[TEC] Observation about zones.cfg

[U-Bones]

I was mapping zones.cfg compartments by tagging items with unique Crit Floation values and made an interesting discovery....

It seems that a given sub will get ALL of its compartments criticalfloation values from a single piece of equipment in zones.cfg.

I have to leave for the weekend, and only had time to load and save 4 subs, but if someone else get curious... I am loading a sub, and immediately saving it, then looking at the ActiveUserPlayerUnits.upc file in the new save directory.


-- snip from zones.cfg --
;************************************************* ******
;UBoat Items
;************************************************* ******

[TowerWatch]
Multiplier=1.000000
Flotability=0.000000
HitPoints=200
Destructible=No
Armor Level=15
Critic Flotation=0.231001
Critical=No
FloodingTime=59.999996
CargoType=None

[PeriscopeAttack]
; this maps to the criticalfloatation=0.231002 of all S-class compartments
; this maps to the criticalfloatation=0.231002 of all Porpoise compartments
; this maps to the criticalfloatation=0.231002 of all Salmon compartments
Multiplier=1.000000
Flotability=0.000000
HitPoints=40
Destructible=No
Armor Level=13
Critic Flotation=0.231002
Critical=No
Father=31
FloodingTime=59.999996
CargoType=None

[PeriscopeObservation]
; this maps to the criticalfloatation=0.231003 of all Gato compartments
Multiplier=1.000000
Flotability=0.000000
HitPoints=40
Destructible=No
Armor Level=13
Critic Flotation=0.231003
Critical=No
FloodingTime=59.999996
CargoType=None
Father=31

[Redwine]

I cant understand well, may be my bad english, but please maintain informed us...

It sounds very interesting...

:up::up::up:

[Ducimus]

HOLY FLURKING SCNITT!

This might explain ALOT of things.

So if im reading you right, and if i remember what the critfloation does (which im not sure i do) since all compartments are mapped to a singular zone then if you Damage one zone, you damage all zones, or they all just share the one universal crit floation? Adjust the one, you adjust for the entire sub?


on question:
I was mapping zones.cfg compartments by tagging items with unique Crit Floation values

Can you explain how you came accross this discovery? I'd like to mess with it myself and see if i can't come up with an adhoc solution if this is indeed the problem.

[nvdrifter]

I'm not sure if I am understanding your post U-Bones. I do know that critical flotation is how much percent damage the compartment or equipment takes before flooding starts. From my understanding, each compartment has it's own critical flotation settings. Each piece of equipment's critical fotation is linked to the compartment it's located in. So are you saying that you discovered that all compartments critical flotations are dependent on a couple of pieces of sub equipment? And if this equipment is destroyed, then the compartments are destroyed in a chain reaction.. meaning the whole sub?

[akdavis]

Perhaps this would explain why may S-Class started an uncontrolled tailslide after only taking damage to the deck gun and decoy launcher? (however, no flooding or subsequent damage was ever indicated or displayed either).

[Ducimus]

So are you saying that you discovered that all compartments critical flotations are dependent on a couple of pieces of sub equipment? And if this equipment is destroyed, then the compartments are destroyed in a chain reaction.. meaning the whole sub?


That's what i think he means. And here's why i think this:

As an experiment (and its a damn good one too), mod your MK 14 torpedo's to have a 100% chance to run circular. Load up the torpedo practice sub school mission. Allow yourself to be hit. Then salvage your boat.. surface, whateer, and back it up to shallow waters. Then, make sure everythign is 100% repaired, and when you barely have enough water to cover the top of the conning tower allow yourself to submerge.

You'll notice two things:

1.) the damage compartment will have negative boyancy. And whichever area was damaged will be the first one to hit the bottom.

2.) All other compartments in the sub, even thoguh they are undamaged and at 100% tip top shape, will suddenly break and flood. Its like one big domino effect. Boat folds in like a crushed egg, even with only a couple feet of water on top of you.

[U-Bones]

I am using blackberry, pardon terse replies until Monday.

