Beautiful Reflections and water by accident

[Stager00]

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g268/stager00/SH3Img14-5-2007_12-1.jpgWas I was experimenting by copying the MISC folder from SH4 into SH3 and the two Scene.dat and Scene.sim files as well. The result was georgious reflections and water. Just in case someone wants to pursue which files caused this and go further.



http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g268/stager00/SH3Img14-5-2007_12.jpg

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g268/stager00/SH3Img14-5-2007_12.jpg

[Avatar]

You know, just thinking here...
I wonder if some, if not all, files can be interchanged between sh3 and sh4? Like the water reflections perhaps the environmental effects as well. The two sims are very similar in that respect. Someone posted a post in SH4 community that made the journey from the pacific to wilhelmshaven and the music was playing along side the pier, although by a ghost band.
Very interesting and thought provoking post.

[ReallyDedPoet]

Looks good:up:

Someone should explore this more.

RDP

[Sulikate]

Hey, that's awesome! I love the reflections in SHIV and that would be a great feature to be included in SHIII too:yep: I'm eager to hear more about it.

[Stager00]

I also copied the shaders folder over...but I doubt that had much to do with it as there likely are no calls for that file in SH3.

[ReallyDedPoet]

Can you provide a little more detail on what you did:roll:? You mention it above, just need a little more.

RDP

[Stager00]

I copied the data/misc folder from SH4 over to the data/misc folder of SH3..and then the Scene.dat, scene.sim, and scene.dsd over to the data folder as well.

Then copied the SH$ "shaders" folder under data to SH3 data(although I doubt that had much to do with it).

[ReallyDedPoet]

Thanks:up: I like this feature in SH4, be nice to have transparent water in SH3, that I am sure would be more difficult.

RDP

[Jimbuna]

Do you have an underwater screenshot ? :hmm:

[DanBiddle]

That does look rather good indeed :D An underwater shot would be great!

Cheers,

Dan

[Stager00]

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g268/stager00/SH3Img14-5-2007_14-4.jpg

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g268/stager00/SH3Img14-5-2007_14-3.jpg

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g268/stager00/SH3Img14-5-2007_14-2.jpg

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g268/stager00/SH3Img14-5-2007_14-1.jpg

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g268/stager00/SH3Img14-5-2007_14.jpg

[Sulikate]

Looking good:arrgh!: Is it also possible to add refraction (like SHIV's)?

ps: it is pretty clear in the last screenshot that the reflection uses a simplified version of the boat's model: would it be possible to modify it?

[KrvKpt. Falke]

But SH3 uses tgas and SH4 - dds files. If you didnt convert dds to tgas then it means:
1. SH3 likes dds too;
2. SH3 didnt used dds files you paste there and all those changes that are visible on your screenshots are made by sh4s scene files.

But if SH3 can use dds then its great cause it could mean faster loading times!

Edit: Just tried that and water reflections are from scene files for sure.

[Stager00]

There are several .tga's in the misc folder of SH4...."caustics...Senin...Wake back...wake front..torp"

[KrvKpt. Falke]

its easy to find out if SH3 is using dds: take a look at nori00 and nori01.dds - its clouds (i think;) - copy it to SH3 misc folder and run the game and load some mission with cloudy weather. You can also convert those two files to tga and see if it makes a difference in game...

[Stary Wuj]

:hmm:

:rock:

Stary Wuj

[Paajtor]

Looks neat...allthought I get nice relections in SH3 GWX too.:D
Not sure, if I see that many changes.

How about legal issues?
Like, using SH4 files to mod SH3...does it mean, that we all need to have SH4, to be on the safe side?

I wasn't planning that, for now.

[Stager00]

GWX produces pretty reflections....just not nearly as "reflective"....nor does the sky reflect so accurately. Within the game....theres a quite noticable difference.


Not sure about legal issues...as I have no intention to offer any downloads. Just simply to present a cosmetic change to get people snooping on what else is compatable. The reflections from SH4 are truely superior. Give it a shot.

[Spytrx]

I looks great, no doubt about it - though didn't the game crash after a while? I tried something similar a while back (experimenting with various dds) and though the game would accept the changes at the begining it would CtD within the first 15 minuted of gameplay...:88)

[Stager00]

Havent had any crashes yet...but havent had much playing time yet either. Gonna experiment alot more this evening.

[Spytrx]

hmm, maybe it is possible after all to get those graphics going :hmm:


thanks for sharing - I am going to try to follow my previous avenue of thought as well, this time on a brand new install of SH3 (maybe there was a conflict with some left-over code)

[Reece]

This is a great find,:yep: I might have to re-install SHIV just to get the files needed, there should be no probs with UBI if we are only telling people with SHIV what to do!:up:
Thanks, & keep experimenting.:D

[GoldenRivet]

You know, just thinking here...
I wonder if some, if not all, files can be interchanged between sh3 and sh4? Like the water reflections perhaps the environmental effects as well. The two sims are very similar in that respect. Someone posted a post in SH4 community that made the journey from the pacific to wilhelmshaven and the music was playing along side the pier, although by a ghost band.
Very interesting and thought provoking post.

yep i thought so to when i made that post...

but i got flamed for "poking fun at SH4" :roll: when in fact i was trying to point out exactly how similar the two sims are... interchangability of files is something to look into.

If anything will influence me to play SH4 it will be the day that someone mods sh4 into SH3PLUS bringing things back to the atlantic :rock:

[Reece]

My machine is just that bit too old for SHIV, but if some of the effects could be modded to SHIII, I'm sure there wouldn't be a huge difference in fraps, IMO it would be most excellent!!:yep:

[ReallyDedPoet]

Again, nice find here:yep: Will try some of this out tonight.

