Tis a Giant Shame Indeed

[Madox58]

With the "Great Race" to be Number 1 Modder
of SH4, or at lest an early contender, So many
have taken short cuts.
Or read a few threads, followed the info laid out,
and then claimed greatness with nary a thank you.
Me?
I could care just a tad less.
I'm thick skinned that way.
The biggest problem rolling on is,
Crap conversions for the sake of Glory,
Offending those who would make it proper,
and then share that knowledge!
And, what I see, is a supercharged,
"F**K You" mentality that is tolerated
by not only the general attendies to this forum,
but by the very moderators themselves.
Once the good guys say "screw this! I'm Gone!",
Everyone that did not standup and tell the
creatons to p**s off, lost!
Sometimes Guys, You HAVE to take a stand.
Or guys like NVDrifter and others,
Well, We just get tired of it.
Flame suit is on so hit me Baby!

[FIREWALL]

I don't beleive flameing solves anything. Your opinion is as important as anyone else. All view points should be abled to be expressed if done in an adult manner.

[William516]

Wont hear any flaming hear from me, I agree. Heck i cant even read the codes let alone create mods and fix a game the way some of the modders can. What really upsets me is that some of these mods and modders should be on the UBI payroll as they are the only ones keeping SH4 alive. They have fixed some of the problems with the simulation (if you can call it that still) and have made it playable. I dont know all the aspects as to what happen to make some very tallented people leave but im sure it was something that would make me do the same if i placed my heart and soul into doing something. If sh4 follows in Sh3 footsteps then the last patch is right around the corner and then it off on our own. UBI never fixed all the issues with SH3 leaving us at three patches total so we only have 1 more patch to go before its sink or swim time. Losing good modders now is a bad way to start this simulation off.

I wish all of them the best though and appreciate the hard work they put into the mods. Hopefully if things get better around here we will see them make a return. The work they made and were making will be missed by many.

hopefully they will continue to improve Sh3 as i still find it more enjoyable then Sh4 at this time.

Good luck all

William

[U-Bones]

May the troubled find peace.

[Ducimus]

What i miss?

I wasnt aware of the NVDrifer episode tell after the fact with gizmoe's post asking for NVDrifer's mods. I then looked at his post history to see what the hell happened. I really have no comment on that.

Then there's the Berry episode the "dont make the AI harder" thread. To understaned what that was all about, you'd have to bring back the clock a year or two ago. I'm not going to expand too much on that, only to say that it could arguably be said that one persons attitude (who i shall not name to avoid further expanding on that old heated argument), was the catalyst that fractionalized the mod community, and alienated alot of modders, or wouldbe modders.

Now, since im responsible for one of the two major mod packs for SH4, and for some odd reason i feel this was directed at me. Let me set one thing straight here. Im not out to be the number 1 modder. Ive had my fill of watching that horsecrap in SH3, and im not looking for a repeat, let alone instigate it. Number 1 modder means NOTHING. Anyone who thinks or tries to be the "number 1 modder" is nothing more then a legend in their own mind and nothing else. As an aside i don't think ive taken that many (if any) shortcuts. Most of what ive done was lessons learned from two years worth of tinkering with SH3.

Now Truth be told, im tried. Im probably going to post one more revision of my mod pack, and then think about calling it quits, BECAUSE its becoming a major mod pack or "supermod", and i dont want to go down that road because its a commitment. Im not looking for thanks, i didnt ask for a thank you, nor do i expect it. I come up with an idea, i test it, if it works and i like it, i post the **** and don't worry about it.

I honestly don't know what people expect here anymore, and with drama cropping up im starting to not care. If were going to have drama around here, you can count me out, im not interested.

[Madox58]

It was not directed at you or any others persay.
It was intended as a general statement.
So relax.

[Camaero]

I honestly don't get what the fuss is? I for one thank each and every person that helps make this game better and wish it was just left at that. I don't get into the soap opera stuff so I have no idea what everyones problem is.:ping:

[CaptainCox]

I am not 100% sure who you are talking about here. I try to read most threads but so far i only come across the Beery vs GWX and nvdrifter quitting. If I missed something please fill me in here. I can't remember seeing ppl taking shortcuts with mods the way you describe. Or i totally missed something like i said.

