MoBo Update

[XLjedi]

I know at least a couple of you have tried the example I posted on another thread, and if you liked that one I think you'll really appreciate the latest build!

If you recall, couple days ago I shared the following screenshot:
http://www.xl-logic.com/SH/MoBo2.png

Above I was showing that I had a graphic engine in place that allowed me to plot contacts on the map. The new build is progressing nicely and I have some updated screenies to share to give an idea of what the new MoBo can do.

http://www.xl-logic.com/SH/MoBo3.png

Now you can see the contacts are being endowed with various information that you input mostly graphically by clicking on the various contacts and your sub and manipulating their relative positions and movement vectors.

http://www.xl-logic.com/SH/MoBo4.png

As I mentioned you are able to enter and track an infinite number of contacts. All the information you see on the above screen was entered in about 15 seconds with mouse clicks and then you double-click the contact to size the associated movement vector.

[Scoochy]

Quite interesting! All this is in game I imagine?

[XLjedi]

Quite interesting! All this is in game I imagine?

No not exactly, it's a standalone app. You play SH (or any game), press PrnScrn button and then jump over to the MoBo to use the plotting tools.

It doesn't directly interface the game. But these are actual screenshots of the application with a PrnScrn from SH4 as the background.

[AFRIKAKORPS]

Wow, looking better all the time, cant wait till you get it finished. Keep up the good work!

[jmr]

Totally awesome!

http://www.lostenterprises.com/dev/images/riders/spicoli.jpg

[darkfin]

I've been using your app and it's a great tool. I just wish i had a way to get the map to my laptop so I could run it on there, do the plotting and such while still in the sub. Any ideas?

[Bilge_Rat]

hooooohhh!!!.....:o :o :o

I WANT' gimme, gimme, gimme.....:o :o :o


er, I mean, coming along nicely, I will have to try this app out when it is ready...When will it be ready?

[Sailor Steve]

Looks good. Almost like having a real map on the table. Also not in-game, but pretty cool!:rock:

[lurker_hlb3]

is there a link to download this new moboard ????


I've used the first version and I really like it:up:

[XLjedi]

hooooohhh!!!.....:o :o :o

I WANT' gimme, gimme, gimme.....:o :o :o


er, I mean, coming along nicely, I will have to try this app out when it is ready...When will it be ready?


You'll be able to play with it Wednesday evening.

Anyone know where I should post it? I was hoping maybe I'd be allowed a sticky spot for it here in the forum or something...

[XLjedi]

I've been using your app and it's a great tool. I just wish i had a way to get the map to my laptop so I could run it on there, do the plotting and such while still in the sub. Any ideas?

You'll at least be able to specify a file as an alternative to PrnScrn so you could browse for saved in-game screen captures.

If you had a wireless network and maybe used the laptop to browse the SH folder... maybe...

[greekfire]

I've been using your app and it's a great tool. I just wish i had a way to get the map to my laptop so I could run it on there, do the plotting and such while still in the sub. Any ideas?

email the screenie to yourself or throw it on a flash drive. Your screenshots are in your silent hunter root folder as bmp files

[greekfire]

Anyone know where I should post it? I was hoping maybe I'd be allowed a sticky spot for it here in the forum or something...

aaron. Good to hear you got the final version close to finished. Your beta was quite interesting so I'm excited to get to mess around with this new version.

I have a rapidshare premium account that will keeps uploads indefinitely if you're interested. just let me know. its easy to do.

[XLjedi]

Anyone know where I should post it? I was hoping maybe I'd be allowed a sticky spot for it here in the forum or something...

aaron. Good to hear you got the final version close to finished. Your beta was quite interesting so I'm excited to get to mess around with this new version.

I have a rapidshare premium account that will keeps uploads indefinitely if you're interested. just let me know. its easy to do.

Thanks, but file hosting is not an issue.

I was just wondering if there's a more visible area here so it doesn't get buried after a few days.

[XLjedi]

I wonder if someone wouldn't mind assisting me with some data collection?

On the nav map screen there's a map scale. I need to know the maximum value on that scale for each level of magnification in SH3 and SH4.

If I could get those in both imperial and metric that would be great. Yes, I know how to convert between the two... there's a reason I specifically want the game conversion values.

[darkfin]

If you had a wireless network and maybe used the laptop to browse the SH folder... maybe...

Thanks! That's exactly what I had in mind. I'm looking forward to the update.

[XLjedi]

I wonder if someone wouldn't mind assisting me with some data collection?

