i really hate the Manual TDC in Sh4

[gutted]

too wonky if you ask me, even without the bugs with the position keeper.

for instance.. why can't i manually enter ranges past 1150yds on the dial?

nooooo.. i have to look at a ship and pull out the stadimeter to manually set a certain range. booo!

sure.. i can hit my targets in SH4, but i prefer the TDC of SH3, where the gyro and AOB is updated with the scope. much more efficient when attacking convoys.

.ie
calculate the AOB at 0 degrees using the map tools. set scope to 0 degrees and enter the AOB. manually enter the convoys speed.. then point at a target.. range it and fire. point at another target.. range it and fire. or just simply swivel the scope to get a 0 gyro and fire as each ship passes the scope (range doesn't matter with a 0 gyro).

[clayton]

Glad things are working out for you in SH3. I'm also glad you pointed out the problems with SH4's TDC. I had no idea just how bad it really was... :up: (Big thumbs up for you)

*EDIT*
Your not a SH3 fanboy are you?

[CCIP]

Well, you can adjust ranges manually once you've entered it with the stadimeter.

Otherwise, I don't see why the complaint - how do you get the range anyway, without a stadimeter? (besides a sonar fix, but you can send that one to the TDC directly from there).

Personally, I don't see a 'problem'. I prefer SHIV's TDC to SHIII's any day of the week!

[flyingdane]

What are you guys crying for?..I use auto tdc and can't hit jack shi-. :damn:

[GreyOctober]

YASH4IBT! YAY! I thought this forum has been patched already! Requesting a new one STAT!

YASH4IBT=Yet Another SH4 Is Bugged Thread

[gutted]

Glad things are working out for you in SH3. I'm also glad you pointed out the problems with SH4's TDC. I had no idea just how bad it really was... :up: (Big thumbs up for you)

*EDIT*
Your not a SH3 fanboy are you?

wouldn't say a fanboy.. im honestly trying to get into this version. haven't touched SH3 in a long time. i'm just finding SH4 very difficult to like in its current form.

haven't read through too many of the threads here, so if im repeating stuff.. oh well.

[gutted]

Well, you can adjust ranges manually once you've entered it with the stadimeter.

Otherwise, I don't see why the complaint - how do you get the range anyway, without a stadimeter? (besides a sonar fix, but you can send that one to the TDC directly from there).

Personally, I don't see a 'problem'. I prefer SHIV's TDC to SHIII's any day of the week!

because im setting up a solution for a zero gyro like i used to do in SH3 without the buggy PK.

.ie after i plot the targets course on the map and have his speed, i set my scope to 0 degrees and input the range and AOB he would be at if he was at zero degrees. then i look at the gyro angle and adjust myscope by that amount and re-submit the range again to update my gyro to zero.

then simply fire a few torps at each ship of convoy as they pass my crosshairs. range to each ship from this point on shouldn't matter much with a zero gyro.

infact i used to target the first ship of each row in a convoy and have my torps hit them all at almost the exact same time in SH3 using that method.

as seen here:
http://jg52.com/gutted/sh3/Convoy.wmv

and visualized here:
http://jg52.com/gutted/sh3/Animation2.gif

[-Pv-]

It's still possible to hit several targets simal but using a different technique. Depending on the speed of the convoy decide how many ships you can target in one "salvo." Shoot the ship furthest away 1st when it crosses the 30 degree angle, then walk up the line to the ship crossing your zero angle. I typically hit three ships on a pass with that technique. It helps to be very close to them.

Different sims. Different technique. It all works out.
-Pv-

[Dilbert]

Personally, I don't see a 'problem'. I prefer SHIV's TDC to SHIII's any day of the week!

You`re kidding, right? So please tell me how do you attack multiple targets in a convoy without readjusting the TDC for every ship? In SH3 this was not necessary, as the TDC followed the periscope, one good firing solution was good enough for almost every ship in the convoy. In SH4 I have found no way to accomplish that. Don`t get me wrong, I like SH4 and the new aspects of the game. But the manual TDC is a pain for me.

