[TEC] - Solved !!!! Lost Radar Contacts When Sub Heading South (90-270)

[Mraah]

Hi,

I'm new to modding and was inspired by Ducimus' work on fixing the SD radar. I didn't have a tweak file for the sensors_sub_US so I created one by a thorough search using the "search" command for minitweaker looking for the same parameters of those found in SH3 sensors.dat .

At the end of this post is the cut/paste of the search commands to save you time on finding all the sensors (if you haven't made one yourself).

I found 20 sensors (the 21'st sensor check only revealed BearingMIN/Max data, the 22nd found nothing) so I was confident I found them all. I know most of you modder's have found and changed the SD and SJ radar's, however, appears only the top 4 radar's were changed. Here's the list :

1. SD
2. SJ
3. I-SD
4. I-SJ
5. Visual 1
6. Visual 2
7. Visual 3
8. SV ??? Replaces I-SD. I don't know if used.
9. SJ - On unknown Sub 1 ?
10. SJ - On unknown Sub 2 ?
11. SJ - On unknown Sub 3 ?
12. SJ - On unknown Sub 4 ?
13. Passive Sonar (0-150) (x-x)= bearing restriction
14. Active Sonar (210-360)
15. Passive Sonar (0-140)
16. I-SJ (220-360) - On unknown Sub 1 ? Revolving Radar with bearing restriction?
17. I-SJ (0-150) ALso contains odd data not similar to I-SJ
18. I-SJ (210-360) - On unknown Sub 2 ?
19. I-SJ - On unknown Sub 3 ?
20. I-SJ - On unknown Sub 4 ?


Ok, as you can see, some sensor's are just plain strange!!

Now, let me get back on topic. How to fix the radar so when you steer the boat to any southern heading (90-270) you don't lose radar contact ...

Explaination - How did I dicover this.
I was curious about the ElevationMin/Max entries. From a radar's point of view (and quite possibly the devs intention) the values seemed right. For instance, the SD :

ElevationMin = 359
ElevationMax = 90

Basically meaning, Min of 359 is pointing 1 degree below the horizon, Max of 90 is straight up. The SJ data has Min/Max of 357.5/30 . Looks fine on papar but it appears it's not using those values for that reason.

When trying to "tilt" the SD antenna up so it scan's the air and not the surface I had no luck. So, I played with the ElevationMax entry. Hmmmm, if 90 is up, then 181 must be all the way over the back and 1 degree below the horizon "behind" the antenna. "Lets try that!!", I said as I loaded SH4 for my test run. Hmmm, interesting, I'm now able to maintain radar contacts when the boat steer's 90-270, albeit still seeing all the radar contact's as before.

So, there you have it. The fix is to change ALL SD and SJ entries to read :

ElevationMax=181

I say ALL of them because just changing the "TOP 4" won't work, except for the SD since it lies in the top 4. That's when I figured all the boats have their own SJ radar entry because just changing the top4 had no effect on my test runs with the SJ. By the way, to confirm the SJ was working I had to "dumb-up" the SD so it wouldn't detect beyond 1000m. I haven't tested which boat is which because I wanted to get the info out ASAP. Also, I don't know if any value other than 181 will work. I can guess that any value between 91-358 or 91-357.5 will work, but it's just a WAG.

I might start a lone thread with [WIP] label for my study on the SD and SJ data, if it's appropriate. I'm not creating a new mod but I'd like to help those modder's with this problem (Ducimus appears to have too many lumps on his head) :damn: .

Here's the cut of the search commands to paste into a new sensors_sub_US.txt file if you haven't made one already .... Thanks for listening! ... Rob.


[1]
DropDownName= SD
search,SensorType,1,byte,>2,SensorType
search,PreciseRange,1,single,>2,PreciseRange
search,MaxRange,1,single,>2,MaxRange
search,MinHeight,1,single,>2,MinHeight
search,MaxHeight,1,single,>2,MaxHeight
search,MinSensorHeight,1,single,>2,MinSensorHeight
search,MaxSensorHeight,1,single,>2,MaxSensorHeight
search,Surface,1,single,>2,Surface
search,RPMDetLevel,1,single,>2,RPMDetLevel
search,SweepPeriod,1,single,>2,SweepPeriod
search,SweepArc,1,single,>2,SweepArc
search,ProbInsideArc,1,single,>2,ProbInsideArc
search,Revolving,1,byte,>2,Revolving
search,SkipSweep,1,byte,>2,SkipSweep
search,BearingMin,1,single,>2,BearingMin
search,BearingMax,1,single,>2,BearingMax
search,ElevationMin,1,single,>2,ElevationMin
search,ElevationMax,1,single,>2,ElevationMax

[2]
DropDownName=SJ
search,SensorType,2,byte,>2,SensorType
search,PreciseRange,2,single,>2,PreciseRange
search,MaxRange,2,single,>2,MaxRange
search,MinHeight,2,single,>2,MinHeight
search,MaxHeight,2,single,>2,MaxHeight
search,MinSensorHeight,2,single,>2,MinSensorHeight
search,MaxSensorHeight,2,single,>2,MaxSensorHeight
search,Surface,2,single,>2,Surface
search,RPMDetLevel,2,single,>2,RPMDetLevel
search,SweepPeriod,2,single,>2,SweepPeriod
search,SweepArc,2,single,>2,SweepArc
search,ProbInsideArc,2,single,>2,ProbInsideArc
search,Revolving,2,byte,>2,Revolving
search,SkipSweep,2,byte,>2,SkipSweep
search,BearingMin,2,single,>2,BearingMin
search,BearingMax,2,single,>2,BearingMax
search,ElevationMin,2,single,>2,ElevationMin
search,ElevationMax,2,single,>2,ElevationMax

[3]
DropDownName=SD (improved)
search,SensorType,3,byte,>2,SensorType
search,PreciseRange,3,single,>2,PreciseRange
search,MaxRange,3,single,>2,MaxRange
search,MinHeight,3,single,>2,MinHeight
search,MaxHeight,3,single,>2,MaxHeight
search,MinSensorHeight,3,single,>2,MinSensorHeight
search,MaxSensorHeight,3,single,>2,MaxSensorHeight
search,Surface,3,single,>2,Surface
search,RPMDetLevel,3,single,>2,RPMDetLevel
search,SweepPeriod,3,single,>2,SweepPeriod
search,SweepArc,3,single,>2,SweepArc
search,ProbInsideArc,3,single,>2,ProbInsideArc
search,Revolving,3,byte,>2,Revolving
search,SkipSweep,3,byte,>2,SkipSweep
search,BearingMin,3,single,>2,BearingMin
search,BearingMax,3,single,>2,BearingMax
search,ElevationMin,3,single,>2,ElevationMin
search,ElevationMax,3,single,>2,ElevationMax

[4]
DropDownName=SJ (improved)
search,SensorType,4,byte,>2,SensorType
search,PreciseRange,4,single,>2,PreciseRange
search,MaxRange,4,single,>2,MaxRange
search,MinHeight,4,single,>2,MinHeight
search,MaxHeight,4,single,>2,MaxHeight
search,MinSensorHeight,4,single,>2,MinSensorHeight
search,MaxSensorHeight,4,single,>2,MaxSensorHeight
search,Surface,4,single,>2,Surface
search,RPMDetLevel,4,single,>2,RPMDetLevel
search,SweepPeriod,4,single,>2,SweepPeriod
search,SweepArc,4,single,>2,SweepArc
search,ProbInsideArc,4,single,>2,ProbInsideArc
search,Revolving,4,byte,>2,Revolving
search,SkipSweep,4,byte,>2,SkipSweep
search,BearingMin,4,single,>2,BearingMin
search,BearingMax,4,single,>2,BearingMax
search,ElevationMin,4,single,>2,ElevationMin
search,ElevationMax,4,single,>2,ElevationMax

[5]
DropDownName=Visual 1
search,SensorType,5,byte,>2,SensorType
search,PreciseRange,5,single,>2,PreciseRange
search,MaxRange,5,single,>2,MaxRange
search,MinHeight,5,single,>2,MinHeight
search,MaxHeight,5,single,>2,MaxHeight
search,MinSensorHeight,5,single,>2,MinSensorHeight
search,MaxSensorHeight,5,single,>2,MaxSensorHeight
search,Surface,5,single,>2,Surface
search,RPMDetLevel,5,single,>2,RPMDetLevel
search,SweepPeriod,5,single,>2,SweepPeriod
search,SweepArc,5,single,>2,SweepArc
search,ProbInsideArc,5,single,>2,ProbInsideArc
search,Revolving,5,byte,>2,Revolving
search,SkipSweep,5,byte,>2,SkipSweep
search,BearingMin,5,single,>2,BearingMin
search,BearingMax,5,single,>2,BearingMax
search,ElevationMin,5,single,>2,ElevationMin
search,ElevationMax,5,single,>2,ElevationMax

[6]
DropDownName=Visual 2
search,SensorType,6,byte,>2,SensorType
search,PreciseRange,6,single,>2,PreciseRange
search,MaxRange,6,single,>2,MaxRange
search,MinHeight,6,single,>2,MinHeight
search,MaxHeight,6,single,>2,MaxHeight
search,MinSensorHeight,6,single,>2,MinSensorHeight
search,MaxSensorHeight,6,single,>2,MaxSensorHeight
search,Surface,6,single,>2,Surface
search,RPMDetLevel,6,single,>2,RPMDetLevel
search,SweepPeriod,6,single,>2,SweepPeriod
search,SweepArc,6,single,>2,SweepArc
search,ProbInsideArc,6,single,>2,ProbInsideArc
search,Revolving,6,byte,>2,Revolving
search,SkipSweep,6,byte,>2,SkipSweep
search,BearingMin,6,single,>2,BearingMin
search,BearingMax,6,single,>2,BearingMax
search,ElevationMin,6,single,>2,ElevationMin
search,ElevationMax,6,single,>2,ElevationMax

[7]
DropDownName=Visual 3
search,SensorType,7,byte,>2,SensorType
search,PreciseRange,7,single,>2,PreciseRange
search,MaxRange,7,single,>2,MaxRange
search,MinHeight,7,single,>2,MinHeight
search,MaxHeight,7,single,>2,MaxHeight
search,MinSensorHeight,7,single,>2,MinSensorHeight
search,MaxSensorHeight,7,single,>2,MaxSensorHeight
search,Surface,7,single,>2,Surface
search,RPMDetLevel,7,single,>2,RPMDetLevel
search,SweepPeriod,7,single,>2,SweepPeriod
search,SweepArc,7,single,>2,SweepArc
search,ProbInsideArc,7,single,>2,ProbInsideArc
search,Revolving,7,byte,>2,Revolving
search,SkipSweep,7,byte,>2,SkipSweep
search,BearingMin,7,single,>2,BearingMin
search,BearingMax,7,single,>2,BearingMax
search,ElevationMin,7,single,>2,ElevationMin
search,ElevationMax,7,single,>2,ElevationMax

[8]
DropDownName=SV ???
search,SensorType,8,byte,>2,SensorType
search,PreciseRange,8,single,>2,PreciseRange
search,MaxRange,8,single,>2,MaxRange
search,MinHeight,8,single,>2,MinHeight
search,MaxHeight,8,single,>2,MaxHeight
search,MinSensorHeight,8,single,>2,MinSensorHeight
search,MaxSensorHeight,8,single,>2,MaxSensorHeight
search,Surface,8,single,>2,Surface
search,RPMDetLevel,8,single,>2,RPMDetLevel
search,SweepPeriod,8,single,>2,SweepPeriod
search,SweepArc,8,single,>2,SweepArc
search,ProbInsideArc,8,single,>2,ProbInsideArc
search,Revolving,8,byte,>2,Revolving
search,SkipSweep,8,byte,>2,SkipSweep
search,BearingMin,8,single,>2,BearingMin
search,BearingMax,8,single,>2,BearingMax
search,ElevationMin,8,single,>2,ElevationMin
search,ElevationMax,8,single,>2,ElevationMax

[9]
DropDownName=SJ Unknown Sub 1 ???
search,SensorType,9,byte,>2,SensorType
search,PreciseRange,9,single,>2,PreciseRange
search,MaxRange,9,single,>2,MaxRange
search,MinHeight,9,single,>2,MinHeight
search,MaxHeight,9,single,>2,MaxHeight
search,MinSensorHeight,9,single,>2,MinSensorHeight
search,MaxSensorHeight,9,single,>2,MaxSensorHeight
search,Surface,9,single,>2,Surface
search,RPMDetLevel,9,single,>2,RPMDetLevel
search,SweepPeriod,9,single,>2,SweepPeriod
search,SweepArc,9,single,>2,SweepArc
search,ProbInsideArc,9,single,>2,ProbInsideArc
search,Revolving,9,byte,>2,Revolving
search,SkipSweep,9,byte,>2,SkipSweep
search,BearingMin,9,single,>2,BearingMin
search,BearingMax,9,single,>2,BearingMax
search,ElevationMin,9,single,>2,ElevationMin
search,ElevationMax,9,single,>2,ElevationMax

[10]
DropDownName=SJ Unknown Sub 2 ???
search,SensorType,10,byte,>2,SensorType
search,PreciseRange,10,single,>2,PreciseRange
search,MaxRange,10,single,>2,MaxRange
search,MinHeight,10,single,>2,MinHeight
search,MaxHeight,10,single,>2,MaxHeight
search,MinSensorHeight,10,single,>2,MinSensorHeight
search,MaxSensorHeight,10,single,>2,MaxSensorHeight
search,Surface,10,single,>2,Surface
search,RPMDetLevel,10,single,>2,RPMDetLevel
search,SweepPeriod,10,single,>2,SweepPeriod
search,SweepArc,10,single,>2,SweepArc
search,ProbInsideArc,10,single,>2,ProbInsideArc
search,Revolving,10,byte,>2,Revolving
search,SkipSweep,10,byte,>2,SkipSweep
search,BearingMin,10,single,>2,BearingMin
search,BearingMax,10,single,>2,BearingMax
search,ElevationMin,10,single,>2,ElevationMin
search,ElevationMax,10,single,>2,ElevationMax

[11]
DropDownName=SJ Unknown Sub 3 ???
search,SensorType,11,byte,>2,SensorType
search,PreciseRange,11,single,>2,PreciseRange
search,MaxRange,11,single,>2,MaxRange
search,MinHeight,11,single,>2,MinHeight
search,MaxHeight,11,single,>2,MaxHeight
search,MinSensorHeight,11,single,>2,MinSensorHeight
search,MaxSensorHeight,11,single,>2,MaxSensorHeight
search,Surface,11,single,>2,Surface
search,RPMDetLevel,11,single,>2,RPMDetLevel
search,SweepPeriod,11,single,>2,SweepPeriod
search,SweepArc,11,single,>2,SweepArc
search,ProbInsideArc,11,single,>2,ProbInsideArc
search,Revolving,11,byte,>2,Revolving
search,SkipSweep,11,byte,>2,SkipSweep
search,BearingMin,11,single,>2,BearingMin
search,BearingMax,11,single,>2,BearingMax
search,ElevationMin,11,single,>2,ElevationMin
search,ElevationMax,11,single,>2,ElevationMax

[12]
DropDownName=SJ Unknown Sub 4 ???
search,SensorType,12,byte,>2,SensorType
search,PreciseRange,12,single,>2,PreciseRange
search,MaxRange,12,single,>2,MaxRange
search,MinHeight,12,single,>2,MinHeight
search,MaxHeight,12,single,>2,MaxHeight
search,MinSensorHeight,12,single,>2,MinSensorHeight
search,MaxSensorHeight,12,single,>2,MaxSensorHeight
search,Surface,12,single,>2,Surface
search,RPMDetLevel,12,single,>2,RPMDetLevel
search,SweepPeriod,12,single,>2,SweepPeriod
search,SweepArc,12,single,>2,SweepArc
search,ProbInsideArc,12,single,>2,ProbInsideArc
search,Revolving,12,byte,>2,Revolving
search,SkipSweep,12,byte,>2,SkipSweep
search,BearingMin,12,single,>2,BearingMin
search,BearingMax,12,single,>2,BearingMax
search,ElevationMin,12,single,>2,ElevationMin
search,ElevationMax,12,single,>2,ElevationMax

[13]
DropDownName=Passive Sonar (0-150)
search,SensorType,13,byte,>2,SensorType
search,PreciseRange,13,single,>2,PreciseRange
search,MaxRange,13,single,>2,MaxRange
search,MinHeight,13,single,>2,MinHeight
search,MaxHeight,13,single,>2,MaxHeight
search,MinSensorHeight,13,single,>2,MinSensorHeight
search,MaxSensorHeight,13,single,>2,MaxSensorHeight
search,Surface,13,single,>2,Surface
search,RPMDetLevel,13,single,>2,RPMDetLevel
search,SweepPeriod,13,single,>2,SweepPeriod
search,SweepArc,13,single,>2,SweepArc
search,ProbInsideArc,13,single,>2,ProbInsideArc
search,Revolving,13,byte,>2,Revolving
search,SkipSweep,13,byte,>2,SkipSweep
search,BearingMin,13,single,>2,BearingMin
search,BearingMax,13,single,>2,BearingMax
search,ElevationMin,13,single,>2,ElevationMin
search,ElevationMax,13,single,>2,ElevationMax

[14]
DropDownName=Active Sonar (210-360)
search,SensorType,14,byte,>2,SensorType
search,PreciseRange,14,single,>2,PreciseRange
search,MaxRange,14,single,>2,MaxRange
search,MinHeight,14,single,>2,MinHeight
search,MaxHeight,14,single,>2,MaxHeight
search,MinSensorHeight,14,single,>2,MinSensorHeight
search,MaxSensorHeight,14,single,>2,MaxSensorHeight
search,Surface,14,single,>2,Surface
search,RPMDetLevel,14,single,>2,RPMDetLevel
search,SweepPeriod,14,single,>2,SweepPeriod
search,SweepArc,14,single,>2,SweepArc
search,ProbInsideArc,14,single,>2,ProbInsideArc
search,Revolving,14,byte,>2,Revolving
search,SkipSweep,14,byte,>2,SkipSweep
search,BearingMin,14,single,>2,BearingMin
search,BearingMax,14,single,>2,BearingMax
search,ElevationMin,14,single,>2,ElevationMin
search,ElevationMax,14,single,>2,ElevationMax

[15]
DropDownName=Passive Sonar (0-140)
search,SensorType,15,byte,>2,SensorType
search,PreciseRange,15,single,>2,PreciseRange
search,MaxRange,15,single,>2,MaxRange
search,MinHeight,15,single,>2,MinHeight
search,MaxHeight,15,single,>2,MaxHeight
search,MinSensorHeight,15,single,>2,MinSensorHeight
search,MaxSensorHeight,15,single,>2,MaxSensorHeight
search,Surface,15,single,>2,Surface
search,RPMDetLevel,15,single,>2,RPMDetLevel
search,SweepPeriod,15,single,>2,SweepPeriod
search,SweepArc,15,single,>2,SweepArc
search,ProbInsideArc,15,single,>2,ProbInsideArc
search,Revolving,15,byte,>2,Revolving
search,SkipSweep,15,byte,>2,SkipSweep
search,BearingMin,15,single,>2,BearingMin
search,BearingMax,15,single,>2,BearingMax
search,ElevationMin,15,single,>2,ElevationMin
search,ElevationMax,15,single,>2,ElevationMax

[16]
DropDownName=Radar Revolving (220-360) SJ Improved ??
search,SensorType,16,byte,>2,SensorType
search,PreciseRange,16,single,>2,PreciseRange
search,MaxRange,16,single,>2,MaxRange
search,MinHeight,16,single,>2,MinHeight
search,MaxHeight,16,single,>2,MaxHeight
search,MinSensorHeight,16,single,>2,MinSensorHeight
search,MaxSensorHeight,16,single,>2,MaxSensorHeight
search,Surface,16,single,>2,Surface
search,RPMDetLevel,16,single,>2,RPMDetLevel
search,SweepPeriod,16,single,>2,SweepPeriod
search,SweepArc,16,single,>2,SweepArc
search,ProbInsideArc,16,single,>2,ProbInsideArc
search,Revolving,16,byte,>2,Revolving
search,SkipSweep,16,byte,>2,SkipSweep
search,BearingMin,16,single,>2,BearingMin
search,BearingMax,16,single,>2,BearingMax
search,ElevationMin,16,single,>2,ElevationMin
search,ElevationMax,16,single,>2,ElevationMax

