Helmsman mod

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

I've been reading Buchhiems book The U-Boat War and was wondering if anyone at all has tryed to develop a mod that ads the area where the helmsman sits in the boat, which is inbetween the Control Room and the part where the attack periscope is inside the Conning Tower?

[Raus]

You mean to the left and behind the bow planesman? And I don't think there is.

[GoldenRivet]

The planesmen are in the control room, the helmsmen who controls the rudder sits up in the conning tower IIRC. with nobody occupying that station you kinda have to wonder who is driving the boat!?

on the other hand i think it might get quite lonely up there .

[Jimbuna]

Not as far as I am aware :nope:

[Sailor Steve]

I'm pretty sure there were two helm positions. The one in the conning tower was used when running an attack, but there was also one at the front of the control room.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a325/SailorSteve/wmplayer2006-06-2214-18-51-14.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a325/SailorSteve/wmplayer2006-06-2214-19-15-21.jpg

A mod has been done to move the observation periscope to its proper position, but no-one has yet made the attack 'scope housing in the control room.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a325/SailorSteve/wmplayer2006-06-2307-48-26-78.jpg

Photos are from U-boote Westvarts (1941) which (I think) was filmed inside an actual boat.

[mr chris]

U-boote Westvarts was filmed aboard U124 or 123 i belive.

[SquareSteelBar]

I'm pretty sure there were two helm positions. The one in the conning tower was used when running an attack, but there was also one at the front of the control room.
Hi mate,

that's not quite right.
The one helmsman in the conning tower was operating the rudder [port/starboard] - not only when attacking but always.

The helmsmen in the control room were operating the dive planes.

Greeting,
SquareSteelBar :know:

[Sailor Steve]

Look again at the first picture. The guys on the planes were called 'planesmen', and you can see both of them side-by-side, right behind the helmsman on the rudder wheel.

It wouldn't make much sense under normal conditions to have the captain in the control room and the helmsman a deck above him where orders have to be shouted to be heard.

[SquareSteelBar]

Ah, I know what you mean. The rudder wheel in the control room is the emergency manual rudder.

In normal case the rudder station really was in the conning tower, hydraulic operated like the dive planes.

Pics of U995 (http://www.space-port.de/SH3/u995.html#u995) Note the texts above the pics.

More (http://www.uboot995.homepage.t-online.de/index.htm/index.html)

[Jimbuna]

Surely the helmsman wasn't locked in the conning tower alone during an emergency situation ? :hmm:

[3Jane]

In his book 'u-boat war' Lothar-Gunther Buchheim describes being given a brief stint at the helmsman's position in the conning tower during a quiet period. Presumably there must have been a helm position in somewhere in the rest of the boat for other times. Wouldn't be a nice place to be during a depth charge repost. But there again, no place in the boat would be :-?
In another book (I forget the title, must try to find it again sometime) describing coastal command's campaign against the u-boats in the bay of biscay. One u-boat helmsman was the only one of the crew, other than the flak crews on deck, to survive when the boat suddenly went down after sustaining damage from a Dutch bomber. One of ten aircraft circling the three boat group at the time. So he was in the tower position during surface action at least. Two of the boats were sunk at the time, the third being sunk by depth charges later by a hunter-killer group tasked to head towards the scene.

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

In his book 'u-boat war' Lothar-Gunther Buchheim describes being given a brief stint at the helmsman's position in the conning tower during a quiet period. Presumably there must have been a helm position in somewhere in the rest of the boat for other times. Wouldn't be a nice place to be during a depth charge repost. But there again, no place in the boat would be :-?
In another book (I forget the title, must try to find it again sometime) describing coastal command's campaign against the u-boats in the bay of biscay. One u-boat helmsman was the only one of the crew, other than the flak crews on deck, to survive when the boat suddenly went down after sustaining damage from a Duth bomber. One of ten aircraft circling the three boat group at the time. So he was in the tower position during surface action at lest. Two of the boats were sunk at the time, the third being sunk by depth charges later by a hunter-killer group tasked to head towards the scene.
See now this is what I'm talking about!! From what I read Buchhiem said that there was in the type VII-B VII-C's had a helmman in the conning tower and and emergancy rudder control in the aft of the where the e motors where. Found in the chapter called "test dive".

[Jimbuna]

Wouldn't be a nice place to be during a depth charge repost. But there again, no place in the boat would be

Too bleedin right!! :o

[jcalonso]

:know: Just to clarify things about the helm's position in a VIIC, i attach some pictures I found on uboat.net which clearly show the helmsman position inside the conning tower very close to the attack periscope (as per accompanying text, the photographer was pressing hard his back against the scope). I also have found some schematics of the VIIC type showing an emergency wheel for rudder control just before the aft torpedo compartment and after the battery status panel. I wonder if the big red wheel that partially shows after the panels in the photos is this emergency wheel. May some of the experts out there could further clarify these things. Here is the link to the photos: http://uboat.net/gallery/index.html?gallery=U995C . Best Regards.

http://uboat.net/gallery/index.html?gallery=U995C&img=9

http://uboat.net/gallery/index.html?gallery=U995C&img=1

[Spytrx]

According to Hartmann it is so too - there is an excerpt from his book in another thread here (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=530176&postcount=6) that talks about it...

[jcalonso]

Going back to the original purpose of this trend, it would be pretty cool if someone could model the rudderman in its conning tower position near the attack scope. It will involve some remodelling of the attack scope room and the inclusion of the planesman pushing the rudder hydraulic buttons. I'm pretty sure there is some modellers out there who can do this without much trouble.... Diving Duck...Anvart...?????:D :D :D :D

[Kaleu. Jochen Mohr]

U-boote Westvarts was filmed aboard U124 or 123 i belive.

i guess it will be U-124.
i have a book of U-124 and i guess it is based on the film

[Argus]

AFAIK there were two stations for the helmsman: one in the tower and the usual one shown on my picture of the control room (http://www.space-port.de/SH3/24.htm). A handwheel existed in the rear torpedo room for emergencies only (the one that can be seen in jcalonso's post or here (http://www.space-port.de/SH3/3.htm).

The station in the control room was only used while the boat was submerged. The bulkhead to the conning tower was closed during this time.

I remember a book where the captain was very angry on one of his look-outs (? = "Wachoffizier"), when he hadn't closed the upper bulkhead of the conning tower properly. While the boat was submerged the tower compartment was filled up with water and the captain feared that he had to abort the whole mission, because of the damage that could have been caused by the water. Because the lower bulkhead (into the command room) was closed, no water inrush occured. After they reached the surface again they had to drain the tower into the command room but no helmsman *in* the tower was drowned. ;)

But SH3 got it somewhat right not to show the helmsman at the position in the control room, because usually the uboats of that time travelled not submerged, so the helmsman was in the conning tower.

Coming back to the beginning of this thread: a mod would have to model both situations: on the surface and submerged. The helmsman would have to sit in different positions ... and this would mean a second mod of the tower would be needed too. :hmm:

[von Zelda]

Regarding the position of the helmsman: IIRC, there were actually three positions for steering the boat. A small box with 2 levers on top (similar to the controls used by the planesmen) was located (1) on top of the conning tower, (2) in the conning tower along with the TDC and attack scope, and (3) in the control room facing forward near the planesman.

Look for a small box with two levers on top and BBC on the front. The rudder was controlled by pressing the levers on top. The letters "BBC" represented the company that manufactured the control box.

There was also an emergency control in the aft torpedo room; this was a wheel not a control box since it was to be used when the electric control boxes failed.

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

It turns out that the rudder control postions are modeled in SH3!! Theres the one in the control room, in the conning tower, and one on the bridge. Its just none of these are used in game, or theres not a person manning that station.

[gimpy117]

It turns out that the rudder control postions are modeled in SH3!! Theres the one in the control room, in the conning tower, and one on the bridge. Its just none of these are used in game, or theres not a person manning that station.

lets throw some creman in there! could we add a whole new room for the coning tower compartment?

and by the way, the conning tower compartment is the natural place for helmsman, it's between the two main stations that the captian/officer in command would be during opertation. so, all one would need to do is either pass a message i compartment up or down when it was desired to change rudder position.

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

It turns out that the rudder control postions are modeled in SH3!! Theres the one in the control room, in the conning tower, and one on the bridge. Its just none of these are used in game, or theres not a person manning that station.

lets throw some creman in there! could we add a whole new room for the coning tower compartment?

and by the way, the conning tower compartment is the natural place for helmsman, it's between the two main stations that the captian/officer in command would be during opertation. so, all one would need to do is either pass a message i compartment up or down when it was desired to change rudder position. All we need to do is model a bucket chair in the conn and get someone up there and there we go!

[gimpy117]

well sorry i cant render much more help other than moral support.
but hopefully we can put it in, it will be a lot more realistic and you'd feel less lonely in that conning tower.

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

Well Gimpy117 every thouht helps. I wish I could but I have no experiance to make something like that. Maybe someone elese could. *cough*Racerboy*cough*