Why did they do it AGAIN?

[Marcador]

I have been playing SH since...well, since the old days!

The following is just my personal opinion. It's my 2cents on a matter that I feel need addressing in public (and best in a forum where some dev might read it - just to see what they are doing for UBISOFT'S image (and its loyal customers):

I got SH when it first came out (no bugs I can remember)...
I bought SH2 (with only minor bugs)...
I stuck with SH3, (with all bugs included)...

Now i get 'bombed' with news about bugs in SH4...

AND THIS TIME, I'M NOT BUYING IT ANYMORE!!!

I am disappointed, very disappointed with UBISOFT!

When SH3 came out, we started working on the bugs, and finally got the sitauation under control with the great realism/immersion mods.

All the time we thought: 'It can only get better with SH4! They will not make the same mistake again!'

Now we reap the fruits of our labor: Maybe UBI thought, 'The fans are allright. They'll do the final qa-testing and look at SH3, they made it into a playable game as well!'

I feel it's a shame for a games-publisher to throw a beta at the market.
I feel it's even more of a shame that we buy it, and then have to collect all bugs, even before someone from UBI is MAYBE interested in correcting them.

Especially with the SH3-experience (how to get it to work properly) still in my bones, I would have never thought that the next SH (4) would be WORSE.

Next time UBI should consider either taking a working game to market, or they should keep it for good.

So far, they have lost me as a customer. I have no belief anymore in a company that obviously sells products which are not ready for the market.
When putting something up for sale, it'd better work properly.

I have deep respect for all you guys hunting down the bugs (who have BOUGHT the game), but it's not what I will pay for - Not again!

[wireman]

Second.

[longam]

Not uncommon as been said before. Microsoft released Flight Sim 10 as playable yet it has bugs that need fixed, and the frame rate is a big hit. They are in their 3 beta test for patch 1. This sim came out long before SH4.

[bwchaney]

you gripers disgust me. I updated my computer just for this game and has it been worth it, you bet it has. If you sample the mods that have been made and the two patches so far you cam make SH4 whatever you want. It plays great on my machine and I'm sure on other peoples as well. I wish you people would not exaggerate the negatives and start accentuating the positives. you really make me sick. Devildog

[wireman]

Right back at ya fella.

[TDK1044]

Constantly posting here about how unhappy you are with Ubisoft really serves no purpose. This is not a Ubisoft website, and the Devs who come and read posts here are only looking at technical posts relating to the game.

Why doesn't one of you guys compose a letter to Ubisoft on behalf of all those who wish to complain about the state of the game at release? The letter can be posted and tweaked prior to being sent. Those who wish to be associated with it can let the writer know.

I'd Keep it to one page and keep it polite. Nobody will read an aggressive, inpolite letter. At least by doing something like this you'd be communicating with the right people, instead of creating yet another "I hate Ubisoft and I'm never purchasing one of their products again" thread.

Nobody on this Forum can answer for Ubisoft, so talk to them.

[Silence]

These bugs spoken of are the reason forums like this are so effective. We can pool our resources and make something good even better.
:lost:

[SteamWake]

This is not a Ubisoft website, Nobody on this Forum can answer for Ubisoft, so talk to them.

QFT

Hey Ive noticed that since last night that has been a sudden upswing of new posters (less than 10 posts) expressing their discontent.

Whats up with that ?

[VonBlade]

Hey Ive noticed that since last night that has been a sudden upswing of new posters (less than 10 posts) expressing their discontent. Whats up with that ?
Maybe, just maybe, they are people who've only recently gone out to purchase a submarine simulation and are finding the problems with it a suitable cause for complaint.

Maybe not all of us have been here since the dawn of time playing SH1.

Maybe they've only just discovered this "unofficial" site.

Regardless of the reasons people have only recently started to post it certainly doesn't make their opinion any less valid.
VB

[Avatar]

I dont like the bugs either, but after seeing what GWX did to sh3 we can only hope for the best for sh4. Even with frame rates, when GWX1.03 came out was a major improvement for sh3. Let's hope for the best when it comes to sh4.
I guess the solution is have a company come out with a game, then have the community fix it. Only problem is that the community doesnt get paid!
I have a mid-range computer and GWX1.03 works like a dream.