I wanted to figure out what compartment mapped to the deck watch so I tagged each piece of equip (not just compartments) with a diff value. I then saved a sub and looked in the save file. I was shocked that each compartment used the exact same value - and one not even from a compartment. I repeated with 3 more subs and ran out of time.

All I am saying is that all compartments use a single value from zones.cfg for crit float. I was not drawing any conclusions so much as throwing out a million new questions... We are not in Kansas anymore Toto.

I now wonder how everything else is mapped.

As for odd damage, I do not think it is related - the saves I have looked at indicate undisplayed hull damage - it just unfortunately has weird ways of appearing to be heavy without flooding - no other compartments have to be showing unrepaired damage when this happens (of course sometimes it does). Damage Control has several bugs I think, but before we get a good handle on it mapping out the variables is neccessary.

Crit floatation is simply the damage percentage at which compartment flooding started in SH3 - I would hesitate to assume it does the same thing in SH4 until I look at a bunch of saves.

I will not be able to test more until Monday night, but I am pretty sure there is more to come now we know zones.cfg is being used in such an unconventional manner.

[shad43]

Hmmm, me thinks me smell a good fix on the horizon :up:

[U-Bones]

I got home early and had time to poke about a bit more.

I was somewhat wrong. It seems that a given sub is not locked down to the same setting all the time. I have seen Gar and Porpoise change and my current working theory is that every sub load randomly interacts with zones.cfg like this

1. Selects either the Attack or Obs periscope.

2. Get CriticalFloatation from Critic Floatation.

3. Set FloodingSpeed, formula is (1 / FloodingTime)

Interestingly, stock 1.1 had identical data in both periscopes, so they were not using the randomization potiential they build in.... OR the nasty alternative is that none of this is intended and everything is broken and that is the cause of all the spastic damage - but I do not think that is the case.

IF the engine is loading any other Sub data from zones.cfg, I do not think it is coming from the sub section ;)

So basically, I think that the fruit of this excercise is

1. We now know that each compartment no longer has its own flooding threshold or speed - it is set globally on the sub.

2. We now know how to set these global variables.

3. With two known sources for the data, we can introduce a little uncertainty here. Maybe one setting floods slowly at 33% damage, the other much faster at 66%.. or similar scenarios, you get the idea. You would not know which you get on a given patrol unless you peek in your save.

4. The extent of the random selection is yet to be determined - I will have to look at a lot more saves before I can absolutely say there are no other sections looked at besides periscopes (not so far that I have observed). My expectation is that it only looks at the two periscopes.

5. The criteria for the random selection is yet to be determined. I looked for and excluded two sub/type and general early/late patterns. All I have noticed is that it seems to randomise in short runs of 1 to 6. My expectation is that it is purely random in that it does not depend on anything user selectable.

6. A big question that this brings up is - how does this impact other vessels ? aircraft ? do they also use zones.cfg differently than they did in SH3 ? I know that I will not be using ships imported from SH3 until this is understood better... not like there is a shortage anyway.

7. Another question. Why was this hidden so weirdly ? Why didnt these two simply get placed into the new UPC files ? Time crunch ? Oversight ?

8. Starting values set by stock 1.1 zones.cfg are
CriticalFloation = 0.300000 (direct from Critic Floation)
FloodingSpeed = 0.016667 ( from 1 / FloodingTime which was 59.999996)

9. I am still assuming that Crit Floatation means what it did in SH3. I will test that tomrrow night.

This also explains why some of my early testing re flooding was so wacky - I was tweaking stuff that had no effect on the game.

Hope this all makes better sense now.

[FAdmiral]

Bump - This thread may just help fix some of the problems guys are
having with damage control....

JIM

[Redwine]

Wonderful... even when i cant understand very well.. it looks as a preludo of a great discover and new mod... :up:

Medal for U-Bones ! :up:

Make it sticky please !

[Ducimus]

:up:

[U-Bones]

I don't think this discovery has anything to do with damage issues, but I intend to come out with a Reduced Flooding mod that may help get a handle on the weird damage. Hopefully. I just want to check a couple more things.