RDP

[Hitman]

Sometimes the most important findings are done out of pure luck:up: Thanks for taking your time to share:up:

I'm moving the topic to the SH3 mods forum as it will be more appropiate there and more modders might see it.:yep:

[Spytrx]

Tried it again on a clean install of vanilla with 1.04b patch and it works fine now - all that needs to be explored is which files will work and which won't and what side effects all this has...


on the matter of incorporating it into a mod - that's a no-no. You can make one for yourself of course if you have both versions of the game, but you can't publish them (for now anyway) because of the ToS and Copyright issues...

[Reece]

all that needs to be explored is which files will work and which won't and what side effects all this has...
Thats great Spytrx, I assume you will let us know the relevent files to use after you've finished testing?:yep:
Thanks!

[Spytrx]

well, I can tell you that the damage textures won't work with SH3 right now :) that is what I am concentrating on at the moment since I really don't like any of the damage mods out there (and the one in SH4 looks so good)

[Reece]

Haven't heard from you Stager, any news?:D

[Stager00]

Got real busy after I made this post(real life)...but I look forward to doing some more test on this. Hopefully today. Wondering what else can be borrowed from 4.

[ReallyDedPoet]

Keep it up:up:

RDP

[Reece]

Ok, I have been playing around as well, I hope you don't mind Stager, I figure the more testers the better!:yep:
I put the scene files in & the misc files to produce as yours:
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/Reecehk/WithEnvColors2.jpg
However I noticed that the sky vortex is back & the view of the sea horizon is more pronounced than with SHIII:
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/Reecehk/Seaoverdistance.jpg
I tried with the Env folder but the Skycolor files cause a CTD, however with the EnvColor files this:
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/Reecehk/WithEnvColors1.jpg
The sea horizon texture is much better but overall a little foggy, certainly a way to go yet though!. Can anyone edit the scene.dat file to fix the vortex (sky dome), was origanally done by Manuel Ortega, or was it Seeadler, I don't know if they are around anymore, anyone with ideas?:D
Just as a comparison this is stock:
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/Reecehk/StockSH3.jpg

Note:
I must stress Stager that I'm not trying to take over, just trying to pitch in and help, this certainly has potential though!:up:

[alamwuhk2a]

I tried this too, thx, great discovery:up: However, when I test it in 15m/s wind speed, the sea is as rough as hell! Not only my poor little VII, the DD is also being swing up and downs, even the whole keel is above the surface:o

[Reece]

Yes I noticed that it is a little choppier but there is already a sea height adjustment mod in SHIII so this could probably be fixed, if I'm not mistaken it is a selection within SH3 Commander, either way not a big problem.;)
Interesting that 2 of the skycolor files are similar in either versions, around 1 meg, but the SkyColors_Atl.dat file in SHIV is only 26k, I would say this is the cause of the CTD, wonder why the huge size difference!:-?

[JCWolf]

You can make an experiment,
lets say,
take the 16 kms mod and make the chages over there,
not on the game itself,

Add the reflections on the 16/8 kms athmosfere mod
and then install it by jsgme, and see what happends...:hmm:

[Reece]

Mine is actually set up for 8k using Mahkimovs light night, It would take a while to dig up the 16k version (was this a GWX option), do you have any idea of what SHIV is (8k or 16k) I can't run it on my system, too old like me!!!:lol: Would you be willing to give it a go JC?:) I was going to pull apart the misc folder to work out what SHIV files are actually used.:yep:
Interesting to find that SHIII will use the dds files, though this is probably programed in the scene.dat file.:-?

Edit: Just looked and it's 1am, So goodnight all!

[Notewire]

Wow, what a neat deal. Combining the Graphics portions of SH4 with the very best of GWX realism - doesn't get much better.

Does anybody know if the sea floor can be ported in from SH4? I kinda like seeing some plants down there?

Good Work guys,
Notewire

[Stager00]

By all means....please experiment!! That's why I posted this.
The more poking around everyone does..the more we'll all learn.

[KrvKpt. Falke]

Does anybody know if the sea floor can be ported in from SH4? I kinda like seeing some plants down there?

I doubt it. You can use sand02.dds (after converting it to tga) which is the sea floor texture, but all the plants and rocks in SH4 are 3d objects and - it seems - a new "feature" that was added to the game engine by developers (i can be wrong - im no expert). But SDK in hands of skillful modder can do that...i think ;)

[Reece]

Have you found anything new Stager, I tried with GWX 16k SkyColors:
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/Reecehk/WithGWX16kSkyColors.jpg
Kinda Spooky!:roll:
The biggest problem is the Vortex:
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/Reecehk/Vortex.jpg
We have to use the Scene.dat file from SHIV or we do not get the new effects and unfortunately that is where thr Vortex problem is!
I will put up a new post for this problem, hopefully someone will be able to fix it.:yep:

[Reece]

More testing is bringing out more bugs, this is still in the scene.dat file:
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/Reecehk/AnotherScenedatproblem.jpg
This isn't bad using the SH4 Env Colors only:
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/Reecehk/WithSH4Envonly.jpg
More experimenting is required.:yep:

[Reece]

I've come to the conclusion that there are too many problems with the SHIV Scene.dat file, the best thing would be to edit the SHIII version to make use of the SHIV misc dds files, not a job I can do, I don't even know the tool used to edit this (dat) type of file, and I don't mean the tweaking tool.:cry:

[JCWolf]

Gona pick mike shaker
and make a nice coktail...:rock:


I will make some testing and Exper, 2
guys ....:yep:

There is a lot from SH4 that will be very well
used in SHIII as it will improve the game a lot
visualy...

The file structure is equal....
and the file type is a very adaptablething
in what it coucerns to graphics....

So is a matter of testings..:up:

[Kpt. Lehmann]

There is a lot from SH4 that will be very well
used in SHIII as it will improve the game a lot
visualy...

The file structure is equal....
and the file type is a very adaptablething
in what it coucerns to graphics....

So is a matter of testings..:up:

Possibly that is correct.

Just speaking for the GWX mod effort though... we will not be using SH4 files, to prevent legal concerns.

Individuals who own both copies and perform these changes for their own personal installations, I think would be safe enough.