For those who dont like whining, you dont have to listen.

[TDK1044]

Hey Ive noticed that since last night that has been a sudden upswing of new posters (less than 10 posts) expressing their discontent. Whats up with that ?
Maybe, just maybe, they are people who've only recently gone out to purchase a submarine simulation and are finding the problems with it a suitable cause for complaint.

Maybe not all of us have been here since the dawn of time playing SH1.

Maybe they've only just discovered this "unofficial" site.

Regardless of the reasons people have only recently started to post it certainly doesn't make their opinion any less valid.
VB

And all newcomers are very welcome, VonBlade. There is a huge varirty of topics relating to SH4 to discuss here and also a very good modding community, but if a member's beef is with Ubisoft then he or she should take the issue to them. As I said in my original post, nobody on this site is authorized to speak for Ubisoft.

[daft]

And all newcomers are very welcome, VonBlade. There is a huge varirty of topics relating to SH4 to discuss here and also a very good modding community, but if a member's beef is with Ubisoft then he or she should take the issue to them. As I said in my original post, nobody on this site is authorized to speak for Ubisoft.
I couldn't agree more. I fully understand the frustration some people feel when playing SH4, it does undoubtedly have bugs. However, I would suggest that they either choose to stick with the game, help out with the bug reporting or take up their complaints with Ubi directly as TDK suggests above. Because we honestly don't need more gripe threads at this point. I've always considered Subsim to be the best forum for discussion on tactics, tips or just plain sharing of experiences. Now it seems as if every other thread is started in order for posters to point fingers at Ubi.

I actually enjoy the game as it is. It's not perfect, but it is hugely entertaining and immersive. As I said, I understand where the complaints are coming from, but I think it is time you take it up with Ubi, your local CA or simply shelf the game and find something better to play.

[Meridian]

you gripers disgust me. I updated my computer just for this game and has it been worth it, you bet it has. If you sample the mods that have been made and the two patches so far you cam make SH4 whatever you want. It plays great on my machine and I'm sure on other peoples as well. I wish you people would not exaggerate the negatives and start accentuating the positives. you really make me sick. Devildog
Yep, and it's people like you who accept the below standard tripe they are fed that allows software houses to keep getting away with it.

If everyone on this forum kept there mouths shut and didn't point out all these faults do you honestly think you would have seen a 1.2 patch?

Hey, but if you're happy with the sim the way it is I guess you won't be installing a 1.3 patch if there is one....will ya.

[rduffy34]

I have been playing SH since...well, since the old days!

The following is just my personal opinion. It's my 2cents on a matter that I feel need addressing in public (and best in a forum where some dev might read it - just to see what they are doing for UBISOFT'S image (and its loyal customers):

I got SH when it first came out (no bugs I can remember)...
I bought SH2 (with only minor bugs)...
I stuck with SH3, (with all bugs included)...

Now i get 'bombed' with news about bugs in SH4...

AND THIS TIME, I'M NOT BUYING IT ANYMORE!!!

I am disappointed, very disappointed with UBISOFT!

When SH3 came out, we started working on the bugs, and finally got the sitauation under control with the great realism/immersion mods.

All the time we thought: 'It can only get better with SH4! They will not make the same mistake again!'

Now we reap the fruits of our labor: Maybe UBI thought, 'The fans are allright. They'll do the final qa-testing and look at SH3, they made it into a playable game as well!'

I feel it's a shame for a games-publisher to throw a beta at the market.
I feel it's even more of a shame that we buy it, and then have to collect all bugs, even before someone from UBI is MAYBE interested in correcting them.

Especially with the SH3-experience (how to get it to work properly) still in my bones, I would have never thought that the next SH (4) would be WORSE.

Next time UBI should consider either taking a working game to market, or they should keep it for good.

So far, they have lost me as a customer. I have no belief anymore in a company that obviously sells products which are not ready for the market.
When putting something up for sale, it'd better work properly.

