[TEC] Observation scope

[Kataki]

Ive been hearing that US subs suffered from attack scopes with poor light gathering ability, but the larger head on the observation scope did not suffer this problem. Is it possible to change the scope texture for each individually?

For example, 2RTR's Scope mod (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=112033) is what I would expect from the attack scope as it definetly seems darker than the default scope texture. If the observation scope was lighter then there might actually be a use for it..

[CaptainCox]

The problem is that the game uses the same graphical overlay for the scope ( I have actually not found ONE! good reason for using that observation scope yet!). Now that's a challenge, how would one force the game to use another .DDS for that :hmm:

EDIT:
Checked around a bit, the only thing i find that the Observation Scope uses extra is the "RedMask.dds"

[CaptainCox]

Did some testing. Even when changing the "RedMask" there is no visible changes between the 2 scopes.

[Scoochy]

It's interesting to note that in the attack periscope, when using the stadimeter to drag the image down for ranging, the night vision improves quite a bit. There must me an overlay that effects this, but hopefully it's not used for both scopes.

[CaptainCox]

Could be that "RedMask" but in the "menu_1024_768" i can only find that tied to the Observation Scope...When I tested this ( I basically clogged the RedMask with black) I could not see any difference at night (with Moon Light) or day against the sun. Maybe i missed something...perhaps someone else could try?

[Kataki]

Hmm maybe try white? I dont know to be honest.

Thanks for the effort capncox

[Chrall]

Great idea Kataki. It's actually a very easy to change.
Both this are taken in the same game. First is the Observation periscope and the 2nd is the Attack Periscope. Doesn't really fit together, but you get the point.

Observation Periscope(Graphic:OAK) - Attack Periscope(Graphic: 2RTR)
http://img470.imageshack.us/img470/1193/observationwl8.jpghttp://img470.imageshack.us/img470/291/attackiv0.jpg

Observations Periscope Code:

[G2B I136]
Name=BackgroundWithWhole
Type=1030;Static bmp
ItemID=0x2B000001
ParentID=0x2B000000
Pos=0,0,1024,768
Zone= 0 768 1024 768 5 1 0x2B000000 0.5 -0.5 0x2B000001 -0.5 0.5 0 0
Color=0xFFFFFFFF
Materials=1
Display=2;Linear
Mat 0=data/menu/gui/layout/periscope_mask_1024.tga
Crop 0=0,0.125,1,0.75
MatFlags=0x9
TexFmt=0x0

Change to whatever graphic you'd like.

Attack Periscope Code:
[G26 I137]
Name=BackgroundWithWhole
Type=1030;Static bmp
ItemID=0x26000001
ParentID=0x26000000
Pos=0,0,1024,768
Zone= 0 768 1024 768 5 1 0x26000000 0.5 -0.5 0x26000001 -0.5 0.5 0 0
Color=0xFFFFFFFF
Materials=1
Display=2;Linear
Mat 0=data/menu/gui/layout/periscope_mask_1024.tga
Crop 0=0,0.125,1,0.75
MatFlags=0x9
TexFmt=0x0

Change to whatever graphic you'd like.

As default both use the same .dds file(periscope_mask_1024.dds), changing this single line for either obs scope or attack scope will change graphic for that periscope.

[Sailor Steve]

Ive been hearing that US subs suffered from attack scopes with poor light gathering ability, but the larger head on the observation scope did not suffer this problem.
Not just US; it was the same for the Germans.

[Kataki]

Good Stuff Chrall! I'll Give that a try, thanks!

Btw for anyone who doesnt know where that text is located; its in C:\Program Files\Ubisoft\Silent Hunter 4 Wolves of the Pacific\Data\Menu\menu_1024_768.ini

And thanks for the clarification steve.

Heh, It worked! Finally a use for the OBS scope.

[panthercules]

Hmmm - I must be missing something here - I tried opening up the existing periscope_mask_1024.tga file in paintshop pro and just reducing the brightness by about 30% and then saving it back down as darker_periscope_mask_1024.tga and then modifying the attack scope section of the .ini file to point to that new darker file. However, in game the attack scope graphics (lines/crosshairs) were all screwed up and there was a circle inside a circle in the scope view.

Is there some kind of trick about changing or saving down the .tga file that I'm missing here? I think it would be great for the attack scope to be a little darker than the obs scope, and it seems to be doable based on the posts above, but obviously something is going wrong here :cry:



[Edit] Well, I tried just changing the "color" line in the .ini file to a light gray* but it changed the whole screen so that the portion outside the scope circle just got semi-transparent, so obviously that's not the answer. I also tried saving the darker file down as "uncompressed" .tga (Paintshop Pro had defaulted to "compressed" and I hadn't noticed the first time around), but that didn't make any difference either. Any ideas?