[FooFighters]

I am not 100% sure who you are talking about here. I try to read most threads but so far i only come across the Beery vs GWX and nvdrifter quitting. If I missed something please fill me in here. I can't remember seeing ppl taking shortcuts with mods the way you describe. Or i totally missed something like i said.

I agree with you.. It looks I also missed something ?

[epaga]

To be honest, guys, I find it really silly to get so emotionally worked up about modding a frickin computer game. I realize I'm new to the scene and all, but, hey!

If someone is taking credit for someone else's work, sure, call 'em on it. If no "stealing" actually occurred, then have that person set the record straight. But people, is it that hard to stay respectful and kind? I mean, sheesh, I think the average age here must be roughly 30-40, right? You seriously would NOT know that, judging by the behavior especially in what will forever be known to me as the NVDrifter Drama Thread. That's the level of teenage boys going on right there.

"Well I'm going to take my ball and go home then."
"Well, then YOU'RE not my friend any more! So THERE!"
"Fine."
"FINE."
"FINE!"
"FINE!"
...


:shifty:

[TDK1044]

When you have a talented group of people working along very similar lines to the same end, some drama is inevitable.

This modding community is outstanding, and those of us for whom a 'mod' was a guy on a Vespa scooter in the 1960s, salute the talent of the SH4 modders and accept the ego issues that sometimes comes with it. :D

[LZBTD]

There is nothing written in stone that states 'Here is a mod thou shalt use it'.

[jimimadrid]

To be honest, guys, I find it really silly to get so emotionally worked up about modding a frickin computer game. I realize I'm new to the scene and all, but, hey!

If someone is taking credit for someone else's work, sure, call 'em on it. If no "stealing" actually occurred, then have that person set the record straight. But people, is it that hard to stay respectful and kind? I mean, sheesh, I think the average age here must be roughly 30-40, right? You seriously would NOT know that, judging by the behavior especially in what will forever be known to me as the NVDrifter Drama Thread. That's the level of teenage boys going on right there.

"Well I'm going to take my ball and go home then."
"Well, then YOU'RE not my friend any more! So THERE!"
"Fine."
"FINE."
"FINE!"
"FINE!"
...


:shifty:

I agree 100 %.

Sometimes i've been remembered to my Kindergarten days.

I'm also modding for EA's Footballmanager community. And there you have a lot of 13-15 year old kiddies. God, really kiddies.

Therefore i was happy to find here a community with "older" and "wiser" guys.

But what should i tell? It's a deja vu?

Please hold the ball down. I want to see here threads about wonderfull mods or ideas. Not about men , which could not be called men.

(sorry for my bad english - it's hard to translate my feelings about this matters)

[ReallyDedPoet]

What i miss?

I wasnt aware of the NVDrifer episode tell after the fact with gizmoe's post asking for NVDrifer's mods. I then looked at his post history to see what the hell happened. I really have no comment on that.

Then there's the Berry episode the "dont make the AI harder" thread. To understaned what that was all about, you'd have to bring back the clock a year or two ago. I'm not going to expand too much on that, only to say that it could arguably be said that one persons attitude (who i shall not name to avoid further expanding on that old heated argument), was the catalyst that fractionalized the mod community, and alienated alot of modders, or wouldbe modders.

Now, since im responsible for one of the two major mod packs for SH4, and for some odd reason i feel this was directed at me. Let me set one thing straight here. Im not out to be the number 1 modder. Ive had my fill of watching that horsecrap in SH3, and im not looking for a repeat, let alone instigate it. Number 1 modder means NOTHING. Anyone who thinks or tries to be the "number 1 modder" is nothing more then a legend in their own mind and nothing else. As an aside i don't think ive taken that many (if any) shortcuts. Most of what ive done was lessons learned from two years worth of tinkering with SH3.

Now Truth be told, im tried. Im probably going to post one more revision of my mod pack, and then think about calling it quits, BECAUSE its becoming a major mod pack or "supermod", and i dont want to go down that road because its a commitment. Im not looking for thanks, i didnt ask for a thank you, nor do i expect it. I come up with an idea, i test it, if it works and i like it, i post the **** and don't worry about it.

I honestly don't know what people expect here anymore, and with drama cropping up im starting to not care. If were going to have drama around here, you can count me out, im not interested.
Your mods are great Ducimus, I am a little taken back by this thread as others to
be honest. I don't mod, its a time thing for me, so again for those that take the time to do it, very much appreciated.

I don't agree with people doing mods and not giving credit, but from what I see, this does not happen alot, and when it does, it was a mistake, and usually is corrected.

New modders\modders in general, are going to make mistakes as they learn, they should be encouraged not intimidated or discouraged with threads like this. The last thing that this community needs is a monopoly on modding, this will crush creativity.

From what I see there are alot of good SH4 modders, problem is, is that they are being compared to later SH3 Modders, that is not fair. Anyway , I look forward and will appreciate the next mod or super-mod.

Lastly, I finally got around to installing FTT last night, with a few of tweaks of my own, great mod:up: SH4 grows on you:yep:

RDP

[ATR-42]

all of you, get back to modding....
this thread serves no purpose, it should be deleted.

[FooFighters]

all of you, get back to modding....
this thread serves no purpose, it should be deleted.

Yes sir ! walking back to my drawing board :rotfl: :rotfl:

[U-Bones]

With the "Great Race" to be Number 1 Modder of SH4, or at lest an early contender, So many have taken short cuts. Or read a few threads, followed the info laid out, and then claimed greatness with nary a thank you.
Please. If you don't have the sense and manners to take this drek offline, and feel compelled to air it publicly, at least have the guts to name names and make direct accusations.

Me? I could care just a tad less. I'm thick skinned that way.
Obviously not true. You felt compelled to stir it back up. Exactly how many of YOUR mods were stolen ? And (assuming there are some) why are you punishing the community for it instead of the perpetrators ?

The biggest problem rolling on is, Crap conversions for the sake of
Glory, Offending those who would make it proper, and then share that knowledge!

Again, take it offline or have the backbone to make your case. More spineless innuendo... Also reaveals a lot about YOU. Most modders I know do it because they like to take things apart and put them back together, and they like to help. Not for GLORY. lol

And, what I see, is a supercharged, "F**K You" mentality that is tolerated by not only the general attendies to this forum, but by the very moderators themselves.
What I see is an incredible amount of childish behavior. I'm with you on tolerant moderators though, for instance I would have already squashed this thread. But I'm an intolerant jerk. No therapy either.

Once the good guys say "screw this! I'm Gone!", Everyone that did not standup and tell the creatons to p**s off, lost!
Is "good guys" code for something ? I have heard it a lot lately. The only person I am aware of that publicly said screw it and left did so while acting childish and spewing grossly inappropriate comments. I was one of the "creatons" that stood up and told him to p**s off as he was leaving. He made it clear from day one that his heart was not in SH4, he clarified further as he was leaving.

Sometimes Guys, You HAVE to take a stand. Or guys like NVDrifter and others, Well, We just get tired of it. Flame suit is on so hit me Baby!
You stand with whom you must. This post was nothing but a poorly disguised flame. And bait. Congratulations, you caught a sucker.

[TDK1044]

The biggest problem rolling on is,
Crap conversions for the sake of Glory,
Offending those who would make it proper,
and then share that knowledge!
And, what I see, is a supercharged,
"F**K You" mentality that is tolerated
by not only the general attendies to this forum,
but by the very moderators themselves.



Just my opinion, but I think the Moderators have enough respect for the vast majority of the members here to try and allow as much spirited discussion as posible......even when one member vehemently disagrees with another.

If someone crosses a line and a thread degrades into petulent accusations and personal attacks, then a Moderator will try and get the thread back on track. If that fails and the personal attacks continue, then the thread will be closed and a PM may be sent.

[dean_acheson]

Somebody has been in the Scotch again.... ;)

I did a mod the other day, I went into my saved games and changed my sub from the GATO to the Wahoo.

[B_O_L_T]

I think part of the core problem is that there are areas where it is obvious this sim needs work. I have heavily modified SH4 for myself and friends, I have used no one else’s code or ideas and yet inevitably I have made changes similar to others, while values may not be the same the ideas behind them are. If I were to release my mod I am dam sure some nub would claim it as his own and shout about crediting them for the work.

The bottom line is that it is inevitable this will occur from time to time, barking about having done x or y first and therefore being the originator of the idea is horse****. In my mods I have changed graphics files, worked on sub interiors and exteriors, replaced the map, map tools, messed about with cfg files to change escort behaviour and some of the sensor platforms, enabled some of this missing controls, changed graphics files related to particle effects, edited campaign layers and rewritten some of the shaders. Most of this I did within a week or two of the games initial release as it was obvious doing so would improve and build upon the sim.

Even 3d modders should stop and think before shouting about others ripping of their work as we are dealing with History, all the data is laid out before us, we know all the platforms involved and how they were used. Adding a platform missing from the original game doesn’t make you the originator of the idea, when all you are doing is adding something that History tells us was there.

We are all working with someone else’s code that being Ubisoft, I don’t release my mods to the general public anymore as I simply cannot always spare the time to support my work or update if and when patches are released. Nor can I be bothered with the idiots who always start whining that x is not correct or y doesn’t work as intended and to avoid the crap I have seen popping up in this forum of late.

Hats off to those that decide to release to the public and continue supporting your work, in some cases others who enjoy your work will be grateful and express their gratitude on the forums and that should be enough. But if all you are doing is trying to increase the size of an already over inflated ego, go write a game or sim from scratch then you will have legal grounds for attacking others who may copy, modify, emulate or cover the same ground as your work.

I am not having a dig at modders as I am aware just how much time one invests to modify a game like SH4 and to continue to provide support. It is a dig at all the over inflated egos who believe they have the right to claim ideas as their own when all they have done is modify a computer game released by someone else.

It is about time all this nonsense and childish bickering stopped, although I know it won't as some people just don't know when to shut up. This post is not aimed at any one in paticular just my own thoughts on the issue of modding games in general and this thread was as good as any to express them.

[Sailor Steve]

Okay, I'll flame you; but not for what you said in your post.
It was not directed at you or any others persay.
It was intended as a general statement.
So relax.
It's easy to spell things the way you think they sound, but not always correct.
It's two words, and is spelled per se. It's Latin for "through itself", "by itself" or "in itself".

[fredbass]

People have to learn to roll with the punches. You've got to take the bad with the good. Such is part of life. Don't run away and hide every time someone gives you a hard time. Stand up and be a man. :up:

[FIREWALL]

Lets all be Adults... or really nice Kids :D

[shad43]

Okay, I'll flame you; but not for what you said in your post.
It was not directed at you or any others persay.
It was intended as a general statement.
So relax. It's easy to spell things the way you think they sound, but not always correct.
It's two words, and is spelled per se. It's Latin for "through itself", "by itself" or "in itself".

:rotfl:
Now we know why Steve's Chief of the Boat!

[TheBrauerHour]

Okay, I'll flame you; but not for what you said in your post.
It was not directed at you or any others persay.
It was intended as a general statement.
So relax. It's easy to spell things the way you think they sound, but not always correct.
It's two words, and is spelled per se. It's Latin for "through itself", "by itself" or "in itself".

:rotfl:
Now we know why Steve's Chief of the Boat!

You got that right...the only good thing that came out of this thread!!! :lol:


May I suggest something? Can we be a community? I am a school teacher, and if I see a good lesson, I take it and make my own improvements upon it. When I type the copy of the lesson plan up, I put a blanket statement honoring all my fellow teachers for creating the plan up to the point I made it better, and then I will pass it on to someone else. We teachers don't mind, heck we encourage it. Why? Because it benefits the students, which is our goal. So here is my suggestion:

I take it that the fuss is about people not being given credit from other modders who improve upon their ideas. So from now on, the readme of every mod should just thank the modders before them for their wonderful work until the point where the new modder improved it. Make it a blanket, formatted statement. I can even post my first 'mod' to these forums, it will be a text file with that statement added, I'll call it the SH4-readme-File-mod. ;)

Seriously guys, I thought this community was about making the game better. Shouldn't we all be willing to help each other to that end goal? Believe me, I am so impressed with these mods and very thankful to you all.

[Chock]

Sometimes Guys, You HAVE to take a stand.

Well, I agree with that part, sometimes you do have to take a stand. But since all we are talking about here is tweaking a computer game, then I hardly think that life and liberty is in imminent peril.

Yes, if you make a mod for a game and someone uses a bit of it, then a thanks would be nice, but let's be honest, most people are modding stuff because they like doing it, and they'll probably do it thanks or no. Granted some may be doing it in the hope that they will be admired, but if that is their motivation, then fair enough, to each his own. The subsim community at large still benefits whatever the motivation.

