View Full Version : [WIP/TEC] Roll/pitch enhancement
I am currently trying increase the roll/pitch of boats to a point I feel is more realistic, and will release if anyone would be interested in it etc. I've ran into a few problems though and was wondering if any of you more experienced modders had a solution to it.
I tried created the roll by increasing the mass/gc_height and increasing the max/min elevation but these values seem to have affected my ships ability to dive. My porpoise for example only goes to about 41 feet deep, period and refuses to go any deeper no matter what. The s-18/42 class boats will dive as deep as you want but seem to reamin roughly 8feet above thier designated depth. Does anyone have any idea what values would affect this? If I cant figure this out I'll just leave this to someone who knows what they are doing :P
TheBrauerHour
04-29-07, 05:39 PM
I am definately interested in this. Sorry I can't help, but best of luck.
trimzeke
04-30-07, 12:27 PM
I am currently trying increase the roll/pitch of boats to a point I feel is more realistic, and will release if anyone would be interested in it etc. I've ran into a few problems though and was wondering if any of you more experienced modders had a solution to it.
I tried created the roll by increasing the mass/gc_height and increasing the max/min elevation but these values seem to have affected my ships ability to dive. My porpoise for example only goes to about 41 feet deep, period and refuses to go any deeper no matter what. The s-18/42 class boats will dive as deep as you want but seem to reamin roughly 8feet above thier designated depth. Does anyone have any idea what values would affect this? If I cant figure this out I'll just leave this to someone who knows what they are doing :P
Had the same problem... I think it has to do with the 'mass' value... anyways, using TT's MiniTweaker, I set maxelevation @45 and minelevation @-45.... I left mass @ 0.. I set the gc for S-18 class @3.5... for all the others, I set gc @3.25.... seems to work pretty good... no more shallow PD-broaching... or bad depth control...
If you set gc at 3.8... your boat will probably roll upside down... so, I suspect 3.5 -3.7 or thereabouts is the upper limit... I have no idea if gc is meters or feet... or what the reference point is... just remember... the center of gravity ... measured vertically... cannot exceed the center of bouyancy... measured vertically... by too much or else the boat will lose its righting moment and flip upside down... but, to get that true 'seasick rolling' effect, the gc must be set higher than the center of bouyancy (bc)... just my 2 cents..
I'm very interested in this too, but I'm afraid I'll be no help in figuring out the best values as I never had to look at these for SH3. I'm hoping the developers eventually address it as at the moment the boats really feel like they're on rails. One thing I did do in RFB was to reduce the wave trough depths so that the boat didn't appear to float through the air from wave to wave, but I don't think that info will help at all with pitching and rolling.
Schunken
04-30-07, 12:57 PM
trimzeke....
would you be so kind and offer your file for download... ???
A computer Noob like me can only copy/paste :lol:
Andreas
My values for the sboats if you want them:
restr_dist = 200
maxTraverse = 153
minTraverse = 207
speedTraverse = 20
maxElevation = 103
minElevation = -103
speedElevation = 12
trav_min = 350
trav_max = 10
elev_min = -103
elev_max = 103
mass = 845
gc_height = 1.4
fr_ratio = 0.5
put_on_water = 1
displacementSurfaced = 850
draughtSurfaced = 5.257
dragSurfaced = 0.5
displacementSubmerged = 1126
draughtSubmerged = 6.6
dragSubmerged = 0.5
I dont think you can simply pack them up without overriding other mods, you have to use the SH3 mini tweaker to use them. Its not really that hard to learn to use, I r teh n00b too and I fIgured it out :)
Bah still no luck in figuring this problem out, I dont understand why i can make the S boat work farely well but anything bigger seems to have problems diving when I try to tweak the values =/
After today I wont have much time to work on this due to finals etc
@ Beery, Aye I did that as well, definetly helps a bit.
trimzeke
04-30-07, 03:00 PM
trimzeke....
would you be so kind and offer your file for download... ???
A computer Noob like me can only copy/paste :lol:
Andreas
OK, I'll give it a shot. You should be able to find the download .rar file here: http://hosted.filefront.com/trimzeke/
Ok another setback, I can't seem to get these values to affect v1.2. Using 1.1 these values actually got the affect I wanted, but now its the same old same old, a boat on a rail.
Would using the generic mod enabler and then using the sh3 tweaker cause this ? I didnt use the JSGME before.