[Reece]

Just speaking for the GWX mod effort though... we will not be using SH4 files, to prevent legal concerns.

Individuals who own both copies and perform these changes for their own personal installations, I think would be safe enough.
Obviously correct Kpt, this is purely for those with both versions, once things have been worked out (if possable or viable) will produce a set of guidelines for others with both versions to follow.:yep:

I will make some testing and Exper, 2
guys ....:yep:
Excellent JCW, I have tried a lot of things & come to the conclusion that editing SHIII's scene.dat file to include the new features/files used in SHIV's Misc folder would be the way to go. Everyone seems to be a little secretive about the program used to edit this file, mind you it's probably out of my league anyway!!:lol:
Eager to hear about your findings.:yep:

Edit: I forgot to mention that renaming the original SHIII Misc folder produces a different result to useing mod enabler & copying over the top.

[CaptainNemo12]

These waters look beautiful!!!:rock:

[Webster]

Reece

Edit: I forgot to mention that renaming the original SHIII Misc folder produces a different result to useing mod enabler & copying over the top.[/quote]


so does it work both ways and which way gives you the best result?

[Jmack]

this is very interesting stuff ... opens allot of possibilities

[Reece]

@Webster, try it and see, just copying over the top SHIII will still use, by preference, the SHII tga files. To get the SHIV water I think only requires a few SHIV Misc files, but at this stage unless we can get the scene.dat edited to suit SHIII then I think it's a lost cause.:cry: Can anyone tell me where to get the dat file editor, what do people like Seeadler use to edit this file, surely not just a hex editor & guess work!!:-? Wish I could get a hold of Kashmir!:yep:

[Reece]

What I did was to use minitweaker to get SHIV's scene.dat settings & then set SHIII's to the same, this ended up with almost identical to SHIV's water etc without any of their files, no vortex problem, however it also showed up the errors with wave height, "boats appearing to go over land" etc, all we have to do now is extract the relevent settings or even do the reversal to the SHIV's scene.dat (except would still have the vortex problem).:D
Some snapshots:

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/Reecehk/SHIIItweakedtoSHIVvalues1.jpg

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/Reecehk/SHIIItweakedtoSHIVvalues2.jpg

Same again with different EnvColors, (still SHIII):
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/Reecehk/SHIIItweakedtoSHIVvalues3.jpg

All in All getting somewhere!:up:

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Based on one of your previous posts... I'm not sure how the sky vortex bug returned if you are using a Scene.dat file from GWX.

This also suggests that the moon reflection on the water would again be removed.

Just sounds like a stock Scene.dat file is in use is all.

Also, if you use the Env .dat files from GWX you should also be able to retain the proper sun reflection on the water.

Now, tweaker settings/adjustments inspired by SH4... sans direct importation of SH4 files... does sound promising.

I hope that helps.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

PS: Something to bear in mind... if rough water is too reflective... it can look plasticky. Stormy water shouldn't be very reflective at all.

If turned into a mod... will need to produce 8km and 16km IMHO.

[Reece]

In post #51 I did say The Scene.dat file was SHIII & that it doesn't have the Vortex problem only the SHIV version did, the modified one is an 8k version, I'm sure it is GWX but I believe the result would be the same (I will edit that version but it does take time & post results).:D
The main thing is to get a base version going first!
Still a long way & JCW is testing as well, but have climbed another rung on the ladder.:yep:

[Kpt. Lehmann]

In post #51 I did say The Scene.dat file was SHIII & that it doesn't have the Vortex problem only the SHIV version did, the modified one is an 8k version but I'm sure it is GWX but I'm sure the result would be the same (I will edit that version but it does take time & post results).:D
The main thing is to get a base version going first!
Still a long way & JCW is testing as well, but have climbed another rung on the ladder.:yep:

...but doesn't everyone want it all right now????? (j/k):lol:

Just tossing my two cents in.

[Letum]

Intresting work guys! :up:

[Reece]

This is the standard 8k GWX scene.dat edited with the standard tweak file (do not have the GWX version):
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/Reecehk/GWXtweakedtoSHIVvalues1.jpg

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/Reecehk/GWXtweakedtoSHIVvalues2.jpg
More testing has to be done in different weather conditions.:yep:
It probably boils down to taste & although I could do a better job (I feel) with the SHIV version I am stuck with the Vortex problem & legal concerns as Kpt L pointed out.:-?

[Reece]

Some more, nice white caps:
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/Reecehk/SHIIItweakedtoSHIVvalues5.jpg

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/Reecehk/SHIIItweakedtoSHIVvalues4.jpg

Back to testing, if anyone is interested in trying this out, let me know.:yep:

[CapZap1970]

Hello Reece:
I have been reading this thread since the day it started, and I must say I really like the outcome of your testings. :up:
I would like to give it a try, but I am affraid I don't know how to do it. If you could point me in the right direction, perhaps? Is it possible to have a link to download it?
Thanks a lot and hope to hear from you soon.
CapZap

[Sulikate]

This is coming out great! Keep it up:arrgh!:

[Alex]

Back to testing, if anyone is interested in trying this out, let me know.:yep:

I'll be happy to test it, mate ! :D

[Adriatico]

Stunning visuals Reece... this is "thread of the year" by all means! Simulation dreams are coming true!
Could you PLEASE present, step by step, what have you done (tweaker? file mix&format? versions/modes...?) to achieve this graphics level?

We are "more than willing" to further test options of SH3/4, but we should fully understand the present achieved level,... as a starting point.
Could somebody present "read me" for such a beauty?
(Order/format/tweaker/mod...etc...in a clear presentation)

[Stager00]

Outstanding research guys! I had hoped people would embrace this and look further down the road. Good work everyone!

It's looking great!

[ReM]

It does look great....

All the visual enhancements of this 'other sim' into SH III.

It is becoming even better, a couple of years after its release.....

