[REL] SH4 Japan Recognition Manual v3.1 UPDATED RELEASE!

[yllekm]

NEWS!

Hot fix Imperial and Metric versions 3.1 released!!!

Imperial changes:

· Fixed dimensions on Kongo, Yamato and Hiryu (thanks Krupp!)
· Fixed speed on Kongo and Yamato

Download v3.1 Imperial here: http://www.speedyshare.com/432939560.html

Metric changes:

· Fixed speed on Kongo and Yamato

Download v3.1 Metric here: http://www.speedyshare.com/434334349.html


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Here is the third, and drastically improved, version of my Japan Recognition Manual for SH4.

Note: You should get rid of any previous version as much of the data was wrong.

Changes in v3 include:

· Added Version History
· Improved the cover
· Replaced flag graphics
· Adjusted flag dimensions
· Created Metric version
· Added Length and Beam data
· Updated all data to match printed material (I used the US version recognition poster). I strongly suggest you get Krupp’s JP Ship Dimension Fix mod, which changes the in-game data to match the printed material and this manual – the original in-game data seems to be seriously flawed (especially mast heights where there were drastic differences).
· Assigned proper Class and Type to each vessel
· Regrouped/reordered some vessels
· Fixed a few silhouette graphics (wrong vessels shown)


Download v3 Imperial here: obsolete - get v3.1 (see above)

Download v3 Metric here: obsolete - get v3.1 (see above)

[Camaero]

Thanks dude!

[Jungman]

Very, very Nice! :yep: You made alot people happy. Keep up the work. Plenty more ships to go!:rock:

[Von Hinten]

Thanks for the update m8, good job. :up:

[yllekm]

A few additonal notes:

I should have mentioned/emphasized that the main reason you should get rid of previous versions of the manual and start using this new one is that the old data was taken from the in-game manual, which Krupp and others have demonstrated is wrong (like I said above, get his fix for this). I unfortunately didn't know this at the time I released the original manual.

I have also discovered a small, cosmetic bug in the merchant flags. I intended to resize these but forgot to do it - not a biggie but it will be fixed in the next version.

About the next version - I have started work on the American ships and will release a combined Japan/American manual next. As usual, no guarantee on when it will be done - that real life thing is ever present in my world. The other ships will follow, provided I can get reliable data. I would dearly like to get my hands on the printed recognition manual (or a scan thereof) from the Euro (UK?) Deluxe or limited Collector's versions, provided it has the other ships - I only have the Canadian version, which has nothing, not even the recogntion posters (Ubisoft, take note)!

I am now quite happy with the form and content of the manual but always welcome your suggestions for improvements or any word on bugs/errors.

I am hoping for a good tool (i.e. 3d model viewer) to be released so that I can generate my own silhouettes, creating additional viewing angles (the ones in the Ubisoft silhouettes currently used are 0, 45 and 90 degrees - I think at least one other, say 22.5 degrees would be very useful) and I would also like to add new kit-bashed or original ship models as the community develops them. I know there is a 3d viewer in development so am hopeful this will be a reality soon.

[Krupp]

Your new rec manual looks great:up:

Could you check these?

lengths:
Your rec manual (dev collector's edit manual)
Kongo: 721.8ft (225m/738ft)
Yamato: 721.8ft (263.2m/863.5ft)
Hiryu: 721.8ft (223.3m/732.6ft)

widths:
Yamato: 103.7ft (38.9m/127.6ft)
Hiryu: 103.7ft (21.3m/69.9ft)

mast heights:
Kongo: 137.8ft (43m/141.1ft)
Hiryu: 65.6ft (35.2m/115.5ft)

I was just wandering which ones are ok.

[yllekm]

Yep, these are porked - fixed in next version. Good catch. Thanks, Krupp.

I have added a few more that need to be fixed as well (inserted in bold)...

Your new rec manual looks great:up:

Could you check these?

speed:
Yamato: 27.0kts (27.5kts)
Kongo: 31.0kts (30.5kts)

lengths:
Your rec manual (dev collector's edit manual)
Kongo: 721.8ft (225m/738ft)
Yamato: 721.8ft (263.2m/863.5ft)
Hiryu: 721.8ft (223.3m/732.6ft)

widths:
Kongo: 103.7ft (31.7m/104.0ft)
Yamato: 103.7ft (38.9m/127.6ft)
Hiryu: 103.7ft (21.3m/69.9ft)

mast heights:
Kongo: 137.8ft (43m/141.1ft)
Yamato: 144.4ft (43.5m/142.7ft)
Hiryu: 65.6ft (35.2m/115.5ft)

draft:
Kongo: 30.8ft (9.8m/32.2ft)
Yamato: 32.8ft (10.9m/35.8ft)

Speed changes affect both Metric and Imperial versions. Dimension changes affect only Imperial version.