Schunken
05-01-07, 01:52 AM
thanks for the download trimzeke :)
Andreas
trimzeke
05-01-07, 08:29 AM
@kataki... very puzzling... these are 1.2 NSS****.sim files that I tweaked with TT's Mini-Tweaker... using JSGME should have no effect on them... I use it all the time to activate-deactivate mods with no side effects... if you tweak them yourself with the MT, then that will definitely cause some changes though.... remember, I set the mass value to '0' because of strange depth control problems... and the gc value less than 3.8.... with min and max elevation set to -45 and 45... that's all I did... I get lots of movement on all the boats, especially the big fleet boats.... it's not real dramatic, but is still 'ocean rolling'...
Thanks for the info, I guess Ill just keep messing with it on and off until something happens :P
Edit: Well for whatever reason I can change the files now and I was messing around and changed the gc value to 4 and the boat is upside down :) lol good stuff
Edit2: Hmm after testing some more I am definetly affecting the boat, but not in the same manner as before. The boat still looks as though it is on rails. Does your boat still look like its on a rail trimzeke especially when you leave the mass at 0?
Edit numero tres: I feel stupid now, but I forgot to change the sim.cfg file They made a HUGE difference. When I use a mass of 845 with the sim.cfg I get a dramatic effect, but along with the depth keeping problems. At best its around a depth difference of 8ft, but I think it increases with depth.
[Mech]
Waves amplitude= (atm I am using .65)
Waves attenuation= (atm I am using .15)
I changed the Waves Attenuation to 0.01 and the boats seem to pitch and roll more realistically, but the downside is that they have trouble staying surfaced.
I just took out an S-18 using a wave attenuation value of 0.03 and waited for a 15m/s storm. I found one after a few days and took the S-18 through a few tests. The boat dived okay and surfaced properly (I tested this three times just to be sure). The 'flying from wave top to wave top' thing doesn't happen (although it's not quite as good looking as the 0.01 value. Better still the sub no longer travels on rails - it pitches and rolls more like what we were used to in SH3 (but not too much - about what I'd expect for a little boat like the S-18). I also did two long periscope depth dives to the full extent of the battery and I had no problem with leaking compressed air.
I think we've found the sweet spot guys. :up: So you might want to try adjusting the wave attenuation to 0.03 on your games and see if you get good results too. I'll test other boats later today or tomorrow, but since the S-18 was the boat having problems I'm hopeful that this has cracked it.
Note the only difference is the Waves Attenuation number - all other boat sailing and wave stuff is the same as stock SH3.
I'll give .3 a try, what wave amplitude are you using btw? And you say you didnt notice any depth problems?
I'll give .3 a try, what wave amplitude are you using btw? And you say you didnt notice any depth problems?
It's 0.03 and wave amplitude as stock SH4 (0.2 if I recall correctly). I haven't noticed any significant depth problems. The boat might be a few feet off when deeply submerged, but nothing really noticeable. The only real problem is that the 'flying sub' issue is not completely removed as the boat rides a bit high in heavy seas.
I suspect there are a lot of us watching this thread very closely, good work, and good luck guys, and thanks for working on this!
TheBrauerHour
05-01-07, 08:32 PM
You got that right. Now that I am home from work, I am going to start messing with it too!
Marko_Ramius
05-01-07, 09:14 PM
I'm watching this thread too, guys. I wish you good luck for this.
Really odd stock behavior of the sub on big sea ...
:up:
I'll give .3 a try, what wave amplitude are you using btw? And you say you didnt notice any depth problems?
It's 0.03 and wave amplitude as stock SH4 (0.2 if I recall correctly). I haven't noticed any significant depth problems. The boat might be a few feet off when deeply submerged, but nothing really noticeable. The only real problem is that the 'flying sub' issue is not completely removed as the boat rides a bit high in heavy seas.
I think the depth keeping issues are related to the mass values as someone previously mentioned. Unfortunetly the mass values are what gave me the most dramatic rolling action so far.
Have you got any boats other than the S-boats to work with mass values? When I have tired the boat either refuses to dive deeper than 2-3 feet. I will try messing with them a lot more tommarow after I reinstall sh4 for the fourth time >_>
I think the depth keeping issues are related to the mass values as someone previously mentioned. Unfortunetly the mass values are what gave me the most dramatic rolling action so far.
I haven't touched the mass values because I'm a bit wary of messing with something that seemingly has so much potential blowback.