[17]
DropDownName=Radar Revolving (0-150) SJ Improved ??
search,SensorType,17,byte,>2,SensorType
search,PreciseRange,17,single,>2,PreciseRange
search,MaxRange,17,single,>2,MaxRange
search,MinHeight,17,single,>2,MinHeight
search,MaxHeight,17,single,>2,MaxHeight
search,MinSensorHeight,17,single,>2,MinSensorHeight
search,MaxSensorHeight,17,single,>2,MaxSensorHeight
search,Surface,17,single,>2,Surface
search,RPMDetLevel,17,single,>2,RPMDetLevel
search,SweepPeriod,17,single,>2,SweepPeriod
search,SweepArc,17,single,>2,SweepArc
search,ProbInsideArc,17,single,>2,ProbInsideArc
search,Revolving,17,byte,>2,Revolving
search,SkipSweep,17,byte,>2,SkipSweep
search,BearingMin,17,single,>2,BearingMin
search,BearingMax,17,single,>2,BearingMax
search,ElevationMin,17,single,>2,ElevationMin
search,ElevationMax,17,single,>2,ElevationMax

[18]
DropDownName=Radar Revolving (210-360) SJ Improved ??
search,SensorType,18,byte,>2,SensorType
search,PreciseRange,18,single,>2,PreciseRange
search,MaxRange,18,single,>2,MaxRange
search,MinHeight,18,single,>2,MinHeight
search,MaxHeight,18,single,>2,MaxHeight
search,MinSensorHeight,18,single,>2,MinSensorHeight
search,MaxSensorHeight,18,single,>2,MaxSensorHeight
search,Surface,18,single,>2,Surface
search,RPMDetLevel,18,single,>2,RPMDetLevel
search,SweepPeriod,18,single,>2,SweepPeriod
search,SweepArc,18,single,>2,SweepArc
search,ProbInsideArc,18,single,>2,ProbInsideArc
search,Revolving,18,byte,>2,Revolving
search,SkipSweep,18,byte,>2,SkipSweep
search,BearingMin,18,single,>2,BearingMin
search,BearingMax,18,single,>2,BearingMax
search,ElevationMin,18,single,>2,ElevationMin
search,ElevationMax,18,single,>2,ElevationMax

[19]
DropDownName=Radar Revolving 8 SJ Improved ??
search,SensorType,19,byte,>2,SensorType
search,PreciseRange,19,single,>2,PreciseRange
search,MaxRange,19,single,>2,MaxRange
search,MinHeight,19,single,>2,MinHeight
search,MaxHeight,19,single,>2,MaxHeight
search,MinSensorHeight,19,single,>2,MinSensorHeight
search,MaxSensorHeight,19,single,>2,MaxSensorHeight
search,Surface,19,single,>2,Surface
search,RPMDetLevel,19,single,>2,RPMDetLevel
search,SweepPeriod,19,single,>2,SweepPeriod
search,SweepArc,19,single,>2,SweepArc
search,ProbInsideArc,19,single,>2,ProbInsideArc
search,Revolving,19,byte,>2,Revolving
search,SkipSweep,19,byte,>2,SkipSweep
search,BearingMin,19,single,>2,BearingMin
search,BearingMax,19,single,>2,BearingMax
search,ElevationMin,19,single,>2,ElevationMin
search,ElevationMax,19,single,>2,ElevationMax

[20]
DropDownName=Radar Revolving 9 SJ Improved ??
search,SensorType,20,byte,>2,SensorType
search,PreciseRange,20,single,>2,PreciseRange
search,MaxRange,20,single,>2,MaxRange
search,MinHeight,20,single,>2,MinHeight
search,MaxHeight,20,single,>2,MaxHeight
search,MinSensorHeight,20,single,>2,MinSensorHeight
search,MaxSensorHeight,20,single,>2,MaxSensorHeight
search,Surface,20,single,>2,Surface
search,RPMDetLevel,20,single,>2,RPMDetLevel
search,SweepPeriod,20,single,>2,SweepPeriod
search,SweepArc,20,single,>2,SweepArc
search,ProbInsideArc,20,single,>2,ProbInsideArc
search,Revolving,20,byte,>2,Revolving
search,SkipSweep,20,byte,>2,SkipSweep
search,BearingMin,20,single,>2,BearingMin
search,BearingMax,20,single,>2,BearingMax
search,ElevationMin,20,single,>2,ElevationMin
search,ElevationMax,20,single,>2,ElevationMax

[Ducimus]

:o wow Good work.

Your right, my head is rather lumpy. Got stuck in a box and couldnt get out of it. I never did fix that bloody SD radar on surface contacts. The instant i thought i had it, id run a career patrol and find out otherwise.

[Mraah]

:o wow Good work.

Your right, my head is rather lumpy. Got stuck in a box and couldnt get out of it. I never did fix that bloody SD radar on surface contacts. The instant i thought i had it, id run a career patrol and find out otherwise.

Ducimus,

When I was reading your post's on the SD work I was going to suggest a really off-the-wall solution to the problem. You gave me the idea when you said you were going to view the SD as a Naxos/Metox system. :hmm:

Solution:

Change the SensorType value to 4 (radar warning receiver).
Install a radar set to all the IJN aircraft!!!

LOL. Why not, they appear to have the uncanning ability of finding the sub anyway. All jokes aside, not a good idea. I've read the SD could pick up surface contacts, and rightfully so, just not as good as the stock SH4 radar, so it needs to be an active radar. It is emitting RF energy so bascially a ships mast 35 meters above the surface is just an airborne object attached the ground.

I'm going to see how lumps it takes in my tea before I give up!! :damn:

Rob

[Beery]

Could it be that they wanted to restrict the radar based on the sub's prop noise and instead what they did was restrict it based on the heading?

[CaptainCox]

But radar has nothing to do with noise or... I know that the German "Boot's" had a limited angle on their radar, a sort of 30-45 dgr "static" arc in front of the boat. I guess the American system was different as they developed radar together with the Britt's.
Short on US Radar
RADAR (Radio Detection And Ranging) was initially installed on US sub's during the latter part of 1941 when the USS Plunger field tested the first version during an actual war patrol. It was a rather primitive and unreliable setup called the SD. Having a limited range (6 - 10 miles), it was non-directional and primarily useful in detecting enemy aircraft.
http://www.valoratsea.com/radar.htm
Acording to that article Radar was improved around 42-43

[Mraah]

Could it be that they wanted to restrict the radar based on the sub's prop noise and instead what they did was restrict it based on the heading?

Berry,

Good question :up: . But prop noise wouldn't restrict radar, mast obstruction would.

It does bring up another point though ... In my original post I mentioned that there was a 21'st entry found, only with BearingMin/Max info. Perhaps this is the heading restriction the program supposed to read and compare it with other parameter's. I dunno.

I think their intention was to simulate the actual beam width.
The SJ H.P. beam width:
Horizontal 9 degrees.
Vertical 29 degrees.

This coincides somewhat with the ElevationMin=357.5 Max=30, SweepArc=9.

Elevation Min/Max numbers for even the sonar show 0 and 360, which makes sense, but not observed as a bug since it covered 360 degree's of the sub heading.

Radar # 16,17, and 18 have bearing restrictions, which, if I'm right, means that three boat classes had mast assembies that blocked radar coverage, not because of prop noise. Both the SJ and I-SJ was located on the front on the mast assembly so as it rotated through, say between 150-210, it might have stopped radiating because the lobe would interfere with the SD (jamming) or reflected energy could "burn" the watch crew!! :oops: . The SJ on the earlier boats might not have had a problem. I'd have to physically look.

It's really a mystery about what's going on.

Rob

[Beery]

Could it be that they wanted to restrict the radar based on the sub's prop noise and instead what they did was restrict it based on the heading?

Berry,

Good question :up: . But prop noise wouldn't restrict radar, mast obstruction would.

Well the question is, does the developer in charge of implementing radar know that? If not, then he could easily have tried to put in a radar that had a blind spot at 180 degrees bearing (i.e. behind the boat) and accidentally put in a blind spot at 180 degrees on the compass (i.e. South). It's not a question of what restricts radar - it's a question of what the developer might have been thinking when he made the feature.

[CaptainCox]

Not really related but if you guys have not seen this its a good read on "Sonar" I thought they also had the "Radar" manual" but they did not.
http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/sonar/index.htm

[Meridian]

Just edited the file and tested. My heading is 150 and i've just picked up a huge convoy behind me, nice job.

[E.Hartmann]

Where is this file located?

What folder?

[ref]

To clarify things a bit, all bearings in the sensors are relative to the submarine, 0º is front and 180º is back, the restrictions are, because of that also relative to the sub position.

BTW. here's the full mini tweaker file for the sensors:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=109069&highlight=%5Brel%5D

I really recomend using the search function in the forums, I know how hard is to make a tweak file by hand...

Ref

[Redwine]

Where is this file located?

What folder?
The file to be modified is :

Sensors_sub_US.sim

it is into :

C:\...\Ubisoft\Silent Hunter 4 Wolves of the Pacific\Data\Library\USSubParts

But you need to have the MiniTweaker program from TimeTraveller, plus the template file Sensors_sub_US_sim.txt

To create one, use the job shared here by Mraah....



1]
Create a .txt file, use right click with mouse, select new, select text file.



2]
Rename it as Sensors_sub_US_sim.txt



3]
Open it and copy and paste the lines posted by Mrah...

here a complete line of text.

// Game version for these changes.
Version=SH4 v1.1

// Path to the file we are changing.
Path=data\Library\USSubParts\Sensors_sub_US.sim

//Modified by Mraah


// Use // for comments.
// Never use // within a parameter line below.
// Version and path information should always be at the top.
// Path is always relative to the main game folder (usually C:\Program Files\Ubisoft\Silent Hunter 4 Wolves of the Pacific).
// Numbers within brackets always start with 1.
// Numbers within brackets always increment by 1.
// Value displacements (in absolute lines) are always specified in hexadecimal, zero-based (zero counts as the first byte).


[1]
DropDownName= SD
search,SensorType,1,byte,>2,SensorType
search,PreciseRange,1,single,>2,PreciseRange
search,MaxRange,1,single,>2,MaxRange
search,MinHeight,1,single,>2,MinHeight
search,MaxHeight,1,single,>2,MaxHeight
search,MinSensorHeight,1,single,>2,MinSensorHeight
search,MaxSensorHeight,1,single,>2,MaxSensorHeight
search,Surface,1,single,>2,Surface
search,RPMDetLevel,1,single,>2,RPMDetLevel
search,SweepPeriod,1,single,>2,SweepPeriod
search,SweepArc,1,single,>2,SweepArc
search,ProbInsideArc,1,single,>2,ProbInsideArc
search,Revolving,1,byte,>2,Revolving
search,SkipSweep,1,byte,>2,SkipSweep
search,BearingMin,1,single,>2,BearingMin
search,BearingMax,1,single,>2,BearingMax
search,ElevationMin,1,single,>2,ElevationMin
search,ElevationMax,1,single,>2,ElevationMax

[2]
DropDownName=SJ
search,SensorType,2,byte,>2,SensorType
search,PreciseRange,2,single,>2,PreciseRange
search,MaxRange,2,single,>2,MaxRange
search,MinHeight,2,single,>2,MinHeight
search,MaxHeight,2,single,>2,MaxHeight
search,MinSensorHeight,2,single,>2,MinSensorHeight
search,MaxSensorHeight,2,single,>2,MaxSensorHeight
search,Surface,2,single,>2,Surface
search,RPMDetLevel,2,single,>2,RPMDetLevel
search,SweepPeriod,2,single,>2,SweepPeriod
search,SweepArc,2,single,>2,SweepArc
search,ProbInsideArc,2,single,>2,ProbInsideArc
search,Revolving,2,byte,>2,Revolving
search,SkipSweep,2,byte,>2,SkipSweep
search,BearingMin,2,single,>2,BearingMin
search,BearingMax,2,single,>2,BearingMax
search,ElevationMin,2,single,>2,ElevationMin
search,ElevationMax,2,single,>2,ElevationMax

[3]
DropDownName=SD (improved)
search,SensorType,3,byte,>2,SensorType
search,PreciseRange,3,single,>2,PreciseRange
search,MaxRange,3,single,>2,MaxRange
search,MinHeight,3,single,>2,MinHeight
search,MaxHeight,3,single,>2,MaxHeight
search,MinSensorHeight,3,single,>2,MinSensorHeight
search,MaxSensorHeight,3,single,>2,MaxSensorHeight
search,Surface,3,single,>2,Surface
search,RPMDetLevel,3,single,>2,RPMDetLevel
search,SweepPeriod,3,single,>2,SweepPeriod
search,SweepArc,3,single,>2,SweepArc
search,ProbInsideArc,3,single,>2,ProbInsideArc
search,Revolving,3,byte,>2,Revolving
search,SkipSweep,3,byte,>2,SkipSweep
search,BearingMin,3,single,>2,BearingMin
search,BearingMax,3,single,>2,BearingMax
search,ElevationMin,3,single,>2,ElevationMin
search,ElevationMax,3,single,>2,ElevationMax

[4]
DropDownName=SJ (improved)
search,SensorType,4,byte,>2,SensorType
search,PreciseRange,4,single,>2,PreciseRange
search,MaxRange,4,single,>2,MaxRange
search,MinHeight,4,single,>2,MinHeight
search,MaxHeight,4,single,>2,MaxHeight
search,MinSensorHeight,4,single,>2,MinSensorHeight
search,MaxSensorHeight,4,single,>2,MaxSensorHeight
search,Surface,4,single,>2,Surface
search,RPMDetLevel,4,single,>2,RPMDetLevel
search,SweepPeriod,4,single,>2,SweepPeriod
search,SweepArc,4,single,>2,SweepArc
search,ProbInsideArc,4,single,>2,ProbInsideArc
search,Revolving,4,byte,>2,Revolving
search,SkipSweep,4,byte,>2,SkipSweep
search,BearingMin,4,single,>2,BearingMin
search,BearingMax,4,single,>2,BearingMax
search,ElevationMin,4,single,>2,ElevationMin
search,ElevationMax,4,single,>2,ElevationMax

[5]
DropDownName=Visual 1
search,SensorType,5,byte,>2,SensorType
search,PreciseRange,5,single,>2,PreciseRange
search,MaxRange,5,single,>2,MaxRange
search,MinHeight,5,single,>2,MinHeight
search,MaxHeight,5,single,>2,MaxHeight
search,MinSensorHeight,5,single,>2,MinSensorHeight
search,MaxSensorHeight,5,single,>2,MaxSensorHeight
search,Surface,5,single,>2,Surface
search,RPMDetLevel,5,single,>2,RPMDetLevel
search,SweepPeriod,5,single,>2,SweepPeriod
search,SweepArc,5,single,>2,SweepArc
search,ProbInsideArc,5,single,>2,ProbInsideArc
search,Revolving,5,byte,>2,Revolving
search,SkipSweep,5,byte,>2,SkipSweep
search,BearingMin,5,single,>2,BearingMin
search,BearingMax,5,single,>2,BearingMax
search,ElevationMin,5,single,>2,ElevationMin
search,ElevationMax,5,single,>2,ElevationMax

[6]
DropDownName=Visual 2
search,SensorType,6,byte,>2,SensorType
search,PreciseRange,6,single,>2,PreciseRange
search,MaxRange,6,single,>2,MaxRange
search,MinHeight,6,single,>2,MinHeight
search,MaxHeight,6,single,>2,MaxHeight
search,MinSensorHeight,6,single,>2,MinSensorHeight
search,MaxSensorHeight,6,single,>2,MaxSensorHeight
search,Surface,6,single,>2,Surface
search,RPMDetLevel,6,single,>2,RPMDetLevel
search,SweepPeriod,6,single,>2,SweepPeriod
search,SweepArc,6,single,>2,SweepArc
search,ProbInsideArc,6,single,>2,ProbInsideArc
search,Revolving,6,byte,>2,Revolving
search,SkipSweep,6,byte,>2,SkipSweep
search,BearingMin,6,single,>2,BearingMin
search,BearingMax,6,single,>2,BearingMax
search,ElevationMin,6,single,>2,ElevationMin
search,ElevationMax,6,single,>2,ElevationMax

[7]
DropDownName=Visual 3
search,SensorType,7,byte,>2,SensorType
search,PreciseRange,7,single,>2,PreciseRange
search,MaxRange,7,single,>2,MaxRange
search,MinHeight,7,single,>2,MinHeight
search,MaxHeight,7,single,>2,MaxHeight
search,MinSensorHeight,7,single,>2,MinSensorHeight
search,MaxSensorHeight,7,single,>2,MaxSensorHeight
search,Surface,7,single,>2,Surface
search,RPMDetLevel,7,single,>2,RPMDetLevel
search,SweepPeriod,7,single,>2,SweepPeriod
search,SweepArc,7,single,>2,SweepArc
search,ProbInsideArc,7,single,>2,ProbInsideArc
search,Revolving,7,byte,>2,Revolving
search,SkipSweep,7,byte,>2,SkipSweep
search,BearingMin,7,single,>2,BearingMin
search,BearingMax,7,single,>2,BearingMax
search,ElevationMin,7,single,>2,ElevationMin
search,ElevationMax,7,single,>2,ElevationMax

[8]
DropDownName=SV ???
search,SensorType,8,byte,>2,SensorType
search,PreciseRange,8,single,>2,PreciseRange
search,MaxRange,8,single,>2,MaxRange
search,MinHeight,8,single,>2,MinHeight
search,MaxHeight,8,single,>2,MaxHeight
search,MinSensorHeight,8,single,>2,MinSensorHeight
search,MaxSensorHeight,8,single,>2,MaxSensorHeight
search,Surface,8,single,>2,Surface
search,RPMDetLevel,8,single,>2,RPMDetLevel
search,SweepPeriod,8,single,>2,SweepPeriod
search,SweepArc,8,single,>2,SweepArc
search,ProbInsideArc,8,single,>2,ProbInsideArc
search,Revolving,8,byte,>2,Revolving
search,SkipSweep,8,byte,>2,SkipSweep
search,BearingMin,8,single,>2,BearingMin
search,BearingMax,8,single,>2,BearingMax
search,ElevationMin,8,single,>2,ElevationMin
search,ElevationMax,8,single,>2,ElevationMax

[9]
DropDownName=SJ Unknown Sub 1 ???
search,SensorType,9,byte,>2,SensorType
search,PreciseRange,9,single,>2,PreciseRange
search,MaxRange,9,single,>2,MaxRange
search,MinHeight,9,single,>2,MinHeight
search,MaxHeight,9,single,>2,MaxHeight
search,MinSensorHeight,9,single,>2,MinSensorHeight
search,MaxSensorHeight,9,single,>2,MaxSensorHeight
search,Surface,9,single,>2,Surface
search,RPMDetLevel,9,single,>2,RPMDetLevel
search,SweepPeriod,9,single,>2,SweepPeriod
search,SweepArc,9,single,>2,SweepArc
search,ProbInsideArc,9,single,>2,ProbInsideArc
search,Revolving,9,byte,>2,Revolving
search,SkipSweep,9,byte,>2,SkipSweep
search,BearingMin,9,single,>2,BearingMin
search,BearingMax,9,single,>2,BearingMax
search,ElevationMin,9,single,>2,ElevationMin
search,ElevationMax,9,single,>2,ElevationMax

