Lets petition UBI for a decent patch

[leeclose]

As many of us are aware with each new patch for SH4 there seems to be more problems seem to pop up or in fact 90% most of the bugs havent been fixed. A lot of people have waited a long time for this game and paid good money for it, now were sitting with a game that well runs on the same principles as SH3 and has so many really basic bugs that should have been fixed before release. Dont even get me strated on the historical side of it:damn:

I have seen mod packs released for sh3 with less bugs than sh4 patches and in some cases a lot of the mods are dang nearly bug free so how i look at it is this if a bunch of talented ameuturs can create such fantastic work such as GWX being the case in hand and theese guys release patches for GWX that hit the spot.

In all honesty are UBI even listening to us i think we should petition them right here and now to do something about SH4 and im sure plenty of people would be more than happy to offer there services to see a game wich will be great get fixed like many i expected so much from SH4 and yet a month down the line im at the point where i wonder if the game with no patches seemed to have worked better than the 1.1 or 1.2 patch or even playing the game:shifty:

Any way people add your voice:up:

[AVGWarhawk]

As many of us are aware with each new patch for SH4 there seems to be more problems seem to pop up or in fact 90% most of the bugs havent been fixed. A lot of people have waited a long time for this game and paid good money for it, now were sitting with a game that well runs on the same principles as SH3 and has so many really basic bugs that should have been fixed before release. Dont even get me strated on the historical side of it:damn:


A patch for historical effect is probably the last on the list. Bugs, currently the patchs have addressed some bugs. From what I gather, the stopwatch needs fixing and get the radars working right(I think the radar is ok at this point but others do not) . I can not think of any glaring bugs other then these.



I have seen mod packs released for sh3 with less bugs than sh4 patches and in some cases a lot of the mods are dang nearly bug free so how i look at it is this if a bunch of talented ameuturs can create such fantastic work such as GWX being the case in hand and theese guys release patches for GWX that hit the spot.


Our modders are the best for sure. As time progresses, we will see some wonderful mods. We already are. We really just need the hardcoded bugs handled.



In all honesty are UBI even listening to us i think we should petition them right here and now to do something about SH4 and im sure plenty of people would be more than happy to offer there services to see a game wich will be great get fixed like many i expected so much from SH4 and yet a month down the line im at the point where i wonder if the game with no patches seemed to have worked better than the 1.1 or 1.2 patch or even playing the game:shifty:

Any way people add your voice:up:


UBI is listening. I can see it in the vanilla version. Campaigns, options, etc. that we all voiced before the release. They have corrected some bugs that we have voiced. The game does work better after the first two patches. More options added like vol fog check box and resolution fixes, AA. We can not forget these little ditties they patched.

In all honesty, what we need is a concrete list of repairs that are needed. My feeling is we will get one more patch and a list of top fix assembled and sent off to UBI.

My voice added:up:

[CaptainHaplo]

Well if you want a list - here is a start

BUGS

Savegame - doesnt always work - only seems to be a sure bet if you save surfaced and from the map screen. The rest of the time you can introduce corruption. If its gotta stay this way, we need to be told. There would be complaints - but at least we would KNOW!

Savegame - damage reapplied on occasion - either to sub or to crew. Doing this just because of a reload? Needs attention.

Radar/Sonar - in 1.02 the SD now is totally broke. Yes there are mods on the way to fix it - but time spent fixing things like this is time modders could use working on stuff like historical accuracy. Same thing with Sonar - sounds are still 180 degrees out of phase.

Campaign retirement bug - yes they designed a forced retirement in. I would prefer an option to enable or disable that - but as its forced now - if you are offered a gato class you get one patrol - then are told your sub class and you are being retired for lack of performance. Retiring a successful skipper in a brand new sub? Supposedly its an error in a file somewhere and modders are working on it - but again - an official fix would be nice. Especially offering the OPTION of enabling forced retirement.

Chronometer - doesnt work as advertised. Alot of people want it working. I dont care about it (would rather they take the one off the map screen personally) - but its a bug and should be fixed.

Torpedo type setting - in 1.02 the contact/contact + influence is swapped - if you set it for contact - its actually set for influence and vice versa. Was fine in 1.01 so hopefully it shouldnt be hard to correct.

Graphical issues - there seems to be a laundry list of (mostly minor) graphical abberations. Since to me the graphix were fine out of the box - I dont have a complete list - but perhaps those who put an emphasis on this aspect can post a list.

These are bugs - things that are reproducable under specific circumstances that are "advertised" but do not function as represented.

Next items are tweaks - things that SHOULD be dealt with - not "bugs" per se but glaring issues with gameplay that ruin the environment for some or all.

Warship AI - while I understand some randomizaton for escorts and heavy warships - some of these guys are TOO stupid to be in any nation's navy at any period in history. Maybe get rid of the "totally clueless so I will just sit here and pick my nose while a sub sits on the surface 3000 yards away and shoots my convoy to pieces with his deck gun" destroyer? Some destroyers are downright nasty - others I am amazed they can sail in a straight line! Heck - I surfaced the northern port of "tokyo bay" in daylight and shot a subchaser to shreds - and he never fired a shot back - though his gun crew did at least point the forward battery in my general direction. If they drop the lowest level of AI IQ for these guys maybe that will be enough? NOTE - Capital warships do not seem to suffer from this problem......

Merchant Convoy AI - hitting one target and slowing him to a crawl doesnt mean everyone else has to set speed to 1 or 2 knots and start circling to ang around for me to sink them too! If anything - the convoy should scatter to reform later - but thats probably too hard to setup - so at least make em all go to high speed for a bit and then reform - even if they move in the same direction! SH3 did that at least and it was more realistic that what we see now.

