convot attacks in storms

[Laffertytig]

ok ive made 3 seperate attacks on convoys in storms where visibility is below 1000 metres and each time i have the 1st ship thats became visible are dd's which are racing straight for me! i wouldve thought i might have got lucky at least once and seen a merchant but no the dd's are the ships i bump into.

is this just a coincidence or are these dd's able to see through storms?
im using gwx 1.03 and im in sep 1941

[Jimbuna]

ok ive made 3 seperate attacks on convoys in storms where visibility is below 1000 metres and each time i have the 1st ship thats became visible are dd's which are racing straight for me! i wouldve thought i might have got lucky at least once and seen a merchant but no the dd's are the ships i bump into.

is this just a coincidence or are these dd's able to see through storms?
im using gwx 1.03 and im in sep 1941

The best chance of you being detected is always whilst your on the surface. I'd go to PD and use my hydrophones....you'll eventually get close enough (all things being equal/well) ie: silent approach and should be in a position to launch your eels. :arrgh!:

[Laffertytig]

yeah but that doesnt explain how these dd's are consistantly heading right for me in very poor visibility. if it had been once or twice i would've put it down to bad luck but 3 times is makin me think something is wrong.

ive read a few other posts and they all seem to begin with a dd closin on them. it seems dd's can see through fog

[Vacillator]

Here's an earlier thread I started, might be of interest:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=112604&highlight=foul+weather

I too have not had much luck in these situations!

[Captain Nemo]

yeah but that doesnt explain how these dd's are consistantly heading right for me in very poor visibility. if it had been once or twice i would've put it down to bad luck but 3 times is makin me think something is wrong.

ive read a few other posts and they all seem to begin with a dd closin on them. it seems dd's can see through fog

Do DD's have radar at this point in the war? If so, this would explain them knowing where you are in poor visibility.

Nemo

[Jimbuna]

The first surface warning radar (Type 271) was fitted to the corvette HMS Orchis in May 41, so it is quite possible that this is how you are being detected whilst on the surface :arrgh!:

[fastfed]

ok ive made 3 seperate attacks on convoys in storms where visibility is below 1000 metres and each time i have the 1st ship thats became visible are dd's which are racing straight for me! i wouldve thought i might have got lucky at least once and seen a merchant but no the dd's are the ships i bump into.

is this just a coincidence or are these dd's able to see through storms?
im using gwx 1.03 and im in sep 1941

Its the game.. In all reality many many U-boats attacked during night ON THE SURFACE!!!

In this game with HEAVY FOG and the middle of the night, they still spot you right away..

Its the game not how it was done.

[Jimbuna]

ok ive made 3 seperate attacks on convoys in storms where visibility is below 1000 metres and each time i have the 1st ship thats became visible are dd's which are racing straight for me! i wouldve thought i might have got lucky at least once and seen a merchant but no the dd's are the ships i bump into.

is this just a coincidence or are these dd's able to see through storms?
im using gwx 1.03 and im in sep 1941

Its the game.. In all reality many many U-boats attacked during night ON THE SURFACE!!!

In this game with HEAVY FOG and the middle of the night, they still spot you right away..

Its the game not how it was done.
Attacking at night on the surface was actually the preferred method.....at least until the widespread fitting of radar :arrgh!:

[ReallyDedPoet]

Ran into a fellow wolf during a storm:o, drinks were on me back in port:yep:

RDP

[Laffertytig]

so are some or all dd's equiped with radar as early as 1941? i was under the impression that uboats were successfully conducting surface attacks right up until late 42 early 43.

maybe someone from gwx could shed some light on this.

[Heibges]

so are some or all dd's equiped with radar as early as 1941? i was under the impression that uboats were successfully conducting surface attacks right up until late 42 early 43.

maybe someone from gwx could shed some light on this.

I play NYGM and you can do surface attacks in that in early 1943. It just depends on how many DD's have radar.

[Umfuld]

yeah but that doesnt explain how these dd's are consistantly heading right for me in very poor visibilityYou probably are already, but worth saying that you make sure your engines aren't over 100RPMs.

Just hitting Rig for Silent Running will not quiet your engines enough. Especially within 1500m or so from an escort.


I know that most attacks early in the war were surface but you'll never find me on the surface within 5000m of a DD.

I don't care the weather. I just would never do that.

[Laffertytig]

[/quote]You probably are already, but worth saying that you make sure your engines aren't over 100RPMs.

Just hitting Rig for Silent Running will not quiet your engines enough. Especially within 1500m or so from an escort.quote]

this maybe would be the case (not in very rough seas though) submerged but a dd would hardly hear a uboats engine over its on while on the surface. read up on some uboat history and u will see this.