[10]
DropDownName=SJ Unknown Sub 2 ???
search,SensorType,10,byte,>2,SensorType
search,PreciseRange,10,single,>2,PreciseRange
search,MaxRange,10,single,>2,MaxRange
search,MinHeight,10,single,>2,MinHeight
search,MaxHeight,10,single,>2,MaxHeight
search,MinSensorHeight,10,single,>2,MinSensorHeigh t
search,MaxSensorHeight,10,single,>2,MaxSensorHeigh t
search,Surface,10,single,>2,Surface
search,RPMDetLevel,10,single,>2,RPMDetLevel
search,SweepPeriod,10,single,>2,SweepPeriod
search,SweepArc,10,single,>2,SweepArc
search,ProbInsideArc,10,single,>2,ProbInsideArc
search,Revolving,10,byte,>2,Revolving
search,SkipSweep,10,byte,>2,SkipSweep
search,BearingMin,10,single,>2,BearingMin
search,BearingMax,10,single,>2,BearingMax
search,ElevationMin,10,single,>2,ElevationMin
search,ElevationMax,10,single,>2,ElevationMax

[11]
DropDownName=SJ Unknown Sub 3 ???
search,SensorType,11,byte,>2,SensorType
search,PreciseRange,11,single,>2,PreciseRange
search,MaxRange,11,single,>2,MaxRange
search,MinHeight,11,single,>2,MinHeight
search,MaxHeight,11,single,>2,MaxHeight
search,MinSensorHeight,11,single,>2,MinSensorHeigh t
search,MaxSensorHeight,11,single,>2,MaxSensorHeigh t
search,Surface,11,single,>2,Surface
search,RPMDetLevel,11,single,>2,RPMDetLevel
search,SweepPeriod,11,single,>2,SweepPeriod
search,SweepArc,11,single,>2,SweepArc
search,ProbInsideArc,11,single,>2,ProbInsideArc
search,Revolving,11,byte,>2,Revolving
search,SkipSweep,11,byte,>2,SkipSweep
search,BearingMin,11,single,>2,BearingMin
search,BearingMax,11,single,>2,BearingMax
search,ElevationMin,11,single,>2,ElevationMin
search,ElevationMax,11,single,>2,ElevationMax

[12]
DropDownName=SJ Unknown Sub 4 ???
search,SensorType,12,byte,>2,SensorType
search,PreciseRange,12,single,>2,PreciseRange
search,MaxRange,12,single,>2,MaxRange
search,MinHeight,12,single,>2,MinHeight
search,MaxHeight,12,single,>2,MaxHeight
search,MinSensorHeight,12,single,>2,MinSensorHeigh t
search,MaxSensorHeight,12,single,>2,MaxSensorHeigh t
search,Surface,12,single,>2,Surface
search,RPMDetLevel,12,single,>2,RPMDetLevel
search,SweepPeriod,12,single,>2,SweepPeriod
search,SweepArc,12,single,>2,SweepArc
search,ProbInsideArc,12,single,>2,ProbInsideArc
search,Revolving,12,byte,>2,Revolving
search,SkipSweep,12,byte,>2,SkipSweep
search,BearingMin,12,single,>2,BearingMin
search,BearingMax,12,single,>2,BearingMax
search,ElevationMin,12,single,>2,ElevationMin
search,ElevationMax,12,single,>2,ElevationMax

[13]
DropDownName=Passive Sonar (0-150)
search,SensorType,13,byte,>2,SensorType
search,PreciseRange,13,single,>2,PreciseRange
search,MaxRange,13,single,>2,MaxRange
search,MinHeight,13,single,>2,MinHeight
search,MaxHeight,13,single,>2,MaxHeight
search,MinSensorHeight,13,single,>2,MinSensorHeigh t
search,MaxSensorHeight,13,single,>2,MaxSensorHeigh t
search,Surface,13,single,>2,Surface
search,RPMDetLevel,13,single,>2,RPMDetLevel
search,SweepPeriod,13,single,>2,SweepPeriod
search,SweepArc,13,single,>2,SweepArc
search,ProbInsideArc,13,single,>2,ProbInsideArc
search,Revolving,13,byte,>2,Revolving
search,SkipSweep,13,byte,>2,SkipSweep
search,BearingMin,13,single,>2,BearingMin
search,BearingMax,13,single,>2,BearingMax
search,ElevationMin,13,single,>2,ElevationMin
search,ElevationMax,13,single,>2,ElevationMax

[14]
DropDownName=Active Sonar (210-360)
search,SensorType,14,byte,>2,SensorType
search,PreciseRange,14,single,>2,PreciseRange
search,MaxRange,14,single,>2,MaxRange
search,MinHeight,14,single,>2,MinHeight
search,MaxHeight,14,single,>2,MaxHeight
search,MinSensorHeight,14,single,>2,MinSensorHeigh t
search,MaxSensorHeight,14,single,>2,MaxSensorHeigh t
search,Surface,14,single,>2,Surface
search,RPMDetLevel,14,single,>2,RPMDetLevel
search,SweepPeriod,14,single,>2,SweepPeriod
search,SweepArc,14,single,>2,SweepArc
search,ProbInsideArc,14,single,>2,ProbInsideArc
search,Revolving,14,byte,>2,Revolving
search,SkipSweep,14,byte,>2,SkipSweep
search,BearingMin,14,single,>2,BearingMin
search,BearingMax,14,single,>2,BearingMax
search,ElevationMin,14,single,>2,ElevationMin
search,ElevationMax,14,single,>2,ElevationMax

[15]
DropDownName=Passive Sonar (0-140)
search,SensorType,15,byte,>2,SensorType
search,PreciseRange,15,single,>2,PreciseRange
search,MaxRange,15,single,>2,MaxRange
search,MinHeight,15,single,>2,MinHeight
search,MaxHeight,15,single,>2,MaxHeight
search,MinSensorHeight,15,single,>2,MinSensorHeigh t
search,MaxSensorHeight,15,single,>2,MaxSensorHeigh t
search,Surface,15,single,>2,Surface
search,RPMDetLevel,15,single,>2,RPMDetLevel
search,SweepPeriod,15,single,>2,SweepPeriod
search,SweepArc,15,single,>2,SweepArc
search,ProbInsideArc,15,single,>2,ProbInsideArc
search,Revolving,15,byte,>2,Revolving
search,SkipSweep,15,byte,>2,SkipSweep
search,BearingMin,15,single,>2,BearingMin
search,BearingMax,15,single,>2,BearingMax
search,ElevationMin,15,single,>2,ElevationMin
search,ElevationMax,15,single,>2,ElevationMax

[16]
DropDownName=Radar Revolving (220-360) SJ Improved ??
search,SensorType,16,byte,>2,SensorType
search,PreciseRange,16,single,>2,PreciseRange
search,MaxRange,16,single,>2,MaxRange
search,MinHeight,16,single,>2,MinHeight
search,MaxHeight,16,single,>2,MaxHeight
search,MinSensorHeight,16,single,>2,MinSensorHeigh t
search,MaxSensorHeight,16,single,>2,MaxSensorHeigh t
search,Surface,16,single,>2,Surface
search,RPMDetLevel,16,single,>2,RPMDetLevel
search,SweepPeriod,16,single,>2,SweepPeriod
search,SweepArc,16,single,>2,SweepArc
search,ProbInsideArc,16,single,>2,ProbInsideArc
search,Revolving,16,byte,>2,Revolving
search,SkipSweep,16,byte,>2,SkipSweep
search,BearingMin,16,single,>2,BearingMin
search,BearingMax,16,single,>2,BearingMax
search,ElevationMin,16,single,>2,ElevationMin
search,ElevationMax,16,single,>2,ElevationMax

[17]
DropDownName=Radar Revolving (0-150) SJ Improved ??
search,SensorType,17,byte,>2,SensorType
search,PreciseRange,17,single,>2,PreciseRange
search,MaxRange,17,single,>2,MaxRange
search,MinHeight,17,single,>2,MinHeight
search,MaxHeight,17,single,>2,MaxHeight
search,MinSensorHeight,17,single,>2,MinSensorHeigh t
search,MaxSensorHeight,17,single,>2,MaxSensorHeigh t
search,Surface,17,single,>2,Surface
search,RPMDetLevel,17,single,>2,RPMDetLevel
search,SweepPeriod,17,single,>2,SweepPeriod
search,SweepArc,17,single,>2,SweepArc
search,ProbInsideArc,17,single,>2,ProbInsideArc
search,Revolving,17,byte,>2,Revolving
search,SkipSweep,17,byte,>2,SkipSweep
search,BearingMin,17,single,>2,BearingMin
search,BearingMax,17,single,>2,BearingMax
search,ElevationMin,17,single,>2,ElevationMin
search,ElevationMax,17,single,>2,ElevationMax

[18]
DropDownName=Radar Revolving (210-360) SJ Improved ??
search,SensorType,18,byte,>2,SensorType
search,PreciseRange,18,single,>2,PreciseRange
search,MaxRange,18,single,>2,MaxRange
search,MinHeight,18,single,>2,MinHeight
search,MaxHeight,18,single,>2,MaxHeight
search,MinSensorHeight,18,single,>2,MinSensorHeigh t
search,MaxSensorHeight,18,single,>2,MaxSensorHeigh t
search,Surface,18,single,>2,Surface
search,RPMDetLevel,18,single,>2,RPMDetLevel
search,SweepPeriod,18,single,>2,SweepPeriod
search,SweepArc,18,single,>2,SweepArc
search,ProbInsideArc,18,single,>2,ProbInsideArc
search,Revolving,18,byte,>2,Revolving
search,SkipSweep,18,byte,>2,SkipSweep
search,BearingMin,18,single,>2,BearingMin
search,BearingMax,18,single,>2,BearingMax
search,ElevationMin,18,single,>2,ElevationMin
search,ElevationMax,18,single,>2,ElevationMax

[19]
DropDownName=Radar Revolving 8 SJ Improved ??
search,SensorType,19,byte,>2,SensorType
search,PreciseRange,19,single,>2,PreciseRange
search,MaxRange,19,single,>2,MaxRange
search,MinHeight,19,single,>2,MinHeight
search,MaxHeight,19,single,>2,MaxHeight
search,MinSensorHeight,19,single,>2,MinSensorHeigh t
search,MaxSensorHeight,19,single,>2,MaxSensorHeigh t
search,Surface,19,single,>2,Surface
search,RPMDetLevel,19,single,>2,RPMDetLevel
search,SweepPeriod,19,single,>2,SweepPeriod
search,SweepArc,19,single,>2,SweepArc
search,ProbInsideArc,19,single,>2,ProbInsideArc
search,Revolving,19,byte,>2,Revolving
search,SkipSweep,19,byte,>2,SkipSweep
search,BearingMin,19,single,>2,BearingMin
search,BearingMax,19,single,>2,BearingMax
search,ElevationMin,19,single,>2,ElevationMin
search,ElevationMax,19,single,>2,ElevationMax

[20]
DropDownName=Radar Revolving 9 SJ Improved ??
search,SensorType,20,byte,>2,SensorType
search,PreciseRange,20,single,>2,PreciseRange
search,MaxRange,20,single,>2,MaxRange
search,MinHeight,20,single,>2,MinHeight
search,MaxHeight,20,single,>2,MaxHeight
search,MinSensorHeight,20,single,>2,MinSensorHeigh t
search,MaxSensorHeight,20,single,>2,MaxSensorHeigh t
search,Surface,20,single,>2,Surface
search,RPMDetLevel,20,single,>2,RPMDetLevel
search,SweepPeriod,20,single,>2,SweepPeriod
search,SweepArc,20,single,>2,SweepArc
search,ProbInsideArc,20,single,>2,ProbInsideArc
search,Revolving,20,byte,>2,Revolving
search,SkipSweep,20,byte,>2,SkipSweep
search,BearingMin,20,single,>2,BearingMin
search,BearingMax,20,single,>2,BearingMax
search,ElevationMin,20,single,>2,ElevationMin
search,ElevationMax,20,single,>2,ElevationMax




4]
Open the MiniTweaker program.



5]
Be sure you made a back-up of your original file.



6]
Be sure to indicate to miniTweaker the correct folder for SH IV, it is set at SH III by default.



7]
Open the template you create above.



8]
Just edit all SD and SJ radars so their "ElevationMax = 90" become

ElevationMax = 181



9]
Close MiniTweaker.



10
Be sure to remove the "Copy of Sensors_sub_US.sim" file created by MiniTweaker from the working folder into your SH IV installation.



Please Mraah .... correct me if i made a mistake in some place !!! :up:

Many Thanks Mrahh for job and effort in this research ! :up::up::up:

[Meridian]

Good explanation Red, the only thing I saw was that Mraah said this:

So, there you have it. The fix is to change ALL SD and SJ entries to read :ElevationMax=181


Not just the SD sections. If i've got it wrong let me know so I can go back and reset the SJ's.

Thanks

Great stuff here though now being able to pick up Radar contacts heading South.

On the subject of Radar though, does the "One Sweep" button actually do anything? I can only ever seem to get continuous sweep to work.

[Redwine]

Good explanation Red, the only thing I saw was that Mraah said this:

So, there you have it. The fix is to change ALL SD and SJ entries to read :ElevationMax=181


Not just the SD sections. If i've got it wrong let me know so I can go back and reset the SJ's.

Thanks

Great stuff here though now being able to pick up Radar contacts heading South.

On the subject of Radar though, does the "One Sweep" button actually do anything? I can only ever seem to get continuous sweep to work.

You are right.... i made that, but when i wrote it, i made a mistake... many thanks.:up:

Fixed... :up:

[Flybywire]

I need to get Mini Tweaker...where do I get this program?

[CaptainCox]

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=109854

[Warden]

This is incredible work, thank you so much.

[U-Bones]

When the 1.2 patch is release it will be educational to see what they changed to keep the SJ from picking up ships.

[jerryt]

Hi All. Sorry for what may be a dumb question, :88) but not being a mod/tweaker creation type guy, does anybody have the Sensors_sub_US.sim file already modded? Or is this something that has to be done on an individual file basis?

Getting the radar fixed will be a Godsend. :up:

[Ducimus]

When the 1.2 patch is release it will be educational to see what they changed to keep the SJ from picking up ships.

No kidding. Im sure the answer is one of two things.

a.) so obvious it was right under my nose

or

b.) Some new variable. Other day i was thinking they could fix it by adding a Speed factor to it, so it only picks up objects moving past say, 30 kts.

[CruiseTorpedo]

Hi All. Sorry for what may be a dumb question, :88) but not being a mod/tweaker creation type guy, does anybody have the Sensors_sub_US.sim file already modded? Or is this something that has to be done on an individual file basis?

Getting the radar fixed will be a Godsend. :up:

I'm with this guy, I dont want to get into some tweaker utility, I just want the fixed radar file. Can anyone put that up on a host for the 99% of us that dont want to manually do it?

[U-Bones]

When the 1.2 patch is release it will be educational to see what they changed to keep the SJ from picking up ships.
No kidding. Im sure the answer is one of two things.

a.) so obvious it was right under my nose

or

b.) Some new variable. Other day i was thinking they could fix it by adding a Speed factor to it, so it only picks up objects moving past say, 30 kts.

or

c) their fix misses most aircraft too ;)

(no offense intended at all).

[Mraah]

Could it be that they wanted to restrict the radar based on the sub's prop noise and instead what they did was restrict it based on the heading?

Berry,

Good question :up: . But prop noise wouldn't restrict radar, mast obstruction would.

Well the question is, does the developer in charge of implementing radar know that? If not, then he could easily have tried to put in a radar that had a blind spot at 180 degrees bearing (i.e. behind the boat) and accidentally put in a blind spot at 180 degrees on the compass (i.e. South). It's not a question of what restricts radar - it's a question of what the developer might have been thinking when he made the feature.


Berry,

I apologize. I totally missed your question and jumped into a lecture :cry: .

Yeah, what was the developer thinking and why would there be a need for such a wide blind spot.

Rob

[Mraah]

To clarify things a bit, all bearings in the sensors are relative to the submarine, 0º is front and 180º is back, the restrictions are, because of that also relative to the sub position.

BTW. here's the full mini tweaker file for the sensors:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=109069&highlight=%5Brel%5D

I really recomend using the search function in the forums, I know how hard is to make a tweak file by hand...

Ref

Ref,

Thanks for the link for the tweakfile!! Very nice :D .

I like your's better since it explains why there was a stray BearingMin/Max. I never would have thought to search for 2 of them for sensor's # 13,14 and 15 (the sonar).

I noticed you didn't include the ElevationMin/Max and since I don't know it's exact location I just pasted in the search again for each and works the same.

Thank you.

Rob

[Mraah]

Where is this file located?

What folder?
The file to be modified is :

8]
Just edit all SD and SJ radars so their "ElevationMax = 90" become

ElevationMax = 181


Please Mraah .... correct me if i made a mistake in some place !!! :up:

Many Thanks Mrahh for job and effort in this research ! :up::up::up:



Redwine,

Quite Welcome!! I'm glad to be of some use.

Thank you for explaining how to change it for everyone.

Only the SD entries had ElevationMax = 90. The other SJ's had 30, and perhaps 60 if I remember. No big deal, since the point was changing it to 181. Thank you again.

I'm wondering if these values would work, since 0 and 360 seem to be the "normal" values for the rest of the sensors we see in the file. Probably would work but at least we know 181 does!!

ElevationMin = 0
ElevationMax = 360

Rob

[Redwine]

Redwine,

Quite Welcome!! I'm glad to be of some use.

Thank you for explaining how to change it for everyone.

Only the SD entries had ElevationMax = 90. The other SJ's had 30, and perhaps 60 if I remember. No big deal, since the point was changing it to 181. Thank you again.

I'm wondering if these values would work, since 0 and 360 seem to be the "normal" values for the rest of the sensors we see in the file. Probably would work but at least we know 181 does!!

ElevationMin = 0
ElevationMax = 360

Rob
Thank you ! for the job...:up:

It is a little bit confuse, because in the sonar sensors, zero is up, 90 is ahead, 180 is down , 270 is back and 360 is as zero up.

I think so the 181 and the 357, which is a little bit under the horizontal.... is due to the sensor position height, may be the game simulates the sensor position height, then if a rada is over the ship mast, it can be at 30 meters or in a battleship at 60 meters height.

May be 15 meters into a DD, then if we put 180, all under 15 meters height will be into a radar shadow zone, under the detection beam.

This gives us a little protection when so near the ship, even with periscope up, if we are so near the ship, the radar will not detect us, i think so it is real.

Just imagine a beam proyection down of 1 degree, from 15 meters height, the beam will reach the water some meters far... inside this cone, the radar is null.

[-Pv-]

I'm with the guys who have posted requesting a link to a modified file so we don't all have to experiment with the tweaker program.
-Pv-

[Redwine]

I'm with the guys who have posted requesting a link to a modified file so we don't all have to experiment with the tweaker program.
-Pv-

Sorry ! :up:

Download one modified file here....

http://files.filefront.com//;7232165;/

[jerryt]

Thanks Redwine. Going to try it out now. :up:

[-Pv-]

I had returned to port ending my 1st patrol and put this file in place. I then left port Feb '42 starting my 2nd patrol in a Porpoise. Nothing has changed for me. I still get the radar operator announcing ship contacts while facing N and the grey ship contacts fading out when I turn S. As has happened when I 1st loaded the 1.1 patch, none of the radar displays work. I cannot turn them on or off with switches or control panel. Port upgrade list shows I have SJ installed and cannot install SD. Damage control panel indicates I have SD installed.
-Pv-

[Mraah]

I had returned to port ending my 1st patrol and put this file in place. I then left port Feb '42 starting my 2nd patrol in a Porpoise. Nothing has changed for me. I still get the radar operator announcing ship contacts while facing N and the grey ship contacts fading out when I turn S. As has happened when I 1st loaded the 1.1 patch, none of the radar displays work. I cannot turn them on or off with switches or control panel. Port upgrade list shows I have SJ installed and cannot install SD. Damage control panel indicates I have SD installed.
-Pv-

You running any mods?
How did you install it?
Did you exit out of SH4 then install file, then start SH4 again?

If you manually installed it, then what folder did you install the Sensors_sub_US.sim file?
Should be in :

data\Library\USSubParts

[letterboy1]

Thanks everyone for the work on this file. I installed it creating a directory in the JSGME MODS folder that leads to data\Library\USSubParts. I'll report back if anything goes wrong.

[-Pv-]

" You running any mods?
How did you install it?
Did you exit out of SH4 then install file, then start SH4 again?

If you manually installed it, then what folder did you install the Sensors_sub_US.sim file?
Should be in :

data\Library\USSubParts"

I probably put it in the wrong place. I searched the filename and put it where I got a hit. I'll give it another shot.

Yes, I copied the file while SH4 was closed.

Edit...
Tested and working great. Thanks for catching my error.
-Pv-

[Payoff]

Pinch me I'm dreaming.:o
Great work.
Thanks

[letterboy1]

Cool! I just got a refit at Midway and decided to start off directly south for a while to test the mod. I continuously got new radar contacts while doing so. Great work! Thanks.

[Hans-Ulrich Rudel]

Gosh Redwine, you are smart! I have tried but still no luck with the radar!!

My buttons in the orders bar for sonar and radar do not function.

There is no mention of radar and sonar not being able to be used by the player untill late in the game in the manual, note that the crew makes the radar work. The player just can not use it.

Why did Ubisoft release the game with such obvious glitch's??:down:

[letterboy1]

Redwine,
could you please make a new modified file for 1.2? This is one of those that got modified by the patch. Thank you so much.

[Ducimus]

Try Using the tweak file settings in the first page of this thread (search as apposed to absolute), and use redwine's section descriptions from his old tweakfile. Pretty sure that will work. Id have done it already but ran out of time before work.

[letterboy1]

Okay Ducimus, I'm taking the plunge. The only question I have for you or Redwine is what exactly is meant by "all SJ or SD entries?" Some of the entries say "SJ Improved?" with the question mark at the end. Just to be safe, which entries should I leave alone? For now I have changed every entry that contains SJ or SD anywhere in the line. I will hold off from using this file until I'm sure.

[letterboy1]

Never mind, in a moment of sobri . . . er, I mean brilliance, I opened the tweak file while having the version 1.1 Sensors_sub_US.sim in the USSubParts folder. I got to see that indeed every line with any mention of SJ or SD was altered. Cool.

I then put the original version 1.2 file back and put my altered one in my MODS folder so I can use JSGME to enable it.

Give me a minute and I will post the altered/modded version in a JSGME compatible format. I'll be sure to credit the original author.

[Mraah]

I made a new tweakfile for Sensors_sub_US.
Note my pasting error in the post.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=502167&postcount=142

[letterboy1]

Okay, here is the same fix created with Mini Tweaker by using the tweak file from Mraah and altering the Sensors_sub_US.sim after being patched to 1.2. Thanks to Mraah who did the detective work and Redwine for explaining Minitweaker. All I did was post for your convenience.

Just unRAR into your MODS folder if your using JSGME. If not, then into a temp folder and go through the folder structure until you find the file: "Sensors_sub_US.sim" which you will then copy to:
:\Program Files\Ubisoft\Silent Hunter Wolves of the Pacific\Data\Library\USSubParts

Don't forget to back up the original file first.


Edit: Wait while I correct this!

[letterboy1]

Oh crap! What now? What error?

[Mraah]

Oh crap! What now? What error?

The letter "t" error in my original post under sensors # 10-20 where it added a space between the "h" and "t" at the end of this example line :

search,MinSensorHeight,10,single,>2,MinSensorHeigh t (note space between h and t)
search,MaxSensorHeight,10,single,>2,MaxSensorHeigh t (note space between h and t)

Might not be a big deal, but I wanted to make sure everyone knew about it.

[letterboy1]

Well, I'm not sure if I should post the edited file now. I'll just postpone indefinitely because I don't want to mess up other people's installation. I went ahead and changed all of the ElevationMax values to 181 (using your new tweak file). I did it to all the lines that had either SJ or SD in them. I guess I'll try it out tonight. As long as my radar contacts don't disappear when I'm heading south I should be okay, right?

[letterboy1]

By the way, yes I got rid of the spaces that you refered to in your error warning. Thanks.

[Redwine]

Redwine,
could you please make a new modified file for 1.2? This is one of those that got modified by the patch. Thank you so much.
Hi... :up:

Sorry, i didnt seen your request, i need to check fior a new Tweaker file !

I was so busy reintalling all :damn: mods !

Use private messaje if i dont see a request... :up:

[Redwine]

Mmmh..

NSS_LateSJ_Antenna as

ElevationMax=360

by default...

is it correct ?

:hmm:

[letterboy1]

For now I changed all the SJ and SD entries (including those Antena ones) to ElevationMax=181. I'll try it out tonight.

[Redwine]

Already done file here, not tested, credits inside...

Sorry LetterBoy... too later !! Excuse me !

NOT TESTED

http://files.filefront.com/Sensor_Sub_US_Sim_Tweakedezip/;7269391;/fileinfo.html

[Mraah]

Already done file here, not tested, credits inside...

Sorry LetterBoy... too later !! Excuse me !

NOT TESTED

http://files.filefront.com/Sensor_Sub_US_Sim_Tweakedezip/;7269391;/fileinfo.html


Check new Tweakfile please. Old was bad, new is good :D

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=502167&postcount=142

[letterboy1]

Already done file here, not tested, credits inside...

Sorry LetterBoy... too later !! Excuse me !

NOT TESTED

http://files.filefront.com/Sensor_Sub_US_Sim_Tweakedezip/;7269391;/fileinfo.html
Excellent. I'm not sure of what I was doing anyway. :D

[letterboy1]

Redwine, did you mean to leave "NSS_EarlySJ 5" at ElevationMax=30? I noticed you changed everything to 181 except that one.

[Redwine]

Redwine, did you mean to leave "NSS_EarlySJ 5" at ElevationMax=30? I noticed you changed everything to 181 except that one.

May be i forget that !!! change it too :up:

[Redwine]

Check new Tweakfile please. Old was bad, new is good :D

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=502167&postcount=142

Done ! many thanks ! :up:

[letterboy1]

Thanks Redwine, I just wanted to be sure.

[Jace11]

So is there a finished fixed version based on 1.2 yet? Or are these just tweak files?

Bit confused..

[t0maz]

So am I :roll:

[Takao]

Found the SJ & SD radar manuals & others here:
http://hnsa.org/doc/radar/index.htm (http://hnsa.org/doc/radar/part4.htm#pgSD-3)

Specidics are here for the SD & SJ, as well as others:
http://hnsa.org/doc/radar/part4.htm

[shad43]

So is there a finished fixed version based on 1.2 yet? Or are these just tweak files?

Bit confused..

Me too :o

[Redwine]

So is there a finished fixed version based on 1.2 yet? Or are these just tweak files?

Bit confused..

Sorry, here you have one already done... i was busy adapting all the mods to V1.2, plus i have fever and feel so bad. Not much time on the computer.

http://z33.zupload.com/download.php?file=getfile&filepath=27061 (http://z33.zupload.com/download.php?file=getfile&filepath=27061)

[akdavis]

Found the SJ & SD radar manuals & others here:
http://hnsa.org/doc/radar/index.htm (http://hnsa.org/doc/radar/part4.htm#pgSD-3)

Specidics are here for the SD & SJ, as well as others:
http://hnsa.org/doc/radar/part4.htm

Wow, very informative. SD radar is handled so poorly in game as to be laughable. I'm not sure we'll ever have proper interface or range-only functionality, but I hope we can at least achieve the right performance stats:


Maximum reliable range.
Target Range in Mile
Land 3,000 feet or higher 35
Land 1,000 feet 20
Large planes above 1,000 feet 12-20
Small planes above 1,000 feet 8-15
Low planes Not detected


Especially important to note is that planes below a 1,000 feet are not detected. What height do planes fly at by default in the game?

Not sure if this is within the realm of modding, but SD radar (at least early version) is not in the right location on the sub and should be on an extendable antenna, as described in the above resources and seen in this 1942 pic of the Porpoise:

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/n30000/n35997.jpg

[letterboy1]

Rest up, Redwine. Get well soon.

[Jace11]

Well the story isnt over yet cause after 1.2 the SD radar doesnt work at all. You get no warning of air contacts at all..

Having tested this file, because it is based on the 1.2 version, it doesn't work either - could not detect planes in the simple mission I made.

BUT...

The 1.1 version of this file restores function to the SD and it picks up airborne contacts again..

Therefore they did something to SD in 1.2 version of this file that deactivates it (probably by accident). Is it possible to correct that?

At the moment I am using 1.1 version of this mod and it seems fine, but I havent tested all the sensors... kinda difficult in game.

The problem is I dont know what other differences there are between the two versions... I have the tweak file, and will take a look.

[letterboy1]

Dang Jace, the plot thickens. I'm just running on the regular 1.2 patched files for now and will continue to monitor this thread.

[Redwine]

Well the story isnt over yet cause after 1.2 the SD radar doesnt work at all. You get no warning of air contacts at all..

Having tested this file, because it is based on the 1.2 version, it doesn't work either - could not detect planes in the simple mission I made.

BUT...

The 1.1 version of this file restores function to the SD and it picks up airborne contacts again..

Therefore they did something to SD in 1.2 version of this file that deactivates it (probably by accident). Is it possible to correct that?

At the moment I am using 1.1 version of this mod and it seems fine, but I havent tested all the sensors... kinda difficult in game.

The problem is I dont know what other differences there are between the two versions... I have the tweak file, and will take a look.
Same happen here, version made over v1.2 stock file doesnt works :damn:

I i changed it as you for the v1.1 version file.

Really this game have lot of great things, but radar and sonar are not...

SH I radar was just wondeful, with SH II radar i was capable to sink ship with my deck gun in middle of the fog, beyond the visual range using my radar.

But SH III and IV are really anoying...

[Jace11]

Ok, well I did a quick test..

I took the 1.2 fixed version from this thread and transposed all the setting values for the SD Early and Late from 1.1 into it using Minitweaker...

And, good news, it works again... So it is one of the settings they have changed not a node name or something tricky..

My guess would be the surface (which they increased) meaning the object has to be larger I think for it to be detected at all... They may have made it too large.. so small planes are not seen/??

Could be one of the other settings though not sure yet...

Its not surface..just tested...

By the way I need to know if the SD Early and Late are the only radars involved in this... Am I right in thinking that none of the others are for detecting planes...?

Get back to you when I find out.. more testing required..

[Mraah]

Same happen here, version made over v1.2 stock file doesnt works :damn:

I i changed it as you for the v1.1 version file.

Really this game have lot of great things, but radar and sonar are not...

SH I radar was just wondeful, with SH II radar i was capable to sink ship with my deck gun in middle of the fog, beyond the visual range using my radar.

But SH III and IV are really anoying...

Redwine,

Using my tweakfile from earlier post, if you want to return the radar parameters back to Ducimus' Flavored mod see below. I tested them and they work fine. I haven't played with SJ radar yet for 1.2 .

From Ducimus' Old File :

Early_SD change to ;
PreciseRange = 13000
MaxRange = 18000
MinHeight = 8.3
MaxHeight = 2500
Surface = 75
ElevationMax = 181

Late_SD change to ;
PreciseRange = 15000
MaxRange = 19000
MinHeight = 8.3
MaxHeight = 2500
Surface = 20
ProbInsideArc = 0
ElevationMax = 181

[Jace11]

I now think its the min / max height values.

[Jace11]

http://mpgtext.net/subshare/776Sensors_sub_US.sim


This link is a hotfix for the radar..

It is 1.2 sensors + the 90 / 270 fix + the SD radar fix

SD range extended to 1.2 values as per dev intentions

Function restored by lowering detection heights

[Mraah]

Ok, well I did a quick test..

I took the 1.2 fixed version from this thread and transposed all the setting values for the SD Early and Late from 1.1 into it using Minitweaker...

And, good news, it works again... So it is one of the settings they have changed not a node name or something tricky..

My guess would be the surface (which they increased) meaning the object has to be larger I think for it to be detected at all... They may have made it too large.. so small planes are not seen/??

Could be one of the other settings though not sure yet...

By the way I need to know if the SD Early and Late are the only radars involved in this... Am I right in thinking that none of the others are for detecting planes...?

Get back to you when I find out.. more testing required..


Jace11,

Cool that you're getting into the head banging :damn: aspect of understanding the UBI radar. Back when I was inspired by Ducimus' work I made some notes on my testing.

The SJ in this game will not detect aircraft. They use a MaxHeight of 80 (1.2) and 200 (1.1) . So far, the MaxHeight has to be at least 1000 to detect aircraft. I'm still testing, I'm thinking 300 before it detects an aircraft. In realworld, I read the SJ should pick up a/c but to screw with it also screws with the ships. So far, Ducimus' work on the SD is about the only thing that works to minimize ship detection.

Some notes below :

The Playing Field = 40,000m : This is my definition of the area that SH4 (SH3) uses to load the ships/aircraft. Basically, when you see the clock stop or slow down while you're cruising around or when it drops to a TC of 8x it means that something is within 40,000 meters. I called the clock slowdown "Instinct" or in Star Wars it would be "A disturbance in the Force" ... lol :lol: .

MaxRange : Establishes a base maximum compared to the Surface value.
Example using Surface=100 ;
1. MaxRange = 111,120 detected a Zero @ 31,900 m
2. MaxRange = 55,560 detected a Zero @ 21,100 m
3. MaxRange = 40,000 detected a Zero @ 14,600 m
In other word's, using a Surface=100 the Zero was detected at an average MaxRange of 65%.
Example using Surface=200 ;
1. MaxRange = 55,560 detected a Zero @ 14,600 m

I'm still testing and jotting down stuff. I have to goto work (real life always get's in the way!) so I'll continue later.

[Redwine]

Redwine,

Using my tweakfile from earlier post, if you want to return the radar parameters back to Ducimus' Flavored mod see below. I tested them and they work fine. I haven't played with SJ radar yet for 1.2 .

Many thanks ! I have stored the previous version ... :up:

[kakemann]

Just want to thank you guys for great tweaking! I'm following this thread closely. The Radar bug is quite annoying.

But is there a fully functional file to get the radar to work also heading south?
For the 1.2 patch?

If not what weaknesses is it in the current file?
Is the problem the elevation settings and the SD radar?

[Ducimus]

Can someone list, EVERY single variable for the SD radar and its default values for 1.1 and 1.2? Just want to dwell on it for a little while. Compare and contrast time. A total snapshot of each. I'd do it, but im @work currently.

[TopCat]

Hi

I did some extensive test with the latest file posted by Jace. Unfortunately it does not work

The SJ-Radar works fine.

But the Air radar has the 90 to 270 bug with aircrafts (not with ships!) and it detects all ships.

This Radar is really weird.

[kakemann]

Can someone list, EVERY single variable for the SD radar and its default values for 1.1 and 1.2? Just want to dwell on it for a little while. Compare and contrast time. A total snapshot of each. I'd do it, but im @work currently.
You're the man :|\\

[Mraah]

Can someone list, EVERY single variable for the SD radar and its default values for 1.1 and 1.2? Just want to dwell on it for a little while. Compare and contrast time. A total snapshot of each. I'd do it, but im @work currently.

Here's a dupe for those here :

Early_SD v1.1
SensorType = 1
PreciseRange = 12000
MaxRange = 55560
MinHeight = 6
MaxHeight = 2500
MinSensorHeight = 0.2
MaxSensorHeight = 20000
Surface = 100
RPMDetLevel = 0
SweepPeriod = 1
SweepArc = 0
ProbInsideArc = 0.95
Revolving = 0
SkipSweep = 1
BearingMin = 0
BearingMax = 360
ElevationMin = 359
ElevationMax = 90

Early_SD v1.2
SensorType = 1
PreciseRange = 10000
MaxRange = 55560
MinHeight = 100
MaxHeight = 5000
MinSensorHeight = 0.2
MaxSensorHeight = 20000
Surface = 100
RPMDetLevel = 0
SweepPeriod = 1
SweepArc = 0
ProbInsideArc = 0.85
Revolving = 0
SkipSweep = 1
BearingMin = 0
BearingMax = 360
ElevationMin = 359
ElevationMax = 90

Late_SD v1.1
SensorType = 1
PreciseRange = 23000
MaxRange = 111120
MinHeight = 6
MaxHeight = 2500
MinSensorHeight = 0.2
MaxSensorHeight = 20000
Surface = 100
RPMDetLevel = 0
SweepPeriod = 1
SweepArc = 0
ProbInsideArc = 0.95
Revolving = 0
SkipSweep = 1
BearingMin = 0
BearingMax = 360
ElevationMin = 359
ElevationMax = 90

Late_SD v1.2
SensorType = 1
PreciseRange = 23000
MaxRange = 111120
MinHeight = 80
MaxHeight = 5000
MinSensorHeight = 0.2
MaxSensorHeight = 20000
Surface = 100
RPMDetLevel = 0
SweepPeriod = 1
SweepArc = 0
ProbInsideArc = 0.9
Revolving = 0
SkipSweep = 1
BearingMin = 0
BearingMax = 360
ElevationMin = 359
ElevationMax = 90

Note : To compare with SJ v1.2 (max height changed from 200 to 80)

Early_SJ v1.2
SensorType = 1
PreciseRange = 15000
MaxRange = 54864
MinHeight = 0
MaxHeight = 80
MinSensorHeight = 0
MaxSensorHeight = 20000
Surface = 100
RPMDetLevel = 0
SweepPeriod = 20
SweepArc = 9
ProbInsideArc = 0.95
Revolving = 1
SkipSweep = 1
BearingMin = 0
BearingMax = 360
ElevationMin = 357.5
ElevationMax = 30

[Ducimus]

At this point my thoguht is to back up, rewind, and take things step by step. line by line. Theres some other variables at play here, and id venture a guess that nobody really understand what they are or do. If you do, please say so.

http://www.ducimus.net/sh4/early_sd.jpg

Most notable changes is they made the min/max height alot higher. We also know if you raise the minHeight past 8.3 or so, air contacts cease to be. I have to wonder whats the min/max sensor height do?

[Jungman]

At this point my thoguht is to back up, rewind, and take things step by step. line by line. Theres some other variables at play here, and id venture a guess that nobody really understand what they are or do. If you do, please say so.

http://www.ducimus.net/sh4/early_sd.jpg

Most notable changes is they made the min/max height alot higher. We also know if you raise the minHeight past 8.3 or so, air contacts cease to be. I have to wonder whats the min/max sensor height do?

The MinSensorHeight and MaxSensorHeights should control the same as for the passive sonar. I changed those to have an affect. They ranges from about -6 to -300 in value. I assume that is -6 meters to -300 meters deep.

But according to that logic, the setting are 0.2 and 20000, the same for both -thus they BOTH should be screwed up! :88) Detecting everything with the bounds of the other parameter MinHeight and MaxHeight. Try changing the Min/Max SensorHeight to something normal and see if that works.

Update:

notice SJ works and its SweepArc is not zero.
SweepArc = 9
ProbInsideArc = 0.95

But for SD SweepArc= 0. Hard to pick something up inside a zero angle sweep arc. Set for 9 like the SJ and see what happens.!:know: set Revolving = 1 also. Duplicate and see if it works. Just a guess if all else fails.

Basically meaning, Min of 359 is pointing 1 degree below the horizon, Max of 90 is straight up. The SJ data has Min/Max of 357.5/30 . Looks fine on papar but it appears it's not using those values for that reason.

Yes, that is because the SD Radar is NOT rotating around the Z-axis. See above, that might would explain it. Z axis is the direction pointing straight up. It needs to turn in a full circle. Sounds good as any theory...:/?

[Jace11]

My SD is picking up all air contacts from all directions..

I know its my SD cause I am using a porpoise without an SJ.

It IS still detecting ships however. Can't prevent that yet.

[Jace11]

My Tests were done as follows...

put this in your library/ussubparts folder:

http://www.speedyshare.com/292155739.html

and extract this test mission and put it in your single missions folder

http://mpgtext.net/subshare/18Edit.zip


then run the mission and use TC for a while..

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/3020/untitled2pi4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

You start with 4 aircraft approaching from N, S, E, and W plus 1 small and 1 large surface contact from SE and NW respectively.

Pick a 45 porpoise (not SJ - without the campaign upgrade) and see if you spot them all.. I can..

BTW I have not entered any of my own values into the subsensors file, this isn't a tweak, I have merely combined those from 1.1 and 1.2 to get it to work.

[kakemann]

So what you are saying is that you actually got it to work?

[Jungman]

Jace11, try setting MaxSensorHeight and MinSensorHeight = to MinHeight and MaxHeight.

It is the *SensorHeight that controls the enviroment it will be defined in. Limit that should work. They are set for 0.2 and 20000 ; means they should be picking up everything...ships and airplanes. It seems it does.

[Jace11]

Good idea Jungman. At work now, so can't. Maybe someone else can try it.

The MinHeight going from 8.3 to 100 was responsible for breaking SD, therefore, I think the MinHeight refers to the tallness (ie vertical size) of the object NOT the height it operates at. So as no aircraft is over 100m tall, then they are not seen. Maybe the dev team intended to increase the sensor height, but increased the wrong one…

That sound plausible I think, increasing min sensor height on the SD to say 100 should be the fix? And lowering the max sensor height of the SJ should stop that detecting airborne targets??

Wish I could test it, but I have work….

[Redwine]

Update:

notice SJ works and its SweepArc is not zero.
SweepArc = 9
ProbInsideArc = 0.95

But for SD SweepArc= 0. Hard to pick something up inside a zero angle sweep arc. Set for 9 like the SJ and see what happens.!:know: set Revolving = 1 also. Duplicate and see if it works. Just a guess if all else fails.

Sweeparc zero !

Mmmh... that may be an error. I will look that, many thanks Jungman. :up:

[TopCat]

That's indeed very strange. I installed jace's sensor-file and testmission. And everything worked exactly as he described.
Then with the same sensor-file I loaded my own testmission, and guess what. The 90 to 270 error with aircrafts (see my post from yesterday) came up again. That's very weird.
I will upload my testmission when I'll be home from work.

[akdavis]

Good idea Jungman. At work now, so can't. Maybe someone else can try it.

The MinHeight going from 8.3 to 100 was responsible for breaking SD, therefore, I think the MinHeight refers to the tallness (ie vertical size) of the object NOT the height it operates at. So as no aircraft is over 100m tall, then they are not seen. Maybe the dev team intended to increase the sensor height, but increased the wrong one…

That sound plausible I think, increasing min sensor height on the SD to say 100 should be the fix? And lowering the max sensor height of the SJ should stop that detecting airborne targets??

Wish I could test it, but I have work….

Hmm...I thought "SensorHeight" was for the sensor's "altitude" range, i.e. the altitude/depth the sensor must be at to work, while "Height" defines the altitude/depth the target must be at to be detected.

Also, see sonar thread for related discussion and possible transposed values:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=112341&page=2

[Redwine]

Ok... i dont want to claim victory yet, but i think so i discovered the @#$$ problem.

1]
In SH III the sensor anglas was taked :

Zero degree UP
180 degree Down.

2]
MaxHeight and MinHeight goes from up to down, but it is from zero to 180, vertical axis.

3]
But in SH IV SD radar it seem to be :

Zero degree nose
180 degree back

zero to 180 is not the vertical axis here, is the horizontal axis.

4]
Then, if maxHeight and MinHeight goes from zero to 180 axis, it means this value is gong from nose to back.... :damn:

It is the horizontal axis !

5]
When we adjust MinHeight and MaxHeight, really we are adjusting MaxRange and MinRange... into the horizontal axis !



No... no... i not become crazy... :rotfl:

just adjust into file V1.2, in wich one we lost all radar contacts :

MaxHeight=25000
MinHeight=-25000

and you recover the contacts.... :rock:

Then.....

If this is true.... im not sure yet.

MaxRange and MinRange works as MaxHeight and MinHeight ????

SD still picking up ship contacts, but i think so it is due the settings , may be all settings are rotated 90 degrees.

When we adjust a value thinkig we do it into the vertical axis, really we are adjusting a value into the longitudinal axis !!! :damn:

Please it is abit confuse, good is some body can test.

Not sure if this is the problem, but i recover the contacts and it is the only logical explanation i can reach for this behaviour.

.

[Redwine]

Well here the settings i arrive up to the present time...

http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/1221/20070420180318zt4.jpg


http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/5019/20070420180330zi2.jpg





Already Done File Here :

http://files.filefront.com/Sensors_sub_USzip/;7295145;/fileinfo.html





This settings works over a V1.2 file, if i dont made the mistake to mix files !!

But SD still picking up ship contacts.

It is a step forward, almost we have the file for V1.2 working another time, but still with the same problem than in V1.1.

But give us the chance to use the file for the correct version... !

Sadly SD still catching ship contacts, i am not sure at all of this...

At first, in real life is a SD can pick up a smal plane flying at 30m.... why it cant pick up a masive steel bridge of 65m of a Battleship ?

Did SD in real life avoid a ship eco ?



Interesting....

I attempt to change the value :

MinSensorHeight=0,2

to a value like 100.... and all air contacts lossed.


Up to this present moment, a theory i have, is may be, only may be, the tweak file we are using do not adress the correct settings...

Please, do not ofense Mraah !!! is only a posibility.

The second posibility is the Dev Team put the zero infront, instead up, as in sonars, and do not chage the names for the entries...

May be i am saying stupidity, i need help guys testing these settings and need other opinions :up::up::up:

[akdavis]

At first, in real life is a SD can pick up a smal plane flying at 30m.... why it cant pick up a masive steel bridge of 65m of a Battleship ?

Did SD in real life avoid a ship eco ?

The performance statistics were posted earlier in the thread:



PERFORMANCE
Maximum reliable range.

Target......................................Range in Mile
Land 3,000 feet or higher.............35
Land 1,000 feet..........................20
Large planes above 1,000 feet.......12-20
Small planes above 1,000 feet.......8-15
Low planes.................................Not detected

Due to the fact that low flying planes will usually not be detected, lookouts must
be alert for aircraft flying at low elevations during daylight hours.


Minimum range.
The minimum range on aircraft is about 2,500 to 3,000 yards.


No surface contacts, no land contacts unless the elevation exceeds 1,000 ft. Note the minimum range. I suspect that if surface contacts were detected, it was likely within this minimum range. For the purposes of the game, surface contacts should not be returned by SD radar, especially since SD was range only, no bearing returned.

[Redwine]

The performance statistics were posted earlier in the thread:

[quote]

PERFORMANCE
Maximum reliable range.

Target......................................Range in Mile
Land 3,000 feet or higher.............35
Land 1,000 feet..........................20
Large planes above 1,000 feet.......12-20
Small planes above 1,000 feet.......8-15
Low planes.................................Not detected

Due to the fact that low flying planes will usually not be detected, lookouts must
be alert for aircraft flying at low elevations during daylight hours.

Many thanks AkDavis... :up::up::up: but your add not clarify my dude. :hmm: Sorry.
May be due to my bad english. :dead:

No surface contacts, no land contacts unless the elevation exceeds 1,000 ft.

1000ft at 20nm, but 2000 at 40nm.... or 500 at 10nm, 250 at 5nm....

Let me to expose my point.... with more precise numbers.

In example :

Large planes above 1,000 feet.......12-20

This is for the beam angle... at a determined altitude.

This is 37.020m range flying at 333m height.


With that data....

Then at minimun range... we can say 2500m

It will be 22.5 meters, about 74 feet.

And with that data, a masive 65 meters battleship, will enter the beam at 7226 meters.

At 7226 meters a battleship will put it mast top into the SD beam, it is about 3.9 nm, about 4 nm, and ....

Then...

Is there an eco....? I think so yes...

Then....

Are we right when i look for to completelly eliminate the surface contacts ?

I think so, at very near range, land and big ship must be present.
And small ship at shorter range of course.

At longer range we will not have surface contacts, but at range under 4 nm we must to have the bigger ships contacts.

Sorry if i cant explain better, my english is no good. :up:

May be i am wrong but i think so when a big ship or a mountain enter into the beam of the SD we must to have a peak...

[akdavis]

The land contact ranges may suggest a beam angle, but the large/small air contacts do not. A large air contact is detectable at a longer range simply because it has a larger surface area (or more accurately, a larger radar cross section).

[Redwine]

The land contact ranges may suggest a beam angle, but the large/small air contacts do not. A large air contact is detectable at a longer range simply because it has a larger surface area.
Completelly agree, but a battleship, or even a cruiser, or a land hill have a big surface....

Any way, we can live if the SD dont reach the exact real life behaviour, after all it is game, and cant be perfect.

My point is, may be... only may be, we must not to squeeze our brain attempting to "completelly" eliminate the surface contacts.

I think so.... we must be happy, with the file i posted above, with wich one, we can recover the radar contacts using the V1.2 file instead the V1.1 !!! :up:

[akdavis]

The land contact ranges may suggest a beam angle, but the large/small air contacts do not. A large air contact is detectable at a longer range simply because it has a larger surface area.
Completelly agree, but a battleship, or even a cruiser, or a land hill have a big surface....

Any way, we can live if the SD dont reach the exact real life behaviour, after all it is game, and cant be perfect.

My point is, may be... only may be, we must not to squeeze our brain attempting to "completelly" eliminate the surface contacts.

I think so.... we must be hapy, with the file above, we can recover the radar contacts using the V1.2 file instead the v1.1 !!! :up:

I think we do need to squeeze our brains because 1. SD radar did not return a bearing and would not be useful for plotting surface contacts and 2. if SD radar is returning surface contacts at the ranges it could detect aerial contacts, it will far, far outperform SJ radar.

Here are some other stats I found:
DESCRIPTION AND USES:Long-wave aircraft warning sets. SD-a, SD-1, and SD-2 are installed on submarines and give range only. SD-3, for small auxiliaries, supplies range and bearing. All sets are equipped with "A" scopes, and have provisions for IFF (identification) connections.

PERFORMANCE:SD-a, SD-1 and SD-2, with antenna at 40' above water, have a reliable maximum range of 15 miles on medium bombers at 10,000' altitude. SD-3, with antenna at 80 ft. has a reliable maximum range of 25 miles on a medium bomber at 10,000'. Range accuracy is ± 500 yards. Bearing accuracy of SD-3 is ± 10°.

I suspect this data might be closer to real performance. Also bear in mind that all these stats are likely for the later versions of SD radar.

Here is data on the later SV radar (do we even have that in-game?) for comparison to SD early/late that it superceded:

Description.-An 8 cm. aircraft warning radar for use on submarines to supersede the SD.
SV-1 has instantaneous automatic volume control, fast time constant. Also uses SS indicating unit.

Number of operators.-One

Weight installed.-3,400 lb.

Power suppIy. 6 kva, 115 volts, 60 cps, 1 phase.

Maximum reliable range. (miles):
Bombers, at 30,000 ft 7.5
Bombers, at 10,000 ft 10
Fighters, at 10,000 ft 12
Battleships 12.5
Cruisers 15
Destroyers 10
Submarines, surfaced 7.5

Resolution: Range (yd.) 5.7 Bearing (deg.) 5

Accuracy: SV SV-1 Range (yd.) +-(50+0.1%). 15+-1%. Bearing (deg.) +-2. 1/2.

Minimum range (yd.) 400. 400.

Indication and data output:
Range: SV uses SJ-1 indicator (5 inch A scope with 10, 30 mi. ranges). SV-1 uses SS range indicator (3 inch A scope 10, 30 mi. ranges).
Bearing: SV-1 uses SS bearing indicator (3 inch B scope with 4,000 yd. range).
P.P.I.: 5-inch scope. Provision for four radar repeaters.
Ranges: 4, 10, 40 miles on SV; 4, 10, 20, 80 miles on SV-1
Other: Provisions for IFF trigger and display.

Antenna specifications:
Total weight (lb.) 500 including pedestal but not torque tube.

Feed: Wave guide.

Reflector:
Type Slotted csc2 parabola.
Size 2 ft. high x 4 ft. wide.

H.P. beam width:
Horizontal - 5.5 degrees.
Vertical - 60 degrees.
Polarization - Horizontal.
Gain (db) - 30.
Scan - 360 degrees at 0 to 6 r.p.m. by motor. D-c motor control.

Transmitter specifications:

Frequency (Mc.) 3400-3700.
R-f Source - Magnetron.
R-f Lines - Wave guide.
Pulser type - Nonlinear coil.
R-f peak power (kw) - 500.
R-f average power - SV-0.2; SV-1-0.15.(kw).
Pulse rates (pps) - SV-300 +-5%; SV-1-300 +-5%.
Pulse length (micro sec) - 1.

[Ducimus]

Heres an alternate idea, totally outside the box. I can't claim sole credit for it, and i didnt get it to work, but maybe someone else can. Maybe someone else will catch something i missed.

SD radar is really nothing more then ACTIVE aircraft detection. Why not reverse it to PASSIVE like Sh3? Sh3 had passive plane detection in the form of RWR, and it bloody worked. It did exactly what we want it to do now. It's sensor type 4 if im not mistaken.

So really all you need to do (in theory), is redo the stats on SD, change the sensor type, then equip all JP planes with a MK1 airborne radar (6K max distance, whoopity do), change the "radar signals detected" line in the menu.txt, and presto chango. Plane detection with no surface contacts.

Onlyl one small problem. i coudlnt get it to work :roll: Maybe i screwed up somewhere, so if someone else wants to try.......

[akdavis]

Heres an alternate idea, totally outside the box. I can't claim sole credit for it, and i didnt get it to work, but maybe someone else can. Maybe someone else will catch something i missed.

SD radar is really nothing more then ACTIVE aircraft detection. Why not reverse it to PASSIVE like Sh3? Sh3 had passive plane detection in the form of RWR, and it bloody worked. It did exactly what we want it to do now. It's sensor type 4 if im not mistaken.

So really all you need to do (in theory), is redo the stats on SD, change the sensor type, then equip all JP planes with a MK1 airborne radar (6K max distance, whoopity do), change the "radar signals detected" line in the menu.txt, and presto chango. Plane detection with no surface contacts.

Onlyl one small problem. i coudlnt get it to work :roll: Maybe i screwed up somewhere, so if someone else wants to try.......

And then we have Jap planes that can see in the night (in fact, that is already a problem we don't need to exacerbate). :)

[Ducimus]

>>And then we have Jap planes that can see in the night (in fact, that is already a problem we don't need to exacerbate).

What planes at night? :88) Even if there are, 6KM max distance isnt squat. They can see farther then that. (or at least they did in in 1.1, in 1.2 i think their wearing blinders)

[akdavis]

>>And then we have Jap planes that can see in the night (in fact, that is already a problem we don't need to exacerbate).

What planes at night? :88) Even if there are, 6KM max distance isnt squat. They can see farther then that. (or at least they did in in 1.1, in 1.2 i think their wearing blinders)

Maybe they are gone now. People reported getting attacked at night before 1.2. Anyways, it is a brilliant idea, especially if it gets rid of bearing information.

[Redwine]

Night attack probability can be reduced from the AirStrike.cfg file.

Night Modifier=0.3 ;[>0] Modifier on strike probability at night

Any way... to have a pasive alert in the sub, the planes must to have an active radar emission ...correct ? :hmm:

Or just the game gives you the alert by its proximity disregarding if they have a radar mounted ?

[t0maz]

(...) then equip all JP planes with a MK1 airborne radar (6K max distance, whoopity do) (...)
like he said ;)

[Mraah]

So really all you need to do (in theory), is redo the stats on SD, change the sensor type, then equip all JP planes with a MK1 airborne radar (6K max distance, whoopity do), change the "radar signals detected" line in the menu.txt, and presto chango. Plane detection with no surface contacts.

Onlyl one small problem. i coudlnt get it to work :roll: Maybe i screwed up somewhere, so if someone else wants to try.......

Ducimus,

Try one quick test. Give the MK1 airborne radar a max range of at least 40,000 meters. You may have done this already but just checking. Perhaps the airborne radar needs to overlap the sub for it to trigger a warning. I know that in real life it's not the case but in the sim world it may need it. If not, check the data from SH3 and see what type and range they used on the allied aircraft for the metox to detect it.

[Ducimus]

I'lll try again sometime this weekend. Regardless of results ill post the test modlet i was using if others want to take a stab at it. I know from SH3, the only limitation on RWR that i know of, was it only detected radars that exist, before the RWR's entry date. Range on the radar being detected was irrelevant.

Honestly i strongly suspect that RWR sensor support was removed and/or replaced with something else in the game code and the functionatliy is no longer there. OR.. some hex editing on sub nodes may be neccessary. I honestly don't know but i suspect the problem is one or the other.

[Mraah]

Up to this present moment, a theory i have, is may be, only may be, the tweak file we are using do not adress the correct settings...

Please, do not ofense Mraah !!! is only a posibility.

No offense taken ;) . Ref's original tweakfile for use with v1.1 gave specific hex addresses that matched the search we are doing.

By the way, when you set MinHeight = -2500 were you able to detect aircraft while you were sumberged at periscope depth? :D

Update : Nevermind, I was thinking MinSensorHeight.

[Mraah]

I'lll try again sometime this weekend. Regardless of results ill post the test modlet i was using if others want to take a stab at it. I know from SH3, the only limitation on RWR that i know of, was it only detected radars that exist, before the RWR's entry date. Range on the radar being detected was irrelevant.

Honestly i strongly suspect that RWR sensor support was removed and/or replaced with something else in the game code and the functionatliy is no longer there. OR.. some hex editing on sub nodes may be neccessary. I honestly don't know but i suspect the problem is one or the other.

Agreed. Looks like something too deep to tweak at the moment.

Thanks for trying :D

[fullmetaledges]

I think this is more serious than it seems, since the patch addressed sd radar picking up ships and the result is an sd radar that doesn't pick up anything post patch. I think it shows the quality of work coming from the guys patching the game. Kind of like what originally came with the game, if it's not working then just take it out attitude.

[shad43]

OK...haha, Im completely lost here...sd picked up air and surface contacts in 1.1
sd dont work at all in 1.2?
(I've jsut started a new career and haven't played into 1.2 very far.)
there are a bunch of files floating around here which one do we want?
the latest from redwine? or should i just get the one that goes back to v1.1?

I iz jus a dum rednck an I cornfuzed!

At this point all I want is my basic sd functionality back, I dont care if it picks up surface contacts.

Anyways great work guys, Im sure you all will hash this all out at some point. :up:

[Jace11]

Hehe :) got it, my SD will now only pick up air contacts... whoopee!!!

More later... testing needed - was a simple fix though....

I had tested this change before, but must have picked a sub with SJ also so I thought my SD was picking up surface contact, now I tried it on a sub with only SD in my little test mission and neither the Yamato or tug are detected but the planes are!!!:D

[Redwine]

Up to this present moment, a theory i have, is may be, only may be, the tweak file we are using do not adress the correct settings...

Please, do not ofense Mraah !!! is only a posibility.
No offense taken ;) . Ref's original tweakfile for use with v1.1 gave specific hex addresses that matched the search we are doing.

I was refering to V1.2... the cnages we done seems to works as if the axis was rotated 90 degrees.


By the way, when you set MinHeight = -2500 were you able to detect aircraft while you were sumberged at periscope depth? :D

Update : Nevermind, I was thinking MinSensorHeight.

It seems to works from nose to stern instead up to down.... posibly for the reasons i explained in the previous page.

In the SH III sonars, zero is UP..... then max min height is moving up/down in the axis 0/180

But in this file, the radar has zero at nose, if the max min height is moving in the axis 0/180..... then it is movin nose/stern instead up/down.

If the tweak file is correct adressed, so sorry to propose the posibility... :up: no ofense please :up:, is only a posibility, and you confirm is not posible, then...

The next posibility is....

May be the Tem didnt change the name for this parameter, and when we think we are touching vertical, really we are touching horizontal...

Just a theory, it can explains why i reover the contacts when i increase the negative numbers

:up::up::up:

[Redwine]

there are a bunch of files floating around here which one do we want?
the latest from redwine? or should i just get the one that goes back to v1.1?

Well tht's your choice, but the file i posted into the previous page is made over the V1.2 file... may be better to ensure no problems at some campaign moment when upgrade equipment or some thing like that.

I iz jus a dum rednck an I cornfuzed!

Me too !!! :rotfl:stay tunning here and helping please.
With job, effort and time, we will solve it sure...

At this point all I want is my basic sd functionality back, I dont care if it picks up surface contacts.

Just download the file i posted in the previous page made on v1.2 or back to V1.1 file.... :up:

[Redwine]

Hehe :) got it, my SD will now only pick up air contacts... whoopee!!!

More later... testing needed - was a simple fix though....

I had tested this change before, but must have picked a sub with SJ also so I thought my SD was picking up surface contact, now I tried it on a sub with only SD in my little test mission and neither the Yamato or tug are detected but the planes are!!!:D

The important... i think so, is you are detecting the planes now with the correct V1.2 version file ! :up:

[Jace11]

Here it is...

1.2 + 90/270 fix +working SD fix + SD detects only planes

http://www.speedyshare.com/505199404.html

I recommend testing this new file in the "edit" mission I posted on the previous page using a Porpoise from 1945 which lacks the SJ radar. You're first hint of a surface contact should be when you spot Yamato steaming at you at 25 kts from bearing 313. Planes are from 0, 180, 270, 90 degrees in the mission and all are set at 500m altitude, the one from 270 arrives a bit late I noticed.

The fix for SD was simple...

Elevation!!!! Stopped it dipping below horizon while keeping the 90/270 fix for a full 360 sweep.

WARNING!!!! - low flying aircraft may not be detected. I have tested 100m and 50m and they can approach the SD undetected. 500m - the default altitiude for planes in the game - is detected however..

This variation with altitude may add to the realism as US subs with SD could not not detect very low flying planes... so don't be over-reliant on your new "fully functional" SD set..

[akdavis]

Here it is...

1.2 + 90/270 fix +working SD fix + SD detects only planes

http://www.speedyshare.com/505199404.html

I recommend testing this new file in the "edit" mission I posted on the previous page using a Porpoise from 1945 which lacks the SJ radar. You're first hint of a surface contact should be when you spot Yamato steaming at you at 25 kts from bearing 313. Planes are from 0, 180, 270, 90 degrees in the mission and all are set at 500m altitude, the one from 270 arrives a bit late I noticed.

The fix for SD was simple...

Elevation!!!! Stopped it dipping below horizon while keeping the 90/270 fix for a full 360 sweep.

WARNING!!!! - low flying aircraft may not be detected. I have tested 100m and 50m and they can approach the SD undetected. 500m - the default altitiude for planes in the game - is detected however..

This variation with altitude may add to the realism as US subs with SD could not not detect very low flying planes... so don't be over-reliant on your new "fully functional" SD set..

Sounds like a near perfect solution for the time being. Now we just need to get rid of the the bearing information! :)

So, with the fix in place, is there any practical difference between SD early and SD late. I know you tested with a '45 Porpoise, but I assume this has SD late. Have you tested SD early?

p.s. - Remind us where the file belongs. Thanks.

[Jace11]

not yet.. just late so far. differences in the sim file between early and late are range and surface area of target - with the later version having a longer range and able to detect smaller targets.. I need to test early I guess...

Will do that now..

BTW:

Install the file to...

C:\Program Files\Ubisoft\Silent Hunter 4 Wolves of the Pacific\Data\Library\USSubParts

[Jace11]

Early is fine too..

Smaller planes like the zero are detected but at a shorter range than the large patrolplanes/bombers just as before.

[Redwine]

Here it is...

1.2 + 90/270 fix +working SD fix + SD detects only planes

http://www.speedyshare.com/505199404.html

I recommend testing this new file in the "edit" mission I posted on the previous page using a Porpoise from 1945 which lacks the SJ radar. You're first hint of a surface contact should be when you spot Yamato steaming at you at 25 kts from bearing 313. Planes are from 0, 180, 270, 90 degrees in the mission and all are set at 500m altitude, the one from 270 arrives a bit late I noticed.

The fix for SD was simple...

Elevation!!!! Stopped it dipping below horizon while keeping the 90/270 fix for a full 360 sweep.

WARNING!!!! - low flying aircraft may not be detected. I have tested 100m and 50m and they can approach the SD undetected. 500m - the default altitiude for planes in the game - is detected however..

This variation with altitude may add to the realism as US subs with SD could not not detect very low flying planes... so don't be over-reliant on your new "fully functional" SD set..

Incredible !!

Job and effort always brings fruits ! :up:

[Redwine]

Here it is...

1.2 + 90/270 fix +working SD fix + SD detects only planes

http://www.speedyshare.com/505199404.html

I recommend testing this new file in the "edit" mission I posted on the previous page using a Porpoise from 1945 which lacks the SJ radar. You're first hint of a surface contact should be when you spot Yamato steaming at you at 25 kts from bearing 313. Planes are from 0, 180, 270, 90 degrees in the mission and all are set at 500m altitude, the one from 270 arrives a bit late I noticed.

The fix for SD was simple...

Elevation!!!! Stopped it dipping below horizon while keeping the 90/270 fix for a full 360 sweep.

WARNING!!!! - low flying aircraft may not be detected. I have tested 100m and 50m and they can approach the SD undetected. 500m - the default altitiude for planes in the game - is detected however..

This variation with altitude may add to the realism as US subs with SD could not not detect very low flying planes... so don't be over-reliant on your new "fully functional" SD set..


I still catching the ships contacts with this file :oops:

Into map and into SD PPI.... :oops:

Why ? :dead:

Plus "one search sweep" seems to not works...

[Jace11]

Yes I just noticed that in rough seas I am picking up ship contacts. In my test mission the sea was flat. Maybe the pitching of the submarine in a rough sea alters the elevation of the sensor..

So in flat seas I get only planes, and in rough seas I get both. :down:

[Redwine]

Yes I just noticed that in rough seas I am picking up ship contacts. In my test mission the sea was flat. Maybe the pitching of the submarine in a rough sea alters the elevation of the sensor..

So in flat seas I get only planes, and in rough seas I get both. :down:
Let me see... it may be because the antena has no giro stabilization modellated, may be in real life those old Sd antenas had not ?

The antena change its angles with the sub pitch up and down, but it must be covered by the minimun height.... wich seems to not works, if not, even when the sub pitch up or down, nothing under the minimun height must to be detected.

Any way, in calm seas i catch surface contacts....

[Ducimus]

I dunno if it well help, but i figured id mention my observations on the min height.

It's. REALLY, and i do mean, REALLY sensitive.

In testing, while i dont rember the exact figures, i think something like 8.4 produced sparatic contacts and 8.5 it ceased to work. It may have acutally been a smaller figure.

I seriously had this measurment down to tens of thousands of a fraction. For example 8.3535 or even 8.2525. I honestly gave up on fine tuning it because the measurment was so fractionally small, and yet it did seem to make a difference. Which i thought was really odd.

My best guess as to this behavior, the only thing that makes sense, is if the bottom of the radars geometic beam is not level with the horizon, but at a slight incline. An incline of just a couple degrees can make a HUGE difference when your talking a range of 40KM. My thought was if the geometric beam is inclined, then the min height is establishing itself off of that incline. Again, at 40KM out, that min height could be really far up in altitude.

heres what i mean: (not to scale)
http://www.ducimus.net/sh4/min_height.jpg

Also note that the radar sensor, is probably NOT in the same location on every sub. Assuuming the game takes this into account. If it does It could be X meters high on one sub, and be X+1 meters high on another. If this is the case I do not think there will be a universal fix for all subs.

Naturally, zeroing out the MinSensorHeight didn't yield any positive results that i could tell. Is there another variable at work here that is not represented in the tweak files?

As always, correct me if im wrong. I dont want to mislead anyone if i have it all messed up in my perception of it.

[Jace11]

I replaced the sensors file with the original bugged 1.2 version that came straight from the patch. The single sweep button didnt work then either... Is it definatly working after 1.2 with no tweaks in the sensors file???

Could try changing SD elevation from Min1 Max179 to Min2 max 178

[Redwine]

Also note that the radar sensor, is probably NOT in the same location on every sub. Assuuming the game takes this into account. If it does It could be X meters high on one sub, and be X+1 meters high on another. If this is the case I do not think there will be a universal fix for all subs.

If i not remember bad from SH III it was the position for the sensor, but must have not too much influence, few meters up or down in this case.

In example if you put an hydrophone at maxsensroheight -10, and give it angles 90-180 you will not pick up a surface contact by few meters.

But here the iportant, i think so are the angles, to have a 0-180 beam at zero meters or at 8 meters must not change too much the sensor range.


Naturally, zeroing out the MinSensorHeight didn't yield any positive results that i could tell. Is there another variable at work here that is not represented in the tweak files?

As always, correct me if im wrong. I dont want to mislead anyone if i have it all messed up in my perception of it.

I think similar... there is some entry wrong.

Changes made do not reflects the souposed/spected behavior... :hmm:



I replaced the sensors file with the original bugged 1.2 version that came straight from the patch. The single sweep button didnt work then either... Is it definatly working after 1.2 with no tweaks in the sensors file???

Could try changing SD elevation from Min1 Max179 to Min2 max 178

I tryed 1-179, 2-178.... nothing happen. :hmm:

[akdavis]

Here it is...

1.2 + 90/270 fix +working SD fix + SD detects only planes

http://www.speedyshare.com/505199404.html

I recommend testing this new file in the "edit" mission I posted on the previous page using a Porpoise from 1945 which lacks the SJ radar. You're first hint of a surface contact should be when you spot Yamato steaming at you at 25 kts from bearing 313. Planes are from 0, 180, 270, 90 degrees in the mission and all are set at 500m altitude, the one from 270 arrives a bit late I noticed.

The fix for SD was simple...

Elevation!!!! Stopped it dipping below horizon while keeping the 90/270 fix for a full 360 sweep.

WARNING!!!! - low flying aircraft may not be detected. I have tested 100m and 50m and they can approach the SD undetected. 500m - the default altitiude for planes in the game - is detected however..

This variation with altitude may add to the realism as US subs with SD could not not detect very low flying planes... so don't be over-reliant on your new "fully functional" SD set..


I still catching the ships contacts with this file :oops:

Into map and into SD PPI.... :oops:

Why ? :dead:

Plus "one search sweep" seems to not works... SD has no display. If the PPI is accessible, you have SJ radar installed (or maybe SV, I guess).

Problem is, SD radar incorrectly feeds contacts to the SJ A-scope and PPI display, so if you have both installed, you will see both types of contacts, but I do believe it is the SD detecting air and SJ detecting surface.

edit: that is unless something really changed with 1.2 and they gave SD access to the displays without SJ installed at all, which means they just took a problem and made it worse. I'll have to double check in a sub with SD only.

[Jace11]

Yup its best to test the SD without SJ...

[Redwine]

SD has no display. If the PPI is accessible, you have SJ radar installed (or maybe SV, I guess).

Problem is, SD radar incorrectly feeds contacts to the SJ A-scope and PPI display, so if you have both installed, you will see both types of contacts, but I do believe it is the SD detecting air and SJ detecting surface.

I was switching off the SJ before test. :hmm:

[Mraah]

Yup its best to test the SD without SJ...

Yes. I've noted that the SJ by itself (using 1941 SD with SJ values) the SJ and SJ-I will not pick up aircraft with it's current setting because MaxHeight is too low. They used 200 in v1.1 and it's down to 80 in v1.2 .

So far, I've tested a value of 500 for MaxHeight before it picks up a/c, however, this is based on MinHeight=6 (1.1 default). I'm guessing perhaps 255-300 before it detects a/c.

[Jace11]

I was switching off the SJ before test. :hmm:

Try picking an early sub that has no SJ and compare to what you saw before. It may change it may not, but at least then the SJ is definatley not being used..

Regards SJ and planes... yup min height is 80, but it will pick and track a plane at 50m on the PPI. I have tested this.

[Mraah]

Here it is...

1.2 + 90/270 fix +working SD fix + SD detects only planes

http://www.speedyshare.com/505199404.html

The fix for SD was simple...

Elevation!!!! Stopped it dipping below horizon while keeping the 90/270 fix for a full 360 sweep.

WARNING!!!! - low flying aircraft may not be detected. I have tested 100m and 50m and they can approach the SD undetected. 500m - the default altitiude for planes in the game - is detected however..

This variation with altitude may add to the realism as US subs with SD could not not detect very low flying planes... so don't be over-reliant on your new "fully functional" SD set..

Great work Jace !!!!

Might I suggest increasing the SURFACE value. I've tested this once to the extreme so far with this :

MinHeight=6
MaxHeight=2500
Surface=4500

The result .... detected H6K at 9000 meters, all other a/c NOT, ship's reduced (mostly full broadside detected within 12k)

I believe, using Ducimus' radar picture (which is very real world drawing by the way) since you raised the elevation off the ground that the SURFACE area being exposed is reduced for the ships because it is now "painting" the superstructure and the masts instead of the hull.

Suggestion (I'm going to test this too) : Slowly raised the Surface in 200 increments (starting with 200) without changing anything else. This is currently where I'm going to start my test (blue=changes from v1.2 default) :

PreciseRange = 40000 (initial test to verify if/when the aircraft appear)
MinHeight = 8.3 (Ducimus work)
MaxHeight = 1500 (500 above H8K altitude?)
Surface = 200
MinElevation = 1 (Jace work)
MaxElevation = 179 (Jace work)
ProbInsideArc= 0 (needs to be 100% for test)

Note :
I discovered in the folder (data/air) in the respective aircraft SIM file, each aircraft has a min_height value. Based on Jace's test, most a/c are at 500m, while low altitude a/c have an unknown height. The values for min_height in this file appear to be divided by 10. Here's some examples :

1. AFB_A6M2_Zero / min_height = 50 (500m??)
2. ALBS_G4M_Betty / min_height = 5 (50m ???)
3. ALBS_H6K / min_height = 50
4. ALBS_H8K / min_height = 100 (1000m ???)
5. ADB_D3A1_VAL / min_height = 50

So, If I'm right (I've been know to be wrong :down: ), we need to either give the G4M some altitude or lower MinHeight for the SD to read 5. I suggest the former and give the G4M a value of 50 for the TEST ONLY and then play with the numbers later during the final mod build of the SD.

[Jace11]

Ok, im kinda finished with this for now... All I wanted to do originally was fix the SD not working.

http://www.speedyshare.com/495206880.html

This is my *cough* final version of the sensors file unless anything else comes up.

I have increased the blind angle of the SD to 2.5 degrees to avoid ships getting caught in the beam in bad weather when the sub is pitching.

Offically the SD-1 and SD-2 sets could pick up a medium bomber at 10000 feet (3000m) at about 15-25 miles. I picked up a betty at this alt at 16nm. This is pretty irrelevent though as most planes in the campaign operate lower than this (I think at 500m) though some of the larger planes sometimes appear to be at high alt..

Low flying planes will sneak under it still.

The important thing is ridding the SD of ship contacts.

I tested in a porpoise without SJ.

Also I tested in heavy seas and heavy fog at night....

The reason I did this was if visibility is bad a ship will get closer to you unobserved. Therefore as it gets closer it could enter the SD beam before visual sighting, therefore you will get a radar contact..

I ran it in my test, and ended up crashing into the Yamato!! I never saw it on SD radar even though it was NIGHT, HEAVY FOG and I was PITCHING in heavy seas...

Thats good enough for me.. I can't guarentee you will never get ship contacts, or that something else is wrong, but someone will find out.

[Mraah]

Ok, im kinda finished with this for now... All I wanted to do originally was fix the SD not working.

http://www.speedyshare.com/495206880.html

This is my *cough* final version of the sensors file unless anything else comes up.

I have increased the blind angle of the SD to 2.5 degrees to avoid ships getting caught in the beam in bad weather when the sub is pitching.

Offically the SD-1 and SD-2 sets could pick up a medium bomber at 10000 feet (3000m) at about 15-25 miles. I picked up a betty at this alt at 16nm. This is pretty irrelevent though as most planes in the campaign operate lower than this (I think at 500m) though some of the larger planes sometimes appear to be at high alt..

Low flying planes will sneak under it still.

The important thing is ridding the SD of ship contacts.

I tested in a porpoise without SJ.

Also I tested in heavy seas and heavy fog at night....

The reason I did this was if visibility is bad a ship will get closer to you unobserved. Therefore as it gets closer it could enter the SD beam before visual sighting, therefore you will get a radar contact..

I ran it in my test, and ended up crashing into the Yamato!! I never saw it on SD radar even though it was NIGHT, HEAVY FOG and I was PITCHING in heavy seas...

Thats good enough for me.. I can't guarentee you will never get ship contacts, or that something else is wrong, but someone will find out.

Once again Ducimus comes through!! :up:
Thank you for your work! :D
I agree with you and sounds like this is the most realistic :ping: .

[Redwine]

I ran it in my test, and ended up crashing into the Yamato!! I never saw it on SD radar even though it was NIGHT, HEAVY FOG and I was PITCHING in heavy seas...

Thats good enough for me.. I can't guarentee you will never get ship contacts, or that something else is wrong, but someone will find out.

Sounds so good, i will try it right now... :up:

[Mraah]

THANK YOU EVERYONE , who contributed to a more realistic SD !!!!!!!

Handing out cold packs for the lumpy heads to :
Ducimus :up:
Redwine :up:
Jace11 :up:
letterboy1 :up:
Jungman :up:
akdavis :up:

Did I miss anybody???? Holler!

It was purely happenstance that I came across the original ElelvationMax problem and I appreciate the effort by everyone on this odd problem to figure out what in the wild-wild-world-of-sports was going on!!

Thanks again. Perhaps a new thread should be opened...
... [WIP] The Real SD/SJ ???? :damn: :damn: :damn: :damn: hmmm.

Rob

[shad43]

Great news and great work, thanks :up:

You should release this so skippers can find it, all the radar threads have made it tough
to find the best/right file. :D

[Jace11]

Its not perfect...

There are still problems.

[CaptainCox]

Well it will do me for tonight. Great WORK MAN! Will try it out 1st thing in the morn. Thing is, there is some peeps here that wont give up, and thats the spirit 100%, keep it up guys, there is only one way but many to find the right answer!

[Steeltrap]

Its not perfect...

There are still problems.

That's a suitable summation of the world!! The best you (or anyone) can hope to do is leave it a better place than you found it, and you've certainly done that!!

Would be good if there were a way to do this without minitweaker. I don't have it, and a crappy 56k modem makes large D/L difficult for me (the programme is quite big, I seem to recall).

Cheers

[letterboy1]

Thanks to all who are contributing to this work in progress. :up:

[Mraah]

Its not perfect...

There are still problems.

Not perfect is perfect :up:

As a former air defense radar operator and currently an air traffic controller I can tell you radar is very strange. Only trained operators can distiguish between garbage, birds, ships, aircraft, tractor trailers ... Nothing like watching 18 wheeler tractor trailers on a radar that's designed for aircraft !!!!

Here's a good Radar Tutorial link I found on the web, some parts are in German :

http://www.radartutorial.eu/index.en.html

Note:
Side by side comparison of Ducimus' drawing and a drawing of the isotropic radiation from above link :

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s300/raabmraah/Image3.jpg


http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s300/raabmraah/Image4.jpg

[Redwine]

Ok, im kinda finished with this for now... All I wanted to do originally was fix the SD not working.

http://www.speedyshare.com/495206880.html

This is my *cough* final version of the sensors file unless anything else comes up.

I have increased the blind angle of the SD to 2.5 degrees to avoid ships getting caught in the beam in bad weather when the sub is pitching.
Sorry Jace !

I erased all my campaign files, just started at 1941, picked up a Porpoise, upgrade an SD, i am sure i have nothing more related to radar only an SD.

Your file still catching ships, i live with this, and.... the bad, no detect planes when your sub is heading south, 090-270.

Have you the same problem or it is me :damn:

We are at start point...

[Mraah]

Sorry Jace !

I erase all my campaign files, just start at 1941, pick up a Porpoise, upgrade an SD, i am sure i have nothing more related to radar only an SD.

Your file still catching ships, i live with this, and.... the bad, no detect planes when your sub is heading south, 090-270.

Have you the same problem or it is me :damn:

Redwine,

I haven't tried it yet (working mid shift tonight .. need sleep). Reset the ElevationMax to 181 and have another shot. Appears ElevationMax might need to fall between 181-360 . Leave the ElevationMin at 2.5 .

[Jace11]

Hmmm... I give up..

In my test mission, everything works as advertised... mostly...

It is strange that things work one way in one mission and not in another..

Then I enter a campaign, and I get the same.. ships, not all the time, but sometimes...

TopCat reported this, you have reported this and now I see it. The problem is when you think you found a fix, you havent!!!!

Could it be time compression - realistic sensors should be on too maybe..

Could be anything..

[Redwine]

Redwine,

I haven't tried it yet (working mid shift tonight .. need sleep). Reset the ElevationMax to 181 and have another shot. Appears ElevationMax might need to fall between 181-360 . Leave the ElevationMin at 2.5 .

Yes, i note that, with min/max 0-360, the non contacts when pointin south seems to be fixed.
You have contacts disregarding your heading.

But i dont try a setting as 2.5 for min.

I will try.... sleep well !! :up:

[Redwine]

Hmmm... I give up..

In my test mission, everything works as advertised... mostly...

It is strange that things work one way in one mission and not in another..

Then I enter a campaign, and I get the same.. ships, not all the time, but sometimes...

TopCat reported this, you have reported this and now I see it. The problem is when you think you found a fix, you havent!!!!

Could it be time compression - realistic sensors should be on too maybe..

Could be anything..
I was happy with your announce, but sorry ... :hmm:

One reccomend, just take the job to start a new campaing every tes, anoying, but may be save files can bring problems.


I arrive to a point where all works fine, except by the SD still catching ships.

May bewe need to live with this issue...

Still on job...

[Redwine]

Well ... still testing and :


Some SJ radars had the same problem than the SD radar, not contacts when your sub heading point to south 090-270....

Check S-18, S-42 subs into stock missions as Battle of Fillipines

I will attempt to made same changes than into SD.... :88)

[kakemann]

Your testing is much appreciated!

[Mraah]

Well ... still testing and :


Some SJ radars had the same problem than the SD radar, not contacts when your sub heading point to south 090-270....

Check S-18, S-42 subs into stock missions as Battle of Fillipines

I will attempt to made same changes than into SD.... :88)

Before I left home I looked at Ducimus' file and I thought he covered all the SJ to read ElevationMax=181. Check your file, I know I've gotten lost in the tweak and overlooked a change now and again.

I had another intesting idea. From earlier tests I noted that when you increase MaxRange you also increase the distance that the contact appears. I'm thinking that the unknown angle that Ducimus can't find might actually be the Cotangent of MaxHeight divided by Maxrange. When I get home in 7 hr's I'll try the default SH4 v1.2 setting with a new Maxrange of 900,000 meters. Very interesting.:hmm:

[Redwine]

Well ... still testing and :


Some SJ radars had the same problem than the SD radar, not contacts when your sub heading point to south 090-270....

Check S-18, S-42 subs into stock missions as Battle of Fillipines

I will attempt to made same changes than into SD.... :88)
Before I left home I looked at Ducimus' file and I thought he covered all the SJ to read ElevationMax=181. Check your file, I know I've gotten lost in the tweak and overlooked a change now and again.

Yes i done, not 181, instead 360, almost for test.
I forgot in the fisrt tweaks of this topocs we change both SD and SJ.
I concentrate into SD and forget the SJ.

The question is ...why we need to pass beyond 180 ??


I had another intesting idea. From earlier tests I noted that when you increase MaxRange you also increase the distance that the contact appears. I'm thinking that the unknown angle that Ducimus can't find might actually be the Cotangent of MaxHeight divided by Maxrange. When I get home in 7 hr's I'll try the default SH4 v1.2 setting with a new Maxrange of 900,000 meters. Very interesting.:hmm:

Yes is strange, if the angles works correct, and the planes incoming at same altitude, increasing the range will no must to have effect, the min angle boundary must to let them into the shadow zone even when you increase the max range... :hmm:

[Jace11]

Node height affects it too. because the P-Class rides out the water so much, I lowered it by modding the surfaced depth in the sim file. That has affected radar reception. While other classes are fine, my P-class no longer picks up SD contacts at 2.5/177.5...

Changing some variables makes this process boat specific.

Thats why some of my tests were screwy. I still think raising the elevation to a cone is the best way to do it. I may need to move some sensor nodes on my boats though. I will test with early Gato from now on, as the P-Class node is too low after I lowered the boat.

[Redwine]

Node height affects it too. because the P-Class rides out the water so much, I lowered it by modding the surfaced depth in the sim file. That has affected radar reception. While other classes are fine, my P-class no longer picks up SD contacts at 2.5/177.5...

Try rising up 177.5 beyond 180, in example 181 or more... contacts come back sure.

[Ducimus]

I did a little testing of my own and as usual came up with nothing conclusive.

A couple observations:

ElevationMin =0
ElevationMax=360

I noticed alot of SH3 radars constructed simularly. Infact, id encourge anyone to examine SH3's radar's for a point of comparision since they're a known entity. Anyway, improving this to encompass all 360 degrees seems to eliminate any chance of a blind spot based on direction of travel and nothing else. I left my files at 359/181, to be safe, but if theres any harm in changing it to 0/360 im not seeing it.


Another thign i noticed was that after decreasing the MinSensorHeight from 0.2 to 0, a MinHeight change from 8.3 to 9 was still able to pick up aircraft on a Gato. If i remember correctly, before, 9M min height broke air contacts. Hence the 8.3 settings. Increasing it past 9, it no longer worked. I had a halfassed idea to try a minSensorheight of -0.2 and increasing the min height to 10, just to see if it would work. Probably would, but we'd be back to the same problem as before. But, its as if this sucker is acting as an umbrella, with the minSensorHeight being the very bottom edge of that umprella.


Changing SD to RWR.
Ive tried again, twice, two different ways. Not working.



At this point im ready to just reduce SD radar to a distance of like 10 meters so it no longer detects anything at all, and then increase SJ radar geomety so it picks up everything. Because at least then i could turn the bugger off when returning to port instead of getting spammed by all the contacts. With the SD radar behaving the way it is, and as so far being unable to find a solution to make it work as advertised, there really isnt much of a point in having it in the game in my opinion.

[shad43]

At this point im ready to just reduce SD radar to a distance of like 10 meters so it no longer detects anything at all, and then increase SJ radar geomety so it picks up everything. Because at least then i could turn the bugger off when returning to port instead of getting spammed by all the contacts. With the SD radar behaving the way it is, and as so far being unable to find a solution to make it work as advertised, there really isnt much of a point in having it in the game in my opinion.

I'll buy that :up:

[Ducimus]

Coming soon to a theater near you :roll:

The creation of said file is an admission of defeat i think.

[shad43]

Coming soon to a theater near you :roll:

The creation of said file is an admission of defeat i think.
hey you gave it a shot :up:

of course if you proceed with the evil SJ plan you might consider that SD upgrade
packs will need to go bye bye and SJ will need to be made available from the wars start. (but you know this of course)

All in all doing this may simplify the radars use enough that everyone will be happy.
Radar will be available to all boats, both scopes will work as expected, it can be turned off, it will only sweep when you tell it to...sounds good to me :D

Im not enough of a historical purist that defining the difference between the two radars matters, its enough that I could find suface targets for attacks and avoid getting bombed by aircraft.

[Ducimus]

of course if you proceed with the evil SJ plan you might consider that SD upgrade
packs will need to go bye bye and SJ will need to be made available from the wars start. (but you know this of course)

Already made SJ avialable at war start. SD packs don't need to go bye bye really. No reason you can't have both radars, its just that the SD radar wont detect anything. Doing it this way saves time and effort, and leaves the door open incase the SD radar does get fixed. In the event that it does, all i have to do is replace a single file, and not the multiple files it would take to remove the SD.

On a related note, in terms of gameplay, i acutally like it better this way. By just increasing the max height from 80 to 5000 (along with directional bearing tweaks), while the radar can detect everything, im theorizing that you'll detect aircraft at more varying ranges, which to me makes things more interesting. Gameplay wise, it might acutally be an improvement when you consider it makes getting in and out of port easier.


I have to say though, its a shame i couldnt get RWR working. THat would have been awesome. Because it woudlnt have detected ships (unless they have radar which they dont tell the end of the war), and you could have acutally created a seperate message notification in the menu.txt. IE, change "radar signals detected" to "SD contact!" Pity. Im also starting to pity those guys trying to make SH4 into another damn uboat game. They have so many little things to deal with to restore functionality from SH3, its not even funny. Some of which might not even be possible... RWR for instance if the funtionality ws replaced in the game code. Lots of luck to em. lol

[shad43]

Already made SJ avialable at war start. SD packs don't need to go bye bye really. No reason you can't have both radars, its just that the SD radar wont detect anything. Doing it this way saves time and effort, and leaves the door open incase the SD radar does get fixed. In the event that it does, all i have to do is replace a single file, and not the multiple files it would take to remove the SD.


Of course this works ^...but putting together a stand alone mod would be pretty easy.
It might be nice if there were no distinction between the types, just plain ole radar...by completely removing the sd it would make things a lot less confusing.
Could make the name displayable of sj to Radar and sj1 to Adv Radar, I know its alot of editing but its just a thought...would do it myself if I knew what to tweak in the sj to detect planes (might do it for myself anyway)

Just thinking outloud...:up:

[akdavis]

Already made SJ avialable at war start. SD packs don't need to go bye bye really. No reason you can't have both radars, its just that the SD radar wont detect anything. Doing it this way saves time and effort, and leaves the door open incase the SD radar does get fixed. In the event that it does, all i have to do is replace a single file, and not the multiple files it would take to remove the SD.


Of course this works ^...but putting together a stand alone mod would be pretty easy.
It might be nice if there were no distinction between the types, just plain ole radar...by completely removing the sd it would make things a lot less confusing.
Could make the name displayable of sj to Radar and sj1 to Adv Radar, I know its alot of editing but its just a thought...would do it myself if I knew what to tweak in the sj to detect planes (might do it for myself anyway)

Just thinking outloud...:up:

Well, on the output side, I don't think there was any distinction built into the engine. Contacts, map contacts, and the SJ radar displays all take in the radar data as if it is from one sensor. Thus we end up with a PPI radar display in 1942 that also shows aerial contacts in detail.

[shad43]

Already made SJ avialable at war start. SD packs don't need to go bye bye really. No reason you can't have both radars, its just that the SD radar wont detect anything. Doing it this way saves time and effort, and leaves the door open incase the SD radar does get fixed. In the event that it does, all i have to do is replace a single file, and not the multiple files it would take to remove the SD.

Of course this works ^...but putting together a stand alone mod would be pretty easy.
It might be nice if there were no distinction between the types, just plain ole radar...by completely removing the sd it would make things a lot less confusing.
Could make the name displayable of sj to Radar and sj1 to Adv Radar, I know its alot of editing but its just a thought...would do it myself if I knew what to tweak in the sj to detect planes (might do it for myself anyway)

Just thinking outloud...:up:
Well, on the output side, I don't think there was any distinction built into the engine. Contacts, map contacts, and the SJ radar displays all take in the radar data as if it is from one sensor. Thus we end up with a PPI radar display in 1942 that also shows aerial contacts in detail.
My thoughts exactly...so why even have sd? do this at least until the dev's fix it, if they ever do.

I've been messing with this, what a mess...it seems that you cant entirely remove the sd just render it useless, which I dont like...I may just return to the .sim file for v1.1 and call it good until a proper fix comes along.

[fullmetaledges]

hey guys if you do make a mod or if the devs fix it since I'm playing with no map updates, If I get an SD contact I need the text to say "SD radar contact" to let me know it's a plane instead of just radar contact.

[Ducimus]

hey guys if you do make a mod or if the devs fix it since I'm playing with no map updates, If I get an SD contact I need the text to say "SD radar contact" to let me know it's a plane instead of just radar contact.

Thats impossible to do without either:

A.) Getting rid of bearing feedback on SJ radar
or
b.) Getting SD radar to function as a radar warning detector and equiping all planes with a 6KM max radius radar.

The inheirant problem being both radars share the same informational feedback. The only way to seperate SD radar is to make it function differently from normal radar.

[kakemann]

Ducimus,

Du you have a copy of a finished tweaked file with only the SJ radar working? I have a previous file downloaded from this thread but it picks up contacts too musch. It's just annoying!

Thanks anyway!

[Redwine]

I did a little testing of my own and as usual came up with nothing conclusive.

A couple observations:

ElevationMin =0
ElevationMax=360
I noticed alot of SH3 radars constructed simularly. Infact, id encourge anyone to examine SH3's radar's for a point of comparision since they're a known entity. Anyway, improving this to encompass all 360 degrees seems to eliminate any chance of a blind spot based on direction of travel and nothing else. I left my files at 359/181, to be safe, but if theres any harm in changing it to 0/360 im not seeing it.
I did that initially, to be sure to catch contacts, but i was reducing it, later i test 0-181, and 359-181.

The only problem with 0-360 may be ... we will pick up subs. MinHeight must to avoid it, but nothing seems to works normally into this file.


Another thign i noticed was that after decreasing the MinSensorHeight from 0.2 to 0, a MinHeight change from 8.3 to 9 was still able to pick up aircraft on a Gato. If i remember correctly, before, 9M min height broke air contacts. Hence the 8.3 settings. Increasing it past 9, it no longer worked. I had a halfassed idea to try a minSensorheight of -0.2 and increasing the min height to 10, just to see if it would work. Probably would, but we'd be back to the same problem as before. But, its as if this sucker is acting as an umbrella, with the minSensorHeight being the very bottom edge of that umprella.
The way how reacts the game to this setting is really strnage. I will maintain you 8,3, i remember you wrote before at 8,4 you have not thusted contacts.


Changing SD to RWR.
Ive tried again, twice, two different ways. Not working.
I dont like too much the idea of mount radars on planes to ba abkle to have a RWR.


Here the last tweaked files status i am testing for if some body need it.

http://files.filefront.com/Radar_Fix_Satge_2zip/;7317347;/fileinfo.html

[joea]

This is one things that must be fixed by UBI if this is to retain the image of a sim. SH3 got get away without it cause radar on u-boats was not as important...but for the US boats it is vital !!! Mod workarounds will not do.

[ref]

Well here the settings i arrive up to the present time...

http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/1221/20070420180318zt4.jpg



Hi Red, I think the problem with the radar not picking aircraft could be much simpler then that, I haven't played SH4 much, but a very important value everyone seems to be ignoring is surface (minimum square meters surface the radar will pick up), most planes don't have a surface of 100 m2., have you tryed reducing this value?, the ranges couldn't be that wrong if the original was picking ships at the published values, and the only thing that changed from 1.1 to 1.2 is the minheight.

Ref

[Redwine]

Hi Red, I think the problem with the radar not picking aircraft could be much simpler then that, I haven't played SH4 much, but a very important value everyone seems to be ignoring is surface (minimum square meters surface the radar will pick up), most planes don't have a surface of 100 m2., have you tryed reducing this value?, the ranges couldn't be that wrong if the original was picking ships at the published values, and the only thing that changed from 1.1 to 1.2 is the minheight.

Ref

If not remember bad i tryed with lower values like 8, 10... but prior to discover the minheight beyond 180 brings back lossed contacts.

I will try a new time now.

The matter is it must not detect ships by angle, and it doesnt works, but if we can found a surface tweak will be good anyway. :up:

[Redwine]

Hi Red, I think the problem with the radar not picking aircraft could be much simpler then that, I haven't played SH4 much, but a very important value everyone seems to be ignoring is surface (minimum square meters surface the radar will pick up), most planes don't have a surface of 100 m2., have you tryed reducing this value?, the ranges couldn't be that wrong if the original was picking ships at the published values, and the only thing that changed from 1.1 to 1.2 is the minheight.

Ref
If not remember bad i tryed with lower values like 8, 10... but prior to discover the minheight beyond 180 brings back lossed contacts.

I will try a new time now.

The matter is it must not detect ships by angle, and it doesnt works, but if we can found a surface tweak will be good anyway. :up:


Tested a new time... with a value of 30 and the radar still picking up big ships.

Well... stll on job ! :up:

[Redwine]

Hi Red, I think the problem with the radar not picking aircraft could be much simpler then that, I haven't played SH4 much, but a very important value everyone seems to be ignoring is surface (minimum square meters surface the radar will pick up), most planes don't have a surface of 100 m2., have you tryed reducing this value?, the ranges couldn't be that wrong if the original was picking ships at the published values, and the only thing that changed from 1.1 to 1.2 is the minheight.

Ref
If not remember bad i tryed with lower values like 8, 10... but prior to discover the minheight beyond 180 brings back lossed contacts.

I will try a new time now.

The matter is it must not detect ships by angle, and it doesnt works, but if we can found a surface tweak will be good anyway. :up:

Tested a new time... with a value of 30 and the radar still picking up big ships.

Well... stll on job ! :up:

Tested with a value of 10 instead 100....

Ships, small and bigs, stiull detected by early SD.

Planes, issues appears, in example, some of them seems to be not detected.

The Probability of this early SD is 85% , may be this has some influence, but 3 sucesive waves of G4M Betty, H6K, and AM6 Zeros, was not detected and pop-up at sighth range.

I will back to 100 and test a new time.

Aparently, this value should be a minimun surface to detect, if you put there 100000 nothing must to appears into the radar, but nothing works as predictable in this files...

Aparently it must be useful into SJ to prevent them to detect samll contacts as planes or life boats, but not sure.

Here into SD we need a Max surface limit....

Stll testing. :up:

[Mraah]

Hi Red, I think the problem with the radar not picking aircraft could be much simpler then that, I haven't played SH4 much, but a very important value everyone seems to be ignoring is surface (minimum square meters surface the radar will pick up), most planes don't have a surface of 100 m2., have you tryed reducing this value?, the ranges couldn't be that wrong if the original was picking ships at the published values, and the only thing that changed from 1.1 to 1.2 is the minheight.

Ref
If not remember bad i tryed with lower values like 8, 10... but prior to discover the minheight beyond 180 brings back lossed contacts.

I will try a new time now.

The matter is it must not detect ships by angle, and it doesnt works, but if we can found a surface tweak will be good anyway.

Tested a new time... with a value of 30 and the radar still picking up big ships.

Well... stll on job !

Tested with a value of 10 instead 100....

Ships, small and bigs, stiull detected by early SD.

Planes, issues appears, in example, some of them seems to be not detected.

The Probability of this early SD is 85% , may be this has some influence, but 3 sucesive waves of G4M Betty, H6K, and AM6 Zeros, was not detected and pop-up at sighth range.

I will back to 100 and test a new time.

Aparently, this value should be a minimun surface to detect, if you put there 100000 nothing must to appears into the radar, but nothing works as predictable in this files...

Aparently it must be useful into SJ to prevent them to detect samll contacts as planes or life boats, but not sure.

Here into SD we need a Max surface limit....

Stll testing.


Hi Red, I think the problem with the radar not picking aircraft could be much simpler then that, I haven't played SH4 much, but a very important value everyone seems to be ignoring is surface (minimum square meters surface the radar will pick up), most planes don't have a surface of 100 m2., have you tryed reducing this value?, the ranges couldn't be that wrong if the original was picking ships at the published values, and the only thing that changed from 1.1 to 1.2 is the minheight.

Ref

Hiya RedWine and Ref,

I wondered what the actual surface area of A6M2 Zero was and I looked on the web and discovered this (to my amazement) ;
http://rwebs.net/avhistory/history/Zeke32.htm

EDIT NOTE (thanks Redwine!) .... divide my sqft by 10.75 below .... argh

1. Wing Surface Area = 232 sqft (70.71 m2) (21.58 m2)
2. Horizonal Tail Surface Area = 51.68 sqft (15.75 m2) (4.80 m2)
3. Fuselage Surface Area = 116 sqft ( 35.35 m2) (10.79 m2)... I couldn't find the surface area for the fuselage so I calculated it using the drawings and rounded down .. about half the wing area.
Total = 399.68 sqft (121.82 m2) (37.17 m2)... exposure of zeke directly above observer.

If you add in the frontal area of 58 sqft (17.67) (5.39 m2) ... again, my calculation based on drawing ... your total is 139.49 m2 (42.56 m2)

Using this calculation based on my TEST #1 below :

Zeke @ 500m altitude
1. Bottom Surface exposed = 2.88 m2
2. Front Surface exposed = 17.66 m2
Total = 20.54 m2 (1.91 m2)

Zeke @ 1000m altitude
1. Bottom Surface exposed = 5.76 m2
2. Front Surface exposed = 17.65 m2
Total = 23.41 m2 (2.17 m2)

EDIT NOTE (thanks Redwine!) .... divide my sqft by 10.75 above .... argh

Note how in the Aircraft CFG file for the A6M2 they have a Length and Width value (which is the same for G4M) of L=11.5 W=13.8 ... total 158.7 ... really close to what I calculated (139.49). I tried changing this to like 100x100 but appears it didn't change the detection result using a surface of 100. I might try this test again. I believe that it's actually using a polygon count or something instead of a basic box dimension "height x length" or "width x length" like from a flat source like the ship's dimensions or aircraft L x W. What you see is what ya got :o . I'm still lost ....

.... But ....

I've been playing with the Surface area value and I discovered it's not as simple as thinking a value of 100 means that it's won't detect anything below 100 m2. I think it's a "constant" that changes with range. If you increase range using a constant surface of 100 you also "push" the 100 trigger further out. Basically, you're pumping out more power (gain) and expecting a larger return of energy. Unfortunately, SH4 default values might not equal the result we want, ie set maxrange to real world range expecting real world detection.

I did some tests back in v1.1 with the SD with these results (the size of the A6M2 worked beautifully as a "base 100") ;

TEST #1
MaxRange = 55560
Surface = 100
Resultant Detection Range :
1. H8K / H6K @ 33,700 m +/- 500
2. G4M @ 26,500 m +/- 2000
3. Zero @ 21,100 m +/- 500

TEST # 2
MaxRange = 55560
Surface = 200
Resultant Detection Range :
1. H8k /H6K same as test #1
2. G4M same as test #1
3. Zero @ 14,600 +/- 300

TEST # 3
MaxRange = 111120
Surface = 100
Resultant Detection Range :
1. H8k /H6K same as test #1
2. G4M same as test #1
3. Zero @ 31,900 +/- 500

TEST # 4
MaxRange = 40000
Surface = 100
Resultant Detection Range :
1. H8k /H6K same as test #1
2. G4M same as test #1
3. Zero @ 14,600 +/- 300

As you can see, TEST #2 = TEST #4 , although max range was reduced about 15k. The larger aircraft aren't affect at all with a value of 100. I used a crazy value of 4500 in one test and only detected the H8K and H6K at about 9000 m.

Using the SD that Jace11 created along with Ducimus' modifications I believe we should increase the surface area to eliminate ship contacts since we've already have the coverage area pointing away from the horizon it's only exposing (my theory) the ship's superstructure and masts. However, increasing the surface will also decrease the range at which you detect the aircraft. It needs to be juggled (like Ducimus did in v1.1 :damn: ) but if you juggle too many values at one sitting you'll end up chasing your tail.

Before I embarked on my SD testing in v1.1 I asked myself these questions :

1. Is the SH4 sensor world flat? .... yes, I think so, even though visually it appears ships "grow" as they get closer (curvature of earth).

2. Are the sensor's dynamic? ... meaning, searching in a moving 3D world. Yes, Jace11 proved that with his "stormy sea" posting. :up:

3. Are the sensors seeing through the water? ... thus including the part of the ship below the ocean when it calculates surface area .... I'm still debating this one!

4. And the BIG question ... What is the detection routine order for radar? ... Again, still debating this but Ducimus posted that at PreciseRange it's automatic. If an object meets the Surface requirement then it's detected, otherwise within PreciseRange.

Anyway, sorry to run off into a lecture ... :doh: . Please take no offense ;) . I just got off a double mid-shift at work so I'm still wired from all the coffee!!! :rotfl:

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong!!! Or tell me to put the calculator away!!!

Picture example of my thought process ....
:damn: :hmm: :damn: :up: :damn: :down:

[Jace11]

You see, I can get the SD to pick up ONLY air contacts but only when the sea is flat and in a sterile single mission (done by raising the angle off the horizon).

I have a set up now that will still pick up surface contacts via SD, but not all the time...

I was also thinking...

How did weather affect radar performance...

I ask because you could reduce radar effectiveness via the sensors.cfg in the CFG folder to take into account bad wave conditions, therefore we could have SJ and SD working well in nice clear weather, but it a storm, make them nearly useless - or untrustworthy...

That could be realistic if the radar sets were inhibited by such things, otherwise, its just another workaround...

I may try later

[Redwine]

I will read your topic in detail Mraah.... but i note some thing...

into square meters enters 3.28 by 3.28 feet .... it is 10.75 square feet by each sqaure meter.

So in example...

2. Horizonal Tail Surface Area = 51.68 sqft (15.75 m2)

The correct value must be....

2. Horizonal Tail Surface Area = 51.68 sqft (4.8 m2)

please check it.... prior to spend more job and time. :up:

I will read your post now in detail.... :up:

[ref]

How did weather affect radar performance...

I ask because you could reduce radar effectiveness via the sensors.cfg in the CFG folder to take into account bad wave conditions, therefore we could have SJ and SD working well in nice clear weather, but it a storm, make them nearly useless - or untrustworthy...

That could be realistic if the radar sets were inhibited by such things, otherwise, its just another workaround...

I may try later

Rain should definetly affect radar, I'm not sure about waves, possibly should mask small targets.

Ref

[Mraah]

I will read your topic in detail Mraah.... but i note some thing...

into square meters enters 3.28 by 3.28 feet .... it is 10.75 square feet by each sqaure meter.

So in example...

2. Horizonal Tail Surface Area = 51.68 sqft (15.75 m2)

The correct value must be....

2. Horizonal Tail Surface Area = 51.68 sqft (4.8 m2)

please check it.... prior to spend more job and time. :up:

I will read your post now in detail.... :up:


Thanks Redwine ... too much coffee!!! Much apologies for thinking so stupid!

Refresh the thread, I made the edit changes in yellow.

[Mraah]

How did weather affect radar performance...

I ask because you could reduce radar effectiveness via the sensors.cfg in the CFG folder to take into account bad wave conditions, therefore we could have SJ and SD working well in nice clear weather, but it a storm, make them nearly useless - or untrustworthy...

That could be realistic if the radar sets were inhibited by such things, otherwise, its just another workaround...

I may try later

Rain should definetly affect radar, I'm not sure about waves, possibly should mask small targets.

Ref

Ref,

Sorry to doubt your 100m2 post.... I made the correction. What was I thinking (I blame the calculator... yeah, that's the ticket)

Here's something I pulled out of this book below. Shows how much you guys did a great job on the radar ... even with the holes, etc...

TECHNICAL AND MILITARY IMPERATIVES
A Radar History of World War II
pg. 473

VERTICAL LOBES PATTERNS
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s300/raabmraah/vertical-lobe.jpg

"Vertical Lobes patterns. If an antenna has it's beam pointed parallel to a conducting surface, such as ocean or very flat ground, and is located at a height H above it, the lower half of the pattern is reflected and interferes with the direct radiation, producing a pattern of vertical lobes. In the diagram the dashed curve represents the pattern in free space; the solid curves the first four lobes of the resulting radiation. The reader can easily image the confusion for an untrained observer when an aerial target approaching from the right disappears momentarily as it leaves the first lobe and proceeds to the second. The angle of the first lobe relative to the antenna axis (in radians) is approximately equal to the wavelength divided by four times the antenna height above the surface."

I don't know the SD wavelength but the SV is 8cm. You can calculate (I'm afraid to use my calculator now since I made a fool of myself :88) ) an angle, but remember, the lobe is FAT in the middle and POINTY on the end so probably add/subract about 5-10 degrees to the FAT part to get the lobe width at half the distance.

[Mraah]

How did weather affect radar performance...


Rain should definetly affect radar, I'm not sure about waves, possibly should mask small targets.

Ref

Rain probably does. From basic knowledge the atmosphere play's a bigtime role. From my experience as a controller I can tell you that small parts of my low altitude sectors have holes (altitude) due to mountains, however, on clear days, the hole is bigger because the beam (lobe) curves upward. On overcast days the hole is smaller (curves downward, reflect off moisture in clouds). On bad weather days, like thunderstorms etc, communications can be broken and unreadable but the targets vary ... I'll have radar on one guy near the weather and lose radar on someone else momentarily when logically I should see him. But I'm looking at secondary radar so it's really not affected as much as primary (what we're dealing with in SH4)

WWII radar ... I don't know. It was in it's infancy, so with that, they probably got saturated with return signals bouncing every which way. Ground clutter is another thing, hence you might read a minimum range on posted documents.

I'll see if I can find a chapter on rain in the book.

[Redwine]

One thing more...

What is SS into the tweak file... SV was airborne, but SS ?

Was for planes or ships ?

[Redwine]

Before I embarked on my SD testing in v1.1 I asked myself these questions :

1. Is the SH4 sensor world flat? .... yes, I think so, even though visually it appears ships "grow" as they get closer (curvature of earth).

I think so not... almost in SH III, the surface curvature was adjusted from some file i cant remember now, may be scene files...

3. Are the sensors seeing through the water? ... thus including the part of the ship below the ocean when it calculates surface area .... I'm still debating this one!

May be they can, but minheight setting (if it works fine) must to ensure this not happen.

Still on job .... :up:

[Mraah]

One thing more...

What is SS into the tweak file... SV was airborne, but SS ?

Was for planes or ships ?


The SV in the tweakfile is my guess.
The SS was in the orginal v1.1 tweakfile that Ref linked.
It was sensor #8. DropDownName=NSS_SS

I don't know what the SS could be. I can't find any WWII references to it.

Update : found the info
SS = An X Band (3cm) surface search radar installed on a few boats at war's end.
ST = A microwave surface search radar with it's antenna in the periscope. It used the SJ installation to give range, but the bearing information was a function of the periscope's pointing.

[Mraah]

I think so not... almost in SH III, the surface curvature was adjusted from some file i cant remember now, may be scene files...


Ok, cool.

We'll have to nickname you Columbus II for rediscovering the world is round !!!

:up: :up: :up:

[Mraah]

[quote=Jace11]How did weather affect radar performance...


Rain should definetly affect radar, I'm not sure about waves, possibly should mask small targets.

Ref

Update on rain. Looking at the SV and SJ polarization they used horizontal polarization. I know for ATC radar they use either linear or circular. I've never experienced horizontal but I think it's the same (linear horizontal). Basically you see EVRYTHING the radar picks up and the aircraft is masked like you said. Circular picks up strong signals only (like aircraft and ships, the bigger the better) while it removes the small rain returns.

To simulate this in SH4 I can only think that perhaps we need to allow CREW EFFICENCY to be TRUE (good operator can find and track a target better than a green horn) and adjust the weather effect so it basically see's almost nothing in bad weather ?????

Would be nice if they displayed pockets of cluttered "unknown" radar targets in groups from small to large. That would be awesome.

In summary, my opinion ;
rain = mask
waves = range degradation

Both together = useless peice of .....:damn:

[ref]

3. Are the sensors seeing through the water? ... thus including the part of the ship below the ocean when it calculates surface area .... I'm still debating this one!

May be they can, but minheight setting (if it works fine) must to ensure this not happen.

Still on job .... :up:




They definetly can, as RW said that's minheight parameter for, the same goes for the sonar, if you raise the maxheight you can pick flying objects.
To simplify things sensors in shx series don't use physics for it's calculations, that's why you can pick a ship on the sonar if it's behind a land mass.


Ref

[Jace11]

yeah that would be why the radars dip below the horizon - so you can see contacts beyond visual range. There are other things I've seen that suggest this.

[Mraah]

They definetly can, as RW said that's minheight parameter for, the same goes for the sonar, if you raise the maxheight you can pick flying objects.
To simplify things sensors in shx series don't use physics for it's calculations, that's why you can pick a ship on the sonar if it's behind a land mass.

Ref

That reminds me. While testing the SJ off Freemantle I observed from the radar positon, full sweep, that it was displaying a radar target behind terrain ... however, I was using Map Contacts ON and it didn't display that target on the map behind the terrain.

Have you observed this with radar as well and can I expect the same with the sonar? ie can hear it but not displayed. Possibly a feature for the sonar... reflected sound, probably not.

I think too much, when I should use the KISS principle, keep it simple stupid :88) .

[Redwine]

I think so not... almost in SH III, the surface curvature was adjusted from some file i cant remember now, may be scene files...

Ok, cool.

We'll have to nickname you Columbus II for rediscovering the world is round !!!

:up: :up: :up:

Was not Columbus... :p it was Eratostenes (284 B.C. - 192 B.C.), he stablished the earth circunference with 90km error only. :up:

[Mraah]

I think so not... almost in SH III, the surface curvature was adjusted from some file i cant remember now, may be scene files...

Ok, cool.

We'll have to nickname you Columbus II for rediscovering the world is round !!!

:up: :up: :up:

Was not Columbus... :p it was Eratostenes (284 B.C. - 192 B.C.), he stablished the earth circunference with 90km error only. :up:

Goes to show what I know !! :doh:

By the way, I found the SS radar (and the ST)

SS = An X Band (3cm) surface search radar installed on a few boats at war's end.
ST = A microwave surface search radar with it's antenna in the periscope. It used the SJ installation to give range, but the bearing information was a function of the periscope's pointing.

my previou post link ;
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=510754&postcount=175

[Redwine]

By the way, I found the SS radar (and the ST)

SS = An X Band (3cm) surface search radar installed on a few boats at war's end.

SS is a surface radar then...

ST = A microwave surface search radar with it's antenna in the periscope. It used the SJ installation to give range, but the bearing information was a function of the periscope's pointing.

That was... ! we have a "periscope Radar" entry into the file too !


May be you can fix the names info onto the tweak file for them ?
In example instead SV ???

SV air search
SS surface search
Periscope Radar Directional for range only

[Mraah]

That was... ! we have a "periscope Radar" entry into the file too !


May be you can fix the names info onto the tweak file for them ?
In example instead SV ???

SV air search
SS surface search
Periscope Radar Directional for range only

I changed mine. You can change your's too.
Open the Sensors_sub_US.txt file with NOTEPAD and scroll down to the DropDownName and change the name, save it.

[Redwine]

I changed mine. You can change your's too.
Open the Sensors_sub_US.txt file with NOTEPAD and scroll down to the DropDownName and change the name, save it.
Thats all ? going to do ... Many Thanks ! :up:

Edit :

I change for this :

periscop_radar Directional Rangefinder
NSS_SS Advanced Air Search
NSS_SV Advanced Surface Search

[fullmetaledges]

it would seem that there is a lot of missing cool stuff in sh4, such as periscope radar, stuff like that would really make sh4 stand out, i hope they implement it, unfortunatly all I can do is hope

[Beery]

So I'm confused - do we have a mod for the radar that works? Or not? If we do, which one is it?

If we have one that has issues but which works better than the stock SH4 one I'll happily settle for that.

[CaptainCox]

HAHA! I have also thought about asking "which one actually works" here :p...to shy to ask but...

[jhelix70]

I'm temporarily satisfied by the solution used in Ducimus's FTT mod. Disable SD, make SJ detect both aircraft and ships, and make SJ available at the start of the war.

[Popov57]

Hallo,
I was very satisfied as well with this solution. Now with the exceptance of a GATO class boat my radar is gone. It is noted in the equipment list, however the pushbuttons are black. No radar anymore! What now? Help! Please!!!

[Hitman]

Yup since you don't have a proper SD radar display I guess the next best thing is to be able to see both ships and aircraft in the SJ display. I noticed it was like that when I first saw a "blip" closing in at huge speed :huh: first thing I thought was, admitingly, "BUG! RUSHING SHIPS!" :roll: but then I realized that FTT had done that. :up:

[Popov57]

Thanks Hitman but my problem is, that the equipment list tells me, there is functional
radar on board. However, nothing is working. All displays and switches are dead. But seems to me, there is a basic problem. Starting a new carrier for test purposes, same result. Looks to me, that the change from Sargo class to Gato did some basic change within the files.:damn:
I will deactivate all mods, check the result and if that works fine " mod it up" again. Who says, lonely evenings are boring???:up:

[jhelix70]

I'm in a porpoise class right now and the SJ radar is working fine...maybe yours is a special case because of other mods that have been installed.

[akdavis]

Yup since you don't have a proper SD radar display I guess the next best thing is to be able to see both ships and aircraft in the SJ display. I noticed it was like that when I first saw a "blip" closing in at huge speed :huh: first thing I thought was, admitingly, "BUG! RUSHING SHIPS!" :roll: but then I realized that FTT had done that. :up:

You have been able to see air contacts on the SJ displays (both of them) all along. Easy to see in the training mission.

[Mraah]

So I'm confused - do we have a mod for the radar that works? Or not? If we do, which one is it?

If we have one that has issues but which works better than the stock SH4 one I'll happily settle for that.


Regarding the original problem of no contacts when the sub is heading on a southern course is solved ... Ducimus FTT, minelevation=0,maxelevation=360.

Regarding the next problem... SD not detecting aircraft, no current mod to fix. We're stuck with either having the SD detect everything (v1.1) or nothing at all (v1.2). Ducimus turned his SD off to prevent spamming.

I've been doing some extensive study on how to make it work, where it detects aircraft only ... no luck.

My results ...

1. MinHeight variable - apparently this value is being read the same as MinSensorHeight, ie... values above 9 minheight exceed the height of the sensor above the surface of the ocean, no contacts above 9. Even if we put an SD radar 200 meters above the ocean it won't matter, it still detect's everything.
2. MaxHeight variable - same as maxsensorheight, values below 6 work only if the sub submerges slightly. However, maxheight does work at detecting a/c if set above 100, but, you detect everything again. Between 0-80, ships only.
3. Surface variable - It's possible to "tone down" the contacts by applying an off the wall value of 4500+ , however, everthing is effected. I've tried to find hints in some files to possible fool the program into thinking a zero has a surface area of 4500 but to no avail, it's all in the polygons (my guess), One would have to build a zeke the size of an aircraft carrier to detect it at long range without detecting other ships.
4. Min/Maxelevation - still affects the boats compass heading. As a matter of fact, I tested it so much I was able to flip the original problem and have the boat lose contact's when heading north! I still don't know what the dev's had in mind for this data.

Conclusion ....

The SH4 (SH3?) world is truely 2D. You detect everything, or nothing at all, regardless of altitude. Ducimus attempted the "metox" idea with no luck. In SH3 we either detected radar signals or had a visual sighting on the aircraft. Hopefully the developers are slowly going to introduce an SD that detects aircraft only ... but who knows, we can only cross our fingers. At any rate, appears having an SD to detect aircraft only is, at the moment, beyond tweaking.

Rob

[BBwalk]

I came across this old thread while searching the forums for radar issues. It discusses "how to fix the radar so when you steer the boat to any southern heading (90-270) you don't lose radar contact. "

Was this fix ever resolved with a patch or incorporated into a megamod like TMO or FotRSU?

I find when playing FotRSU v1.8 contacts are sometimes reported visually before being picked up on radar (late 1942, early SJ, max range setting, full sweep, 1024x time compression).

[KaleunMarco]

I came across this old thread while searching the forums for radar issues. It discusses "how to fix the radar so when you steer the boat to any southern heading (90-270) you don't lose radar contact. "

Was this fix ever resolved with a patch or incorporated into a megamod like TMO or FotRSU?

May of 2007?
probably version 1.3.
my SWAG is that it was fixed in V1.5.
i have not experienced this while playing 1.5 with Uboat missions.

[BBwalk]

I did a quick comparison between the values in FotRSU, TMO and vanilla v1.5.

It seems SH4 vanilla still uses SJ radar elevation min/max 357.5/30 for both early and late variants.

For comparison, FotRSU and TMO values vary with FotRSU using elevation min/max 0/180 and TMO using 0/360 for SJ radar early/late variants.

https://i.imgur.com/ACHrzXo.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/zrGsLkq.jpeg