I really don't think there is anything profound that will come out of this.

[Redwine]

I made some changes in my Zones.dfg, i rise up all flooding times to 3600, plus i changed the flotability values of the after torp room same as in forward one.

Plus i made my Obs. Periscope more hard to destroy, so if i loss the attack one, almost i have a chance to have another to back home, many times i suffer the destroy of both periscopes at same time due to the same depth charge.

[U-Bones]

I made some changes in my Zones.dfg, i rise up all flooding times to 3600, plus i changed the flotability values of the after torp room same as in forward one.

Plus i made my Obs. Periscope more hard to destroy, so if i loss the attack one, almost i have a chance to have another to back home, many times i suffer the destroy of both periscopes at same time due to the same depth charge.
Redwine I think I have not explained well.

I think there are ONLY 2 things that subs use in zones.cfg.
It reads Crit Floatation for every compartment from the periscope sections
It reads FloodingTime for every compartment from the periscope section.

No hitpoints are used
No Floatations are used
No Parent are used
No Armor are used.
etc

All these other things are now obtained from *.upc files, or hidden elsewhere.

zones.cfg may still be used by surface ships - no idea.

[Ducimus]

:hmm:

[Redwine]

I made some changes in my Zones.dfg, i rise up all flooding times to 3600, plus i changed the flotability values of the after torp room same as in forward one.

Plus i made my Obs. Periscope more hard to destroy, so if i loss the attack one, almost i have a chance to have another to back home, many times i suffer the destroy of both periscopes at same time due to the same depth charge.
Redwine I think I have not explained well.

I think there are ONLY 2 things that subs use in zones.cfg.
It reads Crit Floatation for every compartment from the periscope sections
It reads FloodingTime for every compartment from the periscope section.

No hitpoints are used
No Floatations are used
No Parent are used
No Armor are used.
etc

All these other things are now obtained from *.upc files, or hidden elsewhere.

zones.cfg may still be used by surface ships - no idea.

mmmh... there is something strange here...

I increased my hitpoint, at in example Obs periscope and it works... hitpoint, armor, flooding time seems to works... :hmm::hmm::hmm:

[U-Bones]

I made some changes in my Zones.dfg, i rise up all flooding times to 3600, plus i changed the flotability values of the after torp room same as in forward one.

Plus i made my Obs. Periscope more hard to destroy, so if i loss the attack one, almost i have a chance to have another to back home, many times i suffer the destroy of both periscopes at same time due to the same depth charge.
Redwine I think I have not explained well.

I think there are ONLY 2 things that subs use in zones.cfg.
It reads Crit Floatation for every compartment from the periscope sections
It reads FloodingTime for every compartment from the periscope section.

No hitpoints are used
No Floatations are used
No Parent are used
No Armor are used.
etc

All these other things are now obtained from *.upc files, or hidden elsewhere.

zones.cfg may still be used by surface ships - no idea.
mmmh... there is something strange here...

I increased my hitpoint, at in example Obs periscope and it works... hitpoint, armor, flooding time seems to works... :hmm::hmm::hmm:
Immediately after loading the sub, save the game and check your save file. You will find that sub hitpoints and compartment hitpoints and equipment hitpoints do NOT get values from zones.cfg. They come from upc.

I set each item in the Uboat section of zones.cfg to hitpoints=701 to 782 and looked for those values in quite a few saves and never saw them. A change to the upc file hitpoints show up in the save game. Floatation never appears in a save file, nor does Armor, etc.

zones.cfg is no longer what it appears to be.

[donut]

I have tried Redwine's changes to zones.cfg,& they make the game more playable.
Although they might not be the final fix, for realism sake,I will follow this thread,:rock: We are looking for a patch. It might be prudent to see what the Dev's put out. I am encouraged at your understanding of the *.upc files, Ubones. Sure hope you are on to something there.We all wish to understand ! Location: Treading Water:rotfl:

[U-Bones]

Here is a test I did.

It shows that crit floatation is not used as a trigger level for flooding. I really have no idea what it is now lol. Comments and ideas welcome.