[XXi]

I did several surface attacks in very poor weather conditions. Still, the best way is to enter the convoy submerged and then surface, when you know you`re in the middle, encircled by merchants, not DD`s. It is always risky as escorts can take you by surprise, you have little time for targetting and choosing targets, finishing the vessels off with a deck gun is not an option... And don`t forget the premature detonations, in storm they`re more a rule thank exception.
THe only good thing in very bad weather is it doesn`t help your enemies either - until they have no radar, they can loose contanct on the surface. And asdic gets interrrupted so that your chances of escaping are rising.

Anyway, for me best weather to attack is moderate to bad. Very bad is just too problematic, clean weather means the risk is much higher.

[Umfuld]

the best way is to enter the convoy submerged and then surfaceInterested in the reason behind this. What advantage is there for surfacing at that point?

[XXi]

Just remember: it makes any sense ONLY when the weather is bad enough. Heavy storm or night is the only good time.
Reason ? Slighlty better visibility and more maneuvrability - you can run across the columns, attacking few targets in short period of time and get out before the escort reacts apropriately. If you know how to handle your boat, you don`t get spotted or you get spotted just by the merchants you attack, seconds before the torpedos hit the target...

Besides, ASDIC is of little help if you remain surfaced - if escorts has no radar and the visibility is bad enough, you can get out quickly, with just short time under water.


Of course, such risky actions are good until, say, mid 1941, perhaps 1942 but not later. And the adrenaline gain is worth mentioning :)
I`ve made quite a few such actions using NYGM, in 1939-mid 1941 with VIIB and IXB and results were nice. I managed to escape easily in any case - usually I was making a run across the convoy, attacking the ships I could see at front of my boat, then change of course and escape at flank speed - so that the escorts were entering the area of attack when my boat was already off the convoy.

[Laffertytig]

so the vibe im gettin here is that nygm handles this issue in a more realistic manner than gwx.

a uboat should be the one that detects the dd not the other way around, unless the watch are asleep. my 3 attacks show that either the dd's had radar in oct 41 or they can see through storms. certainly made for a very frustating patrol and all for the wrong reasons

[Umfuld]

so the vibe im gettin here is that nygm handles this issue in a more realistic manner than gwxIs sailing into a defended convoy on the surface (in any weather) realistic?

I'm asking, not being a smarty pants.


If so, no wonder the Germans lost the war. Kind of defeats the purpose of building a boat that can submerge if you ask me.

[Laffertytig]

yep night surface attacks was the way the uboats had most of their short lived success. it wasnt until most dd's had radar that night surface attacks stopped. and the reason for radar was that uboats were very hard to see with the eye, hence the reason for my post

[spork542]

Be careful in heavy fog in convoy attacks. Ships have a tendency to ram your boat. Also, when you're attacking, do not underestimate radar from '41 onwards. Stay submerged in your attacks for the most part, and carefully position yourself to sneak past the escorts. If you're using GWX, it just won't work to lie in wait anymore. You have to take the initiative.

[Heibges]

I won't attack in heavy fog period after I know the DD's have radar. Pure suicide.

[Laffertytig]

can someone from gwx please give some feedback on this

[Jimbuna]

can someone from gwx please give some feedback on this

Reference to 'environmentals' is made on page 279 of the manual:
http://mysite.orange.co.uk/manual/GWX/GWX_MANUAL_EN_PF.pdf

For a more detailed search re: equipment look in the relevent programme files :arrgh!:

[Laffertytig]

i wouldnt know which files to look in. and anyway i dont want to know the specific dates that dd's have radar as this would make things predictable.
on uboat.net it says that the first radar set on a corvette was march 41, the first sinking with radar was nov 41 and by may 1942 236 escorts had radar installed.

im assuming the problems i had above are to with radar and not wacky AI. my patrol was oct 41 so maybe i was just REALLY unlucky

so my question is how is this handled in gwx? are different radar types on escorts modelled, and are dates randomized to a certain degree when they become available or what? is there a gradual increase in dd's equipped with radar?

not havin a pop at u guys as i think gwx is a work of art but this issue is troubling me as i was under the impression that it wasnt until at least mid 42 before surface attacks become more dangerous, albeit that there are always exceptions

thanks in advance

[Jimbuna]

so my question is how is this handled in gwx? are different radar types on escorts modelled, and are dates randomized to a certain degree when they become available or what? is there a gradual increase in dd's equipped with radar?

To the best of my knowledge there is a gradual increase in the number of ships so equipped and as time passes also there experience levels ie: veteran, elite etc :arrgh!:

[Laffertytig]

after readin the gwx/twilight thread on this page where the guy was spotted by dd's in heavy fog in 1940 its begining to sound more like wacky AI than radar.

i know gwx took months of hard work but is there some game engine limitation that has dd's see through fog?

[maillemaker]

Be careful in heavy fog in convoy attacks. Ships have a tendency to ram your boat.

That's for sure. I was chasing down a convoy in foul weather at night once and had just found one of the merchants and the next thing you know a destroyer was cutting my sub in half with his bow! Never saw him until the crew started yelling "We're taking damage, Sir!"

Steve