:rock:

[Reece]

Hi, unfortunately I have to go down to the big smoke & wont be able to upload anything for several hours, I just got a notice that my PM box was full so I've cleaned it up a bit & can now recieve PM's again.:yep:
Outstanding research guys! I had hoped people would embrace this and look further down the road. Good work everyone!

It's looking great! You started the ball Stager, many thanks for your find!:up:
Cheers.

[Madox58]

I have not looked deep into the SH4 files but,
I did dig somewhat the day after it came out.

Here is what I see:

There ARE somethings we can adjust that will improve SH3.

There ARE a whole lot of clues as to how to do things abit differently,
that will work in Sh3.

We have to look at several areas, being:

Is it Vanilla we are adjusting?
Or GWX?

(I am very adapted to Vanilla but not GWX,
so let's keep that in mind)

Vanilla is very easy to adjust for me as I know what does what.
GWX has so many changes that I am not schooled in. So to speak.

Another issue is the tweak files.
They truely only touch on what they were written to find.
You can not fix the vortex issue with standard tweak files.
A proper tweak file might allow this but it requires hex edit skills
just to be able to know what to point the tweak files to.

Remember, the tweak files were written for SH3, and as such,
did not take into account any new additions to file
being tweaked!

So you are most LIKELY not getting the full picture by
depending on this approach.

Not trying to be the bearer of bad news here,
just don't want to see you guys give up!!

[GoldenEagle8]

Hmm, it does look really good, but does anyone know how to fix the problem where it does not render as far as you can see?

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n126/GoldenEagle8/SH3Img14-5-2007_19-1.jpg

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n126/GoldenEagle8/SH3Img14-5-2007_19.jpg

[dcb]

Hmm, it does look really good, but does anyone know how to fix the problem where it does not render as far as you can see?

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n126/GoldenEagle8/SH3Img14-5-2007_19.jpg

The problem comes to the rendering distance in scene.dat. The game displays the ocean as a grid of cells. Editing scene.dat with the minitweaker, I found that under WaveState 1 to 4, the first lines x=... y=... z=... are actually the size of the "ocean cell" displayed by the game. In the GWX version of scene.dat, x and y are set to 5, meaning the cell is rather wide and we cannot see its edges. In SH4 scene.dat, under Wave State 1, X=0.55, Y=0.7, meaning the cell is so small that its limits are clearly visible. The problem is if you increase the size of the cell, you get rid of the waves. I think there is a preset number of waves per cell and if you increase the cell, the waves flatten and stretch, so that to cover the whole area. I still have to find how to increase the number of waves per cell, so that to have still perceivable waves in a larger cell. I also don't know how to make the game render what it is beyond the current cell, i.e. the neighbouring ocean cells.

[kakemann]

If this will work I'll consider to put away Silent Hunter 4 to play number 3 again. It looks awesome!

[Reece]

I am seeking permission to release a modded GWX version of the scene.dat file.:yep:
I am also waiting for permission from others to use their files in an environment mod.

To those doing tests the most important thing is to keep all wave state (X, Y & Z) variables set to original SHIII version!:yep:
Cheers.

Edit: Just read your post dcb!:up:

[Myxale]

Wow, keep pushing it guys. Cant wait to get back home to do the voodoo myself.:rock:
There will be a second dawn for SH3:up:

[Reece]

I'm going out on a limb here posting a download before all persons credited with various included mods have been contacted, some have & replied, some I cannot find & others I haven't recieved confirmation from, If there is any problems please contact me, the last thing I want to do is step on toes!:oops:
Credits & Special thanks to:
Ailantd.
Kriller.
Marhkimov.
Sale999.
Seeadler.
Sergbuto.
Stager00.
Anyone else I may have forgotten.

This is a beta version of a combined environment mod & should work with most supermods & stock, it is JSGME ready & readme supplied with instructions & Credits.
If there is any problems just uninstall, also please experiment with minitweaker & post any findings, this really is a comunity mod & the main reason for this mod is for those who don't like experimenting but want to give it a go!:yep:
Cheers.
Download:
http://files.filefront.com/New_SHIII_Environment_v1rar/;7557854;/fileinfo.html

Edit: Forgot to mention This is an 8k environment version.

[Dowly]

Well... let's give it a try then. :up:

[nikbear]

would this conflict with sobers 3D wave mod?

[Jimbuna]

Was going to give it a spin till I saw the edit Edit: Forgot to mention This is an 8k environment version. :o

I play 16km :damn:

[dcb]

To those doing tests the most important thing is to keep all wave state (X, Y & Z) variables set to original SHIII version

Reece, I am trying to mod the file so that to get the 16k version of scene.dat, starting from the GWX file. You have read my post, so you are aware of the problems I encountered.
Could you please explain how you were able to bypass this gridlock: keeping x and y = 5 and still having waves in windspeed 1? Or, the other way round, to make the game render the neighbouring cells of the grid?
Or, if none of these was the case, what exactly have you made to mod the file?
Thx in advance.

[Adriatico]

Wellcome to cinema:
http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/9154/adriatico16no7.jpg

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/5433/adriatico13yg7.jpg

http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/9545/adriatico14wq5.jpg

http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/3741/adriatico12dt4.jpg


http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/2175/adriatico11ci0.jpg

[Jimbuna]

Cool shpts...looks like the boat is skating on ice :rock: :up:

[poor sailor]

Well, I'm just tried this mod and then switch back to GWX standard water. The reason for that is because I think that some things like moonlight reflections for example are like in old TGW (I think that the GWX team did the great job and fixed many things which came from old TGW), and water have too many reflexive effects for my taste, especially in harbours. But anyway interesting and promising mod, keep up the work on it, I'll try another future version of this mod.:up:

[Adriatico]

I grew up on sea, and sea surface can not be too reflective, it is reflective by itself... especially on a calm sunny day.
But generraly, I liked even more the look of vaves and clouds (Bismarck single mission).
I respect your opinion, but be avare:
- that we played one old surface for years and months in this game... and our eye takes it as normal and common...
If one plays these new settings for a month (and set gradually visual perception) the old surface would look "a bit artificial"...