602Sqn_Puff
05-02-07, 01:31 AM
After my intial post regarding the compressed air problem { Gar class in 14m/s wind } I currently run this mod here and have just tried changing the wave attenuation to 0.03 { as per RFB mod } and so far have not had any problems with depth keeping , the boat does move up and down { approx 1' over time by itself } but this does not use any compressed air. This is with a Salmon class in 13m/s wind. Seems to ride lower in the water and also not so much on rails...plus a nice roll and some pitch too. If you guys want any more info of the settings in my configs just drop me a line.
trimzeke
05-02-07, 06:52 AM
on Beery's findings... I changed wave attenuation in the sim.cfg file to .03.... no blowback so far...
I've set gc=3.5 for the sugarboat and gc=3.3 for all the other boats.... no blowback and no filipping upside down... kataki reported flipping at gc=3.4 (errr... 4... my bad) on the fleet boats...
I've left mass=0 because of the diving problem.... too much 'cork' blowback on the fleet boats.. whereas the sugarboat sinks like a rock...
I've set minelevation at -45 maxelevation to 45.... to control the pitching motion.. no blowback so far...
Mass=0... that is very important... all the other adjustments seem ok as long as the mass is left alone...
I don't want to give anyone the wrong idea - they're not my findings. Someone (I don't know who) posted them a couple of weeks ago as a way to reduce the 'flying boat' effect. I'm just relaying them to you guys 'cos I thought it was relevant here.
602Sqn_Puff
05-02-07, 10:27 AM
Trimzeke..did your download include these figures or have you made more changes since posting the JSGME file? If you have made changes after posting any chance of an updated file please?
Hmm I wonder if I decreased the pitching on the boats then maybe I could get SD to pick up just air contacts...?
I guess most people wouldnt trade SD for pitching..
I've set gc=3.5 for the sugarboat and gc=3.3 for all the other boats.... no blowback and no filipping upside down... kataki reported flipping at gc=3.4 (errr... 4... my bad) on the fleet boats...
I've left mass=0 because of the diving problem.... too much 'cork' blowback on the fleet boats.. whereas the sugarboat sinks like a rock...
I've set minelevation at -45 maxelevation to 45.... to control the pitching motion.. no blowback so far...
Mass=0... that is very important... all the other adjustments seem ok as long as the mass is left alone...
Not a critic to you trimzeke, just to put things straight, minelevation and maxelevation (Tweak files are wrong for the subs) restrain the elevation angles of THE GUNS. The only values that has something to do with the hydrodinamic behaviour are :
mass
gc_height
2,fr_ratio
put_on_water
displacementSurfaced
draughtSurfaced
dragSurfaced
displacementSubmerged
draughtSubmerged
dragSubmerged
Ref
Thanks for clearing that up ref. I was messing with those before and never would have noticed the gun.
trimzeke
05-02-07, 02:39 PM
restrain the elevation angles of THE GUNS[/b]. The only values that has something to do with the hydrodinamic behaviour are :
mass
gc_height
2,fr_ratio
put_on_water
displacementSurfaced
draughtSurfaced
dragSurfaced
displacementSubmerged
draughtSubmerged
dragSubmerged
Ref
OOPs... my bad. I'll have to reset the elevation values. I 'll upload new, re-tweaked NSS***sim files over at filefront later.... and thanks, Ref, for the info...I would have never guessed that in million years
restrain the elevation angles of THE GUNS[/b]. The only values that has something to do with the hydrodinamic behaviour are :
mass
gc_height
2,fr_ratio
put_on_water
displacementSurfaced
draughtSurfaced
dragSurfaced
displacementSubmerged
draughtSubmerged
dragSubmerged
Ref
OOPs... my bad. I'll have to reset the elevation values. I 'll upload new, re-tweaked NSS***sim files over at filefront later.... and thanks, Ref, for the info...I would have never guessed that in million years
I can't recall from memory if the values in the minitweaker file are for the deck gun or the AA, if it was for the first you probably won't see a difference unless you engage at very long ranges, but if it's the AA then the ai crew won't be able to fire to near planes.
Ref
trimzeke
05-02-07, 10:15 PM
Ok, I've updated the NSS files in the .rar to Stage 2. It is located here:http://hosted.filefront.com/trimzeke
...I have had no depth control problems or shallow PD broaching. Boat rides with normal draft at the surface.
I understand that further testing on all sub classes, (with different mass and gc height numbers), will be necessary as the process is refined.
Hope this helps.
As far as lower and higher values go, it's probably a mistake to assume that larger attenuation values will attenuate the waves more - I've found that the devs at Ubisoft Rumania often use methods that don't conform to standard notions of logic or intuition. I've tested lower and higher values and lower values make the waves smaller whereas higher values do not seem to attenuate the waves at all.
