm starting with this great mod. I learned how to use the sextant, but how to use the sunset/rise table and how to calculate longitude, is there any formula to get this? Sorry, maybe is there in your manual Van, but I couldn't understand well I think.
saw your question, but it's not so easy to explain - it will take a while :yep:
(anyone can jump in here and help or correct me)

IMHO the accuracy from sunrise/sunset spotting is not very good. And you only get longitude this way.
You still have to know latitude in some way and therefore you will need the sextant. To use vanjasts
suntables to solve for longitude you must know your latitude approximately to enter the table correctly.

by then the rule of thumb is: every 4min the sun moves 1° from east to west, every hour the sun moves 15°.

so an (maybe not so easy) example:

its 25/May/1943: you are at about 20° S Lat.
You want to know longitude, so you wait for sunrise. At 6:24 ship chrono you see this:

http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/5992/sunrisecq2.jpg

You note: I "estimate" sunrise at 6:24. Now enter vanjast's table to look for sunrise/set page of "Southern Latitudes ".
Look under line 25/may and column 20°S. Note the sunrise time you'll see 6:24 !

You are on spot on either meridian of 0° 15° 30°....... Now note the time difference between ship chrono and local time.
local time is 1 hour earlier, so you are exactly 15° W of greenwich.

Now imagine you saw the sunrise under same conditions at 6:32. Thats 8min later than table time.
So you'll have to add 2 more degrees to the west. Together with 15° W for 1h time difference (local-chrono) that's 17° W.


The hardest part in all this is: you'll always have to wait for the sun! :sunny:
And I get varying results, maybe it's the way the sun is modelled in SH3. I'm more or less 2min = 30' accurate, that's half a degree.

note: If you travel at e.g. 24° Lat you'll have to interpolate in the table between times for 20° and 30°.

[poor sailor]

Many thanks for your looking to help me to understand how to measure Longitude. Your example is very well and I understand much better now.:up:

[Notewire]

Ok, because I am king of the very simple question -

Do you mark the sun at the top of the sun, the middle of the sun, or the bottom of the sun?

I saw a comment about this in the thread but didn't quite understand.

Thanks,
Notewire.

[vanjast]

Notewire,
In real life the sunrise/set is when the upper rim of the sun just becomes/dissapears above/below the horizon.
The game sunrise/set times are set to when only half of the sun is visible on the horizon. The time taken from upper rim to complete sun is about 4-6 minutes depending on your latitude. The higher the latitudes the longer it takes as the sun travels at a much shallower angle to the horizon.

There is a slight difference in the Mods RL almanac compared to the game times. It can be as much as 4 minutes (1 Degree Longitude). Not a 'train-smash' but as long as you are aware of these conditions.

I have not had time to go over the whole lot as family and RL is on top of me, but will do when I have a break.
:up:

From the US Naval Observatory Website
Sunrise and sunset conventionally refer to the times when the upper edge of the disk of the Sun is on the horizon, considered unobstructed relative to the location of interest. Atmospheric conditions are assumed to be average, and the location is in a level region on the Earth's surface.

Moonrise and moonset times are computed for exactly the same circumstances as for sunrise and sunset. However, moonrise and moonset may occur at any time during a 24 hour period and, consequently, it is often possible for the Moon to be seen during daylight, and to have moonless nights. It is also possible that a moonrise or moonset does not occur relative to a specific place on a given date.
Civil twilight is defined to begin in the morning, and to end in the evening when the center of the Sun is geometrically 6 degrees below the horizon. This is the limit at which twilight illumination is sufficient, under good weather conditions, for terrestrial objects to be clearly distinguished; at the beginning of morning civil twilight, or end of evening civil twilight, the horizon is clearly defined and the brightest stars are visible under good atmospheric conditions in the absence of moonlight or other illumination. In the morning before the beginning of civil twilight and in the evening after the end of civil twilight, artificial illumination is normally required to carry on ordinary outdoor activities. Complete darkness, however, ends sometime prior to the beginning of morning civil twilight and begins sometime after the end of evening civil twilight.