I was just wandering which ones are ok.

[Onkel Neal]

Let me know when it has been updated, thanks

Is there a way to mod the INGAME ID book with feet ??
Neal

[R48]

Is there a way to mod the INGAME ID book with feet ??

I sure hope so! That's just what I was thinking.

[Schultzy]

Thanks for your continued work on this mate! Gets beter and better. :)

[yllekm]

On my list of things to look at Neal.

Is there a way to mod the INGAME ID book with feet ??
Neal

[flintlock]

Thank you very much for sharing this. Good stuff indeed!

[AG124]

Any progress on the next version of the recognition manual (with Allied ships)?

Also:

...I only have the Canadian version, which has nothing, not even the recogntion posters (Ubisoft, take note)!

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=108371

[yllekm]

The Allied version may be a while. I think we might be missing a fair amount of accurate data as many of the Allied ships are not in the printed recognition manual and the in-game manual dimensions are suspect. I need to sort through this to confirm whether there is a data problem and if so, decide what to do about it.

BUT:

Since there will be a delay, I have decided to push a hot fix for dimensioning errors Krupp found on the Kongo, Yamato and Hiryu and speed errors I found on the Kongo and Yamato now, rather than waiting until the next major release.

See the first post in this thread for download links.

[BlackSpot]

Thanks for all the work you've put into the Jap manual. :up:

[Roads88]

Could you upload to someplace that dosn't require logging in.

[AG124]

I noticed one error - the Minesweeper is listed as a type 13 instead of the Sub Chaser. There is a type 13 subchaser (which is clearly the one included in SHIV), although there was also a type W13 Japanese Minesweeper in RL. However, the one in the game looks generic to me. (Both ships are given generic names in SHIV, but the Sub Chaser is definitely an actual type 13).

[Krupp]

I noticed one error - the Minesweeper is listed as a type 13 instead of the Sub Chaser. There is a type 13 subchaser (which is clearly the one included in SHIV), although there was also a type W13 Japanese Minesweeper in RL. However, the one in the game looks generic to me. (Both ships are given generic names in SHIV, but the Sub Chaser is definitely an actual type 13).

Minesweeper No.13 is correct in the manual (v3 Imperial), it is exactly the same ship that's in the developers printed manual (included in the collector's edition). Here's her data (she looks clearly different that the actual submarine chaser):

Class: No.13 Class
Type: Minesweeper
Tonnage: 511 tons
Speed: 20 knots
Length: 72.1m
Width: 7.6m
Height: 25.5m
Draft: 1.85

[AG124]

I think the dev team must have made a mistake then - the Minesweeper in the game does not look like the RL Type W13, and the Sub Chaser in the game is the RL Type CH13. Here are drawings of both Type 13 Sub Chasers and Minesweepers:

* Just to point out, in case someone hasn't noticed this; in RL there was both a Type 13 Sub Chaser and Type 13 Minesweeper. The in-game Sub Chaser is not given a name (although it appears to be a Type 13), and the in-game Minesweeper is indicated to be a Type 13 (although it does not really look like one to me).

Type 13 Sub Chaser:

http://warships.web4u.cz/japan/sp/img/rys-ch13.jpg

Type 13 Minesweeper:

http://warships.web4u.cz/japan/mnl/img/rys-w13.gif

These are the names from Names.cfg

MSNO13=Minesweeper
SCSubchaser=Subchaser

[down and out]

Type 13 as was

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/3070/type13rc7.jpg

Can you post an ingame shot of the MSN013 AG ?

[AG124]

@ Down and Out - No, my laptop won't run the game so I can't play it until I finally go home next week.:cry: But it looks like that is indeed a Type 13 - it must be a different variant than the one I posted. Or the picture I posted might be inaccurate.

I should note that the in-game Sub Chaser does appear to be a Type 13 (in its own category) though, despite the absence of any class name provided therein.

Anyway, here is the ID Image for the Minesweeper:

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/7619/nmsno13silfe5.png

[Scoochy]

Not feeling to good about the draft of the large composite freighter. Just shot a torp and a depth of 26 feet and it went right under amidships. Sea state was like glass.

[yllekm]

Scoochy, are you using Krupp's JP Ship Dimension Fix?