*yet another thing I don't understand - all the hex codes I could find for colors show only 6 digits/places (such as FFFFFF), but the color line in the .ini file says "Color=0xFFFFFFFF", with 8 digits/places - what's with that?

[Kataki]

I never messed with the actual periscope texture, I just dloaded 2RTR's awesome scope texture for the attack scope (it is darker, has a slight blur, and has wear and tear on the scope) and used the default for the OBS scope as it is larger and clear.

So I renamed the orginal, obs_periscope_mask.dds (I used the DDS, I dont see a .tga for it..hmm either way it works) and changed the

[G2B I136]
Name=BackgroundWithWhole
Type=1030;Static bmp
ItemID=0x2B000001
ParentID=0x2B000000
Pos=0,0,1024,768
Zone= 0 768 1024 768 5 1 0x2B000000 0.5 -0.5 0x2B000001 -0.5 0.5 0 0
Color=0xFFFFFFFF
Materials=1
Display=2;Linear
Mat 0=data/menu/gui/layout/periscope_mask_1024.tga < to obs_periscope_mask_1024.tga (again I dont know why it works when I changed the DDS obs_periscope mask not a TGA version.)
Crop 0=0,0.125,1,0.75
MatFlags=0x9
TexFmt=0x0

Now Id like to change the Zoom levels of the OBS scope to allow it to zoom in farther, as is it seems to zoom in less than the attack scope.. at least the way I am using it.

Edit:Figured it out :)

[panthercules]

I never messed with the actual periscope texture, I just dloaded 2RTR's awesome scope texture for the attack scope (it is darker, has a slight blur, and has wear and tear on the scope) and used the default for the OBS scope as it is larger and clear.

So I renamed the orginal, obs_periscope_mask.dds (I used the DDS, I dont see a .tga for it..hmm either way it works) and changed the

[G2B I136]
Name=BackgroundWithWhole
Type=1030;Static bmp
ItemID=0x2B000001
ParentID=0x2B000000
Pos=0,0,1024,768
Zone= 0 768 1024 768 5 1 0x2B000000 0.5 -0.5 0x2B000001 -0.5 0.5 0 0
Color=0xFFFFFFFF
Materials=1
Display=2;Linear
Mat 0=data/menu/gui/layout/periscope_mask_1024.tga < to obs_periscope_mask_1024.tga (again I dont know why it works when I changed the DDS obs_periscope mask not a TGA version.)
Crop 0=0,0.125,1,0.75
MatFlags=0x9
TexFmt=0x0

Now Id like to change the Zoom levels of the OBS scope to allow it to zoom in farther, as is it seems to zoom in less than the attack scope.. at least the way I am using it.

Thanks - that did the trick - worked like a charm - looks great in game - can't wait to actually try it with some real targets.

However, the obs scope is supposed to zoom in less than the attack scope - the trade off for the obs scope compared to the attack scope was higher light entry for better low-light visibility (plus, the ability to tilt higher for aircraft spotting) but lower magnification - if you jack up the zoom level of the obs scope you kinda defeat the purpose of darkening up the attack scope to make them different

[Scoochy]

Correct. Obs scope was a larger scope, with greater field of view and better in low light conditions. The trade off for this though is a less powerful zoom. Represents actual performance....for the most part.

[Kataki]

Heh thanks for the clarification. And again, thank you Chrall :D Its really nice having the second option so I dont have to cheat and turn off post processing and turn up the gamma at night to see through a scope.

[Kataki]

Heh thanks for the clarification.

Edit: If you are trying to edit the cross hair, it is in the DDS file as the alpha channel. I still don't have all this figured out yet but its fun getting it to work.

Heh I am just tickled with the results :D

Attack Scope:
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/4415/attackscopeqe0.jpg

Observation scope (Combined KOLLMORGEN TELEMETER scope by Captain Cox and the 2RTR scope)
http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/7517/observationscopebb9.jpg

Here there are at night, which they are actually a little brighter in game.

Attack
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/3198/attacknwn3.jpg

Observation
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/2039/obsnup0.jpg




I'll probably go back and make the backgrounds/everything else besides the picture the same but for now I like the difference between the two.

ER double post 0_o

[CaptainCox]

Really nice find guys. KUDOS!:up:
Now I would only like to have some pics of a "real" observation scope...maybe there is in the http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/pscope/trans01.htm

Submarines traditionally had two periscopes: a navigation or observation periscope and a targeting, or commander's, periscope.These were originally mounted in the conning tower, one forward of the other in the narrow hulls of diesel-electric submarines. In the much wider hulls of recent US Navy submarines, the two are located side-by-side. The observation scope was used to scan the sea surface and sky and typically had a wide field of view and no magnification or low-power magnification. The targeting or "attack" periscope, by comparison, had a narrower field of view and higher magnification.
Actually "panthercules" and "Scoochy" already mentioned this...