On the nav map screen there's a map scale. I need to know the maximum value on that scale for each level of magnification in SH3 and SH4.

If I could get those in both imperial and metric that would be great. Yes, I know how to convert between the two... there's a reason I specifically want the game conversion values.

Never mind... I got it.

[XLjedi]

It is Wednesday evening and, as promised, the first MoBo beta is ready for testing...

Errr... at least it's Wednesday evening in my part of the world.

I posted it to the regular board thinking it might get more visibility over there. I would very much appreciate your comments, ideas, and bug reports.

Here's the link to the thread with the download:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=113223

[Warspite]

Thanks for this aaronblood. Looking forward to trying it out, but having no success in getting it started.

D/L'd it on 2 different computers (both with .NET Framework 2.0 installed), and on one computer I get an instruction to install .NET Framework, and on the other computer I get this message:-

"Cannot continue. The application is improperly formatted. Contact the application vendor for assistance."

If it helps, here is a copy of the Error Details:-

PLATFORM VERSION INFO
Windows : 5.1.2600.131072 (Win32NT)
Common Language Runtime : 2.0.50727.42
System.Deployment.dll : 2.0.50727.42 (RTM.050727-4200)
mscorwks.dll : 2.0.50727.42 (RTM.050727-4200)
dfdll.dll : 2.0.50727.42 (RTM.050727-4200)
dfshim.dll : 2.0.50727.42 (RTM.050727-4200)

ERROR SUMMARY
Below is a summary of the errors, details of these errors are listed later in the log.
* Activation of MoBo.application (file://\\MoBo.application) resulted in exception. Following failure messages were detected:
+ Exception reading manifest from MoBo.application (file://MoBo.application): the manifest may not be valid or the file could not be opened.
+ Manifest XML signature is not valid.
+ No signature was present in the subject.

COMPONENT STORE TRANSACTION FAILURE SUMMARY
No transaction error was detected.
WARNINGS
There were no warnings during this operation.
OPERATION PROGRESS STATUS
* [26/04/2007 22:36:00] : Activation of MoBo.application (file://\\MoBo.application) has started.
ERROR DETAILS
Following errors were detected during this operation.
* [26/04/2007 22:36:00] System.Deployment.Application.InvalidDeploymentExc eption (ManifestParse)
- Exception reading manifest from MoBo.application (file://MoBo.application): the manifest may not be valid or the file could not be opened.
- Source: System.Deployment
- Stack trace:
at System.Deployment.Application.ManifestReader.FromD ocument(String localPath, ManifestType manifestType, Uri sourceUri)
at System.Deployment.Application.DownloadManager.Down loadDeploymentManifestDirectBypass(SubscriptionSto re subStore, Uri& sourceUri, TempFile& tempFile, SubscriptionState& subState, IDownloadNotification notification, DownloadOptions options, ServerInformation& serverInformation)
at System.Deployment.Application.DownloadManager.Down loadDeploymentManifestBypass(SubscriptionStore subStore, Uri& sourceUri, TempFile& tempFile, SubscriptionState& subState, IDownloadNotification notification, DownloadOptions options)
at System.Deployment.Application.ApplicationActivator .PerformDeploymentActivation(Uri activationUri, Boolean isShortcut)
at System.Deployment.Application.ApplicationActivator .ActivateDeploymentWorker(Object state)
--- Inner Exception ---
System.Deployment.Application.InvalidDeploymentExc eption (SignatureValidation)
- Manifest XML signature is not valid.
- Source: System.Deployment
- Stack trace:
at System.Deployment.Application.Manifest.AssemblyMan ifest.ValidateSignature(Stream s)
at System.Deployment.Application.ManifestReader.FromD ocument(String localPath, ManifestType manifestType, Uri sourceUri)
--- Inner Exception ---
System.Security.Cryptography.CryptographicExceptio n
- No signature was present in the subject.
- Source: System.Deployment
- Stack trace:
at System.Deployment.Internal.CodeSigning.SignedCmiMa nifest.Verify(CmiManifestVerifyFlags verifyFlags)
at System.Deployment.Application.Manifest.AssemblyMan ifest.ValidateSignature(Stream s)
COMPONENT STORE TRANSACTION DETAILS
No transaction information is available.

Both computers are running Windows XP Home.

Sorry that my first response is to report an apparent problem, but I do like the look of the programme, and am keen to try it out. As the computers are networked, I am planning on running SH4 on one, and viewing on the other (as you suggested to Darkfin). That's the idea anyway, but I'll have to get it started first, and then try it out:D

Cheers
Warspite

[XLjedi]

Thanks for this aaronblood. Looking forward to trying it out, but having no success in getting it started.