[yllekm]

I can't seem to find any Jap Sub Chaser that fits the data given for the generic Medium Sub Chaser in the game. It seems to be longer, wider and heavier than any of th CH types I have been able to find data on. It is not a CH-13 - the RL boat was shorter and didn't have the extra superstructure ahead of the bridge.

Is this the developer's fantasy composite?

[yllekm]

Could you upload to someplace that dosn't require logging in.

Roads88, as far as I know, Speedy Share does not require a login for files up to 24 MB in size. My manual is 1.12 MB so it shouldn't require a login to download.

[Scoochy]

Scoochy, are you using Krupp's JP Ship Dimension Fix?

Thought I was. Forgot to enable that one from JSGME. Lemme go try that aga in....:oops:

[Krupp]

Scoochy, are you using Krupp's JP Ship Dimension Fix?
Thought I was. Forgot to enable that one from JSGME. Lemme go try that aga in....:oops:
The draught values are still off, even they are correct ones for each ship. "It's in the game".

The Ship Dimension mod- the goal was to fix all values- doesen't manage to make use of the corrected draught values implemented in it. If I remember correctly, I had to use a depth of 9.5 meters ( 31.2 feet) to get a mag under her. Even with her correct draught value of 8.3 meters (27.2 feet), she doesen't swim in that depth. Basically, all the dimension are correct, ships just swim at different depths than the manual say. I haven't found a way to fix this. On the other side, ships rarely swim all the time in the same exact depth. Freighters especially. But I think this is not any intentionally added feature, because the values are constant. They seem to be plain wrong. The fact, that when we get the right distance to target (= right ship height), we don't have correct draughts. There is right amount of ship showing above the surface, but wrong below it.

I have abandoned the use of magnetics, and use contact exploders only. I call it "Forced simulation" :p US mags weren't that reliable anyway. Dimension mod gives you the correct ranges to targets, so using contacts give you better results that using mag's. Plus there is always a possibility, that the torp runs deeper than you set.

[Scoochy]

Ranges look much better post mod, I will agree with that. But this whole draft issue is really starting to bug me. 6 times now I have fired a mag at this Large Composite, and each time it slips right under the keel by 3-4 feet.

I think I am also going to have to go to contact only. Sad really. In a sim where numbers and info mean so much, and to mess it up so bad is beyond me. This forum will hopefully be the saving grace.

[Krupp]

6 times now I have fired a mag at this Large Composite, and each time it slips right under the keel by 3-4 feet.
Well, to be honest, if the magnetic exploders worked like they suppose to, they would've been explode in those cases. So that is not an draught issue, but something else.

[Scoochy]

Well, it led me to look into something.

Assuming that the mast heights are correct, we can use them as a scale of sorts for measuring other parts of the ship.

For Example:

I took 2 snapshots of a large composite freighter, one above the waterline, and one below. Same distance and marginal point of view difference.

Cutting the below the waterline part of the ship, and pasting it onto the above waterline shot gave me a total view of the ship, from the top of the mast, to the bottom of the keel.

Now, using the amst height as a ruler, I cut the picture into a strip from the top of the mast, to the bottom of the keel and reseized constraining proportions. The mast is approx. 120 feet tall, so I resized the image to 120cm in height.

Now I have a full ship image where 1cm = 1 foot. Using this, I can measure how many cm of the hull is below the waterline. In this case it cam to 21cm equaling a 21 foot draft.


Quite interesting I must say. So I ran to the same convoy I have been plaguing with my save game and set the torp to 21 feet and what do you know, popped it right on the bottom of the hull.

[Krupp]

Well, it led me to look into something.

Assuming that the mast heights are correct, we can use them as a scale of sorts for measuring other parts of the ship.

For Example:

I took 2 snapshots of a large composite freighter, one above the waterline, and one below. Same distance and marginal point of view difference.

Cutting the below the waterline part of the ship, and pasting it onto the above waterline shot gave me a total view of the ship, from the top of the mast, to the bottom of the keel.

Now, using the amst height as a ruler, I cut the picture into a strip from the top of the mast, to the bottom of the keel and reseized constraining proportions. The mast is approx. 120 feet tall, so I resized the image to 120cm in height.

Now I have a full ship image where 1cm = 1 foot. Using this, I can measure how many cm of the hull is below the waterline. In this case it cam to 21cm equaling a 21 foot draft.


Quite interesting I must say. So I ran to the same convoy I have been plaguing with my save game and set the torp to 21 feet and what do you know, popped it right on the bottom of the hull.
We kind of stole Yllekm's topic, but one more question: If you set the torpedo depth to 24-25 feet (+3-4 feet, like in your earlier post), does it make your mag's to go off?