I have deep respect for all you guys hunting down the bugs (who have BOUGHT the game), but it's not what I will pay for - Not again!

And your telling us that your not going to buy the game? Why? As far as I'm concerned I don't lose a wink of sleep at night thinking about trivial crap like bugs in my game or games, I know they will be fixed. If you dont want to buy the game then holy crap don't buy it. I'll be sleeping like a baby tonight right after another glorious patrol in SH4.

Have a Good'n

[CaptainCox]

Its getting there, this poll is to bias, GOOD/BAD...not really the state of things. "Its getting there" plain and simply!

[mookiemookie]

Regardless of the reasons people have only recently started to post it certainly doesn't make their opinion any less valid.


Basic forum ettiquette is to not create a new topic when there's an existing one that deals with the same thing.

The people with gripes with the game can gripe all they want as far as I'm concerned, but it's annoying and rude to have to scroll through 100 threads all dealing with the same thing. I think that's where a lot of the animosity comes from.

[Marcador]

Hi y'all,

If there were no need for a discussion it wouldn't take place, right?
BTW: I've written my letter to UBI already - no reply til now...

Maybe we could start a petition (like ago with Sonarlysts), to tell UBI that with the next SH, we will wait patiently, because we all prefer a good game?
If I can be of any help organising, please let me know!

To reply to all those who say I 'gripe', or who may think 'We should be glad UBI has made another SH - don't upset UBI by criticising!' (has already been done in too many reviews all over!):

Being a marketer, I understand that
a) product life cycles are getting shorter
b) we are a true 'niche'-market (low sales - relatively)
b) programming becomes increasingly complicated
Result: Immense pressure on any subsim dev!

on the other hand:
a) We have strong word of mouth. If anyone tells there's a new sim...we all know!
b) We are loyal. We stick to subsims & buy again, and again...don't we?
c) We have true talents among us (think: Greywolves). Their modding, and compiling allows for longer shelf-live of a subsim. Man, you can still get missions for SH2!
Result: We're not the biggest, but a steady market!

Now, that more companies put out products with serious bugs - does it justify the situation? It's my money (comes from work) that they want, and is it exaggerated to expect a product that 'does what it says on the tin'? Man, there's no bugs in my cash!

UBI is a company with employees that want to get paid every month. And they wouldn't publish a title if they didn't think they'd earn a buck. So, wouldn't they minimise their risk (and increase prospect turnover) if they took the few months it takes to create a really working game? I mean, we are NOT talking flight-sim market with strong competition. Who else is currently there for us other than UBI? Maybe 'shells of fury', 'BS Midway' ???

What I do not understand is that some of us seem to think: 'Let's make a good SH4 better!' - Wake up, it is not a good product YET - when you press 'Hold depth'...and you crash to desktop (I've seen myself!)

This has become longer than intended, please let me say I do not mean to hurt anyone's feelings! The above is only my personal opnion!

If I griped, I'd gripe about climate change, 'world-peace' & justice, and about my little belly that's too fat ;-)

[Onkel Neal]

I'm enjoying the game, and with the 1.2 patch, it's pretty well done, but I agree, another patch is needed to fix a few key issues. The devs know this, and I trust their sense of professionalism to get it done.

[skullman86]

I think you needed one more option for those of us who were kind of on the fence.....It's enjoyable but it in no way "excels" my expectations :rotfl:.

[bwchaney]

I agree wholeheartedly with Neal. All the gripers need to realize that most problems with the game have been taken care with mods and patches. The game is very playable on all types of computers you just have to adjust the graphics accordingly, The days of substandard computers are fading rapidly. Everyone knew in order to play the game to the fuillest extent of graphics took a great computer to run it. If you are going to gripe about graphics update your system or can your gripes. What else is there to complain about. I think the devs know by now that we all want a great game so lets not bash ubi; it is not going to help. Devildog

[Ducimus]

This thread - DOA.
http://www.scsc.k12.ar.us/2002ArkNatHist/Projects/ArnoldL/Images/Armadillo_dead_a02.jpg

[SurfnSea]

Taking in many of the threads (pro/con) for SH4 I'm not going to buy it for awhile, at least. I, like most gamers, I bet, have to upgrade at least one thing on their computer in order to have an obviously buggy game playable. So, I like many, I bet, have to keep an eye on the budget. So, laying out about $50 for the game plus upgrade(s) for a game in the current condition is not a wise move.

