Carotio, a theif!

[WilhelmSchulz.]

From a thread on UBI.
I work on joining WAC and GWX! Whether it was appearing as GWX-TA1.3 or as independant supermod

Thats no better than Seawolves and XI software! :damn: :damn: :damn: :damn:

[CCIP]

I'm not quite sure what you mean. :hmm:

Noone, so far as I'm aware, has prohibited any independent project on joining mods, with due credit etc.

[WilhelmSchulz.]

yes but the "independant supermod" thing thats the punchy part.

[joea]

Indeed, will he give credit for the other's work? I saw it already btw. :know:

[danlisa]

I think the problem stems from the fact that, rather than making changes to files and then distributing them as a JSGME or exe package, he's taking the entirety of said mod packages, making changes and re-releasing it as a complete supermod.

At least this is what he has done to date, with (as far as I know) no permission obtained from the creators of the original work.

Regardless of credit given, this is 'poaching' off other peoples hard work.

You could argue that any modder working from UBI files should do the same, but blah blah blah. We heard that before.:88) What we are talking about is 'modders etiquette' within the community. He has shown none.:nope:

[Penelope_Grey]

GWX uses several stand alone Mods as part of the overall package, with credit given...

Serious question: Did the GWX team go to each and every creator of the stand alone mods and ask for permission to use them in the GWX Supermod? Is it practical or even possible to do that?

EDIT: I am not trying to be funny and awkward, just I cannot see what the harm is in using what exists to make something else for people to enjoy? If credit is given and acknowledgement of origins where is the trouble? I genuinely don't understand how what is happening is so terrible.

[danlisa]

GWX uses several stand alone Mods as part of the overall package, with credit given...

Did the GWX team go to each and every creator of the stand alone mods and ask for permission to use them in the GWX Supermod?

There's only 1 man who can answer that with any certainty but I will venture a guess that they did.:yep: Ether that or the owners of the standalone mod were asked to join the GWX Dev team to help them incorporate it into GWX.;)

Besides, GWX has not taken an already established supermod added a few changes and then re-released the entire thing as their own work.

EDIT - Just seen your edit. ;) There would probably no issue with this, if a JSGME/EXE package was created to add Carotio's changes to someones install of GWX/WAC but what he is doing is using entire supermods and re-distributing them. To me and many others, that is plagerism. If he is going to create a supermod, he must start from scratch with his own files & research. You will probably find that the majority of time it took for GWX to be ready for release was taken up with research & testing (at least 75%), Carotio has done none of this. Example, the torp tweaks I made you, what if I made the tweaks and said that you had to d/l the entire supermod again.:88) A bit extreme but similar to this situation.

[Tuddley3]

Carotio has NEVER taken credit for others work. Have you not read his Read Me file. No of course not, because no one has downloaded his work. In fact, he even states so on his website. He just used GWX as a platform to use his "Tweaks", which is all the were, just tweaks.

[joea]

Tuddley, how many people have posted thanking him for "his" GWX mod that have never posted here or thanked the GWX team or those who contributed. A fair number have thanked Carotio for the whole mod...he doesn't just distribute the tweaks for GWX but the whole mod that's the issue!!

[Hitman]

OK, before this thread definitively slips into the "dark side of the force", I would like to remember some points:

1.- Words like "Thief" are unnecessary expressions to qualify other people actions. More so when only a sentence from the original post by that guy is quoted, and that sentence is the basis to put that "Thief" label.

2.- As long as permission is granted from creators of anything, the work of others can be freely modified & distributed.

3.- Well founded critics, with explicit description of the matter and accurate references are wellcomed, though always asked to remain civil.

Thanks

[Penelope_Grey]

Ah! I understand now. Thanks for explaining to me Dan. :up:

[Carotio]

Well, I would like to answer some of these comments about me, so please don't start commenting my answer(s), before I have written: "I'm done for now!"
As you can see a lot have allready commented, so it will take some time!
TIA

[HanSolo78]

I just read about his plan in the german forum... (a little more detailed) and I have to say, that I am completly furious!! :damn: :nope: :/\\!!
It is not just taking little things like merchants and putting them into the campaign...instead he takes work which has been developed and improved over 1 1/2 years, punches it together with parts of GWx and names it a new supermod!!!???? :nope:
also he did not ask to use work of others!!