Keep in mind that this is "beta"... maybe even "pre beta" due to impatience of us supporters... Give them three months to work as a team...
I think there is no way back from this point!

[poor sailor]

I grew up on sea, and sea surface can not be too reflective, it is reflective by itself... especially on a calm sunny day.
But generraly, I liked even more the look of vaves and clouds (Bismarck single mission).
I respect your opinion, but be avare:
- that we played one old surface for years and months in this game... and our eye takes it as normal and common...
If one plays these new settings for a month (and set gradually visual perception) the old surface would look "a bit artificial"...

Keep in mind that this is "beta"... maybe even "pre beta" due to impatience of us supporters... Give them three months to work as a team...
I think there is no way back from this point!
Maybe you haven't read my post carefuly. I said that the moon effects on water surface is like in previous "The Grey Wolves" mod, probably something is broke the original GWX moon effect, maybe in scenes.dat file, and for water probably you have right about the reflection if you said that you grow up on sea, I respect your opinion. And my last sentence in my previous post was "But anyway interesting and promising mod, keep up the work on it, I'll try another future version of this mod.":up:

[poor sailor]

I made some picture what I mean in my previous posts, don't wanna sound like a criticism but just my opinion.

For the first I think that a shadow in water to big for that distance
http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/7034/94195589es8.th.jpg (http://img260.imageshack.us/my.php?image=94195589es8.jpg)

Second, perfectly seen clouds shadow on water
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/7128/18825863pn9.th.jpg (http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=18825863pn9.jpg)

Third, I think that shadow of that side of wall is not real in water because of this two house which are in the almost same height as subpen.
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/8664/71665740ha8.th.jpg (http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=71665740ha8.jpg)

And finally the moon, which have a reflection I don't like
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/3503/87570968vp6.th.jpg (http://img508.imageshack.us/my.php?image=87570968vp6.jpg)

And the last is the picture from originaly GWX reflection of moon which is much real to me
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/6910/52667774dv0.th.jpg (http://img508.imageshack.us/my.php?image=52667774dv0.jpg)

As I said I would like to see the future versions of this mod and maybe with some corrected things. Keep up the good work!:up:

All the pictures are made in 1280x1024 resolution (SP2 res fix)

[Adriatico]

Believe me, one thing delighted me...
I've tried many mods and combos, but i never had such imersive, real feeling of cutting the water, ocean surface... it's so real life impresion!

I spent whole hour simply looking at surface sliding... and for carier missions it is great!
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/9898/patrolpg6.jpg

[CaptainNemo12]

Adriatico,

This may sound off-topic but where did you get that nice sub kin?

[Paajtor]

Third, I think that shadow of that side of wall is not real in water because of this two house which are in the almost same height as subpen.
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/8664/71665740ha8.th.jpg (http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=71665740ha8.jpg)
I think that's actually supposed to be shadows from the smoke-stacks in the back?
But I agree...still looks odd.

[Fender74]

it looks a bit odd to me,not very realistic at the moment.
as someone said it's early days but the stock reflections look better to me.
just my opinion though.:)

[Paajtor]

Btw, about the legal issues: I think it would be a smart move by Ubi, if they would actually encourage this kind of scaling-up for SH3...by not making any legal concerns at all.

I'm sure the publicity would get a good number of new customers to this subsim-series...because when choosing, some will fancy the Uboat-war more, and pick SH3 of instead of SH 4.
And we all know, how pretty graphics can convince a customer. ;)

Go for transparant water too! :D

[Reece]

Reece, I am trying to mod the file so that to get the 16k version of scene.dat, starting from the GWX file. You have read my post, so you are aware of the problems I encountered.
Could you please explain how you were able to bypass this gridlock: keeping x and y = 5 and still having waves in windspeed 1? Or, the other way round, to make the game render the neighbouring cells of the grid?
Or, if none of these was the case, what exactly have you made to mod the file?
Thx in advance. Go for it dcb, I only have the 8k version so if you can do the 16k version great.:up:

@ Poor Sailor I don't have the GWX tweak file for scene.dat or I would gladly edit it, I did one using standard tweak txt file but it's not good enough, & I don't want to upset GWX team by releasing a GWX version, I tested with stock GWX including env and the reflected size of the buildings is the same!

As I stated it is in it's early stages & the mod I released is for anyone to test/adjust etc, I agree with Poor Sailor that the reflections, especially for buildings need tweaking, for height & ripples etc, but we will get there, nice shots Adriatico, & where did you get that VIIC skin, looks great?:yep:
Can anyone with authority give a go ahead for testers to work on GWX files please?
Thanks & keep tweaking guys, & post your finds including any tweak settings!:up:
Cheers.

[Reece]

@Paajtor, at the moment only SHIII files have been used, but is sure would be nice to have approval to use SHIV files as you say!:yep:

[Adriatico]

VIIc skin:
I combined in Photoshop with some old downloaded skins for my fun (layers, transparences,...etc) so I can not upload it as my skin.
It is 80-90% hard work of original skinners (Fubar ? excuse me if I'm wrong... ) it is just my cosmetic finishing - to my taste.

I'd like to share it, for personal use, with other "criegsmariners"
...but how?

[Reece]

Hi a small update to scene.dat, I have changed to the following-
Wave state 1:
Amplitude = 0.4
Wave state 2:
Amplitude = 0.1
Wave state 3:
Amplitude = 0.1
Wave state 4:
Amplitude = 0.11
FresnelCoef = 4
This makes the reflection not quite a mirror, with a little ripple, this should please Poor Sailor.:yep:

@ Adriatico, just PM Furbar and ask for his approval, then release as a mod with a readme containing credits, 99% of modders are only too happy to give approval & often even offer advise.:yep: Or PM me with a download link!:arrgh!: Hee Hee!:lol:

Anyone have any other settings they have done please post a snapshot & give setting details.:D
Thanks.