Wouldn't it be interesting if another company came in a put out a quality sub sim to undercut UBI. It seems UBI has set themselves up for it.

This is a great community. As a consumer I'm glad to see everyone hash out the good and bad of sub sim games, SH4 in particular. Thanks.

[dean_acheson]

Ugh, another one of these...

... you don't write unbiased poll questions for the New York Times do you?

:-?

[dean_acheson]

Taking in many of the threads (pro/con) for SH4 I'm not going to buy it for awhile, at least. I, like most gamers, I bet, have to upgrade at least one thing on their computer in order to have an obviously buggy game playable. So, I like many, I bet, have to keep an eye on the budget. So, laying out about $50 for the game plus upgrade(s) for a game in the current condition is not a wise move.

Wouldn't it be interesting if another company came in a put out a quality sub sim to undercut UBI. It seems UBI has set themselves up for it.

This is a great community. As a consumer I'm glad to see everyone hash out the good and bad of sub sim games, SH4 in particular. Thanks.

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

yep, I bet EA does it, they have done a helluva job with NASCAR.... have you priced NR2003 lately? :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[Ducimus]

Wouldn't it be interesting if another company came in a put out a quality sub sim to undercut UBI. It seems UBI has set themselves up for it.

Will never happen. Nobody else will make a subsim. Small market, not alot of money to be made when you compare it to other game genre's. Ubi probably could have made more money develping "Farcry 2" then Sh4.

[d@rk51d3]

I'm enjoying the game despite a few flaws. But the fact that we're STILL playing it does say something, ..........doesn't it?:hmm:

[Meco]

http://yosh.org/hello1.jpg


^^^- That one kills me :rotfl:

[DS]

I've been playing subsims for 11 years now. I own every subsim released in that period. The ONLY Silent Hunter that disappointed me was SH2, at least until Destroyer COmmand and Pacific Aces came out, at which point I loved that sim also. SH3 and SH4 had and have some bugs. Patches have and will correct these I am confident based on experience. Mods will continue to improve them (there is no software that can't be "improved" in one way or another after release). The devs know this, and thankfully give us open architecture so the community can volunteer hundreds or even thousands of hours of labour and love to make a good thing even better.

I bought a new system for the express purpose of getting the most out of SH4. I installed the patches, and researched the available mods (as I always do).

My SH4 runs great and is stable. It looks great. My radar works after modding. I am happy with the damage control. The manual target speed function still needs work, but I can make do with some quick math until that gets corrected (it DOES need to be corrected).

In short, SH3 and SH4 did not leave the barn perfect, but they have in my opinion provided a platform that has won the race. They are the best WW2 sub sims out there, all things considered. I am a happy gamer. When SH5 comes out, I will again buy a new computer to run it, and I fully expect to get a product that, even with a few warts, will provide a working platform that will evolve to outshine everything the competition has to offer (which, in subsims, is unfortunatley very slim).

In summation, as a gamer with a long term vested interest in seeing subsims continue to be produced for an admittedly small community, I feel that I must, out of enlightened self interest, as well as honesty, say that SH4 is definately worth buying. It is not 100% of what I would have wanted, but it is 90-95% there, and I am having a butt kicking good time with it as it is right now. Sure, in another 6 months, I know it will be even better. In another 18 months, it will be even better still. But, when patched and modded, it is a great sim right now, and people should not be discouraged from buying it. Sales keep this community alive and happy. Scaring off potential new subsimmers hurts this community's future, and in the case of SH4, is not warranted anyway. SH3 was a sales success from what I understand, and I am glad for it, because that led to SH4. SH4 is giving me loads of great times, and I recommend it to anyone with any interest in the genre.

[McBeck]

I have been playing SH since...well, since the old days!