With 0.03 I also have no flying sub, the boat falls into wave troughs with a nice pitch and roll with waves flowing over the deck and no depth control problems or shallow PD broaching. Also, the boat rides with normal draught at the surface - and this happens without having to change any other values whatsoever.
Why change multiple values including sub *.sim file values to get the same effect that we can get by simply changing the attenuation to 0.03? As a fan of economy of effort, why should I change nineteen things (attenuation plus mass and GC values for all subs) when changing one will fix the problem?
602Sqn_Puff
05-05-07, 08:11 AM
As soon as I changed the settings to 0.03 all was well until I ran into 15m/s winds, at 100 feet the boat rose and dived over 20 feet , running with TC at 512 this would drain the compressed air at a dramatic rate. Outcome is that I have changed back to the stock 0.75, changing these other settings would give the same result without the compressed air problem?
As soon as I changed the settings to 0.03 all was well until I ran into 15m/s winds, at 100 feet the boat rose and dived over 20 feet , running with TC at 512 this would drain the compressed air at a dramatic rate. Outcome is that I have changed back to the stock 0.75.
i second that. same here. even submerged at periscope depth the boat was all over the place.
As soon as I changed the settings to 0.03 all was well until I ran into 15m/s winds, at 100 feet the boat rose and dived over 20 feet , running with TC at 512 this would drain the compressed air at a dramatic rate...
I've tested at 15m/s at 0.03 and run the boat three times for 12-hour stretches at periscope depth without running out of air. What boat were you using and what other mods were you using, 'cos I've never seen this problem.
i second that. same here. even submerged at periscope depth the boat was all over the place.
The boat should move at periscope depth. Wave effect goes well below the surface in storms. The question is does the air run out? In my tests it doesn't, and that was using the boat that should be most affected - the S-18.
It was a Balao class sub, thing was, i was in a harbor, the waves werent THAT big and the boat must have been swinging through 30 feet. It was very strange.
I'll test a Balao boat in 15m/s and report back here. Usually, if I'm getting different results from other people these things turn out to be caused by other mods, but I haven't tested a Balao class boat yet so I can't be sure.
In my experience I had the most trouble getting the larger fleet boats to work and havent found a sweet spot yet.
602Sqn_Puff
05-05-07, 12:40 PM
Beery, here are the mods I have running in the JSGME. The enhanced pitch and roll is this mod , in this thread and I am currently not running the 9km mod nor the depth crush mod.
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/4928/stuffoh9.jpg
hope this helps :)
I just did a test with a Balao class sub. I'm using the extended battery life mod. Here are the results:
1st test: Balao at 11m/s wind speed, dived to periscope depth, raised time compression to 4096, stayed under for 24 hours. Result, no visible drop in compressed air levels. Surfaced, sub performed perfectly with good pitch and roll and no flying.
2nd test: Balao at 15m/s wind speed, dived to periscope depth, raised time compression to 512, stayed under for two hours. No visible drop in compressed air levels. Raised TC to 4096, stayed under for 24 hours. Result, no visible drop in compressed air levels. Surfaced, sub performed perfectly with good pitch and roll and no flying.
3rd test: Balao at 15m/s wind speed, raised time compression to 4096, dived to periscope depth, stayed under for 24 hours. Result, no visible drop in compressed air levels. Surfaced, sub performed perfectly with good pitch and roll and no flying.
As far as I can see the excessive compressed air loss must be being caused by some other mod or by the use of a no-CD crack (which can, I believe, cause this issue).
602Sqn_Puff
05-05-07, 03:28 PM
Those are the only mods Im running and use the disc to play :( What was the compressed air usage at depths of 100 ft or more in the 15m/s wind?
Beery, here are the mods I have running in the JSGME. The enhanced pitch and roll is this mod , in this thread and I am currently not running the 9km mod nor the depth crush mod.
Out of the mods you list at least two would be prime candidates to be the cause of the problem with compressed air loss when combined with a 0.03 wave attenuation number. I'd take out the depth charge shake mod, Kosh's stealthy sub, real lifeboats and SH4 Crush depths and see if the compressed air loss goes away when using that 0.03 wave attenuation number. Then plug them all back in one at a time to see which one is causing the problem. Also, I'm not sure what the ISI mod does - it doesn't sound like it affects water or buoyancy but I'm not sure.