Nautical twilight is defined to begin in the morning, and to end in the evening, when the center of the sun is geometrically 12 degrees below the horizon. At the beginning or end of nautical twilight, under good atmospheric conditions and in the absence of other illumination, general outlines of ground objects may be distinguishable, but detailed outdoor operations are not possible, and the horizon is indistinct.


Astronomical twilight is defined to begin in the morning, and to end in the evening when the center of the Sun is geometrically 18 degrees below the horizon. Before the beginning of astronomical twilight in the morning and after the end of astronomical twilight in the evening the Sun does not contribute to sky illumination; for a considerable interval after the beginning of morning twilight and before the end of evening twilight, sky illumination is so faint that it is practically imperceptible.

[Mav87th]

Does anyone of you have any experience with Real Navigation with SH4??

I cant seem to fit the game clock to anything.

fx. New mission build with boat parked outside Pearl Harbor close to a posission 20N 158W on June 1. 1944

Vanjast's Almanac says:

Sun Rise 05:20
Sun Set 18:35

An Almanac program says:

Sun Rise 05:52 @ 66deg true
Sun Set 19:08 @ 294 deg true

StarCalc says:

Sun Rise 05:52 @ 66deg true
Sun Set 19:08 @ 294 deg true

In the game the gameclock (called Base time, and i'd presume thats Pearl Harbor time equal to GMT -10) says:

Sun Rise (half disc visible) 04:52 @ 67 deg true
Sun Set (do.) 18:08 @ 295 deg true

Could it be that Summertime has anything to do with this...?

More weired is the moon phase - this one is way out of sync.
It should set at 02:32 @ 271 deg true, but it was in the game at 02:10 @ 268 deg true.

Could it be that its not the year 1944 that is used in SH??

[Notewire]

Notewire,
In real life the sunrise/set is when the upper rim of the sun just becomes/dissapears above/below the horizon.
The game sunrise/set times are set to when only half of the sun is visible on the horizon. The time taken from upper rim to complete sun is about 4-6 minutes depending on your latitude. The higher the latitudes the longer it takes as the sun travels at a much shallower angle to the horizon.

There is a slight difference in the Mods RL almanac compared to the game times. It can be as much as 4 minutes (1 Degree Longitude). Not a 'train-smash' but as long as you are aware of these conditions.

I have not had time to go over the whole lot as family and RL is on top of me, but will do when I have a break.
:up:


From the US Naval Observatory WebsiteSunrise and sunset conventionally refer to the times when the upper edge of the disk of the Sun is on the horizon, considered unobstructed relative to the location of interest. Atmospheric conditions are assumed to be average, and the location is in a level region on the Earth's surface.

Moonrise and moonset times are computed for exactly the same circumstances as for sunrise and sunset. However, moonrise and moonset may occur at any time during a 24 hour period and, consequently, it is often possible for the Moon to be seen during daylight, and to have moonless nights. It is also possible that a moonrise or moonset does not occur relative to a specific place on a given date.

Civil twilight is defined to begin in the morning, and to end in the evening when the center of the Sun is geometrically 6 degrees below the horizon. This is the limit at which twilight illumination is sufficient, under good weather conditions, for terrestrial objects to be clearly distinguished; at the beginning of morning civil twilight, or end of evening civil twilight, the horizon is clearly defined and the brightest stars are visible under good atmospheric conditions in the absence of moonlight or other illumination. In the morning before the beginning of civil twilight and in the evening after the end of civil twilight, artificial illumination is normally required to carry on ordinary outdoor activities. Complete darkness, however, ends sometime prior to the beginning of morning civil twilight and begins sometime after the end of evening civil twilight.

Nautical twilight is defined to begin in the morning, and to end in the evening, when the center of the sun is geometrically 12 degrees below the horizon. At the beginning or end of nautical twilight, under good atmospheric conditions and in the absence of other illumination, general outlines of ground objects may be distinguishable, but detailed outdoor operations are not possible, and the horizon is indistinct.


Astronomical twilight is defined to begin in the morning, and to end in the evening when the center of the Sun is geometrically 18 degrees below the horizon. Before the beginning of astronomical twilight in the morning and after the end of astronomical twilight in the evening the Sun does not contribute to sky illumination; for a considerable interval after the beginning of morning twilight and before the end of evening twilight, sky illumination is so faint that it is practically imperceptible.


Thanks Vanjast, as an Army guy IRL, we use BMNT and EMNT - (Nautical Twilight, as explained above) - I will start using the game's "half sun" navigation.

Thanks for your time,
Notewire.

[don1reed]

Hi Mav,

I've been using Omar Reis's Navigator pgm and Starpath's Nav pgm on a TI-86 for years. Recently, Mar 2005, with the birth of SH3 I also added StarCalc for gameplay. I never could get the Cel Nav to work on SH3 or even more recently, SH4.

I suppose a way around the "clock" issue in SH4 is to set dead in the water off a known landmark and goto TC and watch and stop the SUN as it makes it's way to Zenith, then make a Noon Latitude/Longitude sight, using your nav pgm to verify the your coordinates...At meridian passage.

Van's niffty nav pgm has opened the doors to find a sure-fire method of finding your fix in the ocean. It's a step in the right direction.

[Mav87th]

I think i might have the bugger, but it needs a little more investigation.

It seems that forces in the pacific used GMT -11 as a standard, and that corresponds with my initial tests of a "parked" boat outside PEAL HARBOR on June 1. 1944 for both Sun Rise and Set's.

Need to do more testing further from PEARL.

But the timing problems could be that one has to use GMT -11 all over the pacific...

[don1reed]

I'm currently in Time Zone H (Hotel (-8) GMT ), from Fremantle up through P.I. within the game...so far local time is correct local time. Subtracting 8 hrs. gives me correct GMT for navigation purposes.

[Mav87th]

One loose theory in the binner...:dead:

[poor sailor]

Maybe I'm something doing wrong but I have some strange situation on my first serious sailing:) .

On first picture I found Polaris star (Well, I think that It is:) )
http://img472.imageshack.us/img472/5609/shot1180727076ty7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

On second picture I started measures with sextant and found that is ~40 degree
http://img472.imageshack.us/img472/7263/shot1180727114cl8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

And on third picture is shown where is this value I found with sextant on map
http://img472.imageshack.us/img472/4569/shot1180727324io4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

What I'm doing wrong? I started my patrol in Kiel.

[mikaelanderlund]

I don't think it's polaris you have located. It's looks like Ursa Majoris.

Mikael

[vanjast]

Poor sailor, have a look at the NH starmap, The side of the 'bucket' points towards Polaris
http://www.vanjast.com/NavMod/UrsaMajor.jpg

From this pic it looks like you're on a higher res screen
AFAIK the sextant works only with the default 1024x768 resolution screen. The guys using other resolutions have to try this as my screen is 1024x768.

Van-o

[poor sailor]

I don't think it's polaris you have located. It's looks like Ursa Majoris.

Mikael
Yes, You have right, I make a mistake. Thanks.

@Vanjast
Also thanks for your answer, I will see what to do with that resolution, but on my 19" LCD display everything is better in higher resolution.

[poor sailor]

I'm just tried right now in 1024x768 resolution and didn't seen much difference (for sky and stars position). I'm start to thinking that maybe the atmosphere mod have a influence. Realnav mod is made and tested by vanjast with NYGM and that mod using 16KM atmosphere mod. I using 8KM mod as default in GWX. Maybe the problem lying there and high resolution is not problem.:hmm: Will testing It and with 16KM mod.

[poor sailor]

I really don't know what is the problem. I tried and 16KM mod and there is a little difference but the Polaris is still to high and don't know how to take a measure with sextant, van already said that sextant must be in bottom line on the horizont. Also tried in different resolutions. Maybe other users which use this mod with GWX may help. Sorry if I am little boring, but really love to have this mod to work properly in my game!

[poor sailor]

Here is another visual example for problem I have.

First picture what I see and how I see in 1024x768 resolution
http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/1276/sh3img1zc0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Second is position of Polaris but to high as You may see to take any measures with sextant.
http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/3578/sh3img2gx8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Still have no idea what to do. The pictures are taken from Kiel harbour.

[poor sailor]

Now, I think that I'm found what is the problem. Well I tried with NYGM mod and everything is as should for this mod. And test was in 1280x1024 res and in that resolution, Polaris star is measureable with sextant and much close then in pictures I posted taken from GWX. I think the problem is in angle of view or camera position I don't know but stars are much better looking in NYGM. I'm very sad about that because I really much like GWX. Don't know what to do. This time I not posted a pictures but if someone want I will do it, but for sure there is a difference between the two mods GWX and NYGM for the stars looking and their angle positions.

[poor sailor]

After the whole day of testing I finally found a combination of success. To have a properly work this mod in GWX you will need a file cameras.dat from NYGM. Everything then will be fine, now I have a reading of 54N for Latitude which is like should for Kiel. If someone want I may upload this file. Without that file the effect will be like I posted in previous pictures.
And after adding this file effect is much better situation with using sextant :up:
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/9820/polarishe6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
And for the end sorry if I have many posts in this thread, but I think that this discovery is worth a couple of maybe boring posts for reading.

[mikaelanderlund]

Hi poor sailer,

I have had the same problem as you and has not been able to use the sextant:cry: . Please send me the NYGM cameras file. Are you using both the 1280x1024 res and NYGM cameras.dat file?

Mikael

[poor sailor]

Hi poor sailer,

I have had the same problem as you and has not been able to use the sextant:cry: . Please send me the NYGM cameras file. Are you using both the 1280x1024 res and NYGM cameras.dat file?

Mikael
Here you go http://files.filefront.com/GWX_Camera_Realnav_mod7z/;7674774;/fileinfo.html I tried this with 1024x768 but think that's will work and in 1280x1024.:up:
I will try and post the results.

EDIT: Just checked and work like a charm in 1280x1024 resolution. Definitive, the resolution is not the problem, the problem is position of camera as I said before.

[mikaelanderlund]

The Polaris star is measureable with sextant at the gun and AA position using the GWX:hmm: . This confirm the problem is in angle of view of camera position.

Mikael

[poor sailor]

The Polaris star is measureable with sextant at the gun and AA position using the GWX:hmm: . This confirm the problem is in angle of view of camera position.

Mikael
Have you tried with file I uploaded?

[vanjast]

I'll remove NYGM and load GWX and see what I can do..
I'm only managing to get on my box an hour or two per night lately. :cry:

:up:

[Georg_Unterberg]

hi poor sailor,

I tried your cameras.dat with GWX 1.03 and 1280x1024 resolution. It really looks like the file "cameras.dat" always was the problem and not the resolution.

If using your NYGM file I can now see the sky up to 60° and am able to use vanjasts 1024 sextant with 60° scale. With GWX cameras.dat, the view is limited to 45° and you'll have to use the 1280 sextant to take correct angle shots.

Now there is one question: What will happen to GWX users, if using NYGM cameras.dat file?? I think there may be some features who will not work anymore??



Hi poor sailer,

I have had the same problem as you and has not been able to use the sextant:cry: . Please send me the NYGM cameras file. Are you using both the 1280x1024 res and NYGM cameras.dat file?

Mikael Here you go http://files.filefront.com/GWX_Camera_Realnav_mod7z/;7674774;/fileinfo.html I tried this with 1024x768 but think that's will work and in 1280x1024.:up:
I will try and post the results.

EDIT: Just checked and work like a charm in 1280x1024 resolution. Definitive, the resolution is not the problem, the problem is position of camera as I said before.

[poor sailor]

hi poor sailor,

I tried your cameras.dat with GWX 1.03 and 1280x1024 resolution. It really looks like the file "cameras.dat" always was the problem and not the resolution.

If using your NYGM file I can now see the sky up to 60° and am able to use vanjasts 1024 sextant with 60° scale. With GWX cameras.dat, the view is limited to 45° and you'll have to use the 1280 sextant to take correct angle shots.

Now there is one question: What will happen to GWX users, if using NYGM cameras.dat file?? I think there may be some features who will not work anymore??

Interesting question but I think that this file is only for camera position and angle of view, other things will work as should. You have sensors.dat and other files which are for spotting the enemy for example if you mean about that. But someone may confirm It, I will ask someone from GWX team.

[Alex]

@ Vanjast : please, update the first post of the thread :p then it will be easier to know the file(s) we have to download. ;)

[mikaelanderlund]

hi poor sailor,

I tried your cameras.dat with GWX 1.03 and 1280x1024 resolution. It really looks like the file "cameras.dat" always was the problem and not the resolution.

If using your NYGM file I can now see the sky up to 60° and am able to use vanjasts 1024 sextant with 60° scale. With GWX cameras.dat, the view is limited to 45° and you'll have to use the 1280 sextant to take correct angle shots.

Now there is one question: What will happen to GWX users, if using NYGM cameras.dat file?? I think there may be some features who will not work anymore??

Interesting question but I think that this file is only for camera position and angle of view, other things will work as should. You have sensors.dat and other files which are for spotting the enemy for example if you mean about that. But someone may confirm It, I will ask someone from GWX team.

I'm quite sure it will affect the rolling in GWX.

Mikael

[Hadrys]

Yeah, this is real deal! I was always hoping for some lost at sea, off course etc challenges and now it's here! Great job!

I must say that I don't get that celestial nav yet. First of all that camera fix didn't changed anything. I'm using GWX 1.03 and both bridge and flak cameras are the same with or w/o that fix and give me the same reading of 53 (I'm about 170 km WNW from Wilhelmshaven and map shows it should be around 54,50N). If I subtract 1 degree that would be a total nonsense (do I always subtract?).

Another thing is that my stopwatch is broken (that one from gwx). The background image is to much to the right. I'll try to fix it. Also you could include tail fix in that compilation.

What about the clock? I've read both topics and not sure. Is it gmt and local time is corrupt after reloading the game? I have no idea how to find my longitude. The light switched at 4.56 and half of the sun was over the horizon. That doesn't fit anyhow to that almanac... Is this the only method? And why in that almanac are latitudes not longitudes?? I've started to read that big pdf about navigation and I'm really into learning that stuff! I can't imagine precise target finding right now but that should be a lot of fun with 100% realism.

Please give me a clue how to find myself because only from my track record I'll soon get lost :)

[Hadrys]

Yeah just probably figured out why we have problems with longitude...

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=116837 Read post #15 :down:

[klekot93]

Now, I think that I'm found what is the problem. Well I tried with NYGM mod and everything is as should for this mod. And test was in 1280x1024 res and in that resolution, Polaris star is measureable with sextant and much close then in pictures I posted taken from GWX. I think the problem is in angle of view or camera position I don't know but stars are much better looking in NYGM. I'm very sad about that because I really much like GWX. Don't know what to do. This time I not posted a pictures but if someone want I will do it, but for sure there is a difference between the two mods GWX and NYGM for the stars looking and their angle positions.

Agreed. Poor Sailor's right. I had the same problem until I followed his instructions. When I was playing on "pure" GWX 2.1(+ a few MODs like custom skins etc. so that's no matter...:up:) I've got a "hole":o:smug::lol: between +/- 40° and 70°(so first I was thinking that this sextant is a piece of crap:oops:). Now everything is OK and the sky at night is more focus.

I must say that I don't get that celestial nav yet. First of all that camera fix didn't changed anything. I'm using GWX 1.03 and both bridge and flak cameras are the same with or w/o that fix and give me the same reading of 53 (I'm about 170 km WNW from Wilhelmshaven and map shows it should be around 54,50N). If I subtract 1 degree that would be a total nonsense (do I always subtract?).

You need to remember that Celestial Navigation and all that stuff are not the GPS(though is not ideal either:)).

[asanovic7]

That link is not working, I would like to compare those two files to see what is that angle that is messing things up in gwx.
Anyways, good to see this thread alive.
As I always say a combo between olc and this mod would be smashing..

[klekot93]

That link is not working, I would like to compare those two files to see what is that angle that is messing things up in gwx.
Anyways, good to see this thread alive.
As I always say a combo between olc and this mod would be smashing..
That's true. I'm afraid that You need to download the (full)NYGM 2.5 Mod like me or if you want just that single file, PM me and I'll send it on your e-mail.;)

[klekot93]

BTW:
If someone's using the sextant and 6 Dials - Simfeeling Mod then know that if you activate the 6 dials mod the sextant vanish(at least at me:hmm:). I know how to fix it:

1. Activate the Real Nav Mod;
2. Then Activate the 6 Dials Mod;
3. Now you need to open the menu_1024_768.ini file in ...\sh3\data\menu and find:

[G3F I320]
Name=New val
Type=1031;Stat bmp array
ItemID=0x3F1F0003
ParentID=0x3F1F0000
Pos=154,-19,40,304
Color=0x969696C8
Materials=1
Display=5;Linear&rotation
Mat 0=data/menu/gui/layout/Zeiger260.tga
Crop 0=0,0,1,1
MatFlags=0x29
TexFmt=0x9
Drag=false
BmpState=1
NeedFocus=true
SelOne=false
IdGroup=0
StatesColors=0xFFFFFFFF, 0xFFFFFFFF, 0xFFFFFFFF, 0xFFFFFFFF

and replacy it by

[G3F I320]
Name=Dial
Type=1031;Stat bmp array
ItemID=0x3FF00007
ParentID=0x3F000000
;Pos=1003,750,194,230 ;560,970,194,230
Pos=1003,770,150,770 ;560,970,194,230
Materials=1
Display=0;No stretch
Mat 0=data/menu/gui/KF_SextantX.tga
;Crop 0=0,0.1015625,0.2421875,0.8984375
Crop 0=0,0,1.0,1.0
MatFlags=0x29
TexFmt=0x9
Drag=true
BmpState=1
NeedFocus=true
SelOne=true
IdGroup=0
StatesColors=0xFFFFFFFF, 0xFFFFFFFF, 0xFFFFFFFF, 0xFFFFFFFF

from menu_1024_768(but the REAL NAV MOD!!)

Now, everything should be OK(in my case it DOESN'T delete any 6 dials mod utliliy and of course and a "drag'n'drop" sextant)

Cheers, Klekot93

[klekot93]

Here's the link to my FileFont page: http://hosted.filefront.com/klekot93/ .
You can find there a NYGM_2.5_Cameras.dat file(it will fix the angles of the views and now you'll can measure the latitude of your position using a sextant).

And the direct link:
http://files.filefront.com/NYGM+25+Camerasdatrar/;11076932;/fileinfo.html

[asanovic7]

http://rapidshare.com/files/130387537/Cameras.dat.html

not shure if it works.. :rotfl: I think it works in gwx and nygm, both mods use same files, I think

[wdq4587]

I like the Real Navigation idea but as a normal game player I dislike navigate all times by myself so I will not try this mod :(

I have played the B17 game in DOS age. In this game, you need correct your position after fly long away by looking at the ground mark. I like this way although we all know we can not hope it in SH3, SH4 and may be more.

SH3 is the most complete and the best simulation game I ever see, only a few things I think not realistic enough (only in player tactics meaning):

1. Can not control diving rudder and can not control blown how much water (only useful in some situation like DD stay above your head)
2. No navigation error and device.
3. Only a few type of cargo (what I mean is you always can know the ship height and length, but in real life you may need other way to get target speed,AOB,range without knowing that)
4. No hedgehog