Is there an exhaust mod?

[GoldenRivet]

I have noticed in several photos and books and movies the very light exhaust smoke coming from the stern of the U-boats especially when the diesels are turning out high RPM. its not a lot, but it is noticable.

Is there a mod that models this U-boat exhaust?

I think it would be a hard mod to work on since all the exhaust smoke in the game tends to be about the same size and thickness... but from the U-boats its about the size and thickness as from a mack truck or something. not like the smoke we see chruning out of merchant smoke stacks.

anyone know about it?

[Madox58]

I'll just say this.
It can be done.
It's not hard.
And FPS would not be hit to hard at all.
But how many want it?

[nfitzsimmons]

Making it so that it's affected by wind speed and direction might be a challenge.

[Madox58]

It could be affected same as ships smoke.
No more, no less.

[Raus]

Someone should do it. I was actually just thinking about this. I would definitely use it.

[nativetexan]

Definitely something I would like to have!

[danlisa]

@ Privateer

This has been a SH3 users dream since year dot!:up:

One will have to assume that the diesel smoke will have no effect on Enemy vessels visual capabilities and will just be 'eye candy'. Also, will it 'disappear' when submerged by using the switch over to batteries as the trigger for the exhaust fumes to stop?

If this can be done, where will it vent from the U-boat? We might need to add exhaust ports to the skins.:hmm:

:rock::rock::rock:

[Madox58]

Anyone have a link to pictures of the smoke?:hmm:
I've looked real quick but haven't spotted any yet. :damn:

[danlisa]

:hmm: Can't find any online, I have some pdf's at home I'll check them. Maybe they just didn't give that much off. It would be a bit of a giveaway in RL.:-?

[Madox58]

The color and amount can be adjusted.
Maybe a technical drawing would give a close
area for the exhaust.

[danlisa]

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/8772/typeviickf4.th.jpg (http://img237.imageshack.us/my.php?image=typeviickf4.jpg)

Does that help?

[Madox58]

That helped and I also found very detailed specification drawings
at UBoatArchives.net.

It appears the skins already have the exhaust ports painted in.
Now if I can just find an image to work with to get the color and details.

I would think a very faint white or grayish color?

[nfitzsimmons]

It could be affected same as ships smoke.
No more, no less.

Doh! Excellent point! That hadn't occured to me. Too early in the day, I guess. Besides, I've been downloading the SHIV 1.2 patch and waiting for opinions on it.

I'll probably install that tonight, then go back to my VIIB patrol.

[GoldenRivet]

just watch the movie das boot. it should be a small opening on the deck on the port side just astern of the watch tower by about 10 - 12 feet.

[tiger_tim_34]

Well up for this mod. Wish I could help in some way. :up:

[Madox58]

This detail shows exhaust exiting on port and starboard sides.
http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-570Plate16.htm

And the stock skins have those openings painted in place.

[Madox58]

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/Stuff/Test_2.jpg

[nfitzsimmons]

Well, that's looking positive. I'd use it.

[Madox58]

Smoke disappears when you dive.
Also shuts off if deck goes awash then returns.
Kinda neat.

[bert8for3]

It looks terrific. I don't know if it's possible to adjust, but maybe just a touch too heavy (or too dark)??

[Madox58]

It's under adjustment now.
This is just a picture to show it can and has been done.

[GT182]

Sweet! Great job Privateer. :up:

Will it be necessary for an exhaust mod for each Uboat type? I believe the answer would be yes but figured it would better to ask. ;)

[bert8for3]

It's under adjustment now.
This is just a picture to show it can and has been done.

I think it looks great as is anyway. :up:

[Madox58]

Each sub would need to be modded.
The demo Sub has the exhaust inserted in the sub itself.
To do all Subs it would be best to place the exhaust in the particals.dat
then mod each sub to call it.
It could also be setup so editing the eqp file would allow it to be turned on or off.
With the demo Sub, I've not seen any FPS hit so it seems good.

[3Jane]

Perhaps a slightly blue-ish tint to the smoke as it's diesel.

[bert8for3]

Not that I'm an expert :know: in diesel smoke colour, but I think blue, or at least too much blue, indicates engine problems. See this: http://www.freeautoadvice.com/diesel/smoke.html and http://www.neptuneproducts.co.nz/shop/Smoke.html?id=zPFZ2wiI#colour . And this in particular on marine diesels: http://www.oceanmarineservices.com/Diesel%20Engine%20Smoke.htm , which suggests that a faint grey/white might be the colour, at least if the engine is working right.
edit: So meant to finish by saying that I agree, just a hint of blue.

[Kaleu_Mihoo]

Privateer, it looks so verdammt good!
This and the open hatch mod are 2 my graphic favourites for SH3, looking for the dl link and appreciate your fantastic work!
greets

[Wilcke]

Generally, diesel engines will produce a lot of smoke when being throttled up to their working rpm...generally where they produce the most torque/hp/kw. But they will emit eflux when working under "load", such as "pulling", "running a generator".
I have been around a lot of diesel powerplants, but all were land based.

Looks good!:up:

Wilcke

[GT182]

Seeing I'm an ex truckdriver, too blue or too black is a sign of problems. For ships and Uboats I can't really say. But I believe a faint smokey grey color would fit just right for this mod. It's your call tho Privateer.... do as you see fit and we'll still enjoy it. ;)

[Maraz]

Will the amount of smoke depend on the engine power? E.g. much more smoke at flank speed than at ahead slow?

Maraz

[Ubåtskapten]

Nice work, looking forward to the final mod.:up:

Here are some pictures of diesel exhaust fumes from different submarines if it might be of any help. Even though the smoke on these images probably is when the engines is on high rpm. At least I did not find any images of a WWII U-boat with visible diesel smoke.


http://www.dutchsubmarines.com/pictures/images/zwaardvis2/boat_zwaardvis2_sea_1988.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/1022/surfaceb.jpg
http://www.olgoat.com/substuff/mik66.htm

[Madox58]

Wow, That 1st link is what I was looking for!
That's kinda what I was seeing in my head.
Thanks!!