[poor sailor]

Hi a small update to scene.dat, I have changed to the following-
Wave state 1:
Amplitude = 0.4
Wave state 2:
Amplitude = 0.1
Wave state 3:
Amplitude = 0.1
Wave state 4:
Amplitude = 0.11
FresnelCoef = 4
This makes the reflection not quite a mirror, with a little ripple, this should please Poor Sailor.:yep:

@ Adriatico, just PM Furbar and ask for his approval, then release as a mod with a readme containing credits, 99% of modders are only too happy to give approval & often even offer advise.:yep: Or PM me with a download link!:arrgh!: Hee Hee!:lol:

Anyone have any other settings they have done please post a snapshot & give setting details.:D
Thanks.
Thanks for that Reece, waiting for new version!:up:

[Reece]

You have mail Poor Sailor.:yep:

[Adriatico]

Exuse me, Reece, just a small issue? What on earth are you doing?

You are going to spoil endless Atlantic surfaces - to fix four bunkers?
What is wrong with yesterday's surface?
After three years of milk patroling - surface suddenly looks "too natural"?

You are going, step by step, back towards GWX... as it is "opinion of majority"?

Is it direction of announced research?
I was delighted by project of new visuals, but "opinion of majority" is winning...
Well, it's not easy to be Marco Polo, Christofor Colombo, James Cook...etc. to do it your (new) way.
Opinion of majority has a god side, you'll finish the project within one week!

[Paajtor]

You are going to spoil endless Atlantic surfaces - to fix four bunkers?

You have a point there, imo.

[poor sailor]

Exuse me, Reece, just a small issue? What on earth are you doing?

You are going to spoil endless Atlantic surfaces - to fix four bunkers?
What is wrong with yesterday's surface?
After three years of milk patroling - surface suddenly looks "too natural"?

You are going, step by step, back towards GWX... as it is "opinion of majority"?

Is it direction of announced research?
I was delighted by project of new visuals, but "opinion of majority" is winning...
Well, it's not easy to be Marco Polo, Christofor Colombo, James Cook...etc. to do it your (new) way.
Opinion of majority has a god side, you'll finish the project within one week!
I think that there is no need for that kind of words. Great work and will is present in this mod. The one and good solution is maybe to have a two versions of this mod, why not? One version with 100% mirror like and unreal reflections and second a little reduced but also with great effects. And for GWX, there is no need for "opinion of majority", the GWX is one big and great mod, and that's a fact. And TGW was very popular on this forum and had a much more users then any other mod, for example NYGM. And in that time I played NYGM, because in that time I found that mod much like to me, It has a much more playability options. But now, the GWX is something different, everything is changed in compare with previous version and that mod definitive is not just "Eye candy". It's a real experience of U-boot kaleun.

[Reece]

@ Adriatico, ok what I should have said is that anyone who thinks the reflections are too mirrored to adjust with those settings, I just had a new thought & going to do some more tests.:yep:
Since I've had no response from GWX team, I'll rephrase & say that I will do an "unoficial" GWX version unless I hear otherwise.;)
Cheers.

[Reece]

This is an Unoficial adjustment to the GWX scene.dat file for anyone who wants to give it a go, slightly more reflective Poor Sailor: :up:
http://www6.rapidupload.com/d.php?file=dl&filepath=34682 (http://www6.rapidupload.com/d.php?file=dl&filepath=34682)
Cheers.

Edit: This is the 8k version!

[Paajtor]

This is still an 8k-version, correct?

[Reece]

Yes, I could do the 16k version (I don't use it) but I thought Stager was doing it, I'll wait a while and if no response I'll post it!:D

[Stager00]

You go ahead and roll with it Reece. Have some home repairs to take care of before I spend too much time digging again.

Looking great!

[Adriatico]

[quote=Reece]This is an Unoficial adjustment to the GWX scene.dat file for anyone who wants to give it a go, slightly more reflective Poor Sailor: :up:
http://www6.rapidupload.com/d.php?file=dl&filepath=34682 (http://www6.rapidupload.com/d.php?file=dl&filepath=34682)
Cheers.

Don't get me wrong Reece, I do appreciate your hard testing and i do like GWX (it's my mod for three months...).
After testing both your "modes" it seems that GWX one, increased by further 1/3 reflection would be right thing, common ground for many, many sailors...

I know that you are occupied with 16km upload... but when you finish, if you have any spare time (maybe next weekend ... 48h upload?)
Further 30% reflex. on 8km and 16km would be NEW SIM, ...SH3.5
Just propoasal mate... ?

[Reece]

@ Adriatico, I can't touch that area, if you look at the size difference between GWX version & stock you will see why GWX is better, without stepping on toes I can only tweak the GWX versions! You could use the GWX version in stock without problems (I have), just put the first mod in then the other over top.:)
Cheers.

[Reece]

Here is the tweaked Scene for 16k atmosphere, I haven't tried this as I don't have use this version, if there are any problems please let me know.
Cheers.
http://files.filefront.com/GWX_16k_Searar/;7580443;/fileinfo.html

[Adriatico]

... I just ask You that , to twaek the GWX mode "up" a bit.

If I understand well (I am not native English) I can:
- put the first mod in GWX (what I did the first day...screens)
- then, without rolling back by JGSME, to simply paste the second mode over...?

Does it make a different mix or simply overwrites the first set of files ?

Whatever, I was looking for some mid solution i.e. GWX mode to be slightly more reflective...

[Reece]

Hi Adriatico, This is in relation to the 8k versions only:
If you want extract the first mod (3.5meg) to the JSGME mods folder, then extract the GWX version of the scene.dat to the mods\New SHIII Environment v1.0\data folder (replacing the original), then enable the mod.:up:
If you are running GWX then you don't need the first mod, just use either the GWX 8k or 16k depending on the version you are useing.:yep:
Hope this helps.
Cheers.