[CaptainCox]

Tried this quickly before going to work here.
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/CaptainCox/ATTACKSCOPE.jpg

My 8dgr KOLLMORGEN Attack Scope

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/CaptainCox/OBSERVATIONSCOPE.jpg

Bigger aperture Observation Scope based on my 32dgr KOLLMORGEN

Works super nice I would say. Only thing I should tweak is the actual graphic lines in the 32dgr as i simply scaled them up to fit the bigger aperture, so the lines gets thicker...will tinker with it after work. Again great find guys!!!!:up:

As for reference check this thread
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=110064

I tried adding a background to the scope (from the USS COD and USS PAMPANITO)
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/CaptainCox/Capture2.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/CaptainCox/Capture.jpg

But i find that it looks weird when you start turning the scope and the background turns with it...if you know what I mean.

[castorp345]

I tried adding a background to the scope ... But i find that it looks weird when you start turning the scope and the background turns with it...if you know what I mean.

'looks great, capitain!
but as far as adding a background goes, wouldn't the rubber eye attachment that the scopes seem to have been nominally fitted with preclude any sort of peripheral view like that?

[CaptainCox]

Yup I think so to. I just wanted to try it out but as I said I did not like it.

[panthercules]

Hmmm - the post a couple above that shows the attack and obs scopes raises a question - would the actual/physical size of the circular view really look bigger in the Obs scope than in the attack scope (as in the post's pictures), or would the circles be the same size and just the field of view be different because of the magnification difference? (as appears to be the case in game, essentially - I never actually measured the sizes of the two in game, but they seem to be about the same - certainly not as pronounced a difference as in the post above).

Does making the view circle area in the obs scope version in the post alter/mess up the way the ships look in the scope (e.g., do they look bigger than they should like the line markers do because the whole thing is scaled up?) or is that determined independently based on whatever magnification number you use. Put another way, in that big-circle obs scope, would you see a target ship the same size and just a lot more ocean on either side of the ship (compared to looking at the same ship at the same range in the stock game obs scope view), or would the ship look bigger so the relative proportion of the ship to the amount of see showing on either side would be the same as in the stock obs scope view?

Also, is there any way to mod the various TDC pull-outs to be smaller, so they wouldn't protrude onto the scope view? I achieved that effect by jacking up the resolution really high, but it slowed my game down a bit much unless I turned the FSAA and AF way down or off, and I like the way the game looks at 1024x768 with high FSAA and AF better.

[CaptainCox]

Wow a lot of questions...

As i never looked in a real Kollmorgen scope i can only speculate, but I would guess the real thing has now difference in size as to regards of the aperture between Attack and Observation, like you said.

But I guess the only way to "simulate" a wider angle of view would be to make the aperture bigger like I tried in the above pic. If you would try to make a "true" angle of view I guess we would have to start looking at refraction and stuff and i am not even sure that is possible. Another way would be to play with the zoom levels, now that I think is possible (seen some post here regarding that, will look) but that would not really simulate a wider angle of view...or?

The Periscope in the game is simply a graphical overlay that is independent from the outs side world, so any changes done to the scope graphics don't alter what you see "outside" in anyway, the only thing you could manipulate would be the zoom level i think. so simply, yes more ocean on each side ( i guess simulating a wider angle of view)

To resize all the pull outs is for sure modable but a lot of work as there is many many pieces involved and each would have to be sized individually and possibly moved...now that's a lot of code to change.

As I did not have time to really work on this yesterday i will start tackling it today. It could be that the Observation scope should be smaller in size like you say, I only did above example fast to see what it looked like. Also with the findings from "l3th4l" http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=516454#post516454 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=516454#post516454) I will try to make something like a "set" of Attack/Observation Scope.

[l3th4l]

if i might chime in here and offer my opinion, i prefer the scopes to be of (at least roughly) the same size and that size should be significantly larger than what we have in game right now. I think because of the limited resolution our displays offer in comparison to our eyes we should make use of as many pixels as possible while still keeping that circular look. IRL one is able to focus on very small and distant details but in the game a lot of detail is lost at a distance because of the limited resolution.
the best compromise imo would be the increase the size of the "hole" while narrowing the field of view slightly to compensate. i've measured the visible FOV with the ingame heading scale roughly and came up with about 9.4deg zoomed in and 35.4 deg zoomed out. that was using the textures i posted in Cpt. Cox thread which have a larger view.

[Kataki]

Heh eveyone likes something slightly different :P Only reason I thought the OBS and Attack scopes should be different is the OBS scope had a wider head, and since we cant simulate a different FOV (As far as I know), resizing the OBS scope is the second best option.