D/L'd it on 2 different computers (both with .NET Framework 2.0 installed), and on one computer I get an instruction to install .NET Framework, and on the other computer I get this message:-

"Cannot continue. The application is improperly formatted. Contact the application vendor for assistance."

Both computers are running Windows XP Home.

Sorry that my first response is to report an apparent problem, but I do like the look of the programme, and am keen to try it out. As the computers are networked, I am planning on running SH4 on one, and viewing on the other (as you suggested to Darkfin). That's the idea anyway, but I'll have to get it started first, and then try it out:D

Cheers
Warspite

Well... that's what betas are for right?

The directory should include:
MoBo.application
MoBo.exe
MoBo.exe.config
MoBo.pdb
MoBo.xml
ReadMe.txt

I can only duplicate your error in one of two ways:

1) If I try to launch the application by double-clicking: "MoBo.application"

2) If I delete the "MoBo.xml " file and try to run the MoBo.exe


SO... first suggestion: Make sure you have all the above files in the same directory as the MoBo.exe, and secondly... Make sure you're launching the MoBo.exe file and not the ".application" file.

[Warspite]

Thanks aaronblood, that fixed it.

As frequently the case, it was "user error"...I must have been clicking the "application" and not the "exe".

Only excuse is that it was midnight down here, and I'd nearly finished the bottle of Red before turning in.

Now to give it a whirl.

Cheers,
Warspite

[XLjedi]

Thanks aaronblood, that fixed it.

As frequently the case, it was "user error"...I must have been clicking the "application" and not the "exe".

Only excuse is that it was midnight down here, and I'd nearly finished the bottle of Red before turning in.

Now to give it a whirl.

Cheers,
Warspite

Glad to hear it's working... A decent icon for the exe would probably have made a difference. I too find myself drawn to the one that says "application". I'll start workin up an icon.

[lurker_hlb3]

Any news on the next verison ???

[XLjedi]

Any news on the next verison ???

The next version will be the actual 1.0 release.

All of the work on the plotter engine has been completed.
It now supports...
- Map scale tools that allow precise pixel-by-pixel adjustments
- Distance Measurements (both imperial and metric)
- TSD calculations (lets you figure out speed given time/distance plot)
- Loads any type of saved bitmap image as a background
- Application Opacity Slider (you can see right thru the thing!, like looking thru a glass panel)
- Various analog compasses and gadgets
- Straight intercept plots or more complex relative position intercepts

As far as the tools go... I'm at the point where I can't think of anything else to add to it. It does everthing I could want cept launch torpedos.

I've got a little work left to do on the User Options, an icon here and there, and then (sigh... :roll: ) I have to write a manual or at least some sort of HowTo guide. The program itself will be done in a day or two, not sure how long it will take the 'team' to write the manual.

[lurker_hlb3]

Will it do true TMA, i.e. course / speed / posit based on bearing only plots ???

[XLjedi]

Will it do true TMA, i.e. course / speed / posit based on bearing only plots ???

Yes... but there's a limit to what you can do with bearing-only information.

Two requirements for using the TMA tool...
1. The bearings have to be taken at equal time intervals, although it doesn't matter what time interval you choose.
2. The sub has to be stationary.

...and of course, we're assuming the target is moving at constant speed and heading.

With the above, you can definitely determine target heading. Once you have the heading there are an infinite number of parallel line solutions for distance depending on the speed of the target. If you know the distance, you can determine speed, if you know the speed (or want to make a guess or approximation) you can determine distance.

I'd probably recommend taking at least 5 bearings at maybe 1 min intervals or more. It's an intereactive TMA ladder tool, you position it such that the rungs of the ladders are equi-distant.

If you're looking for a more advanced TMA tool that would also take into consideration relative motion of your sub... I'll have to noodle on that one a little more.

[jmr]

A user by the name of Mittelwaechter wrote up his own tutorial for doing manual TMA via hydrophone only. Here's the thread if you're interested (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=110619&highlight=mittelwaechter)

By the way, I haven't had a lot of time to play SilentHunter lately but from the little experience I had with your maneuvering board I can say I dig it a lot. Looking forward to the next version.

[lurker_hlb3]

Will it do true TMA, i.e. course / speed / posit based on bearing only plots ???
Yes... but there's a limit to what you can do with bearing-only information.

Two requirements for using the TMA tool...
1. The bearings have to be taken at equal time intervals, although it doesn't matter what time interval you choose.
2. The sub has to be stationary.