Aircraft AI - in 1.01 the zoomies seem to know exactly where you are - in 1.02 unless your surfaced and they fly nearly directly over you they dont see you. I dont mind a single airstrike called to my location if I am spotted - but I have dived and moved away and the planes still know where I went? Then when the fly over me half the time they dont see me? Something odd here. Allow a single airstrike to a location - more if an attack by the planes are made - but dont allow em spy satellites to know what direction I went when I submerged and how far I got! Instead of just spawning patrols to where I am at - they need to do like SH3 and set patrols and if one happens to catch us then so be it - but not spawn one directly at me without me being spotted - which happens.

The last issue isnt so much a tweak as it is a request for information. We really need a better explanation of how the Damage model - and Damage Control works.
I know some are going to say damage is fubar'd - but I dont think it is - I think we really just dont understand how its working. It may still require a bit of work by the devs if anyone can confirm issues like a continued inability to repair their guns or something - but otherwise I think info will do.

Good Hunting!
Captain Haplo

[mookiemookie]

Well if you want a list - here is a start...

...Good Hunting!
Captain Haplo
I couldn't have put it better myself and I agree with every one of your points. The convoy and destroyer AI is what does it for me. It pulls me out of the sim when it's like a "Super Happy Funtime Deck Gun Shooting Gallery". Let's hope these things get addressed in a 1.3 patch.

[AVGWarhawk]

@Capthap

Nice start. Lets keep it brief in description. Once we have a pretty good list we can condense to the top bugs needing attention.

[cappy70]

Just a remark,,,,

I remember in SH3, before modding and patches, there was this glitch that when you re-loaded a save the sub moved and you got damage to either crew or tha boat itself.

[Lt commander lare]

the only bug i see that must be fixed is an absolute must for this game to survive in the open market is the damage control when you have no damage at all and you dive to periscope depth and you just sink stern first all the way to the bottom well thats just plain unexceptable in my book this is an emergency patch for this issue
but everything else is good no other problems

lt commander lare

[hellas1]

Hello sub pimps and pimpettes.......... :|\\

I shall be brief in my desire to express a 1.3 patch being distributed asap,
Here is my answer:
:rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock:

adieu, hellas1 :|\\

[SUBMAN1]

Chonograph speed needs help for manual TDC. That is my biggest complaint so far.

I feel stupid for buying SHIV. They did crap like this to us in SH3 and never fully fixed it. Now I feel deja vu all over again.

Amazing how game companies can make a bug free game for consoles, yet when it comes PC, they rush it out the door long before completion with the mindset tha they can make money on it now and patch it later. Problem is, UBISoft never finishes patching it! I think I want my money back.

-S

[DragonRR1]

A quick list of my own issues mixed with issues from other threads.


1) Just crossed the international date line from Pearl to Japan. Attack screen bug still happens. No Torpedo tracking once you cross the line.

2) Radar still doesn't work when heading South 90deg to 270deg.

3) I noticed a minor rendering issue with 1.2: Seems the UZO view doesn´t scale to the resolution when not using 1024x768. There is a little part on top showing the scene behind the screen in 1280x1024. The bearing display is wrong, too.

4) Ship dimensions are still faulty = incorrect firing data (range) for TDC for some ships.

5) The stuttering is back it seems? May not be a bug.

6) After installing the new patch the DD's never use their searchlights anymore!
Thats too bad! It mase a exciting touch to night attacks!

7) Just encountered a CTD while surfacing and lowering the attack periscope at the same time.

8) chronometer still not work. button still missing like wheater, rank, how long distanst in this speed, id target.

9) seems to be a weird white outline along the hull of the sub when looking down through the external camera. Very noticeable on railings if sub when partially submerged.

10) Sun shines still through objects, now even with full intensity.

11) If volumetric fog is enabled the deck crew still appears transparent after some minutes. See also (31.)

12) AA gun repair bug still there.

13) numpad del no longer works.

14) Dive planes dont even come down anymore after a few dives and surfaces.

15) Still getting CTD errors while in navmap during campaign (not mentioned by everyone)

16) I've got a merchant here; that I put a torpedo into, stopping it's engines, but it still continues on at about 4 knts, despite a heavy list to Starboard.

17) Sounds are still coming from a 180 degree wrong direction. Situation awareness suffers when submerged and evading escorts.

18) Dive planes are still horribly broken, everytime without fail around halfway through a patrol the Bow planes will look inverted and refuse to even move like they should.

19) Can someone confirm if the SD radar is indeed fixed? As far as I can tell it is still detecting ships but now it does not detect aircraft at all. I just got bombed by a couple flying boats while I sat there watching the SD radar in different ranges and they did not show up at all.

20) Hydrophones still do not work at periscope depth.

21) Sound bugs still present with "Realistic Sound Travel" enabled (e.g., popping sounds when firing AA guns, explosion sounds cut off, slight delay in deck gun sound, etc.

22) We now have approx a 9.7X Magnification attack scope. (Should be 6X)

23) Convoy AI needs tweaking, too often ships all come to a stop and muddle around.

24) Neat mechanical ticking sound when using the TDC is gone :( Bring it back.

25) being able to open multiple outer doors and having the sound effect play

26) making the TDC speed function bring up a "magic watch" to give the casual player an estimated speed of target

27) Widescreen users get a cropped rather than expanded image. TBT & periscope scaling bitmap masks appear to be inaccurate.