In the past I've made mods for games and sims like SH2 and 3 and 4, Flight Simulator and Flashpoint etc etc, and I daresay I'll do it again, but if I put them on the 'net for people to download and use, either as they are, or as the basis for something more, then I really don't care if nobody bows and scrapes to me about it. Personally, I take the view that once you've put it on the net for anyone to grab, then they can do what the hell they like with it, and if I was in any other way concerned about that fact, then putting it out for all and sundry would not be the smartest thing to do if its use or misuse might offend my delicate sensibilities or dent a need to meet people's approval.

Nobody is forcing me or anyone else to produce, or use a mod or tweak, and as far as I'm concerned, whether anyone tweeks a tiny line of someone else's mod, or writes a complete program from scratch, they are contributing to something bigger than anyone's ego, that is to say, a community of people with a shared interest.

On the other hand, if someone wants to be admired or feted for their work, then that's their business. And for all I know, some people may be cutting corners when they create a mod, but if they are, then it is hardly a way to achieve glory, if that is what they desire.

Anything that degenerates into a - to put it crudely - 'p*ssing contest' is less about the desire to share their abilities for the benefit of people with a shared interest, and probably more about not having enough hugs from their parents, if you ask me.

Take a stand on issues that matter: For me, subsim is about a shared experience in which everyone, to a greater or lesser degree, contributes. But no matter how small or large that contribution is, whether it be a mod, a donation, some info, a suggestion, or even just words of encouragement, it's something that is bigger than anyone's need to have their ego stroked.

When you have something like that, it really is worth taking a stand about.

[sqk7744]

Ok,

Cling Cling (my two cents)

This Forum has been a nice friendly cove away from the real world where we come from to escape just this kind of nonsense. I hold the highest regard for the modders as well as the SH4 experience and look forward every weekend to those Fri and Sat night "new mod' releases. I stopped regularly participating in the flight sim forums where a new crop of nest birds became the majority.

Squawking, shrieking, and chirping in their demands for new mods, and then complaining upon release, while contributing nothing to the community.

Lets not have that happen here. We all contribute, help the new folks and raise the bar of simming and community. After all this is a hobby and supposed to be our fun time.

I present this thread the coveted:
http://www.compuglobalhypermeganet.tv/images/sh4/littlebilly.jpg


---

[Mush Martin]

I Havent been around on the forums much for the last two weeks
and I would suppose from this I have missed a bit.

all I really know is that modding is my hobby as such, I do it for
fun and to get the gameplay working the way I would like.

I can do that in the game unilaterally. but I cant learn to mod
by myself really. within the community I am sure I have offended
one or two at least, and conversely have been offended by one
or two at least. but I come here to learn and to teach what I
learn, to commune with people who have a major common interest
with me, not modding but Submarine warfare.

I like coming here to talk listen and express, I try where possible to
give all credit where its due. some of my mods are original some are
not, mostly I mod with help because thats how I get to learn new
stuff.

Ive missed the shinanagans this last few weeks, It is regrettable that
some would leave when there work is utilized by others, I realized myself
a few weeks ago that my mods are public domain, and as such may be
shared or utilized as long as credit is due.

I had said it of course in my readmes but once you put it out
some one will take it apart and use it or the techniques.

l came to realize that I dont "Own" my mod, I realized that its freeware
and having thought about it, I decided that I get much more out of
the community than I lose to it, so having thought it through I decided
I didnt mind.

Now Ill admit My modding isnt near at the level of yours (at pvtr but could
be a general comment too), when I see some of my work taken in a
direction I dont agree with it may not be the same as it is for you.
I squirm a bit In the way the GWX guys do when they see UBERSTEIN
but what can you do, "Enquiring minds want to know" there will always
be a new someone that wants to take it apart and see how it was done.

I totally love the games both of them and I love being a part of the
community here at subsim. oh and I Love modding, Largely thanks
to some

Good Guys

and I do mean thanks.

MM

[ATR-42]

http://www.laflash.org/blogXtras/pancake_bunny.jpg

This thread is pointless bantering, this forum is a great place, for a great game. this community is a helpful and enjoyable one to be a part of. If so and so wants to whine and stop making mods, suit yourself, lets move on. please lock this thread it has nothing to do with our subjects at hand...

[Gizzmoe]

Thread closed.