The problem is that mods that affect waves and buoyancy characteristics are very finely balanced and the game can be greatly affected when mod A is influenced by data in mod B - data that mod A's author fully expected to remain the same as the stock game. When two mods are combined it can have unforeseen consequences even when the files modded in one mod are not the same as those modded in the other mod - this is why large scale super mods are so useful - because these big mods combine mods and the guy combining the mods tests them thoroughly for compatibility. Each mod is only guaranteed to work on its own with the stock game: add other mods and anything can happen.
By the way, if you're using RFB 1.20 you already have the 'real medals' mod. Also, I believe the 'realistic crush depths' mod is no longer needed as the devs fixed crush depths in 1.2 (although I reckon they're still a bit on the conservative side).
Okay I've finally reproduced the problem. It seems to have something to do with saving and loading a game in mid-patrol - perhaps only when loading a game during a storm. In my previous test I started out a new career mission and did the test after finding a 15m/s windspeed. This time I tested with a game saved in mid-patrol during a storm. First thing I noticed was that wave heights were HUGE - far bigger than any wave I'd seen before - and my boat was flying. I did the test and sure enough the boat was bouncing up and down at anywhere between 1x and 1024x TC and big-time compressed air loss. Above 1024 the effect does not seem to happen and there's no loss of compressed air.
I've never seen the problem before, probably because I rarely (if ever) load a game in mid-patrol. I usually try to play a patrol all in one long session.
Beery,
Nice job, finding that, i was beging to think i was crazy, or i had too much to drink that particular evening ;)
yes indeed i did get that AFTER a reload (no cracks, but i do run several mods) and i know for sure i reloaded at some point (several times).
:hmm:
typically, and im no expert on this, but if a wave is 8 feet high, it should be about 8 feet or so down as well. so at periscope depth the sub should be stable. For me it was ALL over the pace, it was windy but not fully max wave height yet, and i was picking off targets at dock inside a harbor so i was in shallow waters.
great work, we'll get this hammered out sooner or later :yep:
Okay I ran some tests. Here's the deal:
With a wave attenuation value of 0.03 in a game saved while in a storm: waves are very big and compressed air runs out after about four hours if the player is running at between 1 and 512 TC. Above 512: the compressed air lasts much longer. If you're running at over 2000 TC the compressed air loss is minimal.
With a wave attenuation value of 0.03 in a game started from port and played straight through without loading a save: waves are small but compressed air still runs out after about eight hours if the player is running at between 1 and 512 TC. Above 512 the compressed air lasts much longer. If you're running at over 2000 TC the compressed air loss is minimal.
I have yet to test if saving/loading a patrol in calmer seas helps the problem, but basically it doesn't matter whether the player saves the game in a storm or out or if he runs a patrol in one sitting from start to finish - the compressed air runs out faster than the electric battery, so it's a definite problem for anyone who runs at under 1024 TC no matter how they save the game.
This is so frustrating to me - I mean these are pesky little annoyances that shouldn't be getting in the way of fixing the game. It almost seems to me that the devs must have run into this bug while the game was in development and instead of tracking it down and fixing it properly they made a work-around by boosting the wave attenuation value to a point where the boat flies between the wave tops and doesn't pitch or roll.
I think this is a problem that the developers ought to fix. I mean the SH3 subs behaved perfectly - they pitched and rolled much more realistically in heavy seas and they never came entirely out of the water. We shouldn't have to spend our time to try to fix this 'amateur hour' crap. I mean I'm spending hours on this penny-ante gameplay nonsense when I could be spending time doing what I really like - making the game more historically accurate. I'm really beginning to feel that with garbage code like this we're paying to beta test this lemon for them. I mean who ever heard of a value that's supposedly adjustable from "<0" being bugged whenever it's set at less than 0.75? I mean if it's supposed to work with any number greater than zero it should work with any number greater than zero.
:damn: :damn: :damn: :damn: :damn: :damn: :damn:
Anyway, I guess this means we are indeed forced to mess with 19 values to change one pesky problem. Damnit developers, throw us a frigging bone! I mean when we ask for submarines we should get submarines, not some sort of weird submersible hovercraft. :down:
602Sqn_Puff
05-05-07, 11:40 PM
Great job in finding that Beery, I thought it was something I was doing wrong. It would affect me more due to not running over 256 in TC throughout the whole patrol. Just a thought, before the battery times were changed wouldn't the air run out at about the same time as the batteries in stock 1.2?
I guess using stock batteries would reduce the apparent problem.
As an aside I think it's interesting that the wave heights are vastly different when we save in mid patrol. It seems that some sort of wave attenuation value isn't getting into the save game files properly.
I'm wondering now if, instead of adjusting all the boats' mass values, we could reduce the rate of decay of the compressed air - that would solve the problem with only two alterations.
I'm also wondering if the battery mod I'm using is really realistic. I'm getting batteries that allow the sub to go at 1/3rd speed for over 24 hours and that recharge in just a few hours - it seems a bit unlikely that a 1940s sub battery could be so efficient. I wonder wher I can find info on that?
I tested saving a patrol in calm seas and then going into a storm: the wave attenuation works properly, reducing the waves so that the boat doesn't 'fly' or produce the wild 'bouncing' that the big waves seem to cause. This means that most of the compressed air problem we're seeing can be avoided as along as we:
1. don't save during a storm.
2. run at high time compress as much as possible during storms.
TheBrauerHour
05-06-07, 10:12 AM
I appreciate all the hard work being done about this issue. All this reading made me fire up SHIII and just sit at the harbor watching myself gently sway back and forth. I can't wait till this is fixed and and the mod released!!! :rock:
Beery, here are the mods I have running in the JSGME. The enhanced pitch and roll is this mod , in this thread and I am currently not running the 9km mod nor the depth crush mod.
Out of the mods you list at least two would be prime candidates to be the cause of the problem with compressed air loss when combined with a 0.03 wave attenuation number. I'd take out the depth charge shake mod, Kosh's stealthy sub, real lifeboats and SH4 Crush depths and see if the compressed air loss goes away when using that 0.03 wave attenuation number. Then plug them all back in one at a time to see which one is causing the problem. Also, I'm not sure what the ISI mod does - it doesn't sound like it affects water or buoyancy but I'm not sure.
The problem is that mods that affect waves and buoyancy characteristics are very finely balanced and the game can be greatly affected when mod A is influenced by data in mod B - data that mod A's author fully expected to remain the same as the stock game. When two mods are combined it can have unforeseen consequences even when the files modded in one mod are not the same as those modded in the other mod - this is why large scale super mods are so useful - because these big mods combine mods and the guy combining the mods tests them thoroughly for compatibility. Each mod is only guaranteed to work on its own with the stock game: add other mods and anything can happen.
By the way, if you're using RFB 1.20 you already have the 'real medals' mod. Also, I believe the 'realistic crush depths' mod is no longer needed as the devs fixed crush depths in 1.2 (although I reckon they're still a bit on the conservative side).
Erm isnt Koshes stealth sub just a sound mod. Im almost certain its the depth charge shake mod.
Also about the battery life mod, I think the recharge time was fixed or something and he couldnt change it Im not certain.
Thanks for doing the work =/ I've been lazy and traded to SH3 for the time being as I am having problems getting SH4 to run correctly.
Erm isnt Koshes stealth sub just a sound mod. Im almost certain its the depth charge shake mod.
Also about the battery life mod, I think the recharge time was fixed or something and he couldnt change it Im not certain...
We now know the compressed air loss problem is not caused by any mod. It's a bug in the game that causes subs to bounce up and down when certain wave attenuation values are mixed with time compression values under 1024x. Plus the issue becomes much worse if the player has saved a game during a storm. So all mods are off the hook.
On the battery life mod, I've checked all the settings and as far as endurance underwater goes they actually seem pretty much spot-on, although I can't find any data for recharge rates.
On the battery life mod, I've checked all the settings and as far as endurance underwater goes they actually seem pretty much spot-on, although I can't find any data for recharge rates.
So am I :-?
I found only this -> http://www.uboat.net/forums/read.php?20,61706,61708#msg-61708
On a side note..
To stop subs "flying" in heavy seas, you can use the scene.dat tweak file to remove the LargeWavesCoef from WaveState4. Change it from 1 to 0.
You get sligthlty smaller waves, but the sub acts normally.
On a side note..
To stop subs "flying" in heavy seas, you can use the scene.dat tweak file to remove the LargeWavesCoef from WaveState4. Change it from 1 to 0.
You get sligthlty smaller waves, but the sub acts normally.
Great find! Thanks for the info. I'll plug that in and get rid of the 0.03 waves attenuation.
Canonicus
05-08-07, 10:01 AM
On a side note..
To stop subs "flying" in heavy seas, you can use the scene.dat tweak file to remove the LargeWavesCoef from WaveState4. Change it from 1 to 0.
You get sligthlty smaller waves, but the sub acts normally.
The problem with "flying subs" is not , IMO, with the waves.....
But with the boats.......
The stock values for surface draught are to LOW
Which means......ALL of the sub classes are riding too high in the water.
Those values need to higher.
Proper draught....means that the boats will ride lower in the water and will not fly.
All you need to do is look at enogh photos of the subs (stopped and in a calm sea or harbor) and you can tell by lookiing
at the same boat in the game that they are riding too high.
Not true
I have edited draughts to lower the boats and also changed waveattenuation to 0.03 -0.02 and in a 15m/s wind /sea state, my sub flys...
I didnt sea a flying sub when I removed the LargeWave Coeff though..
In wave states 1-3 the subs rise and fall with peaks and troughs, something special happens in wave state 4.
You are right about subs being too high best example is the stock Porpoise. I could upload my sub files for you if you like. I lowered some of them. But as I mentioned previously this impacts on sensors...
Canonicus
05-08-07, 11:34 AM
Jace11....
Exactly what kind of impact on sensors have you seen with the porpoise?
I have'nt tryed your mod on the LargeWavesCoef in WaveState 4 yet, but I will.
I'l try it and then see what happens.
The boats are definitely too high in the water though..and I think this is part of the solution, which seems to be getting closer :yep:
In wave states 1-3 the subs rise and fall with peaks and troughs, something special happens in wave state 4....
I've always though SH3 and 4 exaggerated wave heights anyway. I've been on the edge of a hurricane at sea and the wave swells never got anywhere near 20ft (which is what we seem to be seeing at 15m/s). 20ft swells are 40ft from tip to trough - that's huge - it's what you'd expect to see at the centre of a big hurricane maybe, but not in a 30mph wind (which is about what 15m/s equates to). Personally I think all the wave states need dropping by one level. Maybe I'll do that in RFB and see how it looks.
Bill Nichols
05-08-07, 01:23 PM
Beery -
Check this out:
Sea State Photographs for Determining Wind Speed
The Beaufort Wind Force Scale
http://www.geology.wmich.edu/Kominz/windwater.html
Beery -
Check this out:
Sea State Photographs for Determining Wind Speed
The Beaufort Wind Force Scale
http://www.geology.wmich.edu/Kominz/windwater.html
If my math is correct 15m/s is aprox 54 km/h (29 knts) then the wave height at 15mts/s should be around 5 mts., so SH4 (and sh3 also) wave are extremelly exagerated...
Ref
I finally tried Jace11's LargeWavesCoef solution and it works like a charm. The boats pitch and roll and there's no depth-keeping problem whatsoever.
Beery -
Check this out:
Sea State Photographs for Determining Wind Speed
The Beaufort Wind Force Scale
http://www.geology.wmich.edu/Kominz/windwater.html
Yeah, this is one of the sites I remember from the discussions we had about SH3. I think this backs me up because as I understand it the 20ft swells (40ft wave height) are in force 8 or 9 gales, which is beyond the game's 15m/s.
Canonicus
05-08-07, 03:16 PM
I finally tried Jace11's LargeWavesCoef solution and it works like a charm. The boats pitch and roll and there's no depth-keeping problem whatsoever.
Berry.....
Are you using this in conjuction with your 0.03 wave attenuation value?
or...just by itself?
Also....Have you tryed any surface draught changes?
Thanks
I finally tried Jace11's LargeWavesCoef solution and it works like a charm. The boats pitch and roll and there's no depth-keeping problem whatsoever.
Berry.....
Are you using this in conjuction with your 0.03 wave attenuation value?
or...just by itself?
Also....Have you tryed any surface draught changes?
Thanks
I used it just by itself - works great.
On the sub surface draught issue, I did change one - the S-class boat - because it seemed too low at the bow. I got mixed results because one of the issues with that boat is that it rides too low at the bow but too high at the stern, so to get the stern looking right you have to make it look way too low at the bow. I still haven't figured this one out. Basically the whole rudder assembly needs to be underwater while the anchor should be out of the water.
602Sqn_Puff
05-08-07, 03:26 PM
Look forward to the mod coming out to test this myself...it's the only thing I don't really like in SH4 is the flying subs :(
Canonicus
05-08-07, 03:39 PM
I finally tried Jace11's LargeWavesCoef solution and it works like a charm. The boats pitch and roll and there's no depth-keeping problem whatsoever.
Berry.....
Are you using this in conjuction with your 0.03 wave attenuation value?
or...just by itself?
Also....Have you tryed any surface draught changes?
Thanks
I used it just by itself - works great.
On the sub surface draught issue, I did change one - the S-class boat - because it seemed too low at the bow. I got mixed results because one of the issues with that boat is that it rides too low at the bow but too high at the stern, so to get the stern looking right you have to make it look way too low at the bow. I still haven't figured this one out. Basically the whole rudder assembly needs to be underwater while the anchor should be out of the water.
Berry....
Does that mean that you went back to using the stock 0.75 wave attenuation value?
or... did you make that value "0"
thanks...
Does that mean that you went back to using the stock 0.75 wave attenuation value?
or... did you make that value "0"
thanks...
I went back to the stock 0.75 value.
Julius Caesar
05-08-07, 04:34 PM
I'll give .3 a try, what wave amplitude are you using btw? And you say you didnt notice any depth problems?
It's 0.03 and wave amplitude as stock SH4 (0.2 if I recall correctly). I haven't noticed any significant depth problems. The boat might be a few feet off when deeply submerged, but nothing really noticeable. The only real problem is that the 'flying sub' issue is not completely removed as the boat rides a bit high in heavy seas.
Just a quick note:
modded SH3 had:
Waves amplitude=0.5
Waves attenuation=0.03
Roadsweeper
05-09-07, 03:27 AM
On a side note..
To stop subs "flying" in heavy seas, you can use the scene.dat tweak file to remove the LargeWavesCoef from WaveState4. Change it from 1 to 0.
You get sligthlty smaller waves, but the sub acts normally.
Can anyone provide a handy link to this tweak file pls? Or does one have to trawl through the ever increasing number of pages to find it again (my age is catching up on me and I cant remember which thread it was linked in) :)
Moding toturials are sticked in sh4 mods forum.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=110889
In wave states 1-3 the subs rise and fall with peaks and troughs, something special happens in wave state 4....
I've always though SH3 and 4 exaggerated wave heights anyway. I've been on the edge of a hurricane at sea and the wave swells never got anywhere near 20ft (which is what we seem to be seeing at 15m/s). 20ft swells are 40ft from tip to trough - that's huge - it's what you'd expect to see at the centre of a big hurricane maybe, but not in a 30mph wind (which is about what 15m/s equates to). Personally I think all the wave states need dropping by one level. Maybe I'll do that in RFB and see how it looks.
Beery, I once witnessed a gale just off Anglesey in Wales with 80mph winds that made ANY waves I've seen in SH3 look like splashing around a bathtub. I was on a cliff overlooking the ocean -- I had to crawl, if I tried to walk I would have been physically swept away -- and I couldn't believe the seascape I saw before me. The wind pressure was so strong my face and ears hurt for the next 2 days. So the windspeed-wavesize ratio may be off, but those immense waves do happen in the North Atlantic, even near shore.
Beery, I once witnessed a gale just off Anglesey in Wales with 80mph winds that made ANY waves I've seen in SH3 look like splashing around a bathtub. I was on a cliff overlooking the ocean -- I had to crawl, if I tried to walk I would have been physically swept away -- and I couldn't believe the seascape I saw before me. The wind pressure was so strong my face and ears hurt for the next 2 days. So the windspeed-wavesize ratio may be off, but those immense waves do happen in the North Atlantic, even near shore.
I'm sure they exist. I've been on a ferry in the Irish Sea (one of the big ferries) where the sea was so rough that it felt like being on a roller-coaster - everyone was throwing up and we were told not to go outside to see the waves because we might not make it back in again. We couldn't even dock in Dun Laoghaire Harbour. It's just that I don't believe such waves can exist with a wind speed of 30mph.
In wave states 1-3 the subs rise and fall with peaks and troughs, something special happens in wave state 4....
I've always though SH3 and 4 exaggerated wave heights anyway. I've been on the edge of a hurricane at sea and the wave swells never got anywhere near 20ft (which is what we seem to be seeing at 15m/s). 20ft swells are 40ft from tip to trough - that's huge - it's what you'd expect to see at the centre of a big hurricane maybe, but not in a 30mph wind (which is about what 15m/s equates to). Personally I think all the wave states need dropping by one level. Maybe I'll do that in RFB and see how it looks.
Beery, I once witnessed a gale just off Anglesey in Wales with 80mph winds that made ANY waves I've seen in SH3 look like splashing around a bathtub. I was on a cliff overlooking the ocean -- I had to crawl, if I tried to walk I would have been physically swept away -- and I couldn't believe the seascape I saw before me. The wind pressure was so strong my face and ears hurt for the next 2 days. So the windspeed-wavesize ratio may be off, but those immense waves do happen in the North Atlantic, even near shore.
Wouldnt the waves be larger near shore anywho? Kinda like the tsunami effect.
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