Carotio ... this can´t be.... it is one thing... changing an existent supermod and releasing it as addon... but this is really DAMN FU*****

[Carotio]

From a thread on UBI.
I work on joining WAC and GWX! Whether it was appearing as GWX-TA1.3 or as independant supermod

Thats no better than Seawolves and XI software! :damn: :damn: :damn: :damn:

Theft is made for personal profit!

I do not do this for personal profit or glory to myself!

GWX-TA was/is a tweak mod and adding mod for GWX!
My intention to create WU is not to take any glory away from GWX, but I have frequently been accused for trying to steal the glory of GWX by making my tweaks, which was never the intention!
Giving this new supermod a total new name is only to make the difference more clear! And no, it will not appear at some software company later on! It will appear as a free download, just as GWX-TA was/is.

[Carotio]

Indeed, will he give credit for the other's work? I saw it already btw. :know:

In my GWX-TA, I have made credits to original developers, and this would be the case for WU as well!

[Jimbuna]

Not feckin again!! :nope:

Some people appear to be happy when they know they're as popular as a fart in a spacesuit :arrgh!:

I only wish we could hard code the mods and put a stop to this madness :damn:

[Carotio]

I think the problem stems from the fact that, rather than making changes to files and then distributing them as a JSGME or exe package, he's taking the entirety of said mod packages, making changes and re-releasing it as a complete supermod.

This was not done with GWX-TA, neither GW-UA!
WU will contain from WAC and GWX, what I find interesting! But it's not necessarily the entire package! The size will still be big, but it will not contain everything! Just as WAC or GWX don't contain everything!

At least this is what he has done to date, with (as far as I know) no permission obtained from the creators of the original work.

Partly true, partly not true! It's true that I have not asked all and one modder to permit my tweaks, some people just don't answer me, when I send them a PM! How is the normal reaction, when people ignore a person? Exactly, one would do the same to them! But that doesn't me that I don't write a credit to them in the readme file!

Regardless of credit given, this is 'poaching' off other peoples hard work.

One may feel so, but one shouldn't!

You could argue that any modder working from UBI files should do the same, but blah blah blah. We heard that before.:88) What we are talking about is 'modders etiquette' within the community. He has shown none.:nope:

Wrong! I show some by crediting! I just don't fall to my knees and beg for permission! But we have all been through this before: some find the begging necessary, I don't! I admit it and apologize for it! But accept the fact, when you release some freeware on the internet, it's freeware! It will be used sooner or later, also one day, when none of us is around anymore...
So I credit, and that's it! Sorry!

[danlisa]

What I don't understand is why you don't follow the practices of every other modder?

Ask Permission!
Give Credit! (ok, done)

2 points here;

If you asked permission to use the entirety of GWX and re-release it with your changes, then permission would not have been given.

If you just created your tweaks and distributed them as an optional/additional mod in JSGME/EXE format then, permission would not have been needed and the 'intellectual rights' of GWX/WAC would not have been contravened. Not only that but, your tweaks would have been in a smaller package.

This seems to me that you need the work already done by GWX/WAC to be able to produce anything. Just do what everyone else has, release changes or improvements on their own. Why is that so hard?

Edit - posted before your response.:roll:

[Hitman]

Nuff talk:down:

Carotio has not yet released that supposed super-mod, and we don't know yet how it will come in its final form (If it ever does:roll: ).

Continuing an angry discussion about it serves no purpose except unnecessarily heating this forum. :hmm: Let time go by and see what happens. If unauthorized mods content is later used, I will be the first to be against it, but don't go mad about something that has not happened yet.:nope:

[Carotio]

[quote=Penelope_Grey]
EDIT - Just seen your edit. ;) There would probably no issue with this, if a JSGME/EXE package was created to add Carotio's changes to someones install of GWX/WAC
GWX-TA was/is exactly that! Tweaks on top of GWX!

but what he is doing is using entire supermods and re-distributing them.
What's the difference of including a small mod in GWX/WAC and a part/parts of a supermod like GWX/WAC in another mod?
None!

To me and many others, that is plagerism.
Only if they appear exactly the same!

If he is going to create a supermod, he must start from scratch with his own files & research.
That's of course your right to have that opinion! Some things will be/are done from scratch, but some will be taken from other mods!

You will probably find that the majority of time it took for GWX to be ready for release was taken up with research & testing (at least 75%), Carotio has done none of this.
How do you know this? Have you lived under my bed for the last year or two? I have done some research and testing too!