[mikaelanderlund]

Here is the tweaked Scene for 16k atmosphere, I haven't tried this as I don't have use this version, if there are any problems please let me know.
Cheers.
http://files.filefront.com/GWX_16k_Searar/;7580443;/fileinfo.html

Great:up: . Will try it this evening.

Mikael

[Adriatico]

I am running GWX for thee months..., yesterday I set in, by JGSM, only your second "GWX mode"...

It looked OK... as a pure "GWX combo"

But I simply asked if it could be tweaked for a an even more (slightly) reflective surfaces...?

( GWX reflect. mod for GWX standard insalation - to be even more reflective, as you say - tweaked...up.)

[Paajtor]

Here is the tweaked Scene for 16k atmosphere, I haven't tried this as I don't have use this version, if there are any problems please let me know.
Cheers.
http://files.filefront.com/GWX_16k_Searar/;7580443;/fileinfo.html
Awesome, Reece...thank you!:up:

Will try it this evening.

[mikaelanderlund]

I have tested the 16km version and it's a great work:up: However, I like the original GW water better. Don't want to sound like a criticism but just my opinion.

Mikael

[HunterICX]

:o wuaaw...nice

but I guess its a bit toooo much for my system to handle :88)

[Paajtor]

I tried this new GWX-water, and I like it.
Everything looks nice, including harbor-structure reflections.
The amount of reflection is a bit to high for my taste, though...allthough I was testing under very calm conditions (Murmansk-harbor in July)...still need to see how it looks in rough seas.
And fps didn't seem to suffer.

http://www.61shap.com/pilots/Paajtor/SHIII/GWX_newwater1a.jpg (http://www.61shap.com/pilots/Paajtor/SHIII/GWX_newwater1.jpg)

http://www.61shap.com/pilots/Paajtor/SHIII/GWX_newwater2a.jpg (http://www.61shap.com/pilots/Paajtor/SHIII/GWX_newwater2.jpg)

[Reece]

OK, I'll do one with "not so reflective settings".:yep:

Done:
http://files.filefront.com/GWX_16k_Sea_less_reflectrar/;7589862;/fileinfo.html

[Adriatico]

If it seems too reflective to someone in a calm sunny sea, keep in mind that 90% of patrol time you have some kind of vaves and clouds, more or less...
In all these konditions - graphic are beautifull!

Don't rush in less reflection...

[Paajtor]

Thx for the less reflective version, Reece...gonna try it as soon as possible.

Here are 2 more impressions of the higher-reflective version...will try to make equal screenshots of the less-refl.version, to compare:

http://www.61shap.com/pilots/Paajtor/SHIII/GWX_newwater3a.jpg http://members.home.nl/paajtor/SHIII/GWX_reducedreflection1a.jpg (http://www.61shap.com/pilots/Paajtor/SHIII/GWX_newwater3.jpg)

http://www.61shap.com/pilots/Paajtor/SHIII/GWX_newwater4a.jpg http://members.home.nl/paajtor/SHIII/GWX_reducedreflection2a.jpg (http://www.61shap.com/pilots/Paajtor/SHIII/GWX_newwater4.jpg)

High-reflective left, less-reflective right

[CapZap1970]

Reece:
Thanks a lot for your 16km less reflective version, I think it has the right ammount of reflection IMO.
If it's not much asking, do you think would be possible to have the same done for the the 8km version?
I think perhaps it would be a good idea to pack all the versions u made in a single RAR, so all the variations are included there. I think that would do your live easier, since many of us are asking for such and such modifications. Sorry, I know we are a PITA.
Thanks a lot anyway for your great job.:up: :rock:
CapZAp

[Adriatico]

The point is:
If You are looking for unrealistic sceene in your new settings, you will find it sooner or later...
If GWX was pure graphic mode in the beginning, it would have hundreds of complaints and would not last long... in fact, it has heaps of unrealistic sceens, honestly speaking...
It was just delightfull comprehensive mega mode that nobody bodered to investigate and count "artificial visuals" that happen...

These days, it is something that "90% of eyes" take as standard.

Point is - to compare compleate feeling overall, instead of "bad sceene safari"... ...and overall, these new setting are far more life-like visuals.

(If we start safari of bad sceenes in stock GWX, this thread would have 200 posts...)

[Adriatico]

http://www.61shap.com/pilots/Paajtor/SHIII/GWX_newwater3a.jpg (http://www.61shap.com/pilots/Paajtor/SHIII/GWX_newwater3.jpg)

http://www.61shap.com/pilots/Paajtor/SHIII/GWX_newwater4a.jpg (http://www.61shap.com/pilots/Paajtor/SHIII/GWX_newwater4.jpg)

Adriatico, the 1st of these 2 screenies shows exactly what I mean...keep in mind, that this is the Artic Sea, which shouldn't be so reflective, as in this screenshot.
- - - -

Well mate, this is Artic sea 100% photo... Reece is small kid compared to "mother nature"...

http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/3459/165harborjk1.jpg

[Paajtor]

You don't give up easily, right..."mate"?:lol::D

What you're showing, is a harbor where the only wind comes from a farting fisherman on the pier, and not an open ocean torn by icy winds.
The Artic Sea is dark and forbidding, almost black in some areas...in contrast to the Antartic Sea, which is much clearer.

Check this small image:

http://www.everybodysweather.com/media/polynya.jpg

As you notice, only the slightest breeze is enough to disturb almost all reflections...the waves would be even higher, if the ice-sheets weren't softening them.

But since people's opinions seem to differ regarding this mod, I think Reece has chosen the right approach, which is to release multiple versions.:up:

[Adriatico]

It seems that we finally agree...
I said:
- sea surface is 99% reflective and it is only distorted by various apperiences of wind and vawes (and some river muds)
- so INSTEAD of finding the right distortion (disturbance) of surface WITHIN GAME ENGINE we are doing wrong thing: KILLING NATURAL REFLECTION

(If truck engine doesnt mix well, you should try to tune up the mixture,...and not to cut off the fuel input...)