...and of course, we're assuming the target is moving at constant speed and heading.

With the above, you can definitely determine target heading. Once you have the heading there are an infinite number of parallel line solutions for distance depending on the speed of the target. If you know the distance, you can determine speed, if you know the speed (or want to make a guess or approximation) you can determine distance.

I'd probably recommend taking at least 5 bearings at maybe 1 min intervals or more. It's an intereactive TMA ladder tool, you position it such that the rungs of the ladders are equi-distant.

If you're looking for a more advanced TMA tool that would also take into consideration relative motion of your sub... I'll have to noodle on that one a little more.


thanks for the info

[XLjedi]

A user by the name of Mittelwaechter wrote up his own tutorial for doing manual TMA via hydrophone only. Here's the thread if you're interested (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=110619&highlight=mittelwaechter)

By the way, I haven't had a lot of time to play SilentHunter lately but from the little experience I had with your maneuvering board I can say I dig it a lot. Looking forward to the next version.

Thanks for the link... I will try to review it in futher detail as well as some of the other links on that thread perhaps tomorrow. I think you'll be happy to know that my TMA tool is a lot easier to use than what's presented in that thread.

I'm working on the MoBo documentation now and I can provide this snippet from the TMA intro info, keep in mind some of my deductions are theorhetical as I haven't yet play tested it, but still I think it's all fairly sound:

The TMA tool is used to determine target heading given bearings taken at equal time intervals. In its simplest usage, you can take multiple bearings over a set period of time and use those bearings to determine target heading. With the target heading, you can then pinpoint the target location if you happen to already know the speed or distance.



If you don’t know the speed or distance, you have two choices. You can take the less sophisticated approach of guesstimating; or you can use the TMA tool to predict future target bearings along the projected TMA heading. Assume for instance that you plot the bearing line of the target for 5 minutes into the future. If you know the bearing for a time in the future, you can change the position of your ship and take another bearing on the target at the same future time. The intersection of your predicted bearing and your new position bearing should pinpoint the target. You’re effectively triangulating on the target without the aid of a second ship!

If any of you have messed around at all with the TMA tools in Sub Command you should be able to pick this right up and run with it. I use a TMA line tool similar to the "ladder line" in the Sub Command TMA station. Unfortunately, we're not cruising around on a nuke sub so we have to take our bearings manually... but same basic concept: we're looking for a line such that the bearings bisect the TMA heading line into segments of equal length.

http://www.xl-logic.com/SH/MoBo_TMA.png

[jmr]

Simply awesome!

[lurker_hlb3]

:hmm: Is there an ETA on this great tool" the one that out now is great, but this looks "way" better :up:

[XLjedi]

:hmm: Is there an ETA on this great tool" the one that out now is great, but this looks "way" better :up:

Well, I'm encouraged at least that there is still some interest in the MoBo project. ...and you're right V1.0 is way better! :ping:

My original ETA was "Sometime in May", I think I'm on track to meet that goal.

Play testing has revealed a few items that I'd really like to include for release 1.0 and so I've been play testing, taking notes, tinkering, more play testing, etc...

At this point, it's not quite ready for release (I gotta couple more goodies to code) but if some of you would like a sneak peek, I might be willing to allow a few play testers to try it if you're willing to report back. I also wanted to see if I could get Neal to give it a test run too, perhaps solicit his support by way of a sticky topic, or release announcement/review, etc.

On the one hand, yes, it's better... but 'better' also means more complex. I'm afraid a manual will need to accompany the 1.0 release.

[Jace11]

drooling...

wish it could work ingame.. I only have one monitor

[XLjedi]

drooling...

wish it could work ingame.. I only have one monitor

I've added a new feature for single monitor users that you might like.

I've tested it with SH3 in windowed mode and it works just fine. There's an opacity slider that allows you to overlay MoBo on top of other running programs; you can see thru it.

[Jace11]

Thanks for allowing me to have a play with this.

I love the clean interface, the options, nodes etc. I am a complete novice when it comes to any kind of maneuvering board, but it looked very cool so I wanted to try it. On my first use, after I had calculated everything, I worked out the target speed of 1 kt, which was blatently wrong, then I realised I was working in relative motion.

Here is a screenie of me trying to calculate a contacts speed and heading from radar plots at 10 min intervals using the PPI screen mod to estimate range.

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/9579/untitled1vb4.th.jpg (http://img510.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitled1vb4.jpg)

Once I had a relative motion of 30kts, I had to transform the contact vector onto the point of my own ships vector so I could work out target true speed and course.