28) External viewable damage to subs vanishes on a savegame load.

29) The deck gun doesn't repair.

30) There is no obvious visual way to ascertain true damage to the sub.

31) The ghost crew issue - crew are slightly transparent all the time with full settings and like ghosts in fog. The conning tower is transparent or semi transparent when using the periscope.

32) Anonmalies with torpedo damage... may be a "feature". Example 8 torpedos + deck gun shots sink a merchant, 5 deck gun shots or less to destroy a destroyer.

33) CHRONOMETER.

34) Message log delay problem.

35) The sub not responding to waves correctly epecially in rough seas. The wake behind the sub, especially in rough seas, floats above the waves.

36) Possible problem with torpedo detonation choices. Some users report they are reversed. Also the detontation type chosen resets.

EDIT:
We need a heavily moderated (so that only bugs are listed) sticky really. There a bugs spread through so many threads. There needs to be input from good modders on what they can fix and what must be fixed by the DEVS.

We need a patch plan from UBI so that we know how long we have or in other words when UBI will pull the devs off patching...

[shawnyp420]

Yup. Doesn't it feel like they released an open beta for $50 a whack?? They are really getting some good work out of us beta testers/customers. I haven't been able to play the game since the day I bought it. Tried 1.2...and it's back on the shelf. GOOOO MODDERS!!!!!

[CCIP]

17) Sounds are still coming from a 180 degree wrong direction. Situation awareness suffers when submerged and evading escorts.
Are you sure about this one?

I always assumed that the helm was simply facing rearward in the sub, though your explanation might make sense to. Hasn't bothered me, though, since that's how I thought of it.

[leeclose]

Yup. Doesn't it feel like they released an open beta for $50 a whack?? They are really getting some good work out of us beta testers/customers. I haven't been able to play the game since the day I bought it. Tried 1.2...and it's back on the shelf. GOOOO MODDERS!!!!! Shawn mate thats how i feel hence why i started this thread hopefull ubi will pull there digit outa there orifice soonish. Also the suggestion about a emergency patch i think thats a great idea as well:up:

[DirtyHarry3033]

I shouldn't even say this but I will. Let's don't petition UBI for a decent patch, let's give the devs time to make a decent patch!

Maybe it's our fault, the state of 1.2??? There have been so many people in the community screaming "I WANT A PATCH, AND I WANT IT YESTERDAY!!!!", well maybe UBI heard the community and gave us what we were demanding, a patch as close to "yesterday" as possible. Rushed out the door to satisfy our insatiable demand, and naturally chock full of new bugs.

I bet if we had been willing to wait 2 or 3 months, instead of 2 or 3 weeks it would have been a much better patch. One we could be a lot happier with.

I write code for a living, been doing it 20 years now. I know how much harder it is to write clean, relatively "bug-free" code when you've got angry users breathing down your neck and crawling up your *ss and demanding results NOW, than when they let you alone and give you the time to do the job right.

There'll be another patch, I'm sure. Let's give the devs the time to do it right ;)

Sorry if I'm out of line here.

DH

[leeclose]

DH some good points but sh4 pretty much uses the sh3 engine so how can you frak up an existing piece of software i think the worst part is we all know if ubi had said were not going to be releasing sh4 till say august 07 to work out all the kinks i think we could have all wore that one. The thing is the have paid beta testers what i want to know is how the hell did the miss all the frak ups? Plus they have a excellent community of modders and beta testers and reserachers here at subsim why dont they just plain ask for our help im sure many would be happy to help.

[AVGWarhawk]

@Dragon

Excellent list mate and too the point!!!!!!! We have a wide varity of fixes on your list. Now, if UBI were to say we can fix five of the bugs on the list what would these be?

Some of your bugs I do not have:

number del . key works for me
Dive planes no issue
Save game damage disappears....same in SH3 if I recall correctly, they never reappear after a save.

On your list these are my top fixes:
chronometer
multiply doors open
Fix the damage model and provide better damage assessment screen.
Better/smarter AI sensors

Some of the others do not affect my game play or pertain to higher res that I do not use. All in all a good list. It is lists like this that help developers get you what you want. Some of your CTD might be your computer. With exception of the "A" key CTD I know of no other key of key combination that will assure a CTD. I have had 1 CTD with 1.2. A defrag and internet junk clean up and none since.

[leeclose]

I would go with those as well Hawk, i think a way of doing the patches is doing small ones but lots of them ie fixing 5 problems at a time till the tick list so to speak is done and dusted so instead of waiting weeks or months for one massive 300 meg patch you get lots of little ones at say 20 ish meg.

[DirtyHarry3033]

DH some good points but sh4 pretty much uses the sh3 engine so how can you frak up an existing piece of software i think the worst part is we all know if ubi had said were not going to be releasing sh4 till say august 07 to work out all the kinks i think we could have all wore that one. The thing is the have paid beta testers what i want to know is how the hell did the miss all the frak ups? Plus they have a excellent community of modders and beta testers and reserachers here at subsim why dont they just plain ask for our help im sure many would be happy to help.
Who knows who UBI got for beta testers? Read a report on a review here a few days ago, a review done by a cable TV channel. (G4TV I think?) Anyway the reviewer was major pissed off at it, crusing around on the surface trying to take on convoys with the deck gun and complaining about how poorly the sub handled. Laughable, he obviously didn't know his *ss from a hole in the ground when it comes to sub-simming.

My point is, how do we know UBI didn't enlist similarly-incompetent beta testers? I don't know who they got, maybe 9-year olds that never heard of WW2 and are impressed by anything that explodes, but if they'd come here I'm sure they'd have gotten much better input that could have made a difference.

As far as SH4 being built on SH3 engine, sure that's a big time-saver. As a programmer I'm often assigned to write a new program that's similar to an older one, but far more full-featured and complex. I've often started out by basing the new program on the older one. And sometimes it works. But I've also found it can lead to dirty, inefficient code, and bugs that have you tearing your hair out trying to track 'em down. All depends on how high you're raising the bar. Frequently I've found it better just to start from scratch.

DH

[richoahu]

well, thank you all for putting those lists together.

however i am glad the game is available and i have been having a blast playing it. i put SH3 on the self a long time ago as it got "boring", now with SH4 out i am enjoing the type of game again and am glad they didn't wait longer. the game is totaly playable

/shrug

[leeclose]

Its good to see people putting down there thoughts. Also i have to agree SH4 is a playable game but it has its problems. Harry i know what you mean about using existing code ive heard of this prob before. I think the thing that annoys me as a retired submariner i can really see the potential in SH4 then another glitch comes along. Like you said christ knows who was betaing it or even doing it right. As to reviews ive seen a few really stupid ones in the UK to some one really needs to point out there submarines not bloody cruisers or DD's. Fair enough we have created the uber boot for sh3 but thats a pure a fun factor thing to exepct a sub of any type to do it stock theese guys are taking drugs or need some sleep:yep:

[Hartmann]

A good point of reference for a new patch could be if the devs use sh3 with GWX or nygm and see what is a good submarine game.

is difficult understand how they can make a buggy game using the code of sh3 and making too many mistakes.:doh:

I suspect about a lot of time expended with the graphic engine and other gameplay factors abandoned by lack of time.

[AVGWarhawk]

I would go with those as well Hawk, i think a way of doing the patches is doing small ones but lots of them ie fixing 5 problems at a time till the tick list so to speak is done and dusted so instead of waiting weeks or months for one massive 300 meg patch you get lots of little ones at say 20 ish meg.

To this point of yours I agree whole heartedly. As I understand it, one change here in this file screws up another file over there. Taking a few on at a time and assuring the desired results are obtained is the best way to go. Nothing worse than a patch clearing up a bug but introducing another bug. I can't say any new bugs were introduced with 1.2. My game plays better then ever and I got some nice fixes.

[AVGWarhawk]

well, thank you all for putting those lists together.

however i am glad the game is available and i have been having a blast playing it. i put SH3 on the self a long time ago as it got "boring", now with SH4 out i am enjoing the type of game again and am glad they didn't wait longer. the game is totaly playable

/shrug

Yes, the game is totally playable. I really do not have major issues with any of it. On the same token, some simple principles of the submarine do need a fix, ie. chronometer, open all tubes. These things that make a sub a sub!

[DirtyHarry3033]

Yes, the game is totally playable. I really do not have major issues with any of it. On the same token, some simple principles of the submarine do need a fix, ie. chronometer, open all tubes. These things that make a sub a sub!

Warhawk, you know there's a fix over in the mods forum to have all tubes open at the same time, right? Very simple change to Commands.cfg and works flawlessly as far as I can tell. Has made a major difference for me, firing off a quick salvo! "Fire One! Fire Two! Fire Three!" and no more waiting 10 seconds for doors to open after each shot :up:

Chronometer I'd definitely like to see fixed. Also the IDL/torpedo track problem on the attack map. Hopefully in 1.3 - but I'm prepared to wait a while if that's what it takes to do it right...

All in all, I'm loving SH4 despite the shortcomings. And expecting that in a year, after all the patches and work by the mods, we'll have a kick-*ss sim that will make GWX look so-so.

[leeclose]

Some intresting points harry but the way most gamers think is why pay 50 bucks upwards for a game thats going to take a year or more to fix. Back in the day you could install silent service 1 or 2 and of you went no patches same with elite i mean 17 years down the line and yes we have much better technology but the software side of it has went to hell in a handbag:yep:

[DirtyHarry3033]

Some intresting points harry but the way most gamers think is why pay 50 bucks upwards for a game thats going to take a year or more to fix. Back in the day you could install silent service 1 or 2 and of you went no patches same with elite i mean 17 years down the line and yes we have much better technology but the software side of it has went to hell in a handbag:yep:
Everything you say is true. SS2 was a fantastic game, I cut my sub-sim teeth on that one and have lusted after WW2 sub combat in the Pacific for many years on account of that game.

But let's look at the difference between SS2 and SH4. SS2 shipped on (excuse me, I forget the exact number, been too many years) somewhere between 1 and 5 DS-DD 3.25" floppy disks at under 1 meg each. The entire game was certainly well under 5 megs if even that large. When it came out I had a 100 meg HD which was of respectable size at the time. Most of the PC's at my office were still using 10 or 20 meg drives back then.

SH4 however, ships on a DVD weighing in at 3.83 GIGABYTES... Just a little bit larger, don't you think? (a tiny bit larger ;)) And a little bit more complex. You ask me, it's a miracle that something that big and complex can work at all.

About patches for SS2, how would they be distributed? The internet was in it's infancy back then and if you had a connection at all you were doing good. If you had a 1200 baud connection you rocked! Either way, you paid out the *ss for it, I was paying $6/hr for non-prime connect over a 1200 baud dialup connection. And I remember worrying myself sick over whether I could afford to d/l that 100k byte file I wanted.