[Carotio]

Tuddley, how many people have posted thanking him for "his" GWX mod that have never posted here or thanked the GWX team or those who contributed. A fair number have thanked Carotio for the whole mod...he doesn't just distribute the tweaks for GWX but the whole mod that's the issue!!

I have not asked these people to thank me for the whole job! NEVER!

When I have read these thanks, at subsim or in any other forum, I have always corrected them and said: try GWX without GWX-TA first, so one can see the difference!
And I have also stated quite clearly in my readme file, what was done by me and what was done by somebody else!
But I guess, the GWX dev team and I have something in common then: apparently no-one reads the readme... :-?

I bet: most of you complainers have not even had the guts to try GWX-TA on top of GWX first, before complaining! Then you would know of some improvements, yes, I did say improvements!

I know, I have also made some tweaks, which do not fall into the taste of everyone, but I do believe, I have been coorporative with those asking for how to further mod my tweak or to exclude a certain part of GWX-TA. I also made the original damage model as an optional mod, and not as default!

[Carotio]

I just read about his plan in the german forum... (a little more detailed) and I have to say, that I am completly furious!! :damn: :nope: :/\\!!
It is not just taking little things like merchants and putting them into the campaign...instead he takes work which has been developed and improved over 1 1/2 years, punches it together with parts of GWx and names it a new supermod!!!???? :nope:
also he did not ask to use work of others!!

Carotio ... this can´t be.... it is one thing... changing an existent supermod and releasing it as addon... but this is really DAMN FU*****

Well, I'm sorry that you feel ripped off! But before you hit the roof out of anger, then please look in the German ubi forum! At your PMs!

I'm always accused of not asking people first!

But I did send you a PM there April 18th, and you haven't even bothered to answer it! Why?

So please, before you all hit the roof out of anger towards me accusing me for not asking first! How come do you expect me to act otherwise, when you ignore me?
Publicly, you tell me to ask first. In private, you ignore me! Go figure, why I act, how I act!

And HanSolo, I do not just merge WAC and GWX today, and release it tomorrow!
I don't!

I investigate the campaigns to get ideas, I do my tweaks to that! I'll look at other things and do tweaks to that as well.

When and if WU appears, it will not be like WAC, and it will not be like GWX, but it will have elements from both, I don't deny that! But I will still be something completely different!

I'll respond to your message in German ubi forum as well!

[HanSolo78]

I just read about his plan in the german forum... (a little more detailed) and I have to say, that I am completly furious!! :damn: :nope: :/\\!!
It is not just taking little things like merchants and putting them into the campaign...instead he takes work which has been developed and improved over 1 1/2 years, punches it together with parts of GWx and names it a new supermod!!!???? :nope:
also he did not ask to use work of others!!

Carotio ... this can´t be.... it is one thing... changing an existent supermod and releasing it as addon... but this is really DAMN FU*****

Well, I'm sorry that you feel ripped off! But before you hit the roof out of anger, then please look in the German ubi forum! At your PMs!

I'm always accused of not asking people first!

But I did send you a PM there April 18th, and you haven't even bothered to answer it! Why?

So please, before you all hit the roof out of anger towards me accusing me for not asking first! How come do you expect me to act otherwise, when you ignore me?
Publicly, you tell me to ask first. In private, you ignore me! Go figure, why I act, how I act!

And HanSolo, I do not just merge WAC and GWX today, and release it tomorrow!
I don't!

I investigate the campaigns to get ideas, I do my tweaks to that! I'll look at other things and do tweaks to that as well.

When and if WU appears, it will not be like WAC, and it will not be like GWX, but it will have elements from both, I don't deny that! But I will still be something completely different!

I'll respond to your message in German ubi forum as well!

Why I didn`t answer?
Because I don´t get email notifications of PMs !!!
I almost never use PMs in the germean ubi forum.
I just read your message and it is nothing ok if you assume that I read PMs and so.. the thing is done!
Just as you answer that I did not read your Pm it is a complete unacceptable approach of your work taking things from others!

So.. you wanna tweak the campaign files? what do you wanna tweak? tell me! what do you want to change?
I tell you... there won`t be a noticeable difference!!!! I swear!

so.. if you think you can do whatever you want, then I´ll do things like you too and this won´t be to your pleasures!

[Hitman]

OK gentleman. The discussion has arived to a point where it's mostly about personal remarks that should be discussed privately. I'm closing this topic. Let the discussion continue through other ways now.:roll: