Real Navigation Mod files - FINAL

[vanjast]

Well it seems I'm up and running again albeit slowly. What I'll do here, is link the files that are uploaded and you can download these as it happens.

The files that are not ready, will not be linked until ready.

Notes:
=====
This is more a do-it-yourself mod, and I've done it this way so that the supermod creators can incorporate it into the big mods. All the details are in the files and you can do this yourself. It's straight forward and easy.

Zip file details
===========

PDF readme first files:

(A) http://www.vanjast.com/NavMod/RealNav_ReadMe2.zip (1.7MB) (http://www.vanjast.com/NavMod/RealNav_ReadMe2.zip)

Contents:-

SH3_RNM_Intro.pdf - Basic introduction and background to the mod.
SH3_RNM_TheModInDetail.pdf - this is the file you refer to for making your own changes. It contains all the details of the mod.
SH3_RNM_UsingtheGameMod.pdf - This file is and example of one method one can use to navigate
SunAlmanacAndSpeedTable.pdf - This is the sun almanac that was supposed to be used, until I found that the game clocks are inaccurate. I've left it here for reference. At the end of the file is a Knot/KPH conversion table, you'll need this.
WLN.pdf - This is the best document I could find on the net that describes almost everything you'll need to know about celestial navigation. Well done to Wong Lee Nah!


StarMaps that can be used for star identification. They're big BMP scans.

(B) http://www.vanjast.com/NavMod/EquatorStarMap.zip (64MB) (http://www.vanjast.com/NavMod/EquatorStarMap.zip)

(C) http://www.vanjast.com/NavMod/NHemisphereStarMap.zip (35MB) (http://www.vanjast.com/NavMod/NHemisphereStarMap.zip)

(D) http://www.vanjast.com/NavMod/SHemisphereStarMap.zip(38MB) (http://www.vanjast.com/NavMod/SHemisphereStarMap.zip)
(http://www.vanjast.com/NavMod/SHemisphereStarMap.zip%20%2835MB%29)
(E) http://www.vanjast.com/NavMod/WorldMap.zip (33MB)

Contents:-
These are large BMP format star(night sky) maps that you can use for star identification and more advanced navigation. They were scanned section by section and then placed together as best as I could, to give you a BIG picture.


The JSGME format Mod file

(F) http://www.vanjast.com/NavMod/RealNavMod.zip (47MB) (http://www.vanjast.com/NavMod/RealNavMod.zip)

Contents:- (check this file as the upload was broken - did it in 2 parts)
This file contains the mod in the standard JSGME mod format that is required to implement his Generic Mod enabler. Please consult the SH3_RNM_TheModInDetail.pdf for these details.

If you have numurous mods already installed in your game, I recommend you install this mod manually according to this document. Installing with JSGME just backs up and replaces files, and I don't think (I haven't tried it yet) that file merger utility will do a decent job here.

Extra addition
Navigators Log sheet/book... You can do something similar with MS-Orrifice, that suites you.
Here is what I used with testing the mod...

(G) http://www.vanjast.com/NavMod/NavigatorsLog.pdf (3KB)


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
As each file is uploaded I'll post a 'Bump' reminder.

If there are any questions give me a 'tinkle'
I hope to improve on this with regard to Longitude calulations and the game clock.
I'll be taking a break from doing this until probably the next patch for SH4 comes out, as I would like to convert the whole project into SH4.

Enjoy
Van :up:

[vanjast]

BUMP - (D) SOUTHERN HEMISPHERE STARMAP IS UP.......

:up:

[poor sailor]

I have one question, where is the link for (F) RealNavMod.zip (47MB) ?

[vanjast]

I'm busy with that upload at this moment.. My upload speed is SLOOWWWW

I'll 'bump' and set the link when it's uploaded (another 1:10:00... @#$@%#% to go)
:up:

[poor sailor]

I'm busy with that upload at this moment.. My upload speed is SLOOWWWW

I'll 'bump' and set the link when it's uploaded (another 1:10:00... @#$@%#% to go)
:up:
No problem, will wait for that!:up: Thanks!

[poor sailor]

Sorry for another question, the first link (A) http://www.vanjast.com/NavMod/RealNav_ReadMe2.zip (1.7MB), gave me a message "You don't have permission to access /NavMod/ on this server."

edit: Now I have It!

[vanjast]

Sorry, I only linked the folder there, I've included the file as well in the link
Looks like all the links have gone for a wobbly - corrected those, should be ok now.
:up:

[poor sailor]

vanjast, You should edit your links on your first post to avoid problems the other users may have. For example there should be like this: (A) http://www.vanjast.com/NavMod/RealNav_ReadMe2.zip (1.7MB)
(B) http://www.vanjast.com/NavMod/EquatorStarMap.zip (64MB)
(C) http://www.vanjast.com/NavMod/NHemisphereStarMap.zip (35MB)
(D) http://www.vanjast.com/NavMod/SHemisphereStarMap.zip (35MB)
You may not have the right direction to the links if you put the whole words in url, like (A), (1.7MB)...Hope you understand, what I mean. Another thanks for your work.

[vanjast]

BUMP - (F) RealNavMod files are up...

I actually lost the world map file... I'll look for those and post it later.

Yup, I've just picked up the funny links now.. all done, should be ok now well they worked on my Box (PC)
:up:

[vanjast]

Poor_Sailor... are the links OK on your side ??

[poor sailor]

Poor_Sailor... are the links OK on your side ??
Well, I don't know whats happened, now everything is o.k. I tried It. The first time I tried, for example the B, C gave me the same (Shemisphere Star map), and link D get me on subsim.com. Now everything is going to be O.K. Sorry if I made a confusion.:oops:

[vanjast]

I discovered the mistakes between our posts and corrected them...
Can you check the (f) RealNavMod.zip file for corruption. I had to resume uploading after my net went down..

Thanks
Van
:up:

[poor sailor]

I discovered the mistakes between our posts and corrected them...
Can you check the (f) RealNavMod.zip file for corruption. I had to resume uploading after my net went down..

Thanks
Van
:up:
I'm downloading this file, right now. Will post the results if file have any problems in archive or not. All another files are o.k.

[poor sailor]

Everything is O.K with the RealNavMod.zip I just downloaded and checked It. Tommorow I will try to include Your mod in GWX and give It a try to sail like real U-boot captain.:up:

[vanjast]

Okey Dokey... I'm off to sleep now.
I've found that world map - will post it tomorrow

:up:

[vanjast]

BUMP ME ..

(E) http://www.vanjast.com/NavMod/WorldMap.zip (33MB)

...is now avaiable.
This is a large world relief map, that can be edited to what you'd like. It can be used as a wall map on a magnetic backing board, where you can place convoys, subs, etc..
Similar idea to the Western Approaches Control room of WW2, except much smaller.

:up:

[KLARCH]

I've been waiting for this.

Time to start a new career.

Thanks vanjast.:up:

[Miss Behavin]

Now THIS really rocks!!!

Being a realism nut, this looks like something I can really get into.

Thanks for all your hard work.

Cheers!

[vanjast]

BUMP ME... DUMP ME!!

Added an example of a Navigators log sheet/book that you can use to keep track of your where-abouts.

Look at section
(F) http://www.vanjast.com/NavMod/NavigatorsLog.pdf (3KB)

:up:

[kys2000]

I want your mod be integrate into my MOD, Attack Japan MOD1.2.

WHAT time do you give the download ?

thank your works very much !

[Kataki]

Very cool, maybe over my head, but something I am definetly intrested in. After I get the basics down pat I'll have to give your mod a go :)

[kevtherev]

I have downloaded and installed the mod into GWX using JSGME without any big problems. The only thing I noticed is that my subs 'direction flag' is still visible. As far as I can gather, all other aspects are fine, your sextant is a wonderful object, must find out how to use it but until the problem with the sub indication is solved there is not much use as I can still see the position of my sub. Any help forthcoming on this ! By the way I only did a JSGME instal, no manual file corrections etc. Exciting mod when sorted out and gives me yet another learning curve. Well done sir, cannot wait for SH4 version. :up:

[vanjast]

kys2000 :- Go for it - It's free for anyone to include in any mod, without any restrictions. The downloads are currently available in the myfirst post on page #1.

kevtherev:- I have NYGM2.2 running and GWX might a few extra commands that NYGMdoesn't has. If you uninstall the mod and compare the 1024x768.INI files you will see the differences there. Also GWX, might have renamed the sub map icons.

I must still go through it with GWX. Maybe it will be quicker to check with the creators of GWX, as they'll be able to quickly compare the differences ! I posted it like this so the SuperMod creators can include it in their next mod versions, as I did not want it to have compatibility problems.

(I should really learn to control my keyboard putting in miss-spelt words !!)

:up:

[terrapin]

all files are now available through a dedicated DLC section (http://picturehost.realsimulation.com/UBRS_DLC/category.php?id=33)also.

[Mav87th]

Freaking Cool

Now what are the odds that this magnificent mod can be enjoyed in SH4 as well....:up:

[latemail]

THX a lot !!!!

it´s a great mod and a superb "educational work" ...... many interesting hours with the boat and the stars :up:

i will test it as soon as possible

[mikaelanderlund]

Very cool mod!

how do you get lat. and long. in bad weather which sometimes last for weeks in SHIII? How do you keep the course in stormy weather?

Mikael

[Kumando]

Very cool mod!

how do you get lat. and long. in bad weather which sometimes last for weeks in SHIII? How do you keep the course in stormy weather?

Mikael

You dont, you travel by dead reckoning (the process of estimating one's current position based upon a previously determined position, or fix, and advancing that position based upon known speed, elapsed time, and course).

[mikaelanderlund]

I have tried:) , but after a week or two in stormy weather I'm lost:cry: mainly because of difficulty of keeping track of course and speed.

Mikael

[Kumando]

I red the readme on the mod but i have some doubts, if the ingame map has no longitude/latitude marks how can you fix your position in the game map? And if at the time being you can only fix latitude how is this useful? You also need longitude!I dont want to criticise your work in a negative manner but i think il stick with my manual navigation method inspired by Dantenoc and Corsair till this mod is more complete.

[Kumando]

I have tried:) , but after a week or two in stormy weather I'm lost:cry: mainly because of difficulty of keeping track of course and speed.

Mikael

Thats what real U-boat skippers had to face in reality:-? .

[mikaelanderlund]

I think real U-boat skippers also used radio transmitters on land to plot the intersection.

[jimmie]

:up::up:

[vanjast]

Longitude is a problem at the moment as the game GMT clock jumps around depending where you are when you save your game.
There is a method of working this out, which I'm still busy with. It just requires a lot more effort, so I'm trying to simplify it.

You can at the moment use the HOUR time difference between the Local and GMT clocks, plus the sunrise sunset almanac. Be carefull of the 2 times jumping around, If you note this you should have fewer problems. The current alamac game time difference looks to be around 4 minutes (1 degree Longitude).

A trick you'll pickup is that the interior sub lights switch from red to white (and visa versa) at the game sunrise/set, irrespective of the weather conditions - You now have your sunrise/sunset times in bad weather. A quick look at the almanac and you get your position within about 2 degrees.

I'll post a PDF when I've finished.

[vanjast]

I red the readme on the mod but i have some doubts, if the ingame map has no longitude/latitude marks how can you fix your position in the game map?
I realised this when I started with the mod, and inserted a Lat/Long grid into the map which is supplied in the mod - the only problem here is the grid colour, not having the colour pallete available and not wanting to do 256 restarts just for colour I chose a colour that is visible over sea.


.. And if at the time being you can only fix latitude how is this useful? You also need longitude!I dont want to criticise your work in a negative manner but i think il stick with my manual navigation method inspired by Dantenoc and Corsair till this mod is more complete.
I thought I had this wrapped up until I discovered the games 'wobbly' clocks. My previous reply indicates where I'm headed with this. You can use this method but one has to be aware of the pitfalls, untill I or somebody else comes up with a better Clock method.
Longitude is still calculable to within about 1 degree so far, so it's nearly there.

With SH4 I'm glad the grid IS there, and the sub clock looks centred on the sailing port. Hopefully all the Celestial objects are still accurate. Then I can make an almanac that is specific for each base. this should help get rid of the longitude problem.
:up:

[vanjast]

On my first serious Navmod Career, sunk this ship ~100Km SW of Bergen.
It's nice to see Captain's going down with their ships. Are these heroes still around ??
:lol:
http://www.vanjast.com/SH3Pics/CaptainSunk.jpg

[Kataki]

hah getting large amounts of tonnage will be quite a challenge with this mod :)

[KLARCH]

Longitude is still calculable to within about 1 degree so far, so it's nearly there.:up:

I've yet to try this mod yet but it seems to me that you shouldn't go crazy trying to work around a prob with game code issues, i.e. the game clock. If it's possible to get within 1 degree of actual position, that seems good enough for me.

I can't wait for the weekend, as I plan on setting off in a new career and figure how to do this and play as realistically as I can.

Thanks again for this mod.:up:

[Kumando]

I red the readme on the mod but i have some doubts, if the ingame map has no longitude/latitude marks how can you fix your position in the game map?
I realised this when I started with the mod, and inserted a Lat/Long grid into the map which is supplied in the mod - the only problem here is the grid colour, not having the colour pallete available and not wanting to do 256 restarts just for colour I chose a colour that is visible over sea.


:up:
But what map is this? Does the mod alter the ingame map or is it a external map provided by the mod?

[vanjast]

But what map is this? Does the mod alter the ingame map or is it a external map provided by the mod?

I've placed a grid over the game map (../Terrain/maps/map1(map2) - cannot remember exact location - at work). it's in the RealNavMod.zip file If you're zoomed in to close you won't see the grid, zoomed out you'll see it.
:)

[mikaelanderlund]

Longitude is a problem at the moment as the game GMT clock jumps around depending where you are when you save your game.
There is a method of working this out, which I'm still busy with. It just requires a lot more effort, so I'm trying to simplify it.

You can at the moment use the HOUR time difference between the Local and GMT clocks, plus the sunrise sunset almanac. Be carefull of the 2 times jumping around, If you note this you should have fewer problems. The current alamac game time difference looks to be around 4 minutes (1 degree Longitude).

A trick you'll pickup is that the interior sub lights switch from red to white (and visa versa) at the game sunrise/set, irrespective of the weather conditions - You now have your sunrise/sunset times in bad weather. A quick look at the almanac and you get your position within about 2 degrees.

I'll post a PDF when I've finished.

I didn't think about interior sub lights switch from red to white (and visa versa) at the game sunrise/set. I will give your mod a new try this evening:up: . Great mod!

Mikael

[vanjast]

I didn't think about interior sub lights switch from red to white (and visa versa) at the game sunrise/set. I will give your mod a new try this evening:up: . Great mod!

Mikael

:) - I didn't notice this either until a few weeks ago, while testing the almanac times. Although real world astronomy/nautical stuff defines sunrise and sunset differently, The game sub interior lights switch when the sun is only half visible on the horizon, going up or down. This is one aspect that make the times different from the real world almanac times.

The game sun takes 5-6 minutes, from the top rim appearing to the bottom rim touching the horizon. The game light switch is midway, So I'm thinking of adjusting all the almanac times to this light switch time, so all is synchronised.

I'm a sucker for more work
:up:

[bruschi sauro]

This mod work very fine, is very tought....but in this moment I have a small problem.
:oops: I'm lost in the Atlantic...where i'm in this moment?:oops:

[vanjast]

This mod work very fine, is very tought....but in this moment I have a small problem.
:oops: I'm lost in the Atlantic...where i'm in this moment?:oops:
Here's a quickie doc that I threw together to help you...

http://www.vanjast.com/NavMod/QuickNavGuide.pdf
:up:

[bruschi sauro]

thank you mate.:yep:

[Georg_Unterberg]

vanjast,

it's fantastic to see your mod developing more and more !:up:

Do you have a source for a nautical star almanac from 1939-45 - with all the necessary data of major fix stars?

I wonder if its possible to get a position fix by method of shooting 3 stars "nautical triangle". I don't know how accurate SH3 models the position of all the stars from years 39-45, maybe you know more about this vanjast?

[vanjast]

vanjast,

it's fantastic to see your mod developing more and more !:up:

Do you have a source for a nautical star almanac from 1939-45 - with all the necessary data of major fix stars?

I wonder if its possible to get a position fix by method of shooting 3 stars "nautical triangle". I don't know how accurate SH3 models the position of all the stars from years 39-45, maybe you know more about this vanjast?

I've got a Navigation piece of software that I think, has all the star data in, from 3000BC to 3000AD. I'll get around to this as at a later stage, as I must still get the Longitude clock sorted out.

Considering that it's only a 6 year period, out of a 26,000 year cycle - I'm sure the triangulation method will work. I did a fix on Mintaka in Irion's belt from the southern hemisphere and this was accurate enough, so yes, the accuracy looks to be there. Naturally we must check the whole lot though.

[vanjast]

On my first mission with this mod I managed to arrive at the northern tip of the Hebrides (I think it's called), the island chain that has Lewick in it.

I arrived about 4 hours before my calculated time, after been harassed 3x by a/c, leaving my course to sink a ship, 3 days of rain,sleet and snow, 2 days of mirror seas.

I left the Kristiaansand area and set course for the northern tip of Scotland. I arrived soon after noticing the depth beneath keel was reducing (land nearby), but did not have a clue where I was - I'm too early??

Looking through my scope ( I was running submerged during the daytime - after 3x a/c attacks), I could barely make out land in the mist and gale force winds. surfaced and turned north to 2 hours. then set course 270 for 6 hours. No land was encountered.

i had reached the right area, and I'm into the north atlantic from here...
First time for me, and I find myself developing methods for quick nav on the way.
:up:

[Mav87th]

With SH4 I'm glad the grid IS there, and the sub clock looks centred on the sailing port. Hopefully all the Celestial objects are still accurate. Then I can make an almanac that is specific for each base. this should help get rid of the longitude problem.
:up:

Yea that was my asumption - i have tried to tickle with it, but can not get the Sixtant to be draggable...

Copying the menuxxxxx.dat entry directly over to the SH4 menuxxxx.dat does not cut it. - Im going to try looking at the stock clock that is draggable.

[Georg_Unterberg]

oops,
using the sextant and playing in higher resolution than 1024x768 is no good.
Tried to get a fix on polaris at ~59 deg Latitude, but it's way off. I can't even measure it - neither from horizon nor from zenit.

This is a side effect of the higher resolution, I'm playing in 1280x1024 (using well known higher resolution workaround).


oh well...

[vanjast]

Yea that was my asumption - i have tried to tickle with it, but can not get the Sixtant to be draggable...

Copying the menuxxxxx.dat entry directly over to the SH4 menuxxxx.dat does not cut it. - Im going to try looking at the stock clock that is draggable.

Many of us have tried to make draggable objects in SH3, similar in SH4 and none so far have worked. It's a problem at the moment.


using the sextant and playing in higher resolution than 1024x768 is no good.

The way I made the sextant scales was to make a single mission at positions 0, 10, 20...80 North (90 N sort of put you on top of the world/ice ans you sink ).

I'd line up the bottom of my screen with the horizon, Then, with Polaris in the horiztontal cebtre (x-axis), measure with a ruler (yup a normal school ruler) the distance to it. I'd then use these individual measurements to set the 10' scales and then scale the units between each 10'.
You can either do this yourself or send me your measurements and I'll make a sextant pic.

I suspect the scaling will be the same for 1024x768, where the screen height gives you 0-60 degrees. If Polaris is between 60 - 90, you move the POV (screen view)as high up as possible (so you're looking straight up) and start the process again from 60-90 N.
The 60' angle should now be at the bottom of your screen.

:up:

[mikaelanderlund]

oops,
using the sextant and playing in higher resolution than 1024x768 is no good.
Tried to get a fix on polaris at ~59 deg Latitude, but it's way off. I can't even measure it - neither from horizon nor from zenit.

This is a side effect of the higher resolution, I'm playing in 1280x1024 (using well known higher resolution workaround).


oh well...

I have the same problem:cry:

Mikael

[vanjast]

I'll create a higher res sextant, but I cannot test it on my screen.
Are you OK to check it out yourselves ?
:cool:

[mikaelanderlund]

I'll create a higher res sextant, but I cannot test it on my screen.
Are you OK to check it out yourselves ?
:cool:

Yes please! No problems:up: .

Mikael

[vanjast]

Okey Dokey.. I'll start with 1280x1024 res

Are there any other resolutions used. What I'll do it go with the resolutions, that are in SH4, but these will have to be individually tested by people with these screens.
Also the 1024x768.INI file input will probably have to be changed as well, regarding the height of the sextant image.

It'll take a few days as I have RL stuff to do.
:up:

[Georg_Unterberg]

thanks vanjast, will do some more tests in 1280x1024 and different angles on polaris. Trying to see how big the error is.

edit:
with 1280x1024 res I get these angles on polaris:

28° (at 20° lat - enabled marker to get real position)
36° (at 25° lat)
43° (at 30° lat)
49,5° (at 35° lat)
56,5° (at 40° lat)

stars around 58 - 64° elevation are not measurable. also looking upwards is no good reference, so you get additional errors when shooting stars at high elevations.

I wonder if this could be solved.

Okey Dokey.. I'll start with 1280x1024 res

Are there any other resolutions used. What I'll do it go with the resolutions, that are in SH4, but these will have to be individually tested by people with these screens.
Also the 1024x768.INI file input will probably have to be changed as well, regarding the height of the sextant image.

It'll take a few days as I have RL stuff to do.
:up:

[Kumando]

So what method are you guys using to fix longitude with this mod?

[Mav87th]

Rely good idea making a real sextant to put on the screen.

I think ill use a transparrent sheet and mark on that one. That can be lined up all along the buttom of the screen and up along one side giving high presicion for all placements.

[vanjast]

Rely good idea making a real sextant to put on the screen.

I think ill use a transparrent sheet and mark on that one. That can be lined up all along the buttom of the screen and up along one side giving high precision for all placements.

This is how I did the original. Once you have that you use the ratios to mark off the scale on the image.

Say from..
1) 0-10 = 30mm
10-20 = 28mm
20-30 = 25mm
.
.
80-90 = 25mm

You totalise the mm (say 300)
your vertical resolution is 1024

0-10 scale will be marked at (30/300) x 1024 = 102.4 pixels high
So 10 marker is at 102(103)

Now the unit scales 1,2,3,...8,9 will be marked off at every 102.4/10 = 10.24 pixels

and so on up the scale..

I'll post a picture on this, as well, later.
:up:

[vanjast]

So what method are you guys using to fix longitude with this mod?

I'm on a first serious mission and have used the GMT clock (lower right), with the almanac. It seems like the GMT clock might be locked onto your home base, instead of greenwich (I might have been mistaken first time) as I decided to do all my Longitude calcs on this basis.
My first plot was dead reckoning and ended up being 4 hours out, but he second time I decided to use the clock after 5 days on gale force winds and rain, I'd got a clear patch of sky, did a sextant reading and then later Longitude based on homebase time.

I found myself ~50km out on dead reckoning, but Longitude was spot on and located land a few hours later. I'll carry on testing this idea and come back later with results.

:up:

[mikaelanderlund]

Okey Dokey.. I'll start with 1280x1024 res

Are there any other resolutions used. What I'll do it go with the resolutions, that are in SH4, but these will have to be individually tested by people with these screens.
Also the 1024x768.INI file input will probably have to be changed as well, regarding the height of the sextant image.

It'll take a few days as I have RL stuff to do.
:up:

Any news with 1280x1024 res sextant?

Mikael

[Kumando]

vanjast i have another question, is it possible to take sun shots with this mod or we can only take starshots?

[mikaelanderlund]

vanjast i have another question, is it possible to take sun shots with this mod or we can only take starshots?

Yes that's possible but we don't have a functional clock on the boat so you don't know when sun is in zenit:cry:

Mikael

[mikaelanderlund]

So what method are you guys using to fix longitude with this mod?

If you know the lat. by using the sextant, you can use the sun set/rise tabel to fix your long.

Mikael

[vanjast]

vanjast i have another question, is it possible to take sun shots with this mod or we can only take starshots?

Yup! you can do the lot, but as mikaelanderlund says, the zenith almanacs have to be made up for this, and the educational docs on these as, as you probably know, the sun's path is a wierd one.

I've igored this (as well as triangulation) up till now as I wanted to concentrate on getting the basics going and the testing of it has taken some time. We can still build on this making a whole course on it's own (heh heh) - That's if it works for SH3(4) that is.

I'll put the 1024 scale sextant together this week-end
:up:

[Notewire]

Hiya fellas. I took a hiatus - the whole real world life thing. I am just getting my system up and running again and restacking all my mods. Currently I have loaded Vanilla - modded to 1.4 - Loaded Gwx 1.3. I got my JSGME back up, and my SH3Cmdr. I wanted to load JCWolf's mod pack - which has a lot of goodies that I really like.

I really love the Real Navigation Mod, does this work with the 6-Dials mod? I saw that it is another drag on from the tower view - do the two conflict?

Has anybody played with the two of them together?

Thanks in advance for any help.
Very Respectfully,
Notewire.

[poor sailor]

Hiya fellas. I took a hiatus - the whole real world life thing. I am just getting my system up and running again and restacking all my mods. Currently I have loaded Vanilla - modded to 1.4 - Loaded Gwx 1.3. I got my JSGME back up, and my SH3Cmdr. I wanted to load JCWolf's mod pack - which has a lot of goodies that I really like.

I really love the Real Navigation Mod, does this work with the 6-Dials mod? I saw that it is another drag on from the tower view - do the two conflict?

Has anybody played with the two of them together?

Thanks in advance for any help.
Very Respectfully,
Notewire.
You need to manualy add the lines in menu_1024_768.ini file(which already used with 6dials) and also others files, this is described in excellent readme of this mod. And then this mod will be fully functional as should.

[Notewire]

I am a huge fan of this Mod, and love to use it to navigate.

Have we as a community come to the conclusion that the clock on my Boat is not accurate enough for Sun readings at sunrise/sunset? I had been using it for that purpose and had some (fairly accurate) success. Now, I can't match the naval academy 1000m rule, but I was getting some roughly close numbers in my test?

Has anybody else been using the sun tables to try to get their position?

Very Respectfully,
Notewire

[vanjast]

I am a huge fan of this Mod, and love to use it to navigate.

Have we as a community come to the conclusion that the clock on my Boat is not accurate enough for Sun readings at sunrise/sunset? I had been using it for that purpose and had some (fairly accurate) success. Now, I can't match the naval academy 1000m rule, but I was getting some roughly close numbers in my test?

Has anybody else been using the sun tables to try to get their position?

Very Respectfully,
Notewire

Notewire, there is a problem with the GMT clock (bottom right corner) and the local clock (that appears above the GMT clock) in that :-

1) the local clock Hour section updates according to your Longitude positions of increments of 7.5 degrees. So the between 7.5W-22.5W (and so on) the local clock hour time is an hour behind GMT. The minutes section so far is absolutely useless.

2) The mod almanac is accurate, as I've tested it at various longitude and latitude combinations and it is spot on as the GMT clock locks onto the nearest Longitude meridian. The problem come in when you reload a saved game, the GMT clock now changes it's reference point - usually Greenwich

So when starting at Kiel GMT ref is first at 15East but as you pass Greenwich en-route to the atlantic you most probably will save the game and reload later. Check the GMT clock. You now must make allowances for this change, and you'll find the almanac times still accurate enough.

:up:

[Notewire]

Alright, what a detailed answer, thanks Van. I guess I will always try to save my game EXACTLY on the Grenwich Meridian :rotfl: . It is good to know that it resets, I am going to continue to refine using the clock to get my approximate position, as it so far seems to be working given that I have some knowledge of my latitude.

Thanks again,
Notewire.

[Salvadoreno]

Sorry if this was covered, but is this compatible with GWX 1.03?? I dont think the changes made screw with anything important in GWX but i wanted to make sure!

[poor sailor]

Sorry if this was covered, but is this compatible with GWX 1.03?? I dont think the changes made screw with anything important in GWX but i wanted to make sure!
Yes, It's compatible. I using this mod in GWX, but You need to look at this thread http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=114812 there is something interesting in It about position of camera. Take a look on It.:up:

[Mav87th]

Status for getting this to work with SH4:

I have removed all traces of Submarine Icons

Tests of GMT times versus "Base Time" as the clock is called in SH4 shows, that sun sets and raises look to be just as usable as in SH3 even down to minutes.

The only problem that remains are WHAT TIME ARE BASE TIME ???

Below an example:

Game date - 22 november 1942 - located on E 144 deg 50 / N 26 deg 50

I started the stopwatch as the game clock changed minutes, so to have seconds available.

in 3D the sun SET was

Lower Limb - 19:15:00 @ 247 deg True

Center sun - 19:29:10 @ 248 deg True

Upper Limb - 19:40:15 @ 250 deg True


From Almanac data (Starcalc) the real GMT sun SET should be 17:05:00 @ 247 deg True

Difference (to center sun) is + 2 hours 14 minutes or - 16 hours and 36 minutes


3d measurement of Polaris were 310 deg True at 25 deg up from horizon at game Base time 19:57:00

The submarine were parked the same spot the whole time.


Now can anyone tell me what timezone the BaseTime is???

or if this corrosponds with my position lat/lng ?

[don1reed]

Hi Mav,

Here's something to try if you are, as you say, parked.

Get time and azimuth of upper limb of sun as he breaks starch in the A.M.

...fast forward (TC)

@ 12:00 Noon, (game time) get azimuth (should be 180° true...if not...the game makes an exception for the "equation of time" caused by the earth not being a perfect round sphere and it "shimmy's a bit on it's axis, causing real noon to be before or after 12:00 seasonally) and altitude (should be zenith (if possible)).

Finally, get time and azimuth of upper limb of sun as he ducks beneath the waves in the west.

Now divide length of daylight hours in half to find meridian time. Compare your calculated meridian time with that of StarCalc for the same location.

I'm presumming that "base time" in SH4 is "local" time.

As you know, in RL, the flat horizon is the basis for all altitude measurement for cel nav, it's extremely iffy to get altitudes >60° in any non-linear, segmented viewing platform.

EDIT: As you know, a real sextant operates very similar to the "split image Kollmorgan periscope" in SH4, pity the Dev's didn't go one step further and allow the scope to elevate to 90° so as to measure the angles of the celestial bodies in the heavenly canopy.

[Mav87th]

EDIT: As you know, a real sextant operates very similar to the "split image Kollmorgan periscope" in SH4, pity the Dev's didn't go one step further and allow the scope to elevate to 90° so as to measure the angles of the celestial bodies in the heavenly canopy.

That is not a problem if you desire it to be so......

a small simple change to one of the scopes in the camaras.dat file...


Im not sure what you ment with the calculations - could you make the example with these numbers Don1 ??

Game data:...............................Star Calc for the day

Sun at set - 08:26:00.............06:36:00
Noon - 13:47:00.............11:47:00 height 41 deg's
Sun at down - 18:59:00.............16:59:00

[don1reed]

@Mav:

Split image: A way to register degrees of elevation is needed and a way to make the split image function work without being centered "L key" on a ship.

-...-

Meridian time: (This is just an example of my suggestion)

Local date : 4 Feb 42
GMT date : 3 Feb 42

Location: 33° 37' N, 139° 21' E

Sunrise: 06:12:00 base time
Sunset: 17:14:49 base time

17:14:49
-6:12:00
11:02:49 = # of daylight hrs. divide in half = 05:01:24 add this to sunrise time = 11:13:24 <----this is real noon time in the sim if the sun is bearing 180° (true).

Further explanation: At Sunrise-Sunset...

The center of the sun is actually 50' (or 0.83°) below the horizon, the upper limb is 34' below the horizon.

[Mav87th]

So in the case of SH4 we have

Sun Set (center of sun)...18:59:00
Sun Rise (center of sun).-08:36:00
...................................10:23:00/2

.05:11:30
+08:36:00
13:47:30 witch is 1hour 47min 30sec different from the timezone noon at 12:00:00

the location is 30¨00'00 E and 150¨00'00 N Time Zone K= +10 hours

+10 hours
+1 hour 47min 30 sec
is +11 hours 47 min 30 sec of time difference to GMT

aka sunset at this spot should be at 08:11:30 GMT

Now im not really sure how all that corrosponds to where my position is. Don....

[don1reed]

Yeah, Mav, I came to the same conclusion. I was heading back to Pearl from patl off Honshu and came to "all stop" precisley at 32° 08'N, 150° 00' E, (the meridian acctually crossed the tower) and my SR/SS and LAN times were about 1 to 2 hours off from a real Navigation program I also use. My LAN (Local Apparent Noon) was 14:20 (Base time). I presume that the internal game clock will vary throughout the Pacific at this rate.

Navigation with that amount of error is strickly UNSAT. (You will not receive a "GO" at this station.)

If there is a "fix" for this anomoly, it may entail making the same experiment at each and every time-zone (Longitudes evenly divisible by 15). Without accurate time and/or the celestial canopy moving in sync with accurate time for the war years, there can be no precise navigation. I still have a sneaky suspicion that heavenly overlay in the sim is nothing but eye-candy.

What van did, IIRC, is tc through the sim (SH3) and compiled a table based on the red-light in sim turning on/off, indicating SR/SS. This as we know varies from real sr/ss or when a real navigation pgm says sr/ss occurs, they are not in sync. I believe that I read somewhere in this thread that "someone" should attempt to follow the same procedure to compile a sr/ss table for SH4 as well.

...or, has most of the work been done?

Did the Devs incorporate the celestial canopy used in SH3 into SH4 also? I presume they did, due to the quickness of putting SH4 onto the market...same engine...different part of the world.

[don1reed]

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j42/donhreed/Sunset.jpg

Here's an interesting pic of UL sun just dipping beneath the waves. My location: 28-15N 177-32W. What you see is the orange after-glow. The defined circumference of the sun has just disappeared.

Note the time: 18:45. (The interior "RED" light popped on at the same time!)

Well guess what...it seems that base time in SH4 is at the International Date Line, just west of Midway Is. 180°. All other times must then be computed by the player as they make their way across the Pacific.

18:45 btw coincides with my TI-86(Starpath) ephemeris calc/nav pgm., for SS at my posit also. :cool: Don't know if you can see my relative bearing of the sun as he dips, but it's 144° that also coincides with 258° true, the actual azimuth of the setting sun on the RL nav pgm. :)

Scope: #1 aka Observation scope.
Mod: RFB 1.28

[Mav87th]

Here's an interesting pic of UL sun just dipping beneath the waves. My location: 28-15N 177-32W. What you see is the orange after-glow. The defined circumference of the sun has just disappeared.

Note the time: 18:45. (The interior "RED" light popped on at the same time!)

Well guess what...it seems that base time in SH4 is at the International Date Line, just west of Midway Is. 180°. All other times must then be computed by the player as they make their way across the Pacific.



I bet you started that mission at PEARL HARBOR, but used the "start out of harbor" option, witch puts you at 179.59.8 E or something like that - just outside MIDWAY. This would then corrospond with that BASE TIME is tied to what spot you start at. Now the question is if it counts the minutes as well....

My indications here - starting docked from PEAR HARBOR - is that BASE TIME is timezone X -10 with a 4 minute delay.

Ill try going across the pond taking SR and SS at each timezone center.

[Mav87th]

Remember the fast method.

Note the RedLight BaseTime for Sun Set.

Wait for nightfall and sighting of Polaris.

Measure Polaris altitude (Hs)

Hs - 1 = Lattitude of your boat. (roughly but better then just the Hs)

From the Lat. look up SunSet in Van's Almanac.

Basetime Sunset is converted to GMT (for Pearl Harbor thats timezone X to GMT)

Difference in sunset is found and substracted/or added to the middle of your local timezone(you know aproximately how far you have traveled with speed over time at course)

Now you can plot your position at SunSet and extrapolate it with speedovertimeatcourse to your present position. Now stick a new course if necesary to reach your goal.

Do that every morning and evening and you will be safe. In the morning its the reverse order of course. First the polaris fix then the sun rise time.

[don1reed]

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j42/donhreed/GMTConverter.jpg

[Chisum]

Wow !
This mod looks very great !
But also very hard for a newbie like me.

It would be possible that you build some training missions with smooth objectives to let us work on the navigation ?

[ichso]

The only training you really need is to cheat a little at the beginning.
The ctrl+leftclick method has proven valuable but at my installation I could still use the 'plot course' icon, which wouldn't let pe actually plot my course but gave away my exact current position.
This and the theoretical knowledge should give you enough opportunity to practice. You can use the cheating methods to compare your results to your exact position and so on. So you can learn while playing the normal career mode ;). That is more fun and saves load times anyways.

Be warned though that sometimes there are some differences between the position you calculated and your actual one, no matter how careful you are. Sometimes it seems as if the time of sunrise isn't really acurate. The sunset times even don't seem to work at all.

Read this thread or:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=116837
this one for some experiences we made so far with the mod.
The manual that came with it explains the use of the sextant fairly well.

Have fun, i.

[Chisum]

Ok thank you.
I try it soon and I hope find the way to exit my own port lol.

When I was younger, I was an engineer officer in the merchant navy, but I have never to make the calculation of the road and I always wanted to know how it makes.

That will be fun !

;)

[Uber Gruber]

Any update on Kaleuns Freddies Quick Nav Guide ?

The copy I have mentions the following problems

1) We now are there somewhere, so to get a more accurate position we currently (this will change) have to wait for sunrise/sunset to take a GMT time reading (Local time is no good here).

2) When East of GMT the world ends – the clock times get messed up making calculations tedious (working on
this)

Thanks....

[ichso]

2) When East of GMT the world ends – the clock times get messed up making calculations tedious (working on
this)

Don't remember if he meant that the GMT clock gets messed up or the local time. But as you should get local time by SR time, this wouldn't matter.

[Uber Gruber]

Thanks again ischo. I hope to put together a complete doc for virgins like myself to ease the pain of diving into real naviagtion, it looks like it'll open up other subtle aspects of the game as well as provide a very rewarding and realistic experience (i've always hated the GPS nav system of stock)

Combining this with Hitman's work on manual targeting then hopefully we'll start getting some realistic patrol tonnages too.

[AndyW]

Hi Folks,

I am planning to make a long journey with a IX D2 using the Real Navigation Mod: Tranfsering a Monsoon Boat from Lorient, France to Penang, Malaysia.

I'm following these thread(s) and understand the problems with the SH weird clock but I didn't grasp on how to navigate on the southern hemisphere with this mod. There is no such thing like Polaris to easily catch the Latitude. The southern Cross and the bright Centauris stars would be a good substitute but alas they "move" around" during the night so I can't simply "shoot" the angle.

Is there any solution to this? While I'm not sure whether the Allied Destroyers and ASW planes make my question hypotetical anyway :dead: , I'm nevertheless interested if it's feasible to make such a long journey around half of the globe without getting completely lost.

Thanks for the help,
AndyW

[Kravixon]

Hi,

I'm very new to SH3 or any sub sim whatsoever, and the problem I'm having using this mod is that over great distance (or even medium) and with time compression, the manual course isn't held. Is there an easy way to maintain a steady course other than manual adjustments every so often.

I started at 1350 km leg after perfectly navigating to the shoreline from harbour and began the leg fine for about 24 hours. Over the next 24 hours (at 32x compression) I came back and found that the boat had turned 60 degrees off course in the semi-rough water.

_________________________

Thanks for the speedy reply, Mikhayl.

[KeldorKatarn]

It would really be interesting to get this fixed, not just for real navigation issues.

I recently waited on a 90° position to a convoy in rough weather and at night.. when the convoy was nearly in shooting position I noticed to my shock that I was 40° off course, and that had happened in just a few minutes!

I have never been on a ship trying to steer it but from my physical understanding of things there is absolutely no way the sea and the waves will actually TURN a ship 40° while it is not making any forward motion.. move it somewhere over time yes.. slightly turn it over a lot of time, yes.. but turn it nearly 45° over a couple of minutes?

This is really a bugger since it makes surface attacks in storms really bad. you always hhave to use the course plotting tool of the nav map and do at least 1 knot to stay on course and that way you make sound and run into positions where you don't want to be so sometimes you have to reverse engines which forces your to first come to a complete stop, then drag the course plotting tool 180° to the other direction, then reverse engines. if done otherwise the ship will start to turn because the stupid engine is trying to make the boat run backwards on that course...

This is really really annoying. I also can never set an intercept course even over a smallest distance, or a 90° attack course with the compass because my boat will always turn if not at a complete 0m/s wind speed.

I think if someone could fix this crap it would give SH3 a much better reality feeling. Drifiting off course is something different than turning, and from what I heard from modders, drifting happens additional to this stupid turning thing, so that wouldn't even have to be added....

[joegrundman]

I believe this is not true KeldorKatarn, and is why submarines rarely came to a full stop, and cetainly not when making an attack.

I believe you need a minimum speed to have steerage, that is for the rudder to work, and i guess for the hydroplanes too. If you come to a stop you will be affected by any small currents and eddies, and most importantly the wind will slowly cause your boat to point into the wind.

A submarine underwater at full stop will also find it hard to retain it's 3 D orientation and this could be upset even if someone moves from one compartment to another.

But the effect of wind and current should not effect your heading while at moving, as it is a simple task of using the rudder and looking at the compass. This feature of the game is horrible, and i wish it hadn't been done like this. Instead what should happen is that you get a deflection on your actual course while your heading remains constant, rather like happens with an airplane flying with some sort of cross wind.

[KeldorKatarn]

I believe this is not true KeldorKatarn, and is why submarines rarely came to a full stop, and cetainly not when making an attack.

I believe you need a minimum speed to have steerage, that is for the rudder to work, and i guess for the hydroplanes too. If you come to a stop you will be affected by any small currents and eddies, and most importantly the wind will slowly cause your boat to point into the wind.

A submarine underwater at full stop will also find it hard to retain it's 3 D orientation and this could be upset even if someone moves from one compartment to another.

But the effect of wind and current should not effect your heading while at moving, as it is a simple task of using the rudder and looking at the compass. This feature of the game is horrible, and i wish it hadn't been done like this. Instead what should happen is that you get a deflection on your actual course while your heading remains constant, rather like happens with an airplane flying with some sort of cross wind.

I know wind would turn me slowly, but not to this extreme extend, especially not with decks awash. The current will also not turn me, possible move me, but not turn me.

[Ktl_KUrtz]

Hi VanJast,
I cannot get this excellent mod to work with NYGM 3.0.
I am running no other mods than the above.
Is it compatable or is there a NYGM version?
Thanks in advance if you can help.
KUrtz

[Delareon]

i will also give that mod a try, looks very interesting to me.
But the issue about the useless helmsman how is always loosing his course...
how did u made your course changes?
did u use the rudder or did u use the compass?
my hope was when u use the compass maybe the helmsman can hold his course,
instead of modifying the rudder because then it looks ok for me if the helmsmann doesnt do anything to correct the course because the captain ordered the rudder to 0 degrees.

[Myxale]

i will also give that mod a try, looks very interesting to me.
But the issue about the useless helmsman how is always loosing his course...
how did u made your course changes?
did u use the rudder or did u use the compass?
my hope was when u use the compass maybe the helmsman can hold his course,
instead of modifying the rudder because then it looks ok for me if the helmsmann doesnt do anything to correct the course because the captain ordered the rudder to 0 degrees.

That's a bit more complicated.

The helmsman, who was sitting in the the tower -right next to the attack scope, had no real way of meeting the currents.

He was supposed to keep the needle of his compass rose at the ordered number. If the Boat - for example- was carried off 200 miles west, but his bow was still facing north the helmsman would still be on course, but not the boat.

This is where the navigator steps in. After shooting stars he was able to tell where exactly they were, and how far from the estimated course they drifted.

Whether you use the ruder, to correct the course or the the compass bearing, is the same in the end!

[Pisces]

The problem with the SH3 helmsman is that he 'goes away for a cup of coffee' when the uboot reached the ordered course and the rudder is settled amidship, but never corrects afterwards. After that your uboot is at the mercy of the waves. Only a waypoint would keep your uboot pointed in the same direction at all times. (apart from code hacking or a patch) Only that defeats the deadreckoning challenge, since the waypoint is fixed to some place on the SH3 world (and the line is shown), instead of just being a compass direction it follows.

[don1reed]

All meridians point North [South] (Great Circles). Just for education: A good thing to google is Uboat gyro compasses; and, the difference between magnetic compasses.

Good postings, everyone.

Cheers,

[Lanzfeld]

This GMT thing is messing me up. I understand GMT (I am a pilot) but just not in the game.

So if I save at 30 West the next time I load the GMT clock will be correct GMT or will it be my original base time?

[Ktl_KUrtz]

I cannot download the ReadMe!
Is the link broken?
KUrtz

[UberTorpedo]

I just tried the link and it's working ok. PM me if you still can't get the link to work and I'll get it to you some other way :):up:

cheers
UT

[6SJ7GT]

Vanjast,
when we worked out a way of navigating celestially in SH4, I made a set of nautical almanacs. I recently added the 1939 - 1940 almanacs and you are free to use them in your mod if you wish.

you can find them here;
http://hosted.filefront.com/6sj7gt/2231663

enjoy,
Mike

[Rodolph]

This mod may give the game a new dimension! I guess, cause I didnt got it runnin. Anyone here with GWX 2.1 + this outstanding intresting nav.mod? Will it work together?

bye, Rodolph

[Rodolph]

It don`t :shifty:

[Patchman123]

I'm having a problem with the Navigation mod in Silent Hunter III with GWX 3.0 mod. The problem is that it is giving me a "menu not found" error. What should I do? What did I do wrong? I'm using GWX 3.0.

[karamazovnew]

Patchman123, don't copy the files straight over. If u read the detailed description of the mod it'll show you which part of the menu.ini file to modify, and be carefull about the index. Just look around in that file to understand what value to put.


Cheers Van, thanks for the effort you put in this Mod. I've tried to make it work for a while but didn't manage it. I could never get correct readings with the sextant and I think it's because of the bridge camera fov (the Conning Deck Camera to be more precise). I used a fov of 60 but then I abandoned the idea of real navigation and later switched to a fov of 75. While sailing from Wilhelmshaven on a superb night I was so amazed by the beauty of the sky that I tried to find the Polaris star, and there it was, smack where your sextant used to show about 54 degrees :damn:.

So what fov did u use for that camera? I sail by dead reckoning anyway and CTRL-click at each sunrise and sunset to emulate the sextant. But I sure would like using those charts. Anyway, here's a few bright ideas I picked up while navigating.

1. Is there a way to pause the game at certain clock times? I keep missing my timed bearing changes.
2. Can you add a visibility option for the sextant when pressing a button? Maybe reroute the Plot Course button.

And here's the weird part I've found. Each day the sun rises at a different bearing range from true 90. Isn't this linked to the Latitude by the time of the year? I'll see if i can find any data on the net about this.

[karamazovnew]

Ok, I've done a bit of searching and finnaly found this page : http://www.locationworks.com/sunrise/2040.html#40

Just as I thought, you don't need to already know your Latitude to find your Longitude, just look through your periscope as the sun sets and rises and mark the bearing. Add that to your sub course to get the Azimuth of the sun. Find the closest matching day in the table and you'll at least know if you're at 40, 50, or 60 etc degrees of Latitude and then continue with your calculation to find your Longitude. I've seen it work in both SH3 and SH4(altough you need to adjust the base time to gmt). So no need for the sextant, but that leaves you with a vertical line of 600nm, while a good sextant would drop that value to 6 miles. So here's a few things that would make this navigation bit a really interesting choice for the realism buffs whithout being to overwhelming. Who knows, maybe they want to implement such a think in SH5. You'd just enable these from the dificulty menu with the option "Real Navigation" :up:.

1. a true sextant with subdivisions scale (Vernier scale). it's just a Periscope view with a buffed up dual lens stadimeter :O:
2. a hideable Lat/Long markings layer on the map, should be much better that the one in SH4 or at least explain how to get the minutes (60 miles in a degree, I know).
3. the ability to turn off all map markings for the sub, including a simpler course plotter that is neither glued to the sub, nor does it update the distances to waypoints while the sub moves. The line tool is not cut out for this.
4. better map marks, that let us edit the label on multiple lines (description, time: "hans' feet stink/18:47")
5. 1x time for game and message box with the message "Nav point reached" if you want to make those course changes manually.
6. clocks in game for GMT and Base time and maybe a large scale chronometer that you can reset whenever you want, great for manually timing those checkpoints.
7. a good values table similar to the one from the above link, that uses the actual game mechanism for the motion of the sky.
8. a drop down white map for the actual attack plotting. So that we don't clutter the navigation map to much. What I actually do in the game is go to the middle of the pacific and plot my attack there at a much greater scale to get rid of the line value issue.

and of course
9: the ability to automate all of this for the kaleuns who hate gps precission but don't want to waste time calculating. The Navigator Officer should have the following options:
-"Estimate current position along course" , which would simply place a mark on the map along the plotted course, simulating dead-reckoning.
-"Get Lat/Long Position" when the weather allows it, which would place a circle with an estimated true position and a label with the time (the diameter of which would depend on the navigator's experience).
-an "Autoupdate positions at sunrise/zenith/sunset" checkbox
-and a "Experience determines the time it takes to make the above calculations" option in the Menu.

During cruising mode, the navigator should be able to automatically adjust the course at each real position calculation. I should point out that any departures from normal cruising should brake the Navigator's routine and put him in a "behind the scenes continually try to plot course changes during attack and destroyer ping-pong" so that you don't get helplessly lost after a 6 hour attack procedure. Here, a "return to course" command would work just as it does know but it would introduce a considerable(but acceptable) ammount of deviation.

Phew finished :|\\. If you think this post was long, wait for my "SH5 Interior Interactivity" thread :har:.

[Patchman123]

http://en.netlog.com/Patchman123/photo/photoid=22156104#photoshttp://en.netlog.com/Patchman123/photo/photoid=22156104#photosI have a question. Is there a way to completely remove the sub from the map?
I want to REALLY navigate realistically. :yeah:
I want to get rid of this thing off the map.http://en.netlog.com/Patchman123/photo/photoid=22156104#photos

[ironcold]

I'm having a problem with the Navigation mod in Silent Hunter III with GWX 3.0 mod. The problem is that it is giving me a "menu not found" error. What should I do? What did I do wrong? I'm using GWX 3.0.
I am very interested for this mod.
there is no prblem with the maps and all the configuration i have to do.
But there is no sextant on my screen.
The menu 1024 is much bigger than in GWX 2.1.
Where is the position to implement the sextant in the menu 1024?:hmmm:
sorry for my bad english

[TigerShark808]

You know what would be sweet? Ok you know how you can fly just about any plane in the many flight sim games out there? Take off from almost any airport around the world. Well what about a sailboat/ship game where sailing the old fashion way, by the stars and sun shots would be the only way to get across vast oceans?

You could earn points-renown to upgrade your ships as you sailed different routes thru some of the worst weather. Transporting goods from port to port within a certain time frame. Missions like sailing into the pacific trying to follow routes that captains like Cook, Roggeveen and Magellan along with others took. And along the way even battling pirates. Pirates :rotfl:..I must be tired.

Just brain storming. Im sure others have thought of this already. I think I could go for a game like this.

Anyways Im bored :yawn: and this came across my tired mind. Goodnight !

[don1reed]

Hello mates,

Couldn't help overhearing the conversation gravitate to celestial navigation, so allow me to toss in my $0.02.

If you have not already done so, then check out this thread:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=135215&highlight=stellarium

or just do a 'search' for "stellarium".

All the best,

[liverd]

Hi there. Could anyone please reupp the navmaps. I would like to try this amazing mod but the links won´t work any more.

[fitzcarraldo]

Hi there. Could anyone please reupp the navmaps. I would like to try this amazing mod but the links won´t work any more.

Same request. Many thanks!

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

[fitzcarraldo]

vanjast, You should edit your links on your first post to avoid problems the other users may have. For example there should be like this: (A) http://www.vanjast.com/NavMod/RealNav_ReadMe2.zip (1.7MB)
(B) http://www.vanjast.com/NavMod/EquatorStarMap.zip (64MB)
(C) http://www.vanjast.com/NavMod/NHemisphereStarMap.zip (35MB)
(D) http://www.vanjast.com/NavMod/SHemisphereStarMap.zip (35MB)
You may not have the right direction to the links if you put the whole words in url, like (A), (1.7MB)...Hope you understand, what I mean. Another thanks for your work.

This links :down:....This is the request :DL

Many thanks.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

[Corsair]

http://en.netlog.com/Patchman123/photo/photoid=22156104#photoshttp://en.netlog.com/Patchman123/photo/photoid=22156104#photosI have a question. Is there a way to completely remove the sub from the map?
I want to REALLY navigate realistically. :yeah:
I want to get rid of this thing off the map.http://en.netlog.com/Patchman123/photo/photoid=22156104#photos

Here is a usable way :

Open the program files\silenthunteriii\data\menu\cfg directory and edit the maps.cfg file. Change the settings on the navigation map to:

[Map0]
MapID=Navigation_map
Position=0,0
Resolution=1024,656
MajorSqrs=4,2.4
MinorSqrs=5,5
PixPerUnit=50
ZoomLevels=1,2,5,10,20,50,100,200,500,1000,2000,40 00,7000,10000,20000,40000; meters per pixel
InitialZoom=20000;originalmente 500
SymbolZoom=20000;units are drawn as symbols from this zoom up originalmente 10
GroupsZoom=40000;units are drawn in groups from this zoom up originalmente 100
CityZoom=10000;city names are displayed from this zoom down
KriegZoom=2000;krieg labels are separated displayed from this zoom up
HarborZoom=50;harbors will be displayed from this zoom up

Having done so, open the program files\ubisoft\silenthunteriii\data\submarine folder, then choose the folder of your favorite sub, and edit the NSS_UboatXX_shp.TGA file, making it into something invisible (that's to say, just make the whole picture a transparent blank).

There you go, the only way to see your sub is to zoom way way out, wich won't help you much for the finer details of navigation, forcing you to rely on alternate methods.

Now, about faking the sextant, any time you deem that a decent navigator could calculate your exact position, press and hold the ctrl button while clicking with the mouse on a certain point on the nav-map, you'll notice that the nav-map will shift... your boat (even though you can't see it) is right there, under your mouse cursor, so mark that spot for later reference!

[Borgneface]

Hi there. Could anyone please reupp the navmaps. I would like to try this amazing mod but the links won´t work any more.


Oh yes please....I'd like to get them to!

[Yoriyn]

Sorry but I notice the StarMaps links do not work. Is there any other place where I can download them?

[SquareSteelBar]

Real Navigation Mod by vanjast (http://www.sendspace.com/file/06qkl2)

Hemisphere Star Maps by vanjast (http://www.sendspace.com/file/ieqoxr)

[Yoriyn]

Thank you.
Can anyone tell me where the sextant sholud be?
I can't find it. Is somewhere on the brigde screen? map?

Ok I found whats wrong.
In GWX on the place of sextant is big white compass.
How can I move sextant to right top corner?

[fitzcarraldo]

Thank you.
Can anyone tell me where the sextant sholud be?
I can't find it. Is somewhere on the brigde screen? map?

Ok I found whats wrong.
In GWX on the place of sextant is big white compass.
How can I move sextant to right top corner?

MaGUI interface (a very good variation of OLC GUI), contains the sextant installed. Installation recommended!

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

[Yoriyn]

This mod (MaGui) scare my, is so much changed. I don't know what to do with most of this things. I thing I better stay without realnav mod.

[Yoriyn]

Anyone can give a new link to Equator StarMap, old link is not working, please.

[SquareSteelBar]

Equator Star Map by vanjast (http://www.sendspace.com/file/fybai8)

[Yoriyn]

Thank you.

[Yoriyn]

Hi again
Today in my game I had a clear night sky, so I try sextant to find my latitude. I found a polaris on the sky. the angle was above 60 degres, but my position was around 55deg. Whats wrong?

Ok i found the problem. Problem is in MaGui 3.4 itself.

Problem solved after talking with makman94 autor of MaGui3.4. After instaling MaGui 3.4 change in camera.dat is needed. In node 64 (conning deck) change a angular angle from 68 to 75 (stock game value). After change starst back to their place.

[fitzcarraldo]

Where can I download this mod? All links seems death.

Many thanks!

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

[Salvadoreno]

What an excellent mod. Now all we need to do is integrate it with MaGUI Final and the major mods. Doesnt seem hard, but i am no modder.

[Plissken_04]

Where can I download this mod? All links seems death.

Many thanks!

Fitzcarraldo :salute:


ftp://hartmuthaas.no-ip.org/Volume_1/Sharing/SH3COMMUNITYMODS/VANJAST/


Username & Password in my Signature!!!


So Long

Maik

[fitzcarraldo]

ftp://hartmuthaas.no-ip.org/Volume_1/Sharing/SH3COMMUNITYMODS/VANJAST/


Username & Password in my Signature!!!


So Long

Maik

Thanks, Plissken. Now I´m thinking in your page... :damn: Is there some mod you don´t have?

The version for SH4 is the same? In SH3, I have the MaGUI WS, with the sextant included. But I´m searching a SH4 version.

Best regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

[Plissken_04]

Thanks, Plissken. Now I´m thinking in your page... :damn: Is there some mod you don´t have?

The version for SH4 is the same? In SH3, I have the MaGUI WS, with the sextant included. But I´m searching a SH4 version.

Best regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:


I have only Mods for SH3 on my Server,that's why it called "SH3COMMUNITYMODS"

I don't have SH4 or SH5,only SH3


So Long

Maik

[fitzcarraldo]

I have only Mods for SH3 on my Server,that's why it called "SH3COMMUNITYMODS"

I don't have SH4 or SH5,only SH3


So Long

Maik

Many thanks! I search in the threads of SH4 forums and I arrive to SH3...All conducts to SH3 :03:

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

[Salvadoreno]

I get a MENUtxt ERROR when running realnavmod with NYGM. Thought it runs well with supermods.

EDIT Well i saw all the changes made. With NYGM and MaGUI im sure there are conflicts. However id like to install the mod piecemeal. i.e taking the sub bearing off map, having star charts, taking all bearing cheats off so i can navigate manually, etc.. But im scared to try to install them in my current campaign with the info you gave me. Can i get a lil more help? I want all th necessary changes to add a rreal navigation aspect to my boat.

::EDIT2::

Ok so i disabled all mods and just installed NYGM and othe necessary fixes. Then installed RealNav. This time i only had a few Menu_txt errors. Silent Hunter still runs but i dont have the starcharts, only the sextant.

[Lonelywolfmother]

Hi!

I was wondering if there is a way to use a sextant on SH3 but without loosing the "Point in the Map" and "Plot Course" features.

I know this is pointless, but I would like to use the sextant only ocasionally while I learn and get used to it.

Thank you :yep:

[fitzcarraldo]

Hi!

I was wondering if there is a way to use a sextant on SH3 but without loosing the "Point in the Map" and "Plot Course" features.

I know this is pointless, but I would like to use the sextant only ocasionally while I learn and get used to it.

Thank you :yep:

The MaGUI 3.4 and MaGUI Final Version includes the sextant without loosing the points and plots.

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

[Lonelywolfmother]

Oh my..!

I was using MaGUI and I didn't noticed that! lol how awkward I am... :rotfl2:

Thank you very much @fitzcarraldo :DL

[Wolfstriked]

Hey chaps,been trying a placebo real navigation gamestyle and wonder how you guys are doing it.I have added in a mod that makes all contacts invisible....even your own sub.Sadly its not completely invisible and I can see it moving if I know the area I am near.I just try not to look at it.Its really kool to play like this and getting lost is real when the weather goes bad.I hit foul weather for 3 days and was stranded off the coast of some small island:).

The way I am playing is I only take readings at 0600 and 1800.Go on deck and if sun is visible I then go to nav map and zoom in till the bearing overlay on sub appears and mark the spot.Then I use protractor and get a heading I want and point sub in that direction.Then I take the ruler and find out how many miles till my destination point....bring up the distance/kts chart on right(Magui mod)and calculate the time it will take till destination is reached and manually stop TC and take new reading or enter in new heading.

Now the problems.....first is I had to put TC down to 1 near land.Problem is that it goes to TC1 too close to land and I am wrecking subs left and right.

Second problem is now navigating the Kiel canal is a biotch at 1TC.

So I am asking will this mod cure my issues I am having?

[postalbyke]

This is a realism mod, too, dude.

I've been "trying" it just from having magui/NYGM and not plotting courses.
It won't solve your Kiel canal blues, unfortunately...
I use the "Kiel Canal Out" button because the captain shouldn't oversee every minute of an outbound transit, especially so close to land. :D

You should have seen my plot for getting into ideal position around this merchant last night... *ugh*

I'm trying to learn lines of position to get my position even more accurate...
Ooh! we should ask if they're going to include the sextant in HAHD!

[Wolfstriked]

I agree about the captain not doing everything.I doubt he Kiel canal is even navigated by the NO but instead the WO.Most likely they leave port in morning and the WO guides the boat thru visually.Same with going around islands or hugging the coastlines.Once out at sea the NO probably goes to deck various times of the day and takes his readings and plots new courses.

The way I am playing it is I leave port visually and then go to map and zoom in enough so bearing tool shows.This allows me to then hug the coasts till I am out at sea.When at sea I zoom in at various times to get a plot point,only if weather permits.Would love to see something more automated where the player asks the NO for location(I wonder how accurate sextant navigation really is,can it pinpoint the location or is it more vague like sub is in AF56)?

[postalbyke]

I tried loading this mod, and it appears to be pretty generic, mostly what box you're in, maybe giving you a head's up on which part of the box you're in if you're very careful in your measurement... real life sextants can give you "almost GPS accuracy" according to some studying I did.
though it does require a very good, calibrated sextant, a watch set to GMT to the second, and some very careful usage practices... none of which you can get in the game.... :(

[Wolfstriked]

GPS precision is amazing if true.If a modder could get this functioning perfectly It would be pretty awesome since getting rid of watching the nav line and your sub move on map detracts from immersion IMO.

[Sailor Steve]

It is true. Using a good sextant and a good timepiece navigators have been travelling the seas with great accuracy for hundreds of years. There's nothing wrong with autonav and waypoints, until it gets cloudy or you submerge. Then you use dead reckoning, estimating your position by your speed and compass heading alone. When that happens you have no way of telling how fast the current is moving or in what direction, and the next time you can take a sighting you find out just how far of course you've gotten, which can be pretty far if you don't see the sun for a week.

[postalbyke]

I was just thinking...
would it be possible to make a wide or "normal" angle-of-sight camera with the "stadimeter" from the attack scope rangefinder in vanilla sh3 to find a precise angle to a given celestial object?
tossing that out there for more experienced modders... not sure how the stadimeter works... any takers?

[TorpX]

I was just thinking...
would it be possible to make a wide or "normal" angle-of-sight camera with the "stadimeter" from the attack scope rangefinder in vanilla sh3 to find a precise angle to a given celestial object?
tossing that out there for more experienced modders... not sure how the stadimeter works... any takers?

I think the bigger problem is that the "given celestial object"(s) are going to be in the wrong place and not move as they should. Quite a bit of work was done to create a more realistic navigation for SH4. It required using an outside program to provide a proper sky, sets of tables, and a lot of work to reduce the sights to obtain a position fix. In order to keep oneself in the dark about your actual position, the boats marker had to be elimitated and you couldn't use the waypoints (or else you would see where you really are). IMO, it was way too much work for the gain.

AFAIK, the obstacles to achieving this in SH3 are the same.

[postalbyke]

this mod has taken care of the map problems, and i know that the stars are all in the right place, the only problem i remember hearing about is the gmt is a little "off" somehow...
i guess i could try to reduce a sight from the in-game sextant, see how horrible it is :D

[Wolfstriked]

this mod has taken care of the map problems, and i know that the stars are all in the right place, the only problem i remember hearing about is the gmt is a little "off" somehow...
i guess i could try to reduce a sight from the in-game sextant, see how horrible it is :D

Gonna try this mod out.I think a few things would need to be done to further the headache of not being able to use the nav map to find location.One is a removal of the bearing tool from nav map,leaving it only for the attack map....if possible.Another would be removal of the ability to press Lmouse and ctrl key to find your location.

One question.....where is sextant in MaguiF???

[postalbyke]

it's hidden behind the time, etc. controls on the left.
go to the captain's log ( "k" ) and you can see the top of it peeking beneath the stopwatch.
move the stopwatch to get a better grab :D

I'm working out a way to test the night sky in sh3, made a mission, and am making some quick starcharts, learning how to do an actual sight reduction, so a few days from now i might be able to do it :P

[Wolfstriked]

Thanks Postal,I found it.Having a hard time downloading the real nav files though.Gets to 90% and then stops.:o Either way I think I will have problems with it since I have altered my FOV while on deck.What sucks is the babysitting of the heading when in high seas.I have tried upping the drag stats on the sub.sim files with no such luck of lowering the severity of the deviation off course.And if you put the L/R drag very high then the uboat slows down so much in turns it feels like an ocean liner.:nope:Anyone know what file would adjust the amount that heading changes due to the wind speeds?

[postalbyke]

I just used the obs. scope (running Magui and NYGM) to shoot some stars, and checked them against an electronic almanac of stars at that position at that time on that night (midnight, 31 Dec 1939 passing into 1 Jan 1940)
(haven't fixed my sextant (topside view) in my game yet :P)
and found values within 1 degree (pretty good for the time errors I introduced by finding then shooting the stars)

[postalbyke]

update:
fixed sextant, repositioned 43 degrees to the west.
stars in same position.
so!
the stars are fixed at what they would be at/near the prime meridian...

damn.
guess i'll have to check the sun next...

[ETsd4]

and found values within 1 degree (pretty good for the time errors I introduced by finding then shooting the stars)

A sextant-error during a polaris-shot of 1 degree is a distance-error of 111.2 km (60 nm).

[postalbyke]

A sextant-error during a polaris-shot of 1 degree is a distance-error of 111.2 km (60 nm).

have you run this mod? with the "quality" of the map and the measurement devices, you'll be lucky to know which box you're in...
I wasn't going for super-accuracy, I was just seeing if the stars are in the right place for the longitude

[Wolfstriked]

Postalbyke,can you make it more precise?

[postalbyke]

I'll have to look around for the location of the night sky after my daughter goes to bed... and my wife gets home from work lol

edit: haven't found the night sky yet, but I have found the sky...it looks like the sun and the moon live in the center lol

[postalbyke]

update: Still haven't found it... and no hints yet from anywhere else... *sigh*
think it's in the exe...

edit:
I'm sorry guys, I'm giving up for now... :(

[dariocapcro]

Hello everyone, tried to real nav mod, but do not know how to it, can anyone help me:salute:

[Plank]

Hello everyone, tried to real nav mod, but do not know how to it, can anyone help me:salute:

I do not fully understand your question but maybe this will help.

-If you do not understand simple dead reckoning read up on it elsewhere.
-If you do then read all threads here starting at beginning, "most" interface
questions will be answered.
-read all instructions in real nav mod.
-Do not worry about being confused.
-Go on simple cruises, plot courses to get used to all interface actions.Time
versus speed calculations. Steering by compass or rudder, speed over
ground, sleeping past your watch ex.This is to learn differences of
simulation from reality.
-Do not pursue or be pursued until you are confident.
-Increase length of cruising in all conditions and depths to understand what
can be expected.
-When ready apply the sextant learning.
-Be patient and try to think simple about the process.

Capt. Plank

[Plank]

The ships atlas
publisher,Shipping Guides LTD

This makes Plotting and verification simpler for global navigation.It does for
me at least.


Capt. Plank

[Didd]

Hi,

I'm trying to locate a copy of theses mod files. I can't get any of the links to work throughout this thread. Does anybody have a copy they would be willing to share?

Thanks
Didd

[Didd]

As soon as I ask for help I manage to find it myself in one of the stickies. I've been trying to find this for days. Still at least I've got it now.

Didd

[CaliEs]

How can i use real navigation when there is no longitude/latitude-reference on the map? I mean everything of a sun-, star-, moon- or whatever-shot comes down to a longitude/latitude-position. So how can you determine for example the exact(!) position of 53°34.14'N, 005°14.03'E on a GWX SH3-map?

[Didd]

Part of the mod files contains a map with lat and long marked on it. It's fairly coarse mind marked in degrees, so at best with measurement and subdividing, I've been able to plot degrees to one decimal place (6 minutes) which is more than close enough really. I doubt my "fixes" are as good as that anyway.

[don1reed]

@ CaliEs:

Those alternating white/black hacture marks located around the perimeter of your in-game chart (F5 screen) are the Latitude and Longitude. They remain unlabeled to this day; however, you can use the prime meridian and your home port as starting reference, by counting them as your voyage progresses.

Cheers

[Didd]

@ don1reed:

I have only just started trying to use SH3 in any sort of real navigation way. I also came across this problem. I considered plotting my position 'by eye' from another map, or using the KM grid converter backwards by trial and error. This was the main reason for me downloading these mod files.

What I found was that those black/white marks on my map seem to correspond to the scale bar in the bottom left corner and remain a constant physical size when the map zoom changes. They do not seem to correspond to the lat/long marks contained within these mod files.

I realise that you have been operating this way with success for some time - indeed it was your posting here (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=163113&highlight=stellarium) that provided the inspiration for me to try it myself and would be interested to know how you plot you lat/long position onto the SH3 map.

Thanks
Didd

[don1reed]

Happy Winter's Solstice, everyone.

1. Let me (highly) recommend:

http://www.amazon.com/Celestial-Navigation-Yachtsmen-Mary-Blewitt/dp/0070059284

For anyone interested in Celestial Navigation.

It's cost is minimal ($10.25 USD) and can be purchased through the Amazon link (above, right) it will help SUBSIM.

2. You Cannot use the DISTANCE = SPEED x TIME formula with F5 chart in the game. (Reason: the F5 chart is not a Mercator Projection chart.) The Devs use their F5 chart to suit their game engine to make this whole thing work. Because of this you cannot accurately predict or work out a Running Fix for a Day's run, or Etmal (noon to noon) run...

HOWEVER>>>

you can use STAR, MOON, & PLANET fixes to find your Geo Coord. to connect the FIXES to fashion a course.

3. The White and Black, alternating, Hacture marks ARE the Latitude and Longitude of and for the game. They measure 120km x 120km, trying to emulate a square degree of 60 nm x 60 nm. It follows, then, that every 2km = 1 nm. Zoomed in, you must use "Sailor's Eye" to determine decimal parts.

4. If you use the "Python/Stellarium" method of navigation, you notice that this method uses the game's engine formula to determine your position at sea. To fully immerse yourself in the WWII navigation experience, playing TC x1 will do the trick.

-...-


Back in the day, when Celestial Navigation by Sextant was still being taught at Annapolis, MD., USNaval Academy, 0.5 nm Fixes was expected...nay...demanded.

Doing the Midshipman's dance on the heaving quarterdeck of HMS Surprise with Jack Aubrey in some un-likely sea to find Noon, puts me to sleep each and every night.

"Dammit, Lad, there's not a moment to lose!"

[CaliEs]

VanJast wrote &quot;.. so as to prevent the user from zooming in to close, as this will give away the sub position, the zoom level is restricted to 100.&quot;
So real navigation in SH3 is incompatble with zoom-level 1?
Edit: Solved this problem by editing files. Instructions to edit => http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1512722&postcount=115

don1reed wrote about a &quot;Python/Stellarium&quot; method ( http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1809525&postcount=164 ) for SH3.
Can't find any script in the vanJast-files. Where can i get this script?

[Ad Günther Lütjens]

+1
all Link invalid.
Please.

[don1reed]

Using the Python/Stellarium method for Celestial Navigation with SH3 & SH4.

The Script is in your [here is example of what mine looks like]

My Documents/SH3/data/cfg/Careers/(skippers name)/1/(skippers name).map

Every time you save a game, SH3/SH4 updates this file to your PRECISE location on the F5 Chart.

Here is what my Python script file looks like, note what I've highlighted in RED below. I happen to play multi-games and this is the game I play on fridays:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

# By Michael Jones, 01/01/2008. mjones004@ameritech.net
# Revised 11/29/2009 to work with Stellarium 0.10.2
# This program reads the latitude and longitude data for a
# sub in Silent Hunter III, IV and creates a startup script for
# Stellarium. This sets the Date, Time and Location of the
# sub in Stellarium, allowing players to use celestial navigation in the game.

import string, os, sys

####### Edit Locations here ############

# Change the directory on the next line to point to SaveData.map in your saved game directory.
savedgame = "C:\\Users\\Gamer\\My Documents\\JAG\\data\\cfg\\Careers\\z\\0\\Fri.map"
# Set the Stellarium directory
stellocation = "C:\\Stellarium"

####### End Editable locations #########

# read savegame.
f=open(savedgame,'r')
content= f.read()
f.close()
# find lat & Lon in the file
start = content.find("Waypoint")
longst = content.find("Pt0=",start)
longnd = content.find(",",longst)
latnd = content.find(",",longnd+1)
# convert to dec deg
longitude = float(content[longst+4:longnd])/120000
latitude = float(content[longnd+1:latnd])/120000

# get date&time (input)
date = raw_input('GMT yyyy/mm/dd :')
time = raw_input('GMT hh:mm :')

# set the ocean label
if (-90 < longitude <= 30):
ocean = "Atlantic Ocean"
elif (30 < longitude <= 105):
ocean = "Indian Ocean"
elif (longitude <= -90 or longitude > 105):
ocean = "Pacific Ocean"

# Write startup script.
date = date.replace('/', ':')
longitude = str(longitude)
latitude = str(latitude)

stella=open(stellocation + "\\scripts\\JAG.ssc",'w')
stella.write("core.setDate(\""+date+"T"+time+":00\")\n")
stella.write("core.setObserverLocation("+longitude+", "+latitude+", 2, 0, \"SH3 Navigation Point, "+ ocean +"\", \"earth\")");
stella.close()

# now open stellarium and take your star sights
prog = "start /d \""+ stellocation +"\" stellarium.exe --startup-script sh3.ssc"
os.system(prog)
sys.exit()
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Inside this scrip file is the formula the game uses for determining your geo coord when it updates your *.map file.

Real Navigators plot their positions five times per day (There's something religious about that. ;-) )

Body: Sun and sometimes Sun and/or Moon, used for Running Fixes.
Daylight sights:
1. Ante Meridian (A.M.)
2. Meridian (Noon)
3. Post Meridan (P.M.)

Body: Stars, Moon, & Planets, used for Fixes.
4. Evening Twilight sights. (Round of three bodies)
5. Morning Twilight sights. (Round of three bodies)

Inside my *.map file: (Located at the bottom of the file)

[Waypoint]
Pt8=44333.77,6863332.00,0.00

If I divide 44333.77 by 120000, I get = 0.369448, changing into degrees and minutes = 0° 22.2 E. Why East, you ask, well because it's a positive number (N and E are positive numbers)continuing
6863332.00/120000 = 57.194433 = 57° 11.6N.

The Python script file, when working properly, allows the player to input Game date and Time (GMT). It sends this data to Stellarium and allows the player to select the celestial bodies necessary to obtain a fix.

Stellarium provides the player with body's Azimuth and Altitude of the sight to the precise second of time. If a round of stars is to be obtained, one must allow seconds to ellapse between each sight to reenact what the real navigator does. Real life doesn't have a pause button.

Getting Python and Stellarium to work hand in hand is a tedious business, admittedly, and for those interested in TC other than TCx1, Celestial Navigation in SH3 is not recommended.
Then there is the issue with newer versions of Python don't get me started on that. (I once had grey hair, now I have none.)

edit:

Both Python and Stellarium are stand-alone programs and as such, it requires the player to save his game, then open python, input the date/time, which then opens Stellarium, then player must obtain the data for his virtual sights, go to Almanac for war years, then reduce the sights via either
Nories,
HO-211,
HO-229,
HO-249,
Concise Sight Reduction Tables,
or
pure math:
sin Hc = sin Lat sin dec + cos Lat cos dec cos LHA
cos Z = sin dec - sin Lat sin Hc / cos Lat cos Hc

You'll soon find you have no time left to enjoy playing the game; but, if you're determined...
Remember...Real Celestial Navigation is like doing your own Taxes five times per day. LoL

Cheers

[CaliEs]

+1
all Link invalid.
Please.

http://files.mail.ru/9MBEOS (49MB)

[CaliEs]

Using the Python/Stellarium method for Celestial Navigation with SH3

Awesome. Very valueable information.

In the known nautical almancs from 1939-1945 the polaris star tables ( http://img.xrmb2.net/images/230530.jpeg )are missing, which are unique for every year. Do you have those Polar star tables for the time 1939 ff. ?

[don1reed]

There is a free almanac, here:

http://www.tecepe.com.br/scripts/AlmanacPagesISAPI.isa


just type in the date you're interested in, i.e., 1/11/1939 for example.

[Ad Günther Lütjens]

Bigs thanks CaliEs:up:

[CaliEs]

Real navigation depends on exact time measurement. But i see no clock with a hand for seconds. Only the stopwatch exists but to top it all, the stopwatch goes wrong: the stopwatch-minute is faster than the u-boat-clock-minute.
In all sh3-threads (topic search) i have not found a single demand/question about the lack of a seconds-display. I am shocked right now.

Even for dead-reckoning its essentual to know when i have stopped my engines: at 15:00:00 or at 15:00:55. At a speed of 17kts it makes a difference of 1/2 km.

[vanjast]

In all sh3-threads (topic search) i have not found a single demand/question about the lack of a seconds-display. I am shocked right now.
Even for dead-reckoning its essentual to know when i have stopped my engines: at 15:00:00 or at 15:00:55. At a speed of 17kts it makes a difference of 1/2 km.
The mod was never going to be that accurate .... for many reasons beyond our control. It was just an educational idea to make it more difficult to play :03:

Oh.. hi all, I've just risen from the depths.. :)

[CaliEs]

The mod was never going to be that accurate .... for many reasons beyond our control. It was just an educational idea to make it more difficult to play

What the hell are you talking about? I just was shocked about the fact that no one in those 20000 SH-3 threads has asked about the lack of a seconds-display.

I was not talking about the idea someone is really so dumb to believe that the SH3-sky is so accurat designed/modelled to get from there a position fix. Because celestial navigation depends on exact time (seconds) and a precision of one hundredth(!) of a degree. The way to fix your position with stars is - as it described by donreed here at 01-11-2012 07:35 AM - to combine SH3 with the stellarium-software.

[vanjast]

Well, you being shocked why the seconds indicator was not mentioned, and implying that not having this indicator would put you out by 500m or more, with regard to navigation. Maybe the forum doesn't think that this is important.

Linking SH3 skies/time/position to stellarium implies that SH3 must be 'accurate' enough as one has to use these as references for stellarium.

:)

[don1reed]

@CaliEs

Stellarium provides the seconds necessary to reduce the sight to a fix.

Another stand-alone program that's been around since the days of AOTD is MQK.

It allows you to input a four digit Kriegsmarine grid and transforms it into geo coord. I use it to give me an Assumed Position for my sight reductions.

I only use the celestial canopy in SH3 to determine whether celestial bodies are visible or not. It determines if an actual sight can be taken.

The other thing that is wrong about SH3 is SUNRISE and SUNSET.

Rise occurs when the upper limb breaks surface, NOT when it's half above the horizon; and likewise, Set occurs when the upper limb dips below the horizon.

Cheers

[vanjast]

@CaliEs
Rise occurs when the upper limb breaks surface, NOT when it's half above the horizon; and likewise, Set occurs when the upper limb dips below the horizon.
Cheers
This problem is more noticable at the higher lattitudes, where the sun takes for ever to get halfway. I vaguely remember using the time that the interior light switches from red to normal, and visa versa, as an indication of sunrise/set - this seemed to be more accurate.

I just need to fire up SH3 again..

[don1reed]

I know what you mean, Van. Since the DRM was removed from SHV, I've been investigating those waters.

Cheers

[JeromeHeretic]

Even for dead-reckoning its essentual to know when i have stopped my engines: at 15:00:00 or at 15:00:55. At a speed of 17kts it makes a difference of 1/2 km.

And why it is so important for you, when from sextant you are able to read data +-50km on clear water?
In coastal waters you navigate via a lighthouses, when you are in the middle of ocean 100km is nothink important. When you search for reported contact, you must have at first a lot of luck, because report of contact is with error about 50km, you know your position with error about 50 km, convoy is runing in some random zig-zag course, visibility is about 25km... like this it in WWII was. When you want to simulate this, you must have on mind, that realy is not a problem in the dark night break your ship by hiting a land, when you are near of coast, or near some island. Enjoy hard living of real WWII seaman :-)

Imagine, that your board clock make an error about +-5 seconds per day and value of this error depends on weather, temperature and a lot of other things.
For example depth in which your boat is. As you go down, pressure inside of boat is much higher as atmosferical and clock go slower. Mechanical watch in summer go slower as in winter (quartz watch go quicker when hot).

As long as you are out of port, the error of your board clock is bigger.
You can set up your clock only when you exactly know, where you are - so, for example when you drive over atlantic and see some coastal lighthouse in USA and you are sure which one it is. That's a moment, when you can correct your time, because you know local noon and you know your longitude. And when you do it, you don't know if you measure better time as is error of your clock :-) Realy, it was not easy to be a seaman. :-)

[Janus]

Is this mod still hosted somewhere?

[Plissken_04]

Is this mod still hosted somewhere?



ftp://hartmuthaas.no-ip.org/public/Sharing/SH3COMMUNITYMODS/VANJAST/

Username & Password in my Signature!!!


So Long

Maik

[Hummel]

ftp://hartmuthaas.no-ip.org/public/Sharing/SH3COMMUNITYMODS/VANJAST/

Username & Password in my Signature!!!


So Long

Maik

THX! :yeah:

[Mejs]

Hey guys, does anybody still has this file? And does it work with GWX 3.0?

I tried hideVIIc and realistic contacts with GWX, unfortunately none of those removed the sub icon from the map.

[Plissken_04]

Hey guys, does anybody still has this file?


https://gofile.me/2YNK2/m3mTA26Gy

[Mejs]

Thank you very much, will test it this evening.

From my observations, while cruising from Lorient to Island Channels the sky seems to be pretty consistent with what I can see at that date and location on inthesky.org website. I noticed that positions of the stars and sun are moved by 25 minutes ahead (timewise), when the moon is exactly on point with the website.

Also the periscope seems to give good 10 deegree altitude readings on 1.5 magnification. With sextant it all should be much easier.