About paying $50 for a game in 2007, well I was paying $50 for games in 1985 that were nowhere near as engrossing as SH4. According to the "Inflation Calculator" at http://www.westegg.com/inflation/ well that $50 I spent in 1985 would cost me nearly $94 today!

To sum it up, I'm not so sure that it's a case of the "software going to hell in a handbag", more than it is a case of the user's expectations, and the hardware's ability growing faster than the software technology can keep up.

DH

[Monica Lewinsky]

well, thank you all for putting those lists together.

however i am glad the game is available and i have been having a blast playing it.Me too! Kinda getting fed up of the bitchers and moaners - too bad they have a larger audience. Applied patch 1.2 ... never had a CTD since and having great fun! I don't mind that it is not TOTALLY perfect sub-sim. That's what counts. >>> I <<< enjoy it. Playing it for hours on end with enjoyment.

Someone or some people need to put the "bitchers" in check, SOON! Getting fed up with them. :(

[leeclose]

I think one of the big probs now Harry is the suits run the gaming business but back in the day the gamers ran it but times change oh and SS2 was released in 1990, 17 years ago.
Oh and monica this isnt a bitching thread this is a thread to let ubi know yes there is problems and yes we would like them fixed. On average 8 out of 10 sh4 players are expierencing problems to a major or minor degree, wouldnt you think that ubi have reason to fix the problems.
I am not going to bitch about SH4 its going to shape up to be a brilliant game once all those little nags are fixed and a lot of the bugs well its almost like there are dozens of of small bugs but no massive major bug and thats what can be annoying. All i'm asking is if you have something positive to be seen and by ubi to help get the game fixed the way sh3 was say it instead of atacking people who are having valid and ongoing problems with SH4:up:

[DragonRR1]

@Dragon

Excellent list mate and too the point!!!!!!! We have a wide varity of fixes on your list. Now, if UBI were to say we can fix five of the bugs on the list what would these be?

Some of your bugs I do not have:

number del . key works for me
Dive planes no issue
Save game damage disappears....same in SH3 if I recall correctly, they never reappear after a save.

On your list these are my top fixes:
chronometer
multiply doors open
Fix the damage model and provide better damage assessment screen.
Better/smarter AI sensors

Some of the others do not affect my game play or pertain to higher res that I do not use. All in all a good list. It is lists like this that help developers get you what you want. Some of your CTD might be your computer. With exception of the "A" key CTD I know of no other key of key combination that will assure a CTD. I have had 1 CTD with 1.2. A defrag and internet junk clean up and none since.

Well as I mentioned they are bugs of copied from other threads. Actually I haven't had a single CTD whilst using patch 1.2.. only 4 patrols tho...

I don't really want to repeat myself but!

There are some many bugs spread all over the place in both this forum and over at UBI. We need a central point to collate the bugs so that we can all agree on which bugs are critical, which bugs can be fixed by modders, which bugs are seen by everyone. UBI moderators have stickied a bug report website http://www.sh4bugs.com which seems out of date (I couldn't actually get on it yesterday either.

My point is that we need to know what UBI intend to do with SH4 and we need to know where to put all the bugs so that the devs don't have to wade through thread after thread..... I suggested a NEW heavily moderated sticky earlier.. What do the moderators think about that?

[SteamWake]

Please add that the spread angle cannot be set on a per tube basis.

Once you change it it stays the same as you switch tubes requiring a last second adjustment.

I want to have my salvo set up and ready to launch.

[DirtyHarry3033]

Lee you're right about the suits, they rule our modern world. It just took them a while to realise that mere "video games" could be a source of $$$ that they could stuff into their pockets.

But I guess without 'em, we woudn't have many games at all to play. The technology has grown too fast for even the dedicated (much less casual) gamer to code games for us. GWX is a work of art, but if the suits at UBI hadn't said "Let There Be SH3", would we have anything like GWX today? Don't think so...

It's a shame when a potential work of art can only be fathered by suits that don't know the difference between a DD and a DC and a CV. People who don't have a clue what it's about, all they want is to stuff the $$$ into their pockets as fast as they can.

But at least they DID do it, they DID order the devs to make SH4 and so at least a rough canvas has been laid out. With a few more patches and the work of the modders (you guys rule!) there may yet be a work of art to be found in SH4!

Yep, I know that SS2 was out in 1990, I bought it the day it was released! My point was, things were so much simpler then. Imagine going back in time to 1990 and telling the lead dev on the SS2 team, "I need you to come up with a nice tight routine to generate volumetric fog... While you're at it, I also want transparent water!" Well, he'd look at you like you'd lost your mind. Back then most of the code went into generating the relatively simple physics of the sim world, today, most of the code goes into generating the eye-candy.

OK, I better shut up now - said too much, had a few too many pints :rotfl:I would just say in closing, let's don't demand a patch - we've done that and look what we got. Let's be patient and give devs/UBI time. We got up to what, 1.4b in SH3? So hopefully we've got a few more coming for SH4, and the modders can take it from there!

[leeclose]

Well its offical harry were a pair of old farts. Regarding patch/s they should release smaller patches aiming at the worst bugs working to the lighter bugs later that way we can see how effective each one is making it a quicker proccess to fix and not a massive download and having to wait months for one fix all patch imho easy way do lots of little ones in a nice steady stream:up:

[DirtyHarry3033]

Please add that the spread angle cannot be set on a per tube basis.

Once you change it it stays the same as you switch tubes requiring a last second adjustment.

I want to have my salvo set up and ready to launch.
Yep that one drives me batsh*t! I get tired of being faced with the choice of firing a longitudinal spread, or going thru all the "clickety-click" bs after each launch to get the solution I really want.

I've also noticed that if I set up "Contact" for the fuse setting, after a while it reverts back to "Contact/Influence". I'd love to be able to set up each tube as I want with respect to depth, speed, spread, detonator and have it keep those settings!

DH

[Monica Lewinsky]

Oh and monica this isnt a bitching thread this is a thread to let ubi know yes there is problems and yes we would like them fixed. On average 8 out of 10 sh4 players are expierencing problems to a major or minor degree, wouldnt you think that ubi have reason to fix the problems.

All i'm asking is if you have something positive to be seen and by ubi to help get the game fixed the way sh3 was say it instead of atacking people who are having valid and ongoing problems with SH4:up:

No intent of being negative to you or any other nice folks here.

Just frustrated with SO MANY negative posts elsewhere here about the game.

Sorry dude. Was not attacking you or others that share the same view point.

My apologies, sir.

[DragonRR1]

Bug list v2

1) Just crossed the international date line from Pearl to Japan. Attack screen bug still happens. No Torpedo tracking once you cross the line.

2) Radar still doesn't work when heading South 90deg to 270deg. Possible mod fix for this issue.

3) I noticed a minor rendering issue with 1.2: Seems the UZO view doesn´t scale to the resolution when not using 1024x768. There is a little part on top showing the scene behind the screen in 1280x1024. The bearing display is wrong, too.

4) Ship dimensions are still faulty = incorrect firing data (range) for TDC for some ships.

5) The stuttering is back it seems? May not be a bug.

6) Patch 1.2, After installing the new patch the DD's don’t use their searchlights anymore!

7) Unconfirmed: Just encountered a CTD while surfacing and lowering the attack periscope at the same time.

8) Chronometer still doesn’t work.

9) White outline along the hull of the sub when looking down through the external camera. Very noticeable on railings if sub is submerged to conning tower.

10) Sun shines still through objects, now even with full intensity.

11) If volumetric fog is enabled the deck crew still appears transparent after some minutes. See also (31.)

12) AA gun repair bug still there – AA gun doesn’t repair. Dragon – I haven’t had this issue.. anyone else?

13) Numpad del no longer works. Warhawk comments that this does work for him… anyone else?

14) Dive planes don’t even come down anymore after a few dives and surfaces.

15) Still getting CTD errors while in navmap during campaign (not mentioned by everyone)

16) I've got a merchant here; that I put a torpedo into, stopping it's engines, but it still continues on at about 4 knts, despite a heavy list to Starboard.

17) Sounds are still coming from a 180 degree wrong direction. Situation awareness suffers when submerged and evading escorts.

18) Dive planes are still horribly broken, everytime without fail around halfway through a patrol the Bow planes will look inverted and refuse to even move like they should. Anyone else have this issue?

19) Can someone confirm if the SD radar is indeed fixed? As far as I can tell it is still detecting ships but now it does not detect aircraft at all. I just got bombed by a couple flying boats while I sat there watching the SD radar in different ranges and they did not show up at all.

20) Hydrophones still do not work at periscope depth.

21) Sound bugs still present with "Realistic Sound Travel" enabled (e.g., popping sounds when firing AA guns, explosion sounds cut off, slight delay in deck gun sound, etc.

22) We now have approx a 9.7X Magnification attack scope. (Should be 6X)

23) All AI needs tweaking, too often ships all come to a stop and muddle around. Destroyers seem somewhat uninterested..

24) Neat mechanical ticking sound when using the TDC is gone http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/cid:image001.gif@01C78480.75076E10Bring it back.

25) being able to open multiple outer doors and having the sound effect play

26) making the TDC speed function bring up a "magic watch" to give the casual player an estimated speed of target

27) Widescreen users get a cropped rather than expanded image. TBT & periscope scaling bitmap masks appear to be inaccurate.

28) External viewable damage to subs vanishes on a savegame load.

29) The deck gun doesn't repair.

30) There is no obvious visual way to ascertain true damage to the sub.

31) The ghost crew issue - crew are slightly transparent all the time with full settings and like ghosts in fog. The conning tower is transparent or semi transparent when using the periscope.

32) Anonmalies with torpedo damage... may be a "feature". Example 8 torpedos + deck gun shots sink a merchant, 5 deck gun shots or less to destroy a destroyer.

33) Buttons still missing like weather, rank, how long distance at this speed, id target.

34) Message log delay problem. There are workaround mod fixes for this.

35) The sub not responding to waves correctly especially in rough seas. The wake behind the sub, especially in rough seas, floats above the waves.

36) Possible problem with torpedo detonation choices. Some users report they are reversed. Also the detonation type chosen resets.

37) Fix open all tube doors. There is a mod which does fix his issue however.

38) Fix the radar and sonar – There may be a mod fix for this.. I haven’t tried it yet.

39) Campaign retirement – feature or bug?

40) Aircraft.. the skies are full of them! There are some mod fixes for this.

41) Aircraft flight model – Collide with mountains rather easily and there is a tendancy for them to swoop rather low during attack runs.

[Monica Lewinsky]

See what I mean? DragonRR1 posted his manisfesto. Useless crap - tired of these useless posts by folks like that. Could you imagine someone like that publishing a book? Who would bother to read it?

Get's us nowhere DragonRR1.