NSS_porpoise.cfg
;===============
max depth set to 250m 820ft

nss_porpoise.zon
;==========
hull hp 600
Crash depth 100m 328 ft
Crash speed .002 (wanted VERY slow to watch flooding and damage)

zones.cfg
;================
; New Sub Section
;================

[PeriscopeAttack]
Critic Flotation=0.700000 ; 70% should start flooding ???
FloodingTime=100000 ; 10 * faster than the slowest setting

[PeriscopeObservation]
Critic Flotation=0.350000 ; 35% should start flooding 2 * as fast ????
FloodingTime=1000000 ; slowest possible leak .000001
;============


I loaded quick mission with porpoise. It hit and used settings from attack scope

Now here are some snips from several save files. There was other damage but I focus on stern and hull.

After DC hit at 325 ft - just above crash depth of 328
almost direct hit on stern -less than 1% damage on hull, but 51% on aft compartment.

[UserPlayerUnit 1]
ID=Porpoise
Evolution=Normal ;; no battlestations yet
Damage=0.001684 ;; this is hull damage in percentage

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 1]
ID=PorpoiseSternTorpedo
Hitpoints=200.000000
Efficiency=0.239914
Damage=0.518639
DamageHitpointsConsumed=103.727707
RemainingRepairTime=0000-00-00 00:07:18
FltDamage=0.000000
CriticalFlotation=0.700000 ; here is the crit floatation from attk peri in zones.cfg
FloodingLevel=0.020002
FloodingTime=0000-00-00 00:03:46
FloodingSpeed=0.000010 ;here is 10* faster than slowest possible of .000001

In spite of the crit floatation set at 70%, flooding was occuring at 51% damage. called battlestations, called for 200ft, and went flank. listened to CE call out falling depths...


@1649ft hit bottom. I think batteries stopped at 820ft ??? not sure exactly where.
damage repaired in stern - but still showing consumed hp ?
stern battery destroyed
bow battery undamaged but showing 0/100 ??
still pumping ??

[UserPlayerUnit 1]
ID=Porpoise
Evolution=Battle_Stations
Damage=0.223376

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 1]
ID=PorpoiseSternTorpedo
Hitpoints=200.000000
; compartment hp from data\submarines\nss_porpoise\nss_porpoise.upc
Efficiency=0.777898
Damage=0.000000
DamageHitpointsConsumed=71.068138
RemainingRepairTime=0000--88--70 23:57:17
FltDamage=0.000000
CriticalFlotation=0.700000
FloodingLevel=0.778191
FloodingTime=0000-00-00 00:00:52
FloodingSpeed=0.000010


one hour on bottom - barely crushing - damage clean 0 consumed - still pumping

[UserPlayerUnit 1]
ID=Porpoise
Evolution=Battle_Stations
Damage=0.223566

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 1]
ID=PorpoiseSternTorpedo
Hitpoints=200.000000
Efficiency=0.811866
Damage=0.000000
DamageHitpointsConsumed=0.000000
RemainingRepairTime=0000--88--70 23:57:17
FltDamage=0.000000
CriticalFlotation=0.700000
FloodingLevel=0.263615
FloodingTime=0000-00-00 00:00:00
FloodingSpeed=0.000010


two hours on bottom -
absolutely recovered stern except no batteries
blowing tanks does nothing - suspect because exceeded 820 max depth - inoperable sub
no increase in hull damage.

[UserPlayerUnit 1]
ID=Porpoise
Evolution=Battle_Stations
Damage=0.223566


[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 1]
ID=PorpoiseSternTorpedo
Hitpoints=200.000000
Efficiency=0.796697
Damage=0.000000
DamageHitpointsConsumed=0.000000
RemainingRepairTime=0000--88--70 23:57:17
FltDamage=0.000000
CriticalFlotation=0.700000
FloodingLevel=0.000000
FloodingTime=0000-00-00 00:00:00
FloodingSpeed=0.000010

OK this one is just to show another tag from a upc file.

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 3.EquipmentSlot 11.Equipment]
ID=ObsPeriscope
NameDisplayable=Observation Periscope
EquipmentInterval=1900-01-01, 1999-12-31
EquipmentSlotType=USPeriscope
ExternalLinkName3D=NULL
FunctionalType=EqFTypePeriscopeBody
Hitpoints=219.000000
;hp from data\upcdata\upcunitsdata\equipment.upc - not zones.cfg
EfficiencyHumanFactor=1.000000
EfficiencyMechanicFactor=1.000000
Efficiency=1.000000
Damage=0.000000 ; how did this get repaired - is red on board ????
DamageHitpointsConsumed=18.792816 ; must be repaired on surface
RemainingRepairTime=0000--88--70 23:56:30


Bottom line is I have absolutely no doubt that the sub load is
1. pick attack OR obs periscope
2. load crit float and floodingtime from selected periscope. lol

HP comes totally from upc, except for hull.

flooding can happen below crit flood. unless the number is capped under .7 Appears I was right to not assume it still means the same thing... :hmm: I have no idea what it means now...

Q: what if max depth is set to 3280ft ? would battery not turn off ? could you blow to surface from 900 ? I am not sure you can keep a heavy boat up.... no mater HOW SLOW you nerf flooding and hull crush damage.

So what is the depth that we should allow repair/pump on the bottom ? Could be interesting.

Also.... !!:rock:
I think I know how to stop the chain reaction of compartment to compartment flooding. Not sure what else it will effect.

equipment.upc
[Equipment 36]
ID=Bulkhead
NameDisplayable= Bulkhead
FunctionalType= EqFTypeBulkhead
EquipmentInterval= NULL, NULL
EquipmentSlotType=NULL ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;was;;;;;Wall <<=== !!!
ExternalLinkName3D= NULL
Hitpoints= 236

Comments and tests and feedback and questions please.

[U-Bones]

Further testing with crash speed .02 instead of .002
Batteries are weird. All this occured well above crash depth, so the max depth is not the issue.

At 25% in game with NO damage showing on either - only topside external damage. savegame shows NO damage to batteries (~320ft)

At 0% in game with NO damage showing on either - other compartment damage and flooding present. Savegame shows one destroyed and one at 10% - but hull is 100% and get circle of death 10 seconds after save. (~80ft).

It is REAL HARD to get a sub with even light hull damage to not sink. The deeper, the more pronounced and the faster you have to go. It is like hull damage and depth are now linked to floatibility. I see no mention of floatibility anywhere in saves...

I remember in SH1 I liked to stay near relatively shallow water to lay on the bottom and survive. I have a feeling I will again start looking for hunting areas with a comfortable bottom...

[tater]

^^^except every time I am on the bottom hoping to repair, the damage seems to accelerate (as if I'm getting collision damage sitting on the bottom).

tater

[U-Bones]

^^^except every time I am on the bottom hoping to repair, the damage seems to accelerate (as if I'm getting collision damage sitting on the bottom).

tater
Yeah but I imagine you did not have silly slow crash speeds like I did for this test.

Sad thing is - even if you do sit on the bottom at say 300ft, repair all your damage, and pump out all the water.... I dont believe you can get up in most cases because hull damage = weight.

I am afraid it is usually not the flooding that takes you to the bottom it is the invisible hull damage weight. I am hoping hard that this is not the case... I am still waiting for the right damage combo.

[tater]

I see to recal a pretty gentle bump, but when I started getting damage (I was in fairly shallow water), I went to the external cam, and the sub was bouncing.

[U-Bones]

Yeah, I have heard of bottom damage but I have not experienced it myself, at least that I could seperate from what was happening anyway.

I just figured out how to give youself the damage you want - load a nice calm opening scenario - surfaced, and save. Edit the saved file to have exactly the damage you want, then reload.

[Redwine]

There are some changes in this game, some settings are not same as in SH III.

In example, into SH III, the maximundepth into cfg files, is the maximun depth at wich the game's 3D engine modelates a unit, a ship or a sub. Under this value the ship or sub, disapears.

About the critical flotation, if i dont remember bad... it was the weight of the water wich cause negative buoyancy.
May be i am wrong... but 0.35 means 35% of water cause negative buoyancy...

And Bump ...!

[U-Bones]

There are some changes in this game, some settings are not same as in SH III.

In example, into SH III, the maximundepth into cfg files, is the maximun depth at wich the game's 3D engine modelates a unit, a ship or a sub. Under this value the ship or sub, disapears.

About the critical flotation, if i dont remember bad... it was the weight of the water wich cause negative buoyancy.
May be i am wrong... but 0.35 means 35% of water cause negative buoyancy...

And Bump ...!
My recollection of how SH3 zone.cfg varibles worked was

[CommandRoom]
Category=Command Room ; don't remember this one
Multiplier=1.100000 ; 10% chance to roll critical damage
Flotability=30 ; relative weight of water in this compartment
Hitpoints=200 ; HP
Destructible=No ; as far as I know this never worked
Armor Level=-1 ; -1 was "same as hull" higher +number is better
Critic Flotation=0.231007;0.25 ; % of damage before flooding
Critical=No ; as far as I know this had no effect
Effect1=#dc_bubbles, 30 ; damageeffect, percent damage to use it
FloodingTime=3601;120 ; relative speed of flooding
CargoType=None ; not aware it was ever used on subs

[Redwine]

Many Thanks !

I was confused by recall between Flotability and Critic Flotation...

The problem seem sto be the Bulkhead...

Just few minutes ago....

1]
I had taked damage into the after torpedo room, loss tow torp tubes and no pitch up effect, and was able to divve later.

2]
But i receive the we are taking damage with no visible damage at any place.

3]
With Bulkhead damage, even when you recive the alla damages repaired sir, or some thing similar, i dont remember well, and with no visible damage, if you dive, you sinks.

It may be real... but we need a message "hull so stressed sir, dive not reccomended..." intead an "all damage repaired sir"

About the hit points and armor... when i removed the -1 from all compartements and asign a random value... low as 5, it seems to be more easy to take damage...

Does it means the armor works in Zones.cfg ?

The same seems to happens almost for me with hit points, i increased the periscope hit points and periscope destruction droops down...

Still working and researching please.... and share your results. :up::up::up:

and Bump !

[U-Bones]

Many Thanks !

I was confused by recall between Flotability and Critic Flotation...

The problem seem sto be the Bulkhead...

Just few minutes ago....

1]
I had taked damage into the after torpedo room, loss tow torp tubes and no pitch up effect, and was able to divve later.

2]
But i receive the we are taking damage with no visible damage at any place.

3]
With Bulkhead damage, even when you recive the alla damages repaired sir, or some thing similar, i dont remember well, and with no visible damage, if you dive, you sinks.

It may be real... but we need a message "hull so stressed sir, dive not reccomended..." intead an "all damage repaired sir"

About the hit points and armor... when i removed the -1 from all compartements and asign a random value... low as 5, it seems to be more easy to take damage...

Does it means the armor works in Zones.cfg ?

The same seems to happens almost for me with hit points, i increased the periscope hit points and periscope destruction droops down...

Still working and researching please.... and share your results. :up::up::up:

and Bump !

Armor is not saved anywhere in the save files. So my suspicion is that it is simply using the armor value from the sub hull for -all- compartments and equipment. (I wish I knew where hull armor was set - i imagine it is in nss_*.zon but we don't know the offset.).

Look in your save files - you will see your hitpoints. If you put funny values in zones.cfg you will NOT see them show up in the save file. Tag the UPC hitpoints with funny values and they DO show up in the save files.

Compartments: data\submarines\nss_*\nss_*.upc
Equipment: data\UPCData\UPCUnitsData\Equipment.upc

[Captainrave]

I made some changes in my Zones.dfg, i rise up all flooding times to 3600, plus i changed the flotability values of the after torp room same as in forward one.

Plus i made my Obs. Periscope more hard to destroy, so if i loss the attack one, almost i have a chance to have another to back home, many times i suffer the destroy of both periscopes at same time due to the same depth charge.
Redwine I think I have not explained well.

I think there are ONLY 2 things that subs use in zones.cfg.
It reads Crit Floatation for every compartment from the periscope sections
It reads FloodingTime for every compartment from the periscope section.

No hitpoints are used
No Floatations are used
No Parent are used
No Armor are used.
etc

All these other things are now obtained from *.upc files, or hidden elsewhere.

zones.cfg may still be used by surface ships - no idea.

Explains why this file cant be used to make an invulnerable sub.

[U-Bones]

New test of 367ft crash depth. Porpoise in Quick Mission Photo Recon

Pseudo log
17:50 352ft Silent Running - f9 compartment has some flashing of lights.
18:00 353ft 1.5kt
18:10 353
18:12 353 occasional Flashing lights in F2 compartment.
18:15 353 no damage
18:17 353 Rig Red
18:20 353 Battle Stations & Damage Crew
18:25 353 Secure from Silent .050720 HULL Damage
18:51 353 Graphical leak in F2 - probably started earlier was using TC
18:51 353 Periscope Depth .229138 HULL Damage
18:54 054 .229138 HULL Damage
18:55 Surfaced - Charging
19:00 Crash Dive
19:01 157 Ahead Std Order 368 feet
19:02 295 Ahead Slow
19:05 350 3kts
19:07 364 flashing lights an sporadic leaks in F2
19:08 367 Silent Running
19:10 368 1.5kt .289664 HULL Damage
19:15 368 1.5kt .289664
19:25 368 1.5 .289664 Major flashing
19:45 369 1.5 .482148 HULL Damage
19:46 369 Taking Damage, Pressure Hull, Batteries --- HULL Damage @ 1.000000 - ouch - was this because i exceeded .499992 and flash flooded ?
19:46 369 Blow Ballast, Surface, Ahead Full
19:47 3-> Laundry list of broken components. No scew turns.
19:48 325 Diesel fuel gone.
19:48 325 Swirl of Death

This felt right. No 3rd party damage in the equation, just hull stressing. Fudge factor in place - starts to degrade hull above crush - it is not a switch. A quick visit to crush and pop back up would probably not effect hull. Hanging out there is risky. It IS a snowball effect

Creep speeds can hold depth if you are undamaged and not leaking. Even works with weak hull. Sub interior gives sufficient clues when you are too deep. Ignore at your own risk.

One hour just above crush - hull at 77% - normal trim and operations. At 77%, can take another 30 minutes at crush. But that is IT. When it fails it fails. Zero flooding until hull fails, minor graphical leaks only.. nothing in saves except hull damage.

Hull failure was catostrophic. Flooding time was not a factor.

I am pretty eager to play these settings vs a few scattered DC's.

Settings used:

NSS_Porpoise.cfg
;===============
max depth set to 250m 820ft (allows suicide dive)

NSS_Porpoise.zon
;==========
Hull HP 425 ; stock is 320?
Crash Depth 112m 367ft - US Navy figures (250 test x 1.5 = crash)
Crash Speed .025 - I am thinking maybe slightly slower (2x) would be perfect.

Zones.cfg
;================
; New Sub Section
;================

[PeriscopeAttack]
Critic Flotation=0.499992 ;;; use lower to see if capped at 50% ?
FloodingTime=200000 ; .000005 a tad faster than slowest

[PeriscopeObservation]
Critic Flotation=0.333333
FloodingTime=1000000 ; .000001 is slowest possible leak
;================

Save files show settings from attack scope were used.

Bulkhead types were set to NULL instead of Wall, but did not seem to be a factor in this scenario. When your hull hits 1.000000 its over. It just lets you play a couple more minutes ;)

Problems I am noticing...
Everything. Gets. Damaged.
Batteries. Always. Die. Hard.
Pumps are self sufficient.

[Redwine]

Wonderful Research ! :up:

[U-Bones]

Discussion moved to new thread, [TEC] Crash Speed
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=111500

It is no longer about zones.cfg

[akdavis]

^^^except every time I am on the bottom hoping to repair, the damage seems to accelerate (as if I'm getting collision damage sitting on the bottom).

tater
Yeah but I imagine you did not have silly slow crash speeds like I did for this test.

Sad thing is - even if you do sit on the bottom at say 300ft, repair all your damage, and pump out all the water.... I dont believe you can get up in most cases because hull damage = weight.

I am afraid it is usually not the flooding that takes you to the bottom it is the invisible hull damage weight. I am hoping hard that this is not the case... I am still waiting for the right damage combo.

I am certain this is the case. There have been several reported cases of subs only taking reported damage to external components, but immediately losing all "buoyancy" in one half of the sub. My own example is an S-class that took a hit from a string of 3 aircraft bombs shortly after submerging. The only damage reported or shown was to the decoy launcher and the deck gun. However, the sub entered an immediate rapid tailslide. The tailslide was arrested before the sub crushed, but she went very deep. At no point was more damage reported or shown. There was no flooding and no sign of progressive loss of buoyancy. I soon found that depth could be maintained indefinitely using the engines. This was because of the sub's extreme angle, which become greater with increasing depth (the sub nearly stood on tail at 350 ft.) The sub could cruise at periscope depth with the bow clear of the water.

It was as if, as you have said above, the sub's back half became instantly heavier, but with one exception: as soon as the sub was back on the surface, the tail stopped sinking and would not resume sinking unless the sub dove to anything below surfaced depth.

To repeat: bulkheads or flooding or reported hull damage were never involved. There were no additional damage reports beyond the initial reports of damage to decoys and deckgun. The part of the sub that took the hit from the bombs simply became "heavier."

[U-Bones]

Please see the testing in new thread, [TEC] Crash Speed
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=111500

It is no longer about zones.cfg - that file simply has little impact anymore and I would like this thread to die.

[U-Bones]

It seems that zones.cfg has new importance.

Changes in the 1.2 patch include several new zones, all in the uboat section. Flt = Fleet ???


> 198=FltDeckGunStern
> 199=FltTorpRmFront
> 200=FltTorpRmStern
> 201=FltEngineRoom
> 202=FltComRoom
> 203=FlakFore

> [FltComRoom]
> Category=Command Room
> Multiplier=1.0
> Flotability=18.0
> HitPoints=200
> Destructible=No
> Armor Level=-1
> Critic Flotation=0.25
> Critical=No
> Effect1=#dc_bubbles, 30
> FloodingTime=360

> [FltTorpRmFront]
> Multiplier=1.0
> Flotability=43.0
> HitPoints=200
> Destructible=No
> Armor Level=-1
> Critic Flotation=0.1
> Critical=No
> Effect1=#dc_bubbles, 30
> FloodingTime=860
> CargoType=None

> [FltTorpRmStern]
> Multiplier=1.0
> Flotability=18
> HitPoints=200
> Destructible=No
> Armor Level=-1
> Critic Flotation=0.1
> Critical=No
> Effect1=#dc_bubbles, 30
> FloodingTime=360
> CargoType=None

> [FltDeckGunStern]
> Multiplier=1.000000
> Flotability=0.000000
> HitPoints=200
> Destructible=No
> Armor Level=1
> Critic Flotation=0.300000
> Critical=No
> FloodingTime=59.999996
> CargoType=None

> [FlakFore]
> Multiplier=1.0
> Flotability=0.0
> HitPoints=200
> Destructible=No
> Armor Level=1
> Critic Flotation=0.300000
> Critical=No
> FloodingTime=59.999996
> CargoType=None

> [FltEngineRoom]
> Category=Engines Room
> Multiplier=1.0
> Flotability=43.0
> HitPoints=200
> Destructible=No
> Armor Level=-1
> Critic Flotation=0.15
> Critical=No
> Effect1=#dc_bubbles, 10
> Effect2=#Oil_trace, 20
> FloodingTime=860
> CargoType=None