If I can find away to attach it to the engine controls
it could possibly be made to change.
As I've never really dug into the Subs,
I don't know at this point.

Right now,
If a wave washes over the deck the smoke stops,
once above the water line it kicks out a good puff then
settles down to a bit less then the picture shows.

That looks kinda cool, but still needs cut back.

Also, even at full stop the smoke is there.
I am looking into tieing into throttle control.
but no promises at this point.

Oh, and before it's asked,
I can do the SH4 Subs the same way.

[Paajtor]

This detail shows exhaust exiting on port and starboard sides.
http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-570Plate16.htm

And the stock skins have those openings painted in place. Then will it also be possible, to show exhaust-smoke from only 1 running engine (ie, when you're lying stationary, in recharge-mode)?

Which diesel would run in recharge-mode anyway? Did they have the choice between either one of the 2, or would the gears only allow 1 particular engine?

[Madox58]

I'll be honest,
I don't know if I can tie it to helm control,
props or what at this point.
Right now,
Any time on surface you have smoke.
That part was easy.
Now I have to dig into the dats to see if I can gain
the type of control that would really stand it out.
The Sub stuff is all new turf for me,
so it'll take a few days studying.

[GT182]

More power would deffinately mean more smoke, and it would be darker. But as Privateer says .... "I have to dig into the dats to see if I can gain
the type of control that would really stand it out."

If he can't gain the control he wants, to me any smoke coming from the exhausts would be fine. It's something never seen before in SHIII for the Uboats. The surface ship's smoke was the only thing that was ever modded successfully. But somehow I think he'll find a way to make it all happen as he wants.

[Ubåtskapten]

I'm not especially familiar with the file structure but would'nt it be possible to make the amount of smoke vary the same way the engine sound changes when you order an other speed? if for example the smoke graphic-files could be linked with the sound or speed setting-files somehow. :hmm:

[GoldenRivet]

nice work privateer

i have been out of town and havt not been able to keep up with this thread... but i have a couple of things you might consider that i would like to add to the dicussion if i may.

Your post about the smoke going away when decks awash and when submerged is right on (obviously) but you might alos consider that the U-boat would likely only make a substantial or noticable exhaust smoke when running the diesels at ahead full or ahead flank.

anyone who has run a diesel engine knows... you cant really see a lot of exhaust gasses exiting the pipe unless you really throttle it to her. Think of a mack truck or something passing you on the highway...when the driver puts more throttle to it is when you really see the most smoke, also when starting from a dead stop. as the engine is turning out high RPM at these times... but at lower RPM such as when idle or when cruising the exhaust is virtually invisible.

Im sure the big U-boat diesels would behave in quite the same way.

Just a thought.

EDIT: i see this has been discussed a little bit already. thats what i get for skipping ahead ;-) perhaps you could tie it to speed or RPM or something similar?

[Mush Martin]

My two cents

does AI percieve it as fog and have difficulty hitting you
if the smokescreen is between you and the enemy?

M

[Maraz]

My two cents

does AI percieve it as fog and have difficulty hitting you
if the smokescreen is between you and the enemy?

M

No, as far as I understand this will only be eye candy. Not easier, nor more difficult, for the AI to spot you.

Maraz

[sergbuto]

I have noticed in several photos and books and movies the very light exhaust smoke coming from the stern of the U-boats especially when the diesels are turning out high RPM. its not a lot, but it is noticable.
To me, most of photos of subs going with significant speed show no noticable smoke at all. Therefore, noticable smoke probably means some kind of trouble with the engine (not necessarily serious but simply weared).

[Rubini]

Good work Privateer!

As Sergs said this smoke can't be so much visible. But will be great to have a very discrete one that could be a bit more noticiable (only a bit) when the uboat is in "high" speed surfaced! The colour must be a white gray I guess.
The trick is to make the smoke only a slight noticeable one.
This will be a great addition to sim feeling.:up:

[GoldenRivet]

see here... http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=506874#post506874

one video shows a very brief split second filming of the aft of the sub as they increase speed to chase a sighted ship... if you look closely you can see a puff of exhaust smoke.

[Hitman]

To me, most of photos of subs going with significant speed show no noticable smoke at all. Therefore, noticable smoke probably means some kind of trouble with the engine (not necessarily serious but simply weared).

You are right in that a weary diesel engine produces more smoke, but the WW2 time diesel engines, -like modern ones but less noticeably in the latter- cause a huge smoke cloud when suddenly increasing revs. You might have noticed in a diesel car that travels ahead of you in the highway a sudden smoke cloud when the driver goes from 5th to 4th gear to overtake. I have read a personal account from Reinhard Hardegen where he explains how, during Operation Drumbeat, he suddenly spotted a gunship and inverted course while applying full throttle to engines and reducting gear (yes, subs also have different final ratios and also clutch) and the smoke coming out of the exhaust was enough to cover him so that the gunboat could no longer see the U-Boat. Also, O'Kane narrates similar experiences aboard Tang:up:

IMO the conclusion is: When cruising along at constant speed, smoke should normally not be very noticeable -except in weary engines, as you correctly stated- but in full throttle situations a heavy smoke cloud is completely accurate.

[GoldenRivet]

To me, most of photos of subs going with significant speed show no noticable smoke at all. Therefore, noticable smoke probably means some kind of trouble with the engine (not necessarily serious but simply weared).
You are right in that a weary diesel engine produces more smoke, but the WW2 time diesel engines, -like modern ones but less noticeably in the latter- cause a huge smoke cloud when suddenly increasing revs. You might have noticed in a diesel car that travels ahead of you in the highway a sudden smoke cloud when the driver goes from 5th to 4th gear to overtake. I have read a personal account from Reinhard Hardegen where he explains how, during Operation Drumbeat, he suddenly spotted a gunship and inverted course while applying full throttle to engines and reducting gear (yes, subs also have different final ratios and also clutch) and the smoke coming out of the exhaust was enough to cover him so that the gunboat could no longer see the U-Boat. Also, O'Kane narrates similar experiences aboard Tang:up:

IMO the conclusion is: When cruising along at constant speed, smoke should normally not be very noticeable -except in weary engines, as you correctly stated- but in full throttle situations a heavy smoke cloud is completely accurate.

exactly... anyone who has driven an older model of mercedes benz or diesel truck knows... give it full throttle and you will get the thick black exhaust.

[Madox58]

see here... http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=506874#post506874

one video shows a very brief split second filming of the aft of the sub as they increase speed to chase a sighted ship... if you look closely you can see a puff of exhaust smoke.

Good link!
I watched it several times and spotted smoke several times.
Mostly a very light haze with a heat distorsion around the exhaust area.
Should be easy to simulate this effect.

This could also be done in several versions so a random damage could
cause a heavyer smokeing engine?

As for AI spotting it, not as is at the moment.
I'm sure at could be "Cheated in" if you will.
But I don't think smoke was much of a factor in spotting U-Boats
in WWII?

[GoldenRivet]

I seriously doubt if smoke was a large factor in spotting the U-boats

firstly... the U-boat exhaust smoke is very light even when the engine is turning out a lot of power

secondly, the u-boat has such a low profile in the water you would likley spot another ships smoke LONG before they spotted yours.

[Madox58]

Exactly.
If AI was to be a factor, it should only be done
if a damaged engine effect was used.

Then spareingly.

[capt-jones]

;) i drive heavy earthmoving diesel machinery for a liveing anything up too 400 tonnes and the only time a diesel will smoke is when you open the throttle there is a cloud of black smoke until it reaches maximum revs then the smoke disappears after about 2 seconds ,diesels are not dirty smelly machine that we have come too believe in fact they are very powerful at low revs they have lots of torque and very fuel efficient for thier size hence ships lorries trains cars .white smoke is unburnt fuel e.g . when starting a worn engine there is a lot of white smoke until engine warms up blue smoke is also a worn enigine that is burning oil:smug: i hope this helps and goog luck with the mod "smoke is good people who smoke is bad":rotfl:

[Hitman]

when starting a worn engine there is a lot of white smoke until engine warms up blue smoke is also a worn enigine that is burning oil

To be more precise, white smoke means that oil -lube oil- is being burnt together with the main fuel, which in old engines happens as the tolerances of the rods, valves, camshafts and such have decreased and lube oil leaks into the combustion chamber until the engine warms up and goes to normal tolerances. Blue smoke is more an outlet camshaft & valves common problem of old engines, as fuel is thrown out without the complete burn cycle being completed, and heated in the exhaust.

the only time a diesel will smoke is when you open the throttle there is a cloud of black smoke until it reaches maximum revs then the smoke disappears after about 2 seconds

That's correct. Diesels rev up through adding only fuel to the mixture, not fuel+air like petrol engines, thus the more intensive combustion causes thicker smoke.

[Paajtor]

It doesn't matter that much...at sea, there's nearly always a breeze - or stronger - which will quickly spread the smoke from a relatively small sub-diesel.
Certainly when there are waves, which have an additional disturbing effect on aircurrents at surface-level.

Imagine how an albatros sailes the wind over the waves...smoke from a sub-diesel (emerging at nearly water-level) is more likely to be drawn downwards between two waves...and as soon as it pops over a wave, it's being grabbed by the wind, and dispersed.

In real-life, a watch-crew would probably be earlier alarmed by the smell, then by the sight of diesel-smoke...if the wind is right...and the source is close.

[Kaleun Cook]

In Buchheim's "Das Boot" the commander uses the smoke at flank speed to cover the boat/its wake when they are operating on a convoy and see an escort at 180°...

[JFL1]

This mod looks very promising...
Thanks for your work, Privateer!

[Ubåtskapten]

In this clip the smoke puffs is briefly visible (1:48) and the boat is probably travelling relatively fast while being escorted out from the port.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9JTTGxVbrc&mode=related&search=

[java`s revenge]

Here a photo from my grandfather`s album. A dutch KVII sub.
Normal cruising and no smoke.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/hornetsting/IMG_0972Medium.jpg

[Madox58]

Mostly, from what I've seen, my Diesel trucks,
And old video clips and such is this.

We would see more of a heat distorsion with a very light
whiteishy blueishy, tint from the bridge.

A minute amount of poof, if you will,
as we throttle up.

A slightly stronger tint of white at full throttle, but it should not
be over whelming, just a "dash".

Toss in a "pinch,...NO!!..Not THAT BIG!" of blueish-gray,
and we're close.

If I can get it attached to the Telegraph,
make it "Somewhat" player controllerable,
(by includeing a tweak file)

And include a few magic words.

Would we be close?

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

PLEASE! All this is ment tounge in cheek!
So take it that way. OK?

:rotfl:

[GoldenRivet]

ok so i think we can all agree on a few key points

1. The U-boats DO produce smoke during periods of high powered acceleration.
2. The U-boats DO NOT produce smoke when at normal cruising RPM
3. This mod would be really cool if only someone could find a way to make the smoke appear BRIEFLY (3 seconds or so) under the following conditions...
A. Any time when starting The U-boat from a dead stop
B. Whenever you are on the surface and select the next
highest speed setting on the telegraph.
C. when ahead flank is selected for crash diving

I think we can all also agree that the smoke should not be too dark or too light in color and should be substantially smaller than a merchant's exhaust.

[Madox58]

I think you can tell from the pic I posted it is way smaller.
The new adjustments are lighter, smaller, and nearing the
"heat effect"

[nikbear]

BUMP,any news how this is going privateer,cause it looks fantastic:up:

[Madox58]

Still going through the Sub stuff trying to tie the smoke to the Telegraph.
If I don't find a way there, I may tie it to the prop wake.
At least that would simulate start and stop of engines.

[nikbear]

Excellent,can't wait cause this will really add to the atmos when out on patrol:yep:

[Hitman]

Still going through the Sub stuff trying to tie the smoke to the Telegraph Why not tie it to the tachometer, or even to the screws (If it has to be external)?:hmm: Those are the parts that better represent the current rpm of the engine. You could even tie cavitation underwater to greater smoke on the surface. Sorry if suggesting idiotic things, I'm really not very familiar with modding such things in Sh3:88)

[XanderF]

Any chance of getting a 'preview' download of this?

Ever since seeing the first screenshot, my regular Sh3 patrols just feel...so much more lifeless!

[Madox58]

While I was driveing to Alabama,
I was thinking about a few things I want to checkout.
So sometime between here and Texas in the next week,
I'll try to get something out.
Not sure if it will be one Sub or many yet.
Depends on a few tests yet.

[GoldenRivet]

While I was driveing to Alabama,
I was thinking about a few things I want to checkout.
So sometime between here and Texas in the next week,
I'll try to get something out.
Not sure if it will be one Sub or many yet.
Depends on a few tests yet.

why so much time on the road?

sounds like you will be coming through my neck of the woods on I-20 soon? :up:

[ReallyDedPoet]

Nice work:up:

[GoldenRivet]

ok privateer this link will be the end of your exhaust research.

you're welcome :up:

http://www.subart.net/hunted.htm

in this painting entitled "the hunted" a u-boat is really pouring the coals to it in persuit of a merchant

[Paajtor]

It's an "artist impression":lol:

[GoldenRivet]

aye but an accurate one i might say.

I would imagine that when you first fire up those big diesels and pour the coals to them that might be the scale of the smoke you would see even if it did only last a few seconds.

[Castout]

Get this done quick so i can stop smoking while playin just for the sake of realism

[Paajtor]

What are you smoking, to make it realistic?:rotfl:

[Madox58]

While I was driveing to Alabama,
I was thinking about a few things I want to checkout.
So sometime between here and Texas in the next week,
I'll try to get something out.
Not sure if it will be one Sub or many yet.
Depends on a few tests yet.

why so much time on the road?

sounds like you will be coming through my neck of the woods on I-20 soon? :up:

Our business takes us all over the North American Continent!!
Alaska to Puerto Rico last year!

And if your on the way to Bay City, I'll pass thru!!
On my way to El Paso.

[Castout]

What are you smoking, to make it realistic?:rotfl:
If you insist, any cigarette will do just dip it slightly in diesel fuel:|\\.

[Flybywire]

Hey, wonderful work being done here. I have been gone since the release of SH4. A year ago or so ...maybe much longer...I sugested that we explore this issue. I also posted some photos of U-boats that had the smoke clearly visible. The "whiteish" smoke would be a wonderful add-on. Would it be possible to look in this forum for those photos or would they have been deleted since it was so long ago?

[TarJak]

Looking good. I'd use it. I agree it might be a tad too dark but having seen diesel smoke its not too far from right.

[nikbear]

Any news on how this mod is progressing,really hoping and looking forward to it:yep:

[ReallyDedPoet]

Maybe with the next GWX release:hmm:

RDP

[nikbear]

Spill the beans RDP,what do you know:hmm: eh,anything?;)

[Goetz von B]

Hi guys....Check out the "sticky thread" Sub Skins (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=88849) (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/smartdark/multipage.gif 1 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=88849) 2 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=88849&page=2) 3 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=88849&page=3) 4 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=88849&page=4) 5 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=88849&page=5) ... Last Page (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=88849&page=25)) http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/smartdark/rating_5.gif by fubar at the top of the SH3 Mods Workshop. Looks like diesel smoke coming out the rear of the sub in the photo.

Regards

GvB

[XanderF]

Hi guys....Check out the "sticky thread" Sub Skins (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=88849) (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/smartdark/multipage.gif 1 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=88849) 2 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=88849&page=2) 3 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=88849&page=3) 4 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=88849&page=4) 5 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=88849&page=5) ... Last Page (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=88849&page=25)) http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/smartdark/rating_5.gif by fubar at the top of the SH3 Mods Workshop. Looks like diesel smoke coming out the rear of the sub in the photo.

Regards

GvB

Huh. How about that, right there on the first page.

LOL!

[petbse]

Privateer: I am being curios about the technic you used to produce such thing. For example how do you do make the smoke dissappear under water. :ping: Do you specify some condition or is it normal behavior of SH3 engine that particles dissapear when submerged? Which datafiles did you alter? I am learning the moding capabilities of SH3 now and I am too lazy to learn everything the hard way(change hex, play game for hours to find out it changed the flapping frequency for seagulls wings :D)
If you would be so nice and describe briefly the developement process. Thank you very much, I know that you are bussy at this and maybe all moments :D BTW nice work you certainly know how the SH3 engine rocks.:rock:;)

[Madox58]

There really is no easy way unless you study the files.
Sorry.
But they disappear by setting VisibleUnder water.
If you can study hex, a beta will be appearing
very soon. you can look at the early version then.
I'd say, a day or two and you'll have a sub released with it.

[Mush Martin]

In the last week I have read three seperate accounts
that indicated active use of diesel exhaust as a smokescreen
at night, although the implication was that as much as it
would obscure the subs outline at night, in daylight
it would draw unwanted attention.

MM

[Madox58]

This is for the GWX 9d2 only.
http://files.filefront.com/Sub_Exhaust_9d2_Beta7z/;7497230;/fileinfo.html

[GoldenRivet]

very cool, an excellent starting point! :up:

hope you can find a way to set the smoke to flank, or a speed of over XX knots or something like that. it worked fine, and the smoke didnt seem to want to go away when i shut the diesels off by going all stop though.

Great work !!

[Ubåtskapten]

Have just tried your beta release.
Some really nice work there mate. :up:

Would of course be cool, if it's possible, with less smoke at lower rpm and none at full stop (if the engine is not just idling at neutral?!).

[Madox58]

Scaleability and start stop of the smoke is under construction.
This was just a teaser and preview since it really doesn't show up well in
screen shots.

[CaptainCox]

Still...dam nice work there man!
Could you at least say what software you are using here. 3DS MAX? or any other 3d software? I have been thinking on how to do some stuff like the rocks on the sea bed smaller in SH4, and if you could give me some hints there I would be a very happy chappy :yep:

And what kind of converter would one need to open up SH3/4 files in a 3d prog?

[Madox58]

All I used for the smoke I'm working on is a hex editor.
For what your thinking of doing, any 3d program that
allows you to work with object files will do.
I use 3ds max 9.
Alot of others use Wings 3d (it's free)
Pack3d will export and import to the dat files.
Although, it is not built for SH4 and there are problems
to be resolved useing it with SH4.
For rocks and such it may be fine as they would not need
the TMAPs that ships use, I believe.

[CaptainCox]

Great info man. Thanks!

[nikbear]

Going to give this a BUMP cause I'd really like to know if there's any info on its development:hmm:

[Webster]

ok, so when can we expect the completed mod ready for download?

[danlisa]

ok, so when can we expect the completed mod ready for download?

:rotfl: You can wait as long as you like.:yep: You may not have noticed but Privateer has been keelhauled.

AKA - banned.

One of the few who could make this (and other) things happen.

:nope:

[Paajtor]

WTF?!?:o

What? Why? Where? :confused:

[Dowly]

WTF?!?:o

What? Why? Where? :confused:

No idea, but must have been something really bad as I think he didnt have any brig time before this. Straight to 'Keelhauled'. :nope:

[Paajtor]

What's going on with this place? Why don't we just get along with each other.

[Letum]

I wouldn't normally ask, but as he has been such an active member I would like to know a little of the circumstances that lead to his banning.
Mods?

[GoldenRivet]

odd - im just hearing about this... why was he banned????

:nope:

[Webster]

ok, so when can we expect the completed mod ready for download?

:rotfl: You can wait as long as you like.:yep: You may not have noticed but Privateer has been keelhauled.

AKA - banned.

One of the few who could make this (and other) things happen.

:nope:

are you sure keelhauled means banned? or do you know something we don't?

i was under the impression the icons and tags over them were totally random and meaningless.

i noticed he often disappears a few days because he's always on the road.

i checked his posts for the last few days and saw nothing to cause being banned.

[GoldenRivet]

yeah its gotta be BS... i couldnt imagine why he would get $hit canned just all the sudden.

[danlisa]

No point checking, the offending posts have been deleted.

There are only 2 avatars here at Subsim which are permanent/semi-permanent. 'In the Brig' & 'Keelhauled'.

AKA - Suspended & Banned

I can assure you, this is not BS. Privateer has been BANNED!

I suspect that the mods line as to why Privateer was banned would be along the lines of "Could not play nicely with others".:rotfl:

Although this is very sudden, we are not privy to any warnings issued by PM, however, it is a shame to loose someone so talented.

I can think of Privateer & one other who can almost fix any aspect of SH3/SH4.

[Hitman]

Privateers keelhauling was deeply considered before the action was taken. There were founded reasons for doing so, and obviously a very bad infraction of subsim's rules was the cause. I can ask Neal if he agrees to make public the reasons; there is no secrecy involved as far as subsim concerns, but since the keelhauled member can't any longer give his own version it is usually more polite not to give much publicity to a behaviour that was not acceptable.:hmm:

[Dowly]

Yeh, I'd like to hear the reason. It must be something VERY VERY VERY bad, as isnt keelhauling the last option?

[danlisa]

It's got to be more serious than bad language or personal attacks as those usually only warrant warnings. Unless he already had 2 warnings.:hmm:

I still maintain that Subsim has lost out in keelhauling Privateer as he is capable of fixing many issues that usually require code alterations.

However, the circumstances would have required the action taken. Still I would like to know as the posts that I recall from Privateer certainly didn't require an outright ban.

This is my opinion and separate to any affiliations.

[Hitman]

Still I would like to know as the posts that I recall from Privateer certainly didn't require an outright ban.


Certainly not the ones you know.

Janus est eo quem in veritas intimum esse

[danlisa]

I am refering to the 'Richard Cranium' ones and all that followed but you maybe right, I might have missed some. Blasted time difference.:lol:

[Cheapskate]

Still I would like to know as the posts that I recall from Privateer certainly didn't require an outright ban.


Certainly not the ones you know.

Janus est eo quem in veritas intimum esse

:o OOH The plot thickens....or is it sickens?

Were Privateer's sins committed on open forum?

[Jimbuna]

Yeh, I'd like to hear the reason. It must be something VERY VERY VERY bad, as isnt keelhauling the last option?

Same here :yep:

[CaptainCox]

DAM!, so he is really banned. :( To me he was always super helpful and stuff. I read up on a lot of hes tut's on hexing, and man! did he know hexing..but why banned :o ? like someone said must have been pretty hard as he did not even go in the brig. AFAIK he was on a long business trip and could not really get involved and stuff...so this is really out of the blue!

[Ubåtskapten]

This was sad news, and a loss of a talented person. :shifty:
I also wonder what he did to get banned, and will he get a second chance?:hmm:

[Webster]

it is always a shame when a member gets banned for any reason.

[XanderF]

So...had anyone been able to make contact with him before the banning?

Download any part of this mod?

IE., do we have anything to go on to keep working on this project? It seems REALLY impressive, it'd be a damn shame to lose all this work forever, and I don't know of anyone else having any luck in this area.

[nikbear]

So...had anyone been able to make contact with him before the banning?

Download any part of this mod?

IE., do we have anything to go on to keep working on this project? It seems REALLY impressive, it'd be a damn shame to lose all this work forever, and I don't know of anyone else having any luck in this area.
It would appear that this promising mod went with privateer:nope: such a shame cause as you rightly pointed out,it was really very impressive.Bugger:damn:

[d@rk51d3]

Yeh, I'd like to hear the reason. It must be something VERY VERY VERY bad, as isnt keelhauling the last option?

Same here :yep:


General description / reason for ban is given under his avatar.:cry:

[ichso]

I just stumpled upon this mod and think it shouldn't be too hard to to bring it to life again. I compared privateer's beta upload of his smoked IXD2 version to the one in my data folder.
He edited the .sim file for this uboat type by inserting a relatively long section for the exhaust smoke into it. This section is quite readable.

It introduces a FastParticleGenerator object and sets many variables for it, like the emission area, density and lifetime of the particles. Viewed in a hexeditor it would be no problem to alter some of the values to improve the mod a bit. If necessary.

The most part of it should be to insert the whole section into the sim files for all the other uboat types. All in all this sounds as it wouldn't be not much work.

Much more might be to do if one is about to finetune the mod's settings. As I don't have sooo much spare time and my SH3 takes quite long to load at this machine.

But I will install the IXD2 beta version of this mod and if it runs properly I will insert the changes into the other type's sim files. I will then see what needs to be altered for the other boats. For the most part it should be a matter of WHERE the particles are created. The long type IXD2 has it's exhaust smoke at it's very end of it's hull so the particles should be created more to the front if used with a Type II for example.

Is anyone else still into modding this stuff ? Let me know so that no work is done twice at the same time :yep:

[Mush Martin]

its still being worked on a bit at a time by Privateer
the current version is the dat currently being used
by Uber 2.4 the problems it still has are only that
it emits on a single side otherwise the exhaust
looks great for density hieght and endurance
regarding normal subs ,
M

[Mush Martin]

Unrelated but when in stormy weather and trying to maintain
a high surface speed in the face of a Gale it helps quite a
bit to put up the schnorkel as you dont lose major knots
when under the big ones.
M

[ReallyDedPoet]

Unrelated but when in stormy weather and trying to maintain
a high surface speed in the face of a Gale it helps quite a
bit to put up the schnorkel as you dont lose major knots
when under the big ones.
M

Admiral, is there a limit to the speed with regards to the schnorkel.

RDP

[Mush Martin]

its just a rough weather tip for intercepts on tough nights.

Im not following the question.
M

[ReallyDedPoet]

its just a rough weather tip for intercepts on tough nights.

Im not following the question.
M

Think I answered it. Sent you a PM.


RDP

[ichso]

And of what is this mod currently ? The beta release looks really good but yet also unfinished. The smoke is absolutely independent from the set speed, heading and wind. Though the thing with the wind seems to be impossible to do in a mod.

[Mush Martin]

Really the dat from uber always emits it in a trail aft of the sub
linear with the wake. its duration causes it to curve when you turn
but its only maybe a boatlength long before it fades out which is close
enough to accurate. its a nice piece of ambience for the game.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e368/MartinPicfix/SH3Img13-5-2007_18-1.jpg
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e368/MartinPicfix/SH3Img13-5-2007_18.jpg
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e368/MartinPicfix/SH3Img13-5-2007_17.jpg

[Mush Martin]

this mod also demonsrates the effectiveness of even light smoke
in hiding you at night from the enemy lookouts I took some screenies
the other day but there quite dark (naturally) where in
I took a pic of the horizon where no sub appears at all and
you cant see a thing unusual but when you raise the
camera vertically about fifty feet for the next pic
you can see the sub barely a kilometer away.
it was very revealing

the debate raged about how big and how long exhuast should
last and be visibe, this is a good compromise ive seen
plenty of pix and vids that show smoke in normal operations
particularly when accellerating. the bench mark I advised
was make it similar to diesel locomotives as thats where
the engines came from.
M

[nikbear]

I'm so pleased that this mod isn't dead and is still being worked on,great news:up:

[TheDarkWraith]

no this mod is not dead! I've been working on this for the VIIb and I've got the smoke to work but I have some questions on the file structure if someone can help me here :o The smoke exits at the back of the sub on the left side for the VIIb currently. Great - problem is the smoke is over the water and not on the sub (located just a little bit left of the sub over the water).

I'm going to apologize now if this is hard to read. It makes sense to me so hopefully it will to you also :doh:

privateer inserted a particle generator to make the smoke. Easy enough. What isn't easy (for me) is figuring out how he placed the smoke where it is...anybody got any insight into this (along with some others questions I have)? It's somewhere in this:

1 04 00 00 00 64 00 00 00 42 00 00 00 A0 07 18 D2 ; ....d...B... ..Ò
2 2C 06 09 2D B4 F7 C2 03 E9 A8 40 2C 00 00 00 00 ; ,..-´÷Â.é¨@,....
3 00 00 00 00 00 01 71 3D 8A BE 31 08 2C 3D 1F 85 ; ......q=Š¾1.,=.…
4 3B C0 CD CC AC 3F 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ; ;ÀÍ̬?..........
5 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 08 00 ; ................
6 00 00 00 00 00 00 15 00 00 00 A0 07 18 D2 2C 06 ; .......... ..Ò,.
7 09 2D 23 53 75 62 5F 65 78 68 61 75 73 74 00 0A ; .-#Sub_exhaust..
8 00 00 00 FF FF FF FF 27 00 00 00 18 4A 53 CF 79 ; ...ÿÿÿÿ'....JSÏy
9 B3 CE 0C A0 07 18 D2 2C 06 09 2D 00 46 61 73 74 ; ³Î. ..Ò,..-.Fast
10 50 61 72 74 69 63 6C 65 47 65 6E 65 72 61 74 6F ; ParticleGenerato
11 72 00 06 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 CB 0B 00 00 18 4A ; r.........Ë....J
12 53 CF 79 B3 CE 0C 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 B7 0B ; SÏy³Î.........·.
13 00 00 B3 0B 00 00 46 61 73 74 50 61 72 74 69 63 ; ..³...FastPartic
14 6C 65 47 65 6E 65 72 61 74 6F 72 00 19 00 00 00 ; leGenerator.....

now breaking down the above I've come up with the following:

it appears that 04 00 00 00 64 00 00 00 42 00 00 00 is the code used to define a new object or something.
in line 1 & 2 we define the new object as: A0 07 18 D2 2C 06 09 2D (now how did he come up with this?)
it is referenced to the sub which is object: B4 F7 C2 03 E9 A8 40 2C (remember this is for the VIIb. Privateer had originally made this mod for the 9d2 which is 24 49 78 E1 81 74 54 20 - where do these come from? How do you find this out?)
Now immediately after 2C 06 09 2D B4 F7 C2 03 E9 A8 40 2C in line 2 to before A0 07 18 D2 2C 06 in line 6 is a mystery to me. Is this where we define the location of the new object (smoke)? If yes, how do you read this?

on line 6 starting at A0 07 18 D2 2C 06 we reference the new object again and then give it a name - that being #Sub_exhaust followed by a null termination character (00).

Now the 0A000000FFFFFFFF starting at the end of line 7 and finishing on line 8 appears to 'end' a record so to speak or close a field??

The 27000000 on line 8 seems to be defining a new field or something??

Now the 18 4A 53 CF 79 B3 CE 0C following the above seems to be the new object (FastParticleGenerator) that is referenced to our new smoke object (A0 07 18 D2 2C 06 09 2D) and we give it the name FastParticleGenerator

now after the 72 in line 11 (which is the ending r of Generator in above) there is a 00 which appears to be a null termination character for strings. If you look at all the hex files after every string there is a 00.

Following this 00 in line 11 is 06000000 which does what? Is it defining something? Setting attributes???

Following that is 00 00 00 00 CB 0B 00 00 which is a mystery to me. Buhler???

At the end of line 11 and wrapping to 12 we reference the object 18 4A 53 CF 79 B3 CE 0C again.

After that we have 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 B7 0B 00 00 B3 0B 00 00 which is ??? The mystery gets worse!! Hopefully someone knows.......

After that I've figured out the rest no problem. It's just the above that has me stumped. Someone please help me.

If I can get this information sorted out I might be able to add 2 smoke generators (one to each side of the sub). How cool would that be?? :|\\

[Mush Martin]

Stay tuned............well be right back after a word from our sponsor.
(ill see if I can get in touch with him.)
M

[Mush Martin]

@ Racerboy

Privateer has kindly sent along some help and advice.

first off though he advises that what will help most
is to d/l his guides.7z in his FF page as that file will
explain the file structure and the chunks.

Further he sent this along


Answer:
01 = Show Object
71 3D 8A BE = X position
31 08 2C 3D = Y position
1F 85 4 3B = Z position
and on through your XY, XZ, and YZ positions.

He advised that when choosing id numbers just
randomly choose them.


We hope this helps

MM

[ichso]

Great thanks.
Do you have the link to his download page at FF too ?
I would like to read those things and do some further editing to some things of the exhaust mod.

[TheDarkWraith]

rock on MM! Great news and great help as always. Too bad I have to go to Mexico for 6 days for work tomorrow......well better get busy reading and editing hex code! :rock:

[Mush Martin]

rock on MM! Great news and great help as always. Too bad I have to go to Mexico for 6 days for work tomorrow......well better get busy reading and editing hex code! :rock:
@ Racerboy
You suffer so..............................


@ ichso Ill see if I can locate it Im sure I have it somewhere

MM

[TheDarkWraith]

I do suffer! I travel internationally for what I do...and I love it!

I've uploaded a WIP exhaust mod for the VIIb sub. The smoke isn't exactly in the right position but it will be corrected as I digest some new information learned. The thickness, color, etc. will also be corrected.

This mod was based on the GWX 1.03 NSS_UBoat7b.sim file

you're looking for the file GWX_-_TDRs_VIIb_exh_WIP.zip

once again, JSGME friendly! unzip to MODS folder.

http://hosted.filefront.com/TazmanianDevilR/

[ichso]

I do suffer! I travel internationally for what I do...and I love it!

I've uploaded a WIP exhaust mod for the VIIb sub. The smoke isn't exactly in the right position but it will be corrected as I digest some new information learned. The thickness, color, etc. will also be corrected.

This mod was based on the GWX 1.03 NSS_UBoat7b.sim file

you're looking for the file GWX_-_TDRs_VIIb_exh_WIP.zip

once again, JSGME friendly! unzip to MODS folder.

http://hosted.filefront.com/TazmanianDevilR/

I will definitely test it !
Has anyone any idea if this mod can be used somewhat dynamically ? I mean that the amount of smoke is influenced by the set speed for example.

I wish I had more time to get deeper into this... :cry: Had to do university stuff till now (11:50 p.m.) and have to get up early tomorrow.

[SquareSteelBar]

@ ichso: http://hosted.filefront.com/priater

[ichso]

@ ichso: http://hosted.filefront.com/priater

Thanks :up:

[Mush Martin]

Thanks SSB I was having some difficulties locating it.
M

[TheDarkWraith]

I've been fooling around with a dual exhaust VIIb here and having a little trouble.
Let's say someone wanted to add two particle generators to an object, how exactly does one do that? I copied everything from my first exhaust generator to make a second one. I gave everything it's own tags (I think!) and tested it out. It didn't crash but when i checked to see the smoke there was nothing, not even smoke from the first particle generator. Does anyone know if I just create one FastParticleGenerator only and make ParticleGenerators from that? Does anyone know of any examples currently that use two or more particle generators on an object? Which ship(s) have more than 2 stacks? There's a certain ship that has 4 but can't think of it currently.

If someone can let me know where the exhaust smoke should be coming out of a VIIb I can fix the exhaust smoke modded VIIb I created. Pictures would really help here. ;)

[ichso]

So you have tried to copy the whole section beginning with 'FastParticleGenerator' ? I would have thought that this is the right approach because the following values seem to refere to that one.

One little thing I read though:
Since patch 1.1 it is possible to deactivate the whole particle system ingame. You didn't do that by accident and don't see the smoke because of that, right ? :roll:

[TheDarkWraith]

sure did, I copied the whole entire section dealing with the 'smoke' and pasted it after the original smoke, changed all the tags so that everything was unique and it didn't work (no smoke from either). Really left me scratching my head. :nope:

I'm off to Mexico for a week (for work) so I won't be able to tinker some more with this until I get back home.

[Paajtor]

I'm no expert on this, but if 2 of the same particle-generators seem to rule each other out (like they're "playing" in sync), then maybe it's an idea to try to let them run "out of sync"?
Like - suppose the part.generators work in cycles/ms - the left generator emits at 1ms/3ms/5ms etc, while the right generator emits at 2ms/4ms/6ms etc.

[Paajtor]

I'm no expert on this, but if 2 of the same particle-generators seem to rule each other out (like they're "playing" in sync), then maybe it's an idea to try to let them run "out of sync"?
Like - suppose the part.generators work in cycles/ms - the left generator emits at 1ms/3ms/5ms etc, while the right generator emits at 2ms/4ms/6ms etc.

That way, when one generator is working, the other isn't, and vice versa.

[CaptainCox]

I am pretty sure that this mod will be included in 1.04...not 100% but 99.9 ;)

[Jimbuna]

The CURRENT position (as of literally 2 mins ago) is that there will not be an exhaust mod included with GWX v1.04 :nope:

[Kpt. Lehmann]

The CURRENT position (as of literally 2 mins ago) is that there will not be an exhaust mod included with GWX v1.04 :nope:

Right.

Based on what I understand of deisel engines, the only time you should see smoke is when they start up or when there is a problem.

When the engine comes up to operating temperature there should be very little (if any at all) smoke trace.

Smoke coming from a sub at sea is a big "HERE I AM SHOOT ME!!!" sign, LOL.

This is part of the reason that the IXD1 sub(s) were not used more than once or twice. IIRC there was only one or two IXD1 subs built. (I'm sure someone will come along and correct me here, LOL.) IXD1 engines generated a lot of smoke, both outside and inside the sub.

[Mush Martin]

Well as a supporter of GWX I understand the need to come to a decision
about that. as I posted previously in my own experience I have seen a
fair bit of footage and guite a few pics that show exhaust.
as alluded to earlier its like under normal operations not much different
than a diesel locomotive or the local diesel car ferry.
under acceleration or otherwise in a high state of revs.

In reading accounts about using exhaust as visual cover by Dick Okane
, George Grider , and also alluded to in Uncle Charlies book "sink em all"
as well as IIRC a statement about similar practice by Paul Hartwig (U517)
for me I decided otherwise. besides as an ambience thing its Cool

they're a little dark but heres the shots I talked about in the earlier
post. camera is in the same spot for both pics but raised vertically
approx fifty feet in the second frame.

[edit] (if you looked at these before when they were too dark and they look the same hit refresh now)

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e368/MartinPicfix/EGsmk1.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e368/MartinPicfix/EGsmk2.jpg
M

[Hartmann]

In the das boat book, captain uses exhaust as a cover too.
The old diesel engines are very noisy and make a lot of smoke at high revs.

i have a old diesel car and when i rev up the engine it make a big dark cloud of smoke, more when the engine is cold, like if it was a surfacing u-boat after some time down in the depths. :rotfl:

the only way to reduce the smoke is cleaning the inyectors, and use fuel aditives .

[TheDarkWraith]

I finally got the dual exhaust VIIb working!! :rock: :rock: :rock:

This can easily be applied to any sub, ship, object, etc. Oh I'm having fun now..........

Has small problem with smoke locations but I posed questions here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=590461&postcount=12 looking for answers. I finally figured out how to include pictures in a thread. Man I can read and write hex code but have the darndest time with the simple things :doh:

I started a new thread for dual exhaust on subs:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=118314

[XanderF]

The CURRENT position (as of literally 2 mins ago) is that there will not be an exhaust mod included with GWX v1.04 :nope:

Right.

Based on what I understand of deisel engines, the only time you should see smoke is when they start up or when there is a problem.

When the engine comes up to operating temperature there should be very little (if any at all) smoke trace.

Smoke coming from a sub at sea is a big "HERE I AM SHOOT ME!!!" sign, LOL.

This is part of the reason that the IXD1 sub(s) were not used more than once or twice. IIRC there was only one or two IXD1 subs built. (I'm sure someone will come along and correct me here, LOL.) IXD1 engines generated a lot of smoke, both outside and inside the sub.

Might want to re-watch "Run Silent, Run Deep". Granted, it's 'Hollywood', but they were real subs used for all the filming, and every single shot of them you can see them smoking.

Not MUCH, mind you - but definitely had visible exhaust in every shot in the movie.