[CCIP]

I've never had trouble attacking multiple ships, personally, the AoB is a quick adjustment, the speed stays, and the range needs a new fix anyway.

Also, mind you, I tend not to calculate solutions at all below 800m, especially when I have overlapping targets in convoys. I zero out speed and AoB, estimate a decent lead with my scope, click on the 'range' button to align the gyro angle to my scope, and fire away. In SHIII it was just a matter of aiming the scope but hey, here it sort of slows me down which is fine.

I personally don't see why the TDC should be super-efficient, either. If it makes me do work, fine. Doesn't frustrate me, I think it's part of the rush to get everything right.

[Camaero]

I've never had trouble attacking multiple ships, personally, the AoB is a quick adjustment, the speed stays, and the range needs a new fix anyway.

Also, mind you, I tend not to calculate solutions at all below 800m, especially when I have overlapping targets in convoys. I zero out speed and AoB, estimate a decent lead with my scope, click on the 'range' button to align the gyro angle to my scope, and fire away. In SHIII it was just a matter of aiming the scope but hey, here it sort of slows me down which is fine.

I personally don't see why the TDC should be super-efficient, either. If it makes me do work, fine. Doesn't frustrate me, I think it's part of the rush to get everything right.


This is very true. Nothing like working your ass off in a mad fury of clicks before the target steams off to a bad angle. It is quite exciting I think.

[sergbuto]

I've never had trouble attacking multiple ships, personally, the AoB is a quick adjustment, the speed stays, and the range needs a new fix anyway.

Also, mind you, I tend not to calculate solutions at all below 800m, especially when I have overlapping targets in convoys. I zero out speed and AoB, estimate a decent lead with my scope, click on the 'range' button to align the gyro angle to my scope, and fire away. In SHIII it was just a matter of aiming the scope but hey, here it sort of slows me down which is fine.

I personally don't see why the TDC should be super-efficient, either. If it makes me do work, fine. Doesn't frustrate me, I think it's part of the rush to get everything right.


This is very true. Nothing like working your ass off in a mad fury of clicks before the target steams off to a bad angle. It is quite exciting I think.

Try to set a torpedo attack and fire a torpedo in SH3 using the 3D interface (without arcade 2D pullouts in the periscope view) and see how "quick" and "not exciting" that is. The option which is not available in SH4.

[elanaiba]

The pullouts in the 3D screen are not meant to be a nod to the so called arcade players (can you call sh4 arcade? was sh1 arcade?). Rather, they would mimic the player/captain interacting with his crew while keeping his eye on the scope.

[Dilbert]

So how did they do it in reality when attacking a convoy? Fire a torpedo and then enter all the data again for the next target? That is quite inefficient in my opinion. Or was it possible to enter all the data for every tube? Does someone know of any descriptions on how the TDC really worked?
I don`t want features that were nonexistent in a real submarine, but I can't believe, that the TDC was that ineffective.

[joea]

So how did they do it in reality when attacking a convoy? Fire a torpedo and then enter all the data again for the next target? That is quite inefficient in my opinion. Or was it possible to enter all the data for every tube? Does someone know of any descriptions on how the TDC really worked?
I don`t want features that were nonexistent in a real submarine, but I can't believe, that the TDC was that ineffective.

Search the forum for "TDC" you will find links on how it really worked. While it was the most advanced TDC it was no modern point-click-kill system.

[sergbuto]

The pullouts in the 3D screen are not meant to be a nod to the so called arcade players (can you call sh4 arcade? was sh1 arcade?). Rather, they would mimic the player/captain interacting with his crew while keeping his eye on the scope.
Yes, I agree with reasoning for having it like this in SH4. Nevertheless, it just reminds me about pullouts or "all-in-one" screens the arcade games have. I would rather prefer to emphasize the commandor-crew communication in some other way, like having the numbers/readings entered in tabulated (named/titled) fields, as e.g. an equivalent of command "Mark", and then showing in a cornered inset a zoomed-in dial while it is getting set by the crew. All this can also be done in the periscope view and does not require more coding. But that's just me. :)

However, in addition to simulating the commandor-crew communication while setting up a torpedo run, the option of the player access to the 3D TDC interface is also needed. I fully understand that there were time constrains for SH4 development but after all TDC is a core of sub simulator and therefore important to be simulated in all the aspects, including 3D, especially when there was some coding done/ready for that in SH3.