It worked.. 17 kts, and 258 True though the real speed was 18, only 1 knot error, but enough to cause me to miss with 2 torps!

Anyway, feedback.. and ideas..

The viewing area cannot be expanded, the window can't be dragged to be larger on my desktop (1280 x 960). I found that a bit of a hinderence at times when I needed a bit more room to work.

Maybe include a background with a nomograph on it for conversions? - though I use calculator anyway.

Lock nodes and contacts so they cant be moved accidentally?

Bug causes a crash when you change the OwnShip to a node and then do something else it happended several times but I can't remember what I did after I changed it to a node - I will try and reproduce it.

Perhaps allow keyboard input of data... with graphic can only do whole number vectors eg 17 but not 17.5

Heres an idea.. when you change units, say meters to yards, instead of just switching the unit value from 3000m to 3000y, why not do the real conversion? That could be used to solve things like nm, from m or y, so calculating speed is easier..

Anyway, its great. I really like it. Havent tried TMA yet. Will do..

[XLjedi]

Thanks for allowing me to have a play with this.

I love the clean interface, the options, nodes etc. I am a complete novice when it comes to any kind of maneuvering board, but it looked very cool so I wanted to try it. On my first use, after I had calculated everything, I worked out the target speed of 1 kt, which was blatently wrong, then I realised I was working in relative motion.

Here is a screenie of me trying to calculate a contacts speed and heading from radar plots at 10 min intervals using the PPI screen mod to estimate range.

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/9579/untitled1vb4.th.jpg (http://img510.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitled1vb4.jpg)

Once I had a relative motion of 30kts, I had to transform the contact vector onto the point of my own ships vector so I could work out target true speed and course.

It worked.. 17 kts, and 258 True though the real speed was 18, only 1 knot error, but enough to cause me to miss with 2 torps!

Anyway, feedback.. and ideas..

The viewing area cannot be expanded, the window can't be dragged to be larger on my desktop (1280 x 960). I found that a bit of a hinderence at times when I needed a bit more room to work.

Maybe include a background with a nomograph on it for conversions? - though I use calculator anyway.

Lock nodes and contacts so they cant be moved accidentally?

Bug causes a crash when you change the OwnShip to a node and then do something else it happended several times but I can't remember what I did after I changed it to a node - I will try and reproduce it.

Perhaps allow keyboard input of data... with graphic can only do whole number vectors eg 17 but not 17.5

Heres an idea.. when you change units, say meters to yards, instead of just switching the unit value from 3000m to 3000y, why not do the real conversion? That could be used to solve things like nm, from m or y, so calculating speed is easier..

Anyway, its great. I really like it. Havent tried TMA yet. Will do..

Thanks for the feedback and glad you like it.

Lot of the stuff you're asking about is addressed in the MoBo Play Tester forum at: XL-Logic.com (http://www.XL-Logic.com)

1) It appears you're not using the latest build (released Friday night).
2) You haven't quite got the hang of it yet. BUT THAT'S OK! At a glance I know it doesn't look like much but I've got a lot hiding in there.

OwnShip to node bug... I'll look into that.

Speed to the half-knot? You really think that kinda resolution is necessary? :hmm:

1280x960 res... yeah I was thinking about coding it to allow for expansion. It's just one of those "I'll get to it later kinda things..." I'll add it to my thread for "Improvement & Suggestions".

Lock Nodes - OK

Don't need a nomograph, it's got nomographs built into every line it plots! The lines are like nomos and trig calculators built into one. But if you want to display one, you can load your own background image that includes one. Once you figure out how to use MoBo you'll never bother to use it though.

When you change units on the scale the app does more than just change y to m. I can assure you, it does do all the real conversions.

Calculating speed in MoBo couldn't be much easier. All you have to do is plot two nodes, connect em with a line, set a time for each node and turn on the line TSD display. In that case it would show you the ellapsed time and solve for speed. In fact if you had the TSD display on you'd notice the app is doing more than just changing y to m when you change the scale, you'd see a differential in the speed solution as you toggle between ft-y-mi-nm-m-km.

BTW, I'd love to have a place here for play testers to post and so forth, but I don't have moderator status here and I can't manage the forum the way I need to. I'd need my own seperate forum here or the stuff just gets buried... and I gotta be able to tag things sticky and so forth. So if you don't mind please use my Play Tester forum.

Thanks

[wstaub]

Been Playtesting the beta version of MoBo and all I can say is it is a great little program once you learn to use it. Have not tried "fool" testing it though, ie things a fool would try.