<Edit: Really bad taste, man>

[leeclose]

None taken monica i know what you mean i'm intending this thread to be a way of postivly doing something about the problem instead of whining about it we know its there so time to speak up and let ubi know were slightly annoyed:rotfl: and letting them know whats wrong wont hurt non either also dragon thats a pretty good list i think ive expierenced about 30 outa the 40 plus you have. Any way heres hoping ubi sit up and pay attention so we can get this fine game back on track. Also dragon stick a copy of this on the 1.2 bug thread as well please

[DragonRR1]

See what I mean? DragonRR1 posted his manisfesto. Useless crap - tired of these useless posts by folks like that. Get's us nowhere to have a nice game.

With all due respect. I am not whining here. These are bugs listed by a number of forum posters. Some of them may be spurious but most of them are issues which ideally need fixing. If you are happy with the game as is.. fine. If you don't want to read about the bugs people are experiencing ... well don't bloody well read threads complaining about bugs or read threads titled.. "Lets petition UBI for a decent patch"

Dragon

[Monica Lewinsky]

None taken monica i know what you mean i'm intending this thread to be a way of postivly doing something about the problem instead of whining about itThank you! Some people do not understand good managers or good mangement. Pour out all the negative stuff and hash it out. And get the negative stuff on the table where EVERYONE can see the bad points. And work on the easy ones FIRST to give ALL a sense of accomplishment of solving the problem. Most importantly after you shoot your mouth off, suggest a fix. Be a member of the solution, not the bitch complaining about it.

But... most importantly ALWAYS end on a positive note! Did! not see/read that - nor ANY solutions like try this MOD to fix this shortcoming, etc.. And there is more negative vibes in the works I suspect.

Live long and prosper, Dragon.

[DirtyHarry3033]

Well its offical harry were a pair of old farts. Regarding patch/s they should release smaller patches aiming at the worst bugs working to the lighter bugs later that way we can see how effective each one is making it a quicker proccess to fix and not a massive download and having to wait months for one fix all patch imho easy way do lots of little ones in a nice steady stream:up:
Well I don't know about you, my friend, but I'm such a dried-up old fart that when I break wind I have get out the Hoover to vacuum the dust out of my shorts!

We'll see what happens with future patches, one way or the other, for better or worse. I agree with you, fix the worst first. I just worry that the suits see the insistant demands on the various forums for a patch, and they tell the devs, "Get it out!!! FAST!!!! Make it FLASHY!!!! Don't worry about CONTENT, just make it LOOK good!!!!" And soon the patch resources are expended...

Lord I'd hate to see that happen... this sim has got so much potential!

DH

[DirtyHarry3033]

Already edited

Monica, that was in extremely bad taste. 'Nuff said.

DH

[DragonRR1]

None taken monica i know what you mean i'm intending this thread to be a way of postivly doing something about the problem instead of whining about itThank you! Some people do not understand good managers or good mangement. Pour out all the negative stuff and hash it out. And get the negative stuff on the table where EVERYONE can see the bad points. And work on the easy ones FIRST to give ALL a sense of accomplishment. Most importantly after you shoot your mouth off, suggest a fix. Be a memeber of the solution, not the bitch complaining.

But... most importantly ALWAYS end on a positive note! Did! not see/read that - nor ANY solutions like try this MOD to fix this shortcoming, etc.. And there is more negative vibes in the works I suspect.

Live long and prosper, Dragon.
Ah it's always good to see such pleasant and wise advice coming from someone who.. not long ago posted this (as a closing statement I might add):

"I have Two words for UBISoft, and it's not Happy Birthday or Merry Christmas."

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=468279#post468279

[Monica Lewinsky]

Sorry, one two many beers. My Apologies. Won't do it again.

Was wishing to see some positive news about SH-4 and went too far. Regrets :(

[macky]

edited
I think this comment alone is very offensive. I come from the UK but to make a crack out of a tragedy like this is not just poor taste but incomprehensible. You ought to be ashamed of yourself!

OT, nice to see a concise list of bugs without the whines. I too would like the next patch to be good, but have to say 1.2 was needed and, for the most part, very effective. I also note that the tone of the posts in this forum are settling down to only a few whines and a lot more positive people out there, I think patch 1.2 provided that:up:

edit - noticed you apologised monica...fair enough, we all make mistakes.

[Monica Lewinsky]

[quote=Monica Lewinsky]edit - noticed you apologised monica...fair enough, we all make mistakes.thank you sir, was just frustrated and angered by 41 comments of what is wrong now with 1.2 and lost control. Won't happen again. so tired of people complaining about the game. I am having lots of fun with it using 1.2 patch. Wanted to put a postive spin on still a BAD situation (1.2 patch).

Sorry ... :(

[DirtyHarry3033]

Sorry, one two many beers. My Apologies. Won't do it again.

Was wishing to see some positive news about SH-4 and went too far. Regrets :(
OK, apology accepted. I know about "too many" beers, I have "too many" every night.

But that crack was over the line. So far over, I bet you couldn't even see the line from where you were.

Virginia Tech is practically in my back yard, less than an hour's drive. It would be a hurtful thing no matter where I lived on this earth but since they were my "next-door" neighbors in this global community it is especially hurtful.

I'll shut up now. But you might want to watch that link you posted earlier,

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting.php

and ask yourself "does this comment contribute to the community" before posting.

[Grunt]

So putting out a bug ridden and virtually unplayable rip off of a game us "contributing to the community"?

The hypocrisy around here is spectacular! :damn:

[AVGWarhawk]

[quote=Monica Lewinsky]See what I mean? DragonRR1 posted his manisfesto. Useless crap - tired of these useless posts by folks like that. Could you imagine someone like that publishing a book? Who would bother to read it?

Get's us nowhere DragonRR1.

Edit [quote]


Please refrain from comments such as this. Not only inflammatory but incensative.

[Monica Lewinsky]

[quote=Monica Lewinsky]Please refrain from comments such as this. Not only inflammatory but incensative.I offered apologies. You must have missed it.

Again, regrets. You seem to be unforgiving [and blind].

My Apologies to all that read this and my bad comments. Sorry :)

Did i say it right this time?

The hypocrisy around here is spectacular! :damn:
One smart dude. Just ONE smart dude. Well said.

note to self:
Enough ... no comments, or posts for a week. Tired of all the NEGATIVE people here. There seems to be SO MANY negative people here. Positive people seem to make no posts or they are rare to stick out their neck because of b.s like this.

[Monica Lewinsky]

But that crack was over the line. So far over, I bet you couldn't even see the line from where you were.You know what? You are RIGHT!

Sorry dude, reflecting, you are so right. my apologies to this SubSim Community.

So I am looking at the site, researching's articles, minding my own business and the s.o.b. in PM's reports me to the Moderators for being "disruptive". What a turd.

Please refrain from comments such as this. Not only inflammatory but incensative.Won't happen again.

[corvette k225]

Geeeeeeee, sorry to here all the problems with SH4 , glad I remove it from my Hard Drive! about three weeks ago, on Patch 1.2 and a still alot of bugs! was this the same team that made SHIII? if so you would think somethings would have been learned by now, Iam starting to wonder about SH V if we get one??:oops: :oops:

[Reece]

From what I've read most of the Dev Team is new, only a few from the original SHIII game. I will not comment as I don't want to be thrown in the Brig again!:lol:

[THE_MASK]

SDK would be better , modders could fix it themselves and i am sure sales would skyrocket .

[Reece]

That's a lovely dream Sober!:yep: but were you sober when you said it!:D

[THE_MASK]

No harm in dreamin :roll:

[Camaero]

I am quite happy with SHIV. There are too many things that annoy me to play a full campaign, but I fully expected this when buying it. There are always bugs at launch, and this doesn't seem to be any different than SHIII. Did any of you buy this thinking it would be different? Not me. I will happily take whatever patches they put out and I will wait for the modders to turn this into the best sub simulation ever made which is exactly what they did for SHIII.

If nothing else, I am just happy the devs put out the foundation to make this possible. In the meantime, I am getting some damn good desktop wallpapers!:rock:

[richoahu]

Bug list v2


16) I've got a merchant here; that I put a torpedo into, stopping it's engines, but it still continues on at about 4 knts, despite a heavy list to Starboard.

i think this one is explainable....the ocean currents. nothing in the ocean is going to come to a dead stop relevant to another floating object?


just a guess. plus i never even saw half the bugs posted, or if i did, i didn't notice. i am playing the game, not picking it apart.

don't get me wrong, i am glad someone is pointing out errors/bugs. but as long as i enjoy playing the game, i let the minor things go past. i guess i am not that "into" it.

i have had a coupel CTD but i thing that is my cpu...well actualy just game freezes, but at those times my cpu feels very hot so i think i am over heating...damn hot weather in hawaii! ;-P

[Grunt]

Bug list v2


16) I've got a merchant here; that I put a torpedo into, stopping it's engines, but it still continues on at about 4 knts, despite a heavy list to Starboard.

i think this one is explainable....the ocean currents. nothing in the ocean is going to come to a dead stop relevant to another floating object?

Not too sure about that, mostly because if the cargo ship is drifting with the tide at 4kts, so is the submarine.

[TheSatyr]

Just to chime in on the "many small patches vs a few large patches" thing. It's rarely going to ever happen with any game other than MMOs. Alot of smaller patches would cost more to develop than a few big ones,and the suits are going to go for what they see as the bigger bang at the lower price.

[joea]

Tired of all the NEGATIVE people here. There seems to be SO MANY negative people here. Positive people seem to make no posts or they are rare to stick out their neck because of b.s like this.

Me too, it seems sometimes that no matter what with UBI rushing the game out too soon and the chorus of whining kicking and screaming that we will see the death of the subsim genre. :down:

[macky]

1.2 was a great patch:up:

It made it playable and should have been the vanilla SH4!

There are still problems tho and these posts ARE useful. The only thing that ruins great posts like this is the negative vibes from some people. We have all heard over and over again that we are beta testers...etc...etc...paid $50 etc..etc...

Time to stop these now as its just flaming for flaming sake. Lets make this game great by constructively putting together a bug list like the original poster has suggested. This can then be prioritised by the subsimmers here and hopefully the devs will answer those with a great 1.3 patch.

I would like to see the bug list in a locked post, no replies underneath, just a stickied locked post that shows the list of bugs that have been verified and organised. Could some nice gentleman perform this for the community?;)

[DragonRR1]

Updated the list to version 3 here:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=112193&page=13

[leeclose]

Well over night theres been some great posts in this thread hopefully fingers crossed some one will read it and say theese guys know this is a good game with flaws and then they will fix it. I think a lot of us expected sh4 to be buggy when it got released espesh all the original sh3 players.
What i can see is it will eventually be up to the modder to fix all the wee things like historical problems and if they do i think the more help we can give them the better. Its good to get a good moan out about something and now its time to make ubi aware we would like it fixed please and if you come across any bugs please put them into the 1.2 bug patch thread.

[leeclose]

Ive noticed over the course of yesterday and today there seems to be even more probs sprining up old ones as in same as the 1.1 patch and totally new and whacky bugs all good fun:damn: