[REL] Flavored To Taste 2.3 [Archive] - SUBSIM Radio Room Forums

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Ducimus

04-18-07, 12:40 PM

Update: 23Apr07 / New version 2.3.

Changes to 2.3 (warning: You MUST return to port before applying this version)

- Darker background for rec manual added

- Set max depth to sub test depth in CFG. D key will now level off at max saftey depth. Handy after attacking a convoy.

- Readjusted sub zon files. Adding to crush depth i feel is no longer neccessary. Crash speed remains at 1 (defualt is 2)

- 25% reduction of aircraft speed has been removed, as its no longer neccessary.

- airstrike.cfg Max Aircraft range changed from 2000, to 1700

- Some upgrade packs are now spread out more on date. Twin 20MM now aviable in 6/42, deckgun 4"50 cal in 1/43

- new engine sounds

- doubled flood times on shipping. They wont sink as fast now, but still fairly quick.

- doubled spawn time on all troop ship convoys.

- removed any chance of Yamoto battleships spawning in normal task forces.

- Readjusted SD/SJ radar. I have basically remoevd SD radar from play by making its max range 10 meters, and am using the SJ radar as a substite by raising its max height so it can detect aircraft. The result in play is you have to remember to turn on your radar, and can turn it off when leaving or entering port, rather then suffer the radar contact spam.

- Added hotkey for calling battlestions: The B key.

Changes made in ver 2.0 -2.2

AI sensors
- Visual / light factor from 2.0 to 1.75
- Type93_1A -> Max elevation from 100 to 104
Depth charges
- changed Min damage radius from 4.5 to 3.5
- changed max damage radius from 15 to 14
Player Sensors
- Hydrophone MaxSensorHeight from -9 to -4
Radar mod by Jace11
- 90/270 fix for surface radars by Redwine and Letterboy
- an SD fix (lowered det height)
Pearl Harbor International dateline bug workaround
- Have changed out of harbor starting position for the Pearl Harbor flotilla so you appear West of the International dateline, thereby avoiding the international dateline bug until you decide to return to port. At which point it makes no difference since your done anyway.

- Cleanup of Misc files that weren't neccessary.

What is this mod?
It's just a personal project, and for me is acutally a source of enjoyment. I can't just play this game, i have to get into its inner workings too. When i really get into a game like this, i tend to hone it around the edges to make the game more to my liking. Hence the name "flavored to taste", for want of a better term. This mod represents modfications to refine the game to how *I* would like to play. I document what changes i make as best i can and provide the package as sort of a gesture of good will if it will help make the game more enjoyable for you. You can change, edit, and remove whatever you don't like to flavor the game more to your own taste.

Scope of mod
This is not meant to be a "super mod", nor will i intentionally go down that road. My overall intent is to make the game more pleasing to play, and to provide a challenge to the player . In the course of those two primary goals, there WILL be (and already has) been some deviation from historical accuracy. This is not a mod for a "rivet counter", nor is this a mod for someone looking for "quake3 in subs". SImply put, i've always felt that sometimes one must compromise on historical accuracy for various reasons. Either for reasons of gameplay, or by limitations imposed by the game itself.

Why did you remove the next/ previous camera?
This modification is the most frequently asked and is testiment that this mod is not intended to make things easy despite some compromises to historical accuracy. I have always felt that the external camera gives the player too much info, and is something of a cheat given that the player can obtain info a real sub captain never could. Yet, its silly to deny oneself the eyecandy. Hence the "compromised realism camera". you can still look about your sub, but can't look at sound/radar contacts taht you otherwise couldnt see. Now, when you get a sonar/radar contact, you really have to wonder what you have there.

Basic list of Features

- AI adjusted to present a bit more of a challenge

- Player User Interface enhancements, and medal fixes.

- Range to course end, Max range at current speed, nearest visual contact, ID target, etc have been mapped to the orders bar; and they even have their own icons now.

- Speed/distance chart added to help menu to better aid you in plotting your intercepts.

- Aircraft are more deadly, a little bit harder to destroy, but also spawn a bit less frequently then in stock, and are 25% slower.

- Deck gun has been toned down a little bit.

- Improved player visual sensors, pig boats shoud now be able to have sonar contacts at periscope depth w/ scope down.

- Misc improvements to player radar. SD radar picks up planes again, and.. even a few ships unfortunatly. SJ radar should work regardless of direction of travel.

- have multiple torpedo tubes open at once

- Misc Submarine enhancments. See readme.

- Can now start a game in 41, Jan42, June42, Jan43, June 43, and Jan 44.

- Gato can be aquired in pearl at jan42, you can transfer to the asiatic fleet in Jan42.

- Reduced contact spam on the clipboard.

- other misc changes, and a partridge in a Pear tree. see readme.

The readme:

//format wordwrap

Flavored to taste ver 2.3 By Ducimus

DISCALIMER:
This mod is freeware, and is not to be used for commerical purposes in any way, shape, or form. All ideas herein are considered intellectual property that may not be used for any commerical and/or monetary gain. This means you X1 software, or any of your associates!

INSTALLATION:
JSGME

KNOWN ISSUES:
- For some uses the 0kb movie files cause crashes at game startup. If your game crashe's, remove those files from this mod.

- Unknown if progressive tower upgrades in career game is functioning properly.

ADDITIONAL CREDITS:
- CCIP, for his orginal work on the commands.cfg and sub battery fix.
- cdrake66, for his new icons for the ordersbar
- jimimadrid, for his orderbar lamp color change
- OakGroove, for his percision bearing indicator
- fullmetaledges, for his medal changes/corrections
- Mraah, Jace11, and Redwine, for updated Sensors_sub_US.sim
- WilhelmTell for diesal engine sounds.
- Chrall, for dark rec manual background.

/////////////////////////
changlog:
////////////////////////

*********************
//AIRPOWER ADJUSTMENTS
*********************
/DATA/ZONES.CFG
-----------------------
- increased toughness of aircraft by applying GWX settings to them.

/DATA/LIBRARY/BOMBS.SIM
-----------------------
- Detonation depth from 5 to 10.
- depth percision from 5 to 10
- explosion range from 30 to 60

/DATA/CFG/AIRSTRIKE.CFG
------------------------
- max aircraft range from 2500 to 1700
- night modifier from 0.5 to 0.2

/DATA/LAND/LAB_*AIRBASEJP
-------------------------
-changed 24 squadrons to 12
-changed 12 squadrons to 9
-changed 9 squadrons to 6
-changed 6 squadrons to 4
-changed 3 squadrons to 2

*********************
//BALANCE ADJUSTMENTS
*********************
/DATA/LIBRARY/USSUBPARTS/DECK_GUN_*.*
-----------------------
(5/25 deck gun not part of these changes)
- changed reload time from 4 to 5

/DATA/LIBRARY/SHELLS.ZON
-----------------------
88MM->HE from 10/25 to 8/20
88MM->AP fom 8/16 to 6/14
105MM->HE from 14/24 to 12/20
105MM->AP from 10/20 to 10/18
20MM->AP maxEF from 2 to 1.5
20MM->AA maxEF from 4 to 3
20MM->HE MinEF from 3 20 2
20MM->HE MaxEF from 5 to 3

/DATA/ZONES.CFG
-----------------------
- doubled flooding time for ships. (Ie, ships now take twice as long to sink)

/DATA/UPCDATA/UPCUNITSDATA/upgradepacks.UPC
-----------------------
- Twin 20MM AA avialable in 6/42
- 4" 40 cal avialabie in 1/43
- sJ radar avialable at war onset.
*********************
//IMPROVED AI
*********************

/DATA/CFG/SIM.CFG
------------------------
- ai cannons max fire range from 6K to 9K
- Ai cannons / Max error angle from 3 to 4
- lost contact time from 15 to 30 mins
- visual / enemy surface factor from 400 to 150
- visual / enemy speed factor from 15 to 9
- Visual / light factor from 1.0 to 2.0 (2.0 to 1.75)
- hydrophone / sensitivity from 0.03 to 0.04
- hyrophone / waves factor from 0.5 to 0.95
- hydrophone / noise factor from 1 to 0.35
- hydrophone / thermal layer attun from 3.0 to 2.0
- sonar / detecton time from 20 to 10
- sonar / thermal layer attun from 5.0 to 4.0

/DATA/LIBRARY/AI_SENSORS.DAT
-----------------------
- Type93_1A -> Max elevation from 100 to 104
- Type93_3A -> Max Elevation from 100 to 108
- Type93_5A -> Max Elevation from 100 to 116

/DATA/LIBRARY/DEPTHCHARGES.*
-----------------------
- changed Min damage radius from 4.5 to 3.5
- changed max damage radius from 40 to 14
- changed depth percision from 5 to 18
- changed explosion range from 40 to 50

/DATA/CAMPAIGNS/CAMPAIGN/*.MIS
------------------------------
- crew rating 4 changed to 3
- crew rating 2 changed to 3
- crew rating 1 changed to 2
- crew rating 0 changed to 1
**exception to this rule is task forces. They may still contain elites.

**************************
//IMPROVED PLAYER SENSORS
**************************
/DATA/CFG/SENSORS.CFG
------------------------
Visual->RangeFactor from 0.5 to 0.2
Visual->FogFactor from 1 to 0.5
Visual->LightFactor from 0.8 to 0.4
Visual->WavesFactor from 0.8 to 0.2

/DATA/LIBRARY/SENSORS.DAT
-----------------------
- Visual->Precise range from 6,000 to 8,000

/DATA/LIBRARY/USSUBPARTS/Sensors_sub_US.sim
-----------------------
- SJ radar max height from 80 to 5000
- SD radar range reduced to max 10 meters
- Radar ElevationMin/Max from 359/181 to 0/360

*********************
//UI ENHANCMENTS
*********************

DATA/CFG/COMMANDS.CFG
---------------------------
- added goback to navigation map view, and a few other stations
- changed torpedo inventory screen to "I"
- reconfigured torpedo doors and cycling to sh3 settings.
- "r" key Now turns on radar unit
- disabled next/previous cam
- re-enabled snorkel depth command.
- added support to have multiple tubes open at once.
- applied 1.2 patch change with "a" key
- remapped B key to toggle Battlestations.

/DATA/MENU/MENU.TXT
--------------------
- added tooltip info to support new commands added to orders bar.
- changed "snorkel depth" to "Radar depth"
- changed default player name
- changed "quick mission" to "single mission"
- added torpedo tooltip info.
- changed medal names as part of "real medals" mod.

/DATA/MENU/CFG/DIALS.CFG
---------------------------------------
- disabled clickng noise when using perisope and TBT

/DATA/MENU/CFG/ORDERSBAR.CFG
---------------------------------------
- added missing functions to the UI command bar.
- renabled commands to go to radar station.

/DATA/MENU/GUI/BEARING.DDS
---------------------------------------
-Percision bearing indicator from OakGroove's Minimalistic optics mod.

/DATA/MENU/GUI/LAYOUT/HUD.*
---------------------------------------
- button icons for FTT by cdrake66
- "greenlamp" buttons added to menubar (orginal concept by jimimadrid )

/DATA/MENU/GUI/LAYOUT/CREWSYSTEMSMANGEMENT.DDS
---------------------------------------
- Part of "Real_medals" mod by fullmetaledges.

/DATA/MENU/DATA/AWARDSITEMS*.DDS
--------------------
- Part of "Real_medals" mod by fullmetaledges.

/DATA/MENU/DATA/RECOGNITIONMANUAL.DDS
--------------------
- darker background for Rec manual by Chrall

*************************
//CAREER GAME ENHANCMENTS
*************************
/DATA/UPCDATA/UPCAMPAIGNDATA/CAREERSTART.UPC
-----------------------
-can now start career game in 12/41, 1/42, 6/42, 1/43, 6/43, and 1/44

/DATA/UPCDATA/UPCAMPAIGNDATA/FLOTILLAS.UPC
-----------------------
- changed gato availability date to 1942-01-01 for Pearl Harbor, AND 1942-06-01 for the Asiatic fleet.

- Changed Pearl Harbor outside of base start location to West of the international dateline.

/DATA/CAMPAIGNS/CAMPAIGN/*.MIS
------------------------------
- Troop ship convoy's spawn time = stockTime * 2
- assigned all instances of "generic battleship" a specific battleship type.

*********************
//SUB ADJUSTMENTS
*********************

DATA/SUBMARINE/NSS_*/NSS_*.cfg
-------------------
-changed engine throttle settings. Ahead slow adjusted for silent running, ahead 1/3rd is like the old ahead slow.
- changed storm conditions from 7 kt winds and 0.1 rain to 15 kt winds and 0.2 rain.
- changed crash dive depth to 160 feet (48.8 meters)
- changed snorkel depth to 40 feet (12.2 meters), intent is radar depth.
- Set max depth to sub test depth. D key will now level off at max saftey depth.

DATA/SUBMARINE/NSS_*/NSS_*.upc
------------------------------
-moved crewman stationed at xmas tree to occupy empty planesman position.
- bathtub expired by beginning of war / replaced with midwar tower
- late war tower when starting in 43

DATA/SUBMARINE/NSS_*/NSS_*.sim
------------------------------
- ccip's battery fix / electric = 83 @ 4

- ManBT_flood_speed on Tambor/gar/gato from 20,000 to 35,000
(crash dive speed from 1min 10 seconds to 46 seconds)

- ManBT_flood_speed on Salmon/Sargo from 20,000 to 29,000
(crash dive speed now 45-48 seconds)

DATA/SUBMARINE/NSS_*/NSS_*.zon
------------------------------
- crash speed from 2 to 1.

*********************
//SOUND ADJUSTMENTS
*********************

/DATA/SOUND/MUSIC/MUSIC.CFG
--------------------------
- disabled all normal ingame music. (battle, tension, stalker)

DATA/SOUND/
----------------
- added quieter internal ambience for sub
- reduced background whitenoise on hydropones
- improved sound for AA guns.
- sonar ping from das boot
- changed dive and crash dive alarm klaxon's so it sounds like "arrooga, arroga, dive, dive".
- torpedo launch
- improved creaks
- periscope up down
- decreased volume on crashdive, divealarm, and surface kalxon's.
- replaced fanfaire music. (band at dock)
- engine and propeller sounds.

*********************
//MISC ADJUSTMENTS
*********************

/DATA/UPCDATA/UPCUNITSDATA/AMMUNTION.UPC
-----------------------
-removed renown cost for MK 23 torpedo

/DATA/UPCDATA/UPCCREWDATA/CREWMEMBERS*.UPC
-----------------------
- changed hitpoints from 5 to 10

/DATA/CFG/CONTACTS.CFG
------------------------
- lowered opportune contacts from 1500 to 300
- lowered important contacts from 3500 to 600
- contact range -> medium from 3000 to 4,000
- contact range -> from 20,000 to 8,000

/DATA/CFG/GAMEPLAYSETTINGS.CFG
------------------------
- No external view setting changed from 8 to 0
- realistic fuel changed from 8 to 16.
- changed default realism settings
- reversed listing order of starting renown drp dwn list box

DATA/MOVIES/INTRO
---------------------
-disables intro movies

DATA/CAPTAINPICTURE/PICTURE.TGA
---------------------
- Now what captain really keeps a picture of himself on his desk?

/DATA/MENU/HELP.TXT
--------------------
-New and improved

D/L Link:
http://www.ducimus.net/sh4/release/REL_Flavored_to_taste_2_3.7z (6.08 mb)

Recommended additional mods to run with this one:

Periscope Telemeter Lenses, 32 dgr Field and 8 dgr Field
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=110064
Retextured Orders bar gauges
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=110655
360 degree bearing tool
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=108555
JP Ship Dimension Fix 1.2
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=109953
Combination of Mini Chrono Mod & Imperial Nomograph
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=112478

U768

04-18-07, 12:45 PM

Thank, Ducimus.

Marko_Ramius

04-18-07, 01:11 PM

Big thanks to you :up:

This one is the one i was waiting for to begin a SH4 1.2 trip :cool:

perisher

04-18-07, 01:18 PM

Thank you

Barkhorn1x

04-18-07, 01:21 PM

Thanks man - will be loading tonight!!

PeriscopeDepth

04-18-07, 03:15 PM

Thanks! I guess I can start a patrol now.

PD

U56

04-18-07, 03:43 PM

Gratefully downloaded!! I can now start a 1.2 career:D

Regards

Ducimus

04-18-07, 04:07 PM

Just FYI, beware the planes :D They really do have more of a bite now. I figured i'd warn everyone. *grin*

bombs.sim

- Detonation depth from 5 to 10.
- depth percision from 5 to 10
- explosion range from 30 to 60

This means that, a bomb will detonate at 10 meters (32.8 ft), with a random chance of exploding at any depth within 10 meters of that 33 ft mark. In other words, bombs mgiht expode on the surface, or they might expode as deep at 65.6 ft, and your gonna be rockin' and a rollin if they do :D

So when you crash dive... don't stop at periscope depth :rotfl:

Frenssen

04-18-07, 04:13 PM

Thanks, just in time for my new career after I ran USS Tang aground in the Java Sea:oops:

CruiseTorpedo

04-18-07, 04:25 PM

I havent tried this out yet but does it include the option to open all torpedo doors by cycling through them with Y then hitting Q to open?

Btw, thanks a million!

Salvadoreno

04-18-07, 04:41 PM

um.. ehh.. how do i get a salvo of torps selected?!

Oh yes and are the recommended mods 1.2 compatible as well?

LZ_Baker

04-18-07, 04:43 PM

Thanks for the mod mate :up:

Ducimus

04-18-07, 05:15 PM

does it include the option to open all torpedo doors by cycling through them with Y then hitting Q to open?
Yup. They won't close until you tell them to, or shoot the torpedo.

are the recommended mods 1.2 compatible as well?
Those are what i use, and I havent had any problem.

As an aside, id be interested in how ubi's changes with the sub damage model is working out. (i removed all sub damage tweaks in this version) If its not that much different then before, i'll take the sub compartment hitpoints and flood time and multiply them by 2 as i did before.

Strikor

04-18-07, 06:24 PM

Interesting changes with the gun power. I always felt a bit guilty taking out 4 or 5 large freighters with them.

bruschi sauro

04-19-07, 01:05 AM

Thank You Mate

Ducimus

04-19-07, 03:06 AM

I'll have a new version up tonight. Major change is ive found a way for people who want to have a career out of pearl harbor, to avoid the international dateline bug. Testing it right now, should be done in 10 mins or so.

TopCat

04-19-07, 04:51 AM

Cheers Mate, your mod is absolutely brilliant! :up:
Because of your mod I play sh4 again, and be sure, my wife hates you for that :rotfl:

One question concerning radar:
In your readme it says that SD Radar will report ships. I played a career (gato/1943) yesterday with SD and SJ on board and noticed this:

- Ship contacts were only reported when radar was turned on :up:

- Air contacts were never reported. I was attacked by dozens of aircrafts and never ever was one of them detected or reported by radar :down: , no matter whether radar was switched on or off. So, can you confirm, that SD-Radar really detects aircraft? If yes, what the h... am I doing wrong?

Cheers
TC

Ducimus

04-19-07, 05:07 AM

- Air contacts were never reported. I was attacked by dozens of aircrafts and never ever was one of them detected or reported by radar , no matter whether radar was switched on or off. So, can you confirm, that SD-Radar really detects aircraft? If yes, what the h... am I doing wrong?

At this point this is a big unknown to me. This is the 2nd night in a row since the 2.1 patch that ive been up to 3am, and i really havent gotten a chance to play the game yet beyond testing mod changes. lol. Anyway Ubi said they fixed the radar. All i did to it was fix the one "bug" that people reported. That of only being able to detect from 90 to 270 or whatever it is. But again, ive seen posts frm people saying the radar isnt detecting planes.

This is why i included the sub sensor file in the support directory from the previous version of this mod. That one WILL detect.. umm... everything! Or at least it should assuming that file is 1.2 compatiable. If you find your not detecting planes, try that file if you dont mind surface contacts with SD radar. But.. at least it woudl work.. (hopefully).

Anyway new version is up. People who like to start a game from pearl harbor will like this the most.

you now have two options with pearl harbor. You can start in harbor and have to cross the international dateline and get all buggered, or.... you can start outside the harbor, which ive placed a new starting location for. You'll now appear about 150-200 KM west of the international dateline and midway. You'll still have to cross the dateline when returning to port, but at that point it doesnt matter.

TopCat

04-19-07, 05:24 AM

Thanks! Great work!
So for the moment I prefer no air contacts at all.
And hope that ubi will soon release a fix...

Jace11

04-19-07, 07:23 AM

They did something to SD radar in 1.2

It is in the 1.2 Sensors_subUS.sim, cause the 1.1 version of this file, when used in SH4 1.2, restores SD radars ability to detect planes....

If only we knew what the problem was. Could be a node... but they look like they have altered range, surface etc etc too..

Could it be one of these changes that is causing it to fail? If only elanaiba or someone could tell us what the problem is...

CruiseTorpedo

04-19-07, 09:33 AM

I've ran a couple of forum searches to see what the dateline bug even is, I can't find an explanation, just people saying they want it fixed. So what's the problem with the IDL? What's it do?

Ducimus

04-19-07, 11:49 AM

I've ran a couple of forum searches to see what the dateline bug even is, I can't find an explanation, just people saying they want it fixed. So what's the problem with the IDL? What's it do?

Well, whats been proven is that it effects the Attack map. What will happen is that after you leave from pearl and cross the IDL, the torpedo track indicators and torpedo icons (the one where you can see them leaving your boat) disappear, and will stay that way for the rest of the patrol. Kind of annoying.

I also have other suspicions about it as well. For one, i can't recall having one single dud, or one single ciruclar running torpedo when leaving pearl. I got a bunch of them leaving from the asiatic fleet ports, but never when i left from pearl. Maybe i just had a few lucky runs, but i still have my suspicions.

On top of that it felt like the career track for the career game at the time was stuck in a loop. Im not sure if its IDL related or not.

Another thing that i do not think is any coincidence is the location of Hawaii and Midway on them map as they appear in SH3. This is important to note since SH4 is derived from SH3's engine. In SH3, Midway and pearl are on the extreme left of the map (west). The acutal south pacific and japanese area waters are on the extreme right of the map (far east). The point here is while you could cross from one end of the map to another it behaved in a weird way when you did it in relation to waypoints. THe game coudlnt follow them. I read somewhere the devs did something with this border between the two halves of the map, and its this border, that seems to be the location of where the problem feeels like its orginating. If that makes any sense.

U56

04-19-07, 12:49 PM

Cuppla notes after using FTT2.1. I reinstalled your included sub-sensors file 1.1 to see if the SD radar would pick up aircraft again. I am using a S-18 out of Brisbane in career mode, with bot SJ and SD radar installed. So far the SJ works fine, but have had three aircraft sitings so far with none detected by radar. (radar was on in all cases). This may be an S18 class issue as much as anything else. Interestingly, none of the aircraft were heading straight for the sub, were at varying angles, despite the weather being good with calm or moderate seas. With the S18's fast diving speed, I was never bombed, though one aircraft appeared to change course for a closer look. Dunno if this is a 1.2 improvement, or your work Ducimus!, but either way keep up the good work as loving your mod:D

Regards

Meridian

04-19-07, 12:54 PM

Ducimus:

You may want to take a look at the Sensors_sub_US.sim file, the 1.1 version in the docs folder not the 1.2.

I had a quick look in minitweaker and it looks as though a set of Hydrophone values have been mixed up with some values for an SJ. Can't check on exactly which they were ATM, not on my own PC.

Actually, it's the NSS_Hydrophone 3 & NSS_EarlySJ 5 values that look as though they are swapped.

Jace11

04-19-07, 01:16 PM

Onkel Neal

04-19-07, 01:26 PM

Great job!!

Neal

Meridian

04-19-07, 01:39 PM

http://mpgtext.net/subshare/776Sensors_sub_US.sim

here is a radar fix for 1.2

It is 1.2 sensors fom the patch.
+ 90/270 fix for surface radars by Redwine and Letterboy
+ an SD fix (lowered det height)

Works ok..

Thanks Jace, my eyes are starting to go funny looking through all these files. :o

Just tried to have a quick look with MiniTweaker and it couldn't find any of the values that were in the old tweak file, are you using a new sensor tweak file?

Ducimus

04-19-07, 01:44 PM

http://mpgtext.net/subshare/776Sensors_sub_US.sim

here is a radar fix for 1.2

It is 1.2 sensors fom the patch.
+ 90/270 fix for surface radars by Redwine and Letterboy
+ an SD fix (lowered det height)

Works ok..

Cool, and thanks. , i'll give it a whirl later and probably include it in the mod with credits cause im really tired of messing with that damn radar. I wish i could just take a hammer to it and yell, "Work damn you!"

TopCat

04-19-07, 02:22 PM

Jace and Ducimus, you're my heroes. I've got to test it straight away! :up: :up: :up:

TopCat

04-19-07, 03:23 PM

Hi Jace

I tested your new Radar-file. I made a special test-mission for it where I placed several ships and aircrafts in a range from 10 to 50 km. Unfortunately there are still issues.

The SJ-Radar works fine so far.

The SD-Radar has the 90 to 270 bug, i.e. when travelling south, the planes are not detected.

The SD-Radar detects ships as well (with any course).

Ducimus

04-19-07, 03:50 PM

Radar issues aside,
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=111562&page=4

I've been wondering how people find the AI in this mod. Still too easy? Too hard? or just right?

Omnissiah

04-19-07, 07:25 PM

Radar issues aside,
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=111562&page=4

I've been wondering how people find the AI in this mod. Still too easy? Too hard? or just right?

I've been home sick today, so I've spent all day playing your mod. So far, so good.

-A typical result: Early morning attack run on a task force...Kongos, cruisers, DDs, the works. Put 4 torps into a Kongo. Destroyers went berserk, circled my position, made depth charge runs, etc etc etc. Real fun time, and perfectly awesome AI. After my escape, I went back to finish off the Kongo. Finally got her with another two torps, and two of the destroyers came charging back at 38 knots and went nuts with the depth charges. I was too shallow, they surrounded me, adios USS Spearfish. Perfect (except for the dying part).

However, some troubles:

- No pinging! Ever! Not one single dd has pinged me at all. Could this be a bug with 1.2? Something wrong with my sound? No searchlights either. Ever. I know I'm not the only one to have this problem in 1.2 (modded or unmodded), but I can't figure it out.

- Did you nerf the enemy AI visual contact skills? Seems like I can get pretty darn close before they spot me.

- Also, the bad guys don't react to getting shot at with my cannons if they don't see me. Weird but true, I've tested this under several conditions. If they haven't spotted me, I can blow off chunks of their superstructre with the deck guns, and they still don't react.

Other than those few quirks (which probably don't have anything to do with FTT), the AI seems on target.

BTW, for whatever reason, the radars are working fine for me.

Ducimus

04-19-07, 08:19 PM

>> No pinging! Ever!

Thats weird. I suspect thats a patch1.2 issue. ill doublecheck to make sure ubi didnt update the AI_sensors.dat and sim.cfg. Im pretty sure they didnt though, but ill check anyway. What depth were you at BTW? Maybe you got under their sonar cone. They wont ping if you do.

>>Did you nerf the enemy AI visual contact skills?

Not really. Im using the EXACT same settings as the previous version of this mod. All i did was increase the light factor setting which effectively dampers their dusk/dawn/and night vision. Id expect them to be blind at night, but NOT during the day if thats the case. I have noticed that aircraft dont seem to be spotting me since patch 1.2, so i suspect theres something else going on.

>>the radars are working fine for me.

SD radar too?

thanks for the feedback. :up:

Jace11

04-19-07, 08:24 PM

I just retested the radar, seems fine to me. Made a mission with japanese planes approaching from 000 090 180 and 270...

Picked them all up..seems fine to me. I was heading south too, if that makes any difference..

As to whether SD is picking up surface contacts I can't say, need to test that further. There may be not much we can do about it. We had to lower the Min Height just to get it working again.. if I raise it it wont pick up planes again..weird but seemingly true..

Ducimus

04-19-07, 08:38 PM

Jace, which sensor file were you using?

Jace11

04-19-07, 09:08 PM

There are a lot knocking around so I uploaded it again..

http://www.speedyshare.com/292155739.html

Ducimus

04-19-07, 09:47 PM

There are a lot knocking around so I uploaded it again..

http://www.speedyshare.com/292155739.html
Thanks.

Same readme?

here is a radar fix for 1.2

It is 1.2 sensors fom the patch.
+ 90/270 fix for surface radars by Redwine and Letterboy
+ an SD fix (lowered det height)
If your confident with it, ill include it in next revision of FTT. Which might be tonight after i look at the AI again.

EDIT:

Notes to self:
ver 2.2
:AI sensors
- Visual / light factor from 2.0 to 1.75
- Type93_1A -> Max elevation from 100 to 104
: Depth charges
- changed Min damage radius from 4.5 to 3.5
- changed max damage radius from 40 to 14

:Player Sensors
- Hydrophone MaxSensorHeight from -9 to -4
:Jace11 fix
- 90/270 fix for surface radars by Redwine and Letterboy
- an SD fix (lowered det height)

Omnissiah

04-19-07, 10:13 PM

Okey dokey, forget my earlier comments about enemy visual sightings...I wasn't factoring in dawn/dusk times...at high noon they see me just fine. :oops:

Still no pinging at any depth...I should point out that the enemy acts like they're pinging: they don't seem to have any trouble targeting me with depth charges when I'm above 150 feet...I'm just not hearing any pings...weird, but hardly a game-killer.

And sorry, I should of been more clear: the radars work fine with the sensors_sub_US.sim tweak Jace11 posted. However, since I posted that I've been getting getting inconsistent results with the SD and surface contacts. I went on a patrol with just it (no SJ) installed for testing, and sometimes it picks up surface contacts, sometimes it doesn't. There doesn't appear to be any rhyme or reason to it.

Anyhoo, this mod is going great...thanks!

Ducimus

04-20-07, 11:46 AM

Update: 20Apr07 / New version 2.2.
Unless there's a major breakthrough in radar or buggetry that needs to be addressed, this will probably be the last version of this mod until patch 1.3.

Changes since 2.0

AI sensors
- Visual / light factor from 2.0 to 1.75
- Type93_1A -> Max elevation from 100 to 104
Depth charges
- changed Min damage radius from 4.5 to 3.5
- changed max damage radius from 15 to 14
Player Sensors
- Hydrophone MaxSensorHeight from -9 to -4
Radar mod by Jace11
- 90/270 fix for surface radars by Redwine and Letterboy
- an SD fix (lowered det height)
Pearl Harbor International dateline bug workaround
- Have changed out of harbor starting position for the Pearl Harbor flotilla so you appear West of the International dateline, thereby avoiding the international dateline bug until you decide to return to port. At which point it makes no difference since your done anyway.

- Cleanup of Misc files that weren't neccessary.

U-Bones

04-20-07, 11:58 AM

Well done, thanks !

Barkhorn1x

04-20-07, 01:36 PM

Ducimus:

You da man!!

CruiseTorpedo

04-20-07, 01:39 PM

Now get to playing the game for once Ducimus and enjoy! I've started a new career but I havent ran into any destoyers yet, just some lone shipping or pairs of merchants. I'm sure a convoy will show up sooner or later to go after, but so far I'm looovin the radar fixes, open torpedo door fix, and not to mention the missing buttons and tweaks you've made! I've recommended this mod to a number of friends who own the game, without it SH4 feels incomplete, with it I think SH4 is great!

U56

04-20-07, 04:32 PM

WernerSobe

04-20-07, 10:35 PM

Ducimus

04-21-07, 12:49 AM

Very nice work. Just one thing.

Is there a way to make SD Radar detect planes only? Or can you tell me the offset for the set of data in Sensors_sub_US.sim for SD Radar, id like to play around with numbers maybe i can find the right setup.

Read this thread completely to get up to speed.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=111562

letterboy1

04-21-07, 01:13 PM

http://mpgtext.net/subshare/776Sensors_sub_US.sim

here is a radar fix for 1.2

It is 1.2 sensors fom the patch.
+ 90/270 fix for surface radars by Redwine and Letterboy
+ an SD fix (lowered det height)

Works ok..

Please remove my name from the credits as I was only working on the tweaked Sensors_sub_US.sim file as per Redwine, Ducimus and Mraah's advice. I ended up having to immediately remove my link anyway because I jumped the gun before Mraah was able to warn about an error in the tweak file he made. Honestly, I'm lost as to fixing the whole radar issue. I open these files, I say "My God, it's full of stars," and then I close them real quick before I hyperventilate. :D

poncho

04-22-07, 06:18 AM

Is there a way to play this mod using the external view occasionally ?What changes are necessary and how to make them and keep most of the mod intact .

Thanks

LZ_Baker

04-22-07, 10:56 AM

Is this what you mean?

Why did you remove the next/ previous camera?
This modification is the most frequently asked and is testiment that this mod is not intended to make things easy despite some compromises to historical accuracy. I have always felt that the external camera gives the player too much info, and is something of a cheat given that the player can obtain info a real sub captain never could. Yet, its silly to deny oneself the eyecandy. Hence the "compromised realism camera". you can still look about your sub, but can't look at sound/radar contacts taht you otherwise couldnt see. Now, when you get a sonar/radar contact, you really have to wonder what you have there.[/quote]

EDIT: Make sure the mod is not installed when you edit!!

You need to go into Data/cfg/commands.cfg
You can open this file in note/wordpad.
Remove the ; before commands 50 and 51. You will see it says the < and > buttons there.
Save!

Ducimus, this mod might be worth adding:\http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=112843

Ducimus

04-22-07, 02:02 PM

Ducimus, this mod might be worth adding:\http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=112843

While i havent really said so, im deliberatly avoiding including any modificaiton of the 1024_768.ini file. Theres so many different little mods cropping up with that, i dont want to get into compatiablity issues. Im going to wait until things settle down with tha and some final versions start appearing. Which will be a few months from now im guessing. Until then, im just giong to leave that an empty space so people can plugin what they want.

Over the course of the weekend, ive been making more tweaks. Heres a quick punchlist of a yet to be publshed revision:

- darker background for rec manual

- readjusted zon files. Increasing crush depth really isnt neccessary anymore, now only reduced crash speed from 2 to 1.

- adjusted sub.cfg files so when setting yoru dive planes at normal dive, the sub levels off at your maximum saftey depth. This way when your in a hurry, just hit the D key and not worry about it. Very hand after attacking a convoy when you have to go deep quick. Whereas before, your boat would go all the way to the bottom if you let it. Exception to this is the Balao, whole point of that boat is to go at 400 ft (or below?).

- I removed the 25% speed reduction on aircraft. Not really needed.

- decreased max distance specfied in airstrike.cfg from 2000 to 1500.

- I dated some upgrade packages. the Twin 20MM AA guns become available in 6/42, and the 4" 50 cal deck gun in 1/43.

- I remapped the B key to toggle battle stations. Much more handy then including an icon on every menu bar - and alot less work too). Binoclulars accessable from mouse wheel or TaB key.

- replaced diesal engine sounds

- doubled flood time on ships. So they shouldnt drop like rocks so fast after torpedoing them. They still flood down fairly quick in compared to GWX or NYGM for SH3 though.

Im thinking about:
- adding an IXC or IXD2 to represent German Monsun boats around Penang, the java sea, and some areas around austalia. Doing so would double this mods file size, so im just thinking about it at this point.

- decreasing spawn rates on task forces and such. I swear ive sunk more ocean liners in 2 weeks of Sh4 then 3 years of SH3.

- Im also considering dumping that damn SD radar altogther and retweak the SJ to pick up air contacts as well. At least this way you can turn the damn thing off when going into port without being spammed by SD surface contacts. As it is, unless a way is found to make the SD radar pick up only air targets, its really kind of pointless, and considering you can't turn it off. ANNOYING!

poncho

04-22-07, 04:40 PM

LZ_Baker:

Thanks for the help .

Much appreciated

letterboy1

04-22-07, 04:55 PM

[quote=LZ_Baker]

- Im also considering dumping that damn SD radar altogther and retweak the SJ to pick up air contacts as well. At least this way you can turn the damn thing off when going into port without being spammed by SD surface contacts. As it is, unless a way is found to make the SD radar pick up only air targets, its really kind of pointless, and considering you can't turn it off. ANNOYING!

For what it's worth, I totally agree. If the SD can't be tweaked to ignore surface contacts (or to be turned off) then your idea of making the SJ detect aircraft is a very reasonable alternative. I would definitely welcome this until something changes with the SD.

Strikor

04-22-07, 06:11 PM

I like that idea. I never leave port without SJ installed and it would actually make remembering to turn the radar back on after surfacing important.

CaptainKobuk

04-23-07, 07:12 AM

The addition of German subs sounds very cool. If the can be Modded into the Campaign.

I mainly wanted to say i really appreciate this Mod. Which i mainly use to get some more challenge, even though perhaps the Japs can detect my sub slightly easier than was the actual reality in 41-42 and 1943. I don't know how good they got later.

Starting west of the Inernational Dateline is a great new feature of this MOD. I only use a GATO and i MOD it to cruise at 400-450 feet deep. :ping: Until the Balio arrives. Which i've yet to even try out.

I forget. Can we control depth with the dive planes? I guess so. With the A-key to maintain depth it could be possible to run at 500-600 feet deep. With a MOD to the max depth. In real life, how deep could the GATO or Balio actually run at i wonder?

EAF274 Johan

04-23-07, 12:29 PM

Ducimus

04-23-07, 01:00 PM

Question: what is "changed storm conditions from 7 kt winds and 0.1 rain to 15 kt winds and 0.2 rain" supposed to do?
I noticed that I was getting long periods of similar weather (11m/s wind, no rain) using the mod. I put back the original files and soon I had rain again (and a bridge crew with matching weather gear). Could be a coincidence, of course :)

Orginally if the winds were exceeded 7 kts, or so much as a little drop of rain, then the game would consider them "storm conditions". So while you could still main the guns, if you told the AI to shoot something, you'd get "weather too rough sir".

So what i did was change it so the wind doesnt effect when you can tell the AI to shoot something, and increased the rain so they don't overreact to a little mosture like reporters in Southern California do with a little drop of rain. Basically a water molicule comes out of the air and its 'Stormwatch 2007! next on Eyewitness news!". Crew was (over) reacting in the same way in my opinion. Call it a pet peeve if you want :rotfl:

On a side note, i just finished some campaign adjustments:

- Troop ship convoy's spawn time = stockTime * 2
- assigned all instances of "generic battleship" a specific battleship type.

Basically, it won't be raining 20K ton Passanger liners on the campaign map and you wont be sinking the Yamoto like a common destroyer. THE Yamoto should be a scripted ship, not something that spawns like just any other ship in the game.

Ducimus

04-23-07, 01:35 PM

New version up :roll:

Changes to 2.3

- Darker background for rec manual added

- Set max depth to sub test depth in CFG. D key will now level off at max saftey depth. Handy after attacking a convoy.

- Readjusted sub zon files. Adding to crush depth i feel is no longer neccessary. Crash speed remains at 1 (defualt is 2)

- 25% reduction of aircraft speed has been removed, as its no longer neccessary.

- airstrike.cfg Max Aircraft range changed from 2000, to 1700

- Some upgrade packs are now spread out more on date. Twin 20MM now aviable in 6/42, deckgun 4"50 cal in 1/43

- new engine sounds

- doubled flood times on shipping. They wont sink as fast now, but still fairly quick.

- doubled spawn time on all troop ship convoys.

- removed any chance of Yamoto battleships spawning in normal task forces.

- Readjusted SD/SJ radar. I have basically remoevd SD radar from play by making its max range 10 meters, and am using the SJ radar as a substite by raising its max height so it can detect aircraft. The result in play is you have to remember to turn on your radar, and can turn it off when leaving or entering port, rather then suffer the radar contact spam.

- Added hotkey for calling battlestions: The B key.

ReallyDedPoet

04-23-07, 02:40 PM

Nice work as usual D:up:

Mraah

04-23-07, 04:03 PM

Very good!:up:

I have some questions though (oh no, I'm thinking again) :roll: .

1. - ManBT_flood_speed - Where did you start/stop the clock? I observed on default SH4 v1.2 that the GAR took 26-30 secs from "klaxon end" to mast slipping underwater for both "quick dive" and "stationary dive". I'm confused (as always).

2. - crew rating changes - Does this effect the entire war?

3. - crash speed from 2 to 1 - Is this a multiplier of flood_speed ?

Thanks again Ducimus!

Ducimus

04-23-07, 04:19 PM

1. - ManBT_flood_speed - Where did you start/stop the clock?
I started at the very start of the Klaxon after pressing C, and stopped about when the Sub marker appeared, and only the rod on the very stern of the boat was protruding the surface. I did this at a normal crusing speed of 8 kts. Which would be the normal conditions at which a crash dive occured.

2. - crew rating changes - Does this effect the entire war?
Pretty much. You'll still have crew rating 2's in the beginning of the war, but by late 42 the AI should be consistantly smarter then before.

3. - crash speed from 2 to 1 - Is this a multiplier of flood_speed ?
Effects how fast or slow a sub crush's (HP loss) when below crush depth. Default is 2. If you set this to like 4 or 5 it might be near instant death. 1 buys you a litlte bit of time.

Buzz313th

04-23-07, 05:10 PM

Great Mod, thanks.

One question though.

How would I modify this mod so I don't have the option to identify the ships with the button. I really enjoy doing it manually, and it's too tempting if that option is there.

Thanks

Mraah

04-23-07, 05:12 PM

[quote]I started at the very start of the Klaxon after pressing C, and stopped about when the Sub marker appeared, and only the rod on the very stern of the boat was protruding the surface. I did this at a normal crusing speed of 8 kts. Which would be the normal conditions at which a crash dive occured.

Hmmm. :hmm: I'll test it again. Does year matter or just the sub class?

In my initial test ,with SH4 default, the speed of the sub didn't change the time. Although, I did observe that my first CRASH dive was a least 45 seconds. After that, it only took about 26. I even waited a few minutes on the surface in case I needed to wait for the tanks to empty before the next dive. My tests are in career mode.

I'm doing something wrong, again :doh: .

Steeltrap

04-23-07, 05:29 PM

Ducimus

04-23-07, 06:01 PM

Unless something changed in patch 1.2 and i didn't get the memo:

Tweaker sim value:MBT Flood rate
speed at which your main ballast tanks flood with water. The number used in SH4 is to achieve a faster dive ALOT higher then in SH3, and i do not know why.

Tweaker zon value: Crash depth
Value that specifies when a sub starts taking pressure damage. Value listed is neither metric or imperial. I don't know how the game derives this number, i only know said value converts into a specific depth in game.

Tweaker zon value : Crash speed
Speed at which pressure damage is applied to the players sub.

Diving in general:
First dive always takes the longest. As the boat is flooding.

A second dive after the initial dive goes quick since residual flooding remains. This state lasts about a couple hours game time.

Surface speed, doesnt appear to effect dive time in the same mannor as in SH3.

Mraah

04-23-07, 06:43 PM

Diving in general:
First dive always takes the longest. As the boat is flooding.

A second dive after the initial dive goes quick since residual flooding remains. This state lasts about a couple hours game time.

Surface speed, doesnt appear to effect dive time in the same mannor as in SH3.

Gotcha ... I did observe the above.

I do have another question ....:hmm: .
I just did a new search of the SIM file , do you have this for your flooding tweak?

[4]
DropDownName=Flooding
search,ManBT_flood_speed,1,single,>2,ManBT_flood_speed
search,Ballast,1,integer,>2,Ballast
search,DiveBT_flood_speed,1,single,>2,DiveBT_flood_speed

Warning : I just found the ballast, might not be anything ... byte,integer, and long show 22 value ... others show garbage.

DiveBT_flood_speed = 9000

letterboy1

04-24-07, 02:49 AM

I absolutely love the SJ radar parts of this mod :ping: . It's like having two radars for the price of one . . . and I can turn them on and off at will (I did, several times).:rock:

TopCat

04-24-07, 05:29 AM

Hi Ducimus

Great Job! Your solution to the Radar problem is great. Yet I hope they will fix that some day.

Cheers
T.C.

Steeltrap

04-24-07, 08:17 AM

Ducimus, the interesting thing is I did my tests STARTING from periscope depth. There is no logical reason for the dive rates not to be proportional to your spped in knots - it's a simple function of dive angle, thus is linear with speed. i.e. at 6kts you travel twice the distance per second as at 3kts so, for any given dive angle, you will change your depth twice as quickly. These boats largely relied on forward motion and planes for depth changes. An emergency stunt like flooding safety was something done as a last resort as it made susbsequent depth changes, especially surfacing, more difficult, using considerable amounts of high-pressure air.

Look at the figures I got at various speeds - they are basically the same for the given 50' intervals I tested.

The other thing is that some of the ranges take a lot longer than others. Again, at a given dive angle, this doesn't make sense.

I suspect it has some sort of fixed value for changing depths depending on the depth in question. As is stands you gain nothing by accelerating as you dive from P depth just as quickly at 3kts as you do at 7kts.

Cheers

TopCat

04-24-07, 08:58 AM

Hi Ducimus, me again! :arrgh!:
I've tested your updated mod, especially the radar.
I've tried one career and two single missions and I noticed everywhere, that the "sweep once" button does not work any more. If you push the button when radar is switched off, it turns on radar and it stays turned on.

I suggest not to fix that but to entirely eliminiate the single sweep button, because it is actually of no use as you're rardar man is never able to report any contact by doing a single sweep. Most of the times it takes a lot of sweeps until your radar man makes a report. And when you're at the radar station by yourself, the button is not necessary.

Greets
TC

Ducimus

04-24-07, 11:31 AM

I suspect it has some sort of fixed value for changing depths depending on the depth in question. As is stands you gain nothing by accelerating as you dive from P depth just as quickly at 3kts as you do at 7kts.

Cheers

You know, come to think of it, this makes sense based on what ive seen. I always thought the time to get deep in depth was a little... wierd.

Hi Ducimus, me again! :arrgh!:
I've tested your updated mod, especially the radar.
I've tried one career and two single missions and I noticed everywhere, that the "sweep once" button does not work any more. If you push the button when radar is switched off, it turns on radar and it stays turned on.

I suggest not to fix that but to entirely eliminiate the single sweep button, because it is actually of no use as you're rardar man is never able to report any contact by doing a single sweep. Most of the times it takes a lot of sweeps until your radar man makes a report. And when you're at the radar station by yourself, the button is not necessary.

Greets
TC

:hmm: I suppose ill look at it later. Honestly ive never noticed because i never use the single sweep button. With the radar hotkeyed to the R key, i just tap the key, and never bother with the ordersbar at all. :88) But thats just me. Honestly i never thought the single sweep worked to begin with. *shrug*

TopCat

04-24-07, 11:48 AM

Cheers mate. No need to hurry at all. :p

Just a suggestion for your next version that may come some time...

Ducimus

04-24-07, 11:56 AM

jean74

04-24-07, 12:08 PM

A very great work !!! Another time THANK YOU VERY MUCH DUCIMUS :yep: !!!

Just for information and after tests : if you want a thermal layer signal reduction to 20% you need put the value 1.25 (1/1.25 = 0.8), no reduction = 1 (1/1 = 1), reduction to 31% = 1.44 (1/1.44 = 0.69) etc...
I hope that will help you :roll:

Sorry for my English language

Bye

Jean
French Sailor

TopCat

04-24-07, 12:23 PM

I still hope a solution for the SD radar is found. I honestly don't like having to come up with some adhoc workaround, but the SD radar spamming me with surface contacts when near a port was driving me absolutley nuts.

Yeah! I follow the radar thread very close and it makes me think more and more that the SD bug cannot be fixed by a mod, unfortunately. I hope it will be patched soon - or as I suggested before in a different thread, ubi delivers a hotfix for that, because I consider this bug really gamebreaking.:ping:

Ducimus

04-24-07, 11:51 PM

I have to ask,

To anyone using this mod pack i have a question:
Regarding the AI adjustments ive made, what is your opinion of it?

Still too easy?
In the ballpark, but needs a bit more fine tuning?
Too hard?
No effect on your gameplay?

If you feel it needs more fine tuning, in what areas?
Visual detection?
Hydrophone detection?
Active Sonar detection?

CCIP

04-25-07, 12:10 PM

(it's ironic you ask now, because I just wanted to drop by the thread and give a shout-out about the sensors anyway)

I slightly tweaked your adjustments (just small bits in sim/sensors.cfg), but all in all - wanted to give a total thumbs up to your sensor solution. It's the main part of FTT that I use and totally enjoy. Seems to have hit an excellent balance!

I don't really get damaged, in part thanks to your reduced-power depth charges; but the good thing is that 1) I almost always get detected and chased around - not for too long, not for too little; 2) I'm forced to respond to enemy depth charging - if I pull evasive manuevers correctly and listen carefully, I'm safe; if I let my judgements slip, I get punished.

All in all, for example in my current S-class career, I have not been damaged at all in 3 patrols; on the other hand I had at least two chases every patrol where I was forced to go deep and manuever heavily for at least 1 hour. The thermal effect seems to work really well - sonar still goes through it, but there's a notable difference in how well.

It's easy to be detected by sonar; I've never yet managed to get into a convoy undetected by just cruising under the escorts - they'll get you on sonar. You either have to go deep into the thermal layer, or plan your approach so that you don't fall under their sonar beam. Which seems pretty cool, especially considering that - as I heard - Japanese escorts tended to ping constantly to check for enemy subs.

All in all, a real :up:
So far this mod is the best for underwater sensors, IMHO. It is relatively easy to avoid being killed, but it makes you pay for any errors or slips.

Visual I'm not happy with, but a lot happier than stock. Visual I won't be entirely happy with until we have something akin to NYGM's solution for it (and I mean this especially in terms of night surface attacks), but I'm sure that's a pretty complicated task.

Ducimus

04-25-07, 01:44 PM

Ahh feedback. Thanks :D

Sounds like sonar is fine.

Depth charges, do i need to open them up a bit more, or they fine as is?

Hydrophones.? I was contemplating dropping the thermal layer variable from 2 to 1.75 on that. (bout to run a career game with said settings infact) Your thoughts?

Visual, i feel needs more work too. Only minor tweak im thinking about right now is lowering the speed factor form 9 to 8. After that i might lower the surface factor OR the wave factor. Not sure yet.

Mraah

04-25-07, 05:13 PM

Did some testing with the prop_fact_dive_plane_F value .... check this out ... at periscope depth, requested to surface, moments later I porpoised out, then shot back into sea tail first ....

When Prop_Fact_Dive_Plane_F = 8
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s300/raabmraah/SH4Img25-4-2007_0.jpg

Ducimus

04-25-07, 05:57 PM

If i didnt know better, i'd swear you have Bernard in your diesal room :88)

Mraah

04-25-07, 06:56 PM

I suspect it has some sort of fixed value for changing depths depending on the depth in question. As is stands you gain nothing by accelerating as you dive from P depth just as quickly at 3kts as you do at 7kts.

I tested that ... by increasing the value of the prop_fact_dive_plane_F (bow plane) I was able to shave off 1 second of time per 10 meters traveled while at submerged flank speed (gato 9kts). The default value of 0 had a change like 6 sec/ 10 m. With that note, it basically couldn't get any better (values between 0.95 and 2 seem to max it out) since that "fixed" value is keeping the sub at constant rate.

My thoughts on the "fixed" unknown value go to buoyancy. I haven't tested this but let me explain my idea based on reading about buoyancy and stability ...

Quote from THE FLEET TYPE SUBMARINE book :

Buoyancy, considered in connection with submarines, is the upward force exerted on an immersed or floating body by the supporting fluid. This conception of the term conveys the idea that "volume", alone, determines buoyancy, and that the upward force exerted on the immersed or floating body equals the weight of the fluid which it displaces

We all knew that ... but, basically a rock will sink faster than a lighter object of the same shape (editted, removed mass)... right? (again, I've been know to be wrong) :oops: .

So, if you look at the values in the subs *.sim file you'll see this for the Gato :

mass = 0
displacementSurfaced = 1520
displacementSubmerged = 2460

Compare with the Shiratsuyu DD or any surface vessel in the game :

mass = 1685 (shiratsuyu)
displacementSurfaced = 0
displacementSubmerged = 0

Obviously the game doesn't care about the DD's displacement, but I'm wondering if we make the sub "heavier" by changing the mass OR by changing the submerged displacement, whether or not the sub will sink faster.

This can be a good/bad situation ...If it does work, we can dive faster :up: but we won't be able to surface quickly :down: , unless we use compressed air (which by the way, IMO, isn't modeled right since we use the air to blow out the negative tank and the other tanks during a normal submerged operation, again - commmon knowledge for seasoned skippers here).

Another quote from the book, about Neutral Buoyancy ...

Theorectically, a submarine is designed with it's main ballast tanks of such volume that when they are flooded, the ship is in the state of neutral buoyancy. Negative buoyancy is gained by flooding the negative tank

We are stuck with a basic game routine which doesn't model all the tanks and such. Perhaps there is no way to fix it, but hey, what's a skipper to do but to try!

Ducimus

04-25-07, 07:10 PM

The mass variable was played with by the GWX team in SH3. As i recall, for a sub to have a positve boyancy effect, its mass had to be approximatly1 less then its displacement. If the mass exceeds the displacement, it sinks. Even while on the surface.

The result of using mass to give a positve effect is that the boat will broach if standing still, or not moving at a given rate to maintain depth. Use mass thats much less then the displacment, and the boat can't dive. And again, using mass greater then its displacement, it sinks like a stone.

Mraah

04-25-07, 07:26 PM

One other possibility to increase the subs dive/surface rate when a sub speed is greater than 0 kt would be moving the bow plane (numerically not 3D physically) closer to the center of buoyancy, and applying a value of 1 or 2 to the pro_fact.

The location of the planes in reference to the center of buoyancy, ie the arm length, on the Perch (real world):

Stern = 140 ft (primary effect - angle of boat)
Bow = 114 ft (primary effect - depth)

The only value I quickly see changing in the SIM file is called fr_ratio. I don't know what this is but is falls under the gc_height which might be the center of gravity height, I dunno. So, fr_ratio might be the longitudinal location from gc. I noticed that most (I say most because I haven't checked all) of the ships in SH4 have a fr_ratio of 0.5 . I can say, I've changed the fr_ratio for aircraft to a negative value and it immediatly crashes upon loading it :huh: . As a matter of fact, increasing it made the planes crash as well after they dove on me, and I never played with it since. One of those "whats this do" type of check.

Blah blah , blah blah. I'm all talk but no action or knowledge behind my babbling! :lol:

Mraah

04-25-07, 07:38 PM

Ducimus

04-25-07, 07:40 PM

Hehhe i will admit i took the easy way out by upping the MBT_floodrate.

edit:
>>I need to get back to playing and leave the tweaks up to the pros.

No, don't do that. Keep experimenting if you want. Thats how new stuff is discovered. Besides, most of the "pro's" are permanent fixtures in Ubootland, so they're arent as many "pro's" working on SH4. (and Im a rank amature, as any "pro" will tell you :D )

Mraah

04-25-07, 08:50 PM

No, don't do that. Keep experimenting if you want.

I just posted a new thread on something completely different (I hate opening up new files .... :hmm: ) ... it's getting me into trouble.

I figured I'd ask first before doing ...

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=113228

Mraah

04-25-07, 09:34 PM

Ok, back to this thread and staying on topic here ....

Ducimus,

I'm going to see if there's a link for the Radar ON/OFF switch that can be directed to the SD. Am I right by saying your "R" keyboard command back in your previous versions didn't turn off the SD?

Looking at the SNS and UPC files makes me wonder if the Metox can be installed since they show radar warning entries. I know you did something in your tests but I don't know if you considered the SNS file. As a matter of fact, looking at the revelant SNS for the Gato show's the radar warning as such :

;Radar Warning
[Sensor 13]
NodeName=C01
LinkName=NULL
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19451231

Perhaps the LinkName needs to point to the NSS_EarlySD and the sensor either modded to a metox (type=4) or left alone, and Sensor #13 needs to be added or activated on the sub ... somehow, maybe related to NodeName, dunno.

Holler at me if you've "been there, done that" :D .

Mraah

04-25-07, 09:47 PM

Ducimus,

Regarding the RPM's being too high in your other post and replying to whether the escorts are good or bad .... if the RPM values are higher than normal could this data be used by the DD's passive sensors to detect us?

Off topic about RPM ... If you jump into a Gato, head to the control room and look over the helmsman's shoulder, just below his chin are the RPM gauges. They peg out at any setting from Standard and above. Either the gauge needs replacing or the rpm's need lowering, eh?

The funny stuff you see when you patrol after a week!!! :doh:

Ducimus

04-25-07, 10:03 PM

>>Holler at me if you've "been there, done that"

Yup. Been there, done that.

>> Diesal RPMS. (irrelvant in terms of AI detection)
I was noting that they are lower when compared to SH3 RPM values. Probably correct if we were dealing with 4 seperate (smaller) engines then the two jumbo's that the germans would run, but if the game is in action, still only emulating 2 engines in the simlation, then the RPMs could probably be upped.

>> RPM Dials: (one for each engine)
Out of scale, but they do correspond to the RPM values in the sim file. Speaking of interior dials, most of them don't work. :roll: Nothing new with that unfortunatly.

Mraah

04-25-07, 10:04 PM

If i didnt know better, i'd swear you have Bernard in your diesal room :88)

Haha. I don't know who Bernard is but I gather he's a big fellow, huh?

Thankfully, no one was injured during the test run but my crew has requested a transfer to a less dangerous post along the coast of Honshu!!!

CCIP

04-26-07, 01:01 AM

Depth charges, do i need to open them up a bit more, or they fine as is?

You have them set at 10m max radius right?

Eh, I'd spread them out a little. One idea would be to bring them back to 20m radius, but at the same time bring the efficiency down. Else I think even a somewhat larger radius would be fine - 15m or something like that - it's just that the enemy has fairly narrow drop patterns for the most part, and you have to be really careless to fall inside that 10m radius.

Hydrophones.? I was contemplating dropping the thermal layer variable from 2 to 1.75 on that. (bout to run a career game with said settings infact) Your thoughts?

That would be okay I guess. Generally I'm careful with silent running and have no probelm keeping quiet. It's the active sonar that concerns me more below thermal, and as far as that - to me it seems pretty much perfect as it is.

Ducimus

04-26-07, 01:45 AM

>>You have them set at 10m max radius right?

14 :88)

Thanks for the input. I appreciate it.

-----------

In other news, i just got the Gar class to work on its own files, so it can have its own set of specifications to differentiate it from the Tambor. Ive been trying to find the differences between the two, and at least a couple sources ive found on the net say it had more fuel then the tambor. Some cite a bit faster surface speed, and others cite an 11 kt submerged top speed (yeah right, like i beleive THAT ).

So i think in the next mod revision, im going to put the Gato back to its original avialablity date, and give the Gar a bit more fuel, and maybe up its crush depth so its a wee bit better then a tambor, but still less then a gato.

Theoritically, you could do what i just did for the other S class boat as well.

bruschi sauro

04-26-07, 03:04 AM

This mod work very fine:rock:
thank mate

Ducimus

04-26-07, 03:39 AM

Well, version 2.4 is almost done. A couple tweaks in the campign i want to look at, but might pass on.

2.4 is looking to have the following:

- increase in torpedo malfunctions. Not uber realistic levels, but an increase none the less, as torpedos are entirely too reliable early war.

- Ive gone back and retouched the flooding time on shipping. Now StockFloodingTime * 3. From what ive tested so far, it's just about right, i like it.

-AI tweakings. AI_VIsual Speed factor reduced from 9 to 8. ( I also may, or may not reduce the thermal layer effect for hydrophones from 2 to 1.75, unsure yet)

- Major retouching on subs.
Old(stock) endurance:
Porpoise = 14,300 @ 10
Salmon = 15,000 @ 10
Sargo = 15,000 @ 10
Tambor = 15,000 @ 10
Gar = 15,000 @ 10
Gato = 15,000 @ 10
Balo = 15,000 @ 10

New Endurance:
Porpoise = 12,000 @ 10
Salmon = 12,000 @ 10
Sargo = 13,450 @ 10
Tambor = 14,000 @ 10
Gar = 15,000 @ 10
Gato = 15,000 @ 10
Balo = 15,000 @ 10

- Gar changes:
- crash depth from 152(tambor) to 171. By comparsion a gato is 190.
- HPs changed from 320(tambor) to 460. By comparision a gato is 600.
- Max speed changed from 20.4(tambor) to 21 (Gato)
- Gar class uses midwar conning tower without the periscope shear paneling (gato midwar).

- With the gar changes, i put the Gato back to its stock/default/historical availabilty date in 4/42. Hhowever you can still transfer a gato to the asiatic fleet in 6/42. (stock transfer date sometime in 43)

- Other changes. Im getting rid of closure dates on boats, so they last tell end of war. That way your not forced to retire a career game. I suspect this will only work for NEW career games. I do not know if it will work for existing ones.

TopCat

04-26-07, 05:44 AM

Cool! Thx Ducimus, I can't await the new version ...

Plz fogive my stupid question: What do these endurance-values refer to? What do your changes affect?

According to your AI-Balance you asked about I meanwhile played a 1941-Campaign and it seems the AI subhunters are just right, not too easy and not too hard. Yet I hope it will become harder later as there should be more experienced crews with better equipment. Still have to get there ...

As far as I noticed, you reduced the damage the waterbombs are causing. Don't know how realistic it is now. Yesterday a destroyer made a hit with two or three waterbombs (obeserved it with the ext cam) to my S-18. The boat was heavily shaken but I only had a very small damage at the deck gun. Could it be that the the bombs do to few harm now, the boats are too robust or was I just lucky?

CruiseTorpedo

04-26-07, 09:34 AM

I've ran through 3 patrols with v2.3 now. I've had one fight with a convoy and the AI reacted well. I had to be on alert and I couldnt just run amuck doing suicidal stuff that I could have in the stock game. I like the radar changes but I found if I run high compression durring the day the radar won't pick up planes in time, so I have to tone it down in the day time to 512, after night falls I can bump it back up to 2000 or so if I want. That's just a system issue though, hardly the mod's fault. I think it's working great over all!

The new changes sound good, I especially like the option to keep my original boat through out the war but if I want to upgrade to a better class would I still be able to?

Ducimus

04-26-07, 05:26 PM

>>What do these endurance-values refer to?

Total distance you can travel at a given speed. The faster you go, the less the range, the slower you go the greater the range. (BTW, navigator ingame is never 100% accurate with this). I tend to cruise at about 8 kts to conserve fuel.

>> I hope it will become harder later as there should be more experienced crews with better equipment.

They'll get better as the equipment gets better.

>>you reduced the damage the waterbombs are causing.

I didnt reduce the damage, only the radius that they can apply their damage. Right now it would pretty much take a direct hit within 3-4 meters to put you down. That said im going to increase the max radius another meter or two.

>>if I want to upgrade to a better class would I still be able to?

Should be able to. I don't think the adustments im making will have any effect on when a new command is offered.

TopCat

04-27-07, 01:52 AM

Thx for your answers Ducimus :) :up:
Hope your new version will be ready soon.:arrgh!:

Ducimus

04-27-07, 02:26 AM

Thx for your answers Ducimus :) :up:
Hope your new version will be ready soon.:arrgh!:

Next couple days. Maybe tommrow night.

Im taking a bit longer on something, but its important.

Ive isolated and locked down why people are getting force retirments. Im pretty sure ive fixed that. (simple fix really). But im also working on getting rid of repeating patrol assigments. That annoys me to no end doing 6 patrols to the same bloody area.

The problem with the patrol assigments is this:

Each boat has like 8 or so assigments. They're partially spaced out by year with a date the assigment can be grabbed by the game, and a date when it exits and ceases to be assigned. Not all of these 8 assigments are avialable right away. Some as late as 44. (Probably to make them coincide with a sea battle, but ill worry about that later. ) compounding the problem is you have 1 or 2 assigments that have a null entry and exit date. Hence if you leave out of pearl, your always going to the same places around japan.

My solution is this: Instead of 8 assigments, ive created 22. with an entry and exit date so the assignment lasts for only 2 months. After the 2 months, the game is forced to go down the list in chronological order and grab the next patrol assigment.

So far ive completed this for all the boats out of pearl harbor. I basically created a template, and then applied that template to the Porpoise, tambor, gato, gar, and balaoa.

All i have to do now.. is flesh out the asiatic fleet and maybe brisbane :roll:

The flotilla file in this mod is going to be about 3 times the size it once was, which makes the stock one look all that much more pityful. Given the work im putting into this, ive done away with any early transfer stuff and left dates boats can be transfered at stock values, which im assuming is historically correct.

CruiseTorpedo

04-27-07, 09:56 AM

That sounds good, I had two missions in a row where I had to drop off a guy on to Japan at the same place. Guess the first guy died so it made complete sense to drop a second one in the exact same area right away lol

Barkhorn1x

04-27-07, 12:23 PM

Sounds great Ducimus.

AirborneTD

04-27-07, 12:53 PM

Ducimus, your F to T mod is awesome. Looking forward to more early torpedo failures.

Galanti

04-27-07, 01:19 PM

Ive isolated and locked down why people are getting force retirments. Im pretty sure ive fixed that. (simple fix really).

Was it changing to availability of the S-Class in Flotillas.cfg to something much later than April 15, 1942, by any chance? If not, is it something I will able to apply to a saved career?

AirborneTD

04-27-07, 02:31 PM

Regarding the "Improved Sound for AA Guns". With my game and computer, the AA guns sound horrible. Not sure why but any clue what I can do to change or tone it down a bit? The deck gun sounds fine--awesome actually.

This would have to be my only (albeit minor) complaint with this excellent mod.

Ducimus

04-27-07, 02:40 PM

Ducimus, your F to T mod is awesome. Looking forward to more early torpedo failures.

Well, dont expect a whole lot. Im honestly not spending alot of time testing torpedo falues. Theres a thread devoted to that. I made a decision that stock sucked, but i didnt want to use a work in progress either.Whats more ive sort of set a deadline for myself. So i arbitrarly upped certain parameters by mulitplying them by 2 to keep them in scale. The base number was really low, and so far with testing i have done, its a safe and sane increase.

I'd like to up the numbers even farther, (which would still be less then the variables used by " [WIP] Dud Torpedoes Hardcore " , but im afraid of adverse, heavy handed resuslts without more testing. Testing which i dont have the time for. Bottom line is, i increased it, but conservativly to be on the safe side.

Ive isolated and locked down why people are getting force retirments. Im pretty sure ive fixed that. (simple fix really).

Was it changing to availability of the S-Class in Flotillas.cfg to something much later than April 15, 1942, by any chance?

Yup. Just assign NULL to the exit date for your boat type, and it will never retire.

Regarding the "Improved Sound for AA Guns". With my game and computer, the AA guns sound horrible. Not sure why but any clue what I can do to change or tone it down a bit? The deck gun sounds fine--awesome actually.

This would have to be my only (albeit minor) complaint with this excellent mod.

Ive honestly thought about removing sounds from thsi mod pack altogether, but right now im keeping them in. Ill try and remember to lower the volume on the AA gun sounds sometime tongiht.

Speaking of tonight. I hope to have this mod packed up and published LATE tonight. I work swing shfit, and have to bolt out the door right now as a matter of fact, but im going to try and have a new thread posted tonight, and will have a moderator close this thread down. This ones run its course, and given some of the changes, new version needs its own thread. I suspect baring any bug related issues, this, ver 2.4 will be the last one before patch 1.3.

When patch 1.3 hits, im gonna have hell making FTT compatable again, its really grown in size on me.

JavierLQ

04-29-07, 06:32 PM

Hi all,

I am pretty new to the game, so I have a quick question:

I use the Generic Mod enabler to add the few mods I have seen that I would like into the game. I currently only had the SH4 Realistic Battery life Mod installed, and then tried to add your mod. I got a message about the battery mod already changed some of the files that your mod was trying to access, and so I canceled it.

My question is, are the two mods compatable? If they are, does it matter which one I enable first (do I do batter mod first or yours first?)?

Thanks!

CruiseTorpedo

04-30-07, 04:57 PM

I believe (pretty sure) that the battery mod is included in Ducimus's mod, or at least a version he came up with on his own. With just FLT installed I can run 4knots submerged for 12 hours or so without charging batteries.

Ducimus

04-30-07, 05:30 PM

This thread and the FTT version advertised herein is obsolete.

Current version and current thread here:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=113418