The following is just my personal opinion. It's my 2cents on a matter that I feel need addressing in public (and best in a forum where some dev might read it - just to see what they are doing for UBISOFT'S image (and its loyal customers):

I got SH when it first came out (no bugs I can remember)...
I bought SH2 (with only minor bugs)...
I stuck with SH3, (with all bugs included)...

Now i get 'bombed' with news about bugs in SH4...

AND THIS TIME, I'M NOT BUYING IT ANYMORE!!!

I am disappointed, very disappointed with UBISOFT!

When SH3 came out, we started working on the bugs, and finally got the sitauation under control with the great realism/immersion mods.

All the time we thought: 'It can only get better with SH4! They will not make the same mistake again!'

Now we reap the fruits of our labor: Maybe UBI thought, 'The fans are allright. They'll do the final qa-testing and look at SH3, they made it into a playable game as well!'

I feel it's a shame for a games-publisher to throw a beta at the market.
I feel it's even more of a shame that we buy it, and then have to collect all bugs, even before someone from UBI is MAYBE interested in correcting them.

Especially with the SH3-experience (how to get it to work properly) still in my bones, I would have never thought that the next SH (4) would be WORSE.

Next time UBI should consider either taking a working game to market, or they should keep it for good.

So far, they have lost me as a customer. I have no belief anymore in a company that obviously sells products which are not ready for the market.
When putting something up for sale, it'd better work properly.

I have deep respect for all you guys hunting down the bugs (who have BOUGHT the game), but it's not what I will pay for - Not again!
I guess it depends on point of view...

From my point of view SH2 was far the buggiest game

Sh3 or Sh4 has never ever crashed on me :)

[spdklls]

I voted yes, but I feel either choice is not adequate to express my self. There needs to be another option, "Pretty satisfied, but would like more work done."

[Iron Budokan]

I have faith in our modding community. I know they will do everything they can to make this game even better.

[Wilcke]

Imagine all the "new customers" that I could bring into sub simming if SH4 had been brought to market in a more "user friendly" manner. Imagine all the "new customers", that do not frequent Subsim Forums, or want to learn about installing and de-installing mods, and understand that some mods do not work after the game is patched by the developer.

I am a hardcore simmer been with MSFS since version 5 and IL-2 Forgotten Battles since is first demo. The majority of folks I run into that are interested in this hobby just do not have the time and patience to put up with the litany of patches, fixes and mods that it takes to have a "smooth" experience.

But guess what; they do have the money to purchase the games and they are interested in them. They just do not want to deal with the headaches! They want a product they can load on the PC and enjoy out of the box. OK, lets just say it may need a patch or two, to fix a few sundry problems.

My opinion, I do like all the fiddling, tweaking, patching and modding....but then again I am crazy!:rotfl:

Wilcke

[Kant Schwimm]

Quote/Marcador

"Next time UBI should consider either taking a working game to market, or they should keep it for good."

Well just maybe if enough threads like this and others that keep running UBI down keep being published they might just take you up on it, I for one would much rather play a SLIGHTLY broken game than a dumbed down point and shoot PS3/XBOX game, I really am suprised they are STILL making extremley difficult to code games like this for the pc when they can make console games which are easier to code AND sell for nearly twice the price, to be honest I think the only reason they do still make pc games is because they know there will always be a wealth of talent in communities like this to pool resources from in upcomming titles.

I salute you UBI for providing the time resources and finance to make a sim that I love:rock:

Now i'm going back to the forums to do what this forum does best - help others and get help myself and learn to be a great skipper.:up:

[hawk2495]

ok guys im relatively new to the forums but i cant help but put my 2 cents worth in. i know sh4 has its issues, but at its core it is a great game, one that in time could easily overshadow all others in the genre(not that the list is that long). there are bugs, but no company has yet to release a "perfect" game. now for example not the same genre but a good example non the less, star trek legacy. it was so buggy at release almost no one could easily play it. after two useless patches the devs have officially given up on it.. that my friends is unprofessional on the devs part, IMO. UBI hasnt given up on a title yet, in fact they patch the hell out of it until they think its right. so give UBI some credit, they're still working on it and when theyre done itll be as awesome if not more so than we could hope... ok end of ranting, carry on..:arrgh!:

[AVGWarhawk]

ok guys im relatively new to the forums but i cant help but put my 2 cents worth in. i know sh4 has its issues, but at its core it is a great game, one that in time could easily overshadow all others in the genre(not that the list is that long). there are bugs, but no company has yet to release a "perfect" game. now for example not the same genre but a good example non the less, star trek legacy. it was so buggy at release almost no one could easily play it. after two useless patches the devs have officially given up on it.. that my friends is unprofessional on the devs part, IMO. UBI hasnt given up on a title yet, in fact they patch the hell out of it until they think its right. so give UBI some credit, they're still working on it and when theyre done itll be as awesome if not more so than we could hope... ok end of ranting, carry on..:arrgh!:

Nice post and welcome aboard Swab:up:

[DS]

I agree. There are enough devs that would just put it on the store shelf and forget it (sorry to hear about ST: Legacy - I had hopes for that title).

The SH3/4 devs are continuing to work for us. Let's support them in that decision, so we don't all end up staring glassy eyed at some intellectually numbing console game down the road.:dead:

I fear the dumbing down of the gaming industry in the same way
I fear _________ (insert worst fear here).:nope:

[zylark]

I'm sorry to say being used to software shipping in a beta stage. IL2, Battlefield 1942, BF Vietnam and BF2 all came with glaring bugs. Call of Duty 2 didn't even have anti-cheat at release (not to mention the bugs), quite the oversight considering its multiplayer abilities.

What made me buy those games though, was the proven track-record of developers releasing patches. I understand the financial pressure to release a game before all testing and QA is done. Cash flow is often more important than the bottom line when all sales are done.

Comparing PC games and console games with regards to state of released games is just a rather premature dichotomy. Back when very few was connected to the internet, computer games were released nearly fault free. This is the state of current consoles as well. There is no practical manner to update a released game on a console, seeing as very few are online.

This will change, and you will see a situation where console games are released as buggy as a lot of PC games are today.

This is not necessarily a bad thing. By knowing that publishers can update games as an influx of cash is earned by initial release, they can set higher standards of contents. In short making more complex games, with higher aspirations then the drudgery current console games represent. Various online-shooter and sims, mainstays of PC gaming, is testament to this.

As such I can confidently say that my purchase of SH4 was a good one. Infact, it will probably be the only Singleplayer game I will buy this year. Already two patches, and a great community that takes the game further than any developer could do on a reasonable budget.

I'm pleased with the current state of the game, and further patches and mods will just make me even more immersed in it. To me the game is stable, looks stunning (on a two year old computer even, allthough it was high end back then), and is a lot more varied than standard SH3. All in all, an improvement.

Gripers should focus on what is done right, and just await purchase (or playing it) until things are settled to satisfaction.

[joea]

I'm sorry to say being used to software shipping in a beta stage. IL2, Battlefield 1942, BF Vietnam and BF2 all came with glaring bugs. Call of Duty 2 didn't even have anti-cheat at release (not to mention the bugs), quite the oversight considering its multiplayer abilities.



What glaring bugs did Il2 have on release? Anyway you could not have known about the devs proven track record since it was a new kid in the block at the time. :shifty:

[zylark]

Well, forgive my failing memory. I'm getting old. Shall I edit out the Il2 reference, or let it stand as a testament to developers releasing patches ironing out bugs and making a good game even better?

[Bando]

you gripers disgust me. I updated my computer just for this game and has it been worth it, you bet it has. If you sample the mods that have been made and the two patches so far you cam make SH4 whatever you want. It plays great on my machine and I'm sure on other peoples as well. I wish you people would not exaggerate the negatives and start accentuating the positives. you really make me sick. Devildog
I agree!!!!!!!

[ReallyDedPoet]

http://www.scsc.k12.ar.us/2002ArkNatHist/Projects/ArnoldL/Images/Armadillo_dead_a02.jpg

Agree with Ducimus on this one :roll:, this thread needs to go.

RDP

[TDK1044]

I think we're done here. Closing thread.