[Scoochy]

23 and 24 deep runners went right under the keel, checked both settings, mag and contact. 22 feet deep made contact at the bottom. Either I have ALOT of dud mags and crazy variance with how deep they run, or something is wrong.

And we didn't totally take over the thread, it does talk about the draft.....

[AG124]

I can't seem to find any Jap Sub Chaser that fits the data given for the generic Medium Sub Chaser in the game. It seems to be longer, wider and heavier than any of th CH types I have been able to find data on. It is not a CH-13 - the RL boat was shorter and didn't have the extra superstructure ahead of the bridge.

Is this the developer's fantasy composite?

Yeah, it looks similar at first glance, but I guess it is not really exact. Probably just a generic one after all.

Roads88, as far as I know, Speedy Share does not require a login for files up to 24 MB in size. My manual is 1.12 MB so it shouldn't require a login to download.

If it helps, I didn't have to log in to download the file.:hmm:

[yllekm]

We kind of stole Yllekm's topic, but one more question: <snipped>

Nope - like Scoochy said, the draft dimensions are in my manual and I have been following this discussion about the frieghter draft problem with great interest. It's fine being discussed here.

I really should research more about the US torps (I have actually downloaded what I think is quite a good article (US Navy Tropedoes by Frederick J. Milford - originally published in The Submarine Review circa 1996-1997) but haven't gotten around to reading it yet) but I am curious about the US mag trigger. Does anyone know the maximum distance away from the object whose magentic field it is sensing that it should be able to detect?

Maybe part of the problem is that the mag trigger range in the SH4 torp model isn't large enough. Anyone know if this is moddable?

[Krupp]

We kind of stole Yllekm's topic, but one more question: <snipped>
Nope - like Scoochy said, the draft dimensions are in my manual and I have been following this discussion about the frieghter draft problem with great interest. It's fine being discussed here.

I really should research more about the US torps (I have actually downloaded what I think is quite a good article (US Navy Tropedoes by Frederick J. Milford - originally published in The Submarine Review circa 1996-1997) but haven't gotten around to reading it yet) but I am curious about the US mag trigger. Does anyone know the maximum distance away from the object whose magentic field it is sensing that it should be able to detect?

Maybe part of the problem is that the mag trigger range in the SH4 torp model isn't large enough. Anyone know if this is moddable?

There is a very promising mod under work about torpedoes. http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=113031

I have never looked in the torpedo files, so hard to tell, but the magnetic trigger range seems too small. Torpedoes running under big ships from 0.5 - few odd meters, should always go off. That is if you haven' ticked the torpedo dud box.

[Jungman]

Maybe part of the problem is that the mag trigger range in the SH4 torp model isn't large enough. Anyone know if this is moddable?

In the Torp sim file it is set for 5.5 whatever IIRC. I have found that Magnetic does NOT work, it behaves in game just like the Contact only setting.

As above noted, you set for Contact only and shoot at 24 feet the hull, both the Contact and Magnetic settings explode everytime (using no Dud option). Shoot torpedo just under the hull at 25 feet deep and BOTH settings miss every time.

You can still get an 'under hull explosion' causing major damage using the deep setting. The 3D damage will show the Bottom exploded damage for alot of force. A shot in the side shows a Side damage model and does less damage to the ship.

We should test alot of ships so the OP topic can have the real in game values off the 3D models as used in game?? Example Mogami draft is 4.4 meters = 14.4 feet in print manual. But in game it is around 24 feet deep!! Should this be placed into this cool Recon Manual?

[yllekm]

I started some testing on the Large Composite Freighter last night and was trying different values in the "magnetic detonation range" in the Torpedoes_US.sim file but didn't seem to be able to change the range within the game. Odd thing is that with the 27.2 ft. draft listed in the manual, if I ran torps under at 29 ft. I was getting a good "non-contact" burst right below the keel. Run under at 27 ft. and I was getting more of a side hit (i.e. contact burst). At 30 ft. I missed. This was in dead calm water with the ship stationary but loaded.

I want to play around some more with the "magnetic detonation range" setting but am beginning to worry that something is broken in the mags that only the developers can fix (or maybe I'm tweaking the wrong file or another file has to be tweaked besides Torpedoes_US.sim).

Once I have frustrated myself enough with this setting, I'll begin testing drafts of each ship in my manual.

I don't think I'll be able to do any more testing for a few days though - I have to go into hospital for a medical procedure tomorrow and must begin "preparing" today (It ain't pretty so I'll spare you the details). ;)

[Roads88]

Hi
I got your manual and it really looks nice. Further, I installed Krupp's ship lenght fix.

I tried using the methed used for figuring speed from Wernersobe's thread:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=112448

ie Ship lenght divided by number of seconds that ship crosses the TDC with boat at zero (0) knots. On the Hugh Liner the speed was all screwy.

I went back to the valuse used on the above link and hit it clean.

Do I need to use a differant formula?

Thanks

[yllekm]

Krupp would be better to ask - I'm more of a graphics guy. If he doesn't respond here, just pm him.

[messenger3]

hi everytime i try to download it i click the link and it takes me to some photographer portfolio with some newage music>>>>:o :o
wthell is that?pls help.:oops:

[yllekm]

The Speedy Share links work fine for me, but I have decided to mirror the manuals on my personal webspace.

You can get the v3.1 Imperial Manual here:

http://members.shaw.ca/elkabong/SH4_Japan_Recog_Manual_v3.1_IMP.pdf

And, you can get the v3.1 Metric Manual here:

http://members.shaw.ca/elkabong/SH4_Japan_Recog_Manual_v3.1_MET.pdf

I would prefer that you use the Speedy Share links (if you can) to minimize my webspace download traffic and so that I can track the number of downloads.

[kakemann]

Thanks for all your work!

I'll try this one now!

[yllekm]

I started some testing on the Large Composite Freighter last night and was trying different values in the "magnetic detonation range" in the Torpedoes_US.sim file but didn't seem to be able to change the range within the game. Odd thing is that with the 27.2 ft. draft listed in the manual, if I ran torps under at 29 ft. I was getting a good "non-contact" burst right below the keel. Run under at 27 ft. and I was getting more of a side hit (i.e. contact burst). At 30 ft. I missed. This was in dead calm water with the ship stationary but loaded.

I want to play around some more with the "magnetic detonation range" setting but am beginning to worry that something is broken in the mags that only the developers can fix (or maybe I'm tweaking the wrong file or another file has to be tweaked besides Torpedoes_US.sim).

Well, I think I found why I was unable to change the "magnetic detonation range" setting. In Nvdrifter's latest version of the Torpedo tweak Files (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=112951) there are now TWO "magnetic detonation range" settings. Change both and presto - increased detonation range.

So, if you are not happy about this range, grab the tweak files and the SH3 Minitweaker and mod the range to your taste. You can't increase it too much though - the explosion can happen too far away from the hull and create very little damage (even with the +25% torpedo damage mod). I managed to add 1 to each of the values and still get the hull.

----------------------------------------
EDIT:

D'oh! The blast radius can be modded, which would fix the problem of the magnetic detonator triggering too far away from the hull. Back to messing with the .sim file...
----------------------------------------

As a side note though, after reading the torpedo history article I mentioned above, the US mag detontators were very finicky and unreliable. Eventually the Navy discontinued using them and set all on contact detonators.

Interesting how the same thing is happening with SH4 users. Maybe the flakey mag implementation by the developers was intentional, and eerily true to history.

[Mast]

Thanks for the update! Dumb question here...where does this .pdf file go? :oops:

Mast

[yllekm]

Thanks for the update! Dumb question here...where does this .pdf file go? :oops: Mast

It's a stand alone document. Put it where ever you like on your computer.

If you have Adobe Acrobat or Acrobat Reader installed, just double click on the file and it will open for you to view and/or print.

[Mast]

Ah...cool thanks!

Mast

[BrunoNZ]

Very usual manual. What I did was print it out on 4x6-inch photo paper from my ink jet - that way I got a group of nice cards that fit inside my plastic game box so I don't lose them :up:

[sqk7744]

Thank you!

Take a bow :up:

[MudMarine]

Some Please sticky this thread,

Ihave found others at different threads looking for this info. Very useful.

[Bono_LV]

Is there any mod that adds all this info to ingame recognition manual?

[ReallyDedPoet]

Just downloaded the Imperial Manual, anybody know where I can get a Metric One as well ?

I am late coming to this thread, just getting into Manual Targetting now :yep:

Great work here :up:


RDP

[yllekm]

Updated Speedyshare link for metric version of manual (old one had expired).

Both manuals are mirrored in my personal webspace - see links in posting above.

[merceg100]

I've hust tried to download this v3.1 manual but seems that download page has expired... is there any other link to download this, or is there any other manual more precise than this one?