And, no, SH4 can't be called arcade by any means. The Devs did a good job considering the time frame/constrains they had.

[Torpex752]

The TDC in SH1 worked as a TDC should from WWII. IMHO that should/could have been copied exactly and the TDC issues would never exist.

Frank
:cool:

[ParaB]

I would already be a happy skipper if the game wouldn't reset my torpedo settings from "fast", "contact detonator" to "slow", "magnetic" half a second before I press the launch button...

:nope:

[don1reed]

I've been playing the S-18 class of boat since receiving my copy, and, have been using, Frank's, no-TDC-method from SH1...and have been sinking ships regularly. In fact, a lot more regularly than did the original WWII "S" boat skippers.

I've yet to use the TDC, but look forward to it when my transfer comes in. We adapt, adjust, and improvise.

Cheers,

[AVGWarhawk]

So how did they do it in reality when attacking a convoy? Fire a torpedo and then enter all the data again for the next target? That is quite inefficient in my opinion. Or was it possible to enter all the data for every tube? Does someone know of any descriptions on how the TDC really worked?
I don`t want features that were nonexistent in a real submarine, but I can't believe, that the TDC was that ineffective.

In all reality, the Skippers concentrated on 2-3 ships to sink in a convoy situation. It is not like you are attempting to sink them all in 5 minutes time. You knock out 1 or 2, evade and run ahead of the convoy to do it again. So, letting the torps fly on 1 target and then getting solution on the next target you selected is not all that hard or hurried.

[Skubber]

Agree 100% with ParaB (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/member.php?u=217595)'s comment. Having the torpedo settings flip back to the default setting on you while you are in the midst of an attack run is rather annoying.

Other than that I do not have much to complain about.

Worth noting that I absolutely love the "mirror image" stadimeter.

[davejb]

I agree with AVG here, and it's quite funny in a way... the unrealistic tonnages sunk are something that many (most? some?) find a bit of an atmosphere dampener, yet here's a 'work quite hard to get a firing solution' method that ensures it's hard to get more than a couple of ships in one attack, and the complaint is that it's too hard to rapidly target multiple contacts.
(Please excuse any misunderstanding there, that's what it sounds like to me).

I've finally got myself to the point that I can actually hit about 50% of the time with manual targetting provided I put myself in a good position against unalerted targets. That seems quite reasonable to me, provided I understand that's rather better than I'd have got in a real boat in a real war (probably).

What I'd like to see here though is the settings on all the tubes to remain as set, and to be able to set each one differently - I don't know if this is realistic - but it annoys me that I can set a spread angle on one tube, and the same spread is applied to all tubes unless I change it. Individual tube settings would allow me to set up a spread during my 'getting ready to fire' period, rather than clicking like a deranged chimp once the first fish is away. The program deselecting speed and fusing is really silly and should be fixed too....in real life I'd be down the torpedo room with a gun at the chief's head 'explaining' that messing up my orders was a bad idea for the future.

[USS_shipmaster]

I have no problem with manual TDC with 1 condition : stadimeter -speed bug have to be fixed ASAP.:know:
Is there any news about 1.2 patch from devs?

[USS_shipmaster]

I have no problem with manual TDC with 1 condition : stadimeter -speed bug have to be fixed ASAP.:know:
Is there any news about 1.2 patch from devs?

[denny927]

I would already be a happy skipper if the game wouldn't reset my torpedo settings from "fast", "contact detonator" to "slow", "magnetic" half a second before I press the launch button...

:nope:

lol, as a good and happy skipper you have to prepare by yourself all of yours torpedos before attacking a ship/convoy....is very simple...q to open tube configure your settings and w to next tube....

but nevermind, is a 4 years post:-?

[Bubblehead1980]

Mods fix the stock bugs with the stadimeter, I can enter ranges manually with ease.US TDC is easier and in RL was superior.Enter the data hit the PK and if youre data was correct and target doesnt take off in another direction, its easy to hit the target or targets.I'll never get the complaints, think its more SH 3 guys not wanting to learn the new way which I can understand somehwat.

[PacificWolf]

too wonky if you ask me, even without the bugs with the position keeper.

for instance.. why can't i manually enter ranges past 1150yds on the dial?

nooooo.. i have to look at a ship and pull out the stadimeter to manually set a certain range. booo!

sure.. i can hit my targets in SH4, but i prefer the TDC of SH3, where the gyro and AOB is updated with the scope. much more efficient when attacking convoys.

.ie
calculate the AOB at 0 degrees using the map tools. set scope to 0 degrees and enter the AOB. manually enter the convoys speed.. then point at a target.. range it and fire. point at another target.. range it and fire. or just simply swivel the scope to get a 0 gyro and fire as each ship passes the scope (range doesn't matter with a 0 gyro).

If You prefer Sh3 TDC then play U-Boat mission.

[Joe S]

I only briefly scanned the comments here but I want to make a few points:
range is the least important element of the firing solution
You can , with a few exceptions, use an average mast height for each type of ship so you do not have to cycle through all the various tankers, destroyers, etc to find the exact one you are shooting at. I use 98ft for large tanker and medium tanker, 65 ' for small tanker, 98 ft for large freighter, 78' for medium freighter, 119 for heavy cruiser, 116 for light cruisers, 69 for destroyers., 164' for battleships. Hope this helps. Joe S

[USS Drum]

You all know this thread is 5 years old, right?

[Armistead]

You all know this thread is 5 years old, right?


Hehe, I wondered why all the complaints about issues longed fixed with mods, another old thread lives again.

[CapnScurvy]

Taking a look at the entry date of any post is a good thing before thinking "This guy really has something!!"

April 9, 2007

Wow, that was just about the time of the games first release. I've still got the original sales receipt of my copy April 12, 2007. The first 1.0 version of the game packaged within this release didn't even have the Imperial unit of measurements as an option. It was nothing but metric for the good 'ole U.S. of A. submariners! Patch 1.1 fixed that (which by the way, was released about the same time as the game itself), but the "bubble of our expectations" burst the more we played, the more we learned what this "new" sub simulation really gave us. We were inspired by the eye candy, but the "substance" was found far shorter than we had hoped.

One of the things that's being brought up (but at the time we didn't know about) was the stadimeter was reading in meters rather than feet as expected after the 1.1 patch. 1.1 gave us the Imperial option but the conversion of a meter into a yard for the stadimeter was not included. So we all scratched our heads as to why we couldn't seem to hit anything using manual targeting. That in itself started me into looking at the accuracy of the ship heights for the stock entries. The calculation correction of having the stadimeter reading of an Imperial measurement option in yards not meters didn't come along until the 1.3 patch. It was about then my "Ship Centered, Accuracy Fix" was released as a mod.

Dusting off these old posts brings back the memories of what we knew, or didn't know about the game as we played it. Other than that, there's little value in finding these long in the tooth posts. :O:

[gutted]

Holy necro thread batman!

LOOL

I actually grew to like the TDC in SH4 alot. It was just buggy at release.

edit: and yeah, this thread was made like 2 weeks after the game was released.

[I'm goin' down]

I am playing TMO 2.5. Right now I am using the Easy Aob mod, as OTC is not calibrated to work with 2.5, although one poster claims 2.5 and OTC work fine. Do I need SCAF? I did sink a Kongo at 4K yds, so the Easy Aob mod seems to work.

Hey gutted. Nice to see you are still alive.