[TEC] Pack3D and SH4...

[GuillermoZS]

Hi, I´m starting to learn how to modify/create ships and 3d objects for SH4.

OK, I´m making some tests on the Yamato, I exported the model from the .dat file using Pack3D, imported the .obj in 3DSMax and created a simple cilinder to attach to the bow of the original mesh (just for testing purposes). So, I applied the Yamato material to the cilinder and attached it to the original mesh. I´m not trying to modify the texture, it´s just a geometry test. Ok, then I exported the modified .obj and repacked it to the original .dat via Pack3d.

I created a mission with the Yamato in front of my sub and when starting it, at first, everything seems to be fine (the modified mesh is correct and the texture seems to be OK), but as soon as I approach the camera to the Yamato (F11) it just turns into this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/GuillermoZS/YamatoColor.jpg

It happens when I approach the camera (arrownd 500m more or less) and then stays like this even if I take the camera back...

Also I noticed a difference between the default and the modified version before the texture turns into that alien thing:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/GuillermoZS/YamatoCompare.jpg

As you can see the modified version is much more "clean" or "white". I think the problem here is that the modified version is not loading properly the Specular map (the "..._O01.dds)

Any thoughts on how to solve this?


Thanks a lot!

[Prof]

No fixes I'm afraid, but you've got more problems than the ones you mention...the flag is now 'hanging' upside down and look at your rear gun turrets!

I had the flag/turret problems when I tried to mod the Yamato.dat file and had no fix for it :(

[GuillermoZS]

Hi, yeah, you´re right, I didn´t notice those problems... the back turret is missed :o
mmm... maybe it´s flipped, like the flag.... that can be the cause....

[Mush Martin]

The flag flip is a very common result in pack3d
but I havent seen it do that as such

[GuillermoZS]

Here is a closeup of the affected area:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/GuillermoZS/TextFound.jpg

Both back turrets and the flag are upside down. I have also found where that funky alien texture comes from, it´s "Caustics_new.dds" texture. It seems that when I get close to the ship the program tries to generate caustic and, instead of that, changes both color-caustics textures :o

Just for fun I shot some fishes to the ship and look what happened:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/GuillermoZS/TexHit.jpg

as soon as the torpedo hit the ship the texture turned into this :o:o:o I think it´s the normal map applied as color map...

Well it seems that Pack3D is no getting well with the new normal/specular/caustics maps...

Is someone else having troubles like these?

[UBOAT234]

I have the same problems....

It is a disaster :down:
Hundred of tests and hundred of failures :down:

I think TMAP section is responsable of this.
I hope in future... Continuous to try...

BEST REGARDS
UBOAT234

[Mush Martin]

As I understand it different versions of pack 3d are better for different
functions, aircraft ships etc. Not my forte yet but maybe a different
version might do better, you need some more expert advice than I can
give.

MM

[UBOAT234]

There is the MAP of damages, I dont understand.
...and 10-1 and 6 chunks is different.

.....?

BEST REGARDS
UBOAT234

[UBOAT234]

Section TMAP does not come imported from pack3d and the file become smaller.

BEST REGARDS
UBOAT234

[GuillermoZS]

As I understand it different versions of pack 3d are better for different
functions, aircraft ships etc. Not my forte yet but maybe a different
version might do better, you need some more expert advice than I can
give.

MM

Yeah, you may be right, I´ll give it a try and post results. Thanks:up:

[Prof]

I seem to remember that the DAT files edited by Pack3D become smaller than the original DAT files, so maybe there are some lines of data being missed out.

I tried most (if not all) of the Pack3D versions and couldn't find one which worked.

Incidentally, I managed to get the flag and turrets the right way up again by modifying their rotational axes, but then the turrets were swiveled as far towards the bow as they could move. Odd!

[down and out]

Version 2 is best so as not to " flip " objects

[GuillermoZS]

Version 2 is best so as not to " flip " objects

Yep, with pack3d v.2 objects do not appear flipped but the texture problem persist...I guess we have keep on trying :damn:

[UBOAT234]

Hi,
Is not a problem of flip...
Pack 3d, any version, alters data in all file, and for the main .obj, it import only to the point TMAP. Change the total amount of byte.

http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i137525_hexfuso008.jpg

In the first, file the .dat file after import .obj.
I the second file, the original...

I search a solution from much time...
I hope to find one solution... But is Hard! :damn:


BEST REGARDS
UBOAT234

[DivingDuck]

Hey there,

pack3d doesn´t alter the data. It depends on your export settings of your 3d programme whether the data match to the smallest detail or not. The TMAP is not part of the *.obj file. And I don´t know whether pack3d would be able to import TMAP data if they were in the *.obj file.

Regards,
DD

[GuillermoZS]

I search a solution from much time...
I hope to find one solution... But is Hard! :damn:

BEST REGARDS
UBOAT234

I know how you feel man, this is driving me nuts too... But it´s possible: a few weeks ago U-5000 did a mod of the Yamato with the Imperial Emblem:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=110477&highlight=yamato

It´s perfect. I downloaded it to analyze what he did but actually I have no idea how he did it... :huh: If he is over here it could be great that he could give us some tips ;)

As for what I´ve doing I think there is a problem with Pack3d and SH4 it seems not to manage the normal/specular/caustics maps correctly when repacking (well, it´s normal since it was designed for SH3 where this maps weren´t used...) But then, I have no idea how U-5000 did it...:damn:

[UBOAT234]

Hi DD,

I have try:
1) export 3d obj with Pack3d.
2) I have imported the same object, that I have exported, without to touch or save with software of 3d design. The original file exported, and it causes many changes and the result is that one in the previous image.

It import only to point TMAP. But it changes also other data...

...and I dont have a solution... :oops:

BEST REGARDS
UBOAT234

[UBOAT234]

I search a solution from much time...
I hope to find one solution... But is Hard! :damn:

BEST REGARDS
UBOAT234
I know how you feel man, this is driving me nuts too... But it´s possible: a few weeks ago U-5000 did a mod of the Yamato with the Imperial Emblem:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=110477&highlight=yamato

It´s perfect. I downloaded it to analyze what he did but actually I have no idea how he did it... :huh: If he is over here it could be great that he could give us some tips ;)

As for what I´ve doing I think there is a problem with Pack3d and SH4 it seems not to manage the normal/specular/caustics maps correctly when repacking (well, it´s normal since it was designed for SH3 where this maps weren´t used...) But then, I have no idea how U-5000 did it...:damn:

I have this file for Yamato, but have the same problem. This dat is more small compared with the original... And have the same problem. It CTD my SH4... :rock:

BEST REGARDS
UBOAT234

[DivingDuck]

Hi UBOAT,
Hi DD,

I have try:
1) export 3d obj with Pack3d.
2) I have imported the same object, that I have exported, without to touch or save with software of 3d design. The original file exported, and it causes many changes and the result is that one in the previous image.

It import only to point TMAP. But it changes also other data...

...and I dont have a solution... :oops:

BEST REGARDS
UBOAT234 Pack3d doesn´t export this TMAP section. When trying to import your (original/altered) file back to the *.dat you have to do this by hex too. That´s how I did it with all the uboat interior files while working on open hatch.
Import to a dummy.dat file. Open the file and search for the object data, just the vertex coords. Triangle coords and texture coords don´t need to be touched. Copy these data and paste them before the TMAP section. Keep in mind that triangle and texture coords are located between vertex and TMAP. After all check/alter the size information for the data block.

I´m not at home. That´s why I can´t give more detailed info. Hope to be back at my desktop pc tomorrow noon.

Regards,
DD

[UBOAT234]

Many thanks DD :sunny:

BEST REGARDS
UBOAT234

[GuillermoZS]

I search a solution from much time...
I hope to find one solution... But is Hard! :damn:

BEST REGARDS
UBOAT234
I know how you feel man, this is driving me nuts too... But it´s possible: a few weeks ago U-5000 did a mod of the Yamato with the Imperial Emblem:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=110477&highlight=yamato

It´s perfect. I downloaded it to analyze what he did but actually I have no idea how he did it... :huh: If he is over here it could be great that he could give us some tips ;)

As for what I´ve doing I think there is a problem with Pack3d and SH4 it seems not to manage the normal/specular/caustics maps correctly when repacking (well, it´s normal since it was designed for SH3 where this maps weren´t used...) But then, I have no idea how U-5000 did it...:damn:
I have this file for Yamato, but have the same problem. This dat is more small compared with the original... And have the same problem. It CTD my SH4... :rock:

BEST REGARDS
UBOAT234

You are completelly right man, :lol: I just opened in 3ds max and, don´t know why, I didn´t tested it in the game before... :damn: My comp doesn´t crash but it looks just like the one I posted at the start of this topic...

I´m trying now with other ships, let´s see what happens :hmm:

[Madox58]

The SH4 ships use external skins.
Replace the chunks that call the outside skin and place the skins IN the dat.
Even in SH3, external skins cause problems for Pack3d.
I now do this as standard practice and have FAR fewer problems.
Once work is done, re-hex the dat to call outside skins.

[GuillermoZS]

I´m not at home. That´s why I can´t give more detailed info. Hope to be back at my desktop pc tomorrow noon.

Regards,
DD

Really looking forward for it DD :up:

[UBOAT234]

The SH4 ships use external skins.
Replace the chunks that call the outside skin and place the skins IN the dat.
Even in SH3, external skins cause problems for Pack3d.
I now do this as standard practice and have FAR fewer problems.
Once work is done, re-hex the dat to call outside skins.
Ok P,
between these two cfg#TXR_ I think?

http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i137626_hexfuso009.jpg

BEST REGARDS
UBOAT234

[Madox58]

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/SH4/Remove.jpg

This is what has to go.
(Be sure to keep this chunk as we put it back after all work is done)

I'll get part 2 up shortly showing what to put in it's place.

[Madox58]

Ok, open up NBB_Rodney from SH3 in Pack3d and a hex editor.

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/SH4/Install_1.jpg

Extract the above with the hex editor and save it to a file.
Note the ID's!!

Now extract this area with the hex editor

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/SH4/Install_2.jpg



We want to attach this to the end of the first block we extracted.
Note the IDs!!!


Change the ID's to match the ID's from part 1 and place it in the SH4 dat.
EXACTLY where we took out the multi skin stuff.

Reopen the SH4 dat in Pack3d.
If you did it right, it will open and show the new info and your almost done!!!

Now import the skin for the ship and go to work!!

Once done, reverse the process.

The whole swap takes about 5 minutes.
:up:

[UBOAT234]

Hi,

Have completly remapped the sh3 NPPL, for sh4 with damage .obj and only one tex (the work not ended), without TMAP section. And it work fine.

http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/t139223_nppl001.jpg (http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i139223_nppl001.jpg)http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/t139226_nppl003.jpg (http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i139226_nppl003.jpg)http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/t139227_nppl002.jpg (http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i139227_nppl002.jpg)

Have tried with unit of sh4 but failure all my thousand hex :hmm:
The problem is the completly remap of TMAP section?
Have try to duplicate a face and this face work fine, the original face is a disaster!

For fix the error in import .obj from pack3d, I have cancel some cfg#txr to .mtl file.
Here original extracted from Pack3d:
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i139221_fix002.jpg

Here the edited:
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i139222_fix001.jpg

Anyone have other info for rework/remap of the main hull, of unit sh4?


BEST REGARDS
UBOAT234

[UBOAT234]

...
I think only the solution of privateer, is right.

Have try to import an .obj, after the insert of image?

BEST REGARDS
UBOAT234

[GuillermoZS]

Outstanding work :up:
I have no idea about HEX editing, that´s why I didn´t continue my efforts on importing ships... when you are ready, and if you have time, could you please post a tutorial/explanation on how to solve the textures issue? Or one about HEX editing?

Thanks and great work!

[UBOAT234]

Some information for TMAP, I think the big problem for rework unit.

To store information on texture maps EI uses a TMAP chunk. TMAP chunks are associated with an object. An object has one TMAP chunk for every texture that is applied to it. This chunk contains information about the texture image such as the dimensions of the bitmap image (this can be troublesome for the exporter as it simply cannot reference a texture map and output its name; rather, it must load the image header for the file from disk to determine its dimensions so that the exporter can store that information in the TMAP chunk). The TMAP chunk also stores the type of projection to use when it is being mapped onto the object. This seems like a very strange thing. Another chunk (TMEI) stores information on what the projection looks like but doesn't store the type of projection it represents! This is why the TMAP appears before the TMEI in the file. The TMAP chunk also includes information about the images bounding box.

If you do not import this chunk, you must delete the secondary image stored in folder unit: O01 and N01, but it work without MIPMAP render.
Is not the best solution ;)

BEST REGARDS
UBOAT234

[UBOAT234]

Hi,

Many that have tried to clone, and rework the 3d .obj, extracted with Pack3d or Datextractor, (...I am one of this) in first it has had this problem:

http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i145974_image005.jpg


After an analysis, I have seen, in hex, some error.
Only with Pack3d I have worked and it is the cause.
The solution is rework in hex and transfer the data, of the 3d object, in a good file .dat, without error. Where it maintains also the chunk TMAP.

But the problem now is another.
This is not a good result
Here the result:

http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i145984_wrong001.jpg


In second time I have tried thousands experiments and in one of these I have cancelled, from the folder of unit, the image: O01.dds.
The result has been that the lights and the shadows are disappeared, but the object is correct:

http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i146034_wrong004.jpg
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i146079_wrong005.jpg


In this case, I have added some face of the original object, and it work fine, (without light and shadows)

http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i146062_fixcr001.jpg


The Texture Map of the Light Texture it is mistaken or it does not exist.
I think... the technique of Bump Map and the Light Texture require an Map
I cannot demonstrate this, but the search of information, has arrived here.
Another problem is insert this information in the .obj Wavefront file and import this in .dat file.
Many questions that, in this moment do not have answers.

If anyone have some information for this, it can post here :up:


BEST REGARDS
UBOAT234

[UBOAT234]

Hi,

In these days, one student university has explained me something that is making a examination with 3d studio.

The Light map is one of more high complex sources during the rendering.
In order to reduce the times of calculation, especially in the creation of animations or applications in real time, and possible to precalculate the lighting system, to save it on texture.
The mechanism, also producing close to the real, turns out particularly effective for the luminous effects that according to do not vary the position of the observer (surrounding light and lambertiana reflection).
It is spoken about Light Map, when the texture come used in order memorize all the luminous phenomena.

For the texture O01.dds, the light map, is necessary make a new texture, because the model is changed (import modify and export).
In 3d Studio exist a function for render this texture.

In next day I study this and I post a tutorial.
For anyone it wanted to try, here there are the photos that it has sent to me, are not much clear, perhaps but someone knows these shielded.
In any case, anyone have some information for try and to explain me :up:

http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i147248_occlusion001.jpg
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i147250_occlusion003.jpg
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i147252_occlusion004.jpg
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i147254_occlusion005.jpg


The solution is in this step.
It write:
Through the commando Rendering - > Rendering on texture, is possible to precalculate the total lighting system caused the Skylight and save it on texture.
It must in the first place, to cancel the creation of permanent materials, and to specify the folder in which the texture they will come saved.
The present objects are selected therefore on the scene, and they join with the push-button You add a object.
Is possible therefore which phenomenon is wanted to be precalculated: in this case one lighting system map.
The dimensions of the texture are specified therefore to create, and deselect the voices Shadows and Direct Light On, in order to generate only containing maps the indirect lighting system.
Continue...


BEST REGARDS
UBOAT234

[Madox58]

Will this be exported along with the object file?
Remains to be seen.
Will Pack3d import this info?
Being as Pack3d was not written to support this,
I doubt it.
I see what is needed.
Now I need to see how we can import this.

[UBOAT234]

Will this be exported along with the object file?
Remains to be seen.
Will Pack3d import this info?
Being as Pack3d was not written to support this,
I doubt it.
I see what is needed.
Now I need to see how we can import this.

You have many reasons, but for me, is one my idea, the model if developed with the application that creates the texture, would have to work.
Here there are some information that you can understand better than me:
http://www.webreference.com/graphics/game3/3.html
Can you try?

I dont have 3d Studio :cry:

BEST REGARDS
UBOAT234

[GuillermoZS]

Hi,

In these days, one student university has explained me something that is making a examination with 3d studio.

The Light map is one of more high complex sources during the rendering.
In order to reduce the times of calculation, especially in the creation of animations or applications in real time, and possible to precalculate the lighting system, to save it on texture.
The mechanism, also producing close to the real, turns out particularly effective for the luminous effects that according to do not vary the position of the observer (surrounding light and lambertiana reflection).
It is spoken about Light Map, when the texture come used in order memorize all the luminous phenomena.

For the texture O01.dds, the light map, is necessary make a new texture, because the model is changed (import modify and export).
In 3d Studio exist a function for render this texture.

In next day I study this and I post a tutorial.
For anyone it wanted to try, here there are the photos that it has sent to me, are not much clear, perhaps but someone knows these shielded.
In any case, anyone have some information for try and to explain me :up:

-----

The solution is in this step.
It write:
Through the commando Rendering - > Rendering on texture, is possible to precalculate the total lighting system caused the Skylight and save it on texture.
It must in the first place, to cancel the creation of permanent materials, and to specify the folder in which the texture they will come saved.
The present objects are selected therefore on the scene, and they join with the push-button You add a object.
Is possible therefore which phenomenon is wanted to be precalculated: in this case one lighting system map.
The dimensions of the texture are specified therefore to create, and deselect the voices Shadows and Direct Light On, in order to generate only containing maps the indirect lighting system.
Continue...


BEST REGARDS
UBOAT234

Hi,

Well, I think there is a misunderstanding here with the terms we are using :D

A light map in 3D is just what you explained very well above, but that is not what the game is using... The game uses an OCCLUSION map, not a LIGHT MAP (that´s where the letter "O" comes from in the file).

People in this forum (even me) uses both words indiferently but there is a BIG difference between them. A LIGHT MAP, as you said, is a texture generated by the computer by "bakeing" all the effects produced by given lights in a scene, this are basically shinings and shadows (to explain it briefly :D)

In the other hand, an OCCLUSION MAP is just a map generated by the computer that just darkens the closed corners of a 3d object to SIMULATE the effect of a global ilumination without using any real lights. It´s just a "simulation" or "fake" and that´s just the difference with the Light Map (where are real lights the ones that generate the map). Here I did a pic so you can understand what an occlusion map is easily:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/GuillermoZS/Occlusion.jpg

So, the game uses an occlusion map (not a light map ;)) with a normal and a color map to generate the shading of the objects in the game.


Anyway your post made me think in something that I hadn´t notice before... Looking at the Occlusion maps of the objects and their respective color maps it´s obvious that the occlusion map is using a different UV map than the color and normal map are using... so we have an .obj with two different UVs for 3 textures.

Now we know that it´s impossible to use Pack3D (in their actual versions) to unpack or repack .dat files for SH4 since the software is designed for SH3... .dat files are much more complex now than in SH3. Look:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/GuillermoZS/SHmaps.jpg

I have no idea how to unpack .dat files without messing all this info (that´s what actual versions of Pack3D are doing) Maybe someone could ask the developers how the H**l did they do to pack/unpack this freaking files? :up:

[UBOAT234]

Hi,

I have tried to rework the Light Map of my "Conte Rosso".
I have Re-Textured and Re-Mapped the main object, the hull with bridge.
I have tried to change, with my software 3d, the model: Duplicate face, add new Face, ecc. and to Remap these, in way standard, as we made before with SH3.
After I have asked the software to create the light-map, and have saved this, with the same name of the original ...*O01.
Without to change nothing, I have exported the model 3d, and import this with Pack3d, in to the .dat file.
In hex have changed some byte.

In this case I have changed only some poligon and the Light-Map, is not true, only the map for some obj. and it is a SUCCESS!:up:
The theory was exact.

This is the original Map *.O01
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i149215_shadows007.jpg

This is the map that I have created *.O01
The map is totally different of the original and not ended. She was only in order to try the mapping.
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i149218_shadows008.jpg

Here the result:
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i149171_shadows001.jpg
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i149211_shadows010.jpg

All the one which I have modified it is in place.
There are some other not mapped, because I dont have mapped this.

There are many things to explain. But before I want to still try with all the objects and to see if it works fine.
After I post all :up:

BEST REGARDS
UBOAT234

[DivingDuck]

Moin,

have been away for a while and it will take time to be up to date with all the new information. The info you both have collected meanwhile are very interesting. But have you noticed already, that the _001.dds´ALPHA channel is completely different from the RGB channels? That means we have to maps in one file. This alpha channel is applied using the same vertex coords as the _T01.dds file, while the RGB channels have their own texture coords. Skwasjer made some good points on that.

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/1457/occlusionalpha001xm5.jpg

This is a small coastal merchant mapped with the _O01.dds´alpha channel only. The RGB channels use the vertex coords stored in the TMAP.

Regards,
DD

[UBOAT234]

Right,
But have news for this in work.
Now I am in my office and I am working. Perhaps this evening I have other good news.

BEST REGARDS
UBOAT234

[UBOAT234]

Hi,

Here the instruction for create the *.O01.dds
http://www.alexmunn.com/html/class_levels_shaders.htm

BEST REGARDS
UBOAT234

[UBOAT234]

A simple tut for import the .obj and separate the railing when you import the file:

1) In first copy/backup, all file .obj extracted from Pack3D, in other folder.
2) Opend the file in a text editor, I use Notepad++ but important is after the work, save with ANSI code.
Search all reference cfg:
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i150606_maya013.jpg

The second reference is usually the Railing
Change this, for ex. add a number, in this case I have added the number "2" to the end:
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i150608_maya012.jpg

In File .mtl delete the chunk dmg and add the same number before to according to material.
Here the original .mtl
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i150611_maya014.jpg

Here the modified:
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i150615_maya015.jpg

Save all file opened.

When import this the new .obj created, you can separate the railing with the command ungrop or when this is opened, select the object with a command: Select object with this material. It depends on the used software, but usually this command is common to all.

Continue...

BEST REGARDS
UBOAT234

[UBOAT234]

In this case with Maya:

Import the .obj, before modified and saved

http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i150657_maya016.jpg

Go to the Hypershade
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i150669_maya017.jpg

Select the second material, Maya have named it with 3, but this is the second, the name is not important.
With right click on the mouse, selects in the menù as soon appeared:
Select Objects With Material
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i150745_maya018.jpg

Now it select the Material and this is the Railing
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i150683_maya019.jpg
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i150684_maya020.jpg

Move the faces selected towards the high
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i150686_maya021.jpg
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i150689_maya022.jpg

But if you select the Railing, it is joined to the main hull
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i150690_maya023.jpg

Now select in the menu Polygons and select Separate
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i150694_maya024.jpg

After the separation process, select all the faces of Railing ad select, in the menu Poligons, Combine
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i150695_maya025.jpg

Now the Railing is one object, separated from the main hull
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i150697_maya027.jpg


Now you can start to produce the Low Poligons for the process of Occlusion Map

Continue...


BEST REGARDS
UBOAT234

[UBOAT234]

The job continues

Now, also other objects are separated from the main hull
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i150703_maya028.jpg

And if you have noticed, there are still of the objects groups.
Well, these are the objects that will come mapped in the Texture. O01


But they have the Vertex with a reference mistaken, different, because they have a reference from Pack3d to the Vertex, from the Texture .T01
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i150717_maya029.jpg

We must create a new Texture .O01, because we have changed the structure, Re-Mapped, Cloned, Add, Duplicate ecc.
Well, the next operation is simple, but to make with attention

Select one of this object
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i150723_maya030.jpg

In the menu Edit Polygons, select Split Vertex
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i150724_maya031.jpg

and after we go to the menu Poligons and select Separate
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i150728_maya032.jpg

Now all the triangles, of the object selected, is separated and have everyone, the vertex right
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i150733_maya033.jpg

If you Re-Combine the triangles, the object have a reference for being mapped, and for create the New Texture Map.
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i150734_maya034.jpg


Continue...


BEST REGARDS
UBOAT234

[UBOAT234]

Basics of how to bake ambient occlusion maps in Maya 8. The process is similar for all versions of Maya but the names will be different...
In Maya there are probably, many ways to make this, but for me, this is much express.

MLB =Mouse Left Button
MMB =Mouse Medium Button
MRB =Mouse Right Button

SHADER NETWORK
Open the hypershade window and from the Maya nodes list and drag with MMB a Surface Shader node to the work area
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i151663_ambientoccben01.jpg

We must modify the Node
Go to the top of the nodes list and change it to MentalRay nodes click with MLB on the "Create Maya Nodes"
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i151686_ambientocc002.jpg

Select textures tab and with MMB drag an 'mib_amb_occlusion' node in to the work area
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i151692_ambientoccben02.jpg

Now connect the 'OutValue' of the Occlusion node to the 'OutColor' of the surface shader. This is the default connection between these 2 nodes so you can do this by simply holding down Ctrl and MMB dragging the occlusion node over the shader node
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i151696_ambientoccben03.jpg
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i151711_ambientocc003.jpg


Continue...

[UBOAT234]

Now we setup the scene
In order to get good results from Ambient Occlusion the scene environment must be white. To do this open the Outliner window and select the Persp camera. In the attribute editor under the Environment tab slide the Background Color to 100% white
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i151698_ambientoccben04.jpg
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i151716_ambientocc004.jpg
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i151717_ambientocc006.jpg

Now open the Render Globals window and select MentalRay as your renderer and Production as the quality preset. Now change the multi-pixel filter to "Lanczos". (this will automatically change your Quality preset to 'Custom' like in the picture)
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i151700_ambientoccben05.jpg

Close the render Globals window and assign the 'Surface Shader' you have setup to your model. It should turn the model completely black.
The time for apply the texture, depend of the configuration of the your Workstation
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i151726_ambientocc007.jpg
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i151728_ambientocc008.jpg
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i151733_ambientocc009.jpg
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i151734_ambientocc010.jpg
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i151735_ambientocc011.jpg

Tweaking
Frame your model and hit render. It should render quickly and look quite grainy and crap at this stage, like this:
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i151741_ambientocc012.jpg
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i151742_ambientocc013.jpg

Now we need to tweak the settings a little. Open the attribute editor and then in the Hypershade window click on the Ambient Occlusion node. The Occlusion node's attributes will now appear in the attribute editor. These are the settings I use
The first setting to change is 'Samples'. Increasing this will remove the grainy look but will drastically increase render times. 256 samples is good for most objects
Do not change the 'Bright' and 'Dark' settings. These affect how light/dark the occlusion value is, but it is a lot better to render with the default extremes and tweak them in Photoshop at a later stage if you need to.
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i151747_ambientocc015.jpg

The spread setting affects how far the occlusion shadow spreads over the surface. Again the default setting of 0.800 is good for most objects, any lower tends to be too extreme, and a high spread can cause darkening problems when it is multiplied over your colour layers in Photoshop.

Baking
Once you have the occlusion looking good in a render, the next stage is to bake it to a texture.

Continue...

BEST REGARDS
UBOAT234

[GuillermoZS]

Hi there! Well, actually I know how to generate occlusion maps in 3ds max and Maya, you could have just asked lol :D

Anyway, generating the occlusion map is relatively easy, the problem is exporting the object with the different UVs and pack it back to a .dat, that´s just what I don´t know how to do... at least without messing all the texture info :cry:

By the way, I DO NOT recomend to use Maya to modify objects for SH4: the maya shading network creates an additional render node (I don´t remember the name right now) that is exported with the .obj and is not recognized by the game engine. Try modifying an object in maya, export it as .obj and import it in 3DSmax: you will see an strange texture in the material editor... that´s the additional node created that breaks the original object´s textures and shadings.

As I saw in the development diary videos of the game it seems they used 3dsmax to create the game so I would stick to this app to modify objects...

Thanks for the tips! :up:

[UBOAT234]

Right,
When you export with Maya, you must edit the .obj and the .mtl, before import with Pack3D.
If you have set the Normals in Revers and change the tex-to-Vertex. The AO result Black.
For import, after you have modified the Model, in end and only in end of all, you can create the AO. Is perfect in 3DS. :up:

Check PM

BEST REGRADS
UBOAT234

[UBOAT234]

If the result, after the Convert to file Texture, is this:
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i152230_ambientocc020.jpg

The Work with textur mapping, Vertex, UV and Normals is not good.
Set the UV with a new map and rework all Triangles. After re-combine the object.
It is not enough Import only.

BEST REGARDS
UBOAT234

[UBOAT234]

Resolve the problem for error in Rendering With 3DS and Maya

WinXP of default use the RAM, for any process, to 1GB.
If the scene is extremly complex, it load all the memory until to 1GB and the System Crash.

Open the Control Panel of Windows XP, click on the System, and
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i152258_ambientocc022.jpg


This is in italian, but is the same flag in other language.
Select setup
This window appear
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i152261_ambientocc023.jpg

After select Modify
Appear the file Boot.ini
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i152262_ambientocc024.jpg


You must add the line seselcted and save
After close all and reboot
It increase the RAM for process to 3GB (really is not 3GB but it is another value)

In the next restart of Windows XP, you can to choose two different Boot.
One normal and one with 3GB.
With 3GB is, for example only for work with 3DS and Render...

For more information:
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/platform/server/PAE/PAEmem.mspx

BEST REGARDS
UBOAT234

[skwasjer]

Hi, got a PM from UBOAT234.
Great stuff going on here.

My project is still in the works, although progressing slow atm. I didn't have much of time the past couple weeks. My aim is to support exporting and reimporting the TMAP but I don't know yet how to store it in the OBJ format (or if it is even possible). I am also looking at different formats. DivingDuck has given me some help with the 3DS format, but all in all, its alot of work. Anyone with info (on how you do things manually) please share :)

One note on progress: I coded a custom hexedit control. My aim is to embed it in the tool for all non-identified data, so it allows for in-place editting as opposed to using a seperate tool. This will reduce errors and allows for easier navigation throughout the dat-file.

In 2 weeks I'm off for a 3 week vacation, and currently my dayjob has a bigger prio, so I don't promise anything soon.

[UBOAT234]

Hi, got a PM from UBOAT234.
Great stuff going on here.

My project is still in the works, although progressing slow atm. I didn't have much of time the past couple weeks. My aim is to support exporting and reimporting the TMAP but I don't know yet how to store it in the OBJ format (or if it is even possible). I am also looking at different formats. DivingDuck has given me some help with the 3DS format, but all in all, its alot of work. Anyone with info (on how you do things manually) please share :)

One note on progress: I coded a custom hexedit control. My aim is to embed it in the tool for all non-identified data, so it allows for in-place editting as opposed to using a seperate tool. This will reduce errors and allows for easier navigation throughout the dat-file.

In 2 weeks I'm off for a 3 week vacation, and currently my dayjob has a bigger prio, so I don't promise anything soon.



In any case, Good Work :up:

BEST REGARDS
UBOAT234

[UBOAT234]

Here a good work
In this case, nearly all the parameters are right
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i152800_ambientocc025.jpg

The problem remains insert the data in .dat file...

BEST REGARDS
UBOAT234

[skwasjer]

Can you blend it with the main texture and generate OBJ files for me? This would give me a source to work with...

I can have a look at the issue GuillermoZS describes as well.

[UBOAT234]

Can you blend it with the main texture and generate OBJ files for me? This would give me a source to work with...

I can have a look at the issue GuillermoZS describes as well.
In this night, I have worked with a prorammer/tester of Maya, for this process, of what you say... Is a problem make a .obj with this information. I make and send you the .obj.

The second problem is this: all the object contained in the .dat, they must be updated?
Obj extracted from .dat file, from Pack3D, contain some error for the production of the Baked AO.

BEST REGARDS
UBOAT234

[skwasjer]

In this night, I have worked with a prorammer/tester of Maya, for this process, of what you say... Is a problem make a .obj with this information. I make and send you the .obj.

The second problem is this: all the object contained in the .dat, they must be updated?
Obj extracted from .dat file, from Pack3D, contain some error for the production of the Baked AO.

My workaround idea is to generate two obj-files. The main one, and another holding the same model but now with the texture map from the TMAP. You could edit them seperately, and reimport them back into the DAT seperately as well. As long as geometry doesn't change there is no problem. When geometry does need to change, it should be changed in both files (together with both textures obviously). Then there is no problem either. I can import the new geometry back from the primary file, as well as the main texture info. Then, when importing the 2nd obj (with shadow map) I would map each face to the first obj, find the texture that is mapped onto it and put it in TMAP.

All in all, I prefer a different file format, which can hold this info together.

Hope this is clear...

[edit] After analyzing the 3DS format I see quite a few similarities with the DAT format. So I have high hopes of exporting/importing directly to 3DS. This includes all 3D objects, so not a seperate file for each object... :)

[GuillermoZS]

Hi! As promised here is a little tutorial about creating the Occlusion map for an object in 3DSMax. Also I´ll show how the program creates the aditional UVs for the Occlusion map...

I´m going to use the King George V object for this "tutorial". Do all this before starting:
Import the .obj and flip poligons.
In the material Editor, remove the default .tga attached to the Diffuse Color channel.
Switch to MentalRay as renderer.

Ok, now in Material Editor create a new map for the Diffuse Color channel (click on "none") and select "Ambient/Reflective Occlusion (base)" at the top of the list.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/GuillermoZS/1.jpg

Since this tutorial just covers the very basics I won´t enter in what every parameter is used for... (in the future I´ll do a much more in deep tutorial if you want ;-)

Change "Samples" to 78 and "Spread" to 0,2. Make a render:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/GuillermoZS/2.jpg

Ok, we have an occlusion map being generated by mentalray every time we render the scene. Now we are going to bake this map into an image:

SELCT THE OBJECT and go to Rendering> "Render to Texture" in the menu tabs.

This dialog will appear:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/GuillermoZS/3.jpg

Left everything as default EXCEPT:

1. In "General Settings" select where you want the image to be saved.

2. In "Output" press button "Add..." and select "Ambient Occlusion (MR)" from the list, click on "Add Elements". Press the "1024x1024" button.

Click on "Render"

If a "Missing Map Targets" dialog appear click "continue"

Let the computer "think". When done you will find the occlusion map saved in the folder you selected before in "General Settings".

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/GuillermoZS/objNBB_KGeorgeVAmbientOcclusion_MR_.jpg

Ok, the map is now generated BUT NOTICE THAT SOME CHANGES HAVE TAKEN EFFECT ON THE OBJECT:

To generate the occlusion map, 3ds max have generated a new modifier for the object: "Automatic Flatten UVs"

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/GuillermoZS/4.jpg

This modifier GENERATES ANOTHER UV MAP FOR THE OBJECT AND THIS UV MAP IS THE ONE USED TO GENERATE THE OCCLUSION MAP. This is the problem I described some posts ago about double UVs in the same object... As you can see in the picture the new map is stored on the map channel 3, so we will need to tell the application what UVs correspond to what texture.

Go to the Material Editor and clear the Ambient Occlsion map in the Color Difuse Channel. Load a bitmap in this channel and use the Occlusion map you just generated. Make a render and you will see this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/GuillermoZS/5.jpg

Something similar at what you see in the game right? The problem here is that the map is using the original UVs instead of the generated ones. In the Material Editor go to the map you have just loaded and change map channel to 3 (the one where the "auto faltten UVs" modifier created the UVs for the occlusion baking). Make a render.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/GuillermoZS/6.jpg

Here you go ;-)

Now, the BIG problem is pack all this info in a .dat file.

By the way, I´m pretty sure this is the way developers created the models for the game... the thing is how did they pack them?

Cheers!

[skwasjer]

Give me the 3DS file, so I can analyze it. Once I tackle this, I will be able to export/import 3DS directly from the DAT.

Here's a break down of a test file of DivingDuck:

View (http://sh4.bodeman.com/3ds_chunks.txt)

[UBOAT234]

I have not understood well :damn:
I have watched the chunk TMAP superficialally. But there are chunk TMAP after every object 3d.
All TMAP chunk contain the UVs map of the Occlusion? Or it contain also the 3d object? Or only the the first TMAP chunk contain all UVs? :rock:

(Still a problem and I break off all the PC that in house) :nope::arrgh!:


BEST REGARDS
UBOAT234

[skwasjer]

See here:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=105059&page=2

I explain the TMAP and also show screenshots of renderings directly from .DAT (nothing exported)

[tater]

What about the port objects? I tried exporting one with pack3d, and all i got was an mtl file.

[bruschi sauro]

Here is a closeup of the affected area:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/GuillermoZS/TextFound.jpg

Both back turrets and the flag are upside down. I have also found where that funky alien texture comes from, it´s "Caustics_new.dds" texture. It seems that when I get close to the ship the program tries to generate caustic and, instead of that, changes both color-caustics textures :o

Just for fun I shot some fishes to the ship and look what happened:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/GuillermoZS/TexHit.jpg

as soon as the torpedo hit the ship the texture turned into this :o:o:o I think it´s the normal map applied as color map...

Well it seems that Pack3D is no getting well with the new normal/specular/caustics maps...

Is someone else having troubles like these?
Scusa ma cosa fanno i giapponesi quando li siluri?
s'incazzano di brutto:rotfl: :rotfl:

[GuillermoZS]

Give me the 3DS file, so I can analyze it. Once I tackle this, I will be able to export/import 3DS directly from the DAT.

Here's a break down of a test file of DivingDuck:

View (http://sh4.bodeman.com/3ds_chunks.txt)

I´ve sent you a PM ;)

[GuillermoZS]

What about the port objects? I tried exporting one with pack3d, and all i got was an mtl file.
mmm... try using a different version of Pack3D. I know some versions give troubles with some kind of objects, depending on the P3D version... Hope this helps! :up:

[CaptainCox]

Edit will reformulate this as i have been reading up a bit. Ok I know how to import the changed models in to Pack3D BUT!, I keep getting all kinds of errors when trying to import, for example.

Number Format Exception for Input String"""

I am sure it has to do with the export settings in 3DS MAX...will dig some more but any hint would be very appreciated !

[CaptainCox]

BUMP

[tater]

Haven't had time to mess with this, I'm still moving stuff to my new (nice!) machine.

Altering some of the port and town objects would be a very cool thing. As someone pretty 3d impared, I'd try to stick to deleting stuff. What I want to see is some "less is more" ports and towns.

[CaptainCox]

The more peeps that get in to this the merrier I would say...but for now, its like :damn: :p Will keep digging.

[Madox58]

Depending on what file you are trying to export from,
Pack3d, all versions, will not work.
The reason beeing that SOME dats contain information Pack3d does not
recognize.
It then just stops any export.
Try the Flying Dutchman and you'll see this.
From this point,
it would be a very easy matter to stop exports of any newly
created dat by Pack3d should someone wish to.
The way around the problem is to find the trouble spot
in hex and remove it.
Export will work then.

[CaptainCox]

Ahhhh the very man!. Reading through A LOT of Pack3D threads here, and your name always crops up ;). Ok will dig some more. Have done "some" hexing...but starting to fear this now :o ...I am basically hunting for those rocks. I am sure its a super fast job once the correct stuff have been sorted out.

Just to be clear ( I know you have a lot of experience with this stuff) Is there a "sweetspot" setting in MAX when exporting and if not, how to know what to tic here?. This is the setting i have used, also tried others but ...
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/CaptainCox/Capture444.jpg

[CaptainCox]

Another weird one is, why does the .dat name change when cloning? In this case it's renamed to undersea.cam...normal?

[DivingDuck]

Moin CC,

try these settings:
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/5271/export001cd3.jpg http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/8900/export002vt0.jpg

Don´t check compressed numbers. That´s probably the reason for your Number Format Exception for Input String error message.

Regards,
DD

[CaptainCox]

CHEERS MAN! will have a go at it directly.

[Jace11]

Cool, I am using Pack3D version 1. Looking at some of the models, there are lots of surfaces flickering even when viewing in wings...

Is this the cause of ingame flickering..?

My first exercise will be to fix the rudder on the CVE Akitsu.

[tater]

^^^ Akitsu Maru isn't really a CVE, BTW. It belonged to the IJ Army and was a transport for planes. It was not used as a CV, the planes that left the flight deck only did so once, landing at their intended land bases.

[UBOAT234]

BUMP!
No news for import data of Occlusion Map?


BEST REGARDS
UBOAT234

[CaptainCox]

Moin CC,

try these settings:
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/5271/export001cd3.jpg http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/8900/export002vt0.jpg

Don´t check compressed numbers. That´s probably the reason for your Number Format Exception for Input String error message.

Regards,
DD
CHEERS MAN! works...but, and there is always a but...
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/CaptainCox/rockssmallhollow.jpg

As you can see the rocks are smaller, but also only sort a hollow and half :p
I guess it has to do with those settings, but...what exactly?

It looks like there is a clipping plane in the way as it renders all sides when panning around but sort a clips off that half as you move around.

[DivingDuck]

God kväll!
CHEERS MAN! works...but, and there is always a but...

As you can see the rocks are smaller, but also only sort a hollow and half :p
I guess it has to do with those settings, but...what exactly?
...
You might want to check out my scaling wall.
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/1865/skalenwandew4.png
It can be used to get the right scale used ingame. You may download it at my FileFront Site/ModdingTools.

... sort of hollow and half...
That´s not an issue of the export settings. The SHIII engine flips all faces. So before exporting your new object make sure to turn your object´s inside out by flipping all faces!

Regards,
DD

[CaptainCox]

Or does this have anything to do with the "import" settings maybe...
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/CaptainCox/IMPORTSETTING.jpg

AHHHHH CHEEERS! was posting as you posted :p. Dam its great to have some 3D veterans around when U need em :up:

[tater]

Once you're done with rocks, have a go at a reef :D

tater

[CaptainCox]

HAHAHA. man I am taking baby steps here :p

@DivingDuck, revert/flip...faces DHO!...quick walkthrough or maybe a link...Searching on my own here OF COURSE! but...maybe a push in the right direction. Cheers!

[DivingDuck]

@CC
these are the import settings I use:

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/4278/import001vm8.jpg

Regards,
DD

[DivingDuck]

Hi UBoat,
BUMP!
No news for import data of Occlusion Map?
sorry, no news so far. But I´m in contact with skwasjer. He seems to have a pretty good access to programming and analyzing. I hope he´ll succeed debugging the common file formats.

Regards,
DD

[CaptainCox]

@CC
these are the import settings I use:

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/4278/import001vm8.jpg

Regards,
DDAgain cheers a BUNCH MAN!

[CaptainCox]

HM, flipping vertexes is for sure not my strongest discipline at the mo...DAM! I am used to complicated software but there is always a point when you just want to to this to the keyboard :damn: ...trying to grasp them :88)

[CaptainCox]

THIS IS A SMALL STEP FOR...MAN, but a huge rock for CAPTAIN COX!

MAN I COULD KISS YOU...if I was not a guy:oops: :rock: :rock: :rock:
@DivingDuck LOVE YOU MAN....I REALLY DO!
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/CaptainCox/ROCKBIG.jpg

Gonna get going on this...work in the morn..half day but, and the Mrs is going to Swe for the WEKEED...oh glorious modding days indeed :)

[DivingDuck]

THIS IS A SMALL STEP FOR...MAN, but a huge rock for CAPTAIN COX!

MAN I COULD KISS YOU...if I was not a guy:oops: :rock: :rock: :rock:
@DivingDuck LOVE YOU MAN....I REALLY DO!
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/CaptainCox/ROCKBIG.jpg

Gonna get going on this...work in the morn..half day but, and the Mrs is going to Swe for the WEKEED...oh glorious modding days indeed :) It would take you less than 45min to get here (SE of Darmstadt) to kiss me. ;) But I guess my wife wouldn´t agree. BTW, neither would I.

...and the Mrs is going to Swe for the WEKEED...oh glorious modding days indeed :) I always encourage my wife to see her parents in Northern Germany and to take our son with her. Sometimes my wish fullfills.

You´re welcome any time. Glad I could help you. Keep on modding.

Regards,
DD

[UBOAT234]

Hi UBoat,
BUMP!
No news for import data of Occlusion Map?
sorry, no news so far. But I´m in contact with skwasjer. He seems to have a pretty good access to programming and analyzing. I hope he´ll succeed debugging the common file formats.

Regards,
DD

Many thanks DD. I hope for all a good work. :up:

BEST REGARDS
UBOAT234

[CaptainCox]

OK so I hit a wall with this. I think I need some HEXING as the file I am trying to run is bigger then the original=crashing. I know privateer wrote a tut on how to do this...been searching my ass off but can't find it again :( I basically just modified the officers hats to look more realistic in 3D MAX but as i said when loading the game it crashes, so it must be the size or something. Any hint/link would be very welcome!

Cheers guys!

[DivingDuck]

Hi CC,

did you just import the new hat or did you hex edit it into the *.dat?
If importing the vertex data by hex you have to adjust the data block size indicating bytes as well.

Regards,
DD

[CaptainCox]

Hi man.
No i basically just did what i did to the rock but i tweaked some surfaces etc. I the simply imported back as i did the rocks. No hex editing so far, just import/tweaked/export/....crash :p. Never did any "importing the vertex data by hex" or "data block size indicating bytes"...actually sound like classical Greek to me...if there is a tut or explanation of this stuff...please link:oops: ...please!

[DivingDuck]

Did you try to import back the original object? I don´t think it is your model that causes the problem. If you don´t succeed you could send me your modded *.dat file. I´ll have a look at it sunday night.

Regards,
DD

[CaptainCox]

WOW, you are DA MAN!. OK gimme me like 30-40 min trying to finish something else here, and i will give that a go, if it don't work i send you a PM. Great having guys like you around, really appreciate it!

[CaptainCox]

OK, verified it, does import OK if using "stock" model, does NOT! if its changed, at least not my end. I uploaded a .rar with a readme and PMed you. Like the "readme" says i will work on with this but any input would be MUCH APRECEATED!. Would like to get my head around this 3D stuff.

[Madox58]

@CC Your hooked up with the right man!!

DivingDuck has taught me alot!!!

Wish I had the time to help you more myself but I'm finishing up a month long
Work tour.
I've been from Ohio to Alabama, to El Paso, Texas, BACK to Alabama.
Tomorrow I head to North Carolina for a week before I go home!!

I'll be home for 2 to 3 weeks free time then.
Feel free to ask me any questions you want.

[CaptainCox]

Cheers privateer! have fun..I know these business trips can be pretty tedious, at least for me. Spent a lot of time in Italy building car prototypes, many loooong months in hotels and what have you. That also made me scared of flying. I think I flew something like 86 times in 2005.

I will look at this stuff again today...never give up and all that ;)

[skwasjer]

fyi, the only format that is actually usable at this point is Max. Neither obj and 3ds can hold the extra UV's for the occlusion map/self illum. Bottom line is, they are useless. Even more so, because interiors have even more TMAP's per model (more UV maps).

The problem is, the Max format is a bit difficult, factor 1:100 (or whatever ;)) compared to dat-files. I've got a basic file reader atm, but it's not usuable in any way at this point. Also, writing the Max format is again, complex.

I have thought of some other formats still. All in all this isn't going to be a short term project (which wasn't my intention anyway), so don't expect anything soon. I also go on vacation next week, so it will be at least July until I may be able to have an early release and even then no guarantees... Hope you can have a little patience :/

When I get back I'll dive into the issues again. l8r

[GuillermoZS]

fyi, the only format that is actually usable at this point is Max. Neither obj and 3ds can hold the extra UV's for the occlusion map/self illum. Bottom line is, they are useless. Even more so, because interiors have even more TMAP's per model (more UV maps).

The problem is, the Max format is a bit difficult, factor 1:100 (or whatever ;)) compared to dat-files. I've got a basic file reader atm, but it's not usuable in any way at this point. Also, writing the Max format is again, complex.

I have thought of some other formats still. All in all this isn't going to be a short term project (which wasn't my intention anyway), so don't expect anything soon. I also go on vacation next week, so it will be at least July until I may be able to have an early release and even then no guarantees... Hope you can have a little patience :/

When I get back I'll dive into the issues again. l8r

I was just guessing something like that... As I told you I´m pretty sure they used a custom plug-in to export the objects from 3dsmax to a .dat file containing all data in the scene: objects position, UVs, texture links...

Wouldn´t it be possible someone contact the developers to get some light on this issue? I´ve been looking arrownd for the e-mail of the studio that developed the game but found nothing.

Anyway, if you need some help on the .max format check this forums:

www.cgtalk.com

In the 3dsmax or programers section you can be helped by some of the best 3D artists/programers in the world :up:

[Jace11]

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=115065

Last post is by elanaiba, he is a member of dev team, ask him... though I don't think he is graphics orientated.

[skwasjer]

I was just guessing something like that... As I told you I´m pretty sure they used a custom plug-in to export the objects from 3dsmax to a .dat file containing all data in the scene: objects position, UVs, texture links...

Wouldn´t it be possible someone contact the developers to get some light on this issue? I´ve been looking arrownd for the e-mail of the studio that developed the game but found nothing.

I think we still need an intermediate format, so we don't have to depend on one 3D studio application. There are still some alternative formats to investigate, which I'm doing right now. The OBJ format seemed valid, for the author of Pack3D back then. Its open, easy and accessible. One interesting format is Microsoft's own X format.

Check this plugin out for Max 9:
http://www.andytather.co.uk/Panda/directxmax_downloads.aspx

Supposedly it supports exporting to .X format with multiple UV sets (see the features page):
http://www.andytather.co.uk/Panda/directxmax_mainfeatures.aspx

I don't know if the Max 8 plugin also supports this feature. So, I need someone (or sometwo) with access to Max 8 and 9 to test this, preferably on the exact same model. I need an export from both versions of Max to X, with two UV sets mapped to a model. Make two indentical exports, one binary and one text file type and send them to me :)

Some more settings for the plugin: enable mesh definition (duh!), materials, normals, mapping coords (duh2!)

[edit]Thx for the link

[edit2]I just noticed it's only an exporter plugin, so it loses a bit of its usefullness as we need both ways.. :( Some alternatives?

[GuillermoZS]

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=115065

Last post is by elanaiba, he is a member of dev team, ask him... though I don't think he is graphics orientated.

Thanks, I´ll try to contact them :up:

[GuillermoZS]

Ok, I contacted them, here is the response:

"This has been discused the decision of the management of the studio was not to release the export plug-in or the format of the dat file because its like the Pandora's box (you can't take it back there will be issues related to copyright and many other issues besides that). This kind of information can easily be used to hurt the interests of the studio and there are people that will do that if given the possibility.

Many parts of the game have their data stored in a way that makes it easy to mod them, but the dat files are not intended for modding."

Well, reading this is obvious we are not going to have things easy to mod the freaking .dat files :lol:

[GuillermoZS]

I was just guessing something like that... As I told you I´m pretty sure they used a custom plug-in to export the objects from 3dsmax to a .dat file containing all data in the scene: objects position, UVs, texture links...

Wouldn´t it be possible someone contact the developers to get some light on this issue? I´ve been looking arrownd for the e-mail of the studio that developed the game but found nothing.
I think we still need an intermediate format, so we don't have to depend on one 3D studio application. There are still some alternative formats to investigate, which I'm doing right now. The OBJ format seemed valid, for the author of Pack3D back then. Its open, easy and accessible. One interesting format is Microsoft's own X format.

Check this plugin out for Max 9:
http://www.andytather.co.uk/Panda/directxmax_downloads.aspx

Supposedly it supports exporting to .X format with multiple UV sets (see the features page):
http://www.andytather.co.uk/Panda/directxmax_mainfeatures.aspx

I don't know if the Max 8 plugin also supports this feature. So, I need someone (or sometwo) with access to Max 8 and 9 to test this, preferably on the exact same model. I need an export from both versions of Max to X, with two UV sets mapped to a model. Make two indentical exports, one binary and one text file type and send them to me :)

Some more settings for the plugin: enable mesh definition (duh!), materials, normals, mapping coords (duh2!)

[edit]Thx for the link

[edit2]I just noticed it's only an exporter plugin, so it loses a bit of its usefullness as we need both ways.. :( Some alternatives?

Hi man, good find, I´ll give it a try as soon as I have free time (exams you know ;)) and send you the files.

Cheers!

[skwasjer]

Another candidate format is ASE. It can hold multiple UV sets as well. I don't know if Max supports importing this format...

[DivingDuck]

Moin,
Ok, I contacted them, here is the response:

"This has been discused the decision of the management of the studio was not to release the export plug-in or the format of the dat file because its like the Pandora's box (you can't take it back there will be issues related to copyright and many other issues besides that). This kind of information can easily be used to hurt the interests of the studio and there are people that will do that if given the possibility.

Many parts of the game have their data stored in a way that makes it easy to mod them, but the dat files are not intended for modding."

Well, reading this is obvious we are not going to have things easy to mod the freaking .dat files :lol: That´s bad news. Hope skwasjer will succeed in the end.

Another candidate format is ASE. It can hold multiple UV sets as well. I don't know if Max supports importing this format... Never heard of this format. Can you send me a sample. I´ll make some tests on importing then.

Regards,
DD

[skwasjer]

Never heard of this format. Can you send me a sample. I´ll make some tests on importing then.

Regards,
DD
You can export it from Max directly. I've seen screenshots of it :) It's also known as ASCII Scene Export. But I don't know if it can be imported...

I'll have a look if I can write a simple exporter from DAT for now... But I don't want to spend too much time on it, if it can't be imported.

[DivingDuck]

You can export it from Max directly. I've seen screenshots of it :) It's also known as ASCII Scene Export. But I don't know if it can be imported... Just tested it. It´s no problem to export. But for some reason no import plugin is present by default. I´ve googled for an ascii import filter, but no success so far. Keep you advised.

Regards,
DD

[CaptainCox]

Been really sick the last past days, so i am home sick from work and all that, feeling a bit better so i thought I have a go at modifying the "hat" model for the officers. I got a lot of help from "DivingDuck" so far. But ran into some "texture" probs. http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/CaptainCox/HAT.jpg

As you can see the "tweaked" model loads ok, but all the textures are gone. I basically just loaded the model using Pack3D in to 3DS MAX and tweaked it and saved using the same settings as I did the rocks (further up in this thread) Any ideas guys?

[DivingDuck]

Moin CC,

welcome to the world of TMAP. :damn:
I didn´t check the rocks you made. But they most probably don´t use the TMAP. But everything else in SHIV is using this damn section.
SHIII used it for u-boat interiors only, and I could avoid problems by just changing the vertex positions (hinges, periscope, hatch) without touching the number of vertices, triangles or faces. I just hex edited the changed vertex data into the *.dat. Thus all other information, such as TMAP, remained valid. And that´s the reason for not opening other hatches until now.

Regards,
DD

[CaptainCox]

Ahhh...crap!. Ok I will read up on that Hexedit tut from privateer...been avoiding it until now. Will fiddle with it. Cheers man!

[azn_132]

Ahhh...crap!. Ok I will read up on that Hexedit tut from privateer...been avoiding it until now. Will fiddle with it. Cheers man!

OT, What happen to privateer anyway? Why was he banned for?

[MaxT.dk]

Looks nice for now, CaptainCox! :) Good work :up: Hope you'll get better!

[Lagger123987]

Can anyone help me on my Bismarck/Nelson mod?

[CaptainCox]

Ahhh...crap!. Ok I will read up on that Hexedit tut from privateer...been avoiding it until now. Will fiddle with it. Cheers man!

OT, What happen to privateer anyway? Why was he banned for?BANNED! no way. I think he is just bussy at the mo with work stuff...

[CaptainCox]

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=525523&postcount=8
:o :o :o :o :o No idea what happend there!...no...idea!

[Lagger123987]

(nothing), accidently press the reply button.

[CaptainCox]

@DD could you please elaborate a bit more on this.
Pack3d doesn´t export this TMAP section. When trying to import your (original/altered) file back to the *.dat you have to do this by hex too. That´s how I did it with all the uboat interior files while working on open hatch.
Import to a dummy.dat file. Open the file and search for the object data, just the vertex coords. Triangle coords and texture coords don´t need to be touched. Copy these data and paste them before the TMAP section. Keep in mind that triangle and texture coords are located between vertex and TMAP. After all check/alter the size information for the data block.
Looked at the "sapca_o01.obj" modified/unmodified in Pack3D/MAX in HEX Workshop
and i can't really grasp what i am looking for here.

Cheers.

[GuillermoZS]

Been really sick the last past days, so i am home sick from work and all that, feeling a bit better so i thought I have a go at modifying the "hat" model for the officers. I got a lot of help from "DivingDuck" so far. But ran into some "texture" probs.

-----

As you can see the "tweaked" model loads ok, but all the textures are gone. I basically just loaded the model using Pack3D in to 3DS MAX and tweaked it and saved using the same settings as I did the rocks (further up in this thread) Any ideas guys?

Hi man! The ONLY way you have to do this at the present moment is delete the Normal and Occlusion texture files of the object you are modifying. There is no other way right now, since Pack3D messes all TMAP info and it´s not possible to correct it manually (at least no one could be able to do it as far as I know). So, try deleting those maps... :up:

Cheers!

[CaptainCox]

Ahhhh!, Cheers!. Will give that a go.

[GuillermoZS]

Can anyone help me on my Bismarck/Nelson mod?

Could you pleas post a link t the mod? :D I see if I can help...

[DivingDuck]

Looked at the "sapca_o01.obj" modified/unmodified in Pack3D/MAX in HEX Workshop
and i can't really grasp what i am looking for here.

Cheers.
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/4020/hexobjdata002kh0.jpg

01 00 00 00 65 00 00 00.....data block type 1/101
DD 74 25 DF CB 14 B4 76....IDs node

0E 00 00 00......................number of object´s vertices (14)
.....168 bytes of vertex data, 12 bytes per vertex (4x, 4y, 4z)
0C 00 00 00......................number of object´s triangles (12)
.....156 bytes of triangle data, 13 bytes per triangle
19 00 00 00......................number of texture coords (25)
.....200 bytes for texture coords, 8bytes per coord
54 4D 41 50.....................TMAP
.....01.............................number of TMAPs
.....02.............................type of TMAP
..........72 bytes of TMAP data

(periods just serve as placeholders)

Regards,
DD

[CaptainCox]

WOW! nice one man. Will give me something to chew on here :p.
Cheers!:up:

[CaptainCox]

Ok...hitting that wall here.
Where do I get this info?
In MAX, or in the HEXEDITOR checking the .obj or from the .DAT ?

01 00 00 00 65 00 00 00.....data block type 1/101
DD 74 25 DF CB 14 B4 76....IDs node

0E 00 00 00......................number of object´s vertices (14)
.....168 bytes of vertex data, 12 bytes per vertex (4x, 4y, 4z)
0C 00 00 00......................number of object´s triangles (12)
.....156 bytes of triangle data, 13 bytes per triangle
19 00 00 00......................number of texture coords (25)
.....200 bytes for texture coords, 8bytes per coord
54 4D 41 50.....................TMAP
.....01.............................number of TMAPs
.....02.............................type of TMAP
..........72 bytes of TMAP data


Thanks!


Hi man! The ONLY way you have to do this at the present moment is delete the Normal and Occlusion texture files of the object you are modifying. There is no other way right now, since Pack3D messes all TMAP info and it´s not possible to correct it manually (at least no one could be able to do it as far as I know). So, try deleting those maps... :up:

Cheers! Ok the hat that I am trying to import has 2 texture files
sapca_od01.dds (being the graphics/color map) and sapca_mn01.tga (being the Occlusion map)
Do you mean delete both? or only the Occlusion map? Do you mean simply not to load it or delete it using HEX?
You said "both" but where do i get the color from then DOH! As you see i am only starting this stuff so forgive me if its n00b questions here.
Cheers!

[GuillermoZS]

Ok the hat that I am trying to import has 2 texture files
sapca_od01.dds (being the graphics/color map) and sapca_mn01.tga (being the Occlusion map)
Do you mean delete both? or only the Occlusion map? Do you mean simply not to load it or delete it using HEX?
You said "both" but where do i get the color from then DOH! As you see i am only starting this stuff so forgive me if its n00b questions here.
Cheers!

Hi, my fault, I didn´t explain it very well :D Every object in the game ususally has 3 textures applied to it: color, normal (bump) and occlusion. The problem when modifying ang object in SH4 with Pack3D is that the info about the UVs for each map is messed up so the game has troubles knowing what texture apply on what cahnnel (color,normal,occlusion).

So, the option I gave you is just remove all maps EXCEPT the color map (just put the texture files in another folder or change its name so the game doesn´t recognice them). Don´t know how many maps have the hat object, remove all except the color map, and let´s see what happen :up:

Cheers!

[CaptainCox]

Ah Ok, got ya. Will try right away. Thanks!

[CaptainCox]

Hm...don't really seem to do it...at least like it should.
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/CaptainCox/HAT11.jpg

Renamed that Occlusion file and as you see the texture still don't show up.
I wonder...maybe have to look deeper in to that HEX stuff after all.

[Anvart]

Ok the hat that I am trying to import has 2 texture files
sapca_od01.dds (being the graphics/color map) and sapca_mn01.tga (being the Occlusion map)
Do you mean delete both? or only the Occlusion map? Do you mean simply not to load it or delete it using HEX?
You said "both" but where do i get the color from then DOH! As you see i am only starting this stuff so forgive me if its n00b questions here.
Cheers!

Hi, my fault, I didn´t explain it very well :D Every object in the game ususally has 3 textures applied to it: color, normal (bump) and occlusion. The problem when modifying ang object in SH4 with Pack3D is that the info about the UVs for each map is messed up so the game has troubles knowing what texture apply on what cahnnel (color,normal,occlusion).

So, the option I gave you is just remove all maps EXCEPT the color map (just put the texture files in another folder or change its name so the game doesn´t recognice them). Don´t know how many maps have the hat object, remove all except the color map, and let´s see what happen :up:

Cheers!
Yeee ...
*_T01 - diffuse (color) texture
*_N01 - Normal Texture (for bump mapping)
*_O01 - Occlusion Texture (for R/L reflection)
:yep:

[DivingDuck]

Ok...hitting that wall here.
Where do I get this info?
In MAX, or in the HEXEDITOR checking the .obj or from the .DAT ?

HexEditor, Marine.dat/3d node #259/sapca_ca01. BUT the first posted screen was made from my OH project.
Try this approach:

http://img477.imageshack.us/img477/8643/hexvertexmarine001yl5.jpg
this screen was taken from the actual Marine.dat


take a small dat file (e.g. my barrel.dat as it contains only one 3d object)
rename it to whatever you want
import your hat.obj to this dummy.dat
go to the 3d object´s node
according to my Marine.dat the number of vertices is 54 (36 00 00 00)
copy the following 648bytes (vertex position data)
paste into new tab
open the unchanged Marine.dat
go to the 3d object´s node
paste the 648bytes over the existing bytes
save and try what´s happening

ATTN: The number of vertices MUST NOT be changed.

The textures should be applied now, but you may encounter some texture distortion.
If you don´t succeed doing the hex stuff, I´ll do it for you.

Regards,
DD

[CaptainCox]

Super man! Cheers! will give it my best!

[GuillermoZS]

Hm...don't really seem to do it...at least like it should.
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/CaptainCox/HAT11.jpg

Renamed that Occlusion file and as you see the texture still don't show up.
I wonder...maybe have to look deeper in to that HEX stuff after all.

Hi, for what I see in the picture, I think that´s a problem with the normal map. I´ve been looking at the texture files for the hat, well, I think the files you mentioned before are not the right ones for that exact object. I THINK the right ones are:

- sapca_od01.dds (color)
- sapca_on01.tga (normal) <-- and NOT "sapca_mn01.tga" (which is for the sailor white hat I think)

The last one (sapca_on01.tga) is the one you have to remove. Try it and let´s see what happens... ;)

By the way, I think there are nor occlusion maps for the characters (or I haven´t found them)

[CaptainCox]

You know what!...UR 100% right!...but...
Check this out.

UNMODDED HAT (White glare in certain angles)
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/CaptainCox/HAT22.jpg


MODDED HAT (looks like its picking up "some" color )
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/CaptainCox/HAT33.jpg

As you see there is some problems doing it like this :(

I will fiddle with the hex trick and see if i can get it that way.

Thanks a lot though man! I was like WOOT when I saw I had the wrong Occlusion file.

[UBOAT234]

Hi,
For the moment without a TMAP editor, I have tried one technical, temporary solution.

Rework entire diffuse texture to 512 and repeat this to entire canvas.
For ex. Here the original 1024x1024
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i162608_texture001.jpg

Resize image to 512x512
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i162612_texture004.jpg
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i162615_texture005.jpg

Expand canvas to 1024x1024
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i162614_texture006.jpg
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i162617_texture007.jpg
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i162618_texture008.jpg
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i162621_texture009.jpg

Rework your texture with your material and make a flatten image
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i162623_texture011.jpg

I have made this
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i162626_texture012.jpg

And after a new Alpha Channel
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i162630_texture013.jpg



Now import this material in your 3D Software and make a set UVs map without Overlapping.
When you have ended the work, Bake the Occlusion Map.
Attention, without Overlapping! Only the objects that are equal can be with Overlap. For ex. the safeboat in a unit is ten. Bake only one, because all the safeboat is in the same place on the texture and UVs coordinated.


(In this example the the texture and Occlusion is not complet)
Open the Diffuse texture, apply the Occlusion in a new layer
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i162634_texture014.jpg
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i162637_texture015.jpg



Continue

BEST REGARDS
UBOAT234

[UBOAT234]

Now select the layer of the Occlusion and set this with Multiply http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i162638_texture016.jpg
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i162639_texture017.jpg

The Shadows now is in the right place
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i162640_texture019.jpg


Now I have a Diffuse Texture with Alpha Channel and a Layer with Occlusion Map.
Save this image with the name of Diffuse Texture, ex. *.T01, without Layer and Alpha.

And now make a texture for the Light Map.
Delete the layer of the Occlusion.
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i162645_texture022.jpg

Make on the RGB channel a value of grey of 200 for channel
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i162647_texture023.jpg

Fill all the channels with this. And this is the result
http://immagini.p2pforum.it/out.php/i162649_texture025.jpg



Save this image with the name of the Light Map, ex *.O01, now with the Alpha Channel
At this point I have my model with a new texture, new set UVs, but the Shadows is mapped in the diffuse texture.
In the Light Map have in work/engine only the Alpha Channel.


BEST REGARDS
UBOAT234

[UBOAT234]

In end I must make a new Normal Texture ex. *.N01. Because I have changed the Diffuse Texture.
I will have little resolution...
But this allows me to have the space in order to put the UVs without Overlapping.
This is necessary for Bake a Occlusion without error.

BEST REGARDS
UBOAT234

[Lagger123987]

Can anyone help me on my Bismarck/Nelson mod?

Could you pleas post a link t the mod? :D I see if I can help...

Not done yet, Need to show you some more pics of it.

[CaptainCox]

Very nice Tut there UBOAT234...I wonder if this would help me on that "Hat" prob i have? Gonna fiddle with the hexing today anyway, but PS is sort of what I am good at...hexing...well, not yet!

[CaptainCox]

@DD ;)...works like a charm!. Its not 54 vertices in the "sapca_o01" but 115, that's 73 00 00 00 ;) I think you looked at the "sapca_ca01"

I can see the texture just fine ingame but as I did this quick and dirty, just pasted the code in all 12 "sapca's" just to see if I got the desired effect. I did this as the models sort a loads at random, and instead of waiting for "THE" model to load I simply used it on all, so the models are a bit fuked up :p But anyhow seems to work.

Now to the tedious work of doing this to all 12 models.

Cheers and Thanks CC!

EDIT: This is actually a pretty "backwards method" not that it don't work, but it would be so much more "fluid" to just be able to export, tweak, import, play :p. I can see in this thread you guys are looking hard for a better method to fix this. As i get more experience with this 3D stuff I will chip in where I can.

[CaptainCox]

Ok running in to some...lets call it HEX anomalies. In MAX the model shows 115 vertices, but when i search for that in the original Marine.Dat it don't exist :o
Is there some logic to this or?

[DivingDuck]

Hi CC,

which model is it?
Try setting the IMPORT OPTIONS to SINGLE.

Regards,
DD

[CaptainCox]

Its just one of the models i have this prob with, I will try setting to "Single" on that. BUT HEY! CHECK IT OUT!!!!

MODDED
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/CaptainCox/MODDEDH1.jpg


UNMODDED
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/CaptainCox/UNMODDEDH1.jpg


MODDED
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/CaptainCox/MODDEDH2.jpg

UNMODDED
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/CaptainCox/UNMODDEDH2.jpg

:p DD you are a genius!
Still have to sort out that last model and I think some minor tweaks, i also have to modify the texture as the modded hat is bigger...but getting there. Thanks MAN!

PS: Whats up with your SIG? DD

[DivingDuck]

Hey, that´s great news. Looking great indeed. Keep me advised on the last model!
My sig, don´t know. Seems to be an imageshack issue.

Regards,
DD

[CaptainCox]

Ok DD I tell you wich one is driving me MAD! its the sapca_o07.
Its 115 vertices 100% but when i search for 73 00 00 00 in the "barrel.dat" i get ZERO. All the rest just works. I also checked by just opening the original 07.obj in hex an it sure as H.LL says 115...weird!

Original o07.obj
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/CaptainCox/origvert.jpg

Searching after importing to your Barrel.dat
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/CaptainCox/search.jpg

Cheers CC

[kakemann]

Captain Cox!.....Amazing! :o

[CaptainCox]

Naaaaa...there is some good guys that have been here for a long time that I am learning from...that's all! believe me. DD and the guys know their stuff!

Ok DD I tell you which one is driving me MAD! its the sapca_o07.
Its 115 vertices 100% but when i search for 73 00 00 00 in the "barrel.dat" i get ZERO. All the rest just works. I also checked by just opening the original 07.obj in hex an it sure as H.LL says 115...weird!

Original o07.obj
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/CaptainCox/origvert.jpg

Searching after importing to your Barrel.dat
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/CaptainCox/search.jpg



Anyhow, there is also something weird with sapca_12
Its again a 115 vert but searching for that after the sapca_12 instance there is nothing.

Original sapca_12 in Hex Workshop
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/CaptainCox/orig12.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/CaptainCox/sapca12.jpg

As you can see Address line 00280637 is the last instance holding 115 bytes, and that's right after the file name, no code there really. (this is the original Marine.dat)


Cheers CC

PS merged with previous post as its easier to get an overview of the problem.

[DivingDuck]

Ok DD I tell you which one is driving me MAD! its the sapca_o07.
Its 115 vertices 100% but when i search for 73 00 00 00 in the "barrel.dat" i get ZERO. All the rest just works. I also checked by just opening the original 07.obj in hex an it sure as H.LL says 115...weird!


Searching after importing to your Barrel.dat
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/CaptainCox/search.jpg



Anyhow, there is also something weird with sapca_12
Its again a 115 vert but searching for that after the sapca_12 instance there is nothing.

Original sapca_12 in Hex Workshop
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/CaptainCox/orig12.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/CaptainCox/sapca12.jpg

As you can see Address line 00280637 is the last instance holding 115 bytes, and that's right after the file name, no code there really. (this is the original Marine.dat)


Cheers CC

PS merged with previous post as its easier to get an overview of the problem.

Don´t search for 73 00 00 00, there might be other appearances of this value. Open the *.dat with Pack3D and go to the respective 3D node. That´s a type 1/101 data block. See the position on the right side? Copy and paste.
Switch to your hex editor, go to this position and then ... count bytes as follows

8 bytes for the type of data block
4 bytes for the size
8 bytes for the ID
1 byte spare
4 bytes for the number of vertices
(12xnumber of vertices)bytes vertex data

I´ve checked original Marine.dat and sapca_o07 says 115vertices, sapca_o12 as well 115vertices.

As for your no-code problem, the node you´re looking at in your screenshot is the type 8/0 data block. It´s just there to give the name to the respective nodes. It usually follows the 1/101 (3d object), 4/100 (holding position information for the object) data block a has the same ID as the type 4/100 block

If you find another number of vertices in the dummy.dat (barrel.dat) something has gone wrong with im- or exporting. As the 1/101 is the first of the concerned nodes it should always be the same offset in your dummy.dat for your imported objects.

Regards,
DD

PS: last post for today, sorry man, gotta go.

PS: my sig is still missing :damn: Hope there´s a copy left on my desktop to re-upload.

[CaptainCox]

Cheers, you always have an answer to everything MAN! :)
RESPECT!. Ok, again something to chew on here. Was just looking at the textures and that could also be a hard one to crack as they are smaller then the model etc. Anyhow, one thing at the time. I will try what you just wrote tonight, will report back etc.

And keep em coming in nice and slow now ;) (not related to these posts)

Thanks! CC

[UBOAT234]

For all,
Is a very good work :up:

But...
Without an Editor or a Tool, is all most complex and small modification demands much every time.
Is a stress-work...
I have much patience, but this is truly too much :damn:
I hope that someone constructs something, or is risked to lose the head :rock:

:lurk:


BEST REGARDS
UBOAT234

[CaptainCox]

Minkia!...I am sort in the same boat here man :p
If someone here knows how to work with textures in 3DS MAX, please follow:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=115397

[UBOAT234]

Hi DD,

For all .dat file, we must always multiply:
Vertex * 12
Vertex Coord * 13
Triangles * 8

Or I say badly? ;)

BEST REGARDS
UBOAT234

[DivingDuck]

Hi UBoat,

if I´m not mistaken,

vertex x 12
triangles x 13
vertex coords x 8Regards,
DD

[UBOAT234]

Hi UBoat,

if I´m not mistaken,
vertex x 12
triangles x 13
vertex coords x 8Regards,
DD

Right... :up:
I have mistaken to write... ;)

BEST REGARDS
UBOAT234

[UBOAT234]

3DS Max, Maya and others
Here some information for Shaders and Illumination:

http://www.bencloward.com/tutorials_shaders1.shtml
http://www.bencloward.com/shaders_globalIllum.shtml
http://www.bencloward.com/tutorials_normal_maps1.shtml

BEST REGARDS
UBOAT234

[CaptainCox]

Grazie! Good stuff!

[UBOAT234]

Grazie! Good stuff!


Hi CC,
Have only changed the Vertex Coords?

BEST REGARDS
UBOAT234

[CaptainCox]

Well, working on it, Hexing is a science in itself and not an easy one, at least not for a N00b like me ;)

[UBOAT234]

Well, working on it, Hexing is a science in itself and not an easy one, at least not for a N00b like me ;)
But you have made a great job. In hex it is learned, with time, all is possible :up:

BEST REGARDS
UBOAT234

[UBOAT234]

Bump...;)

[UBOAT234]

Moin,

...no news for one large release...:cry:

[Anti_Ship_Fella]

anyone knows? im using WINGS 3D and BLENDER but none can open the extracted OBJ files