This is NATURAL way of surface displaying : from 99%-2% reflections!
Is it possible (?) to tune up surface roughness within game files - it is another issue...

( So, on a calm sunny day in "ARTILERY ACADEMY" training - surface simply can not be "too reflective"
How to introduce wind breeze in other surface visuals - that is the right issue, right research of game engine and file modifications... Just as in SH4 - they have full reflections with modern engine of surface distortion...)

[Paajtor]

Thx for the less reflective version, Reece...gonna try it as soon as possible.

Here are 2 more impressions of the higher-reflective version...will try to make equal screenshots of the less-refl.version, to compare:

http://www.61shap.com/pilots/Paajtor/SHIII/GWX_newwater3a.jpg (http://www.61shap.com/pilots/Paajtor/SHIII/GWX_newwater3.jpg)http://members.home.nl/paajtor/SHIII/GWX_reducedreflection1a.jpg (http://members.home.nl/paajtor/SHIII/GWX_reducedreflection1.jpg)

http://www.61shap.com/pilots/Paajtor/SHIII/GWX_newwater4a.jpg (http://www.61shap.com/pilots/Paajtor/SHIII/GWX_newwater4.jpg)http://members.home.nl/paajtor/SHIII/GWX_reducedreflection2a.jpg (http://members.home.nl/paajtor/SHIII/GWX_reducedreflection2.jpg)

High-reflective left, less-reflective right....I think I like the less-refl.version best. Thx, Reece!:up:

[Adriatico]

Just an incentive for further research... GWX8km,more r., RUB sea colors
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/8778/0scrgwx8fl6.jpg
Thanks Reece

[nikbear]

Does anybody know if this will clash with sobers 3D waves mod?:doh:

[Reece]

No!:up:

[Adriatico]

When opened with tweaker "scene.dat" offers General Environmental Data for tweaking:
...
...
WaterOpacity=
FresnelCoef=
ReflectionIntensity=
ReflectionBias=
ReflectionDeformation=
...
...

Are there any experiences in tweaking these files for sea surface cosmetics?

[Paajtor]

Just an incentive for further research... GWX8km,more r., RUB sea colors

That looks neat!...how can I try it myself? How to get RUB sea colors?

[CapZap1970]

Yes please, could you be so kind to give us a link to those sea colors?
Thanks a lot
CapZap

[Adriatico]

As far as I remember It was some mode RUB.xxx...
(Mybe RealU-Boot 1.45 ? or something similar...?)

So, these 3 files: environment atl. art. med. should just be extracted out of mod and pasted in appropriate folder.

They look fine in GWX Reece's 8km "more refl" file... ( to me )

[Paajtor]

I never used RUB...went from IUB to GWX.
Must be an other way to get that water-colour, without downloading an entire super-mod?:lol:

I like the GWX-colours as well, but I would love to change it only for when I'm sailing in the North-Sea. :)

[HW3]

Here you go. Thanks to Beery for a super mod.

http://files.filefront.com//;7627833;;/

This is just the 3 EnvColors files from RUb1.45

[Cheapskate]

Many thanks HW3 :up:

[Adriatico]

Don't get too excited... 70% of beauty comes from copied files from SH4...
Captain Reece are you there ?

[Paajtor]

Thx for sharing, HW3...will try them out ASAP. :up:

[CaptainNemo12]

Just curious,

What's the difference between GWX 8km with SH4 scene and the mod with RUb sea colours? I can't seem to see any difference bewteen the water colour.

[Reece]

Not much to do with the color of the water that is done with the Env colors, the SHIV 8k version only has improved reflections/opacy also cloud/sky colorings at sunset etc, the original SHIV scene file had 2 major set backs though when run in SHIII, the sky vortex & no moon reflection, both have been fixed & file tweaked to settings that are pleasing to most people, can download if you want to try (JSGME ready), just go to my signature download page, if for some reason you don't like just disable & remove.:yep:
Cheers.

[Bismarck]

Wow those screenshots look good. Will Silent Hunter ever cease to amaze me? :up:

[Jimbuna]

Wow those screenshots look good. Will Silent Hunter ever cease to amaze me? :up:

Probably not ;)

[ming]

Very nice! I wish someone could figure out how to make it so that you could see into the water like SHIV!

[johnno74]

Very nice! I wish someone could figure out how to make it so that you could see into the water like SHIV!

Hell yes, that would ROCK

I've done some investigations along these lines, and unfortunately don't think its possible. I'm sure the SH3 devs also toyed for transparent water and there must be some good reasons why its not done.

The engine kinda supports it, move the external cam to the shoreline and you can see a small amount of the seabed in close to the shore. The amount of seabed that is rendered when the camera is above the water is fixed to a set distance from the shore, and not a set depth. If you make the waves too big then you'll notice that waves receed out past this point and you get gaps where there is no water, and also no seabed.
For a fairly funky effect beach your sub - the seabed close to the shore is rendered where your sub is sitting, but portion of your sub that is underwater isn't rendered at all.

I'm willing to bet that the main reason for no transparent water is the game engine doesn't support volumetric fogging - that would mean different areas of the scene had different fogging levels - one fogging level for above the water, and a different fogging level for underwater. The fogging level is universal, and switches to above water/below water values depending on where the camera is.

That would mean if we somehow hacked in transparent water stuff underwater would fade into the distance at the same rate as stuff above water - you would be able to see someting on the seafloor just as clearly as if it were just below the surface..
So yeah, unfortunately its much more complicated than just making the surface of the water transparent, and the devs most likely realised this and hardcoded the engine to not render anything that is underwater (except for the fringes of the shoreline) when the cam is above the water.

[Reece]

Trouble is that SHIII doen't know what to do with dds files, I think once SHIV patch 1.3 is released & if most of the bugs are fixed, converting SHIV to the Atlantic theater would be the way to go IMO!.:D